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Kris Carr was 31 when she was diagnosed with a rare, incurable stage four sarcoma. More than 20 years later, her tumors remain stable and her work has helped people around the world take a more active, compassionate role in their health.
Kris Carr was 31 when she was diagnosed with a rare, incurable stage four sarcoma. More than 20 years later, her tumors remain stable and her work has helped people around the world take a more active, compassionate role in their health.
In this episode of hol+ with Dr. Taz MD, Kris shares how she moved from fear and uncertainty toward self-trust, acceptance, and a whole-person definition of healing. She explains what it meant to become the CEO of her health, find doctors she trusted, explore integrative care, and change her relationship with food and her body.
But Kris’s biggest turning point came about 10 years into her journey. Despite good scans and a thriving career, she realized she still felt like a failure because she had not made cancer disappear. That moment led her to distinguish between curing and healing, and to begin caring for her mind and emotional life as intentionally as she cared for her physical body.
Kris and Dr. Taz discuss grief, fear, anger, trauma, perimenopause, gut health, stress, supplement overwhelm, and the five foundational wellness pillars that can make healthy living feel more practical and accessible.
In this episode:
- Receiving a rare stage four cancer diagnosis at 31
- Becoming the CEO of your health without rejecting medical care
- Finding supportive food and lifestyle practices through trial and error
- Making peace with food after years of deprivation and body pressure
- Moving from what you are eating to what is eating you
- Understanding the difference between curing and healing
- Building emotional literacy around grief, anger, fear, and shame
- Simplifying wellness through five foundational pillars
- Starting with stress support and gut health when everything feels overwhelming
About Kris Carr:
Kris Carr is a New York Times bestselling author, wellness leader, and cancer thriver. Her wellness journey began in 2003, when she was diagnosed with a rare stage four cancer. Since then, she has dedicated her work to helping people take an active, compassionate role in their health and care for the whole person: body, mind, and spirit.
Kris is the author of seven books covering cancer support, plant-forward nutrition, wellness, and emotional health. Her latest book, I’m Not a Mourning Person, explores grief, loss, and the difficult emotions that emerge when life changes unexpectedly. She is also the host of the Made to Thrive podcast and the founder of a wellness community offering education, coaching, and practical resources.
Connect with Kris Carr:
About Dr. Taz:
Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz) is a triple board-certified integrative medicine physician, bestselling author, and founder of hol+, a multi-location integrative medicine practice.
Learn more: https://doctortaz.com/about
Stay Connected:
Connect further with hol+ at https://holplus.co/ and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated on future episodes of hol+.
Connect further with hol+ at https://holplus.co/ and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated on future episodes of hol+.
Book a Hol+ Consultation:
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Creators and Guests
Host
What is hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic?
hol+ with Dr. Taz MD is redefining modern medicine through a comprehensive, evidence-based holistic approach; integrating functional medicine, integrative medicine, and time-tested healing systems to treat the whole human, not just symptoms.
Hosted by Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz), triple board-certified physician in integrative, functional, and holistic medicine, bestselling Penguin Random House author, and founder of hol+; a comprehensive evidence-based holistic medicine platform with clinics in Atlanta, New York City, and Los Angeles, and virtual care available nationwide.
At the heart of hol+ is a revolutionary framework: the Five Body Map- physical, mental, emotional, energetic, and social/community bodies that create whole health. This whole-human approach connects hormone imbalances, gut dysfunction, microinflammation, cortisol dysregulation, metabolic disease, autoimmune conditions, perimenopause, and stress-driven illness to the full spectrum of who we are; body, mind, and spirit.
Each episode explores Dr. Taz’s original clinical frameworks ;The Cortisol Loop, Microinflammation, and The Invisible Load alongside conversations with leading experts, celebrities, and thought leaders including Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, Katherine Schwarzenegger, Cameron Mathison, Carol Alt, Jane Seymour, Tamsen Fadal, and Kris Carr.
Topics include hormone health, gut health, GLP-1 and metabolic therapy, thyroid dysfunction, weight loss, inflammation, autoimmune disease, mental and emotional wellness, energetic health, and the future of holistic medicine.
This is the show where science and spirit converge- driving health, happiness, relationships, and family ecosystems.
Want to go deeper? Join Dr. Taz’s private community, the hol+ Circle ; medicine beyond the exam room. (holplus.co/circle)
A 2025 Webby Award honoree, recognized alongside the Mel Robbins Podcast in the 29th Annual Webby Awards, hol+ is built on the foundation of Super Woman Wellness, which surpassed 1 million downloads over 8 years.
This is medicine beyond the exam room. Welcome to hol+
[00:00:00] Kris Carr: I've been living with stage four cancer for 20 years now. I think that especially as women, we're all so [00:00:05] powerful. Mm, I like that. And we undervalue our power in such a big way, and we give our [00:00:10] power away. And oftentimes we don't even recognize our power until the shizzle hits the [00:00:15] fan. Mm. I think we've lost our way when it comes to s- sort of the basics and the getting back to [00:00:20] nature and back to the foundation and back to the garden.
[00:00:22] Kris Carr: I really equated food with, like, [00:00:25] deprivation. You can't have that. You have to be on a constant diet, and I had a lot of [00:00:30] issues around food, and I think that cancer helped me to make peace with my plate.
[00:00:34] Dr. Taz: Hearing the [00:00:35] word cancer is a devastating diagnosis at any age, and as a physician, [00:00:40] I have sat with many patients who find out for the first time that they are dealing with [00:00:45] cancer or may be a little bit further along in their journey.
[00:00:47] Dr. Taz: Well, over the 20 years that I've been in [00:00:50] practice, we're only seeing more and more cancer, and unfortunately, we are seeing it [00:00:55] younger and younger. That's why I am thrilled to introduce you to my guest, [00:01:00] Kris Carr, who you might already know. She's a New York Times bestselling author. [00:01:05] She's written seven books, a 20-year cancer survivor, and she's been called [00:01:10] a force of nature by O Magazine and was named a new role model by [00:01:15] The New York Times.
[00:01:16] Dr. Taz: She's a member of Oprah's SuperSoul 100, recognizing the [00:01:20] most influential thought leaders of today. Her work has been featured in Forbes, The Wall [00:01:25] Street Journal, Glamour, Good Morning America, the Today Show, and so many other [00:01:30] media appearances and television shows. Kris teaches people how to take back their health and [00:01:35] live like they mean it.
[00:01:36] Dr. Taz: Her work will change the way
[00:01:38] Dr. Taz: you live, love, [00:01:40] and eat. Welcome to the show, Kris.
[00:01:43] Dr. Taz: I'm a bit giddy at the [00:01:45] moment I have been following your work for years. I think you're [00:01:50] phenomenal. I know that you've made such a dent in the space around holistic health, but [00:01:55] specifically holistic oncology. But you have your own story, and for those of [00:02:00] you who don't know the incredible Kris Carr, you guys are missing out.
[00:02:04] Dr. Taz: And I know [00:02:05] your story started in 2003, and I honestly didn't enter this [00:02:10] space until, until maybe 2006, 2007. And I [00:02:15] think people like you were an inspiration to me as I was trying to put pieces of my own [00:02:20] story together and trying to figure out which way to go. So personally, I couldn't be more [00:02:25] excited.
[00:02:25] Dr. Taz: Professionally, I can't wait for what you have to share [00:02:30] with our audience. But I want you to share your story. How did you even enter into the [00:02:35] world of holistic health? You know, I want you to tell that story.
[00:02:39] Kris Carr: Well, thank [00:02:40] you, and I'm a big fan of yours, and I've been so benefited by your work, especially now that [00:02:45] I- Oh,
[00:02:45] Dr. Taz: thank
[00:02:45] Kris Carr: you
[00:02:45] Kris Carr: am 53 and on a different health journey. I'm right
[00:02:48] Dr. Taz: there with you.
[00:02:49] Kris Carr: And you're [00:02:50] one of my gurus, and so this is a really magical moment for me, too.
[00:02:53] Dr. Taz: Oh.
[00:02:54] Kris Carr: Yeah. I
[00:02:54] Dr. Taz: love it. I [00:02:55] love it.
[00:02:55] Kris Carr: So you and I were kibitzing a little bit. My journey started on [00:03:00] Valentine's Day- Mm ... in 2003, and that's when I was diagnosed with a rare and [00:03:05] incurable stage four cancer.
[00:03:07] Kris Carr: And so I've been living with stage four cancer for 20 years [00:03:10] now. But back at the time- 'Cause you
[00:03:12] Dr. Taz: were how old
[00:03:13] Kris Carr: at that time? I was 31. [00:03:15] 31 at that time. Yeah, so. Okay.
[00:03:16] Dr. Taz: Young woman.
[00:03:17] Kris Carr: Young woman. Okay. And because I have a rare [00:03:20] disease, oftentimes there's very little known about rare cancer specifically [00:03:25] because there aren't many of us, there isn't much funding for research, and so [00:03:30] the progress is very slow.
[00:03:32] Kris Carr: And at the time when I was diagnosed, the first [00:03:35] doctor suggested a triple organ transplant. Mm-hmm. So I have tumors in both of my lungs and [00:03:40] my liver.
[00:03:40] Dr. Taz: What type of cancer? Do you mind
[00:03:41] Kris Carr: sharing? I have a sarcoma. Sarcoma. So a rare sarcoma. And [00:03:45] um, I didn't know much about medicine. I knew nothing about- Mm-hmm
[00:03:48] Kris Carr: medicine, but I thought, [00:03:50] "That's not a good idea." And s- it was really that moment where I decided I [00:03:55] had to, what I call it now, is becoming the CEO of your health. Yes. And building [00:04:00] your team, and stepping in that leadership role and saying, "I'm in charge, hire, fire. I know the [00:04:05] most about my body." And I looked for somebody, I looked for a doctor who not only had his [00:04:10] finger on the pulse of research, but was kind and had a good bedside manner- Mm-hmm
[00:04:13] Kris Carr: and wasn't radical and [00:04:15] all. You know, and it took a bit. The- and I got a lot more, you know, "You've got 10 years to live." [00:04:20] Ugh. All the different things that- The sentence ... the different doctors said. Um, and I finally found [00:04:25] my second in command, and he suggested a really radical approach, which was, "Let's [00:04:30] do nothing."
[00:04:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. "
[00:04:31] Kris Carr: We're gonna watch and wait and let cancer make the first move," because [00:04:35] the disease I have can be slow-growing, but it, it can also be aggressive and it can also change. [00:04:40] And-
[00:04:40] Dr. Taz: But let's just talk about, okay, you're 30 years old. I don't wanna let this go. You're 30 years [00:04:45] old, and you get a diagnosis of the C word- Mm
[00:04:48] Dr. Taz: cancer, which to this day, no [00:04:50] matter how old you are-
[00:04:51] Kris Carr: It's terrifying ...
[00:04:52] Dr. Taz: terrifies everybody, right? You're sort of like, "Well, [00:04:55] how long do I have? What's gonna happen next? You know, where do I go? What do I do?" In [00:05:00] 2003, for all of you watching and listening, 2003 was the dark [00:05:05] ages when it comes to- It really was.
[00:05:07] Dr. Taz: When it comes to, like, health and wellness, right? We [00:05:10] were still sort of like, "Do what the doctor tells you to do." Yeah. You know, follow orders, [00:05:15] follow directions. If you don't do something, then it was gonna be damnation and all the other [00:05:20] things that come after that. So when someone tells you to do nothing, [00:05:25] isn't that scary?
[00:05:26] Kris Carr: It was scary because I didn't know anybody [00:05:30] like me. I thought you got a diagnosis, you did treatment, you were hopeful that it would [00:05:35] work, and then you got back to your life, whether you liked that life or not. And the fact that [00:05:40] I couldn't make it go away-
[00:05:42] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:05:42] Kris Carr: was, it was, I often say that [00:05:45] it's probably my biggest spiritual practice, which is learning acceptance-
[00:05:48] Dr. Taz: Mm
[00:05:48] Kris Carr: and learning how to [00:05:50] go the distance with something that I'd prefer not to go the distance with, [00:05:55] but to learn how to love and take care of myself anyway.
[00:05:57] Dr. Taz: Ooh,
[00:05:57] Kris Carr: I like that. And not be resentful or feel like my [00:06:00] body's let me down, or all of the different places that we go. Um, and that took a long [00:06:05] time to get there, but I think another thing that happened was because there was nothing I [00:06:10] can do in the tracking period- I felt [00:06:15] so out of control- Mm-hmm
[00:06:16] Kris Carr: that I needed- I can
[00:06:16] Dr. Taz: imagine ...
[00:06:17] Kris Carr: to have some sense of control, and that's [00:06:20] when I started on my holistic path. I literally, I left the hospital that [00:06:25] day, and I went to Whole Foods Market.
[00:06:26] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:27] Kris Carr: I had no idea what I was doing. Like, [00:06:30] vegetables terrified me. So why- Kale was
[00:06:31] Dr. Taz: terrifying ... so why Whole Foods? Like, what c- what were you doing before?
[00:06:34] Dr. Taz: What was [00:06:35] your career before?
[00:06:35] Kris Carr: I was an actress. I was a dancer. I was a photographer. I was living in New York City. [00:06:40] I was existing on fake food, fast food- Ah ... takeout.
[00:06:43] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:06:43] Kris Carr: Health was about- The
[00:06:44] Dr. Taz: life.
[00:06:44] Kris Carr: [00:06:45] Yeah. It was about what you eat to stay skinny for auditions.
[00:06:49] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:06:50]
[00:06:50] Kris Carr: It wasn't, like, about fueling your body.
[00:06:52] Dr. Taz: We're contemporaries. Yeah. So yes, I think I've told this story [00:06:55] before. It was Diet Coke and popcorn because it was low-calorie, right? Low-calorie. So that feels- Yeah ... healthy. [00:07:00] So, uh, okay, so that makes sense now. So you, you're living this [00:07:05] fast-paced life. You're in New York City. Yeah. Right? You know, running probably a mile a minute.[00:07:10]
[00:07:10] Dr. Taz: You get this diagnosis, and you turn to Whole Foods?
[00:07:13] Kris Carr: Honestly, I go back [00:07:15] to, like, well, vegetables are good for you, they say.
[00:07:18] Dr. Taz: Okay. Gotcha. I,
[00:07:19] Kris Carr: I [00:07:20] could do that. You know, what can you control? Right. The first thing is, like, well, what I put in my body, [00:07:25] and then what I put on my body. And then you start to learn a little bit, you know?
[00:07:28] Kris Carr: And then you learn about the food system, [00:07:30] and you learn about the medical system. And then I, I remember saying to myself, "Why [00:07:35] don't more of us know about this?"
[00:07:36] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:07:37] Kris Carr: You know, we don't come into this planet with an owner's manual, and [00:07:40] oftentimes we have to put one together when we've hit an icy patch in our life.[00:07:45]
[00:07:45] Kris Carr: And, and so that was the beginning of my journey, and luckily, I loved becoming a [00:07:50] student of wellness, and it also allowed me to channel my fear [00:07:55] in a positive direction. Uh, and, and then I started feeling better, and I [00:08:00] started writing and teaching, and I made a film about my journey and, and then my [00:08:05] life really changed.
[00:08:06] Dr. Taz: It turned into a diff- in a different direction. You're such a big advocate now [00:08:10] for holistic health and really a supportive person for anyone going on a cancer journey, and [00:08:15] I think that's incredible. I wanna go back to, though, as you're trying to chart your own journey, 'cause [00:08:20] one of the things I hear about over and over again in practice is this sort of like, [00:08:25] "I don't know where to start.
[00:08:26] Dr. Taz: I don't know what to do. I don't know who to listen to." And we have more [00:08:30] information today than we had, you know, when you and I were coming along. Yeah. And I'm thinking [00:08:35] about you in the city. You know, we're sitting here in New York City filming at the moment. Like, in the city [00:08:40] trying to get answers, trying to put the pieces together as a non-medical person.
[00:08:44] Dr. Taz: You know, for anyone [00:08:45] watching and listening to us today, 'cause I think that in itself is relevant no matter what the year is and no [00:08:50] matter- Mm-hmm ... you know, no matter what timeframe we're in. You know, how did you start that [00:08:55] journey? Like, what did you do first? What did you do second?
[00:08:57] Kris Carr: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:58] Dr. Taz: You know, and what did you see in [00:09:00] your body as you started to put these pieces together?
[00:09:03] Kris Carr: Well, I feel blessed because [00:09:05] literally that day at Whole Foods Market, I picked up a few books, [00:09:10] and it was about healing naturally. Not that I, it was my intention to eschew [00:09:15] modern medicine. Right. Again, I didn't have treatment options. Um, it was [00:09:20] that portal into an anti-inflammatory diet. We were talking about- Right, right
[00:09:24] Kris Carr: inflammation also, [00:09:25] and I didn't know anything about that. And so that's where I started. And [00:09:30] originally I started, I was macrobiotic, and then I became a raw foodist and, you know, now I teach [00:09:35] a whole foods, plant-based diet, and it, you don't even have to be 100% [00:09:40] plant-based. Mm-hmm.
[00:09:44] Kris Carr: It's just the point is, can we eat more real foods, whole foods, fruits, vegetables, the [00:09:45] medicine, right? And so, um, it was through trial and error [00:09:50] about what feels good to me. Mm. And I did many different certification programs. I would do, I would [00:09:55] go as deep as I possibly could as if I wanted to become a teacher or practitioner [00:10:00] because I needed to feel the benefits.
[00:10:01] Kris Carr: For
[00:10:02] Dr. Taz: you.
[00:10:02] Kris Carr: Yeah. Yeah. For me.
[00:10:03] Dr. Taz: Totally relate.
[00:10:04] Kris Carr: Um, and [00:10:05] so really, I d- I, I went, I followed the inflammation trail. [00:10:10] Mm-hmm. And it took me to many wonderful places.
[00:10:13] Dr. Taz: That's incredible. So you start to [00:10:15] get better. Are you realizing you're getting better? Or is this more like you're going in to do, [00:10:20] like, lab work and testing and that type of thing?
[00:10:23] Kris Carr: So I start to feel better.
[00:10:24] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:10:24] Kris Carr: So
[00:10:24] Dr. Taz: I s- [00:10:25] What specifically? Yeah. What did you notice as you adopted this lifestyle?
[00:10:28] Kris Carr: First of all, my digestion [00:10:30] was working for the first time. I was actually having bowel movements regularly. Which you weren't before. No. [00:10:35] Wow. You know, and I had natural energy as opposed to energy [00:10:40] that would be created by substances.
[00:10:41] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:10:42] Kris Carr: Um, and I feel [00:10:45] as though, because I came up at a time in- S- s- specifically in the [00:10:50] dance world where it, we had to be so thin.
[00:10:53] Dr. Taz: Yes.
[00:10:53] Kris Carr: And I had, [00:10:55] um, I did business finally with a real difficult disordered [00:11:00] eating habit.
[00:11:01] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:11:01] Kris Carr: Um, because I really equated food [00:11:05] with like, you know, deprivation. You can't have that.
[00:11:07] Kris Carr: You have to be on a constant [00:11:10] diet. And so I, I had a lot of issues around food, and I think that [00:11:15] cancer allowed me to make peace with my plate, and to see food in a way of like [00:11:20] being thankful and grateful, and this is medicine, this is healing, and to change my relationship with my [00:11:25] body, to appreciate my body for the first time, and the trillions of things that it does for me [00:11:30] every day without me even thinking about it.
[00:11:32] Kris Carr: And sure, there's some areas that are struggling, but can I [00:11:35] send love and support to those areas instead of continuing to participate [00:11:40] in, in, in making those areas, uh, struggle?
[00:11:44] Dr. Taz: You know, it's [00:11:45] so interesting. Are you still in the dance world? No. Or did you stay in the dance world?
[00:11:48] Kris Carr: No. I should ask that question.
[00:11:48] Kris Carr: I, I actually, [00:11:50] I left my career, and I, I made my [00:11:55] film, and then I started writing books, and I, I left New York City. It- I, I took a really [00:12:00] radical turn, um, because I had been performing since I was a kid.
[00:12:04] Dr. Taz: [00:12:05] Mm.
[00:12:05] Kris Carr: And I had been everybody I- but me, right? You're doing all these [00:12:10] different roles- Right, right ... becoming all these different people, and I'm like, "Who is Chris?
[00:12:13] Kris Carr: 'Cause we need to figure that out right [00:12:15] now. She needs you."
[00:12:16] Dr. Taz: You know, I've met so many, you know, young women and [00:12:20] women in the dance world, in the acting world, models, or even when I look at my [00:12:25] own daughter, who's now 16- Mm ... and her peer group, this idea of [00:12:30] food equaling deprivation, starvation is still there.
[00:12:34] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:12:35]
[00:12:35] Dr. Taz: And it's really worrisome. And I don't know if you have any advice to maybe the [00:12:40] moms like me, or even to a young woman listening today, how do we first make [00:12:45] acceptance, you know, around, or make peace with food really? Because I [00:12:50] think that society still to this day continues to hold up an image, regardless of [00:12:55] what career you're, you know, you end up choosing, and then I know dance, acting, modeling- Mm
[00:12:58] Dr. Taz: is, like, turning that [00:13:00] up about 1,000%. You know, how do we start to teach our young [00:13:05] women to not go down that road, you know, of really [00:13:10] fighting food, fighting, you know, fighting their bodies, you know? Because when I hear [00:13:15] you talk, I'm hearing not... And this is a big mission of this show, is to bring the [00:13:20] science- Mm-hmm
[00:13:20] Dr. Taz: of a lot of what's happening with our human experience and our spirit together. Because [00:13:25] I think you can't separate the two. The two are very much- Mm-hmm ... intertwined together. But [00:13:30] we still need to make it practical and tactical and logical for folks, right? How do [00:13:35] you do that?
[00:13:36] Kris Carr: Well, I think everybody's individual, but as you were talking, [00:13:40] um, such a powerful and beautiful question, and hopefully I can offer some [00:13:45] perspective.
[00:13:45] Kris Carr: I think that especially as women, we're all so powerful.
[00:13:48] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:13:49] Kris Carr: I like that. And we [00:13:50] undervalue our power in such a big way, and we give our power away. And [00:13:55] oftentimes we don't even recognize our power until the shizzle hits the fan- Mm ... and we [00:14:00] have to dig deep. And but the truth is, is that power is there all along, [00:14:05] and the sooner we can start to honor it, nurture it, respect [00:14:10] it, grow it, deepen it, I think the more fruitful and [00:14:15] meaningful our life becomes.
[00:14:17] Kris Carr: And that doesn't come from [00:14:20] comparing yourself to others. It comes from befriending yourself and really having [00:14:25] your own back, and walking your own path. And also finding [00:14:30] mentors and women that you look up to- Who I like,
[00:14:33] Dr. Taz: yeah ...
[00:14:33] Kris Carr: that aren't [00:14:35] necessarily the ones on TikTok or the Kardashians or whatever, you know what I mean?
[00:14:39] Kris Carr: Right, right. I don't [00:14:40] wanna put anybody down, but anybody that you look up to who is an [00:14:45] individual, who is shining, uh, her own power and, and really [00:14:50] standing in her light in a way that isn't conforming to [00:14:55] advertising models or the way women should look or should be. You know when you're triggered. [00:15:00] You know, ultimately, like even when I go on Instagram and I'll see somebody awesome, and I'm like, [00:15:05] "You trigger me."
[00:15:05] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:15:06] Kris Carr: Why do you trigger me? Because you're... for whatever reason, I'm feeling less than. You don't feel [00:15:10] good.
[00:15:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:15:10] Kris Carr: I don't feel good, so you're not my mentor. You're great doing your thing, but the [00:15:15] people that I gravitate towards, I'm like, damn. I was watching this interview with Kate Winslet on [00:15:20] 60 Minutes. Yes.
[00:15:20] Dr. Taz: I love her. Mm.
[00:15:21] Kris Carr: She's so herself.
[00:15:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:15:23] Kris Carr: She's talking about body [00:15:25] image and how she, uh, you know, one of her acting teachers had said, "Oh, if you're gonna look like this, [00:15:30] darling, you're gonna have to settle- Yeah ... for the fat girl roles."
[00:15:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah, yeah. And- I remember her saying that, yeah, mm-hmm ...
[00:15:34] Kris Carr: right? And [00:15:35] so, so many of us would shrink when we heard that.
[00:15:37] Kris Carr: You know what she said? She said, [00:15:40] "I'll show you." It's a choice. So what's your I'll show you?
[00:15:44] Dr. Taz: [00:15:45] Right. '
[00:15:46] Kris Carr: Cause that's how you're gonna get through the gauntlet of, of, [00:15:50] of trying to navigate and survive as a woman.
[00:15:52] Dr. Taz: I love that. You know, I think two things [00:15:55] there that I just wanna make sure we dial into. First of all, if it doesn't feel good, [00:16:00] walk away.
[00:16:01] Dr. Taz: You know, I think so many people, and I don't care how old you are, you could be a teenager or [00:16:05] you could be somebody in your 60s, but if you're doing something or c- following someone [00:16:10] or seeing images that don't make you feel good, I think turn the corner. Yeah. Right? There's no [00:16:15] reason to continue to engage in that.
[00:16:16] Dr. Taz: And I love the second. I love the I'll show you, and I've used [00:16:20] that mantra many a time in my life. Me too. If you're gonna tell me no, let me show you , you know? [00:16:25] So- Yes ... I love that, and I actually, to this day, I am following that, you know, [00:16:30] to a T, so I love that. But, um, let's go back to your journey, and [00:16:35] you're e- embraced a plant-foods diet.
[00:16:37] Dr. Taz: You're feeling better. Your gut's working much [00:16:40] better. Tell us what happens next.
[00:16:42] Kris Carr: So I still get tracked, [00:16:45] and, you know, in the beginning it was every two months, three months, six months, [00:16:50] year. That was a huge graduation point for me of going in, and my tumors have [00:16:55] still been stable each time. Sometimes they get smaller, but for the most [00:17:00] part they're just stable.
[00:17:01] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:17:02] Kris Carr: And again, that can still change, [00:17:05] and 20-plus years later, now there are starting to be some potential treatment [00:17:10] options. I wouldn't do any of them right now because I feel great [00:17:15] and I'm still stable, but if things were to become aggressive-
[00:17:18] Dr. Taz: You might consider it ...
[00:17:19] Kris Carr: I would [00:17:20] absolutely consider it. Right.
[00:17:20] Kris Carr: You know? Um, and now I go in every five years, which [00:17:25] is-
[00:17:25] Dr. Taz: Amazing ...
[00:17:26] Kris Carr: amazing. And I- I
[00:17:27] Dr. Taz: love that ...
[00:17:28] Kris Carr: I feel like that's, that's [00:17:30] enough.
[00:17:30] Dr. Taz: You know? What are doctors, what do they say when they hear your story [00:17:35] and track your journey? You know, what's the medical community, how have they weighed in? You can be [00:17:40] honest. Yeah.
[00:17:40] Dr. Taz: I know, I know I'm a physician, but you can be completely honest. Yeah. Uh-
[00:17:43] Kris Carr: You know? Yes, absolutely. You [00:17:45] know, I'm in a rare group of people with my disease. Um, there aren't many of us at this [00:17:50] mark, this, uh, you know, m- that have had it as long as I have. And so [00:17:55] I think what's happening now is this, this desire to study us-
[00:17:59] Dr. Taz: Mm
[00:17:59] Kris Carr: to see [00:18:00] if there's anything that's happening in our bodies that could help other patients like [00:18:05] me. Um, so hopefully there'll be more studies like that, maybe one that [00:18:10] I can join-
[00:18:10] Dr. Taz: Definitely, yeah ...
[00:18:11] Kris Carr: and, and be a part of.
[00:18:13] Dr. Taz: You know, it's interesting 'cause when I [00:18:15] hear you tell your story, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm hearing an intuitive [00:18:20] journey.
[00:18:20] Dr. Taz: I'm hearing, "I'm gonna do the things that are healthy. I have a few [00:18:25] resources. I'm gonna follow those resources, and I'm gonna listen to my body, and I'm gonna honor my [00:18:30] body." At any point, and I, and the answer might be no, because I know medicine has [00:18:35] evolved in the years since, but at, at any point, was there sort of a strategic plan that [00:18:40] maybe either you created or a medical partner created where, "Hey, [00:18:45] let's look at inflammation consistently.
[00:18:47] Dr. Taz: Let's look at these key nutrient values in your [00:18:50] cancer journey. You know, let's see what your hormones are doing. You know, what are the variables that may be [00:18:55] feeding this or may be helping to reduce it?" And kinda measuring that. Yes. Was [00:19:00] there any of that available to you?
[00:19:01] Kris Carr: A little bit. Um, most of that was not [00:19:05] available at the time- Right
[00:19:06] Kris Carr: and it was something that I would have to sorta track on a piece of paper, you know what I mean? Wow. [00:19:10]
[00:19:10] Dr. Taz: Wow.
[00:19:10] Kris Carr: Wow. I get my sketch pad out. Yes, exactly. [00:19:15] Let me just see my blood work. Yeah. Um, but then I started to work with an [00:19:20] integrative oncologist- Okay ... um, Keith Block- Yes ... in Chicago.
[00:19:23] Dr. Taz: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:19:23] Kris Carr: And he [00:19:25] was, he was a turning point for me because I hadn't worked with an in- I hadn't found an integrative [00:19:30] doctor who could also, like, really understand, um, my particular [00:19:35] situation.
[00:19:36] Kris Carr: And so that was very, very helpful. And then my, [00:19:40] he's very aligned with my nutrition protocol- Right ... and what I have been following and practicing, [00:19:45] and he's very much for it. Um, but then taking my supplementation up to the next level. [00:19:50]
[00:19:50] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:19:50] Kris Carr: And, and then also, a big part of the journey for me was it's... I, I [00:19:55] often say that in the beginning I was focused on what I'm eating.
[00:19:57] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:19:57] Kris Carr: And then around the 10-year mark, I [00:20:00] started to focus on what was eating me.
[00:20:01] Dr. Taz: Oh.
[00:20:02] Kris Carr: Right? Because- Okay, I love this. Yeah.
[00:20:04] Dr. Taz: We'll go
[00:20:04] Kris Carr: there.
[00:20:04] Dr. Taz: [00:20:05] Yeah, yeah. We gotta go there.
[00:20:06] Kris Carr: We know that inflammation- Right ... of course, it's what we're eating, what we're drinking, what we're [00:20:10] thinking, how we're resting, how we're renewing.
[00:20:11] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:20:12] Kris Carr: And that thinking piece is such a big part, 'cause stress is, [00:20:15] you know, the, the foundation of so much of the situations that we don't wanna find ourselves in. [00:20:20] Um, so Keith was very helpful, and a few other practitioners along the way. Um, [00:20:25] but for the longest poi- point in my journey, it was a, it was a total black box.
[00:20:29] Kris Carr: Mm. [00:20:30] And it's interesting, because it wasn't until about two years ago, where I had some [00:20:35] hormonal issues, that I started to go down the road of finding you. [00:20:40] And I... It was literally like I was back at the beginning of my journey- [00:20:45] The first day I walked into Whole Foods, and you can realize, wow, I have taught myself [00:20:50] so much, but I completely ignored one part of [00:20:55] my education because it wasn't cancer related.
[00:20:57] Kris Carr: Right. And so I was like, "Uh, I guess [00:21:00] everything's fine." But I had all of these new symptoms and these new issues that had nothing [00:21:05] to do with cancer, but were really debilitating, like even more so than cancer-
[00:21:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah ...
[00:21:09] Kris Carr: [00:21:10] for me.
[00:21:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:21:10] Kris Carr: And so I'm on that journey now. I'm like a fresh student
[00:21:14] Dr. Taz: In the [00:21:15] hormone world.
[00:21:15] Kris Carr: In the hormone world, and it's fascinating and exciting and, [00:21:20] and I'm so grateful for you and- Oh, thank you ... I really am. And my girlfriends and I were talking [00:21:25] about it this weekend, and it's also so frustrating-
[00:21:27] Dr. Taz: Yeah ...
[00:21:28] Kris Carr: to be 53 years old [00:21:30] and, and to feel like how, how, why is this so new and it's so, you [00:21:35] know, none of us know this.
[00:21:35] Kris Carr: Well, you
[00:21:35] Dr. Taz: feel for our mothers and our grandmothers who just sort of went- Yes ... hands up in the air, [00:21:40] this is getting old, you know? And, and- Yes ... felt like, and I even think of my own mom at my [00:21:45] age, and she was having a lot, I love you, Mom, but she was having a lot of mental [00:21:50] health issues. And now that I have sort of the wisdom and the maturity to look back, it was [00:21:55] hormonally driven.
[00:21:56] Dr. Taz: She was probably going through menopause at the time. Right. You know, having [00:22:00] an, our entire family has an issue with androgens. Androgens make you crazy. They They [00:22:05] literally make you crazy. They drive anger and rage and, you know, there are even some [00:22:10] studies that say they trigger bipolar disorder and OCD- Wow
[00:22:13] Dr. Taz: and all this other stuff. So as [00:22:15] women, it just continues to baffle me. I mean, I guess I've sat in a seat where my entire [00:22:20] journey into this space is because of hormones. Yeah. So maybe I have a little bit more of a front row seat to all of [00:22:25] this. But when you do this over and over again, day in and day out, you're just like, how can we [00:22:30] not talk about hormones in women's health- Yeah
[00:22:33] Dr. Taz: when it relates to [00:22:35] every single thing, your gut health, your, you know, mental health, your energy, your sleep, your [00:22:40] relationships, and so much more. So I do think it's a big, you know, big blank space- Mm-hmm ... that is [00:22:45] slowly getting filled now, but we still have a lot of work to do- Mm-hmm ... you know, in that. But [00:22:50] thinking about you again as you're working with Dr.
[00:22:52] Dr. Taz: Block, whose work I've looked at too, and I, I know he [00:22:55] does incredible things in the cancer space, you know, and you're starting to understand a little bit more about the [00:23:00] physiology of your body and the chemistry of your body. Mm-hmm. You talked about taking supplementation up [00:23:05] a degree. What were the things you found, out of curiosity?[00:23:10]
[00:23:11] Kris Carr: I'd say that there's, I've found a few things. First and foremost- 'Cause
[00:23:13] Dr. Taz: you're living a plant-based- [00:23:15]
[00:23:15] Kris Carr: Yes ...
[00:23:15] Dr. Taz: life at this point, right? Yes. So just
[00:23:17] Kris Carr: curious. For me, it was, you know, all the basics are very [00:23:20] important, your vitamin D, vitamin B, all of the things that are the baseline stuff, right? [00:23:25] Um, making sure that the vast majority of my nutrients are coming from food.
[00:23:29] Kris Carr: Right. [00:23:30] And that that is my, my foundation, and I think that supplementation fills in the [00:23:35] gaps. It complements a healthy diet. It complements a healthy [00:23:40] lifestyle. But then working with Keith, I started to work with mushrooms and all of these other things that [00:23:45] could support my immune system- Mm ... and my T-cells and, and things like that.
[00:23:48] Kris Carr: Um, I [00:23:50] also think for the vast majority of normal, everyday, regular people- [00:23:55] It can ge- get very overwhelming.
[00:23:58] Dr. Taz: Very much
[00:23:58] Kris Carr: And we [00:24:00] start to throw up our hands because all of a sudden we've got so many supplements- Right ... to take, and you don't [00:24:05] necessarily key into feeling better, right? It's happening on the inside, and you're just [00:24:10] hoping something's working.
[00:24:10] Dr. Taz: You don't see the payoff. I hear that from- Yeah ... patients all the time. Yeah. They're like, "This is just too much," like, "I don't [00:24:15] know what it's doing."
[00:24:15] Kris Carr: Yeah. So I, what I try to do is keep it very simple. And, [00:24:20] um, and I think for anybody out there listening, you know, you can obviously work with a [00:24:25] wonderful doctor.
[00:24:25] Kris Carr: I think it's better to work with a doctor if you can because then we're, you're [00:24:30] being guided by your blood work. Um, and that'll tell you a lot about what it is that you [00:24:35] need and what would be helpful- Very much ... to support. I mean, you know, this is your wheelhouse. Yes, this is
[00:24:38] Dr. Taz: my wheelhouse. [00:24:40] Yeah.
[00:24:40] Kris Carr: Um, and then also being th- being brave enough to say like, "Hey, I know [00:24:45] me.
[00:24:45] Kris Carr: I'm the type of person that if it's more than- Right ... five things, I'm probably not gonna take it. [00:24:50] I'm gonna waste a whole bunch of money." Like, start slow. Build a practice just like [00:24:55] anything else, that it starts to work into your life so that you can actually commit to it and [00:25:00] see the change in your blood work in three months, six months, and so forth.
[00:25:04] Kris Carr: Um, [00:25:05] because I, I, again, like I took the full-on sell your apartment, go on a [00:25:10] journey, like throw yourself in, because I was so scared. But most people do [00:25:15] better with like that slow and steady- Right ... stacking new habits approach so that they don't [00:25:20] burn out.
[00:25:20] Dr. Taz: Very much. It's been such a blessing working with so many different types of people, [00:25:25] and I think it goes back to what you started with, that you really have to know [00:25:30] yourself-
[00:25:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah
[00:25:30] Dr. Taz: and you really have to trust yourself. Because I think some of us are like, "I'm gonna do it [00:25:35] all, bring it all in, and, you know, you tell me what to do. I'm gonna commit to it, and you'll [00:25:40] walk through every step." But the majority of us, you know, that's a lot. And so I think you [00:25:45] have to have a lot of self-acceptance.
[00:25:47] Dr. Taz: And then I always talk to patients about [00:25:50] employing sort of what I learned from the ER, where we're triaging. Mm-hmm. What is of highest [00:25:55] priority at this given moment? And what, what's your capacity? What are you able to do? [00:26:00] If you're feeling exhausted and fatigued, we need to do level one and level two. We don't need to worry [00:26:05] about all this other minutiae right now.
[00:26:06] Dr. Taz: We can get to it later, you know? And really kinda working [00:26:10] through a plan and building a plan- Yeah ... that way, I think, is the way. And I, and I continue to this day to [00:26:15] have the patients that come in with like big bags of supplements- ... and dump them all out on the counter and be like, "This [00:26:20] is what I'm taking."
[00:26:20] Dr. Taz: And there is such a thing as too much.
[00:26:22] Kris Carr: Yeah.
[00:26:23] Dr. Taz: There's definitely such a thing as too much, you know? [00:26:25] So
[00:26:25] Kris Carr: glad you said that. And I so appreciate your approach because I, I think that it just opens the door f- to [00:26:30] more of us to
[00:26:31] Dr. Taz: say- Definitely ... "
[00:26:31] Kris Carr: I can do this."
[00:26:32] Dr. Taz: You can do it, and it's a part of my passion, [00:26:35] honestly.
[00:26:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. I feel like you can do one thing. Everyone can do one thing, and that one [00:26:40] thing has a reverberating effect on the human body- Yeah ... and the human spirit both. Mm-hmm. You [00:26:45] know? And I think that's the thing that makes me just be like, "Please listen. Please do [00:26:50] something." But you said something else that we can't walk away from.
[00:26:54] Dr. Taz: You said you [00:26:55] learned what was eating you more than just what you were eating. [00:27:00] What was happening there in that space? Because again, Chinese [00:27:05] medicine talks about this, Ayurvedic medicine talks about this. Mm-hmm. So many older, you know- Yeah ... [00:27:10] shamanic systems of medicine talk about this. When you are carrying burdens in the [00:27:15] spirit, in the soul- Mm-hmm
[00:27:16] Dr. Taz: it will show up in the physical body. Maybe not [00:27:20] today, maybe not tomorrow. Yeah. But at some point it shows up. My personal clinical [00:27:25] experience, it shows up as inflammation historically. Mm. It shows up as high cortisol. [00:27:30] It shows up as mental health issues. There are many different ways that it shows up. [00:27:35] One of the biggest things that I have a problem with is that the way we've structured medicine today is that we don't [00:27:40] leave time and space- Mm
[00:27:41] Dr. Taz: to get into that, and we're not really healing people [00:27:45] when we get, when we don't go there. So I want you to go there, if you're comfortable- Yeah ... [00:27:50] and let people know what that was. Mm-hmm. And then what did it [00:27:55] do in this journey that we call cancer?
[00:27:57] Kris Carr: Mm-hmm. journey that we call [00:28:00] cancer, wellness- All of it
[00:28:02] Kris Carr: prevention, uh, autoimmune, [00:28:05] whatever it is. Um, so 10 years in, I'm practicing a whole [00:28:10] foods plant-based diet. I'm already a New York Times bestseller. Like, things are happening, right? [00:28:15] And people are starting to follow my work, and a lot of people are starting to feel better. [00:28:20] And I feel better, but I still have cancer.
[00:28:22] Kris Carr: And so at the 10-year mark, which is my [00:28:25] original expiration date- Right ... everybody was very happy but me. [00:28:30]
[00:28:30] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:28:31] Kris Carr: And so my dad was there, my mom was there, my, my family was [00:28:35] in the room when I got the good news that everything was still looking good. And there [00:28:40] was this moment where I just said, "Wow, I'm [00:28:45] really so hellbent on curing myself."
[00:28:48] Kris Carr: Hmm. "That if I don't cure myself, life isn't [00:28:50] good enough. Like, I haven't... I need to put a neat bow on this. It has to be behind me." It's like an expectation
[00:28:54] Dr. Taz: [00:28:55] thing. Yeah. Like a grade almost. Mm-hmm. Like a report card. Mm-hmm.
[00:28:57] Kris Carr: And here are also people who are practicing [00:29:00] what I'm teaching and curing themselves, right?
[00:29:03] Kris Carr: Hmm. Mm-hmm. And so I think [00:29:05] I felt like a big failure. That's not something that I was sharing or I was even [00:29:10] really, um, recognizing in myself, but we, my husband and I, were driving back from [00:29:15] Dana-Farber is where- Mm-hmm ... my cancer is in, uh, hospital is in Boston, and I said, "I quit." [00:29:20] He said, "What? What are you quitting?"
[00:29:21] Kris Carr: I said, "I'm quitting doing all this for cancer."
[00:29:24] Dr. Taz: Hmm. "[00:29:25]
[00:29:25] Kris Carr: I have to do this for me. I have to take care of myself and live a healthy [00:29:30] life for me, not because I'm trying to get an A on the [00:29:35] report card- Right ... and, and be in remission, as if, if only if I'm in remission, then I [00:29:40] can live." Right. And so what I realized in that journey [00:29:45] was I had a lot of mental and emotional work to do-
[00:29:48] Dr. Taz: Hmm
[00:29:49] Kris Carr: around [00:29:50] fear, anxiety, acceptance, worthiness.
[00:29:54] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:29:54] Kris Carr: [00:29:55] And a lot of my old trauma, so I'm adopted. I was raised by my mother and [00:30:00] my grandmother, but I didn't know my biological father until I was a teenager, and [00:30:05] we were in each other's lives for a period of time and then he cut me out of his life again, um- Hmm
[00:30:09] Kris Carr: [00:30:10] after my first book came out. And what I realized was is that this [00:30:15] old trauma was coming up, and it was around abandonment- Yeah ... and rejection and not being good [00:30:20] enough, and I was somehow tying it into cancer. Right? And I was [00:30:25] rejecting, and abandoning, and feeling not good enough because I wasn't cured.
[00:30:28] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:30:29] Kris Carr: And then [00:30:30] I realized there's a difference between curing and healing, and that curing is a [00:30:35] physical experience, and it may or may not happen. Great if it does. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean life is over. But [00:30:40] healing is a spiritual- Right ... experience, and it's available to every single one of us [00:30:45] to the moment of our death and beyond.
[00:30:46] Kris Carr: And, and that was the turning point for me, and that's when I [00:30:50] started to practice, let's call it stress management, you know, and really go [00:30:55] back into therapy and start to take care of my mind, not just my body. [00:31:00] Um, and start to weave that into my teaching-
[00:31:03] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:31:03] Kris Carr: so that as I s- [00:31:05] continued to write books and whatnot, that I was emphasizing the mind as much [00:31:10] as the diet.
[00:31:10] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:31:11] Kris Carr: You know, um, how you're feeling about yourself, your stress levels, [00:31:15] as much as are you moving, are you sleeping, you know? And, and, and so that was, that was the [00:31:20] turning point. It was in that car. It was after that scan, and, and I, I said, "This, [00:31:25] this is ridiculous. This is awful."
[00:31:27] Dr. Taz: I've told this story before, you know, [00:31:30] so bear with me as I tell it again, but I have sat with so many men and women, [00:31:35] and, you know, especially with women, when they're going through a great [00:31:40] trauma, or a great loss, or a divorce, or these type of things, um, [00:31:45] unfortunately, sometimes I can clock it.
[00:31:47] Kris Carr: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:31:49] Dr. Taz: I can clock it, [00:31:50] and I can say, "If we don't start to explore [00:31:55] some of these emotions and these feelings, in 18 [00:32:00] months we're gonna be dealing with something." I don't like to use the C word. Wow. But [00:32:05] over and over again, it's typically breast cancer.
[00:32:07] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:32:07] Dr. Taz: And there are many different reasons for that which [00:32:10] have to...
[00:32:10] Dr. Taz: You know, I think Chinese medicine probably explains it the best. You know, the anger [00:32:15] and grief sit in the liver and the lung, and that runs right through the breast, you know? And, [00:32:20] you know, there's that emotional vibration to all of these different things. I think [00:32:25] processing these feelings of rejection and [00:32:30] abandonment, you know, loss and grief- It's easy to go through life [00:32:35] without ever acknowledging them.
[00:32:36] Dr. Taz: It's either e- very easy to put the armor on- Yeah ... and walk [00:32:40] your way through, but they are impacting you in so many different ways, whether it's a decision you make about [00:32:45] a career or a partner or- Mm-hmm ... you know, or what you're gonna eat that day, to [00:32:50] actually, you know, expression of disease. How, how do people work [00:32:55] through this?
[00:32:55] Dr. Taz: I feel like this is a place, to be 100%- Mm-hmm ... honest and vulnerable here. This is a place [00:33:00] I still to this day struggle just a little bit in the exam room, you know? Mm. 'Cause I want [00:33:05] to lead people there.
[00:33:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:06] Dr. Taz: But I feel like it's so hard, or I don't have the right [00:33:10] words or the right tools, or there's something that I'm not saying to get you from here to [00:33:15] here.
[00:33:15] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:15] Dr. Taz: So I would love for you to share, 'cause I know you have a big, and you need to [00:33:20] share your, more about your community and the work you're doing and, you know, how you've touched so many other people, [00:33:25] you know, as we tell your story. But how did you get there and work [00:33:30] through all those things, and how are you helping the many people that are coming into your community- Mm-hmm
[00:33:34] Dr. Taz: do [00:33:35] that exact same thing?
[00:33:37] Kris Carr: Well, that was the first p- moment [00:33:40] probably. Um, and then about, I guess, four [00:33:45] years ago, my, my dad passed, and, and he was my chosen father, and we [00:33:50] were very, very close. Mm-hmm. And so my most recent book is called I'm Not a Mourning Person, [00:33:55] mourning with a U.
[00:33:55] Dr. Taz: Mm, mm-hmm.
[00:33:56] Kris Carr: And it's about braving loss, grief, and the [00:34:00] big messy emotions that happen when- Wow
[00:34:01] Dr. Taz: life falls apart. Yeah.
[00:34:03] Kris Carr: And we've all been touched by [00:34:05] trauma in some way, trauma with a small T, Trauma with a big T. [00:34:10] Um, as Gabor Mate says, "It's not what happens to you, it's what happens inside of [00:34:15] you in that moment." And to your beautiful point that when we [00:34:20] don't address the, the parts that are still hurting, [00:34:25] um, it comes out in some other way.
[00:34:28] Kris Carr: It's like physics.
[00:34:29] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:34:30] You know?
[00:34:30] Kris Carr: Right. Very
[00:34:31] Dr. Taz: much, yeah.
[00:34:31] Kris Carr: And maybe it won't come out in a disease, but it'll come out in [00:34:35] un- uh, unfulfilling relationships.
[00:34:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:38] Kris Carr: Or a [00:34:40] career that is never y- you know, your dream or your passion or whatnot because you are [00:34:45] willfully holding yourself back because you're still stuck in the stories.
[00:34:49] Kris Carr: Right. [00:34:50] And so you're not gonna go for the thing that would make you so happy and, and whatnot. And so- [00:34:55] I think it starts by saying it's okay to not be okay. There's a [00:35:00] great book, a grief book with that title, and I think so few of us [00:35:05] are emotionally literate.
[00:35:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:07] Kris Carr: Right? And what I thought [00:35:10] really when my dad died was I, I didn't realize how I [00:35:15] was allergic to grief.
[00:35:16] Dr. Taz: Allergic to grief?
[00:35:17] Kris Carr: Yeah. I was so afraid of [00:35:20] feeling my grief- Ah ... 'cause I thought that if I felt it, it would take me under like [00:35:25] a tsunami. Mm. It would just suck me out to sea, and the Chris that we know and some of us love [00:35:30] would just be like no more. Yeah. And, um, I- [00:35:35] And, and that m- that feeling in and of itself is such a, does such a [00:35:40] disservice to our emotions because we live, as you so beautifully said [00:35:45] earlier, like how do we navigate this time, es- es- especially for young women, social media and whatnot.
[00:35:49] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:35:50]
[00:35:50] Kris Carr: And we live in a time where we are in a grief-phobic, [00:35:55] messy emotions averse society. So few of us know how to have these conversations. [00:36:00] And we h- we look at certain emotions and say, "These are worthy," [00:36:05] and other emotions we may say, as my grandmother used to say to me, "That's unbecoming."
[00:36:08] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:36:09] Kris Carr: [00:36:10] Sadness, anger, rage- Yep
[00:36:11] Kris Carr: for women- Yes ... crying, unbecoming. Won't find a [00:36:15] husband. Don't do that. Right. Shove it down. Pack it up. Put it on. Right. Keep on [00:36:20] trucking. Right. You know what I
[00:36:20] Dr. Taz: mean? Totally, yes.
[00:36:23] Kris Carr: So can we start to [00:36:25] invite these other parts of ourselves, um, to come to the table and share what [00:36:30] it is that is going on? And one of the things I talk about in the book is we can't [00:36:35] amputate any of our emotions and expect to be whole.
[00:36:37] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:36:38] Kris Carr: And wholeness to me is the [00:36:40] goal in this life. Ah, she
[00:36:41] Dr. Taz: answered the question already. Right. What makes you whole. Yeah. I love it.
[00:36:44] Kris Carr: It's [00:36:45] like being able to say there's parts of me that are deeply grieving. There's parts of me, [00:36:50] like sometimes I can't handle my rage and, and it'll, it'll make me really feel [00:36:55] so much shame, but I can then get curious about that shame- Mm
[00:36:57] Kris Carr: and curious about that rage. [00:37:00] And it's, it's almost the same thing as when, when we start our health and, our, our health and wellness journey. [00:37:05] Curiosity is the number one tool 'cause you're like, "Well, what [00:37:10] does this person say? And what would that be like?" And we need to get curious about our [00:37:15] emotions, and to actually start to learn more about them, you know.
[00:37:18] Kris Carr: Um- [00:37:20] Brene Brown has that great book. Oh, yes.
[00:37:21] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:37:21] Kris Carr: Atlas Heart. Yes. Amazing book. And she [00:37:25] teaches you every single emotion, and what it means, and what it is. And when I think about that, [00:37:30] if I know how to care for my... If I understand a little bit about my liver, not as much as you know, but [00:37:35] like layman's terms about my liver, then I can say, "Oh, well, that's what my liver [00:37:40] does, and that's what it likes.
[00:37:41] Kris Carr: Well, now I know a little bit about how to care for my liver, which has tumors [00:37:45] in it, which needs my care. Oh, can I apply that same way of [00:37:50] being to anger-
[00:37:51] Dr. Taz: Mm ...
[00:37:51] Kris Carr: to sadness, to jealousy?" Oh, [00:37:55] well it's a s- They're all signaling emotions, bringing us someplace that honestly [00:38:00] leads to more personal growl- growth, and, and a deeper connection with self, [00:38:05] and a, and a deeper healing.
[00:38:07] Kris Carr: So- Not to vilify them, but the, but [00:38:10] just go on this path of, "I'm gonna get to know you this year." So do you release these emotions, or do [00:38:15] you just
[00:38:15] Dr. Taz: kinda put them in their place, almost like a book on a bookshelf?
[00:38:19] Kris Carr: No. [00:38:20] I mean, honestly, you spend time with them. You know, I, I think that emotions are also [00:38:25] energy, and energy needs to- They are
[00:38:26] Kris Carr: move.
[00:38:27] Dr. Taz: Very much, yeah.
[00:38:27] Kris Carr: It needs to be expressed. [00:38:30] Um, and that can happen through journaling. It can happen through movement. It can [00:38:35] happen through, you know, a deep conversation like this- Right ... that's very soulful and nourishing.
[00:38:39] Dr. Taz: [00:38:40] Yeah.
[00:38:40] Kris Carr: It can also happen with a therapist, and, and for many of us, that's a very good choice, or a [00:38:45] counselor, a place where you feel safe to actually start to explore what you're [00:38:50] feeling, um, and not feel like there's any part of you that's bad or wrong or [00:38:55] broken because you're feeling them.
[00:38:57] Dr. Taz: I love that. So as you start to [00:39:00] sit with your emotions- Mm-hmm ... and many of these feelings, which are common, by the way- Yeah ... of rejection [00:39:05] and abandonment and unworthiness, and they come in, you know, from so [00:39:10] many different places, you know, what's happening with your physical body through this journey? [00:39:15]
[00:39:15] Kris Carr: Oh, gosh.
[00:39:16] Kris Carr: Well, I, I honestly think- [00:39:20] It, it all works together.
[00:39:21] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:39:21] Kris Carr: Right? Mm-hmm. And you know this more than anybody. [00:39:25] Um, I can say that I sense a deeper connection with [00:39:30] myself.
[00:39:30] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:30] Kris Carr: More peace, more ease, more ability to weather [00:39:35] adversity. Even going into this menopausal journey, I'm deep in perimenopause and starting [00:39:40] into like, it didn't happen last month, now it's back this [00:39:45] month.
[00:39:45] Kris Carr: Like, what the hell's going on? You know what I mean? Right. Of like being able to navigate this chapter with so much more ease [00:39:50] and grace and calm and a sense of agency, um, because of the work that I've done. Not [00:39:55] just because of my experience- Right ... navigating stage four cancer, but because of the [00:40:00] personal development and personal growth work and, that I have done.
[00:40:03] Kris Carr: It's like, "Okay, you [00:40:05] got this. We're, we're-
[00:40:06] Dr. Taz: You're gonna be fine ...
[00:40:06] Kris Carr: I'm gonna figure this out."
[00:40:07] Dr. Taz: No matter what, you'll be fine.
[00:40:08] Kris Carr: One step at a time here. [00:40:10] Um, there's no overwhelming, there's no flooding, there's no shutting down. And I [00:40:15] could, because there, there were some medical scares where I remember, you know, one, [00:40:20] um, one of my doctors said, "This might be endometrial cancer."
[00:40:23] Kris Carr: I'm like, "It's not."
[00:40:24] Dr. Taz: Mm. "[00:40:25]
[00:40:25] Kris Carr: But let's get all the tests."
[00:40:26] Dr. Taz: I love that feeling. I think I've got it now, [00:40:30] too. It's just like you hear stuff, but there's this inner wisdom and this [00:40:35] inner knowing of like, "Mm-mm."
[00:40:36] Kris Carr: No.
[00:40:37] Dr. Taz: It's not. "You're wrong. I'm sorry." And I'm not trying to be full of myself. [00:40:40] "I just know you're wrong." You know?
[00:40:41] Dr. Taz: S- But that comes with this work. It comes with this, [00:40:45] like, clarity, you know? Yeah. Just ultimate clarity of knowing [00:40:50] which way to turn and which way to go. Mm-hmm. And I love that, you know? You've built this [00:40:55] community. Talk to us about the community that you've built and the resources that you offer, [00:41:00] and I also want your perspective, you know, 'cause I'm, I'm curious as to who's coming into the [00:41:05] community.
[00:41:05] Dr. Taz: But one of the things that I personally am very concerned about is how [00:41:10] we, like you in 2003, we're just seeing an escalating rate of [00:41:15] cancer diagnoses in younger and younger men and women. And, you know, we just had [00:41:20] Kate Middleton go through her journey- Yep ... and she's, I think, right at 40. We've had so many big figures, you [00:41:25] know, big public figures go through this in a, in a very, you know, spotlight way, but there's so [00:41:30] many people day to day dealing with this, and I get surprised by it too through [00:41:35] my community that all these young women, 20s, 30s, young men- Mm-hmm
[00:41:38] Dr. Taz: 20s, 30s, [00:41:40] developing cancer. You know, are you seeing that in your community? And what sort of guidance or [00:41:45] advice do you have for them?
[00:41:46] Kris Carr: So we definitely have a population of people in my community that [00:41:50] have cancer, who have other illnesses, autoimmune, or, or [00:41:55] also there's many people in my community that are just interested in feeling better.
[00:41:58] Kris Carr: Right. And you know, one of my mottos [00:42:00] is prevention is the best cure, you know? And so what I teach is very [00:42:05] practical and very, um, accessible. And I basically try to do [00:42:10] my best to translate the basics of lifestyle medicine [00:42:15] into the f- what I call the five pillars of wellness. And it's about being mindful about what you're [00:42:20] eating.
[00:42:20] Kris Carr: Are you eating enough plants? What you're drinking. Are you drinking enough water? Mm. Are you [00:42:25] hydrated? What you're thinking. How's that stress management going? And here are some practical tools to [00:42:30] help you soothe, and calm, and reset your nervous system. Um, what you're eating, drinking, what you're [00:42:35] thinking, how you're resting.
[00:42:36] Kris Carr: Let's deal with some of the sleep issues, 'cause so many of us aren't sleeping. Yep. And [00:42:40] how you're renewing. So moving your body in a way that is creating more [00:42:45] energy, more vitality, but isn't so, you know, [00:42:50] restrictive or oppressive that you just don't do it.
[00:42:52] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:42:52] Kris Carr: Especially coming from my world as [00:42:55] being a ex-professional dancer, there's a lot I had [00:43:00] around, um, fitness-
[00:43:01] Dr. Taz: Right
[00:43:01] Kris Carr: that was joyful, but also filled with baggage.
[00:43:04] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:43:05]
[00:43:05] Kris Carr: So that's what I teach, and the pillars rest on a foundation of [00:43:10] stress reduction, AKA reducing inflammation.
[00:43:13] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:43:13] Kris Carr: And so [00:43:15] I'm teaching these basics year in, year out to my community. Takes [00:43:20] a bunch of my different books and just sort of puts it into o- one place where people [00:43:25] can practice these things in a way that work with their lives.
[00:43:28] Kris Carr: Um, and there's, [00:43:30] there's nothing that's trendy. There's, there's no latest breakthroughs or [00:43:35] fads or what-
[00:43:35] Dr. Taz: This is the supplement to take right
[00:43:36] Kris Carr: now. Yeah, no. None of that. That's better, yeah. It's really, it's like, okay- Right ... we go really [00:43:40] back to the basics. Right. Because I, I, this is what I know to be true. If you're not doing the basics, [00:43:45] the latest superfood isn't gonna do anything for you.
[00:43:49] Kris Carr: You know?
[00:43:49] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:43:49] Kris Carr: [00:43:50] And so y- you just cont- continue to build this wonderful practice and enhance it, and, and it grows [00:43:55] and it changes. And last I shared, my practice is changing now. Um, but we always have to get [00:44:00] the foundation down before we can start to do all this other stuff.
[00:44:02] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Are you [00:44:05] concerned with what you're seeing out there with, you know, are younger folks [00:44:10] getting some of these diagnoses faster or dealing with things a little bit [00:44:15] earlier?
[00:44:15] Dr. Taz: What do, what do you think is happening?
[00:44:16] Kris Carr: I mean, I... That would be a question for you, [00:44:20] what's happening. I can tell you that from my perspective, um, you and I also [00:44:25] talked a little bit, like, we assume that so many of us are educated about how to take care of [00:44:30] ourselves. Right. But it's not true.
[00:44:31] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:44:31] Kris Carr: And I think that- Our world is [00:44:35] harder and harder.
[00:44:35] Kris Carr: It's more and more stressful. It's more and more, um, fractured. The [00:44:40] information that we get is sort of harder and harder to parse through and s- and understand [00:44:45] what's real and what's an influencer and-
[00:44:46] Dr. Taz: Right ...
[00:44:47] Kris Carr: you know, and what do I do? And, and we have so [00:44:50] many economic disparities and, and a lack of access to- Right
[00:44:53] Kris Carr: really [00:44:55] foundational, um, care needs that, of course, it's gonna, it's gonna happen more and [00:45:00] more. And when you see younger and younger people who are dealing with so much, you know, increased rates of [00:45:05] depression, anxiety-
[00:45:06] Dr. Taz: Yeah ...
[00:45:06] Kris Carr: suicide, and a lot of that stems back to social [00:45:10] media and all of that, um, I think we've lost our way when it comes to s- sort of the [00:45:15] basics and the getting back to nature, and back to the foundation, and back to the garden.
[00:45:19] Kris Carr: Um, [00:45:20] and I think that's another reason why I like to make it as simple as possible.
[00:45:23] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:45:23] Kris Carr: People say, "I can't afford organic food. [00:45:25] I don't-" Right.
[00:45:25] Dr. Taz: I
[00:45:25] Kris Carr: was about to ask you that
[00:45:26] Dr. Taz: question. Yeah, tell me. Yeah.
[00:45:26] Kris Carr: Fine. Just g- what, what can you do? What can you [00:45:30] do? Yeah. As opposed to making it has to be pristine, it has to be, you know, certified XYZ [00:45:35] PDQ.
[00:45:36] Kris Carr: It's like, okay, that's great if you can do it, but [00:45:40] you can also get blueberries, and you can also get a bag of, um, whole grain rice, and you can also get some [00:45:45] beans. And, and we can find these practical ways to make it work in your budget, but that you're eating [00:45:50] real food.
[00:45:51] Dr. Taz: You know, so many people do say that holistic health is hard, holistic health is [00:45:55] expensive.
[00:45:56] Dr. Taz: You know, holistic health is for the privileged. What do you say to [00:46:00] that?
[00:46:01] Kris Carr: Y- in some ways it can be marketed that way. [00:46:05] Um, but we can also... And, and y- yes, 100%, we n- it [00:46:10] should be easier for us to eat real food. It should be easier for us [00:46:15] to, um, nourish and care for our bodies, especially in one of the... You know, we're here in the [00:46:20] US, we're here in the United States.
[00:46:21] Kris Carr: Right. We're one of the richest, most powerful nations in the world. Um, [00:46:25] it's ridiculous. Our healthcare system is ridiculous. Our- Yeah ... our, uh, our [00:46:30] food system is ridiculous. It's broken. There's no doubt about that. So let's just say yes, [00:46:35] and we gotta hack the system.
[00:46:36] Dr. Taz: Yeah, we definitely do. And what... You [00:46:40] know, I'm thinking about your five pillars a- and people listening.
[00:46:43] Dr. Taz: Is there one, [00:46:45] if they're trying to nail their starting point in a [00:46:50] healing journey, right? Because you and I are both very aligned in that these are healing journeys. These are not about [00:46:55] curing, these are not about fixing, these are not necessarily about- Yeah ... getting an A on their report card. Which is so [00:47:00] funny to me, because patients all the time are like, "Did I do better?
[00:47:02] Dr. Taz: Did I do... How did I do?" You know? So [00:47:05] I'm like, "The numbers are better." Yeah. But like, how are you? You know? So, [00:47:10] but- ... is the starting point stress and cortisol?
[00:47:13] Kris Carr: I think that's a great place to [00:47:15] start.
[00:47:15] Dr. Taz: I think that's it.
[00:47:16] Kris Carr: I think that's a really, really great place to start, because if you don't get that [00:47:20] down, um, you don't see the breakthroughs that you wanna see, you know?
[00:47:24] Kris Carr: And, and it, I think [00:47:25] it's also hard to stay motivated and keep going when you're feeling that stress- Yeah ... and you're feeling [00:47:30] that anxiety. Um, it could just be as simple as, hey, multiple times a day I'm [00:47:35] gonna pause and I'm gonna do elongated breathing where my exhale is longer than my [00:47:40] inhale. I'm just gonna take a beat.
[00:47:41] Kris Carr: You know, you see these people out on the street, especially in New York City, taking [00:47:45] a cigarette break.
[00:47:45] Dr. Taz: Oh, yeah.
[00:47:46] Kris Carr: And- Wait, is there a cortisol down? Yeah. It's like- Even though they're [00:47:50] smoking ...
[00:47:50] Dr. Taz: well, you know- Like inflammation, oxidative stress, oh. You, exactly.
[00:47:53] Kris Carr: That is, that is [00:47:55] not my suggestion.
[00:47:55] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:47:56] Kris Carr: But the impetus is like, oh, I wanna go outside- Right
[00:47:59] Kris Carr: and [00:48:00] take some deep breaths.
[00:48:01] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:48:02] Kris Carr: Right?
[00:48:02] Dr. Taz: We're not advocating smoking, guys.
[00:48:04] Kris Carr: There's no [00:48:05] smoking involved. Right. But it's like, wow, these moments that we could just take [00:48:10] these mindful pauses. And then the other thing I would say is, you know, working on our gut health.
[00:48:14] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:48:14] Kris Carr: [00:48:15] Because when we start to feel better, you know, you st- y- anybody out there who's struggled with, um, [00:48:20] problems with elimination or whatever that is, bel- bloating, all of the discomfort that comes from that, [00:48:25] um- I'd say the easiest way to begin is something I call add before you subtract.[00:48:30]
[00:48:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. '
[00:48:30] Kris Carr: Cause we wanna stay away from deprivation, so can you do something like add a healthy [00:48:35] smoothie with good fats, and protein, and your phytochemicals, and, you know, fiber, and all the things that are gonna [00:48:40] get the pipes moving, but also fill you with a blast of real nutrition [00:48:45] that's gonna truly fuel your body and that doesn't take much time and energy.
[00:48:49] Kris Carr: Right. You don't-
[00:48:49] Dr. Taz: [00:48:50] Simple things.
[00:48:50] Kris Carr: Yeah, you don't need to know how to cook.
[00:48:51] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:48:52] Kris Carr: And all of the stress that can come with that. Like, "Oh, I gotta get a [00:48:55] cookbook and make recipes too." Right. I'll just put it in the blender and go.
[00:48:57] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:48:58] Kris Carr: Right? So if you can have your [00:49:00] smoothie and take a deep breath, you're on the path.
[00:49:01] Dr. Taz: You're on your way. Now, you've written a number of books. Yes. [00:49:05] Maybe talk for just a second, I know we're pushing up on time here, but talk for just a second about some of your books, [00:49:10] the latest book you mentioned that's coming out and when everyone can maybe get their hands on that, [00:49:15] and then a little bit more about your community and what, you know, somebody who's wanting to join could expect.
[00:49:19] Kris Carr: [00:49:20] Yeah, of course. I have lots of books, um-
[00:49:23] Dr. Taz: How many books do you have now?
[00:49:24] Kris Carr: Seven books.
[00:49:24] Dr. Taz: [00:49:25] Seven books?
[00:49:25] Kris Carr: Seven books.
[00:49:26] Dr. Taz: Oh, my goodness. I know. That's incredible.
[00:49:29] Kris Carr: Oh, thank [00:49:30] you.
[00:49:30] Dr. Taz: That is incredible. These things are like children. They are children. They, like, are like birthing a [00:49:35] child. I know how much energy that is.
[00:49:36] Kris Carr: It, it is,
[00:49:37] Dr. Taz: yes.
[00:49:37] Dr. Taz: That is incredible.
[00:49:37] Kris Carr: Yes, and I have a few unruly teenagers in the [00:49:40] pack.
[00:49:41] Dr. Taz: Me too.
[00:49:42] Kris Carr: Some of my books are for specifically for [00:49:45] cancer patients, others are people who are interested in an anti-inflammatory plant-based diet, cookbooks [00:49:50] and whatnot. And my most recent book, as I said, which is out, um, is about grief and [00:49:55] loss, and it's-
[00:49:55] Dr. Taz: Mm
[00:49:56] Kris Carr: the first of a series of books that will be coming out that really handle [00:50:00] what you and I were talking about, which is addressing what's eating you, and moving into if we know that the [00:50:05] mind/body connection is true, I think I'm in the chapter of my life where I'm, I'm writing more about the mind. [00:50:10]
[00:50:10] Dr. Taz: Ah.
[00:50:10] Kris Carr: Yeah.
[00:50:11] Dr. Taz: I love it.
[00:50:11] Dr. Taz: I mean, I, I don't know if it's just the [00:50:15] evolution of our journeys, but I'm very much about we can look at [00:50:20] the science from here to infinity. We can talk about randomized controlled trials. We [00:50:25] can look at all the innovation that medicine has to offer, and there's so much value to that, but [00:50:30] if we ignore this other half of us, which is our spirit- Mm
[00:50:34] Dr. Taz: and our [00:50:35] emotional experience, even, like, our intergenerational experience, we're missing a [00:50:40] really big piece of the puzzle if we're trying to heal. Yeah. You know? All right, I'm gonna leave you with [00:50:45] one last question, and I think you've answered it, but what makes you whole? [00:50:50]
[00:50:50] Kris Carr: Oh, well, moments like this-
[00:50:52] Dr. Taz: Ah ...
[00:50:52] Kris Carr: that are so- I
[00:50:53] Dr. Taz: love it
[00:50:54] Kris Carr: wonderful- Yeah ... and [00:50:55] nourishing and fun. Um, and then I just will just go back to [00:51:00] and s- and say it again, that idea of, like, we can't amputate our emotions- Yeah ... and expect to be happy, [00:51:05] healthy, functioning people who, like, walk through life feeling peaceful and, and really [00:51:10] self-loving. And so getting to a, continuing to get to a place where the parts of [00:51:15] me that are not, um, what I put on, in my bio, let's say.
[00:51:19] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:51:19] Kris Carr: They're not the [00:51:20] ones that I, I f-
[00:51:20] Dr. Taz: Angry, mean, irritable. Yeah.
[00:51:23] Kris Carr: But I'm like, "You're [00:51:25] okay too." Yeah. You know? And, and you must have something that you wanna share with me, so let me be loving [00:51:30] and curious and get to know what's going on, because I'm, I'm here to help me and, and here to help [00:51:35] others, and so that's my journey.
[00:51:37] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh, this has been such a gift [00:51:40] and such a treat. I've ... It, I'm ... I, like I said in the beginning, I'm [00:51:45] giddy because I have followed you forever, and I know your work, and, you know, [00:51:50] those of us that started out kind of in the Dark Ages, you know- Yeah ... it's so [00:51:55] incredible- ... to, like, share our journeys together, and you're, you're just one of those, you know, shining lights in the [00:52:00] space, for sure.
[00:52:01] Dr. Taz: You know, for everybody who wants to join you in what you're doing and wants to [00:52:05] tap into your universe and doesn't know how, where can they find you?
[00:52:08] Kris Carr: Kriscarr.com
[00:52:09] Dr. Taz: is the easiest. That's easy [00:52:10] enough. Yeah. Thank you so much. Sending you the biggest hug. Thank you for joining me today.
[00:52:14] Kris Carr: [00:52:15] Thanks for having me.
[00:52:15] Dr. Taz: Thank you so much for listening and watching today's episode of Whole+. Be [00:52:20] sure to share this episode with your friends and family, and if you haven't already, please take a moment to [00:52:25] subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or click the follow button on Apple, Spotify, or wherever it [00:52:30] is that you get your podcasts.
[00:52:31] Dr. Taz: And don't forget to follow me on all social channels at [00:52:35] DrTazMD. Until next time, stay healthy and stay whole.