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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football. With firsthand experience in one of the most punishing sports, Paul shares stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
This is the Head Rush Podcast with Paul Frase.
Welcome to the Head Rush Podcast. I'm Paul Frase, and I played 11 years in the NFL. And at the Head Rush Podcast, we talk about everything related t- to brain trauma and brain health and wellness. We focus on traumatic brain injuries sustained through repeated head impacts, RHI, and reple- repeated blast exposure, RBE, for our men and women who serve in the armed forces. And we discuss chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE. And we cover how brain injuries can and will cause mental health issues such as depression, addiction, lack of executive function, memory loss, even suicidal ideation, as well as degenerative neurological issues. Our mantra is how to cope and find hope, and we focus our energy on finding therapies and sharing hope through education and by raising awareness. And please like, subscribe, and share, if you will. It will help us reach our goal of, uh, helping people suffering with traumatic brain injury. Our guest today, she is no stranger to he- to the Head Rush Podcast, is Dr. Maizelle DeMaio. And, uh, this Dr. DeMaio is the medical director of the Paradise Behavioral Health located in Punta Gorda, Florida. Dr. Ma- DeMaio is cer- certified by the Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, as well as the American Board of Addiction Medicine. Her primary areas of expertise are addiction medicine, depression, and anxiety. And I'm sure we could add, uh, many more things to that, Dr. DeMaio. But, uh, she also focuses on precision, precision psychiatry, and you're... we're gonna go deep into that shortly, as well as integrative holistic psychiatry, lifesty- style management, traumatic brain injury, and neuroendocron- chronology and TMS. Dr. DeMeo- De- DeMaio is also the creator of the Brai- BrainWell Program. Welcome back,
Dr. DeMaio. How are you doing? It's awesome to see you.
Uh, happy holidays, right?
Yes. Yes, yes.
Yeah. Um, yeah, thanks again for having me back because I'm really excited about showing this. I think I mentioned a little bit of it in the beginning of the year that, you know, stay tuned. It's coming. I'm not saying it's ready for the mass, um,
out there-
Production
... but, you know, I would like to just give a little bit of a, you know, sneak peek of what, um, we've come up together in order to really... Um, I, I think the challenge was, how do I get this complicated regimen down to being as easy and simplistic for my patients? Especially the ones who are pro athletes who struggle with cognitive impairment, and I try to tell them, "Take 20 supplements and do this and that." And, um, they're not gonna get it -
Mm-hmm
... in black and white. So, um, with the help of my brother, um, you met him 1st. So, um, he's the techie guy, and he's really helped me create this program to where it's gonna take what we've learned through... with the help of AI to the next level. And I'm just excited to share this with you 'cause, um, it took me about 6, 9 months of putting my life's work -
Mm-hmm
... in the past 5 years since I've known you. So when did we meet each other again?
Uh, that... I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit. So-
Okay.
So basically, what you're saying is you have taken the precision psychiatry to a whole new level. And you actually... And you've been dripping on me bits and pieces, and it kinda like y- you just said, you know, these pro athletes can't, can't drink from a fire hose. Yeah. Give it, give us a little, uh, you know, inch hose, and we barely can keep up. But-
Yeah
... um, you're gonna share a lot with us today.
Yeah.
But yes, you're right. It's... I think it's over 3 years that I 1st-
Mm-hmm
... uh, I think I 1st talked, uh, our, our friend, Dr. Gordon, down to, um, Doral. He was doing some work down there and presentation. I sat next to a guy, this guy Michael. And, uh, and he was covering you for a conference, um, about brain health and wellness that focused on inflammation, inflammation, inflammation of the brain caused by trauma and repeated head impacts. And, uh, so that... I, I think that was almost 3 years ago.
And where did we meet 1st?
We... Well-
We met at Disney.
Yes, we...
Yeah. Well, I, I found out from your brother, uh, at the conference, "Hey, uh, we're..."
I told him I li- lived in St. Augustine, and he said-
Mm-hmm
... "Well, we go to Disney all the... Uh, uh, Ma- uh, Maizelle goes to Disney all the time, Dr. DeMaio. And, uh, let's, let's figure out how to meet there." And actually, we, we met at, uh, one of the, uh, hotels, um, um, in, in the lobby there-
Yeah
... uh, outside. And, uh, that was, that was our 1st introduction.
Mm-hmm.
My 1st intro- introduction to you, and Michael was there as well. And, uh, wow, it's, it's been an awesome journey. And now-
Yes
... we're going into the realms of,
I don't know. You know, I'm, I'm- ... I'm still, I'm still trying to figure out- ... ChatGPT and AI-
Mm-hmm
... and this and that and all that fun stuff. But, uh, you're, you're gonna-
Yeah
... you're gonna, you're gonna do, uh, you're gonna explain all of that and we're gonna be-
Yeah
... experts at it. Okay.
Yeah. So, yeah. Uh, you know what, though? When I was, to prepare myself for this talk, I actually
downloaded every one of your labs and the Millennium Protocol, which is Dr. Gordon's piece of the brain well program, and it was actually 2022.
Wow.
I did your 1st millennium report. Yeah.
That's, like, 4 years ago.
Mm-hmm.
My God.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I just, I just turned 61 a few months ago and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, where is it going?" So-
Right. Yeah.
Now, I, let-
Go ahead.
Yeah. No, go... Um, yeah. It was just, when you say you're 61, um, a lot of times
our... the way we live and it's just cell degeneration, it's not even really natural aging. It's all the things we're exposed to in our environment-
Hmm
... stress, toxins, brain injury.
Mm-hmm. Right.
And, um, I never thought I'd even be in this field. I just wanted to learn how is it that we can treat mental health patients with hormones? And I had difficulty trying to figure this out until my brother, uh, Mike, actually met Dr. Gordon and was following him for a while. And I'm really blessed that I learned it from him because he... I like his twist. It's not just about injecting people or inserting pellets in people. It's really getting to the nitty-gritty of why people have hormone deficiencies, which is from the beginning. And his edge was, um,
brain injury.
Mm-hmm.
And no one ever taught me the correlation between brain injury and head injury and, um, hormonal deficiency and how it affects people's mental health and why they become treatment-resistant depression.
Hmm. Hmm.
And, um, I'm, I'm just very blessed 'cause I coulda gone anywhere with this, but to find him and actually teach me how to do it the right way with a edge on
using hormones to treat mental health, because I never would've gotten that anywhere.
Hmm.
So I'm very blessed to be able to do that. And so it kinda s-
This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by our personal doctor and team of doctors, uh, Dr. Maizel, Maizelle DeMayo, and she's with the Paradise Behavioral Health. And we are in the-
Brain Well program, which is also part of the Millennium Health Center. Uh, Dr. Mark Gordon, you've seen him on Joe Rogan and even on our show, the Head Rush podcast. Um,
and, uh, hormones. And Maizelle is awesome. We love her.
She's, she's our doctor of psychiatry. She works with the Mark Gordon program with the hormones and, uh, and she j- she adds her twist of genetics and, um, and it's, it's, it basically is melding 2 wonderful, uh, uh, mediums together and we're getting great help from Dr. Maizelle DeMayo.
So please check out her website at paradisebehavioral.com.
She's-
Look up the Brain Well program. Get involved.
She's sponsoring us. They're, they're sponsoring us for the next year, so we are excited to, to have them on board and, uh, and, and shout the new- the good news to everybody, uh, th- that is watching these broadcasts. So...
Is she helping you, Paul?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
She's helping me, so go check her out, paradisebehavioralhealth.com.
I guess, uh, you know, it took off from there, um, learning about brain injury. Like, I realized that there's a lot more of my patients who are treatment-resistant because I never really asked about brain injury. And I always knew hormones was part of the treatment, but I'm glad I learned it the right way, where the pre-hormones, and we're gonna get into this, like, a little bit more technical, but the pre-hormones, the things that makes testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, those have just as much mental health benefits as well as the end hormones. And knowing how to treat it from the beginning is really where it's more important because if you give end treatment, it kinda disrupts the way the brain is supposed to work. So, uh, um, that was eye-opening to me. But then it's, it kind of verged into, like, how else is it? Because some of my patients, even if I gave them hormones, they weren't doing well.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Well, the whole beginning was, you mentioned, it's inflammation. If we don't address the inflammation 1st, nothing is ever gonna work, including even the things that I do in my practice, like TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation. If, um... I had a patient the other day that he did TMS, but he was a veteran. He had lots of head injuries and hormonal issues that I thought maybe even the hormones he was getting wasn't exactly doing the right thing for him. So, um, we
helped him with all the beginning of the hormones as well as decreasing inflammation. So, um, we discussed that maybe he didn't get as much benefit from TMS if... because we didn't understand the whole issue with inflammation.
Mm-hmm.
Inflammation can really get in the way of anyone doing transcranial magnetic stimulation-
Right
... because when that... there's a lot of interference. ... to try to get-
Mm-hmm
... that magnetic stimulation to help in the brain. I'm not saying that it didn't do it, but the benefit may not be as good. So that's why I always do inflammation markers as well as, um, hormonal issues, as well as the vitamins. Met- metabolism and vitamins is really important. So-
Well, that's what we're gonna-- I'm gonna ask you-
Yeah
... a question. 1st, 1st of all, really quick-
Yeah
... when you said you went back to 2022 for my blood-
Mm-hmm
... draws and so-
Mm-hmm
... so on and so forth, and, um-
Yeah
... did, did, did I hear you say, uh, you sent me, like, a video.
Mm-hmm.
Um, is that the breakdown of, of these things? And I- I think we're gonna show a video right now-
Mm-hmm
... uh, uh, quickly. Um, is that-
Yeah. You-- Why don't we do that and then we'll keep on going.
I wanna, I wanna ask you a question 1st, and I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go-
Okay
... ask you a question before this video, and then-
Okay
... we're gonna watch the video, and then I'm gonna ask it again.
Okay.
You, you, and don't answer it right now, but you added genetics to the equation-
Yes
... of the inflammation-
Mm-hmm
... and the hormone, uh, biomarker panel and so on and so forth. Why did you add that, uh, that, uh, to the equation? Let's watch this video, um, and, uh, we'll be right back.
Welcome to the Brain Well program. We applaud your commitment to enhancing your health and well-being. This personalized wellness treatment plan has been tailored specifically to your unique health goals. Precision medicine targets the root causes to improve mood, anxiety, weight management, and focus, not just applying a Band-Aid. We analyzed your biomarkers to create a comprehensive strategy. This integrates targeted nutritional supplementation, dietary adjustments, and a progressive physical activity regimen. Your plan includes an introductory video, personalized podcast, slideshow, 90-day roadmap, and executive summary. The comprehensive treatment plan contains a short form to start right away and a detailed long form. Your genetic blueprint revealed vulnerabilities in anxiety clearance and brain healing, driven by variants in the COMT and BDNF genes. Meanwhile, your labs identified active thyroid decompensation and latent viral inflammation. Doctor DeMayo customized your protocol to resolve these conflicts. Zinc is moved to dinner to protect morning medications. Selenium is held pending genetic testing, and vitamins are dosed low to prevent anxiety spikes. This protocol is a guide. Do not stop your current medications, but introduce additions exactly as directed. Follow the 90-day roadmap. To succeed, strict compliance using your 12-week daily checklist is essential. Are you ready? Let's get started.
All right, Doctor DeMayo. I asked the question before this video, and that was fascinating. I, I--
You put all of the, the last 5, 4 years in- into a comprehensive thing that I actually can watch and understand. It's-- There's so much learning that goes on today that I, I used to be able to read and com-- you know, and, and log it, but now it's w-- our attention spans are so ridiculously fast. You know, you, you, you have to-- It's almost like watching a video sometimes can be advantageous, and then you can write-- rewind to 2 minutes and 37 seconds and say, "I know she said something really important." But let's go back to the question that I asked before. You added genetics to the equation of the inflammation and the hormones and, and checking the-- and, and all, all of the stuff that you've been doing in your practice for years. Why did you do that?
Well, um, I think
knowing somebody's genetic predisposition to inflammation was just as important because it helps me hone in on
what I should do with the patient. Uh,
sometimes the inflammation is temporary, then we don't have to continue the treatment. But then I started really learning more about genetics of immune system.
Are you prone to low glutathione? Are you prone to other low detoxifiers like the SOD2 and QO1? And, um, are you prone to just high C-reactive protein as well as cytokines? And we talk about cytokines. Those are the, I would say, uh, the soldiers of the inflammatory reaction. So there are people that tend to just overreact. And so in these cases, as well as if they're, they are low in detoxifiers, then I could probably tell these people, "You need to stay on this treatment pretty much for life," in addition to doing what I also recommend, which is eating healthy, d- anti-inflammatory foods, anti-inflammatory lifestyle, exercise, and all the things to get rid of toxins. So knowing that helps me understand a patient better. That way I can also explain to them, "This is what you're made of." Okay? Um, so
I, I was discussing this with Doctor Gordon as well that he's got this new iXpress Genes, and I didn't quite understand what that meant because those cytokines, they measure, but it's a little different when it comes to just knowing genetics because I think you and I discussed epigenetics. You know, you can have propensity to high
cytokine production, interleukin-6, tumor necrosis alpha, and all that stuff. But, um, you don't always necessarily know unless you check those things, and I'm in the process of actually- ... incorporating that as a way of the markers. But at any rate, you know, in the beginning, we need to understand what is the patient's propensity for inflammation? 'Cause this can un- this can actually help understand why there's so much problems in women, especially, when it comes to autoimmune disease. So-
Hmm
... um, uh, knowing those markers can help me really emphasize to the patient, "Hey, you really need to work on clean living." You know? And, um, because otherwise, uh, your immune system is shot and you need-
Mm-hmm
... to focus on this for the rest of your life and take care of your body. Otherwise, your mental health will never be where it is. It may get better, but then once you start going back to bad habits, that's what's gonna happen.
And, and bad ha- bad habits can be consuming too much alcohol or alcohol w- whatsoever for some people. Um, obviously smoking. Uh, maybe smoking too much, uh, herbal medicine, uh, whatever. Some people, you know, some people do that for m- many, many reasons. But i- is that, is that... When you say, you know, you gotta get, get back to cleaner living, I guess, is, is diet in, is diet in, uh, involved with that?
Yeah. Um, when... Th- this is another thing when I really delved into...
When I started looking at, um, just genetics, it was all about nutrition, and then I started really diving into, um,
immune system, and then I started diving into diet. Some people are highly prone to, um, lactose or dairy products. Some people are highly prone to histamine. Guess what happens there? You know, histamine is what causes, it triggers a inflammatory reaction. So if you're highly prone to histamine, highly prone to dairy products, even processed meats like nitrates, a- all that can
throw your immune system off anyway. So... And, you know, let's get back to when we're talking about nutrition, MTHFR deficiency. I thought in psych that was just it. Once you treat that, then it's fine. But then I'm finding that it's not that effective. And then once I found out that people who have MTHFR deficiency also have MTRR deficiency or MTR. That's like methylation of B12.
So... And then when I look at their labs sometimes too, like, why is their homocysteine still elevated? That's a marker of making sure you have enough B vitamins or enough methylation, but it's still high. So a lot of questions were not answered until I started going into the methylation of B12 as well as absorption of B12 as choline. Choline i- What is choline? Do you know anything about it?
No. Talk to me.
Okay. All right. You know, it's... Do you... You've heard of acetylcholine, right?
Right, right.
Yeah.
Acetylcholine, kind of your autonomic system, heart rate, sometimes your breathing rate, maybe the bre- breathing, your... But is that?
Sort of. Um-
Okay
... it... When I talk about acetylcholine when it comes to brain health, um, there are some people who are just prone to low choline, and choline can also help with the homocysteine level, bringing it down as well. It's all part of the methylation cycle.
Okay.
And I'm still learning. So-
Yeah
... but, um, because, uh, in a way, I learn from my patients. They challenge me.
Yeah.
You know, like, "I- I've done everything right. What is it I'm not doing right?" You know? "What is I'm doing wrong?" Or, "What am I missing?" So it keeps me going, learning, and until I get the answer to things. So, um, we have to know those things. Methylation is a very big part of detoxification,
the ability to remove toxins and the inflammatory reaction with cytokines. And then you attack on exposure to trauma, um, toxins, multiple hits. So no wonder people have this, like, mixed bag of... Wow, if we... If I don't stress that to patients, then they're never gonna understand-
Hmm
... that these things with clean living and, um, making sure that, uh, we avoid toxic, um, relationships even and toxic thi- things in the environment, we're never gonna be able to get this patient well enough or to understand.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, and, and in the process of learning so much about that, I was like challenged, how am I gonna get my patients to understand that?
Right.
Because it's like my knowledge was getting more, and then I'm like, "Oh, boy." You know? Like, "How do I get them to understand these are the things they need to focus on?" And o- one thing I can say when it comes to precision psychiatry, um,
a pa- I can learn a lot from a patient when it comes to just knowing their genetics and knowing their labs. And there's so much information to be gained there. So once my patient is done with me with the, the initial brain health consultation, I just tell them, "Stop reading and looking and watching. I need for you to focus on understanding that things that I created is just for you and unique for you." And it's kind of fun.
So that's, so that's where I, I wanna backtrack and go back-
Mm-hmm
... to that, that... The, the, the clip, the video that you, that you put together from my-
Mm-hmm
... my labs and, and our, our, our meetings.
Yeah.
And I want you to explain that. I want you to explain how that precision psychiatry, how it's actually functional and used in your practice, because you're talking...
A- and I love what you're... Y- I, I'm hearing you say, you know, "We get to a point and I tell, tell them, 'Stop reading, stop, you know, tr- researching. Let's find out and let's, you know... Well, let's, l- let's use y- you as a guinea pig and find out where y- where you are, uh, you know, what...'" This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by the Patrick Risha CTE Awareness Foundation. Their goal is the, to spread awareness about the dangers of RHI, repetitive head impacts, after losing their son, Patrick, to CTE. Sadly, there are too many like Patrick that have lost their families, jobs, and sometimes their lives. And this foundation is working hard to stop the devastation than c- that can come from not protecting the brain. This foundation provides parents of school-age children with information about the dangers of sports, concussive sports, and activities which involve head trauma. They advertise on social media, print media, and billboards. Please follow them on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, and share their ads with others. And please visit their website, stopcte.org, to find ways to help people recognize the disease if confronted with it in their family, and how to prevent the suffering that can come to families when a brain is damaged. The website has medical forms to take to doctor's visits and advocacy letters if you want to help make change in your community. And their most recent campaign is geared up to help coaches build brain-healthy teams. You can use the information on stopcte.org website to understand CTE,
live with CTE, and prevent CTE. Please visit. Thank you. And don't knock it,
stop C-
There you go
... stopcte.org.
How your body reacts to something, uh, if, if you're low in BDNF, the neuroplasticity. I remember you telling me almost- ... two and a half years ago, "Oh, you're low in BDNF, so you don't, you don't, um, recover from concussions as well as the next person." And I was like, "Okay, what, what is..." I like to research and I wanna, w- how, why, why, how and where and all that, that fun stuff. But I would love you to, for you to break down what the video clip kinda tell us, you know, take us through how you've taken the precision psychiatry to the next level.
Yeah. So what I do in the beginning, because it starts with your genes, so depending on whatever genetic information the patient gives me, I have your genetic test from 2022, and that was one of those, like, I would say, elementary genetic tests. However, I was still able to come up with a lot of information for you. So, um, what I wanted t- So what I do is I feed that genetic information into my... Now let's get, let's start talking about this, because I was having great difficulty trying to constantly figure out what's the right treatment for a patient when I had all this experience and knowledge, and how do I put it all together? 'Cause it would take me forever. So that's when my brother told me, "Put it all in a spreadsheet." So there's a, a database. So what I do is I
put all the information of you as well as the information that I've learned and,
y- what's in the books, what's, what's in research and what's in,
y- you know, just science, it may not always reflect what it is in psychiatry. So I had to create my own database what this means for a patient that struggles with mental health.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, so then I did that, and, uh, there's one section that talks about just all the genetics. And, um, so now I'm able to create a...
Just once I feed the genetic re- test results, then it comes out with a report that actually is going to be part of the patient's brain well treatment plan. So, um, let me just sh- share with you what I do have, so that way people can understand what is it that we're, uh, talking about.
That would be awesome.
Yeah. Okay. All right. So this is yours, okay? This is, um, Paul's genetic analysis. It... We only had Genomind, so-
Mm-hmm
... that way we only used that. However, it was still gave me a lot of information. Um,
you do have what they call MTHFR deficiency, which makes it even more difficult. And I think in the, the bigger video I sent you, it explained it a little bit better. Um, so you do have MTHFR deficiency. This stuff I'm not so concerned about because this is all... This... The genetic test for psychiatry is geared towards prescribing, but I don't really use it for that.
Mm-hmm.
I use it for, like, people's propensity for why they struggle with mental health. MTHFR deficiency can explain why you cannot make enough serotonin, dopamine, or epinephrine. Okay?
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then the 2nd thing is, yeah, you do have this thing called BDNF. Oh, I did wanna-
... explain that it does identify the gene or snip, then it tells you what label it is of your gene or snip, and then that it is a risk variant. And then there's a video. Before you start reading a bunch of stuff , I actually create-
Correct
... actually created video links. So, like, that way, digest it little by little, especially with, you know, um, guys like you in NFL, uh, uh, they get overwhelmed with information. Let's just watch this little video 1st, and I'm not gonna click on that. Uh, you can do that on your own. And then it talks about the implications. And I always tell people, just because I give you your genetic, um, report, doesn't necessarily mean you gotta take a bunch of stuff. Because-
Uh-huh
... from there, what I do, now that we've created your, um, report,
what I do like about this, um,
genetic analysis, it will tell me, "Okay, I don't have any immune genes in you, so I need for you to do, like, pure genomics or life hacks." And how do you get that? It's pretty simple. If you've already done Ancestry or 23andMe, I can pull the raw data, and I can put it into this software, and it will pull up all kinds of things that, um, the... what we're talking about. You know, like all the... these are your immune genes that are missing because the genetic tests that you ran does not have that. Okay?
Uh-huh.
And I think you and I discussed that, yeah, you're really interested in healthy living and losing weight and keeping, maintaining your weight. Then this will also... this, um, pure genomics or life hacks will tell me all about your health genes or exercise genes, health and fitness genes. All those things can, we can find out, because there are some people that do wanna come in, and they come strictly for weight loss, but they also struggle with mental health issues. How do we get them to start exercising? So there's-
Hmm
... where the precision comes in. There's people-
And, and keep, and keep exercising. That, that seems to be the, the hard... you know, kinda like making a New Year's resolution, and by, by January 13th, you're out of the gym.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I do the same thing myself. But, um, anyways, so the whole thing is, it... when it comes to the exercise gene, I think it's very interesting because, um, there are people that are prone to lots of injuries. Like, you know, you guys are already prone to lots of injuries, but, you know, what's your predisposition to, um, tendon injury, ligament injury?
Mm-hmm.
You know, we don't know that. And then so... and then there are people that do better when it comes to a certain exercise. Some are better with HIIT. Some are better with longer duration, like running a marathon. But then the complication could be they're prone to injury. You don't tell them to start doing the marathon right away. We have to work their way up as part of the exercise, um, program that I create for them as well. So, um, and then there, there are people that struggle with weight loss because they struggle with their ability to, um, you know, lose fat. So in those cases, I tell the patient, "Diet alone is not gonna do this for you. You're gonna have to exercise, and this is the way you're gonna have to do it." There are some people that you do know that, you know, they eat well, and they lose weight, and there are some people that have to do both.
Hmm.
So this is where the, the, the beauty of precision and genetics will come in and tell me exactly how to get my patient to a point where they are losing weight the way they should. So, um, so those are the things that are missing in your report, so this is where it, like, tells me, "We gotta do this." So now I'm going to go a little bit into once I do your lab analysis. It is a hot mess that, um, I created for myself. So what I did was I actually, um, did something a little bit-
Thank you for doing that.
Look at this. That's, that's more like it for me.
Yeah. So, uh, this is really the, the way the, the whole process of creating the treatment plan is. 1st I run the genetics, then I run the labs, and from there, I take these 2, and I can come up with your protocol as well as a meal plan, an exercise plan, and then put it all together with what I... which w- this is what I usually send the patients, a long form and the short f- the short form and the long form in order to, for them to just not be overwhelmed at once. And then, um, I sent you the video. I always tell people, "Watch that video 1st, okay?"
Hmm.
And listen to the podcast. And I did send you a bunch of slides as well. And, um, and then I will s- then you can look at everything else. Um, but at any rate, we did start with the genetic analysis, so I just went ahead and just copied it here. And then, um, I didn't put everything in your labs, but this is for my sake only that, um, because of the genetics, it means... because of the, the labs and the way I have it in my, um, spreadsheet, it come- prioritizes a bunch of things for me. So this is interesting 'cause, uh, I guess I'm not breaking HIPAA with you 'cause you're letting me do this on your data, so-
Right. Yeah. And you and I totally agreed to, uh, for you to share my personal to the world. Absolutely.
Yeah.
Correct.
So, um, this is, uh, really something critical that you and I need to start following, Paul, because you've always had Hashimoto's, okay?
Yes.
But now it's starting to affect your thyroids. And I think I've had you on some thyroid medicines before, and I don't know if you're still on them or not. So maybe it's time to get back on there. But this is what I wanted to share with you, that the hypothyroidism's starting to become more of a lab thing with you. Because before it was just you had Hashimoto's-
Mm-hmm
... and you didn't have those issues.
Right.
And, but I think it's because we gave you some thyroid medication as well. However-
Got it
... this is what I wanted to share with you, 'cause I did look up your Hashimoto's, um-
... thyroid, um, axis. So here,
look where you were in 2022. 515-
Right
... was your thyroid peroxidase antibodies. That is the, um, that is how you can diagnose somebody with Hashimoto's. But as you can see-
Is that, is that like a b- is that like an inflammation marker as well?
Yes, for Hashimoto's.
Okay.
Yeah. Because it start-
Okay.
It will, um, start to attack the thyroids.
Okay.
And that's where eventually you will become hypothyroid if we don't get a hold of the inflammation. But you did a really good job. Here you were, you know, at 515. Uh-
Right
... this was about 6 months later, but, like, in 2024, it was 349. The last one I did for you was in September. It's gone way down, so-
Oh
... you are due for another set.
Right.
Okay?
Right.
So, um, so you're doing something right.
Wow. Well, that's good.
Yeah.
But that's interesting because, uh, that September 2025-
Mm-hmm
... in October is when I started, uh, really watching my diet as well.
Mm-hmm.
So that, that's interesting. So that, that'll be interesting to see from these blood results if it, it, uh, helps-
Yeah
... helped out, you know, and everything-
Yeah
... you've been doing. Huh.
It, yeah. So, um, so that wa- so this whole thing actually... Do you... Look at your C-reactive protein in 2022.
Right.
And look where it is now. So you've done some things right. Okay?
Right, right.
Um, these are Epstein-Barr markers. I usually still just follow them. So that's telling me there's still some inflammation happening, um-
Okay
... because you still have a positive Hashimoto's level, but better. Okay?
Uh-huh.
So let me take a look at... Oh, this is interesting 'cause I did run your arsenic, or not arsenic. I did a urine for heavy metal. You did test positive for arsenic. Um-
Oh.
I don't know. Did you have fish the night before?
Somebody's trying to kill me. No, uh- ... it's a... Well, I- I've been getting my omega-3s from a salmon or I, I was e- eating a lot of s- salmon, but unfortunately-
Mm-hmm
... it was farm-raised. But now I eat, um, this company, that, that guy with the beard, that young guy and his wife that, you know, show their video in Alaska, you know, ship it, you know. I- I'm getting it from them. So, uh-
Okay. Those are really good.
So sardines. Yeah, right.
Okay.
Sar- sardines and, uh, and salmon. Uh-
Okay
... wild caught salmon is where I try to... That's-
Yeah
... pretty much the only meats that I eat.
Okay. Yeah, so the other thing that I do test for, um, with other patients, and I, I, I really need for you to see whether you can ha- get that test done 'cause, um, the other things that are missing in your tox panel is BPA, which is plastics. It's this huge endocrine disruptor.
Uh-huh.
Mold. Mold can look like Hashimoto's. Do you still have mold?
Right.
I don't know. Okay. Glyphosate can also cause a lot of issues with-
Right
... um,
inflammation. And, um,
there's a connection between that and Parkinson's and all those, uh, neurological disorders.
Right.
Um, and I think you and I discussed about tau protein. I know you said you didn't have any family history of it, but because of the history of repetitive head injuries with you-
Right, right
... uh, wouldn't surprise me if you did have tau proteins. Does that mean you're gonna have dementia? No. It's a good thing we recognize it now and we can continue-
Right
... what we're doing, which is clean living, decreasing inflammation. And, um, likelihood of having dementia, more than likely not, but this is where, um... This is how, like, a lot of people back then, like, they started developing these diseases because they didn't recognize there's risk factors that they could have mitigated in the beginning. But now we're learning. And, um, I'm, I'm very, very, um, happy to see there's a lot of other, um,
medical doctors out there that is really talking about toxins, inflammation, and neurological disorders and d- and depression because, um,
we think we're healthy. We think, you know,
uh, these chemicals are not gonna hurt us, but we're finding more and more so that they actually are harmful. And this is one of the reasons why we have so many neurologic autoimmune disorders out there. Put them in a framework of poor immune function,
then you're-
Mm-hmm
... you're gonna have trouble. You're gonna have-
Right
... you're gonna have some serious trouble. So I just wanted to go through that at 1st. So what I did for you though is I did create a requisition of labs I still need for you to do, and I, I think I sent you that. But I think what I'm gonna do is, um,
run it through my, um,
my EMR system. That way you have it and you don't have to worry about it. So-
Right
... yeah, you did have a lot of issues with your omegas. That was low back then. So I'm curious-
Right
... to see where it is now that, um, you're eating a lot more, um, smash-
Do you have-
... types of fish.
Right. And, and w- remember, I was, in May, I was at the Cleveland Clinic, who, uh, their hospitals actually-
Yes, they-
... designed the omega-3 6 ratio blood draw, right? And they couldn't take it at the Cleveland Clinic Hospital for me. And I was like, "What?"
Which is very strange.
Yeah, it was weird.
But that's okay.
It was...
Yeah, but that's okay.
So I have to, I have to do, I have to do that. So, uh-
Yeah, yeah. So we- we'll do that for you. I'll order that for you and, um, we'll get that all squared away. Okay?
Yeah.
All right. So let me see what else I have here. And I think... Okay, so now that we, um, got your genetic analysis and we got your, um, labs-
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Abso- th- this is not what I'm gonna have you take. What it... This is just for the purpose of demonstration. So once I get those 2 things, um, together and I correlate it based on my protocol, um, based on all the data that I put together-
Mm-hmm
... out comes this protocol. You should take L-methylfolate. However, as you can see, this is where my precision comes in because of,
you know, the low COMT, because of this, what I discussed. Be careful if this... And I think you already said that before. You took 7.5 and you got very anxious. I remember you telling me that. So be careful about-
I remember. So, so-
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you... I mean, we... When we first did the genetic testing almost 3 years ago, you, um-
Mm-hmm
... you, you know, the MTHFR and the low COMT.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
But... A- and we, uh, also, uh, um... So if you take methylfolate...
N- now, I, I... It's a rudimentary understanding, or I may be-
Mm-hmm
... totally screwed up, but I understood-
No, no, you got it.
I understood because of our, our testing, your genetic testing, that I didn't assimilate or break down dopamine well. So if I had high levels of dopamine, that I would-
Mm-hmm
... be anxious or nervous or worried or couldn't sleep as well and so on and so forth. But I'm MTHFR deficient, can't... You know, folic acid doesn't convert into the methylfolate or, or-
Yes. Mm-hmm.
Um, y- they-
Yes.
So, but...
So if I take methylfolate, it raises my, my, uh, dopamine?
Dopamine. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes. And so-
So we... Yeah. So at 1st we took-
Yeah
... we took a normal dose. You put me on it, and then 2 weeks later, I was so sensitive to my body, "Hey, hey, Doc, I'm worried and anxious a little bit from t- taking something. What is it?" And you knew i- immediately.
Yeah. So-
You told... Yeah, you told, you told me im- immediately. You says, "Well, okay, let's, let's see if we... And the methylfolate is, uh, is giving you too, you know, too high levels of the dopamine."
Yeah.
"So back off the methylfolate." And I think we cut it in half or something and, uh...
Yeah. And, and so this is why we have to consider precision, because nobody-
Right
... lives in one gene.
Well-
As I've learned with patients, the more I learned about genetics and how they interplay with each other. And so, um...
And let's go next. It says you should take sublingual methylcobalamin 1000 micrograms, probably not for you, okay, 'cause your B12 was running low. But this is where also I want to get the rest of your genetics, that MT... I wanna know, do you have MTR or MTR deficiency? Um-
Hmm.
And then again, because of the low COMT, we have to be careful of, like, how much we give you. Okay?
Right.
Um, okay. And then this... Because you have a lot of inflammation markers and they recommend vitamin C, and then, um, you were, I think, running a little low on zinc, so it recommended that. But at any rate,
this, this spits out. But then before I even discuss what the patient should take, I have a meeting with them going, "Okay, what are you doing?" And because I can actually find supplements that have 2 birds, you know, hit them with, you know, one stone or all that.
Right.
So you don't have to take a bunch of things. You... That way you're not overwhelmed. Okay?
Right. And I think that, that... I think that's the, uh, the hard thing is, okay, I understand it. I wanna get better. I wanna, uh, I wanna feel better. And then the... then you take, you know, 16 supplements, and then you get tired of taking 16 supplements after, you know, after a year and a half.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah. So, so, so you're saying some of these supplements have... You know, you can kill 2 birds with the one stone. You can, y- you know... The precision part of it will tell you, "Hey, you can take this and it will actually affect 2 or 3 things."
Mm-hmm. Yeah, like when, um... I think your cortisol level is running a little high. If I knew that you run low in choline, then I would recommend phosphatidylcholine versus phosphatidylserine, because phosphatidylserine will decrease cortisol, but it won't do anything to help with the phosphatidylcholine that increases acetylcholine in the brain for memory. So-
So people have been... So people have been telling you, "Are you depressed?" you know, for years, right? Well, yeah, I lost my son, you know? What-
Yeah.
I- I'm depressed. Of course I'm depressed. And... But I didn't... never attributed it to nutrition or getting hit in the head 15 to 20,000 times or whatever, and having concussions and this and that. And, uh, you know, and I never wanted to get on the SSRI drugs rol- roller coaster because all I heard was- Uh, if it doesn't work, they put you on another one. And if it doesn't work, it put, they put you on another one. And it, uh, "Oh, and that one doesn't work. There's a new one out there." And it's a roller coaster. I always wanted to avoid that roller coaster. But y- what you're talking about, this precision psychiatry, ta- taking the genetics and combining them with all the markers, the inflammation, the, the, uh, a- and you just sprung on me this SDOP, whatever- ... you
for a supplement that I, i- it's a great supplement, but it might harm me becau-
Yeah
... if, if I have that genetic predisposition.
Yeah. So I can, I can, uh, talk a little bit of that 'cause you do have a lot of issues with Epstein-Barr virus, which is, uh, mono. Um-
Right
... I did create a, um, protocol for, just for Epstein-Barr virus, um, and I separate it with Comp T, normal Comp T and low Comp T. So this is what you have, but like I said, we're not gonna, you know, have you take a bunch of 1st, okay? I just wanted for the sake of demonstration, this is what it comes out to.
Right. Okay.
But then I wanted to also share with you the 2nd part of the
protocol is, um, I actually will put a schedule and a time when you're supposed to take things. Okay?
Mm-hmm. Mm.
So-
Okay
... morning, lunch, afternoon, whatever, dinner, at bedtime, it's all going to be in a, um,
protocol-
My-
... or a schedule for you to follow.
My, my calendar is gonna have so many alerts on it, uh, for, you know, for each day.
Well- ... it'll just be alerts for certain times, and it'll tell you to take a bunch of things at this time. But, um-
Right
... like I said, for, for, um, just demonstration's sake, this is, this is what is going to come out. Okay?
Right.
And then, um, from there, yeah, I will create the, a diet plan. Um, I actually have, like... Let me see if I can pull up yours and then let me... And this is all, this is gonna be all incorporated to the treatment plan that the patient gets, so...
Uh-huh.
Okay. And I wanted to share with you how I created the diet plan. And there's a method to the madness. Okay?
Okay.
All right. Okay. So it takes all the information from your genetics and your labs, and, uh, the 1st part of the diet plan really just explains to you, you know, the main points of why you have to do the things you have to do. Okay? So it's a bunch of stuff, but like, you know, hey, this is, this is why you have to do this. And the 2nd part, like I, and I always say like, "Oh, Doc, I can't eat 4 meals," or whatever. I was like, "Well, no, you don't have to." But like, hey, at least you don't have to think about it. If you wanna eat breakfast, if you wanna skip out on lunch, you wanna eat dinner, there's already a plan in place.
Uh-huh.
So what I did was I took all that dietary guideline and I put it into a meal plan so you don't even have to think about it. And with you-
Wow
... because your BDNF, um, BDNF will get produced well with intermittent fasting. So your-
Mm-hmm. Right
... fasting schedule is already here. Okay?
Right.
Um, and then you have 4 options for each meal. So, you know, if, um, if tired of having yogurt, you can have eggs that morning. Um, lunchtime, um, a snack. Dinner time, okay-
Wow
... if you don't like any fish, you can have beef, you can have chicken, you can have salmon, you know?
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Um, and then I also created a grocery plan so that way you don't even have to think about what you're getting at the grocery. It's all here.
Wow.
Already done.
Okay.
Okay?
All right.
And then-
You're, you're, you're help- you're helping the caregivers as much as, uh, some, some of us, you know, some of the guys, uh, guys and gals, but guys-
Yeah
... specifically in the, you know-
Exactly
... football players that are a little worse off.
Yeah. So that way it's an easy thing. So, um, and then the 2nd, because we have the intermittent fasting schedule, I didn't wanna just throw it in there within a month. We go from 12 hours, now you're to 10 hours. So the 1st ti- meal of the day is at 10 o'clock. Okay?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And it goes down.
Right, right.
And then the 3rd one, 3rd month is here, 12 o'clock is your 1st meal of the day.
Right.
And so yeah, it, your meals go down even further if you wanted. But like I said, this is...
You don't have to eat all these meals because there's some people only eat one or 2 a day. And I said, "Well,
it's not about the time or it's not about how much. What are you eating?"
Right. What are you eat- Yeah. What are you eating? Yes, exactly.
Yeah. So all this is already based on all the data from your genetics-
Uh-huh
... and from your labs.
Right. Right.
So there's no guessing and like I'm telling you, "Eat more protein or eat less protein." You're like, "I don't know how to calculate that." Okay?
Right. Right.
But it's already here for you, so you don't have to think about it.
Now, let, let, let me ask you a question.
Mm-hmm.
In some cases, like mine, dealing with active AFib, fortunately it's not tachycardic. I don't... But I, I don't do expe- I, I go to the gym and I'll lift one body part a, a, a day type of thing.
Okay. Yeah.
And I'm there, I'm there for 20 minutes and, you know, do 4 sets of chest or something like that.
So again- ... every, the, there's a method to the madness of what you have to do. So I, I bring out the rationale about like-
Mm-hmm
... why you have to do certain exercises. Okay?
Uh-huh.
This talks about your cortisol is running kinda high, so, like, we gotta work on that. And, um, you do have some issues with glucose metabolism. Genetic-wise, I don't know how we should focus on that for the rest of your life. There are people that are poor in glucose metabolism, so that's where the, um, information on genetics is gonna tell me, "Okay, you're gonna have to do this for the rest of your life." You know-
I-
... some people, like... Yeah. Mm-hmm.
That glucose metabolism, I understood. I've heard it. I didn't research it and fact-check it.
Yeah.
But I've heard, uh, after repeated head impacts, your brain is less efficient at using glucose for an energy, so you actually have to, um, depend more on ketones, the fat.
Um-
Uh, yes. And y- for you especially, this is where, um,
a keto diet is actually good for you for low BDNF people.
Right.
It's 3 things, you know, intermittent fasting and, um,
the keto diet and, um, HIIT, h- high intensity interval training, are all geared towards increasing BDNF. But-
Mm-hmm
... because of your genetic issue that you have propensity to gain,
to, to run a little bit higher in dopamine than others, or use... Even if you build that dopamine, it's l- your slow breakdown of it, you're gonna be more prone to anxiety. So we have to start you off slowly.
Mm. Mm. Gotcha. Yeah.
And so this is where it's really important that I get the patient to understand when they're full of stress, full of anxiety. They're like, "I go out, Doc, and I run, and I feel good, but then I still feel like crap." You know? And I'm like, "Well, because we gotta work on that vagal tone."
Right.
You know?
Right.
You gotta decrease that adrenaline, um, portion of you when you're struggling with post-traumatic stress disorder or just generalized anxiety disorder. Um, we have to teach your body, because right now the... some people, like with post-traumatic stress disorder, they are such in a hyper state.
Mm-hmm.
And so we have to train their body and their brain to slow down. So for someone like you also, I told you, you need to slow down. Do some breathing-
Right
... walks. You can-
Right
... you know, when... And that way-
One, one little-
... they are a process for you to get to.
One simple thing-
Mm-hmm.
Exactly. Well, one simple thing I've, uh, been taught is breathing in through my nose and out through my nose-
Mm-hmm. Yeah
... actually will increase the nitric oxide and kinda-
Yeah
... get, get me to recover faster and kinda calm me down a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, it was said because, uh, uh, um, you know, we, we are mouth breathers. We think, you know, especially, you know, heavy, like HIIT sports, you know, like NFL-
Yeah
... where you go 6 seconds, you know, full 100% and then you, and then you suck wind going back to the huddle. And I said, "Well, I, I mouth breathe because I can get more oxygen, you know, in my, in my lungs," you know. But, uh, actually there's... it's not as efficient-
Mm-hmm
... efficient as the-
Yeah
... nose breathing, so.
So yeah, when you t- when... if you didn't know how to do that, here's a link to a YouTube video shows you how to do that.
Oh, cool.
So really, no... And, uh, even with all the exercises I'm telling you to do, there's video demonstrations-
Oh
... for that.
Okay, I see it in the l- in the-
Mm-hmm
... in the li- link, the blue, uh, link.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, cool.
Yeah. Yeah.
Very cool. Look at that.
Yeah. So, like, you're, you're like, "Okay, Doc, you're telling me how to do that. I don't know how." I was like, "There's no excuse. Right here."
Click it. Okay?
Yeah.
And, um, so that's that in a nutshell. But then there's something else that I wanted to show. Get... Uh, 'cause there's still, like... it's still kind of overwhelming. So-
Yeah. There, there's a lot there.
Yes.
And it- and-
There's a lot there.
And then so what I did was I actually created... I'm just gonna show you for the sake of this time. I'm gonna show you the short, um, protocol, but it actually has all the information what the po- what the video and the podcast was talking about. I wanna share it with you.
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Okay. All right. Yeah, so it is an introductory video. I mean, just a letter welcoming, blah, blah, blah, explaining things again. Um, but
we created this roadmap-
Mm-hmm
... so it makes it easy-
Mm-hmm
... to understand what we're doing month one-
Looks-
... month 2, month 3.
It looks like Chutes and Ladders. I can do that.
Exactly. So the... And even it will actually get you to understand what is the problem and where we, where are we focusing on. This is the beauty of precision.
Uh-huh.
You have trouble with your omega-3 that is low. You have conflicting genetics, and you have thyroid issues and metabolic issues. So it's all laid out in a pretty picture for you. Here,
month one, you know, your fasting window, 12 to 12. Next window-
Oh
... is 14 to 10. Fasting window here, month 3, 16 to 18.
Wow.
And the goals are, what are we doing the 1st month? What are we doing the 2nd month? Says give a foundation and baseline month one, optimization progression month 2, peak once you get to-
Okay
... the 90 days. You know, this is when you will start to actually incorporate HIIT into your protocol. So-
Now,
now, l- tell me, Doc, does that, this, does this protocol... 1st, 1st of all, I love this cheat sheet, I, I will call it. And, uh, you can print one sheet out and, and carry it around in your, in the front page of your notebook, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And you can-
Yeah.
You can study it at the red light, I guess.
Yeah.
You know, but, um, when you're stopped in traffic. But does this hap- does this help, uh, you know, guys like me, uh, overnight?
Uh, no.
So it's not like taking a, a drug in a pill or a pharmaceutical-
Yeah
... and all of a sudden I feel whatever. I, I don't know.
Yeah. No. But, I mean, okay, I always tell my patients this, like, "How long have you struggled with depression? How long have you struggled with whatever that you're struggling with?" Like-
Right
... how many hits? I mean, like, you tell me, Paul, like, what, how many hits have you had after they calculated it?
Uh, over, over 20 years of organized football, they... approximately 15 to 20,000 hits.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so-
Yeah, exactly. So, and here it is.
There we go. We got it.
And, um, 90 days
of month one.
Mm-hmm.
What do you do, you know, in the morning and what are you taking at lunch, the afternoon? What's your, um,
routine that day? You gonna do some walks?
Mm-hmm.
Check it off. Okay. Did you do your fasting? Check it off. Did you exercise? You know, check it off. And, um, so it, it...
You can check off what you did for that day.
Mm-hmm.
That way-
Yeah
... you can say, no excuse why it didn't work, you know?
Right.
So, like, "It didn't work, Doc." I'm like, "Well..." And the thing, what I wanna show people is that
you don't have to necessarily take a bunch of things all at once. It actually will break it down, like, when you're supposed to start taking things the way they are. So just follow the plan a week at a time. That's all you gotta do.
Right.
And keep it simple.
Yeah.
And for you, I know this is gonna go way down once I get-
Yeah
... the rest of your genetic information. So-
Right
... no excuses.
So you sounded like my, my hardest coaches in the NFL, "No excuses." Ah, okay. I can't-
Yeah.
I, I hated, I hated giving excuses. I, I, I-
Yeah
... that... I wouldn't give an excuse. I, I take it... I take my lumps and bruises and, uh... Because most of the time I, I deserve them, so...
Well, y- you know, you guys do this for the sake of glory, I guess. And it's a livelihood, you know? And, um-
Yeah. Well, s- so, yeah, there's, there's many reasons. All that glitters is not gold, but it was a pretty cool journey, that's for sure.
Yeah.
All right. Give, give us a word of hope. Um, I, I'm seeing, you know, seeing these strategies, uh, helping a lot of people. Um, we love to give hope to our audience, so that word of hope.
Yeah. Well, you know, the word of hope today is that, um, it's not all your fault, okay?
Mm-hmm.
If you work with someone who could identify all the biology, the metabolism, the hormones, the endocrine issue,
um, you can do something about it.
Mm-hmm. Amen. That's good.
Yeah.
I love it. I, I love... I lo- I'm gonna be watching that, that video over and over, and I'm gonna figure out how to... You know, you've, you've, you've given me great advice, uh, through the past 3 years of how to fix myself. I'm almost fixed.
Almost. You know-
Yeah. Well, I s-
... you've done some good stuff for yourself, you know?
Yeah, I think-
We still have some work to do and-
Absolutely
... you know, um, I think we just have to get you back on your thyroid medicine and keep doing what you're doing-
Yeah
... with, like, the, um, the inflammation and the diet and the right kind of exercise. And-
Mm-hmm
... as soon as I get all the other data from you, I will have a complete list, and you and I can talk. Um-
Yeah
... we can even do it like this again, and that way we can say, "Okay, we're ready."
Absolutely.
I'm ready for you to, like-
Good.
This is... And-
You're gonna... In that checklist, you're gonna say, "It's your fault. It's your fault. It's your..."
No.
Not yet.
What a pleasure. It's awesome to see you again, Dr. DeMaio. Thank you so much. And, uh, we, we here at the Head Rush podcast have been, uh, um... We're, we're glad that you're dear friends with us here, and thank you, thank you, thank you. Good, uh, good show. And we're gonna, we're gonna do it again and see if-
Okay
... you know, how, how good I've been a- as a patient.
Well, uh, we'll find out. So, like, yeah, well, after this, you know, um, I'll, I'll go through my, um,
EMR and put in all the labs that are missing. And hopefully that you can get the NFL to help you out there.
Exactly.
You know? 'Cause, um, this is really critical. Um-
Yeah
... I'm not saying you should still go out there and play football and hit your head, but, like, hey, now we understand, like, what is preventing you from getting better, right?
Right. Right.
Okay.
Absolutely. So, all right. And then, uh, and now we can attack it.
Yes.
Thank you, Dr. DeMaio. And, uh, tune in next time to the Head Rush podcast.
All right. Keep me posted. Bye now.
All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.
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