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Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
This is one of the things that my wife had said to me once she says, you know, they're not dumb. They're just short.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. You know?
Father Andrew Andrews:So true. I mean, we have to we have to realize that these are young human beings with brains Yes. With with and with hearts and with souls and with a desire to grow and learn. And so we meet them at their age appropriate level, and we help help nurture that in them.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:They're on the same path everyone else is on. They're just a few steps behind. They haven't gotten up yet because they're at seven.
Michelle Moujaes:Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring the church's timeless wisdom into the everyday chaos of raising kids. I'm Michelle Moujaes, and today today is one of those conversations I have been so excited to have because we're talking about something that I truly believe is one of the most underutilized, most powerful spiritual formation tools that we have access to as Orthodox parents. It's church camp. And I know. I know.
Michelle Moujaes:Some of you may have heard the word camp, and you're thinking about mosquitoes or homesickness or a trunk full of wet socks, which can all be true. Or maybe you thought my kids already go to camp. I don't need to listen to this. I get that. But stick with us because what we're actually talking about today is what happens when you take a child out of the noise, off of their phones, out of the schedules, out of comparison, and exhausting static of modern day life.
Michelle Moujaes:And you drop them into a community of believers, into the rhythm of the church, and into relationships that will carry them for the rest of their lives. Something just happens there. Something that is really hard to replicate anywhere else. And I want you to hear today about why as Orthodox parents, you can lean into it as your kids prepare to go to camp or if you're deciding if they should go to camp, and especially when they come home from camp. Be sure to download the free digital discussion guide linked in your show notes or head to faithtree.org/parenting so that you can continue this conversation at home with your spouse or a friend or your community at church.
Michelle Moujaes:I am so so excited about today's guest. First, because he's a dear friend of mine and someone I deeply respect. And second, because this man has given a significant portion of his life to one very specific, very beautiful ministry, Orthodox Church Camp. Father Andrew Andrews is the pastor of Saint Simeon Orthodox Church in Santa Clarita, California, and also serves as the spiritual adviser of Camp Saint Nicholas in Fraser Park, California, which if you don't know is located up in the mountains about an hour north of Los Angeles. Camp Saint Nicholas is a camp that my children attend, and actually that I attended and even my mother attended decades ago.
Michelle Moujaes:And like many Orthodox camps, be it the Ionian Village, the Antiochian village, the Saint Nicholas Ranch, Camp Nazareth, Camp Agape, Camp Finari, or just any of the dozens of Orthodox camps that our children have access to, Camp Saint Nicholas is a holy place. There's just something different about being there. And since father Andrew has been shepherding campers and counselors and families there for years, I wanted us to hear from him. He has watched literally thousands of kids come through that camp. And he's watched what happens to them, not just during the week of camp, but five, ten, twenty years later when those kids are getting married in the church and baptizing their babies in the church and raising their own families in the faith.
Michelle Moujaes:So basically, he's seen the fruit, which means when father Andrew talks about why camp matters, he's not theorizing. He's just reporting. And honestly, this is one of those conversations where I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna be trying very hard to just sit and nod the whole time because the vision that he cast for what church camp is and what it can do, I think it's generally one of the best kept secrets in our church. Welcome, father Andrew. I'm so thankful that you're here with us today.
Father Andrew Andrews:Thank you, Michelle. It's my pleasure to be here.
Michelle Moujaes:Alright. So, father Andrew, before we get into the camp piece and all of that, I wanna just start here. When you think about Orthodox kids in our church right now, growing up in 2026 at the time of this recording, what do you see? Like, what is it that's unique to this generation that maybe hasn't been there before?
Father Andrew Andrews:Well, I think in this generation, especially this generation that's come out of the pandemic, there is a lot of disconnect. There's a lot of feeling of isolation, some struggles with their identity and trying to figure out who they are in this very different world than their parents grew up in. And maybe every generation says that they grew up in a world very different than their parents, but it I mean, I've seen several generations now that I'm in my sixties, but I think this one is uniquely different.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:And at the same time that they're feeling disconnected in many ways, I feel like they also are really seeking a solution to that in a very active way. Maybe not active in the sense of their of the you could see it from the outside, but inside, they they know that there's things that are a little upside down and they're trying to to write them, but they aren't quite sure how to do it. And I think that's a unique combination of things that is happening in this current generation that maybe wasn't as obvious or as as as much on the surface as it was Before. Before.
Michelle Moujaes:When you talk about disconnection, are you saying disconnection from each other, the church, their family? Like, what do you mean by the word disconnect?
Father Andrew Andrews:Of all of it. They come to church, but sometimes they don't feel that they're part of the life of the church. They have friends, but they don't have the kind of, let's just say, intimate connections, the kind where you are really being your true self, because it's not the norm anymore to be your true self. The norm is to play a character, if you will, to be your social media persona, to not reveal too much about who you are. And and we shouldn't reveal who we are completely to everybody because that's crazy dangerous.
Father Andrew Andrews:But but the idea that they don't quite know how to let their guard down and how to live in a world where their faith and what the world is teaching are out of sync with each other. How do I be an Orthodox Christian and not be afraid that my friends won't wanna be my friends anymore? How do I live what I what what my faith teaches and still feel connected to, you know, the people in my math class or whatever it is. There's confusion there about how it seems like the world and the church are in contradiction with each other. I think a lot of times they feel this way.
Father Andrew Andrews:Mhmm. And also, this is a generation that has does not see in the world what the church teaches about how we should live and how we should live with each other. The examples that they see in school, the examples they see outside of church present a very different picture about how the world is and how we should be in that world. And I think that they they are lacking the the the role models and the examples of how to be a Christian in the world.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:How to be in the world, but not of the world. That's a difficult concept for a 12 year old or a 14 year old or any you know, all our whole demographic that we serve at camp, you know, we can really try to help teach in in a camping ministry.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. One of the things we talk about at Faith Tree a lot, which it's, you know, interesting because here we are with a lot of digital media that we produce and we, you know Yeah. We're sitting on a podcast set, but it's very difficult and countercultural to try and be a Christian when the world is promoting things. I mean, forget, like, materialism or any of that stuff, but, like, branding. Everyone's gotta have a personal brand now.
Michelle Moujaes:It's how you get into college sometimes or self promotion. It goes so much against the grain of who we are that one of the things I love about camp is we can remove ourselves from kind of that mindset. And so I just would wonder, tell me about camp. When parents are thinking about camp, what is the ethos of camp, especially as it relates to kind of being different than the modern world?
Father Andrew Andrews:Mhmm. Well, I think to respond to what you, Rich, started and before you led to the question is what we try to do is strip away all of those false identities Mhmm. To try to get them to understand who they are at their core, that that who they are and what they do are different things, that that their identity isn't how well they did in school that day or whether they have a lot of likes on their social media, but that they're just children of God, that they're loved, that their good days and bad days don't change their worth. So we try to strip away a lot of those monikers that people put on their lives to help with really not a strong understanding of their identity, they create these identities. So the first thing we do at camp is we we say we are gonna create an environment that is an Orthodox Christian experience of living in community.
Father Andrew Andrews:Mhmm. Now I don't mean monastic community, which is a whole another way of Orthodox Christian expression in community. But I mean, how do people that live in the world live in community as Orthodox Christians? What does that look like? And the way that we start with that is in our training and our selection of our staff.
Father Andrew Andrews:We look for people who can embody that, who understand it in their own lives and can live that way hopefully all the time, but certainly when they're at camp. And when we train our staff, we spend maybe 25% of our staff training, teaching them the important things that are required by law and what do you do if there's a fire and what if you do if a bear walks by and what do you do if a random person shows up at camp and all of the safety things and all the things we have to teach as part of our accreditation through American Camping Association. But then the majority of our training is about how do you be a Christian in a difficult time? How do you be a Christian when someone's being mean to you? How do you be a Christian when you're tired?
Father Andrew Andrews:How do you be Christian when things aren't going your way? And we do a lot of scenarios about what does that look like? And we talk a lot about what can you do at camp to reinforce these teachings just in how we sit in the cabin, how we wake up in the morning, how we brush our teeth before we go to bed. I mean, all of these things can inform our how to live as a Christian. And so we try to teach that.
Father Andrew Andrews:And then when the kids arrive, the first thing we do is we strip them down of all of their electronics.
Michelle Moujaes:Yes.
Father Andrew Andrews:We say, you know, turn in your phones, turn in your tablets. If it plugs in and it's not a blow dryer, we don't want it here. That's right. You know? We really don't want the blow dryers here because they probably set off the the circuit breakers, but
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Father Andrew Andrews:But we'll take it. It's a hard thing for kids to give up their technology. And and the way that I know this is that what we tell them is turn off your phone before you give it to me. Otherwise, at three in the morning when one of your friends who doesn't know you're at camp calls you, it's gonna wake up the assistant director whose bunk all of these phones are sitting under all That's right.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:And we want our assistant director to be able to get some sleep. And they don't know how to turn off their phones half of them because they've never once since they bought it ever turned it off.
Michelle Moujaes:I mean, I'm that way. Yeah. I know. It's like a long leash. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Father Andrew Andrews:So so so we do take that off the table right from the start. And it's amazing how much time we get back, how much ability to see another person across from us we get because we're not looking down at our tech. So that first day is a little bit of a separation anxiety with their phone. But Sure. But other than that, it it it opens up the opportunity for them to lift their eyes up and see the nature and see the other people and see and be open to receiving that which we're trying to provide to them.
Father Andrew Andrews:So we always do that. But our ethos at camp is we wanna have everything we do, not just morning program, which is typically focused on Christian education, But all of the day being aligned to Christ, being aligned to a life in Christ, you can be playing on the ball field and be a Christian. Mhmm. You know? And sometimes those are the places where it's the hardest because now we're in competition.
Father Andrew Andrews:So how do we be in competition but still be in love with each other? So we try to encourage every aspect. When we do evening program in one night, we usually do a talent show night. And there are kids that will get up there and really wanna do something and it's a little weird. Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:And it's a little quirky. But to have a 120 other kids cheering for
Michelle Moujaes:you Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Father Andrew Andrews:Even in your weird quirkiness, It's just a reinforcement of the idea that we're all we all are worthy of God's love and we're all we all should be loving each other.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:And so we we give love to even those who might be doing something that in our wildest dreams we would never do or would ever think anyone should do. You know? Because that's their gift, and we're receiving it and giving back love. So we try to teach it across the board.
Michelle Moujaes:So have you ever seen a moment in in your last years doing this where you're like, that is exactly why we do this work. That's it.
Father Andrew Andrews:There was one time well, I I'll give you two examples. One was a member staff who had come on staff, hadn't been involved in camp in quite some time, was probably having some challenges in their own life just trying to find their way as a young adult and took a chance. And we brought them into the program. Everything in that person's life was different after camp.
Michelle Moujaes:Amazing.
Father Andrew Andrews:Involvement in church went up. In involvement in the life of the church went up. Continuing involvement in camp and even growing into more areas of more responsibility. All of this just because that first encounter gave them a path. And then they did all the work after that and walked the path.
Father Andrew Andrews:But it was a life changing kind of choice to say, hey, maybe I'll go on camp staff and see what that's like. And then I've had campers who come in very timid
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:Very uncomfortable. I've seen campers like we have this saying that says if you can get them to Tuesday morning, when they get to the end of the week, they were gonna cry because they don't wanna go home. But the key is to get them to Tuesday morning. And these are even some campers that are older, that are, you know, young, mid aged teens that just have never been away from their parents before. And those first couple days are really hard.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:But then at the end of the week, you see that something happened in this community that got them to the place where they felt they had a place here, that they felt welcome here, that they felt loved here, that they felt better about themselves here, and just left just with a little more confidence that they can go through another day.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. We we had that with all four of my kids. Uh-huh. We always laugh that when we first took them to camp, they cried because they didn't wanna go. But by the time we got there to the end of the week, they cried because they didn't wanna come home.
Michelle Moujaes:So I I definitely see that. Let me ask you for a minute to talk to us about kind of the liturgical life of the of the camping week. So we talk a lot at Faith Tree about being less interested in just information and more interested in that which brings about formation. Like and I think Cam does that so beautifully, is going through the liturgical rhythms and vespers and matins and morning prayers and Christian ed, and it really is an involvement in, I think, what the church lays out for us as possible. How how do you think not only that forms our kids, but what can kids do or parents do to help bring that back down the hill Mhmm.
Michelle Moujaes:When we're not going to multiple services every day?
Father Andrew Andrews:So there's a couple of things I wanna mention there. The first thing I think is how we prepare our session clergy to be session clergy. I I do a whole communication with them talking about what we expect from them when they're there.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:It's not just serve the services and bless the food. We want them to be integrated into the whole life of the program. We want them to be on the ball field playing with the kids. And I've had some priests come up there playing with the kids in their cassocks.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh boy.
Father Andrew Andrews:But I've had some other priests come up in shorts and a t shirt and play with the kids. And I say to them, all of that is good. Do what you need to do, but be accessible, be approachable. Because part of the thing I want to teach is that clergy are people you can go to and not just this scary dude in a fancy outfit the standing in front of a table in a church Mhmm. That seems really far away from who I could just reach out to and say, you know, I got a question.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Father Andrew Andrews:To be in the moment with them, to come and sit in their Christian ed classes or come and sit, you know, with them in the meals. Go and sit at a bench when kids are just chatting. Be engaged. So so in addition to the liturgical life of camp, which we always start each day with some form of prayer service, whether it be matins, sometimes we go up high into the hills and do an akathis, the glory to God for all things, in the middle of the glory of God's creation. And and sometimes we, you know, we do do different things in the morning.
Father Andrew Andrews:In the after in the late afternoons, we're always doing vespers. We do a liturgy every week. We hear a lot of confessions at the camp. Yeah. Not because we want to replace the role of the pastor as the father confessor of these campers, but because sometimes kids don't avail themselves of that.
Father Andrew Andrews:And we want them to know that we wanna teach them that that's normative in the church and that you should be doing it in your home parish. But if you've got stuff, we're here for you. We can help you here and then help redirect you back to your pastor after.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it.
Father Andrew Andrews:So really it's a combination of things. It's preparing our session clergy to understand their roles the whole week. It's having a liturgical life that's robust. And it's also trying to bring that liturgical life into everything we do at camp. So how can we carry that home?
Father Andrew Andrews:Well, the kids seem to carry that home with them. And I hear that from the parents where they'll say, little Billy wants to know why we're not praying before dinner. We do that at camp. Why aren't we doing it home? It's like and the parents are like, oh, yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:That's right.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:And and so sometimes just by experiencing it for a week, it becomes your new normal. And then when you come home and say, I'd like our home normal to be like our camp normal. Even little things like praying before meals or saying our prayers in the morning or or just stuff that the kids even help, if you will, evangelize the parents into a a stronger home Christian experience. The other thing, the other side benefit is the parents that will say, you know, my son makes his bed every day now.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right. That's right. So health parents. So for our parents that are and I know my husband and I would both admit being guilty of this. We sometimes see our kids coming home with such fire, and we're like, are we the ones squashing that?
Michelle Moujaes:How can we really receive them with kind of this fervor and this joy that they come home with Yeah. And help them keep it going? Because I feel like we do a good job for, like, a week, and then I feel like we lose a little bit of the steam. So what would that look like for parents if they wanted to actively pursue extending that fire?
Father Andrew Andrews:Well, I think first thing is just talk to your kids. You know, really sit down with them and say, well, what what you seem really excited. Talk to me about that. What was going on there that that brought you this joy that that and how, you know, to so first understand it. And and then the second thing is is to really look about, you know, what are the basic things we as a family should be doing to to maintain our Christian identity in the home?
Father Andrew Andrews:Do you have a prayer corner in your house?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:If you haven't set up an icon somewhere where you can go and pray, just do it. Mhmm. Encourage them to talk about things a little bit more. Sometimes we forget that our kids are human beings. They're not just our kids.
Father Andrew Andrews:They're actually human beings with ideas and thoughts and and and we don't often sometimes remember to engage them at that level. It's not just like, did you do your homework? But it's like, how are you feeling today?
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:And we try to get to the heart of who they are a little bit at camp and help them find out a little bit about who they are at camp. I think sometimes it's good for a parent to talk with a kid's counselor, maybe.
Michelle Moujaes:Even their camp counselor.
Father Andrew Andrews:Their camp counselor. What do you guys do there? How does your day work? It's not just a, you know, seminary. Right.
Father Andrew Andrews:Right. We're trying to do a full robust life. And then in the evenings, we do fun activities together. And a lot of our evening activities are geared towards building relationships, building friendships, building teams, building you know, it's not just all sit in the corner and watch a movie. We try to engage everyone in a way that they can, you know, build those friendships.
Father Andrew Andrews:And I think it's working because when you can just be your true self and you can be in a safe place to do that, you can build those relationships so much easier. And these are relationships that are solid.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:And we try to encourage that because it's hard to do that.
Michelle Moujaes:What would you I'm just laughing as I think about the dunking campers head scenario. Yes. And I think
Father Andrew Andrews:know who they are, I'm sure.
Michelle Moujaes:I I 100% know who they are. We love them. Head dunkers. But here's the question that comes to mind that we actually hear a lot. You know?
Michelle Moujaes:And we hear it in all sorts of different ways when you work in youth ministry. Mhmm. What what would you say to parents that have fear around not just safety or head dunking or whatever? I know we've kind of like it's a different day in the February than it was in the seventies and eighties where there wasn't so much structure.
Father Andrew Andrews:We don't head dunk anymore.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. There's no more head dunking. But what would you say to parents that have concern? And, like, let's be honest. Your kid may learn some things at camp that they didn't know before they went to camp.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. How do you how do you encourage parents who have especially, I would say, of younger ones who have kind of a fear that sending their kid away for a week or being with people that they may not know as well as they know Mhmm. Their Sunday school teacher or whoever it is.
Father Andrew Andrews:I have had a lot of parents who and this is not an exaggeration, have never had their children out of their sight.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. For sure.
Father Andrew Andrews:And these kids are nine and 10 years old.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. For sure.
Father Andrew Andrews:They are so afraid. And I have to honor that. And the way I honor that is when we prepare our counselors for camp, one of the things we do is and we've done this for the last several years, we bring them up in one of the training days up to Saint Simeon Church in Santa Clarita. And the church has received them and they they we do vespers there and they and and they make a nice meal for us. But then I bring parents and grandparents and people there to do a town hall with the staff.
Father Andrew Andrews:And the theme is I want my staff to know that these people who are sending their kids to camp are sending the thing that is most valuable in their entire lives that they would lay down in front of a train for. Mhmm. And they're saying take care of them for a week. And I want our staff to completely understand that responsibility and that trust that those parents have placed on us. And it has to be foremost in our thinking about the reality of this responsibility for someone's most precious thing, their children.
Father Andrew Andrews:And so we start by being very overt about that. But at the same time, they're gonna be in a cabin with 10 to 15 other kids, and everybody comes to camp with a different context, with a different level of baggage, with a different level of concerns, with a different way of growing up in their homes. Sure. So we are gonna have some people say or do things that someone else would never say or do in their And so what we have to do is recognize that everyone is coming there from a different place, but at the same time, not say that I can now accept everything everybody's gonna wanna say or do. We, you know, we we we have to love everyone, but we can't we don't have to accept everyone's choices as being normative or acceptable.
Father Andrew Andrews:And so what we do is we say, I love you, but this is how we live here.
Michelle Moujaes:I
Father Andrew Andrews:love you, but no, you can't use foul language.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:I love you, but no, you can't make fun of these other kids. We always start with I love you, and we meet them where they are, but we don't meet them where they are and then say where you are is just fine. Mhmm. Mhmm. We meet you where you are to help you get to where you need to be, where where the church wants you to be.
Father Andrew Andrews:And we use the teaching of the church as the guide for where how we direct people. And we've had people, especially some of the older teenagers, they're struggling with all sorts of things. We don't ever say you can't come to camp because you're struggling with this, that, or the other. Mhmm. What we say is we want you at camp.
Father Andrew Andrews:We love you, and we will treat you the same as everyone else. But please understand that some of the things that you are debating in your life are things that the church and and we as leaders in the church are gonna say that's not a path that we wanna go down. Yeah. And this is a really hard concept, especially in this age where it's like you have to love all of me and all my choices or you're a hater and I'm gonna cancel you. You know?
Father Andrew Andrews:You have to be able to understand that it's not that simple. That love and acceptance of everyone's choices are two different things.
Michelle Moujaes:That is right.
Father Andrew Andrews:And you can do one and don't have to do the other. And so we make our camping environment a place that's safe for everyone, but we teach the church.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:And so for parents that are concerned about what if my child is this or my child that, all I can say is I can't control what what people bring up with them. But what I can do is love them all and treat them all the same way and expect the same things from all of them.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right. So as a mother, I've done the, like, try and keep your kids in a bubble and keep them safe and kind of with people that think exactly like we think. But very early on, my husband and I realized that, okay, that's not real life. And, also, we want them to be environments that are safe and protected and teaching the life of the church so that they can build those relationships so that when they struggle, not if, and it it every kid will struggle with something different, but when they struggle, we want those relationships and those environments to be so real for them and so important to them that they have a whole network of people to lean into.
Father Andrew Andrews:And also that they have confidence so that when they're questioned about their choices and their faith by someone who doesn't share that
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Father Andrew Andrews:Or that thinks that the choices that that other person wants to make are perfectly fine for and they should accept them, that they have some context with which to respond.
Michelle Moujaes:That's
Father Andrew Andrews:That they've seen an environment where you can love everyone but not accept everyone's choices. And how do I live like that? And how do I communicate that to my friend and still maintain a friendship? Right. You have to have that confidence that says, I don't have to run away from you
Michelle Moujaes:But I'm not going
Father Andrew Andrews:out that going there with you.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:You know, when the prodigal son went into the pigpen, the father didn't jump in there with him, but he was ready to embrace him as soon as he came out. We don't have to go in the pigpen with our friends to still love them.
Michelle Moujaes:Well, and that's what I do love about the camping environment because as they're being formed and learning the faith and understanding more and doing it in a community of people where that's the norm. So they aren't the odd man out. I love that idea. It reminds me of what Khuri Gigi Shaddad, a a priest wife in Houston says all the time about respecting the spiritual intelligence of our children. And it's in those environments with people who think and receive the church's wisdom.
Michelle Moujaes:Right? So they're not the odd man out Mhmm. But where they can build that spiritual intelligence. I love that that happens in a safe space where they can kind of learn who they are as an Orthodox Christian and then be be ready to stand. I love that.
Father Andrew Andrews:Yeah. I mean, this is one of the things that my wife had said to me once. She said, you know, they're not dumb. They're just short.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. You know? So true.
Father Andrew Andrews:I mean, we have to we have to realize that these are young human beings with brains Yes. With with and with hearts and with souls and with a desire to grow and learn. And so we meet them at their age appropriate level, and we help them nurture that help nurture that in them.
Michelle Moujaes:That's
Father Andrew Andrews:right. But, yeah, they're on the same path everyone else is on. They're just a few steps behind. They haven't gotten up yet because they're at seven.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right. Love that's why I wore this shirt today. I don't know if you can see it. It says, we cannot borrow the faith of our parents. And I think at camp is where, at least for myself and for my own children, and for so many mean, I've I've been involved in camp staff for years myself.
Michelle Moujaes:But to see that is where our children begin to really, for lack of a better word, take ownership of their own faith and and for their own journey, and they make it their own. And it happens in the camping environment because you can't you can hand it down, which we do beautifully at camp Mhmm. But you can't borrow it. I can't borrow my mom's face.
Father Andrew Andrews:Mhmm.
Michelle Moujaes:Right? That doesn't work. So I love that because I think camp is where that happens. Okay.
Father Andrew Andrews:I I also want I also try to make sure that when we're doing things at camp that we are accessible, that they see especially in the services, that there's a that, you know, sometimes children children need to be reminded that there are roles for everyone in the church.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:And so I have you know, the the young boys, they always are like signing I wanna serve. I wanna serve with we're doing Vespers. We have like one little entrance, and there's 37 guys that wanna serve for Vespers.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. And also boy.
Father Andrew Andrews:And the the boys and the girls are always at the chanter stand. I mean, sometimes we have, like, 25 of them over there chanting.
Michelle Moujaes:That's great.
Father Andrew Andrews:And they and most of them are really good, know the tones and everything, and and they're eight.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Father Andrew Andrews:And and it's beautiful. And and we'll have kids do the readings. Well, anything that we can do to incorporate them into the surgical life.
Michelle Moujaes:Love it.
Father Andrew Andrews:You know, even if it's just help me because we're doing the at the top of the hill and I help take the stuff up that we need. That's right. You're part of it. You're part of the service by making sure we can do the service.
Michelle Moujaes:It's so funny that you say that because yesterday so I teach a high school Sunday school class. Yesterday, we sat down, my co teacher and I, with all of our teenagers, and we told the story of one of my children went off to college and said, I don't really wanna serve as an altar boy anymore. Do you think that's fair? And I was like, yeah. I think it's fair, but you gotta do something.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. Like, you can choose what you wanna do, but it takes everybody in a family to make the household work. And so we kinda played out for for the kids in our class, like, you get to choose, but just because you're 13 doesn't mean you don't have a role to play. And what I love about what you just said in about camp is for a functioning family or household to work, everybody's got to bring their gifts
Father Andrew Andrews:and
Michelle Moujaes:offer them. Mhmm. Right? Otherwise, it just falls on one person or two people, and that's not a family. And I think camp does that so beautifully as it really highlights, like, what are your gifts?
Michelle Moujaes:What is God, you know, calling you to, and how can you serve this family?
Father Andrew Andrews:Or just to expose you to enough things so you can figure out what your gifts are.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. I love that.
Father Andrew Andrews:Because sometimes we don't oh, I don't know that I can do anything. Yeah. Well, here's 37 things.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right. That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:I bet one of these things, you're gonna have a affinity for.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, I love it so much. Okay. Do you have time for a few, listener questions?
Father Andrew Andrews:Okay.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. Here's the first one. A mother of three from Grand Rapids, Michigan writes, our parish is small, and we don't have a lot of Orthodox kids my children's age. My daughter is nine and starting to feel like being Orthodox makes her weird. Is church camp really gonna help her feel less alone in that, or will one week at camp and then being back to the only Orthodox at school actually make it harder?
Michelle Moujaes:That's fair.
Father Andrew Andrews:It's a difficult situation when you don't have those connections all the time. But I would say that coming to camp and being surrounded by over a 100 kids that are of like faith, like mind, it will help kind of strengthen your own understanding of who you are, but also that camp doesn't just last one week.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Father Andrew Andrews:You know, we build friendships at camp that we can continue just because they don't go to my school doesn't mean I can't maintain a friendship with them or talk to them about some of the things that are going on at What's my going on at your school? How do you do this? How do you do that? We build those connections and we can maintain them. Also, doesn't just happen in summer.
Father Andrew Andrews:Come come if you if your camping programs offer a winter program, come to the winter program. That's right. Encourage your you know, maybe the family could talk to the the pastor about, hey, maybe we could do some kind of family camp.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:Let's get all of our people together and go to some place that's beautiful and just spend a day I love that. Praying and playing. I love that. There's ways that you can bring camp back down the mountain with you so it doesn't have to just be one week a year. I'm being I'm an Orthodox Christian for a week, and then I'm on an island the rest of It the doesn't have to be that way.
Father Andrew Andrews:Use these as a as a as a starting off point to build those relationships and then leverage them throughout the year.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. Okay. This comes from Brandon in Asheville, North Carolina. We're catechumens. We just came into the church this past Pascha.
Michelle Moujaes:My daughter doesn't know the prayers, doesn't know the services, and I'm really worried she'll be embarrassed at camp because everybody else will have grown up with each other and with the faith. Is it still the right call to send her?
Father Andrew Andrews:Absolutely.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That's a legitimate concern though because I know
Father Andrew Andrews:But now
Michelle Moujaes:you feel like the outsider
Father Andrew Andrews:just because people come to camp, that they know all the prayers and they know everything.
Michelle Moujaes:That's true too.
Father Andrew Andrews:There's it's a whole mixed bag.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:But the nice thing is because we are a lot of consistency about the the worship, so we we'll do matins the same way, we'll do vespers the same way, We have a camp book that the archdiocese has put together that has those services in it. We have a copy for every kit. You can follow along on the services. We encourage congregational singing of the other than the special hymns that, you know, are different every week, but I want three I want 200 people to say, Lord, have mercy.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Father Andrew Andrews:This is one of the most powerful prayers in the whole liturgy is Lord, have mercy, and I want them all to do it.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:So so just be because you don't have that in your wheelhouse that you don't feel that it's like all memorized, it doesn't matter. Because first of all, it's like on Holy Friday when we're singing those hymns at the funeral of Christ and you sing about, you know, hundreds of them. And if you don't know the melody when they start, by the time you've heard the fourth one, you pretty much can sing along because
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:It's not a complicated thing. It's just something you just need to hear. And similar to that, when we're at camp, you know, we pray every day. We pray the same way. If you've not been exposed to that, by the time you get to Tuesday, you're good.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That's right. I love it. Okay. This one comes from a mother of four in Bethesda, Maryland.
Michelle Moujaes:My husband is not Orthodox. He's supportive of our kids' faith, but when it comes to sending them away for a full week to a religious camp, he hesitates. He wants our summer to be family time. How can I help him understand that camp isn't a subtraction from our family, but it's actually forming the kind of family we want to be in?
Father Andrew Andrews:First, I would say I would not classify this as a religious camp. A religious camp has some implications that I don't think is what we try to do. We're trying to be a community of Orthodox Christians living together.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that.
Father Andrew Andrews:Is our faith and learning about our faith a part of living in a community of of Christians? Absolutely. Mhmm. But so is playing dodgeball.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:And so is singing a song in front of people. And so is doing a skit. And so is eating s'mores at the campfire. Mhmm. You know, this is about how to not make being a Christian being something you do on Sunday.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Father Andrew Andrews:But it's about how do I live knowing what I know, being in the faith that I am, and understanding the revelation of God in the way that we do. What does that mean when I'm at school? What does that mean when I'm on the bus? What does that mean when I'm at the movies? That's what we wanna teach there.
Father Andrew Andrews:So that's helpful to a family because when you have a comfort level that I can live this way all the time, doesn't that infuse more love, more compassion, more understanding, more peace in the family life too?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. I love that. Okay. This one, Jason from Tulsa, Oklahoma, father of two boys, ages 11 and 14. He asks, my 14 year old went to camp two summers ago and loved it.
Michelle Moujaes:Then last year, he refused to go and said camp was cringe and he's too old. This year, I'm not sure whether I push him or just let it go. What do I do with a teenager who's outgrowing something that was working? So good, Jason. And I know I've heard that before.
Michelle Moujaes:Lots of people will say, oh, my kid went, and then they didn't wanna go. What would you say?
Father Andrew Andrews:I would say you're the parent.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Father Andrew Andrews:So so sometimes we have our children do something that out of the box they say, I don't really wanna do. I think camp is a safe place to send a kid even if he's a little uncomfortable about being there as long as he's open to the experience. Sometimes when kids are that age and they're pushing back, it's not about camp. It's about stuff going on in their lives that they're really struggling with or they're confused about or they're trying to figure out who they are, what their purse you know, who they are separate from who their parents are. This is that age where they try to build that isolation so that they can be unique Right.
Father Andrew Andrews:You know, individuals, but they don't know how to do that. And so sometimes pushing away from camp is a is a byproduct of all of that that's going on in their heads. Fair. And I think if we can push through that and say, you know what? Just go and give it a good try.
Father Andrew Andrews:And maybe even let their counselor know not you know, some parents come and say, my son is allergic to shoelaces and everything and you it's like seven and don't give them broccoli. And what I don't mean that kind of talk to their counselor, but let them know, you know, he's a little uncomfortable about being at camp this week, so maybe just keep an eye. Yeah. Yeah. And and our counselors know how to do that.
Father Andrew Andrews:Sometimes that's when you need to be in a community that's safe.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Father Andrew Andrews:In a community of people that love you unconditionally. In a community that can let you work through those things without fear.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. I love that. Lightning round. Camp edition. Are you ready?
Father Andrew Andrews:No. Okay.
Michelle Moujaes:Best camp food, honestly.
Father Andrew Andrews:Sasquatch bake.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, I don't even know what that is, but it sounds good.
Father Andrew Andrews:Oh, it came from our new, camp, manager and to her husband. It's a homemade concoction, and it is so good that now in the campfire songs, they sing about it.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh my goodness. Okay. One thing every Orthodox kid should do before they age out of camp.
Father Andrew Andrews:Do a hike up into the mountains, lay on the ground, and stare at the stars.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, I love it. I would never do that bugs. Okay. Most overrated piece of gear that parents always pack?
Father Andrew Andrews:I would say the most overrated thing that parents pack is to take all of their kids' clothing and put them in individual Ziploc bags.
Michelle Moujaes:I used to do that.
Father Andrew Andrews:It says Monday morning Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. I used on the side.
Father Andrew Andrews:Evening and then Tuesday morning. It's once they get to camp, it's
Michelle Moujaes:like they
Father Andrew Andrews:throw it all over the place.
Michelle Moujaes:A 100%.
Father Andrew Andrews:Or the opposite happens. Like, they come home with a bunch of Ziploc bags still sealed.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That we had that
Father Andrew Andrews:wearing the same clothes they got camp in.
Michelle Moujaes:I had one child come home, and we literally peeled the socks off of him. I said, son, did you shower? He goes, no. I was like, are you kidding me?
Father Andrew Andrews:We we do have a we do have a technique that says if you're wearing the camp shirt past Wednesday, it's time to go in your back in your suitcase and look for something else.
Michelle Moujaes:So gross, but also so common. Alright. If every parent listening to this episode did one thing this week, just one as it relates to camp, what would you want it to be? Pray for their kids. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:That's so good.
Father Andrew Andrews:I mean, we're gonna do the program. Yes. We're we've got everything we need. We have the trained people. We have the facility.
Father Andrew Andrews:We have a beautiful facility. We have programs that are tested and true. We have a great set of staff and and session priests that have committed to be there. What we need is your prayers.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that so much. Father Andrew, my friend, thank you for your time and your wisdom and for all these years of serving people through the camping program. We're grateful you're here.
Father Andrew Andrews:Thank you, Michelle. It's been a great pleasure to be with you.
Michelle Moujaes:And thank you for being with us today. Listen. I want you to hear this clearly. Church camp is not a nice extra or add on. It's not a vacation, and it's not the Orthodox version of summer daycare.
Michelle Moujaes:What father Andrew just painted a picture of is one of the most powerful formation tools that we have as parents in this moment. A real breathing, praying, laughing community where our kids get to see what Orthodox life looks like lived out, not just performed or not polished, but actually lived out alongside other kids who love the same Christ that they do. So here's my encouragement to you parents. Whatever age your child is, whatever parish you attend, whatever your family story is, find out what's going on in your metropolis or your diocese or your region. Start the conversation.
Michelle Moujaes:Plant the seed and make the plan. And if you can, send them because the fruit of a week at church camp can last a lifetime. Don't forget to download the free digital discussion guide in the show notes because it is designed to help you take this conversation into your living room or your car rides or your parish. And if the episode moved you, please share it with another Orthodox parent who needs to hear it. Until next time, God bless you.
Michelle Moujaes:God bless your families, and God bless the camps of our holy Orthodox Church. I'll see you soon.