Let’s Get Down to (Queer) Business

Show Notes

Our guest’s work is centered around getting people to change their mind. Coach Bastian is a writer, speaker, and personal development coach supporting queer and trans entrepreneurs on well-being and mindset. We chat about building queer capital, embracing failure as a learning opportunity, and how to stay true to your vision without worrying about pleasing everybody else. 

To learn more about Coach Bastian’s personal development coaching, check out https://www.coachbastian.co/ or follow him on Instagram

For resources and information about the anti-trans bills references in this episode’s intro: 

• Anti-LGBTQ+ Legislation Tracker
• Iowa Bill Banning Trans Girls
• “Don’t Say Gay” bill progresses in Florida 
• Texas Governor and Attorney General claim gender affirming healthcare for minors is “child abuse”

For questions, comments or feedback about this episode: [e-mail] 

Find us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram or at sgdinstitute.org 

Host: R.B. Brooks, they/them, director of programs for the Midwest Institute for Sexuality & Gender Diversity 

Cover art: Adrienne McCormick 

★ Support this podcast ★

Creators & Guests

Host

R.B. Brooks

Director of Programs, Midwest Institute for Sexuality and Gender Diversity

Producer

Justin Drwencke

Executive Director, Midwest Institute for Sexuality and Gender Diversity

What is Take the Last Bite?

Take the Last Bite is a direct counter to the Midwest Nice mentality— highlighting advocacy & activism by queer/trans communities in the Midwest region. Each episode unearths the often disregarded and unacknowledged contributions of queer & trans folks to social change through interviews, casual conversations and reflections on Midwest queer time, space, and place.

For questions, comments and feedback: [e-mail]

To support this podcast and the Institute, please visit sgdinstitute.org/giving

Host: R.B. Brooks, they/them, director of programs for the Midwest Institute for Sexuality & Gender Diversity

Cover Art: Adrienne McCormick

R.B.
Hey, hi, hello ya’ll, this is R.B. and welcome back to season 2 episode 2 of Take the Last Bite, a show where we lay Midwest Nice out on the table and then we flip that table to have honest conversations about the radical work of Midwest queer and trans communities.

For today's episode, I'm excited to be talking with a good friend of mine whose work is centered around changing people's minds. If you're interested in learning how to approach starting your own business, how to embrace the inevitability of failures and how to stay true to your vision without worrying about pleasing everybody else, then you’re gonna wanna stick around.

But first I want to follow up to some points that I made in our episode from two weeks ago, when I griped about the latest surge in anti-trans legislation, specifically looking at the “Don't Say Gay” bill in Florida and a statement put out by the Texas Attorney General and the governor of Texas, where they essentially say that gender-affirming care for minors is “child abuse.” Just a few days after we aired that episode, Iowa decided to join the pack of states pushing forward egregious legislation and signed into law a bill that bans trans girls from participating in girl’s sports

I am not someone who cares about sports ball in general, but what I think is essential to point out about this particular transphobic tactic is that the talking points around who can participate in K-12, collegiate, and professional sports is not about the integrity of the game or the fairness of competition. It's just another measure to prevent trans people from participating in public life, whether it's what bathrooms or locker rooms we can use, what types of activities we can participate in or how we can show up in the world. It’s about denying our existence. And what was particularly haunting to me when it came to the Iowa decision is who was present at the precise moment it was signed into law. There’s a picture floating around where the Iowa governor is seated at a table and she’s surrounded by a large group, rows deep, of white, primarily blonde, smiling young cis girls. It looks like a scene out of a damn Jordan Peele movie.

I was talking to a friend who shared that something she's learned is that, when a group of white women gather around a document, it usually means someone's rights are being taken away—and this is a prime example of exactly that.

There’s this dangerous idea that comes from cis, primarily white, women that denying trans women from participating in women's spaces whether it be sports, music festivals, survivor spaces, support services, etc., is in the interest of protecting women. And it is how we end up with codified instances of trans women being denied the opportunity to participate in experiences for women. And I would assert that there is a particular responsibility of cis women who don’t hate trans people to challenge this, to talk to your people, and to disrupt this idea. Broadening our understanding of what it means to be a woman and also being more precise about the spaces we’re creating in which we’re trying to provide support for folks who are impacted by misogyny, sexism, misogynoir, and gender-based discrimination is going to take us much further toward disrupting patriarchy and gender inequity than what is currently taking place. There is no winning if certain people who are impacted by gender oppression decide that they are more worthy of being liberated than others.

Iowa is just the unfortunate example of the day and there are many more battles ahead of us and we have work to do, but I think it's important for us to consider how much responsibility we have in that work and how one role differs from those who are directly targeted by these attacks.

Let trans girls play sports. Let trans children exist. And let people say gay. This is getting out of hand. But we are strong, we are capable and we have a rich history that has set a precedent for what we do when folks have tried to eradicate us from existence. We continue to show up spring up and expand so let's hold on to that history and keep it moving

Today's guest is very familiar with honoring our history in order to plan for the future Sebastian Nemec AKA Coach Bastian is a personal development coach, he is a writer he is an entrepreneur, and he is here to chat with me about how to adjust your mindset to approach starting a new business and why he specifically focuses on queer and trans entrepreneurs in his coaching practice

Let’s get down to business…. on Take the Last Bite

[INTRO MUSIC PLAYING]

Y'all we cannot do this. We cannot be these stereotypical Midwesterners. Please eat the rest of this food.

We just have these conversations every day with people like this is exhausting. I don't want to do this anymore.

Why can't we be in space with hundreds of other queer and trans folks and having these necessary conversations?

I don't know who you are, but we're going to talk by the potatoes for five minutes

Because aesthetic is the only thing keeping my dysphoria at bay. I'm broke all the time, but I look amazing.

Definitely going to talk about Midwest Nice and if that's as real as it wants to think it is.

Midwest nice is white aggression. That's what it is.

[END MUSIC]

R.B.
Alright, fam. So we have known each other for six years. I was doing the math. I don't know if you knew that. And over the six years, I feel like your life trajectory has taken a few turns, but ultimately has been predicated on the same core aspiration, right. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So I'm hoping that you can start with sharing who you are and what you're up to right now.

SEBASTIAN
Yeah, sounds good. So my name is Sebastian, or you can call me Bastian because I go by Coach Bastian and I'm a personal development coach for queer and trans entrepreneurs. So, I primarily help them with the mindset and accountability and goal-setting piece when it comes to setting up their business and growing their business, because I feel like a lot of people can figure out the “how.” But the biggest obstacle is getting into that new mindset of generating your own income, working with however many different kinds of people, clients, customers, building relationships. It can be a big change from going from an employee to an entrepreneur. So that's what I primarily do now.

R.B.
Leading up to this current venture of yours, what is your background in entrepreneurship that undergirds how you're able to then coach people through their entrepreneurship journeys and goals?

SEBASTIAN
Yeah. So my background is actually all over the place. [CHUCKLES] I think a lot of people… it doesn't go back as far as having a lemonade when I was a kid. But in college, I started out as a poli sci major because I was a nerd and into politics. And then I was on the school newspaper in high school. And so I went to college for poli sci with a minor in journalism. And then I actually left for some military training and then a deployment. And when I was coming back, I knew I wanted to switch from poli sci. So I went into entrepreneurship. Just the vibe was not for me, actually. I did one semester, but found out halfway through the semester that my university had a cultural entrepreneurship program in the College of Liberal Arts. And I'm like THAT’S where my people are. And so I switched to what we call “cue”—culture entrepreneurship— and went on to graduate with that degree and did some business competitions in there. And I try to start my own business from there. And I learned a lot from trying to start that business. And then I did freelance work after graduating from college, along with a day job. And I actually started an MBA program in fall 2020. So, during the pandemic, online, and it didn't challenge me in the ways that I needed. Like I said, it was online and so everything was pretty templated versus going to an in-person university. And I was really just chasing the paper. I knew I just wanted to make one and I didn't want to have as much of a limit. I wanted more freedom. And around New Year's going into 2021… I don't even remember what I was Googling, I think I was Googling something about passive income because I was following Arlan Hamilton, if you know who she is. And for folks who don't know, look up backstage capital Arlan Hamilton. She came up with a book called It's About Damn Time. Amazing Black lesbian woman who started her own venture capital firm when Silicon Valley said “F-YOU.” So she is a big inspiration to me.

So, I just kind of follow… was looking at passive income, because I was taking one of her courses, actually, and figure out what skills I could offer. And I knew I wanted to help queer and trans community, being a queer and trans individual myself. And again, I don't know how coaching came on my Google search, but then I was like, “huh, I'm going to look into this a little bit more.” And I did, and found a coaching certification program that aligned with my values and didn't seem like a scammy, weekend, $500 certificate kind-of-deal and just went for it. It was one of those gut feelings. Actually, I didn't go for it the first time because I was in the middle of my program and I was like,” no, I need to finish my program.” And then maybe I'll look back at it because I knew I couldn't do a day job full time MBA and do a coaching certification program. But then they had a deal come up about a month later and it was nearing the end of my MBA term. And so I'm like, “I'm doing it.” So I left my MBA program, signed up for the certification, and haven't looked back since.

R.B.
So I feel like that is such an interesting trajectory from college. Right. Because I think when I think about college education in the way that we're messaging around like, oh, you have to go to college to get the job that you want, right, like, it's very stringent around. Like, get your degree, go get the job you want, make the money, do whatever. Right. That is the kind of touted success story for going to college, right. And what I think I appreciate is that you're kind of naming, you know, you did some exploratory stuff at a certain point during college, you, you know, graduated, right. And then stomped it off to kind of continue doing some of that exploratory stuff to then land upon this certificate program while you're in the middle of an MBA, which is in many ways too kind of this natural next step that we're encouraged to take after you graduate undergrad. I also think the college story is vital to this conversation, too, because that's how you and I came into each other's ecosystems, right. I started as a staff person at the college you attended, and I'm pretty sure you were the first, to my knowledge, trans person that I encountered, right. Because you intentionally came to my office, you're like, “hey, hi, hello! Let me know what you need.” And I was like, “thank you for that.”

SEBASTIAN
I was a student leader of the student group, queer student group.

R.B.
Yes. So then from there, because that was in summer 2016 and you graduated in—

SEBASTIAN
— December 2017.

R.B.
Right. I distinctly remember, as you were doing your cultural entrepreneurship program, many occasions where you would like, pop in my office, plopped on my couch, and you're like, “this is the brainstorm that I'm on right now,” or “this is the big idea that I have at this moment.” And we would just talk, right. And I know jack shit about business building in the way of corporate or LLC type business building. I don't know a lot about 90% of the stuff that you're coming into my office to talk about. But the way that I feel like you and I were able to go on these long brainstorming conversations was that the core motivation behind every idea you had was “how do I develop something with queer and trans folks in mind? How do I develop something that is going to uplift queer and trans people because of all of the existing barriers that exist to queer and trans folks either starting their own businesses or getting their own creations out into the world or accessing funding to be able to start whatever kind of big idea venture that they have in mind.” And even talking to you now, right. It feels like that is still a big motivator behind your coaching to then support queer and trans entrepreneurs. So I feel like what I want to tuck into a bit too, is thinking about all of the iterations of ideas that have maybe taken place between all the times you came into my office and then in this moment with your coaching is like, what are some of those barriers to queer and trans folks, either as entrepreneurs or as content creators or as folks looking to get invested in to be able to do whatever their big idea is?

SEBASTIAN
Yeah, there's definitely a number of obstacles that come to mind, but I feel like some of them have been improved upon. One of them being, like, business knowledge. Gaining different kinds of knowledge is a lot more accessible than it was in past years. Even like past in 2016. Now, like Google, they have a lot of different courses online that people can take social media. There's people putting a lot of free content, free value out there, and then you can purchase and work with a specific person or buy one of those courses to learn more in depth. And so some of the knowledge, there's barriers once you get to a certain level. Foundations, I think the access to Learning Business Foundations is a lot more accessible, but it also is a character trait of are you a researcher? Are you somebody that will be more driven to go out and figure out this information on your own? And do you have that same capability to teach yourself things? So there's a lot of different things at play here. And that isn't always just with the LGBT community, but I feel like with trans folks being heard, especially with our ideas, most of the queer and trans people that I've talked to, their businesses also focus on helping other queer and trans people, whether it's designing specific clothing for that community, whether that is getting them access to different services or providing different services, like web design are done-for-you service providers. So access to funding and then access to loans and understanding what you can do and what you need to get started. Like I said, I think people can learn the basic terminology with business. But we've talked about before is, yeah, I have a degree in cultural entrepreneurship. That doesn't mean that I can go and start a $500 million company. Sure. There's a lot more that goes into it. A big thing is mentorship and representation that I found. So when I mentioned Arlan Hamilton, she's somebody that I look up to as like inspiration because that's one of the few queer people that I have similar values to. I think some people don't always understand too, how hard it can be to get something started. With my first business in college, I won money in a business competition, but it wasn't just given to me, it was through a university. And so they had to, like, if I wanted, I used it to attend a conference and so they bought my plane ticket, the hotel, that kind of stuff. And so I never saw in cash. And so I wanted to buy camera equipment to make content, but they couldn't do that because they're like, well, we have to buy it and then we would technically own it. So that was stupid.

R.B.
Having the wherewithal to put together this presentation to participate in this competition, essentially where then you're allocated funding, but it's restricted funds, right, and so, like, I think—

SEBASTIAN
That you weren't told beforehand would be restricted either

R.B.
Right, like there’s parameters around it, and I think that's a pretty prevalent thing, whether we're talking about nonprofit from my vantage point or any kind of business venture, LLC, independently owned business type situation, or even corporate. Right. It's rare that you're kind of given access to unrestricted funds. And so I think the complexity of what it means for queer and trans folks, especially multiply marginalized queer and trans folks, to whether it's taking out a loan or filing for a grant or whatever ways in which you're trying to accrue funding, if there's restrictions on either what you're allowed to buy would do with that money or how you then access the money or how quickly that money can fall in hand. Right. Like it elongates the time it makes complexity and bureaucracy to like your spending. But then it also, I think, risks. I think about this, especially from the vantage point of nonprofits, is that it makes it so that you kind of are pressured to shift gears around making sure that you're complying with the requirements of the money. I think about a book that my team has read called The Revolution Will Not Be Funded, and it talks about the nonprofit industrial complex where the risk of applying for funding from some major philanthropic foundation is that you're then kind of at the beck and call of that organization's parameters around how you're supposed to spend. And then you have this additional bureaucracy around having to report all of this information about how you're using the money. And there might be other limitations if your values don't align. Exactly. And sometimes, the book, especially, but you see these examples of organizations and agencies kind of changing their politics because they need the money. And it's this really shitty double bind, I think. And so I'm curious for you, like in thinking about when you're coaching folks or your own experiences or what you're hearing or seeing from other folks, kind of in your circles, like, how do you work around all of these restrictions in either funding monetary capital or other types of capital, like social capital, which we definitely wanted to talk about.

SEBASTIAN
Yeah. When it comes to funding capital, I've seen very… various things, whether it's self-funded or people are applying for grants or applying to different competition. Because some corporations will have these competitions where people can pitch their idea and then they get funding and then the corporation gets a pat on the back because they helped a career entrepreneur or a “diverse candidate,” more like it. And so it's one of those things where it's like it sucks to play this game, but at the same time, you have to play the game to gain power in the game, which gets dicey, too. And so I think of just capitalism and the reasons people build businesses. So I want a lot of money because, well, one, it affords me to live comfortably. But also one of my dreams is to be able to walk into a fundraiser and drop $5,000 or $10,000 check without blinking an eye for a cause that I really care about.

R.B.
Sure.

SEBASTIAN
And when you have more money, you have more power. And if more queer people have more money and more power, we can create more change that needs to be seen. Unfortunately, that's the world we live in right now. And so how do we live in the world while still not compromising our values and what we really want to stand for? I've worked with a queer entrepreneur before who they were like, I just want to make this amount of money. But then in my head, I'm like, well, you want to live in this place, but the cost of living in this place… they're trying not to take up space, essentially. What I tell a lot of queer people, too, is take up a lot of space because people don't realize how much money is truly out there. The U.S. is in like trillions of dollars a day. I can't even fathom how much that actually looks like. There is an abundant amount of money out there. It's waiting for us to take it. And so how do we get access to it? And I think this kind of feeds into the social part of it, too, is, we sometimes think that if we are making a bunch of money, that means our other queer entrepreneur over here can't be. It's a zero sum game, right? But that's not the case. And I'm not a sociologist or any kind of that science-y background, but I'm sure that's probably… it was a system that was created by the people in power to keep the people who are not in power without power. And so then that kind of pins people against each other, being like, well, why do you need that much money? When I was working on my business in college, I was talking with some smaller owned trans companies that, I'm like, these are big names in trans circles. And so then, with my business, it was about essentially providing them an additional platform to sell their products. And so to be able to do that, I would need to take some percentage, but they couldn't afford to do that. But in my mind they were like, but you're so well known, you got to be selling a bunch of stuff. But it was really, like, still just two people creating all this apparel, creating all this apparel. And I'm like, it shouldn't be this way. They would usually have another full-time job too. And I'm like, this should be your full-time job. How can we make it so you don't have to have another full-time job? This can be what you want to do. Because what they're doing is helping the queer community so much. And I think now I see Folx Health. I feel like they just kind of sprouted in the last three to five years and they just got a CEO. And so that's huge for the queer and trans community, trans especially because they're helping provide HRT to people all across the country. And so we need more businesses like Folx Health. And so how do we do that? And part of that is helping people create their new identities as entrepreneurs that not only can make a lot of money, but deserve to make a lot of money.

R.B.
I think what I appreciate about that whole idea, too, is that, like, what is this pursuit of queer and trans power building that is inherent to clear and trans justice movement work already, but in the sense that, yes, liberation is alluring and we have to continue to make liberation alluring for folks to get mobilized around wanting to push for the changes that need to happen structurally, systemically, et cetera. Right? So then take that big conceptual idea down to ‘how do we also exist in our current reality where we're not a liberated society.’ Right? Like, folks have to pay bills, folks have to eat, folks have to afford to do certain things. And so that power building around like– I think about how many times you scroll through social media seeing folks as crowdfunding pages because they need groceries all the way up to, especially queer and trans folks, needing access to medications or biomedical transition-related things. And I feel like it's a pretty common phrase now of just like everybody's passing around the same $20 to each other because just like there's not substantive monetary capital that's easily accessible. And I also see a lot of I think about another podcast called Gender Reveal that, as regularly as they can, put together kind of these micro grants to be able to offer out to trans people that there's no catch, right? There's nothing behind that. It's just a simple application to say like, hey, I need money and off they go. And I'm sure they don't have a fat stack of cash necessarily, because that podcast, they've got their Patreon or whatever. They have to be able to get super small donor like payments to be able to pay some bills. And then they sell merch. And just like piecing together all these cash flow streams in a way that just feels inherently queer because that's the model that we have. That's what we're able to do. And I think too, just like with the power building comes all of the complexities of power dynamics around lines of race and class and gender and assumed race and gender. So I don't think anything that you're saying is super clear and easy to do, right? But just as a general idea, like folks need money and so how do we help folks achieve their material needs so that they can also plan for futures and plan for better lives without having to worry about “Where's my next meal coming from?” or “How am I paying next month's rent?”

SEBASTIAN
One of my things with coaching is I want to build queer wealth through entrepreneurship. And there's many ways to help people, queer people build wealth. My way of doing it right now is through coaching people to build their own businesses and grow their own businesses if they already have them. And going off of what you talked about with that podcast and how they'll have like little micro grants, it got me thinking about how a lot of businesses, right away when they start, and I'm talking specifically queer and trans businesses, especially if they have like products, they'll be like, I'll donate 20% of my revenue to some kind of organization or granting some kind of charitable thing. But that doesn't help the business right away because it takes like three to five years for a business to be profitable if it's going to survive. And so I'm thinking the bigger business that you have, the bigger impact you can have, because then you can give more money. And so if giving right away, it's kind of like filling your own bucket before filling somebody else's. Fill up your bucket so you can have the most capital to give later.

R.B.
Sure. Okay.

SEBASTIAN
And an analogy I can't remember where I heard this, but it was somebody who was… I think it's probably adapted from some telephone game, you know how it goes. But it's the same idea of, if you're giving all of your bricks away to help other people build their house, well, now you have no bricks to build your house. And so getting your stuff in order so then you can contribute more later on. And there's other ways to give and not monetarily right away. And so for me, it's giving pro-bono sessions and helping people that can't afford to pay for my services right now because we also don't want to discount ourselves too much, especially people with those– using a term that I haven't heard before but the multi-marginalized. Mult— marginalized.

R.B.
Multiply marginalized, yeah.

SEBASTIAN
Multiply marginalized. Yeah. And so especially like, folks like that who it's like they're already being disadvantaged in how society is treating them. And so why ask them to discount further whatever they're going to offer instead of building themselves up so they can be secure and safe and then they can be in a better place to help others? And so that's how I approach it. Not everyone's going to agree with that. And that's okay, because there's so many different ways to approach problems and a lot of gray area. And as long as one way isn't actively harming another, then people are just going to approach things differently. And you don't have to work with somebody you don't agree with.

R.B.
When you mentioned earlier, right, like the idea that if someone's kind of getting a coin or kind of getting their stuff hyped up, that it inherently takes away from another. I think when we talk about racialized, class and gendered lines, there is some reality of that. But that's a structural issue like that's a systemic oppression issue that we're led to believe / also, the distribution of wealth along racialized lines is real. And, to the general point of like, what does it mean to power build and build social and financial capital as queer and trans people as it relates to justice work, right? And that scarcity model. Ii=t makes me think about some of the really interesting pushback that I saw take place… I forget when, sometime in the past handful of months, because time is fake during this pandemic living. But there was this pushback because Patrisse Cullors, the co-founder of Black Lives Matter, had bought a house. And I don't remember the sticker price of this house because I have no conception of what houses cost. But she bought a house and folks were like,” you're supposed to be doing justice work.” Like “you're supposed to be doing inclusivity work.” “How are you going to saunter off and pay X amount of dollars to buy this home? Apparently, I think she also has other properties, et cetera. And I think about that in relation to scarcity model that I think there's also this pressure that if folks are aspiring to kind of achieve a different way of living that doesn't look like you're in the struggle, then you get pushback. And I'm reminded of a session I went to with Dominique Morgan, who's the executive director of Black and Pink, based in Omaha, Nebraska. And the session was kind of about some of the operational and philosophical choices that the organization made. And she was talking about how when she came in as executive director, she was making somewhere in the realm of 50K. And as she came in and was kind of analyzing the priorities of the organization, she made an effective decision to bump everybody's pay, but also to pay herself as an executive director. Like six figures. Right. And she was talking about how she's someone who is system-impacted, has a history with the criminal injustice system. And now she's executive director of this organization doing work that is intended to create change around the criminal injustice system. And so she doesn't feel like she has to be someone who continues to live in struggle monetarily when she's doing this work. And there's enough capital within the organization to be able to achieve their organizational goals towards justice work and also pay everybody a reasonable wage, including herself as a Black trans woman. Right. So those two anecdotes, which are also messy because these are Black queer and trans women who are multiply marginalized and should be able to get all the coin that they can for the work that they're doing and the labor they do. But I think that idea, the idea of “if you don't look like you're living in the struggle, then you're not doing justice work” is messy, but something that I feel like it's probably pretty commonplace among your average queer and trans person, which I think makes it hard for folks to figure out how to be supportive of people who have figured out ways to build personal capital because we haven't quite figured out ways to level up everybody's capital because of systemic oppression. It's this very self beating, shitty, cyclical thing of like, well, you look like you're doing fine. So why are you also asking for money for top surgery or you own a car? What do you mean? You can't afford groceries, right?

SEBASTIAN
Yeah. It's very messy.

R.B.
[LAUGHS]

SEBASTIAN
And there's no clear answer on any of it. But I definitely have seen that. And I think I saw it more so even when I was in college, because in college, most people don't have a lot of money to begin with and then multiply that being queer, trans, and either coming from a low-income background or just not having parents that are supportive of you to help pay for anything, it gets harder. And I think part of that too, is once you are somebody that's making more money and can afford more luxury items—and luxury is a very subjective term here—the guilt that you might feel because of that. And so I've talked to others about this not even being queer and trans, but just also coming from a low-income background, how do you deal when you're making more money than even maybe your parents have ever made in their life? And the different dynamics that can come from that. Now, that's not exactly what we talk about with the community part, but it's a similar idea of your power has changed while people you care about their power hasn't. And I feel like when we talk about power here, it feels kind of icky, it doesn't feel great, but it is kind of the reality that's coming with the situation right now. And, like we've already said, it's messy. And so, I'm not as up on a lot of social justice movements, especially the people in them. Like, I didn't know about the house, that kind of deal. But I think that's where you and I kind of complement each other. We come in from these different angles and see how it's affecting people. And so even if it's people that are directly, like you said in the struggle, and I'm thinking of even since I'm in the Twin Cities living right outside Minneapolis, and after George Floyd was murdered and all the people that came out and protested here, you have people that maybe were directly out protesting, and then there's people that were supportive, but they weren't out protesting. And that struggle feel can impact them both. Can impact them both differently. And then especially when you have those multiple marginalized identities, it just adds to it. Whether you're out there directly doing a lot of the advocacy work, the activism in the streets or you're at home and moreof a vocal online, or just a supporter, you might have different feelings of how much money you think you deserve based on what other people are making. So it's kind of like the opposite of comparison by way of thinking that you're not good enough by looking at somebody else. It's going the other way, if that makes sense.

R.B.
Yeah, I think because there's so much ick, I think, that affects all marginalized people, right? We're able to talk from the perspective of queer and trans people. That scarcity model really makes it easy, I think, to kind of look at someone else's success and say, “well, why do you deserve this when I'm not getting what I need?” And I think makes it tricky for folks to be forthcoming with supporting other people, with achieving their goals, because it's like, well, I think I'm wondering if it's like a trust issue. Right. Even if you're maybe to your analogy earlier, if you're someone who's ready to give other folks bricks to do their building and you want to secure some for yourself, is there enough trust within your ecosystem to say, is there a way for everybody to get the amount of bricks that they need when we come upon a supply of bricks? Like, there's enough to go around.

SEBASTIAN
Like, we're all just trying to hoard what we need instead of thinking of what's best for everybody.

R.B.
Yeah, right? And that's conditioned. And that's conditioned into people, I think because of individualization, because of meritocracy, because of all the things that we could name about just how our society currently functions. Which is why I think queer and trans people and other communities that are impacted by systemic oppression do have to configure these new models of existing, these new models of doing things just because we're not being served by existing structures, governmentally, societally, all those things, right? So, I also think about in the context of the pandemic and how that kind of impacts queer and trans folks who are maybe not even at a place where they're trying to power-build to be able to achieve a level of comfortability in their financial lives, but just being able to pay the bare minimum of their bills is that we're seeing what's being called “the Great Resignation.” Like, folks are leaving their jobs. Right. We also know that queer and trans folks are disproportionately represented. Young queer and trans folks especially are disproportionately represented among service sector-type jobs, like restaurant service industry-type jobs, which are people interfacing-type jobs. So they're at higher risk of contracting COVID-19. Right. That's the gist. And so during this mass exodus of folks dipping out of jobs because of XYZ reasons, I'm anticipating, and I haven't seen as much of this data, but I'm anticipating that we're going to see folks who are probably starting up their own businesses ventures side hustles that become main hustles. Right. Like, whatever the case is. And so from your vantage point, what does that inevitable shift in the landscape of folks job prospects, business ventures, business building mean for the next handful of years of queer entrepreneurship, queer business building, queer networking, et cetera?

SEBASTIAN
So the gig economy has been around for a while. When I was in college, in undergrad, we talked about the gig economy. And then this pandemic, I think has really shown that it's here to stay. I would imagine that a high percentage, especially of queer and trans folks will at some point in time if they haven't already exchanged a service or a product of their own creation for money. So a side hustle, freelance. And another thought that I was thinking, so I have another day job and one of the higher-up leaders… it's a corporation, so one of the C-suite folks was doing a presentation. And what she said was [that] the skills that people had, like how people would stay out of business at one company for 20 to 30 years and then retire to their pension, whatever, and do the same skill. Well, those skills that they have, they're only lasting like three years now. Okay. So your skill that you're using today, it's only going to last like three years.

R.B.
That's fine. [LAUGH]

SEBASTIAN
Yeah, it's great. Right. And so people are constantly, especially, I think younger folks, already know and are already used to, having to constantly evolve and adapt to the situations. And there's just some numbers I saw recently, actually about in the last, uh, I think it was the numbers for 2020 or 2021. Either way, a pandemic year. How there are more businesses created in the U.S. than in previous years. And I predict that there's going to be more and more.

R.B.
Which makes sense. And I recently came across a study that was talking about that, like, Gen Z and millennials, especially younger millennials, whatever that means. Now, I'm assuming that's us. We've talked about how I don't care about generational differences, but the study talked about Gen Z, millennials, circa this pandemic are really at a place where they have an appetite for greater flexibility in their work schedules. I think I'm definitely an advocate that the 9 to 5 or 8 to 4:30 workday should just be abolished. Like that's not realistic to expect people to be actively productive during those span. We're not paying people for commuting to and from their jobs, which is egregious. Right. I think that for all of the disaster that has been this pandemic, I think that it has definitely opened up some necessary conversations around what we mean by workplace, what we mean by a job, and what we mean by meaningful work, for meaningful pay. And so I agree, I think that just like we're going to continue to see workplaces have to embed a true sense of flexibility, because I would say that I'm in a workplace that is using flexibility in a much more rigid sense than that word should apply, but really just kind of having to concede that we're going to have to look at things differently and if workplaces aren't willing to shift to do that. But there's a lot of models in place for folks to be able to conceptualize their own workplace environment that satisfies what they need, that satisfies a pace. That means that you get to wake up and own your morning instead of wake up and have to catch a bus and transport yourself to work for a certain amount of time or to caffeinate yourself because you need to wake up at an obscene hour to be able to participate in your workplace. All of these factors that really just are some of the most sickening byproducts of late stage capitalism. And it's something that we talked about wanting to touch on a bit is just, like, another one of the tools that you've used or that we talked about is kind of important and that is also drastically evolving and also is a place where queer and trans young folks are widely represented in social media as a tool for marketing or as a tool for connecting with other folks who do comparable work or messaging around some of these things that we're talking about are just like, how do you demonstrate to other people that there's other ways to do what they want to do that doesn't require having to sell their soul to a workplace that doesn't actually value them as a person? What? So for you, you use social media very intentionally and you create very intentional content. So what has that process been for you in using social media as a tool to promote your message of what you're about in regards to your coaching?

SEBASTIAN
Social media is definitely a double edged sword.

R.B.
Certainly.

SEBASTIAN
And as you're talking about that and staging that question, it got me thinking. It was Instagram we talked about earlier. I don't know how young Instagram SKUs anymore we'll be on the younger end of millennials. But I used to use my personal Instagram a lot. I was really trying to build that up and had it public. And sometime last year I was like, I'm going to remove all these people that I don't know. I made it private and I haven't posted in months on my private, personal Instagram. And I only use my coaching. And with my coaching Instagram, I've made a lot of good friends, a lot of very important community that helps me move forward. Over the last year, I started my coaching Instagram when I started coaching just about a year ago now. It's amazing the people that I've met, I don't remember how I met some of these people. I just started following. And then there's recommendations, looking at hashtags all this stuff. And I found this thing called the Queer Impact Collective, which is a group of queer entrepreneurs and change makers led by Megs… on Instagram, it's Megs the Connector, and she made the community very intentionally. And so it's a monthly membership for the circle community. But the real value in it is there's three to four Zoom meetups she hosts every month and they've evolved. And now there's some topic based ones. There's Masterminds, there's just general networking where you see what everyone's doing and you can feed off of each other's energy, hype each other up, do referrals. I had a money coach last year that I worked with and I introduced her to the Queer Impact Collective. And she's gotten really involved. Through the Queer Impact Collective is how I found a book to contribute to the thriving and business strategies for the LGBTQ+ Entrepreneur that was published last year. And so it can be used for really amazing things. And back when I was, oh man, I've been out as some shade of queer for like twelve years now. And I remember using Tumblr connections, not really Facebook. It was mostly Tumblr at that time. And then in college, some Facebook groups became more of a thing. And then I met other people and so I learned a lot about myself and made connections with other queer and trans people across the country, across the world because of social media. And I'm sure a lot of people listening to this really resonate with that, especially if they come from an area that doesn't have a strong queer and trans community or active, because sometimes I have some friends that are queer and trans, but they just, well, they aren't visibly-so, how you like sense of dyed hair and non mainstream clothing type stuff? I think people get what I say when not visibly queer.

R.B.
[CHUCKLE] Not as many cues being projected.

SEBASTIAN
And it's not a huge part of their identity. And it really depends on what stage of life you are at, too. So when I was in college and when we met, being queer and especially trans was a big part of my identity. It's something that I thought about so much throughout the day and now that I got solidified in who I am and then just in other things, it's not something that is… it’s front of mind in the work that I do, but it's my own personal identity. It's not as front of mind like, oh yeah, I'm queer and trans, but it's not something that I'm constantly worrying about and have like, heightened awareness of other people present to me a certain way. Also because I've been on hormones for a lot, for many years, and so I am cis-assumed most places I go.

R.B.
I think one of the key things that is important based on the story you're sharing and that I also value social media for, is that for queer and trans folks, it definitely is a tool for building community. Especially if you're in, like you said, spaces where it's harder to access community or you're not sure where to start or you have questions or you're looking for possibility models. Something that I was griping about earlier when we were chatting though, is that what's getting me a bit antsy is that we are seeing, not that this is brand new, but what I feel like is absolutely happening is that social media platforms are really prioritizing, like marketing and content creator and business users, which makes sense because that's a huge saturation of who is on there. But what I'm worried about is that what does that mean for the community building aspect when you're trying to build community, not around, “hey, can you pay for my service?” Or “hey, can you buy my product?” Or “hey, can you pay for whatever experience I'm offering?” It's truly just for the sake of like, “I'm trying to connect and build an ecosystem of people or engage with other folks like me.” So hoping to not see social media evolve to a place where we're past the point where folks can build that community and then also opt in to engagement with content that has to do with being pitched to pay for something because that should be there, could be there but social media, because they want to make money, are definitely prioritizing the people who are also trying to make money. So then, in addition to the community building aspect that we are very aware of social media offering, thinking about the potential, too, of folks using social media to kind of broadcast their message, whether they're an educator, an author, a content creator, a queer entrepreneurship coach. Something I also wanted to touch base on with you is what thought process do you go through to ensure that your messaging does not kind of play into what I was calling toxic positivity? Right. Like the example I gave you is that when folks were getting stimulus checks, the Twitter discourse, one train of thought was, “well, you should take your stimulus check and you should invest” or “you should start an LLC,” or “you should do something that's going to project you further in your professional career goals.” Whereas other folks were like, “hold up, we've got bills to pay, or I can't pay all my bills with this anyway. So maybe I am going to go buy something frivolous or something that is not going to I'm going to go buy a TV or I'm going to go buy a Kayak” or you know what I mean? Like folks being given the option to do whatever they wanted with these random not enough money to actually cover the cost of living stimulus checks. So the core question there was, how do you approach ensuring that your content is really mindful of the fact that there's mess in the process to achieving whatever definition of success someone has?

SEBASTIAN
Something that you told me when I was in college that I always come back to…

R.B.
Oh no, what did I say?! [LAUGHS]

SEBASTIAN
“You can’t please everybody.”

R.B.
Oh my gosh!

SEBASTIAN
So that's something that I always remember because, and then another thing in marketing is when you're marketing and trying to please everybody, you please and market to nobody. Okay? And so you can't create a message that's going to satisfy everybody, but you can create a message that is going to positively, ideally positively, impact your ideal market. And so another rule that from people who actually give a shit and people that I follow is that you put out way more value than you do pitching. If you never pitch, if you never put out your offer, no one's ever going to buy it. So you have to put out your offer, you have to pitch people. Otherwise, yeah, you're never going to sell anything. And then you're not going to make money. And then what's the point? Then you're not even really an entrepreneur. You're not a business, but you need to be able to put out value too, and making sure it's actually valuable. And so what you were talking about, the toxic positivity, I'm not putting out stuff saying “if you just believe you can do it,” because that's complete trash. Belief is a huge part of it. Like doing belief work, which is really how I think that self trust, work, trust that you can actually create something of value that other people are going to value that you can make money from, that you can make a living off of. But what that does when you create that self trust that generates you doing actions that are going to continue with that. It's kind of the idea with manifesting. I think manifesting is a very tossed around word that people don't quite know what it is. The person that I follow, I forget if this is her actual username, Wholehearted Coaching, and her coaching work is really around manifestation, actually honoring where it's come from and like the cultural connections with it. But what it is, when you manifest, you think of what you want and why you want it. That's it. You don't do the how. The universe is going to provide the how, as long as you're clear on the what and the why. Because when you're also clear on those, you're naturally going to take more actions that are going to fulfill that “how.” I'm a person that believes like things are connected in the universe, everything we do, there's a reaction to it, there's a consequence. All that stuff is connected. And so I believe in this. I think what people don't always take into account is when you do all that work and actually, truly and your gut believe, and I'm not saying all of a sudden, no, trust me, I believe, I believe I can do this. I've done that to myself. And it's like, and you know what I had to show for it? Nothing. A lot of lessons learned. It's a continuous work in progress. Because when you develop and get a deeper understanding of what believing in yourself means and what trusting in yourself means,and I see results happen and then it's going to be like, “oh wow, this is actually working!” And I feel like that can also relate to coming out as queer and trans. Once you finally accept, this is who I am, this is the path that I want to take. And it's even exploring your gender expression and it's fluid. It can change for a lot of people and how they want to express themselves and being okay with allowing that to happen.

R.B.
You can have your site set on something along, on the horizon that's currently maybe unachievable, based on resources, based on systemic oppression, based on not having the current knowledge set or skill set to figure out exactly how you're going to get there. Right. But I think that what I'm gleaning from what you're saying, right, when talking about how to message, whether it's through social media or it's through a book or it's through a newsletter or through whatever podcast, if you're in a place where you're trying to coach or encourage folks to work towards whatever that goal on the horizon it’s, I imagine too, about managing expectations and understanding that there's not like A) one size fits all method in which you're going to land there. And B), it's not going to be smooth sailing. Right. Because as we know, as trans people, there's so much complexity to being able to own your transness on your own terms. Right? Like perceptions of other people. If you're looking to access biomedical transition treatments, the gatekeeping is rife in the medical healthcare system. If you're looking to live your best life, there's lots of existing barriers at play that want to not let you do that. And so I would imagine, right, whether it's a business or an LLC or a nonprofit organization or some kind of mutual aid project—because we're definitely seeing a stronger emergence of those—whether it's some kind of… whatever the project is, especially for queer and trans people, there's going to be a lot of adversity to achieving it. And also besides the adversity, what is very much evidenced by you going from talking about an online commerce site that populates other queer and trans folks'products into one space versus now doing this queer coaching to support queer and trans entrepreneurs into actualizing their goals and navigating how they'd like to proceed with their big “Why” is that you learn a lot about yourself in the process that influences changes to what that final product, or at least the checkpoint of getting to the first big accolade looks like. Because what you and I talked about six, five, four years ago, right, is very different than what you're doing now. But that's not a failure, that's you learning about what was possible and stumbling upon other things that opened up different possibilities for you to say that actually vibrates in my soul differently and maybe even better than what course I was currently on. And then you shifted courses.

SEBASTIAN
Pivoting and changing course does not mean that you failed.

R.B.
No.

SEBASTIAN
And I think that's something in business…. what's the… “giving up versus quitting.” So when I think of someone that they're giving up on something, it's a lot more desperate. Everything is just like downtrodden, they can't do it anymore. And it's a lot more internal. Like they just aren't feeling strong enough anymore. Versus quitting, knowing when something just isn't working. And that was like my business. The market was too small. The people that I wanted to work with, they just couldn't at that moment in time. And all those businesses, they're still around today. I think they've ramped up a little bit. Still nowhere near probably what they could be. And I hope they continue to grow and just get bigger and bigger. But quitting, it's not a bad thing because you learn a lot in the process, and it's very intentional being like “it's time to hang this up.” And it was hard for me to hang up that first business because that was my first one I was really trying to make work. But in the end, I know it's the right thing to do because now I'm like, super passionate about coaching and helping other people in this way. It's like something that I look forward to. And every time I get off a call with somebody, I'm like, “this is why I do this,” because they get all these insights. And just knowing when to quit versus what it feels like to give up. It's a totally different feeling and it's going to happen. You're going to probably experience both.

R.B.
I think that's what's important about the approach you take specifically through Instagram, because that's one of your primary vessels at this time for messaging, is that you are honest about the ways in which someone can get tripped up along this process. You're not keeping it a secret that once upon a time you had a completely different project that you were working on. But, like I said at the beginning of our conversation is that, even though that was not the project that sustained to this moment as the project you're currently doing, the impetus behind wanting to build that project around platforming and supporting queer and trans content creators and merchandisers and whatever folks would have had their stuff populated to that site, there's some comparable objectives between that project plan and like this one, where the goal and the idea is still you want to see queer and trans folks succeed in whatever their passion project is and whatever their professional project is, which I think is important. Again, I think that you're really transparent about like there's going to be a lot of things that trip people up in this process, and then you try to offer tools that aren't behind a paywall, right, to say like here's some food for thought, or here's a question you should ask yourself, or here's a lesson that I learned based on my own experience and you're using that as a possibility model, displaying to say things are possible. I'm not saying that they're not possible and that anything could be possible, but it's not just going to land in your lap and be there for you because you wish it upon yourself.

SEBASTIAN
I like what you said about the possibility model, because the stuff that I put out on social media isn't going to work for everybody. And everyone's situation is different, and different people are going to have different obstacles. And so the obstacles that I went through, even if you didn't have the same obstacle, there's probably something that you can resonate with and then you can generate insight from. So the big thing with coaching is generating your own insights. People don't always understand what the difference between like a coach and an advisor or consultant is. So a coach, I don't tell you what to do. Really, you have 95% of the answers that you need inside of you already and you just need to help getting them out. And so you might rebut and say, “Well, I don't know how to make a business.” I'm like “I'm sure you know where to go to get started to look” and then once you get started to go and look there that's going to lead you down some other paths to keep going and researching and figuring it out. That's what some people, they need that person that's going to hold them accountable to even take those actions.

R.B.
So to take us towards closing thinking about how your target audience is queer and trans folks, either as entrepreneurs or whatever language they'd like to use for themselves, what would you offer as kind of the top word of wisdom message, specifically for that audience that you think is so important that they need to hear.

SEBASTIAN
The same thing that you told me: you can't please everybody.

R.B.
[LAUGH]

SEBASTIAN
It's so huge, especially when you are building a business. You are putting yourself out there. You are opening yourself up for criticism from people across the world or down the street, and it's going to happen. The more followers you have on social media, the more products that you're selling, someone and their mom is going to have an opinion about it, and so take everything with a grain of salt but keep an open mind.

R.B.
Amazing. Well, I'm glad that I've had the fortune of watching six years of this process and I'm excited to see what the next six years, or whatever it looks like, even though like I said, time is fake. Where can folks find you to learn more about your work or follow along in your continued process?

SEBASTIAN
Yeah, so across social media and my website, coachbastian.co.

R.B.
Well, again, I appreciate your friend and I'll talk to you later.

[OUTRO MUSIC STARTS]

R.B.
Our inbox is open for all of your insight, feedback, questions, boycotts, memes and other forms of written correspondence. You can contact us at [e-mail]. This podcast is made possible by the labor and commitment of the Midwest Institute for Sexuality and Gender Diversity staff. Particular shout out to Justin, Andy and Nick for all of your support with editing, promotion and production. Our amazing and queer as fuck cover art was designed by Adrienne McCormick.

[END MUSIC]