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The purpose of the show is to provide a critical examination of society and culture through the intersectional lens of race, gender, and class, more specifically it seeks to provide a COUNTER-NARRATIVE. The Show encourages a reflective assessment and critique of unique standpoints and their potential contribution to popular discourse.
I need to know everything. Who in the what in the where I need everything. Trust me, I hear what you're saying, but I like this. Do what you telling me. I'm curious. George. I happen to Porsche five and a horse. I'm ready for war. I'm coming for froze to turn to a ghost. I need to know everything.
How do we make sure that the dollars which a nonprofit is getting gives the maximum bang for the buck? If I can add any of my expertise to do that, I think that was just my way of giving back to the community, and that's why I actually joined the board, and in turn, actually I ended up learning so many new things. I'm on the board, which is a great arts organization in Baltimore. I'm an engineer by trade, but in turn, I learned so much about art. So when you give back, you end up learning so much about something which maybe it's not your expertise. So it's a two way street, and that was my interest.
Thank you for that. Antoinette, same question to you, actually, I also want to ask, and I didn't ask the other two, but I want to ask you as well, how many boards are you on, and how did you come to be on those boards?
Well, good evening. Antoinette peel, I'm an independent contractor with a background in information technology, and actually was recruited for the three boards that I sit on. Well, two boards that I sit on, one I'm on by way of the neighborhood that I live in. So as community president, you're automatically on the Midtown board. So I sit on that board. The other two I was recruited for. And I've been on boards in the past where I was actually asked to be on it, largely because of my skills and experience and then major interest. And so because I am definitely an arts collector and interested in art, being on the board gives me some insight into how organizations are run and using my skills to further some of the work that these organizations do. I would also say one of the organizations I stood on the board for really didn't have a presence in the community, but does a lot behind the scenes. And so when I was recruited for that, it was a part of a diversity initiative. So that board was older and looking for younger, more diverse participants on the board. So I was asked by the one black female on the board to be a part of this board, and the other one was because I was actively engaged in a lot of the events that the organization had on a regular basis. It was my go to for arts and entertainment. And as a result of that, I was asked, How about she sit on our board? And that's how I got to be there. And similar to what Ajit said, once you get there, you start to learn a lot of things about now that I don't know business, I know business and I know systems, but when you're trying to push those two things together, interest in creative space as well as business, sometimes there's not the necessary perfect connection between those two things. And when you're there, you can help build that bridge. So that kind of makes it what makes me want to continue to do, because it's a different way of giving back when you don't even realize that's what you're doing. And I didn't seek out board work. I just kind of happened, Oh, welcome. I welcomed it. But I didn't say, oh, I need to go sit on a
few boards, right? It wasn't your go to, yeah,
it was divine that I got there, and now that I'm here, you can, you can take it away from me.
Well, one of the things that I'm hearing, and hearing from all three of you is that there's a component of like the organization is connected to a personal interest, like at least two of you mentioned the art. So I'm guessing that the boards that you're sitting on are connected to the arts. And then there's also this theme of like, making sure that you give back, can you speak to olita? Some of the things that you look for in joining a board? Like, what do you look for? What makes you say, Yes, I will join this board. Well, I'm
looking at, at one point, I should talk a little bit about one of the boards that I'm on. It happens not to be an art an art board, and it's focused on community. It's focused on developing community in a way that would, again, work alongside people who are in that community. Anyway, what I'm looking for a lot of times is that there's action that is really happening, and people are actually engaged, whether it's the board members. For the this, the people who are really running the programs, for the most part, if they're doing their job, then it's the to me, the organization is going to have a certain vitality, and so I am looking for that kind of vitality. I must admit, I wasn't prepared to be on two boards, and I wasn't sure I wanted to be on a board, but I think because of my experience in the in the arts, administrative aspect of of the community, it was very important, because I recognize that, that we're not we're not seeking out enough diversity, you know, for the boards, and that's been a concern always, and so it's really, really, really difficult sometimes to agree to do something if you're looking around at a board and The board is predominantly white. So I feel like that issue for me was, well, put your money where your mouth is and step forward.
Thank you for that. I just want to quickly say hello to the folks who are watching. Ty says, Hey, Auntie in my head. Antoinette, so he calls you his auntie in his head. And Aubrey, who's a teaching artist. And then Lauren Baker also says, Hello. And then there's a few people who are watching. Folks who are watching, feel free to share this out and type your questions below, and we'll see. We'll try to make sure that we get get to them. Um, I have the same question for you. Of course, a gene what is it? What is it that makes you say yes to actually being on the board? What do you look for in the board that you're going to join? And I want to say specifically to one of the things that Aletha brought up that I think is a really good point, what makes you willing to join a board if you are like the only person there of color or the only person there with your particular background? Sure.
Thank you for asking that question. Couple of things. I would say, You know what? What do I look for? One thing is, of course, you know one part, the basic part is, of course, giving back, but then it is a good amount of time which we devote to the organization. It could be time. It could be other resources as well. The key thing is, if the board membership is does not espouse the values what I myself have, then it would become very difficult for me to keep continuing with the board. One of the things which I always look for is, does does the board have something related to education? And when I joined the board of this organization, I did not know as much about how much education activities they do for underprivileged kids in various schools. And as I learn more about this organization and what they do and how much budget really goes there, I said this is absolutely the right place that I will devote my time and energy for. So does it match with my values? I think that is the first and foremost thing I look for. And second question, if I'm the only one on the board who's different and everyone is basically either white or someone who's not from my background. But the key is, does that really, should that really dissuade me from giving back? Is that the main reason? Of course, it would be good, but should that stop me from giving back? Not necessarily, right, not at all. I would say, if the if the board is welcoming enough of who I am, why should I do that work? So that's, that's the way I look at it. That's not really stop me from giving back if the diversity is just more than what how we look diversity includes the thought processes. If the thought processes are matching, it doesn't really matter much. If the other person is not from the same background,
can I say something I don't think and I'm not disagreeing. I think one of the things. That I feel happens when you get a board that's inclusive, you get different points of view and right and so it's not necessarily about about it's not about looking the same. I know that we are, even as a black community, not a monolith. You know, they're different opinions and different ideas. But what's really important at some level, is that that board, as you said, be inclusive. It is not, you know, it's not something that is so much about diversity means a lot of things it means. It means diversity of thought, inclusiveness of people from various backgrounds. And when I had done the work that I did many, many years ago, I felt like there was always an excuse that, you know, we can't find certain people to fulfill the role of a board member and and it's not about money, you know, it's never about money. It should be more if anything about that diversity of thought and inclusiveness, and if that person has the ability to to reach out to communities, then that's a really important aspect. Or can can do as well. That's
a very good point. I totally agree. Yeah,
if and I have this question, I'll direct it towards you. Antoinette, if you are the either the only minor minority representation on the board or one of the very few. How do you measure, and actually, Ty asked this question in the chat, how do you measure whether or not your voice is being heard? How does that? How does that translate for you
in the actions that I see with the people that sit down around the table, so knowing that I'm not speaking for the entire black population, but I'm there not just for social capital. I'm there to have an impact, and so being the only one means I get to say and give my perspective on the way things are handled, the way things are presented and represented for the people that the organization serves. I know this when I start to see those things in the work the organization does, right? So if I say these are things that I think would make sense from a person that looks like me to a constituent constituency that looks like me, and we start to move. The organization starts to move in that direction based on feedback and data share that says these are the things that are happening around us, so let's engage, and you start to see them take those initiatives or those steps, then you feel like you're being heard, because you're seeing the change. You're seeing the infusion of the diverse perspectives, and it doesn't have to come from someone looking like me in order to have that impact on voice being heard for the constituents the organization is serving, but for me, I know I'm being heard when it's not just from sitting around that table when we're in a board meeting, I'm actually seeing it in action, steps taken by the organization, with the outcomes or at least the initiated actions that are looking towards an outcome for those things, that's when I know I'm being heard
while on a board. I know I feel like all of you have probably heard token or tokenization, not even just in boards, but in just like in other environments. How do you maintain and make sure that you are not being the token? Ernest Shaw asked something around token, well,
some tokens have a value, yeah,
all right. Say more about that. Tokens have a
value. So the fact that you get access to that table I am, say I'm token. Din, now that I'm sitting there, I have a choice. I can sit here as just a face of the people of color, or I can come with everything I show up with and not be scared of losing my social capital or social equity with the people around the table. So if I'm going to be the one chosen to sit there and talk about internet pill, you got the wrong one table and sit there as the token I'm coming with my two ears and my eyes and my mouth, there you go. Use them all in the context of what is being discussed, says, This is how we will function with me here so the token only exists if the individual who shows up sits in silence, but if you show up as the person there to provide access information, skills and abilities to work. Round out the people that you're there with, that token has value and can be cashed in for all that it brings.
So Ditto.
Said it's so well, I just want to record the whole thing. And
I mean, I remember the token. You can be the token one, the token one is only the quiet one, then that token has no value. And if you're going to hear things and not respond to things, then what's your value, other than to be the face? That's not what we want to do, get at the table and share or shed light on what is or isn't happening, because accountability rolls back to all of us.
Absolutely.
Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I think that that's good to like shed light and say and or that one, there could be value in being the token, so long as you are voicing and you are active and you are you know, you are leveraging your your position and your space, and then you're not just a token, like even if you were initially recruited for that purpose, you show up, and then you serve a deeper purpose. Is what I'm hearing. How? How many boards does everyone sit on? And within those boards? What? What are the types of committees that you're that you're typically on?
I'm on two boards right now, and that one, one of the boards, is relatively new to me, so I'm trying to to position where I need to be alright. So that's one of the things that I find really important to think about. And where is my energy going to serve best? The other board, I have been sort of relegated as the arts person so, and I'm not quite sure what that is, but, but, but it really is a community base. It's literally working, like I say, with communities who are really disenfranchised in many ways, and so I find myself trying to think programmatically for them. It's a small board. It's like maybe about five people on this particular board. So it's a relatively new organization, seven years in the making, and bunch of really, really lovely, caring people, you know. And I think I stay there because I don't want, I don't want the organization to fold. So there's a lot of, lot of rationale for me. So that's a heart piece for me. You know what? I mean is it's not and they're very good at what they do. You have a historian on it, you know, someone who's from the community, who is very active, and so all those reasons for being on a board you know, to me, is relegated to, what is it that I can do in order to make a contribution, you know, contribute towards the the actual mission that the board has come up with? I hope that makes sense. I you know, it's just, it's a hard question on, but two boards I'm on two right now.
And what Antoinette within the boards that you're on? How many boards are you on, and what committees on those boards are you in?
Okay, so I sit on three boards. Okay, and one of the boards doesn't really have committees. Okay, you're a grantor of funds. So basically, whatever the need is, is where we fit in, and so there are no designated committees. So what I'm doing right now, I just finished working on a community arts grant, and then working on building out the website, because they really don't have a presence yet, but then you know exactly what they've been doing, but they're just under the radar kind of organization. All I have to say is, man, woman, and you know they are. So there and then the other organization I stood on one of the major fundraising committees that they have. So considering what happened with COVID, and a lot of that has to be read to rethink how that is being done. So I sit on that board and with my community organization, the Midtown benefit district, I could just say what board that is. There are committees, but I have not honestly committed to any of them, because there's so much going on in community right now. The voice. Of action and activity around all things community are not relegated to a particular committee. So I have not to a single committee at this point. And I'm not sure, I'm not sure I will do that if it because right now, there's areas in the committees of safety and cleanliness and greening and all of that that happened in our respective areas. So I just did not say I will be on this committee. I'm sure they're going to ask me to commit to something.
G What? How many boards are you on, and what committees are you on in those so
I'm only on one of the boards and one committee which I'm on deals with, how do we do the upkeep of the buildings of the organization, and another one which was recently formed is, how do we ensure that we look at the whole organization, given that COVID is going on, and how do we keep variety of things which can infuse in the organization to make organization more effective, given the restrictions, valid restrictions which are in place. So those are the two committees.
Thank you for that. So I'm gonna go over to the audience. Ty said he loves your everyone's pause and laughter after the token question, some graceful Philip says, token becomes an asset. Gary Mullins says, Hello, he's a artist. Christy Applegate says, How can staff encourage a non an NPO that is only focused on inclusivity in programming but not in staffing and not in the board and not in the board understand, understand that they will not succeed with that and helping the board to understand that they will not succeed without a bi POC leader, leadership on the board of staff. So I'm gonna break that question down again, how to encourage a nonprofit organization that is only focused on inclusivity and programming and not staffing? How to help them to understand the significance of of that and to let them know they will need that in leadership and in leadership of staff, you want to take that a G, it looks like your mouth is like getting ready to say something. Yeah. So, so, I mean, there are various
views of thinking this through and advantages. I think any board which is not thinking of inclusivity, inclusivity on the board level, are they really thinking that they want to survive for long knowing that we are a diverse society, we are a diverse country, how can we not think on broader terms if we want to attract variety of demographics into our organization or Whatever we do, if we don't have that expertise at the top level, then the direction provided on how to run that organization won't really be as much effective. So I would say that is the basic thinking which we need to inculcate in all the boards that think big and think different, and if we don't have variety of people sitting and making the decisions, then we are not going to be effective at that organization.
What would your response be to that? Aletha,
I do think that I agree with Ajit, I think there's a there's a real missed opportunity if we don't really branch out and have a board that is diverse. That was one of my problems, even with an organization that I worked for, is that for years, you know, you look around and you try to figure out, well, who's teaching what you know with regards to history, who's who's missing, you know, those educational you know opportunities or issues. Because when you have a diverse board. You literally have, you have you've brought in a measure of expertise that is really, really important in terms of voicing what needs to happen with the organization itself. And when you start looking at your. Staff. And I think that's also a board responsibility to kind of really take a look at, you know, who's being hired and who's who's really in the position of authority within the organizations for the various things. Then it's, it's really, it's really a problem in that you don't, you're not thinking outside the box. You're not You're not allowing for a greater input from, you know, from people who who are staff, or who are, you know, who've been hired, to really think about the things that affect the community at large. So I do think, I think the the responsibility of the board is, is to look for people who can, can, can not only add something to it, but who will bring in potential. You know, employees, if that's an issue in terms of of looking at the structure of the organization itself, I just want
to jump in. I think organizations and boards have to really be open and honest about what they're really trying to do together, because you're bringing this, this group of skills, to a table, to be advisors to an organization that is not only seeking your finances, but they're also seeking your help and support. And in that support, there's a lot that comes in that. And so looking at and being open to the board, looking at the staff, and being able to say these are also some things. It goes back to your question about, am I being heard if I'm sitting and I'm in an initiative to diversify my board, and I'm not looking at taking that and infusing into the staff and the way we operate, and making all those things connect in a way that says the mission of the organization is to diversify, not just in people and skills, but how we deliver the services. How do we get and collect the skills of the staff that makes sense for what we're doing today and what we're planning to do every now and then, check back at the mission to see if you are on target with what you plan to do, and are you representing, either in action indeed, or physical presence of persons on the board the community that you serve. And I don't know that we always do that, or organizations always do that, and I think it's imperative for board members, token or not to be there to say these are the types of things we want to see. So if you have staff that does not reflect this this constituency of the organization, then let's talk about that and be honest about what that could mean for the organization. It doesn't mean heads roll. It doesn't mean that they're they're bad things happening. It just means are we doing what we need to do to strengthen this organization, to represent the programs and activities that we have for the population we say we serve. And if we do that, are we doing, sharing and showing the best representation of ourselves, and that is from the board down to the persons on the ground and who what and who what, when, when, how we produce literature and things that reflect the organization and its mission, because a lot of the nonprofit organizations are looking at communities that are diverse, and if the board looks one way, staff looks another way, and then that just creates almost a contradiction in what you're trying to say, because you know, they're qualified people who could represent in all cultures and ethnicities that are that are present in this city in number, exactly I'm gonna quiet down now. No,
please don't
I agree
there's a succinctness to how you present your ideas, and I think that you know, in logical and I appreciate that from you, because it really helps, you know, to formulate what really needs to be said, you know, and how, how, how important it is to to look at the structure, you know, the organizational structure. And of course, you know, feel responsible for that. You know, even as a board, I
can say, I actually go back and look at whatever the board agreement is that I signed or that is provided when they have them to see what is really the responsibility of the person on the board. And if you write those things down, and that's what you're telling me, I have to sign off on, then please expect me to do it, even if it's uncomfortable for you, yep, because you're asking me to sign off and say, these are things I'm supposed to do. These are things I'm supposed to hold you accountable for as a board member, and so then I give that to you as a person leading an organization, and then I'm expecting that also to be in your mind when you report back to the board. Word that this is what you're doing and sharing with your staff, even if your staff doesn't look the way you think it should look. What actions are you taking in order to make that work? And how do you do that together?
No. Christy says, Thanks. Antoinette,
you're welcome.
So in recent events, there's been a lot of discussion around race and even more specifically, around Black Lives Matter. There's been a lot of protests. There's been organizations that have released statements and taken various stances. What has been some of the responses of the organizations where you're on the board of and have you been pleased with their response to recent Black Lives Matter events
go ahead, Miss it's a little bit too late. But you know, I always, I always think a lot of a lot of people I live in, let's say I live in a community that really doesn't have understand what Black Lives Matters mean, which is really unfortunate. Um, I had my sign outside of my lawn, and two days later it was removed, and I had another sign, No justice, no peace, and then that, I have to say it blew off the mailbox. I'm not going to say somebody took it, took it down. All right, I'm not going to go that far. But what I really think these, these, the institutional statements have to be reflective of what's happening in the organization. To me, that's what I think. What I say is it's a little bit late. I think these issues you know, are about racism and racism has been with us for a long time, and you know, and now people are at a stage where they're there. They're somehow feeling the need to write statements. I want to see action. That's me. I'd rather see somebody, if you're talking about about caring about black people and caring about, you know, certain issues around Black Lives Matter, then you then you have to be a part of that, that movement, that social movement, because it's a social and spiritual movement, and it's a it's a movement about internalizing, internalizing what Black Lives Matter means that goes both for, you know, for the black community and the white community, is not just black lives matter. And you know, there's this beautiful statement. It really has to be internalized when you
make when you made the comment Aletha about you don't you don't want to just see statements. You want to see some action. What are some of the actions that you would be interested in seeing to that would demonstrate to you that that those statements are meant?
I think when you you can't shut yourself off from communities. I think what, what I see in some instances, is this still the redlining that happened fit what 5060, years ago, 75 years ago is still, it's still this division in communities right now, there's one thing that happens north in North Baltimore, and another thing that happens in South Baltimore. And somehow, to me, there is a need for a collaborative effort, or going into communities, or actually putting one's putting oneself in in those environments, you know, and really begin to talk to people we want, we want to defund the police. Well, that's one aspect of a movement. But in if we're talking about trying to actually make a difference, then we need community centers. We need places where people can go. I was sitting here watching recently the America skates, which I think is a fabulous, fabulous program about black skaters who go into skating rinks, and, you know, the music is just like, I mean, amazing. And it's one of those opportunities where, you know, you create something that allows people to be who they are in their community. You know, it's. About transplanting somebody somewhere. It's literally about, about being involved by by putting yourself in that in that space. Does it make? I don't know if that makes sense. Oh yeah, that definitely makes sense. That definitely makes, makes sense to me. But you know, like, you know, you put yourself out there. You put yourself in the space. You don't you know. You don't separate yourself. You don't have a bubble around you that says, you know, I'm here and I'm going to bring these people in. That doesn't work.
How do you g, how would you say that one might go about and are you? Are you doing anything to actively work around leveraging the current social climate to bring about more change? Is there a way of harnessing what's happening right now that could potentially be used to move organizations that folks are on boards further?
Good, good question. I think yes, what we have been doing, I'm talking more about the colleagues who I work with. One of the key things what we have been doing is educating the team members about the topic. Lot of, lot of things were just not being spoken about before, the history, how we arrived at where we are, how the institutional and systemic racism still which exists in the society. To educate people about that, I think really will open up and we are seeing the difference. It really helps people think differently. And I would like to see, you know, all the nonprofit nonprofit organizations, or even otherwise, if they are educating. Why we why should we not educate and talk about it openly on what really happens? If it becomes more clear to people and they understand why it happens, I think that that conversation will become more productive, rather than just everyone digging into their own camps. And I think Alita referred to that a little bit about the collaboration part, right, having that education and continuing that open and honest talk, it is a very difficult topic. It's not easy to go and just go and talk about it. It's difficult, and that's why it has not really happened to the extent what it should have happened. But this really has opened up the doors about, okay, let's talk about it. Let's learn. Everyone has a different place. Let's learn from it. And you know the action part, what actions will we take now that we have learned and we know more about it? And absolutely, that action part has to be paramount. What are the steps we are going to take?
I can also say this. I think that young people, you know, I'm at an age where I have been through this, various phases of this, this social issue and, and, of course, you know, I've always stated that racism is systemic. And of course, it's in institutions. You got institutional racism, all of that. And if it's not dealt with and talked about, then we're going to be at the same place 20 years from now, I won't be here, because I'll be 70 soon, right? So 20 years from now, I'm anticipating that it's going to be left to young people again, you know to do this, and what I really, really am disappointed about is how as a generation, meaning my generation, somehow didn't continue that conversation. That conversation was difficult for people, and they continue to ignore it, you know, or you're bitching about something that you know happened, like, you know, I don't know, 50 years ago, whatever, 400 years ago, and without realizing that the historical aspect of that is so important, and not everybody wants to listen. Not everybody wants to listen. Not everybody's going to, you know, sit down and have that difficult conversation, and that that conversation is real, and if we ever going to move past some of the issues around, you know, whether museums should be. More receptive to communities of color, women, whatever, you know, I think we're going to be we're going to have problems. We're going to continue to have problems. And I feel like the organizations that exist that write these beautiful letters, you know, I just want to see people act on those letters, move beyond the letter, and sit down and have the real talk. Can
I jump in on this? Yeah, I do feel like the letters of one thing that's great. You acknowledge that it existed, or you put up a poster in your window, and there you have it. You're not done right to the point of the generations from like Aletha, from from then to now, there was serious consequences for anybody making such statements about wanting change. We've seen that people are, yeah, you get blacklisted or iced out of things, so access to what you need to do to take care of your families become more difficult because you didn't have a number of people that are really open to hearing these years and so and there was no real evidence that people who were not Black could see and know that it was true. We knew it because we saw it. We lived it, experienced it. But a lot of white people, other people didn't believe it, if you will. Because black lives matter. When I show up at the boardroom, board meeting, when I got on the board, I came as a black person. So it was going to be a topic of, how do we level the playing field? Because now you know you're diversifying, but there are reasons why we have to have these initiatives, because of the disparities that existed before were really still there, and people did not always, or you didn't see what they brought as the same standard as people of white people. So that's why now you want to bring in somebody to at least say you're making the attempts. And so the movement that's happening now, and the videos that are there that show you this is really what's happening with little to no cause are and have been going on for decades. And it's and because the ears are open, eyes wide open, now it's maybe there is really something to this, and we can now listen and believe what they have to say. Unfortunately, the level and depth of the damage and trauma done as a result of that runs deep, and you created now generations of people who don't even feel or believe that they can do certain things. And then there's programming that has to be in place to try to move that that knob forward, so that people can feel like they can do things be in a museum. Because the standard of what is good is not defined by just white male who've been in the arts for years, and what their standard of good is to be able to be in a community where you can buy a home, the standard of being able to buy a home is accessible to me, even though I'm generations within the projects. How do I buy a home if I can't get a loan? These are the types of things that have been disparate across our culture for years, and now here we are saying, what do we do? I put out a statement. Well, that statement is just as good as the piece of paper is written on Thank you, an action that follows that says, if a black life matters, then everything about that life matters, everything about that family of the person you're looking at matters. Which means, if I go to school, my school should look like your school, I should have access air conditioner, books that I can use, classrooms that I'm not disgusted by, that I can sit here and have a pleasant learning experience, and I have teachers who are who care about the information I receive, that I safely get there and I safely go home. And if that's where I'm going to live, I'm going to live in an area where there's a landlord who cares about the fact that my black life, that you're getting federal funds for, whether you subsidize me or not, my house, needs to be something the same standard that you would have for anybody who did not look like me. We have to undo that, and then we go to work, and I don't need to be the person cleaning the floor, but if you're not going to have opportunity for me to be in that boardroom or in that management position or director position because of what I didn't come with, because my HBCU is not the same as your Ivy League school, because you don't see that as a value, then here we go. These are all the things that matter to a black life when you're trying to represent me in a movement, and you put it on a piece of paper, and you don't open up the doors for all the things that would give me access beyond the paper. Let's sit down and talk about it. Let me tell you what the action could be, because at this moment, we have put up signs, posters and written papers, but the action to how we move the needle for education, housing and employment still undone. Who's hailing that
damn I mean, hey, I'm ready to do a rap here. That's
to me. It's the truth about what Black Lives Matter. The movement is about. It's just not about policemen and giving them less money. And programs may not be of any significance, or organizations that drive programs that they don't even really know are not effective. They just show a number of kids, and they don't even know what those kids are really being it really getting things from these programs. Because do we have data and evidence that is working with all that they bring to the classroom or to the program that has been in them from their grandparents, and everything about their attitude, everything about where they are, how they live, came from their grandparents, their great grandparents, and that was their normal. So all that needs to happen to get them out of that normal and the way of thinking still needs to change. It needs to change that.
I wish I had the answer, but I know I'm reading this book called The Condemnation of Blackness, and it is literally about a system, a systemic process in which black people were undermine, considered degenerate, considered stupid, you know, something that has carried through historically and and so it's not to Excuse anyone behavior or anything like that. But we're talking about even an incarceration system. You know, we can go into the prisons if we want to, because there are artists in the prisons. I mean, some fabulous artists. And so I do think that that there comes a point where reading it and reading these beautiful letters or reading even a book is not enough. It is about that active engagement in places that you don't feel comfortable in. That's what I think so.
And I can circle that back to the board. I mean, you're sitting on boards of organizations that represent programs that are affecting people in the different areas, around in a neighborhood, in a community, in a state, your representation of being there will ensure, or should ensure, that those persons running those organizations will do what they need to do. So beyond the paper of a black lives matter or any other movement that you are making sure you're holding them accountable for what they say they do. So if they say they're raising money for something, make sure they're raising money for that something, and that money goes to that something. Yeah, that's what you do. That's what you will always do. And every time you sit on the board and you're in a place to have an open discussion, whether it's uncomfortable or not, be prepared to lose your social capital with the people around the table, because that will tell you whether or not they were really interested in having you there and having your outcomes present and having your voice heard, because if you get removed, then they didn't really want you there anyway, interested in you giving what they would what they thought they were seeking. Yep,
facts. Thank you for that. Another Mic drop. Ernest says, Yes. And then he says, clear stroke. And then Ty says, That's why she my auntie in my head. And Christy says, board should pay you. Should be paying you to come speak truth to them. I have a question for you, Ajit, why is it important for black, indigenous people of color, to sit on nonprofit boards? Why is that important?
Variety so many, so many reasons. One, they bring so many different experiences, and if others are not listening to the experiences, how will we even change the whole aspect? And I know both Eliza and Anthony talked about about the action part, right? Unless and until we share that and we educate, how will we even make that action. That is, that is absolutely one part with second thing, if we if, if the team members come and show up on the board and act the way we are supposed to, and, you know, make changes, it just gives so much more confidence to others. Hey, yes, we can do that as well. And it just then builds that momentum of inclusion, giving back, making us better, increasing the action. I think we have a start and then continue doing that action part. So those are the things which go in my mind when, when you ask that question, you know, why is it important for people of color to be on the board?
Aletha, you mentioned that you're on several boards and that you. Been on boards for a while. What are some of the trends that you feel like are repeat trends that continually come up in terms of board development, and what is something that's more, more or less like a new trend, like something that's happening like more in present day right now?
Um, I, I haven't been on many boards. No, I used to, as I said before, I used to run programs at the State Arts Council, right? But I guess the latest trends, of the latest the continuing trend is to look for
people who have money to be on boards and words, the latest trend is looking at inclusivity, which is maybe for the last maybe 1010,
years,
and claiming not to be able to find it. But you know, that's been consistent. I think that when I consider how we function as a society, I do think we're missing a whole cadre of folks who would be able to contribute to a board. So I don't know what to say about that. I really don't have a real specific answer to the question, really,
okay, so maybe I have some thoughts on that. Cool. Of course, people are looking for younger people. They're looking for money. Some of the other things I think now are about, how do we as boards, the presence of the board, and what the board does in this social media, heavy, latent society now, make sure there is a presence of the organization, and how they show up in it. So as you know, COVID just kind of added to that. If you are not there, you need to get there quickly into the social media space. Otherwise you can lose a lot of constituency by just not being available in that same way. So even in trying to engage with your organization, the board, the community that they serve. I think that is all around, not just paying homage to sensitivity of the persons in it, but also, how do we represent ourselves as an organization in in the digital world, and what does that look like for us? Because at this juncture, I don't know that people have always realized that they come together and with that, because of social media, because of the internet access to so many things, who you have on your board and what they do, people can Google them. They can find out what they stand for. They can also make things very uncomfortable. So even though it may not be a stated trend, there are things that boards and people on boards, when they're choosing persons to be on boards that they know, who in fact, they are asking to participate. So the trend would be, how do we as a unified organization, board, organization and staff show up in the world? Because those things you know, people have gotten contracts snatched because some of the things that were represented that was not received very well by the wider audience, because it's not just even though your address is local, you're not necessarily local. So I think considering all of that now, goes to how do we make sure what we have in our website and our board representation are representative us as an organization in total? So I see the trend from Black Lives Matter, maybe kicking that up a bit to say, are we representing and reflecting the organization and the people that represent us in the best light? And so we need to diversify in a lot of different ways, not just in the ethnicities that are represented, but in the actions that we that we take as an organization, because anybody can find us, and anybody can see what we've done, because everybody's taking a picture, because everybody's got a camera. And so here we are sitting in an address in Baltimore city with a worldwide presence. Black Lives Matter showed you that when you had protesters around the world, and if it's not a trend, and I just made that up to
make a trend already,
take a note. But I think we will be looking to make sure that presence is reflective of something that can all stand behind. Mm.
Hmm. Aletha, I would like to ask you a bit about one of the things that I frequently hear when I talk to people, black people, largely about being on boards and about why they may not be on a board. It is not just because of the time commitments. Sometimes it's also they're just not recruited. But another thing that comes up for those people who do have the time and who do have the resources and the social capital, but still don't want to join a board, they think about the emotional labor that comes from being a representative voice on a board. Have you seen or had any sort of experience like, can you speak to can you speak to that?
Well, I only through experience where I have had to present to a board. You know, and watch the uncomfortableness of a project that I'm doing that revolves around, you know, a slave Memorial. And it has been a situation that hasn't been easy, you know, it's taken almost almost 20 years to get the project off the ground, a lot of convincing, a lot of convincing of the board that was, you know, a part of that. And so I find myself as an artist, not wanting to do that. I mean that to me, is my valuable time that really begins to impinge upon my ability to think about my artwork and how I want to proceed. You know, as an artist, um, I think a lot of times when you start asking certain parts of the community to participate on boards, then then they certainly have a right to say no, and I do think that what will happen is, how do you move people onto boards who will want that experience? I feel like I am unique. I don't really, I don't really, necessarily want to be on a board, but I know that it's important because of I've seen over the years what that means in the context of organizations that I care about and have had experiences with and good experiences with, and there's a need, there's a need to step forward, alright, so that, that said, I Think the recruitment has to be a bit broader. I think we need to be looking at, you know, the colleges, you know, the graduates from the colleges. I think the board does need to be younger. I think the at least, there should be younger people on the board who can introduce, you know, some of their own ideas about what what they can do, and what they can contribute, and what needs to happen. So I again, I don't know if I answered the question or not. I just feel it's a very it's a very tough ask. You know, it's a very hard ask, and when, when you're asked to do it, I think what one needs to do is to to figure out if you're willing to relegate that time. I think time is a very valuable thing to me, you know, and it's something I have difficulty sacrificing sometimes.
Can I answer that? Oh, you see them?
No, I was saying yes please,
because you're talking about the emotional labor for being on boards people being concerned about that. I have a tendency to make things up. So I'm going to say this to anybody listening. You can advocate on the ground with protests signs. You can write letters to say, these are the types of things that we could do differently. Or you can sit on the board and you can bring all of that advocacy work to the boardroom and your presence and the actions you take on that board, we could have the same, if not greater, outcomes, because you will be directly engaged with the people who make decisions about the things you advocate and protest over. But if you really want to engage and the emotional labor that. Comes with that, to me, is no different than if you were out there in the street, pounding the pavement to make sure the voices of all that you represent from the street are being heard. So you're just taking that to a seat at the table and saying, because I am here, I will make sure you are aware of the things that are important to me and the people I represent, the organization, initiatives, actions need to be taken. I can sit at this table and tell you how we can do that, and I can keep pressing you until you hear me or act based on what I'm sharing with you, if you're open to that, and if they're not, you can even take that with you and go someplace else to make sure what happened there won't happen anywhere else. So I see board work as a way to not just give back, but also advocate to two things, that which is right and that which is necessary, one to be included and for the actions that would be taken by the board as a whole. And when everything that organization does so, the more people of color on boards across all the nonprofits that exist and be there in number just creates the presence that is needed to basically reflect what a city, a state needs in the work that these organizations are being funded for. And so when you're going out asking people to give money to this organization to do certain things, you being at that table says I can see how this is working. I can see where change may be needed, and I can also see how I can show up here strong with everything that I brought with me, and make sure that there's an imprint on what this organization does.
You should be,
I agree. I second that, Ajit, I second that,
yeah, absolutely. I third it's
official. It is official. We have a, what is it called? Queer, a quorum.
I'm going on mute. No,
no, no, we're at we're at the bottom of the hour. I have, like, a lot more questions that I wanted to get a chance to ask. I would like to ask Ajit, could you kind of add to what Antoinette was just saying, and just what are the perks, benefits and reasons for a person of color to get on a board. Why should a person of color join a board?
There are many things. One is what internet said, right? How can we really affect the change? And if we are in the position, then we can make and affect those decisions which reflect the reality of our communities. And second, it's about personal development as well. If we give back we get it's always a two way street. It's never a one way. We can encourage our younger team, you know, younger population, kids coming out of the college, even them to join, even if it is a small board. How can they if, when they do that, they learn how things really work, and when they learn that, not only in a nonprofit world, they can use the same skills even at work, gaining on how to communicate, understanding how to influence I mean, these are so many things. When they work in a nonprofit environment, they can use those skill sets even outside. So I think it's very important for people of color to join younger folks to join the board. They can really affect that change and make their own I would say skills better.
Okay, thank you for that. I see that both ways. Like you said, they can, like it's a give and take. They'll develop professionally, and they can also contribute to issue that they particularly, that they really care about, to make a difference. We are at the end. I'm just going to go back to the chat, and Christy says, Thank you all for your time and wisdom. Olita, I love your earrings. So thank you all for coming on to the counter narrative show, for sharing your insight and wisdom. I feel a little bit more informed. Yeah, so just thank you for continually sharing your time to end talent, and also for the different boards that you serve on, I feel better knowing that you three are out there on boards, because from everything that I've heard tonight, I feel like you are there, you are present, you are trying, you are pushing forward to make change. And that makes me feel good. It, and it's actually even more inspiring me inspiring, I would say, for me to get on the board. So I appreciate the work that you guys are out there doing in the world, and also appreciate you for being on the show. Thank you
for having Thank you for having us. Really lovely.
Yes, it has been. Thank you. Take care.
Thank you. All right. Y'all have a good night. You too. Bye. Bye. Fine.
I need to know everything, who in the what in the where. I need everything. Trust me. I hear what you're saying, but allegiance. Know what you're telling me. I'm curious. George, I hop in the Porsche five and a horse. I'm ready for war. I'm coming for throws to turn it with ghosts. I need to know everything you