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Join the Youthworks Ministry Support Team as they discuss how to have an effective youth and children’s ministry in every church in conversation with local ministry workers as well as national and international voices.
Get in touch - effectiveministrypodcast@youthworks.net
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: You know, it's
the same thing that like, I would say
to myself still now and what I remind
myself of, um, whenever I'm sitting
with students or friends or whatever
and just talking about hard things.
But, um,
to try to take the time to really
understand what the student is asking.
Don't assume that you understand their
question right away, because they may
even be using words differently, ideas
differently, whatever the case is.
They have different life experiences.
Um, one of my, there's an
apologist that I love to listen to.
His name's Abdu Murray, but
he often says, we don't answer
questions, we answer people.
And I think that's so profound because
we don't just wanna take a kid's
question and slap an answer on it.
What we wanna do is address whatever
is going on in the heart of that
student and try to show them the
truth and the goodness of Jesus.
But oftentimes it just takes us, it
takes me, um, being patient enough
not assuming that I know right away what
the kid is asking, but to really do the
work, to dig into the initial question,
um, and really try to understand what
the, what the heart issue is, what the,
what the hangup is for that student so
that we can speak truth in Jesus to them.
Welcome back to the Effective
Ministry Podcast, the podcast that
helps you have an effective youth and
children's ministry in your church.
My name's Al James.
I'm a youth ministry advisor with
YouthWorks in Sydney, and today
we are joined by Valerie O'Brien
from Aspen Ministry, vals from
Cleveland, Ohio, and she's passionate
about seeing the next generation.
Come to know and love Jesus.
And she spent more than 15 years in
local church youth ministry in Cleveland,
and she's been walking with families,
leading teams and discipling students.
And then spent time as a youth
ministry advisor, training and
coaching youth leaders across
the US and around the world.
And out of that experience as a youth
ministry coach, she founded Aspen
Ministry and developed her latest
initiative, the 10,000 Questions Project.
This is a project that's based on
something every youth leader knows, that
young people have an endless stream of
questions about life, faith, God and the
world, and Aspen Ministry is gathering
thousands of these real questions,
giving us a window into what's really on
students' hearts and minds, and helping
churches listen better and respond
with honesty and with hope as well.
In this first episode of two, we're
gonna hear Val's own journey into
ministry and what she's learned so far
through the 10,000 questions project.
And then in two weeks time, we'll
release a shorter follow up episode
where we'll get practical and we'll
talk about how to create youth ministry
environments where asking questions
isn't just allowed, but it's encouraged.
And so we're gonna dive into
part one of our conversation
with Val O'Brien right now.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I am here with Val O'Brien.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Hi.
Good
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Hi.
Good to be here with you.
Yeah, yeah.
How's things?
Oh, good.
Yeah, really good.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I've
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
been looking forward to the
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
interview all day,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
It's good, it's good.
It's
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it's just
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
such a pleasure to get to do it with you.
So Thank you.
Having,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: me.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So where are you first of all?
Yes.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yes.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Okay.
I am, I'm in the US Uhhuh.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I am
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: in Cleveland,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Ohio.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I'm
right on Lake Erie, which is
a big, beautiful inland lake.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
know, I am about,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
almost square between.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
and New York City.
So
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
that, that is why.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: But,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it's
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
a great spot.
We were just
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about it before
we came on, but it's a, it's a great
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
a little,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
little, spot here in the us.
I really love living
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, um, and you've been brushing up on
your metric system, um, temperature, so
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
I've been trying to,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Give it how, what, what kind
of temperature is it today?
'cause you're in the middle of
summer at the moment, right?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yes.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
And it has been hot.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: It has been hot.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
So, okay,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: think I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
we'll, we'll see about that, Val.
We'll see if it's really okay.
I think it's 28.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Make sense?
Oh, 2028.
Yeah.
28 degrees.
Yeah.
That's.
That, uh, it's like, does it get,
how hot does it get down there?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I don't really even know.
Like, uh, probably like a really hot
day would be around 40 degrees, so,
oh, I don't know what that, I have no
idea about what that is in Imperial.
Um, you crazy Americans
with your Imperial, um, I
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I know.
I don't
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
dunno why
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: we
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
do it.
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: know why.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah.
Maybe it was 30 then.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Maybe it was 32.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Could be, could be,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: up on it again.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: tried
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
for a while to like s brain.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Living in Europe.
Okay.
Okay.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
I'm gonna get good at this.
I'm gonna get good at
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: not
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
No, but I mean, 20 20 28 is solid.
That's, that's, that's warm.
That's even here.
That's warm walking around.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: around,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
for sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Wonderful.
And so you, you're in Cleveland, Ohio.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yes.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, it's a real privilege.
I mean, we were just talking about this
and, and praying about this beforehand.
Just like the, the privilege it is to
kind of have a conversation across oceans.
Um, this is not something
I do all that often.
Um, but yeah, it's incredible.
I was gonna
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I am like, it's
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
say something
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and it's
such an amazing thing, I think to e
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
in our conversation.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the
things that are so similar
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
And much, much less.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: like
knowing and loving Jesus and
being in ministry and working with
students and all of those things.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um, and then just like.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: subtle things
that are different and just unique and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: just enjoyable.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
when we were praying, when we were
praying beforehand, I said, amen.
And you said Amen.
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
just a, a, a tiny little kind
of difference there, which
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: tiny, little
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, but it's rea it is really
wonderful to have you on.
And, um, and we're gonna be talking a
whole lot about questions, um, today.
Um, but before we dive into, um, some
of the things that you've been thinking
about, um, in terms of questions and, um,
young people and the types of questions
that young people are asking, um, just
keen to hear a little bit about you.
So we know your name, we know you're
from Cleveland, Ohio, but tell us, yeah.
Tell us a little bit more
about, um, about you.
Um, you know, what's it
like to living in Cleveland?
Where, where do you go to church?
What's church like?
All that sort of stuff.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
have actually.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
in Cleveland my whole life.
I went to university in Chicago.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
I went to.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Bible
Institute and studied Bible there.
Um, it was such a privilege.
I always joke now that like I'm one
of the 1% of the world's population
that uses their university degree.
So
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
That's me.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: like,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here I am.
I'm
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: still
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
still got medical degree.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um, in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
student,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Such a
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
a privilege.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
get to study there.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
But my family
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: all
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
from the c
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: area.
Uh,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
My
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: met
here, my grandparents were here.
Their parents were
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
parents.
Wow.
I have two.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: both
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Finding my family.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: are huge.
I got lots of cousins.
I'm always running into
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Whenever
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I'm
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: at a
restaurant with my friends or whatever,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Running into family.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
and they're always asking me,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
How many cousins have
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I'm,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I'm like, I don't know, I I've lost count.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: lost count.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
In the forties, fifties.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
have, and a lot of them
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Cleveland
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: so just
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
have a lot of
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
roots with my family
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Generations.
Generations of, of, um, of O'Brien's
and, you know, other associated
whatever, whatever names on the
other side and that kind of thing.
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yes,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: lots
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
of us around here.
Yeah.
Um, it's been really special
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I've
been able to work, I've, I've
worked since I graduated at a
couple different churches here
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Doing youth.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: primarily.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I loved it.
I love church ministry.
I just think that, you know, the local
church is just such a central part of.
The plan of the Kingdom of God.
And so just have been such a privilege
to be in church ministry there.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the church
that I'm at now is a church that when
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I was working for,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: bunch of,
you know, different churches and stuff
like that, two primarily, um, didn't
ever go to church with my family.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so I have this huge Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
my,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: my immediate
family are, they're following Jesus.
I never got to worship with any of them.
And a couple years ago when I
started working for a nonprofit,
not a local church, um, was able to
go to church, it was during COVID.
I,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
um, mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and I was
like, I don't have time to go to a
whole bunch of different churches
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Figure out where I need mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
my soul needs to be in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I need to
go next week and I need to commit
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Be there and, um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So I
started going to church that I
knew for a long time through my
parents and some of my siblings.
And
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So it's just been the sweetest thing I
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: been going
to church now for a couple years with,
uh, a couple of my siblings and a
couple of my nephews and my parents
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
You know, just to
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: next to my dad
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
and worship.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: again,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: hear him singing
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
And yeah.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
have my nephews, you know,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
call me out for being
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
late to church and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yell and wave to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, that's really,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: sweet
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
but
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: But,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, just
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: been
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so good for my own spirit.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the last
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: years.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
But it also,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: church that
I'm at now is, um, it's in downtown Ccle.
It's in like the Cleveland neighborhoods.
Um, but it's 125 years
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Wow.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
on the same corner
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yep.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
building doing gospel ministry
in that corner of Cleveland.
And the neighborhoods have
changed and the people have
changed, but, it just feels, it
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
It just feels,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: to be a part of
like the heritage of that church there.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Yeah.
Is it, is it pretty local to you?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: It is.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
It's about seven minutes down the road.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A drive.
A drive or a walk, A drive.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Know I wish I could walk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just hop on the major.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
It's not too far, but
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's such a unique
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: too.
It's the most, um, diverse
church I've ever been a part of.
Both in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
because neighborhoods we're in,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
but also,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
um, socioeconomically.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: right by a
hospital in some big universities, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: we
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
doctors,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
and surgeons, and then
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
we also have folks from
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: neighborhood.
And just to see people, standing side
by side and worshiping together has
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I mean,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: been
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
it sounds a, it sounds a lot like us being
gathered around the throne, you know?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yes,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
It's, it's,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: is.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
As it's described in Revelation, yeah.
It's.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it is.
And I feel
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Like
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: do get this like
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
little touch of that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: there.
And
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So, so if I was, if I was gonna guess
what the name of the church was,
this, I would say, is it, is it First
Baptist Church in, in Cleveland?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: because
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
was the very first Baptist church.
Well, no,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: No,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
just, just because whenever I watch a
TV show and they talk about churches,
it's always like First Baptist Church.
Like that's just what it's called, that
there, where's the First Baptist Church?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: what?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
You know?
I agree with you.
And I'm an American.
Yeah.
And every time you go into, I'm like,
is this the First Baptist Church?
Yeah.
Or is that the First Baptist Church?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's too many of them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
it's called,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Scranton Road.
That's the road it's
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: 150 years.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Bible Church.
Yeah.
Nice.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
you know, maybe we were.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: first one.
I should look it up.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Who knows.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: look it up.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, that's, I mean, that sounds so,
yeah, like, it, it, it's beautiful.
You know, like just, just hearing
that kind of, um, oh yeah.
That description of, of the,
of the diversity, um, age, you
know, um, socio socioeconomic,
um, yeah, having your family.
That just sounds really, really lovely.
Um, yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
been a sweet, it's
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And so, um, tell us a little bit
about, so you, you, you get, you,
you got into youth ministry, um,
we call it youth ministry here.
You guys kind of vacillate
between student ministry and
youth ministry and whatever, but
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah.
But you, you, and so for us in,
in, in, in Australia student
ministry means university ministry.
That's sort of, um, you know, so people
kind of, um, going and, and pastoring
students, um, on a university campus.
But, so tell us like, how did
you, you know, how did you kind
of get into youth ministry?
Um, you know, like obviously went
to Moody Bible Institute, but like,
was, was that with a, with a, a
view to becoming a youth pastor?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Know,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that is such
a great question because it is one of
those, me, being in, in youth ministry for
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
even, you know
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: all of
these years I've been in, I'm 38.
I graduated when I was 22, you know,
so I've been in youth ministry for 16
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and,
it
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Was one of those
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: those
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
low
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: steps
I, I feel like, of obedience
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: like,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
What's the next step?
Mm,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the next step?
What's the next step?
Until the Lord just pulled me along
and like showed me where, where my
niche was in the kingdom of God.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
forever, as long as I can remember,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: being
a little kid till about a junior
senior in high school, I actually
wanted to go into nursing.
Um, and I actually wanted to
work in the operating room.
That
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
that was just always my life.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: dream, um, was
to be a nurse that worked in surgery.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um, and then when I
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: was a senior in
high school, I went to a Christian school,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and I had
a teacher that was, was teaching
Bible just all through high school.
That was just really
influential in my life.
And of the things that she would always
say is, um, Val, there's two things.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
when at will
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: last forever.
And that's people
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the word of God.
And so whatever you do in your
life, spend time investing in
the things that are eternal.
And you know, she was in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
no way
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: discouraging
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
me from mm-hmm.
We never even talked
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about that.
But
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
that just
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
itself deep inside of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I
loved working with people and I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I loved
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the study
of God's word and said, you know, in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
my 18-year-old.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I'll study this because
it's always gonna be an.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: for me to go
to nursing school, but this might be the
only chance I get to go to Bible school.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: lots of
people, you know, can do nursing
school later on in life as a second
career, whatever the case is.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
um, so that was kind of like,
what, like got my shoes on.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
My line of thinking
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: go to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
bible school,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
out of high school.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
the, again, the Lord has just
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
pushed me
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: In, you know,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
erection and,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
after step after step.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
and I'm like, oh,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: this
is, this is where I belong.
This is what my heart
is so passionate about.
Um, and really
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
thought I'd probably be
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
parachurch ministry Um, but really
grew a passion for the local
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: when I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
College.
Yeah.
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: just said
like, Lord, if you would be so kind,
um, could I do youth ministry in
the context of the local church?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so, so,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: over a decade.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so you, you thought that after
Barber College you were gonna
be doing Parachurch ministry?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
As in like, like what, what kinds,
, , val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
what kind, what kinds of things did you
have in mind for parachurch ministry?
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I thought, um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I dunno.
I dunno how big.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it is
in Australia, but I thought that
I might be working for there.
We have a couple big, para churchy
youth organizations like Youth for
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um, like Young
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
Um, and we have navigators.
It's a little bit more for
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
students, but that type of thing,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I thought that that would probably lead
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
where I would end
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
up.
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
quite frankly, there's a lot
more opportunities for women
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: those types
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Roles.
Yeah.
Um, which again, I was like
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
but I love the local
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: you
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Gimme an opportunity to serve there.
Yeah.
So it has just been such,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
a really, an amazing thing and such
a sweet thing to be able to do.
Yeah.
Um.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
You work specifically in a local church?
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
many years as I was able to.
So,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
I love that.
So 16 years in the local, in,
in local churches, a couple
of different local churches.
Um, and, and now, now interestingly,
you are kind of in Parachurch ministry.
Um, I know, I know.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: See,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
See back to where I started.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: No,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but so you, you, you're kind
of the founding director, I guess.
Is, is that a good, good
description of you, um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yes.
Yes.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
of Aspen Ministry?
Like what is, what's Aspen Ministry?
Tell, tell us about that.
Oh, man.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Oh man.
Well,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Aspen Ministry.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So I
did local church ministry, like I
said, full-time a little over 12
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
in the weeds of local church
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: love
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
that.
I always say like,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it's the weeds.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I love those.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Like
I love working with families.
I love building curriculum.
I love, um, watching students grow
and developing student leaders.
The whole, all taking trips
with kids, the whole thing.
I love it.
Um, in 2020.
Um, I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Left the church.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I was
at and I actually started working
for an organization that did
training and coaching of youth
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
kind, kind of to my point earlier,
um, this training organization
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and coaching
organization was like, you are a woman
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
been doing
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: time
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: mini youth
ministry in the church for over a decade.
Will you come coach other leaders?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so they invited me to come
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: their team.
So I joined them in 2020
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
on
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: middle of the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
the pandemic.
Yep.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, which
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
is a wild time.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
switch ministries
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
roles?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and everything
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Last time we caught up,
we, we bonded over that.
I, I, I started my
current, my current role,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yes.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
weeks before our, our
first sort of big lockdown.
Yeah.
It unbelievable wild.
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
it was a wild time.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um, I actually went
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: being
support based at that time.
Again, I didn't picture myself being.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
35 years old.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
raising personal support to do
ministry and that type of thing.
Um, but it was
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Kind of hilarious.
I'm like
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
is going to help support me
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
The pandemic.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: all this stuff.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but turns out
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
everyone was home and available to chat.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I had
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Zoom, call
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Zoom
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
call and
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: people just like
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
had time and
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
lavished, you know,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so much
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
just general.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: upon
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
So
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: was
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
able to start
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: role quickly.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
some of that ended up being a blessing.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
disguise as opposed to,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Hey, can we
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
we meet and talk about this?
Sure.
In, you know,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah.
I'll see you in March.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, so yeah, but it was such a wild time.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so then, I'm sorry, back to
the, so then I started doing
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
training and coaching
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
And I knew issues I having
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
in the local church.
I knew the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
issues.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I felt
like my students were having.
Um.
What the sticking points were, where
families are at, stuff like that.
I started doing coaching and then
I started talking to youth workers
all over the country, at small
churches, at big churches, at urban
churches, at um, rural churches.
Um, and I started hearing
a lot of themes and number
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I, one, I realized I wasn't crazy mm-hmm.
For having the problems I was having.
So that was a great realization.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Realized.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So, solidarity.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: alone.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Solidarity.
Yeah.
Yes.
Absolutely.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: know,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
You always need a couple of,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
to remind you you're
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but also
kept hearing the same things over
and over again from youth workers.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so what
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: matter who their
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
students,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: were.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
What were the, what were the
things that you were hearing?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah.
So a lot of what I was hearing
from them was something along the
lines of, Val, these students,
this next generation of kids are so
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And it feels
like what we have been doing in the
past, um, doesn't resonate with their
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
It's not like.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it's like
a plug that you're trying to plug in,
but it's just not like connecting.
And they say, how do we, what is going on
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
these kids and how do we get
the message of Jesus to them?
Can we, can you help
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
you know, and I'm going,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I don't, I don't know.
That's the same problem that I was having.
Yeah.
Like that I was being open also.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: over again also.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah..
It's such a strange thing when you, when
you sort of jump up that kind of, that
level where you, where you now have kind
of view of all these other churches and
people start asking you the questions, you
know, what, what's the answer to the, to
the questions that you yourself had been.
Having, you know, asking along
the way, and then all of a sudden,
now, now you, it's, it's a, it's
a double-edged thing, isn't it?
Because now, now you have to be the one
that can help facilitate the answer,
whether or not you give the answer,
but to facilitate the answer, at least,
you know, move towards an answer.
But the, the other thing is that
now you are, you are the person that
actually maybe has time and head
space to kind of think about some
of these things on a broader scale.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Absolutely.
Yes.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
privilege.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Well, that's
what I was gonna say and I just felt, you
know, like I exactly like you're saying,
I just had the privilege to say, I know
you are running a ministry day in and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I know you
have to prepare your sermon for Wednesday
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I know
you have parents that are meeting
with you with Kids in crisis.
I know all of these different things.
I know the struggle of that.
Let, um, let me work
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
Let me work on this.
I'll get
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I, because
we, you're right, we need to figure
this out and we need to bind together
as God's people and, see what we can do.
And so it was just such a privilege to
get to hear so many people's different
stories be entrusted with those
and then say, uh, but it's weighty
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: weighty.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and then to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Say, okay.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
you know, before the Lord,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
is my peace in this?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Lord, you've
entrusted me with these stories and
experiences of your people who are
trying to do ministry well before
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
is there a way that I can help them,
uh, with the position that I have
with the, the big picture that I have
right now, with the time that I have?
What's my role in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and truly
that's where, uh, the Aspen Ministry idea
for it and some of our big projects that
we're gonna talk about really came from,
You know, it's not really a fancy answer.
It was just, you know, praying about
like, Lord, what is my peace in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
are you asking me to do?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And, um,
then him just opening the right doors
at the right time and saying, okay,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I don't,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: if this is
exactly the solution, but let's try
something and we'll then we'll try
something else and we'll try something
else and we'll see what the Lord does.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Can we, can we dig into, so just, um, you
know, you were, um, you were talking with
people and they were saying this current
generation of teenagers is different.
The ministry we've been doing,
um, forever is now not kind
of connecting in the same way.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Mm-hmm.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
uh, and, and that, that question is one of
the things that have prompted you to, to
start Aspen Ministry, which we'll hear a
little bit more about in a, in a second.
But like, what do you, do you have a
sense of what the differences were?
That, you know, what, what other
differences that you guys were all
experiencing, um, in these young people?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah.
one of the things that, as I,
well, well, I'll never forget this.
Let me, I'll give this
anecdote and then I'll kind of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Get into,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
what I to reveal.
But I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I remember
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: sitting
with a woman who was in youth
ministry and I was doing a ministry
diagnostic with her as part of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
the coaching process.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And
I remember I spent like an
hour and 45 minutes with her.
We're going through and she is just really
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Telling mm-hmm.
In, you know, every question I'm asking.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
this, this, this,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
you know, she's not.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: outta the park.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: wait, that's an
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
American.
Yeah.
We understand it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've, we've,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: okay?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
okay.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: just checking.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because you're doing great, because you
guys, you guys have baseball where you
knock it out of the park, and we have
cricket where you hit a six, and that's
the same, you get six runs for, you
know, for knocking it out of the park.
So it, it resonates.
And also we've, we've, we've, we've
watched enough American TV and movies.
Yeah.
No, no.
We, no,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I love it.
I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
not enough baseball, but
just, but just TV and movies.
So it's fun.
Listen,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: baseball
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
is confusing.
Yeah.
It's such aing sport.
It's a lovely,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
American sport, but it
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: confusing.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
But you guys, she was, she
was knocking out of the park.
Great.
Yeah.
Outta
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it outta
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
the park.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
And, uh,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: we get to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
the very end.
And honestly, I'm on the other side,
you know, in my head I'm going out.
I'm,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: gonna
need to coach this lady at all.
Like,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I don't even know what I.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: offer her
because, you know, they're doing
great she gets to the very end.
And I just asked her, I was like,
Hey, um, is there anything else that
you wanna talk about that we didn't
cover on your mind or on your heart?
And she just like, kind of puts her
head down she goes, can you teach us
how to reach high school students?
Because I just don't.
Feel like we are meeting
them where they are.
And it's so stuck with me that, again,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: of the methods
I would give just a perfect score
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and not, not,
you know, pizza party and games, youth
ministry, like they were doing amazing
youth ministry, small groups studying
God's word, all the right things, had such
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
ministry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
And she was just, you know,
saying, how do we reach these
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah, because you're, you're looking
at her results in inver commas and,
um, and you are kind of going, you are
reaching, you know, like you're doing
everything, but she's, she's got this,
this kind of heart, this question from
the heart, you know, where, how do
I do this because it's not working.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: do,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
and at the same time, so, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I'm doing,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
Research in the background.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: stuff
about the next generation, both from
Christian sources and researchers,
and there's a couple excellent ones,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Youth Institute
that do great work, and then also some
secular researchers and just saying,
okay, where are these students at?
of the most amazing things that
I came across, was, I actually go
through this kind of whole nerd
tangent explaining this in one of my
trainings, but I'll just give kind of
the very, very short cliff notes of it.
But basically they say that in the
generational differences, there's
usually a lot of overlap between each
generational block, but they say that
there's hardly any overlap in like
shared experiences and technology and
all the kind of markers they look for
between the millennial generation,
which is what I'm in, and then Gen Z,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: they said
that's almost like there's this true gap.
There's no more overlap.
And they said that right in the middle of
that it is like there was an earthquake
that it's like there's a earthquake
of Western culture going on right
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and that
the, if you could draw a fault line, it
would be between the millennials and Gen
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And they
say the major reason for that, just
as the printing press was what, you
know, really changed Western culture
from the pre-modern era to the modern
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: That the
internet and more specifically the iPhone
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: hitting market
saturation, just caused this massive
earthquake where all of a sudden the way
that people have information, the way
they process information, just as people
and just as they engage in the world
around them, is so different, that it's,
a larger gap than a generational gap
that we've seen at least here in America.
Um, and it's actually more akin to a true
cultural gap than a generational gap.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Interesting.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: so this
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So, so you're saying, you're saying the
gap, the gap between Gen Millennials
and Gen Z, gen Z, sorry, um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I'm with you.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
um, is more akin to two people living in
wildly different countries than it is to
two kind of generational, two different
generations living in the same country,
or the same culture kind of thing.
Yeah.
Wow.
Now, obviously
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
have some cultures that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
are
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: way
vastly different from each
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
You know,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: like Australia
and the US we're, we are different
cultures as we've even been, you
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
Joking.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about,
there's some significant cultural
differences, but obviously it's very
different than, you know, from Sri
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: or from,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So there's obviously
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: big gaps in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
even.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: differences.
Correct.
Um, but they're saying like, as far as
markers and how those things are looked
at from a sociologist perspective,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
That
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: enough
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
there's,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that it
actually falls into a, a cultural
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
it's not just, um, behaviors,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Hm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: ways of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: their
worldview and the way they process
information, the world around
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
categorically different.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
so even for us youth workers say,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
cross-cultural ministry.
Mm-hmm.
It's
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: not
change the colors, change the font,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
updated.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it,
and keep doing business as usual.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
comics ends.
Right, right.
Exactly.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: right.
Exactly.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Start use the cool font.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
year, whatever just came
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, but it
actually is more like doing cross-cultural
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Interesting.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
ever has been before.
And when we approach it, I, this
has always been convicting to me.
It's still convicting to me.
Um, when I travel to another culture,
I have so much compassion for
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
I think it's interesting.
I think it's fascinating.
I think it's beautiful to see how
other people live and process in the
way that they exist in the world.
And,
to even change my thinking about the
next generation, to not just be annoyed
and frustrated at them, but to approach
the way that they live in the world
with that level of curiosity interest.
to say, okay, just as if I'm overseas
and I'm having a conversation with
somebody and the, and Jesus comes
up to say, how can I talk about this
in a way that they will understand?
To take that same care as we're
talking to young people and
say, okay, hang on a second.
How can I talk about this in a way
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: kid is gonna
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
because it's really, it's really easy.
I mean, as you're talking there,
you know, it, you're just making me
think it's really easy to, to kind
of, with young people to go, oh,
because, because we don't necessarily
see that cultural gap, right?
Like we, we kind of, you
know, to the extent that the
researchers are saying exists.
We see, well, this is my, you know, for,
for me, I've got four kids, you know,
these are my kids who are, you know,
there's a cultural similarity and, you
know, oh, why don't, why won't you just
understand or why are you so frustrating?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: like
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Right?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yeah.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We watch some of the same TV shows, all
the things, all of those sorts of things.
Um, but it sounds like, you know, what
you're saying is maybe if at, at a, at
a broad scale level and in, in churches
and as we think about youth ministry, if
we brought a little bit more of the kind
of care and compassion and thoughtfulness
and, um, you know, uh, yeah, like, I guess
the contextualization that we, that we
do when we think about other cultures.
I remember, I remember traveling around
Indonesia, um, went on a surfing holiday
and just being like, oh, this is amazing.
And just being so keen to talk and
to learn and to find out about, you
know, why, oh, why are you doing that?
And why, why this, and all this.
Um, but you're saying, let, let's apply.
Or I, I guess you're asking the
question, why don't we kind of, um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: correct,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Interesting.
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: us
to approach it with, with more
curiosity than frustration.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: confess.
Frustration
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
The, the sort of anxiety that,
that, that comes along with that.
And so, I mean, this is obviously
deeply connected to as asthma
ministry and why that exists.
Um, tell us a little bit more about,
you know, what's the connection?
How did you, how did you then end
up doing what you're doing now?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yes, yes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for bringing
us back to ASAM ministry.
So I'm thinking about all of these
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and just
praying, Lord, how do we, how do we
provide tools to help bring this next
generation and the church together?
How do we, you know, start to just pull
them a little bit closer to give a little
bit of better understanding between
both of them, because just believe so
deeply as with any type of diversity,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
Just like my church, you know?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: type of
diversity, um, brings out different,
they're, they're all needed for
us to get this full picture of
who God is and how he's working
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm, mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And every
single person in their seat, they bring
something to the body of Christ that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Better for him.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: we're stronger
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And so I
think, okay, how do we, how do we nurture
that type of, um, understanding and
even need for each other in the body of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and, um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: started
thinking about this project.
Um, it's the first
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
project
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
of Aspen Ministry,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
is called
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: 10,000
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
The other things
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: kind
of came across in my study was,
uh, a researcher, Kara Powell,
who's at a Fuller Youth Institute.
She said that oftentimes when she would
do interviews with young people, she
would often hear them say some sort of
sentiment of, I wish the church would
answer the questions I'm actually asking.
So then understanding that, okay,
if my youth leaders that I'm working
with are feeling a disconnect.
And the students are saying, I wish
the church would answer the questions.
I'm actually asking we have this
felt need on both sides, how do
we, um, how do we help solve that?
How do we help work towards
bringing unity there?
So, I started Aspen Ministry
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: we
do ministry on both sides.
Both sides of that, uh, that,
that, that chasm between them.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So you're working with both the,
both the, the people that are, that
are, um, involved in ministry with
students, but you're also doing,
working directly with students as well.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
correct, correct.
And letting the, the two
projects we do for either.
For either group, kind of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: into
each other, have the symbiotic
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
with each other and bring them
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Together.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So
with the students, we have
this project called 10,000
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
We'd
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I would love,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
love talk more about
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about it.
It's just like I, it's such a fun
project to get to be a part of.
But, um, we're trying to
collect 10,000 literal
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Hmm.
From
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: students in
their own words about God, faith, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Um.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and so we
have about 3,600 questions right now
that we've collected in a little over.
The last year.
and we are, we always answer some
of those questions on the spot.
So we'll go to all types of different
environments, um, to collect
Stu to collect those questions.
Um, we answer some of them on the spot,
and then the rest we take with us to kind
of be in this big data set that we're
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and then we
actually are coming out, we're recording
right now the first season of podcasts
to answer questions and, um, have a
whole list of questions and, and video
that kids are gonna be able to click on,
have a question, click on the question
and see a short, uh, video answer to it.
So we're
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
that right now?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: for
students, and that's some of my
favorite stuff that we get to do.
Um, and then also on the, on the
church side, on the adult side, um, I
do a number of workshops at churches.
Um, one is called the Anatomy of a
Question, and we actually take questions
that we've collected from students.
And every participant in the room
gets one, and then they break up into
small groups of three and they pick
one question they're gonna work on.
always say that it's like a lab
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and
where you have experiments that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
you run and then you have
to write a lab report.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So we run some
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Experiments on
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
question, um, about what are the
presuppositions in that question?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
use your,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Why might
a student be asking that question?
Um, what are the values the student
betrays in how they ask that question,
whether they're values that we would
say agree with the kingdom of God or
values that are of the kingdom of this
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, but
what are the values that are in it?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
What are different
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: We
could answer it biblically.
All types of different, you know,
little experiments we've run on that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
direction.
Yeah.
Um, and
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: we
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
do it all together.
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And talk
about how do we actually engage in
a conversation with that student.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
For
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the
report part of it is kind of
writing your own case study, of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
having
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: with
that student and questions back
and forth and how we address it
biblically and all that kind of stuff.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
conversation.
So
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: so
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
it's a fun little workshop.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
we do for, for youth
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Workers for
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: pastors, for
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
parents.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
volunteers, grandparents.
I love when grandparents show up.
It's just the sweetest thing.
teachers, that type of thing.
And,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um, also do
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: other
workshops additionally about how do we
create, um, a question asking culture
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
in our
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
what does that look
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: those types
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
just,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: types of things.
So there's church side training,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yep.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: then
there's also just listening
to the questions of students.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, so the, the, I guess the two
projects that you've got is the
10,000 questions project, which
is, you know, collecting questions.
And, and the way that you do that
is you go around to different,
um, youth ministries and you, and
you run question nights, right?
And, um, and so you'll answer some of the
questions and then collect, and you'll,
but you'll collect those questions,
chuck 'em in a big data set, and think
about what, what, what are the types of
questions that young people are asking?
What does that tell us about who they are?
What can it tell us about how we
might approach youth ministry?
All that sort of stuff.
And then the second project is that
sort of, I guess, a training project
where you are training youth pastors,
youth leaders, parents, grandparents,
whoever's interested, whoever
might be, um, presumably teachers
sometimes are, are interested as well.
Um, um, and I mean, it occurs to me like
just putting, putting together some of,
some of what you were saying before that
almost like the heart of your project is.
Um, is curiosity in a sense, isn't it,
like trying in the, in the sense of
trying to bridge the gap between the
young people themselves and the, the
churches that deeply wanna disciple
these young people so, so well, and,
and, and do a great job for the kingdom,
but it's the, the, the thing that, that,
um, bridges the gap is that curiosity
piece and probably on both sides, but
particularly thinking about curiosity of,
of the church to young people themselves.
Is that a fair, a fair
way of describing Uh, yes.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: When
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
We have, we have, uh, four core values.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but
one of them is genuine curiosity,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Because I think
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: you're
right, it applies to both sides.
We are inviting the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
students
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: to be curious,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: know, and to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Ask their questions,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: in a
way that is genuinely curious.
Not trying to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
put it on.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Anything.
And same with the adults.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And
knowing that as followers of Jesus,
like we have nothing to be afraid
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
the go, the gospel, the Yeah, yeah.
The go, I mean the go.
That's, that's right.
And the gospel is a coherent worldview.
Like, it, like it, it does
it, it God can withstand every
question that any of us will ask.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Love that.
Love that.
So, I mean, so in, so interesting,
wonderful to hear the, the kind of the
origin story of how that, that came about
and, and what the ministry's all about.
Um, I'm wondering, you know, I'm so
interested, and I know it's early days,
3,600 in, you know, as, as you're on
your way to 10,000 and maybe it'll
become 20 and 20,000 or whatever, but
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Who knows?
Who knows?
We hope
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
What, what are some of the things
that you're seeing as you collect
these questions along the way?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah.
Well one of the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Really?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: things
about this project too has been,
um, I really have, I've pitched it
wide to people in terms of, hey,
if you have students, they qualify
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: involved in this
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um,
students between the age of 11 and 19.
Um, and so we actually have collected
questions, not just from youth groups,
but it was really important to me, um,
to try to get a diverse sampling of
not just kids that were in Christian
environments and Christian spaces, you
know, we don't know who of them are
actual, you know, committed followers
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but from
Christian spaces and also from
more, um, non-Christian spaces,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So give,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
school programs, et
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
So give us some examples of,
of some of those non-Christian
spaces that you've been running.
These thing, these things in.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: oh man.
Well, one of my, one of my favorites,
um, just the Lord opened some doors
for us to be able to go into, um,
our juvenile detention centers.
Here in
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
which is the state that I'm in.
Um, and so we actually have gone in
to a couple different facilities,
both boys and girls, um, and been
able to sit with and hear the
questions of incarcerated teenagers.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Wow.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and those
have just been some really sobering times.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
the, the women's facility, I,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I'm serious.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I say it
probably took me like three days
to recover from being in there
and listening to these girls'
questions and looking 'em in the
eye and talking to them about Jesus.
Just beautiful.
Um, and also we've done, um, and
Santa Fe, which is in New Mexico,
which is further out west, um, I
have some partners out there that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I was
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: to go
and spend a couple days there and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
actually.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: in
a public school classroom.
Um, and they do, some public schools
do character classes that are just in
partnership with community development
organizations and that type of thing.
Um, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So I was to go in one
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: one of those
programs and just be, I think I did seven
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
or eight.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: of class.
I saw over a hundred students
in the public school.
And we talked about the importance of
questions in all of our relationships.
but then what do we do with our hard
questions about God, faith in life?
What do we do with those and what
types of questions do you guys have?
Rate 'em on a little index
card and pass it, you know,
and I'll come and collect them.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um, I also, when I,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: down there,
I never had this experience before,
but I got to speak to a group of 60
high school boys, boys only, that were
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
on the football team mm-hmm.
American football team.
Mm-hmm.
So gotta
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
spend an evening with them and
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: hear their
questions and answer some of them.
It
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
so Cool.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: to be
with all, to be with all those boys.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Since I was getting up, ready to go.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
up, I'm like, Lord, you know,
this is not my normal space.
So you're gonna have to help me here.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but just had a
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Wonderful time.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: with
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So a lot of the questions, you know.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: like I said,
it's just really important to me, to,
to go wide with the types of students,
um, and just say, Hey, any kid, we
wanna hear what's on your heart.
We wanna hear what's, what is, uh,
what rattles around in your head
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: as God
and life and what you're asking.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and so,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
And the
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
I think have just been, uh,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
trend, so
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
and I think so, so
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
come out of that.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Well walk, walk us through some
of those things because you know
that, that diversity of, of kind
of responses that are collected or
questions that are collected from
all sorts of different places.
So keen to hear what are the trends
that you are, that you are, you
know, um, identifying through,
through the work you're doing.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, like we said, we're about
a third of the way through our big
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Project,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
and we're hoping to actually
finish it in this calendar year.
We'll see, we'll
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
see how close we get.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
But we're getting ready to
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
release, like kind of the first
wave of, of, uh, questions
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
percentages and categories and
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that kind
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
all
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So, so I'm
excited about that, but I'll give
you guys a little, I'll give you
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
sneak peak.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: snapshot of it.
Yeah, a little sneak peek of it.
Um, but
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
We
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
about, I, I think it's 42% right
now of questions fall into,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
have, uh, the, what
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: what
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I call the existential.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
these are the big
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about life,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
about perfect
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
about, um, salvation, about
God, our relationship with him.
That all falls into the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
ential.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: category.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
in some ways that category, what what
you, what you mean by existential is just
the thing, the things that really, really
matter or like, is that, is that right?
Yes,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yes,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Just the, the big questions about
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
life.
Yeah.
Um, the second category though is ex
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: questions.
The second one is life and living.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
So these Ah, yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
A very
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
questions, the different categories.
You
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
proud I'll talk about
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
this data more, but,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: sexuality,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
relationships, you know, those types of
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: questions that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
things that
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
Alcohol, can I swear?
All
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
kinds of,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
of behavioral questions.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: the
existential are not really the, like,
how should I live my life questions,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about,
um, purpose and meaning and
relationship with God and that type of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yep, yep.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
then the very last category, I
only have three major categories,
um, but the last one is Bible
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Questions.
Yeah.
So that's not our, our bread and butter.
Yeah.
But definitely students ask those
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
and we don't turn those away.
But
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
questions
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
more heavily.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
directly to do with
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
A particular, a particular part of the
Bible or about the Bible itself, or, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Often, presumably quite
specific questions.
Yes.
I was gonna say, so definitely
I have one category that, uh,
they're, they all have a three.
Mm-hmm.
Question gets a, mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
Um, but the first one
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
is, uh,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: answerable Bible
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, sure.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
disciples did Jesus
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
That's a,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: 3.1.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I answer that one for you right now.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
But in the
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: existential
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
category, we have
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
42% of our questions
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
in
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
category.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and 40,
are in the life and living category.
Um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
and then just kind of their,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
6% is in the Bible questions
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
and I just think
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: amazing.
You know, people are always asking
like, oh, I bet these kids wanna know.
Um, you know, I bet
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
that they wanna know about sexuality.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: bet they
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
They wanna know about
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
know, mental health.
I bet they wanna know
about all these things.
Um, and it,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
the first just kind
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: off
the cuff observation is no 42%,
almost half of these questions,
are about big questions about life,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
About existence,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
right?
Yeah.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
what it, so,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
what it means to be human.
And
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
in that category,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
just the, the,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
salvation and like, how am I saved,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: can a person be
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um, is actually
the highest section in that category.
So just the question of salvation.
I have over 500 specific
questions about that.
and that's just been really
compelling to me, um, because.
We have those types of questions that
reveal that students really do not
understand, or at least they have a lot
of questions about, about the gospel,
about sin, about, um, why they need
rescue, all these types of things.
And again, this is coming from both
both students that are within the
Christian community and outside
of the Christian community are
asking these types of questions.
It's not like they were heavily
weighted, like, oh, all the non-Christian
kids are asking about sin and all.
Like, no, no, no, no.
pretty evenly matched.
And
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Would just.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: say, you
know, with that, and I've actually
talked to a number of youth workers
about like, what do you think this is?
And um, of them have said, and I think
that they're right on, is, you know, we're
in such a soundbite culture and we like to
give, uh, even the message of salvation,
you know, at the end of our lesson.
Or in the three minute wrap up,
or, you know, even if we spend a
whole, you know, 20 minutes of the
talk that night talking about, you
know, like what, what the gospel is,
what the message of salvation is.
Um, a lot of students
truly don't understand.
It's like they don't have all the pieces.
And it was just so compelling to me
to say, okay, are we, we are sharing
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
The.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: with students,
but are we sharing the full gospel
in a way that makes sense to them?
And where all the pieces of the story
they can put in order and understand,
uh, why, why it has to be that way?
Why did, why did Jesus have to die?
Why does sin matter so much?
Why these types of questions that I just
think, man, do we, in our effort to share
the gospel so often, which is a beautiful.
Beautiful desire, right?
To, to often share the gospel.
Um, are we sharing it in a full
enough way that students really
understand what the message is
and how the pieces fit together?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Uh, which I
just think is an interesting, I, it's
an interesting challenge to me even.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Yeah That's really fascinating.
I mean, you talked about that sort of
idea of a soundbite culture, um, that, you
know, like, here's, here's a sentence or
two to kind of encapsulate the message.
But, but I guess the, the downside of
that, not, not that that's bad in, in
and of itself, like having kind of.
I guess pegs to, to hang your hat, but the
idea of, um, of not over, over a period
of time, you know, um, be able to kind
of build that into a really significant
and coherent worldview in a sense.
And to be able to kind of go, well, what,
what is the gospel and why does it matter?
And how does it shape me?
And, you know, what does
it mean for this and that?
And, um, and who is God and how,
all these sorts of things that, I
mean, in some ways it, it, it makes
me think, um, of the importance
of kind of a systematic theology.
Not that you necessarily.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
You might not necessarily kind of
call it that, um, as you're teaching
it, although maybe, maybe you
would depend on it, but the idea of
kind of going, you know, yes, yes.
We have a message for today, but we're,
we're building a coherent whole here.
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yes.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
you know, as young people, you
know, and I, I'm thinking a lot
about sort of faith retention.
That's, that's sort of the world
that I live in at the moment.
I can, and I can, you know, I'm, I'm
deep at the moment in a paper I'm
writing about, um, faith retention
and social constructivism, which is,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yes,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
is fascinating.
We'll, we'll have to have a
conversation about it at some point.
But, um, but just that, that
idea of world construction.
And, you know, the, the idea of kind of
building a worldview and that, that has
to be coherent enough in the eyes of the
young person themself or in the kind of
thoughts of the young person themself
to be able to then meet the demands
of life whatev whatever they may be.
So the questions of sexuality or gender
or whatever, like this gospel kind of
world that we're, that we're kind of
teaching, um, it has to be coherent
enough to be able to withstand those
questions and answer those questions,
or at least satisfy a young person that
if there isn't an answer that, that, you
know, that's forthcoming right now that
God has this under control because this,
my worldview is robust enough and I've
tested it enough times that I'm confident
that it will be okay kind of thing.
Um, it's, it's, it's
really, really fascinating.
The other thing that kind of came to
mind and, and um, I'd love to hear
your thoughts on this is, um, uh,
you know, with a soundbite, culture,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Mm-hmm.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
guess potentially comes a culture that is.
I guess lacking in meaning, or at least,
um, you know, potentially a culture that
kind of deconstructs meaning and doesn't
kind of delve into the depths of things.
Is, is that kind of what you
are, you're getting at as well?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah,
I, I would, I would absolutely say
yes, that that affects it a ton.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: That,
you know, we do just have,
we give these short messages.
But I mean, as we all know, like
the message of Jesus is deep.
It's a deep message
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
And young people are craving
depth by the sound of things.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yes.
And you know, I think that many of
us, you know, as youth workers, it's
like, okay, we can spend, you know,
four years with our high school
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: We want them to
walk away and we'll do, you know, we'll
do fun trips and we'll go and serve.
We'll serve and we'll do worship,
and we'll do this, and we'll do that.
But, you know, my heart just aches
for like, if I get one thing right.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I want
these kids to know the gospel.
I want them to know the story
of the gospel so that even
they can choose to it or not.
But I want them to understand what the
message of Jesus is clearly, and you
know, and, and to understand it fully.
And like you said, to understand
the, the ramifications of
that for then how they live.
But that actually, goes so well
into like the second observation.
The second biggest question in that
category that I get is, um, questions
about the character of God, about who
is God, who, who's the person of God?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
The next
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
one is the problem of pain.
And those
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
are kind
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: three
clear winners in that category.
I think I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
of,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
maybe or 11 categories in that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: subcategories.
The clear winners are salvation.
Who is God?
is his character like?
And then what do I do with my pain?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And if
we can address those three things
at the heart level for a kid
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: so that they
know what is, what is the, the story
of redemption, how do I fit into it?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
is this God that we worship?
What is he like?
Can I trust him I trust him so much
that even when I am in pain, I know,
I, I, it can make some sort of sense
to me because I trust God that much.
Um, what we all, I mean,
that's what we all like, that's
enough for all of us, right.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it
really deals with the, some
of the deepest things of life.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
And we, we will get into
this later, I'm sure.
But, but just this, this idea, you know,
I mean, and, and you've talked about
kind of digging into the questions that
are being asked and that kind of thing.
Like, you know, what's,
what's really being asked?
You know, why might someone ask
this, this kind of question.
Um, like we can give coherent answers.
Um.
But it's, it's more than just the
answer over a period of time that will
build that, that kind of worldview
and that trust and that, and you
know, that, that deep trust in God.
It's, it's also the way
in which we answer, right?
Like, is that right?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Correct.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, because, you know, tell, I
tell parents this and stuff too, and
leaders when I do training, but I'm
like, a student doesn't need to talk
to you to find an answer to their
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Question, right?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
They can pull out their
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: and
find an answer to their question.
They wanna know your answer
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: They
wanna know what mom thinks.
They wanna know what dad
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: know
what their favorite teacher thinks.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um, what
the person they trust at church
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: because they
wanna see if what you're saying makes
sense with how you're living your life.
If it works, not just the
information, but does it
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And that, I mean, um, that, you know,
Christian Smith and Amy are damn chicks
book, um, handing Down the Faith.
Um, it, it talks about the, um, you
know, the number one correlation
to, to, um, young people taking
up the faith of their parents is
conversations about God at home.
And their, their, their guess as to
why that's the case is because it does,
it does kind of show the Christian
faith and not to be, not just be a
Sunday thing, but an integrated thing.
You know, it, there's a matchup between
what we do by going to church on a
Sunday, but then also the lived life.
And so I'm talking about God as I, as
I go to soccer, or I'm, I'm talking
about God as we do the dishes, or I'm
talking about God as I think about
the relationship that that's breaking
down at school or whatever, whatever.
But there's that sort of integration
of the gospel into life and that
that's kind of, that's in some
ways what you're getting at.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
. val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I was just gonna
say, one of the things that I've heard
about the next generation is, previous
generations were asking is God real?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And
this generation is asking, is God
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Good.
Mm
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And I think that
that makes so much sense, like that is
borne out so much in this project thus far
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: of even
that many questions that are asking,
um, about the, the character of God.
Who is he?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: don't even,
I do not have that many questions.
I, I should have looked it up for this,
but I do not have that many questions
about like, how do we prove the existence
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Interesting.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: many,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
far more about who is
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: kind
of God I would wanna follow.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
the problem of pain, is he good?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Because
if he's good, I wanna follow him
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
He's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I, if I, if I follow him, how do I
reconcile the, the existence of, of pain?
Doesn't that mean, doesn't
that mean potentially that
he's not good kind of thing?
And, um, yeah.
So people trying to reconcile, young
people trying to reconcile, you
know, who God is with, with Yeah.
Is he good?
Is he someone that I actually,
actually do wanna follow?
And, and that, that, you know, like
one of, one of the things I, I often
talk about is this idea of, you
know, um, young people often ask,
you know, do I have to hate my gay
friends or do I have to hate my trans
friends if I'm gonna be a Christian?
And that's, that's again, that's
sort of like, um, is God good?
You know, that that's, that's the
thing that's behind that as well.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yes.
Oh, absolutely.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: yeah,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Hey, Val, what other
things are you saying?
Oh, okay.
So
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: we go.
In the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
life and living.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: category, um,
the top question, would you like to take
a guess what the top questions are about?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
It's okay if you get it
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
okay.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: living,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Um, alluded to it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What does,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
does God think about gay
people and trans people?
Yes.
Here we go.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: A
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yep.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So
sexuality, of course, is our
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
Uh, shocker to nobody.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
That's good.
We're glad that one we're not.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: shocked.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: but number
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
But number two.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: um,
is how do we draw closer to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Mm.
Interesting.
Beautiful.
Mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that's
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Number,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: two, and
again, not just from Christian students.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
but what,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: what do
you have to do to draw closer to God?
Um, I get this one a lot, but just
how do you know if God is speaking to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: How do you
know how to listen to the voice of God?
Just questions like that.
How do you draw closer to God?
and then the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
The third one is,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: So,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
and
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: you know,
extending beyond, um, just sexuality, but
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
friendships.
Yeah.
Parents.
Yeah.
You all kinds of stuff like that.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Then I think that this one
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: one
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
taught me a little bit by frequent.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
but the frequency,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I just didn't deny, um,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: was different.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
was different.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: differences,
hundreds of questions about
this, of like, why do you know?
Some Christians believe this and some
Christians believe this, and, um,
Catholics believe this, and what's
the difference between this and this?
Lots of questions about that, you
know, that I think is just really,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I think that's, that's more of,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: easy-ish
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: But I
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
I think that a lot of
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: students,
again, in the, in the world
where Christianity can be so.
polarizing in, in the world in
which we live, saying like, if these
people believe similar to these
people, why do they not get along?
Why are there so many different
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm-hmm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
Um, and that type of thing.
So that's an interesting one.
And then questions about the Bible.
How do you read the Bible?
How do you study the Bible?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
And
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: always
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
questions about church.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: They'll
always be questions about why,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Why do we go to church?
What do we do?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: at church?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
to be, you have to be a, do you have
to go to church to be a Christian?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Correct.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
You know those questions?
Yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: of questions.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah.
About
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about the
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
how do you.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: read it,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: And,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
in some, in some ways, some of those,
like, you know, do you have to, do you
have to go to church to be a Christian?
That's, in some ways, that's a
belonging question, isn't it?
Or, or it, it might be, you know,
it might, might not be, it might be
totally, you know, it might be entirely
theological, but that kind of, you
know, I wanna be a Christian, but
I don't, I don't feel like I belong
at church, so why do I have to go?
Kind of thing, potentially.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
belonging, no doubt.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
So,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Um, and
then in, in that last category, I
just think this one is sweet too.
And so, you know, leaders take
this for what it's worth, but
lots of questions about heaven,
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: lots of
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
mm mm.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: about
heaven and what it'll be like and
what we'll experience there, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223:
beautiful to me to
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: from kids about
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: those are,
those are some of the highlights
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Val, like if, you know, it's
really good to hear those trends.
Um, if you could say just a couple
of things to kind of people that are,
that are doing youth ministry, and
I, I, I wanna make an assumption,
there will be some things that are,
that, that translate perfectly across
the ocean to Australia and some
things that won't, but let, let's,
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: it won't.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
yeah.
Yeah.
But let's, let's, um, you know, like
if you could say anything to, to
youth workers and youth volunteers
and all that sort of stuff, um,
that are doing ministry in local
churches and other places as well.
Um, what, what would be the, the big
ticket things that you'd, you'd wanna
say to the church or to, to people
that are working with young people?
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: Yeah.
Uh, that's, so, it's good.
You know, it's the same thing that like,
I would say to myself still now and what I
remind myself of, um, whenever I'm sitting
with students or friends or whatever
and just talking about hard things.
But, um,
to try to take the time to really
understand what the student is asking.
Don't assume that you understand their
question right away, because they may
even be using words differently, ideas
differently, whatever the case is.
They have different life experiences.
Um, one of my, there's an
apologist that I love to listen to.
His name's Abdu Murray, but
he often says, we don't answer
questions, we answer people.
And I think that's so profound because
we don't just wanna take a kid's
question and slap an answer on it.
What we wanna do is address whatever
is going on in the heart of that
student and try to show them the
truth and the goodness of Jesus.
But oftentimes it just takes us, it
takes me, um, being patient enough
not assuming that I know right away what
the kid is asking, but to really do the
work, to dig into the initial question,
um, and really try to understand what
the, what the heart issue is, what the,
what the hangup is for that student so
that we can speak truth in Jesus to them.
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: lot of
times that's, a lot of times we
don't get that the first run through.
You know, a lot of times it takes
a little bit of work to get there.
Um, and so that's the number one thing
that I would say is when kids really,
you know, crack their heart open and
are willing to ask harder questions
to make sure that we really understand
what they're asking before we start.
Addressing it and why?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Which really comes to the, to the
heart of why you started Aspen
Ministry and why you're doing the,
this project, this, this kind of, you
know, this idea of genuine curiosity.
Um, because we care about, we
care about the people that are
in front of our, our faces.
It's, it's not just that we're, we
want to kind of tick off an answer,
um, because, you know, like, we
actually care what, what's going on
for the person behind the question.
And so addressing that,
that's such a helpful quote.
Like, we don't answer
questions, we answer people.
I love that.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: that great?
effectiveministrypodcast-host523_1_07-11-2025_104228:
Yeah.
I.
val-_1_07-10-2025_204223: I know.