Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast

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Recorded at Ten86 Lounge in Hawthorne, New Jersey the lizards pair the Cohiba Piramides Extra with Camu Borderies XO. The guys continue their journey into Cuban piramides, they do a deep dive on Cohiba’s line, and they explore a super premium cognac.

Join the Lounge Lizards for a weekly discussion on all things cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban), whiskey, food, travel, life and work. This is your formal invitation to join us in a relaxed discussion amongst friends and become a card-carrying Lounge Lizard yourself. This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.

website/merch/rating archive: loungelizardspod.com
email: hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
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What is Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast?

Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.

The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.​

This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.

Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!

**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Poobah, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder, and Bam Bam, a full house of lizards, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some cognac, Talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.

So take this as your 115th official invitation to join us, and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a Cuban cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We continue our journey into Cuban pyramids. We do a deep dive on Cojipa's line.

And we explore a super premium cognac, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy, as we pair Camu Borderis XO Cognac with the Cohiba Pyramides Extra. A beautiful pyramid from Cuba tonight on the [00:01:00] pod. It's called the Cohiba Pyramides Extra.

It's a 54 ring gauge cigar by six and a quarter inches long. And boys, this is going to be very, very good, I think. I'll tell you, it's a beautiful cigar. I'm very excited. So who in the room has had this cigar?

**Poobah:** I have, I have not.

**Bam Bam:** No one. This is Poobah. I have it all the time. Except for you, Giz. Giz. Giz? No, I saved that for the right moment.

**Gizmo:** Okay. No, these are really, really great. I'm excited to do these tonight. I never, you know, when we did the Battle of the Pyramides last year, we did kind of the, Traditional sized pyramids, which are a little smaller. They're actually 52 ring gauge by six and an eighth inch. So they're two, uh, two, uh, sizes smaller than the ring gauge and they're an eighth and shorter.

Uh, we did the battle of the pyramids. I didn't think that we were actually going to do this, but the opportunity came up when we were in Cohiba earlier this year to get our hands on some of these from the Guito and, uh, and here we are tonight, so I'm glad that we're [00:02:00] adding this to our, uh, List of Pyramids

**Bam Bam:** tonight.

Um, is anyone getting anything on the wrapper? On the nose at all? Nothing, right? It smells very good. It's nice, but very mild.

**Poobah:** Very mild, yeah. Very mild. Invisible seams. Yeah. Beautiful wrapper. Yeah. Invisible seams, virtually. Uh.

**Bam Bam:** Not much on the nose here, right now.

**Gizmo:** Well, let's cut this thing, boys. See what we're getting on the cold draw.

Hopefully get a little bit more there. It's not heavy. No. It's a very, yeah, it's not densely packed. No, it's

**Poobah:** not. The drawers wide open. No, no, no. It's not unlike, um, some of the cigars we've reviewed in a similar ring gauge. I

**Gizmo:** love the cold draw on these man.

**Bam Bam:** It's dried fruit and been, I'm getting a lot of banana on this thing.

Dried fruit, banana heavy for

**Gizmo:** me. I get a little nuttiness.

**Bam Bam:** Wow. Very nice.

**Senator:** I have to say the construction is impeccable, flawless

**Bam Bam:** and the foot

**Poobah:** draws great. Yeah, [00:03:00] I'm trying to look, I'm looking at the wrapper. Like I saw actually, I looked around the room and I saw everybody just kind of staring at the cigar because it's got, it's got a little bit of that.

Um, and we're in a dark room. It's got a little bit of a sheen to it, which is always a good sign. And the seams, uh, and the construction overall of this, of this particular cigar that we're smoking is real. It's just, it's looks pretty flawless. Rooster's ready to light up.

**Gizmo:** Let's do it boys. Let's light this thing, the Cohiba Pyramides Extra.

Again, it's a 54 ring gauge pyramid by six and a quarter inches long, a beautiful, unique size to Cohiba out of, uh, Cuba. Would you say that the

**Bam Bam:** wrapper is delicate or thick on this guy?

**Poobah:** Oh, it's, I think it's just

**Gizmo:** right. Yeah. I've never had problems with these wrappers, but, um, I, I wouldn't say that they're delicate in my experience.

**Poobah:** Not thick. [00:04:00] It's not delicate. I think it's just right. Actually. You need the

**Bam Bam:** right lighter to light a cigar like this, like a new, like a torch. I think a match is better inside any time. Or a

**Poobah:** single flame. Yeah, or a single flame, yeah.

**Gizmo:** I've been waiting for this cigar all day, boys. Delicious on the light.

One word,

**Senator:** wow.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's dessert.

**Senator:** Great dessert. This is a treat. Super sweet, creamy. I love this on the

**Gizmo:** light. Little saltiness too, just a touch. The right amount. Nuttiness. Dude,

**Bam Bam:** I'm really excited to be smoking this right now.

**Gizmo:** It's a beautiful cigar. We're very, very lucky. Previewing beautifully right now.

**Poobah:** Special smoke. Yeah. Yeah. If this can hold, if this can continue,

**Bam Bam:** what do these retails,

**Gizmo:** so that's the problem. Ba . And the question [00:05:00] I was the challenge, the question I was hoping you were not going to answer or ask, you mean these cigars, uh, come in a couple different formats. The traditional 10 count format, just the 10 count, you know, uh, box, like the D four box, I similar to that, can I?

**Bam Bam:** A 10 count, 125.

**Gizmo:** You're on the money. 120 bucks a stick. Is that right? Right now. That's a wild guess. 1, 200 bucks for a box. A box just came up actually today. You wouldn't,

**Bam Bam:** you wouldn't pay that for this? I mean, just to have it a new humidor. I don't know. We just, we

**Gizmo:** just let it. It's a little early. It is, you

**Bam Bam:** know.

We're two pups in, I'm like a dog chasing an ambulance. It gets, I get excited. All right.

**Poobah:** I

**Gizmo:** thought you were going to say you already have four boxes.

**Poobah:** No,

**Bam Bam:** he might. I have no cohesive

**Senator:** boxes. Yeah. We haven't gotten an updated inventory list, by

**Bam Bam:** the way. You know, I was looking at it earlier. It's on our note.

I'm actually dying to unload my tower, go through the whole thing and update it. Maybe we are dying

**Gizmo:** for it too. The

**Bam Bam:** weekend is coming up. I may do it this weekend.

**Gizmo:** Beautiful. Can I give you some credit though? [00:06:00] So on a prior episode, we released, I believe in November, it was the Bolivar Corona, uh, Gigantes episode, Discontinued Cigar.

We gave Bam some shit about all the Bolivar he had in his tower. And boys, what did Bam do today before this podcast? He showed up with three boxes of Bolivar Petit Corona, and he gave us all one. Our choice of box code. Very, very kind, Bam. I gotta give you the credit. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's a new year.

**Senator:** He doesn't believe us when we say we don't have certain boxes, and he does, and we like to try them. I don't. But Gizmo and I immediately said, We have not one box of Boulevard Petit Coronas in our entire tower.

**Bam Bam:** It's true. Let me tell you, Kiss. I went home. I'm giving you credit. I went home. I looked at Mrs.

Bam Bam like, Honey, I'm getting a lot of flack. I went right downstairs, got those boxes and came right over.

**Poobah:** It was a must. You listened to the pod tonight. That was right, that was right before I was over there.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. Wait,

**Bam Bam:** were you wearing a ski mask? [00:07:00]

**Poobah:** Little cops and robbers.

**Bam Bam:** All right. This is banned. Okay.


**Gizmo:** Keeps it interesting. Like I said, boys, these come in two different formats exclusively. They come in that varnished Boyd Nature box of 10 cigars, and they also come in two bows, which I think are really, really classy. You know, when you're getting a cigar of this size in a pyramid format out of a tubo, they come in the 15 aluminum tube cigars, uh, which are the five cardboard packs of three.

What's interesting is this cigar only was released in 2012. So this is the latest edition. To the Linea Classica, let's call it, of Cohiba Cigars in Cuba.

**Bam Bam:** And how many months old is this cigar?

**Gizmo:** So the box code on this is G E S M A R 23. It's a very young cigar, less than a year. Which is why I wanted to do it.

Six to eight months. Yes, it's about ten months. Nice. Ten months. So the reason why I wanted to do Rick still lost it!

**Poobah:** Rick still lost it! We went from ten months to a few months. Oh, [00:08:00] Jesus.

**Gizmo:** Is it ten months? No, it's a few months.

**Bam Bam:** I'm saying a few months. So he can correct me. Yeah. I'm giving him an opportunity to correct me.


**Gizmo:** circle talk. It's a few dollars. No, there's a cadence. He and I, it's only, it's

**Poobah:** only a few, it's only a few dollars more. And then the invoice comes in and it's 30,

**Bam Bam:** 000.

**Gizmo:** No, we're on the same page. And the reason why I wanted to do this cigar. Young is number one. This is, you know, the age that you're finding these cigars.

Now, if you're buying them, you know, from a, from a source like friends of El Habano or I Havana, something like that, you're getting box codes around this time, but also I think like a lot of other young Cuban cigars that we've done on the podcast and we've all been smoking, I think these are performing.

At the top of their game, even with less than a year of age on it. And obviously we're going to see how that goes tonight, but that's why I brought in fresh cigars tonight. I


**Bam Bam:** know. We're a halfway, we're about a half inch in. It's incredible.

**Senator:** So I have a question. You said this was released in 2012, [00:09:00] 2012.

So is this one of the newest pyramids?

**Gizmo:** It is the newest pyramid. Okay. And yeah, as far as regular production pyramids from, uh, Habanos, this is the latest edition in the regular production pyramid. Well, they've taken

**Senator:** good notes because this is off to a hell of a start.

**Gizmo:** And like I said, it's interesting that Kohiba in choosing to release a pyramid in 2012, uh, decided to increase the ring gauge and also the length of it.

You know, the Pyramides Extra. You know, as opposed to the classic Pyramides size, which we had done, the H Upman No. 2, the Partagas Series P No. 2, the Diplomaticos, uh, the Monte Cristo No. 2, those are all 52 by 6 18. This is 54 by 6 14. So, That's also an interesting decision too. And I think that it reflects in the blend.

Like Rooster said, it's not a densely packed cigar. I think there's a lot of tobacco in here, but I think that extra breathing room in the ring gauge makes it such that we have seven cigars here right now. All of us are having a great draw experience. Great [00:10:00] combustion experience. I think that it benefits from that extra ring gauge.

**Poobah:** What can you tell, I'm not a Cohiba aficionado. What can you, what can anyone tell us about the blend? Is there, is there more, is there some Medio Tiempo in here that gives it that? No, that's only in the Bajique. That's right. Is that

**Gizmo:** only in the Bajique? That's only in the Bajique, but there is something special about some of the leaf.

In Cohiba tobacco. That's doesn't exist in any of the other brands for getting Medio Tempo as Poobah just mentioned, that's only in Beheke. The secco and Leharo filler leaf used in Cohiba is given an extra fermentation of around 25 days in the wooden barrels that we saw in that fermentation room at El Deguito.

So this tobacco actually gets an extra 25 days of fermentation in those barrels that no other tobacco in Cuba gets. Just for Cohiba cigars. I'll never forget the

**Senator:** smell in that

**Gizmo:** room. Incredible. When you stick your face in that barrel. Gosh.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. It was like, honestly, it smelled like Cognac. The entire room was like [00:11:00]

**Poobah:** Cognac.

Yeah. And they're getting in, you know, my understanding not being a huge Cohiba. I don't have any Cohiba in my, I have a couple. Um, but I don't have any significant amount of Cohiba in my Hubert or, I mean, the primings. Are there are premium they get the top of the you know, basically the the cream of the crop in terms of the

**Gizmo:** printings They do and also the

**Rooster:** top rollers

**Poobah:** Are the top roll?

Yeah now agito. Yeah, of course

**Gizmo:** um, but to your point about about the tobacco used, you know when when The production folks at Legito are needing to go to, uh, Vuelta Abajo and Panar del Rio and actually purchase tobacco. They actually go to specific farms. They go to specific marketplace type setups for tobacco.

Cohiba Legito has premier access to the best tobacco coming out of Panar del Rio. They have special relationships with specific farmers and farms there. So it's not run of the mill. Yeah. They're not just being fed tobacco. [00:12:00] That they have to choose from and use. They actually go out and source the tobacco that they feel is going to be the best for Cohiba.

I have to


**Senator:** very interesting. No socialism in that process. Everybody doesn't get the same thing when it comes to the tobacco.

**Gizmo:** That's very true.

**Poobah:** Exactly right. Now, with Cohiba. Um, and I'm asking these questions only because I, I, I don't, it's not a marker that I, you know, that I pursue, so I don't really research it as much yet.

Um, yet, I, uh, and, but many of us have, many of us have, it's come a, we've all had to kind of come a long way to come around to Cohiba. Um, particularly the man to my left. He's come around a little bit. I think

**Gizmo:** he's pointing to Mr. Senator. This may be

**Senator:** the only cigar that's maybe a

**Poobah:** touch. Uh, anyway, you know, yeah.

Uh, but putting the price and the value and all that stuff aside, are there, are there problems with, I mean, there are certainly probably less problems with draw, combustion, the quality control on [00:13:00] Cohiba, what's the, what's the latest talk around that? And how, how are they doing right now with the QC and are they really putting out cigars that are, I mean, clearly this one's performing fantastic, but are there problems

**Gizmo:** with them?

I think the recent run, and I think that this is widely accepted what I'm about to say on various forums in the room, outside the room, friends, et cetera. I think the recent run of tobacco out of Laguito specific to Cohiba, which is answering your question, but also a lot of the tobacco from almost every factory.

Has been a significantly improved quality in both the flavor, the blending decisions, and in the construction,

**Bam Bam:** almost

**Poobah:** across all markets, as of as of

**Gizmo:** late, as of late now, Legito is notorious for having the best QC and the best output. Yes. So when you're purchasing now, if it's me, uh, and I'm going to purchase a box of [00:14:00] 1, 200 cigars, for some reason, I'm probably.

And their Cohiba, I'm probably going to be looking for El Liguito box codes because with that kind of investment, I do not want to see cigars coming from Provincials or another factor that I'm not very familiar with. And also, does that

**Poobah:** happen with

**Gizmo:** Cohiba? It still does. They're trying to move all Cohiba production to Liguito.

It just hasn't happened yet. They still are producing Corona and other factories. Yeah.

**Rooster:** And another thing to note. Is when we were at the Lagito factory during the tour, they said every single Cohiba cigar goes through a draw machine, every single one,

**Gizmo:** which is unique to that brand, not just

**Rooster:** random out of, you know, they don't,

**Poobah:** they don't

**Gizmo:** pick them at a batch, every single cigar goes through a draw machine, that's right, and the fact that Lagito is one of the smaller, it is the smallest mother factory as far as the amount of people on the grounds and certainly the quantity of rollers rolling those cigars, there's [00:15:00] Probably less than a hundred rollers at Laguito, whereas at Corona, I think the number is going to jump to five or 700 in the next 10 years.

You know, so that's five or seven x what they're doing at Lito. Um, and they also have lower production requirements at Lito. Sure. So those rollers are premier. Yeah. You know, they're treated really well. Um, they're the creme de la creme, certainly in the Bahi K saloon where they're rolling bihi. K those are the nine, nine plus rollers.

They're in a separate

**Poobah:** room themselves. That's so the price, the price is firing on all cylinders, obviously. And the, and it sounds like the quality. Um, has improved a bit since maybe, I don't know, five years ago.

**Gizmo:** It, it, my perception. And I think our collective perception being at Laquito and talking to the production manager there on the team there, my perception is that they're really feeling the pressure of the market.

They're really feeling the pressure of Habanos to make sure that every cigar that comes out of there is at the

**Poobah:** highest quality. Cause like I've had some Coros I've had that I know were real. I've [00:16:00] had some other Vitolas. Many over the years and the consensus, uh, I was always kind of like, it's okay, but like, it's not, this isn't from a, uh, a price to experience ratio, like working for me, you know what I mean?

Um, also. They, they showed particularly with the Robusto, um, and even the Siglos that I've had, sometimes they've, they've shown some youth where you're like, these really need to lay down a lot. Like this cigar is clearly young, clearly needs to lay down longer. This has been my experience with Cohiba. But I think that,

**Gizmo:** I think what you're saying is still the case though, with most of Cohiba.

I think that most Cohiba still needs time. It still needs to lay down. You know, we came home with some Siglo 5s from that same trip. They're not ready for primetime yet. Whereas I think the experience that I've had with these specific cigars in our hand is very, very

**Senator:** different. I would [00:17:00] just say I've probably been the most vocal critic of Cohiba here and the reason for that, and I'm hoping this cigar is going to be the one that Somewhat changes my perspective a bit on Cohiba.

The reason for me is every other marca in the Habanos portfolio that we smoke, we have found young cigars that are great. We can, I mean, especially just in the last year, you think of brand new releases that some markets have put out for the first time ever. These are as fresh of cigars as we would ever be willing to smoke.

And they were delicious. They were incredible. And my problem has been with a Cohiba Robusto with Seaglows I've had in the past. Um, really. Any of the young Cohibas I've had over years time, none of them have been enjoyable. The youth shows in like such an aggressive and not enjoyable way that for me, the fact that there's a premium for that brand, it's just incompatible for me, right?

If I'm going to pay more, well, then I expect more. And the problem is I'm getting less and I'm, [00:18:00] I'm expected to put these cigars down in my humidor for five years, at least until I can smoke them. There's almost no cigar that I have to do that with that. I produce that I purchase in quantity that I really enjoy now, where I see the promise of Cohiba, um, grinder had once, uh, gifted me a little sampler, uh, at one point and in it was an 05 Cohiba Robusto that was absolutely.

Incredible, but that had a ton of age on it. I mean, it's truly spectacular. And so just the frustration for me is like, there's no D four. There's no upman that I need to wait 10, 15 years to have a spectacular experience with. And so it's just so frustrating. I'm like, Why am I paying more to have to wait more time than any other brand to get that experience?

But I will say this cigar, I mean, there's probably a half inch of ash on here. This is the best experience I've had with any young Cohiba by far. And if it can [00:19:00] stay like this all the way through, then I will, there's hope for me in this,

**Bam Bam:** this brand. Yeah. So other than the fact that the price is prohibitive for many people, if the younger Cohibas are smoking the way this one is, I want to piggyback on what you said.

It makes a lot of sense to start pursuing them. The only good Cohibas I've had wasn't, wasn't Cuba. I've had young, the Cohiba Lancero, the Coro. I had a few of those there. They were young for me. They were fantastic. Stateside having to pay for that cigar. Unlikely.

**Poobah:** Yeah. But the price

**Rooster:** prices when, you know, going back like five years, they were high to begin with for the Cohibas.

And they're never going to come out there like three to four times more. Yeah. They're never coming down, you

**Gizmo:** know?

**Senator:** So. For, to, to Rooster's point, I mean, a cigar, like we think of Robustos that we regularly smoke that are Cuban, we used to be able to get. Aparagus D4 for like 10, 12 bucks. And at that time, a Coheber Busto was like 35 bucks.

Now you look at the price, I mean it's so, it's over a hundred dollars. It's crazy. It's nuts. [00:20:00] It's crazy. And that's what just makes it a really hard decision. You're sitting there saying to yourself like, why would I pay three, four times the price for a cigar that I know is not even smokable

**Gizmo:** young? Yeah, I think

**Rooster:** there's a certain mystique with the Cohiba brand.

Uh, so a lot of people, you know, it's like a status symbol to be smoking a Cohiba and

**Poobah:** showing that label off. Yeah,

**Bam Bam:** especially in certain markets around the world, right? Asia in particular.

**Poobah:** Oh, well, yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's Asia. I think it's, I think it's the U. S. I think it's everywhere that, um. That that label, it's a status symbol, just like, just like a luxury watch or anything else.

You know, you're, you're sitting in a lounge, you're, you're, you're out and you're smoking, um, you know, you're smoking a Cohiba. It's like, you know, you're driving a Ferrari of cigars and, um, It's like the super car of cigars and that's all good. I mean, there's a place in the market for that and, and I'm cool with it.

I mean, I think if that's what people want to [00:21:00] spend their money on, like, I'm not going to criticize somebody for that. It's just comes down to a personal choice right now. This, my commentary is, is this cigar is very, very enjoyable. It's smooth. It's rich. It's got some body. The finish is, it's not particularly long, but it's like, but it's.

It's long enough. Yeah. It's, it's definitely medium bodied at this

**Bam Bam:** point. The aroma on the burn line is cocoa all the way for me. Yeah, it's

**Gizmo:** amazing. It's really amazing. And I think there's a nuttiness about the smoke that I think is unique. As far as Cuban pyramids go, I think maybe BBF is the closest that gets a little nutty.

There's a smooth, mild nuttiness to this that is just so nice on the palate. That's awesome. And that, you know, to your point about the burn line, it's so complimentary, like everything just kind of, it's kind of playing together, you know, it's kind of

**Poobah:** sweet. And the, the other thing that's notable, I think [00:22:00] that's, or that's differentiating a little bit about from some of the other cohibas that I've had is that this doesn't have that, at least it hasn't presented itself yet.

That grassy note. Yeah. Oh, not at

**Gizmo:** all. Yep. I

**Senator:** agree. So I, I've just got to say Poobah's commentary right now for me is spot on, like everything I'm thinking he's saying in the sense that when you said this doesn't have a long finish, but it's just enough. I think that's, what's actually kind of fascinating to me about this cigar.

It's not. It's barely firmly medium, like barely. And what it's such a credit to it is like the flavor notes are so defined, like they're very clear. We can pick out each and every one of them and it delivers just enough that it, it, it feels complex and it's really satisfying. And I feel like we don't say that about many cigars that are this kind of mild or light in body.

Like it still holds, which is a credit to it. And Poobah's point about that kind of grassy note that you get in a lot of some [00:23:00] other vitals of Cohiba. That is not a note that I pursue for me. It brings like almost a bitterness to you. Don't like hay and grass. I really don't. I mean, no, but I say that because some people that actually really pursue they love that.

They really like it. And not tonight though, for me, you're not getting it. It brings a bitterness into the cigar. And the fact that like, I think why, who knows, maybe poop and I are probably going to be lockstep on our rating on this, but there are like. Upman dessert like notes about this cigar. That is why I'm enjoying it.

And I suspect you

**Bam Bam:** are too. So honestly, grinder, if you're a retro hell guy, so this, the most enjoyable part of this is the retro hell. It's amazing. Those Upman dessert notes, you get tremendous on the, on the retro. It's so light

**Grinder:** to the retrohale,

**Bam Bam:** but it's so enjoyable. So light, very sweet. And there's

**Poobah:** just a very, there's like a hint with the faintest hint of dried fruit through the nose.

It's like so faint and it's a little bit of cocoa. That's exactly right. And a [00:24:00] little bit of like dried fruit, but like nothing's overwhelming each other. It's, I would argue that it's balanced. Yeah. There's a lot of balance in the cigar for me right now. And, and to me, Um, that the equilibrium that it presents in the experience in terms of I'm going to relax.

I'm going to have this cognac, which we should talk about because I think it actually pairs. Again, this is another very serendipitous pairing, I think, because, uh, it's very complimentary.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. So let's talk about the cognac. It's actually a good time to do that because I haven't taken a sip yet. Cognac.

And I have to say. The one thing I want to point to before we jump to the Cognac is you said about the H up and number two and that cigar. For how brilliant of a cigar it is, the one we did on the podcast, we can go through the ratings, I got all the ratings of the Pyramids we've done, that specific cigar needs a ton of age.

I think smoking a less than a year old H. Uppman No. 2 or a Partagas Series P No. [00:25:00] 2, It's not going to, it's not going to work. And what I love about this, you're doing a disservice to that cigar. Exactly. If you're smoking in less than 12 months. And what I like about this, and I think is a really good lesson for us and for the listeners is picking up a cigar that's as expensive as this is and looking to this for a holiday cigar, an event, a birthday, an anniversary, a child's birth, whatever it may be, the fact that you can buy this today and it's smoking as good as it is young is really a merit.

To the cigar where I think that a lot of the pyramids need more time it is.

**Poobah:** Yeah, it's a that's a fair point And I and and you could experience You could experience a maturation stage where actually this goes into decline. It gets worse for for a couple of years and then and then actually picks up so Um, we could be previewing this just at the right time where Um, it could go into a maturation stage where maybe it presents its youth a year [00:26:00] from now even more where there's like a dip and then an acceleration in the aging process, which is a

**Gizmo:** normal thing.

Yeah, Min Ranee talks about that quite a bit in the Encyclopedia of Post Revolution

**Poobah:** Havana. Yeah, like you could pick this up in two years and be like, I can't believe this isn't as good as it was when I first smoked it. Yeah, it could go flat over time. Well. It kind of goes in waves, actually. It's not almost flat there.

It could present notes that just aren't as pleasurable and present its youth actually in a more pronounced way where, where once it goes through this maturation process and you pick it up in five years or, or at the six or at the seven or the eight or the 10 year stage, but it could be, it could be a completely different cigar.

So I think like when you talk about the H up in like the love for teens, those. I mean, that is arguably, I mean, to me, for me, it's arguably a bit, it's, it's a better cigar than this. There's no question about that. Because there's, you can taste, taste the agent of [00:27:00] tobacco. You can, there's so much richness and complexity that's going on there.

It's just more complex. It doesn't take away from how this is previewing right now and how pleasurable this

**Gizmo:** thing is. It, that's the thing I think that's really important about it is how smooth this is young. Yeah, it's tremendous. For Cohiba tobacco to be this smooth young is really surprising to me. I didn't know.

**Grinder:** I didn't know there was this like bulking and cutting phase of cigar

**Gizmo:** aging. Yeah, there's several stages of maturation and we can go through it in a future episode. I'll do some briefing on it and we can go through it. But there are periods where, you know, it, it does well young and then it falls off for a year or two.

And for every cigar, every blend, every, you know, every type of tobacco, it's all very different. So again, I think to Poova's point, I think we're, we're hitting this at its first

**Bam Bam:** stride. Yeah. If I may, I feel. This is not for everyone though, this cigar, putting price aside though, a guy that likes a fuller bodied [00:28:00] cigar.

I don't think that guy or gal is going to capture the subtleness of the cigar. It takes a little bit of experience to go to get to take this cigar and capture those notes. It's not for everybody. It's

**Grinder:** amazing how like people start cigars. When they start smoking cigars, they'll go to the mild cigars, right?

They could just go to the Connecticut shade or whatever, and then they'll start to get into heavier stuff. But I find that, I think you guys know this as well, like. A lot of the best cigars that, with a more refined palate, are most appreciated in the younger, in the uh, more

**Bam Bam:** mild cigar palate, you know?

Exactly right. It's subtle, subtle elegance is not captured by most people. Yeah. Because they take it for granted that it's a light cigar and they'll go through it really quick and move on to the next cigar.

**Poobah:** Yeah, I think

**Rooster:** we all

**Poobah:** kind of went

**Gizmo:** through that phase. Yeah, early on. We all kind of started like smoking.

**Rooster:** You know, milder cigars. Um, and then we,

**Gizmo:** Not Senator. Senator's head is rolling.

**Senator:** No, no, I mean, I told you my first cigar I [00:29:00] would smoke all the time was the um, the Punch Nicaraguan. The Aroma de Cuba. That's

**Gizmo:** a

**Bam Bam:** full cigar. Oh, no doubt

**Gizmo:** about it.

**Rooster:** That

**Gizmo:** La

**Bam Bam:** Aroma de Cuba is actually a very good cigar. Yes, we reviewed it.

I like

**Gizmo:** that cigar. We reviewed it. I think the journey of all of our palates, um, and I think actually Pagoda has most recently been talking about his palate, and it's changing even, you know, in recent episodes. I think we've heard the most from Pagoda on that. I think we've all gone through that, and I'm certainly experiencing that now.

Um, with Cohiba and with some of the other Cuban cigars that I'm reaching for over what I was reaching for a few years ago. Um, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a constant changing of the palate and I think it makes the journey very important, it's a

**Bam Bam:** very important point. There was a point where I was smoking, like Padron's is an example, the Family Reserve exclusively.

Now, I used to give you shit about that. You did. And honestly, I had an Exclusivo and I went down the journey of the 64 line and, you know, I haven't gone back. [00:30:00] Yeah. You, there's a threshold moment that you reach and you find that you get an experience of a, if you want to call it a milder cigar, a smaller bodied cigar, if you want to call it that.

And you get the experience of a more elegant and sophisticated smoke. It's in a, it's a revelation. So then you go down that path and I've stayed in that path.

**Poobah:** Yeah. Honestly. To your point. I think just to build on that, let's talk about. Uh, QD for a minute and, and Grindr was a big advocate of QD, big advocate of QD, early adopter of QD within this group.

And you know, I'm not going to say that there, there were a couple of jobs, QD, QD, QD, until early on there was early on until Well, we started to try these cigars and then we realized, you know what? There's a shitload of merit to the Vitolas within the QD line shitload. I won't go through them. We know what they are.

You brought those to the group. [00:31:00] Um, and that's what this is kind of all about. And now, you know, before I came in to the pod, I had a Corona's Claros. It's one of the best, that that's one of the best. Cigars going. It's the

**Gizmo:** best cutie. It's awesome.

**Poobah:** That's a great cigar. Don't

**Bam Bam:** forget the cutie fifties.


**Gizmo:** But after the Corona was collateralized. Yeah. So I want to quickly just because we pointed to, and then I want to get to this cognac, but I wanted to point to Pagoda because we were talking about the palette and the palette changing that you've talked about quite a few episodes, recent episodes, you've talked a lot about it.

So having this specific Cohiba Pyramides extra in your hand with what we've just talked about palette wise in mind and what your journey has been. What are your thoughts on the cigar and how do you, you know, how do you relate to what we're saying about the palette change? You know, you

**Pagoda:** guys, uh, actually nailed it.

I, I think, uh, I was reaching out, I was reaching to Patrons a lot, I think, uh, midway, uh, during my smoking, uh, [00:32:00] experience. Um, I have started smoking a lot of, uh, You know, medium bodied cigars. I think the experience for this particular cigar has been a little bit on the milder side. Uh, but having said that, it's been very, very pleasant.

And I know you and, uh, Pope, uh, Senator and Pope have kind of mentioned that they're getting somewhat of a medium finish, you know, short to a medium finish. On the other hand, I think for me, I'm getting slightly longer finish, I think. It's enveloping my mouth with a very pleasant, uh, um, you know, uh, flavor profile,

**Bam Bam:** which I'm right there with him.

I agree with him. I'm

**Gizmo:** with him. I don't think it's a short finish. No, no. So

**Pagoda:** for me, it's been, yeah. And, uh, you know, it started off, I think, uh, because you mentioned that you'd got a little bit of the salty and I was thinking about it in the beginning, just in the very beginning,

**Gizmo:** just on that first quarter of an inch.


**Pagoda:** You know, I've experienced a bit of the salty, uh, you know, um, taste. What I find very interesting is that I always, I've been trying to understand the salty taste and [00:33:00] different, even when we do certain Nicaraguans, we'll get a bit of the salty taste. With those, I feel they're somewhat, uh, more on the earthy, earthier side with a little bit of salty.

It's a slightly different salty taste I get, but this, it feels slightly on the lighter floral side, which is very pleasant. And I think, uh, As soon as you, you know, get hold of the cigar, you know, it's a Cuban for sure. Um, yeah, it's like, if you, even if this were unbanned that you would know that you're smoking an excellent Cuban, um, going through it, I felt a lot, a lot more of the nuttiness and the creaminess, which is somewhat, uh, has been prevalent throughout for me and, uh, I've really been enjoying it.

Um. If you were to offer the cigar to me about just over a year, a year and a half ago, I think, uh, I would have done, uh, you know, what, uh, Rooster did, uh, with, uh, with the ALR, I might, you know, because at that point in time I was smoking such strong cigars that I wouldn't have appreciated it. Uh, the flavor [00:34:00] profile of the cigar, you know, all, you know,

**Bam Bam:** all good points.

**Senator:** I'll just say on the flavor notes that Pagoda was describing. So, um, number one on the finish, I think the first half inch of this I would describe as a short finish. I think as the cigar has heated up and as I've gotten a bit further along, I do agree that now the finish is definitely lengthened. And I think even like the flavor notes are.

Have picked up their, their, their more pronounced than they started, which is great. The other thing that you mentioned, uh, the saltiness that you get in the cigar. I actually think for me, it's picked up as I've smoked this. We're like, the finish is very salty. I agree. Like twangy. I'm

**Bam Bam:** still getting that.

Yeah. For me, it's continuing and it's so, so freaking good.

**Poobah:** It is. This isn't a criticism. It's somewhat one dimensional so far it's picking up, but like, I, I like what it's delivering. Um, very, very much. It's kind of like, uh, I've talked about this [00:35:00] before where it's like, um, when you smoke a cigar and it's this kind of approachable and.

So very Cuban for me personally, it's, there's this relaxing feeling that comes over me. I'm having no construction issues. It doesn't have to be touched up. You're not fighting. I get real. I'm not fighting anything. There's no draw issue. There's no, so like, I'm not worried about touching up. I'm not worried about the combustion.

The combustion is really good. The draw is really good. The build is really nice. And so that leaves you all this open space to kind of just focus on, you know, on the delivery and, and for me, what this is delivering is a very kind of mild to medium experience, but delivers a [00:36:00] body. And some complexity that, that really has a lot of merit that I think we'll just get exponentially better with time.

Um, and, and when you throw age, like that age tobacco component in this, where over time it's going to get richer. Um, it's a knock, it could, you know, it previews like an, like, like a knockout, like, like a Cohiba should preview.

**Gizmo:** What I, what I like about the preview here, which again, we've kind of touched on a little bit is other Cohibas preview, you know, you smoke a young Cohiba, you're getting a lot of that grassy kind of youth to it.

Not all of them, but yeah. And it doesn't, it doesn't smoke the way that this does with under a year of age on it. And like you said, then it goes through that journey of maturation and you hit it after a few years and five years, 10 years after you have it in your humidor and it, it becomes even more magical.

But. I think something that we have in our hand right now, that's this young to have this experience is special is, is pretty great. Yeah. I just

**Pagoda:** want to mention one more thing. [00:37:00] It's, um, a lot of my friends smoke a lot of new worlds and, uh, you know, they tend to lean towards a stronger, you know, a more bolder cigars, uh, just, and for anyone who's trying this.

I think if you were to listen to my journey, even in the year and a half, if you were to listen to some of the pods in the beginning, I should smoke more in that flavor profile. Um, the one thing I do have to mention is that when you're going through the cigar journey, you've got to be open to trying a lot of different cigars and different flavor profiles as well because you'll be surprised to find that your, Um, the flavor profile can change, evolve as a lot of the listeners would say over here.

Yeah. Uh, but, um, there's this possibility of you being able to really enjoy a lot of different types of cigars, uh, with, uh, completely different flavor profiles.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah, and what we said earlier is true. There's a threshold moment for every cigar smoker and when they experience that cigar, that has that lighter body, but more elegant, sophisticated profile.

It [00:38:00] changes your, it changes your trajectory. When you're

**Rooster:** a new cigar smoker and you smoke a lot of the new world cigars, the flavors are more profound.

**Gizmo:** So they're easier to capture. Easier to capture. Right.

**Rooster:** So when you smoke Cuban cigars, it's, it's a little bit of a different refined palette that you need.

And the flavors are subtle. They're not as pronounced on most of them. Yeah. So as your palette kind of changes, you will. You know, you will, you will get those, you'll, you'll get the Cuban tobacco

**Gizmo:** flavors more. Abuelo, well

**Bam Bam:** said. I mean, that's wisdom right there. He's right. That's

**Poobah:** wisdom. It's a very relaxing cigar to me.

It's awesome. It's a very easy, kind of easygoing affair.

**Bam Bam:** The caramel I'm getting and vanilla on this spirit, pairing beautifully with the cigar. So

**Gizmo:** speaking of elegance and sophistication. Yes, sir. We have a fantastic cognac with us tonight. It's the Camu. Camu. Camu.

**Senator:** Dammit. Well, Not the Camu. [00:39:00] Dude, I even, Camu, Camu.

**Gizmo:** I even, I even watched a YouTube video to not have this. I'm gonna need a refill on this

**Bam Bam:** Camus, please.

**Poobah:** Hahaha. Sponsored, sponsored by SeaWorld. Hahaha. It's Shamu's cousin Camu. Hahaha.

**Gizmo:** So we have the, What is it again? Camu Exo. Camu Exo Cognac.

**Poobah:** Cognac. Cognac. And she will be on exhibition in Orlando.

**Gizmo:** So Senator, what's the story on this?

Where did we get this? I've never even heard of this brand before. So

**Senator:** I've, I've heard of it and I've definitely seen it before. You can find it at most liquor stores, but, um, I had never tried any of their expressions before this and was excited when, uh, I had an opportunity. Someone was, uh, selling a bunch of stuff that.

They had procured over a year's time and they are not a drinker and so, uh, when I saw the Camu XO, I said, all right, this is perfect for us to try on the pod. The Camu itself, the distillery, they've got a very, [00:40:00] very long history. They started in 1863. Um, they're known for their use of grapes from the Borderies region, which is one of the smallest and most prestigious regions within the Cognac region.

So, Um, what's really cool about this XO, it's a single estate Cognac, which means that all of the grapes that were used to make this Cognac are from the family's personal lot in the Borderies region, um, to make this. So it's like a single estate vineyard, uh, uh, wine essentially, right? Which you pay a lot more money for.

All those grapes are just from that one plot, not from a bunch of different places that they purchase or procure and then blend together. So it's like an estate grown wine. It is. It is. It is, which for Cognac is cool because all these Cognac cows, I mean, they're all blends from different

**Gizmo:** parts of the Cognac.

So none of the other XO's that we've had to, to your knowledge or to my knowledge, the

**Senator:** ones with the big houses, they're not, I mean, Camu is a big house too, but to my knowledge, the other ones we've had, I don't believe that [00:41:00] they, maybe there's one exception to it, but most of them are not from one single.


**Poobah:** So questions. So like would Remy XO is that that's not like an estate. I don't

**Senator:** believe, which again, it's not a knock on the quality of any of these things. I mean, as much as we've all pay a premium for any, you know, kind of single estate, wine, cognac, you name it, champagne. Um, that doesn't always mean that it's better quality.

It just means if that particular plot is really spectacular, then that's what you want in that bottle. And it's going to be, you know, outstanding.

**Poobah:** It's like unique unto itself. It is. And very, and, and we'll, and I guess would vary from, I would imagine it would vary from release to release.

**Senator:** It would, a little bit.

I mean, the thing with spirits, it's easier for them, unlike wine, to be able to,

**Poobah:** um, Create more consistency. Correct. Correct. Correct. Where with wine, uh, the vintage and the season and the weather really affects the grapes to a point [00:42:00] where it can't be manipulated. It can only be manipulated, I guess, so

**Senator:** much.

Correct. And the reason for that. So like with wine, you know, there's a, there's a year on every bottle. And so the grapes in that bottle are from that year in Cognac or any spirit, you know, McCallan 12, any scotch that we drink regularly. In, in this, for instance, the XO, this means that everything in here is minimum 10 years of age.

And so some of what's in here, maybe 15, some even 20. And so they'll play with that balance to make sure that they can create that consistency. But in wine, you can't do that. You can't take grapes from 2016 and put it in a 2018 bottle. Or it becomes a

**Gizmo:** Maritage.

**Senator:** The Maritage is the blend of the types of grapes, but not the years.

So different. Ah. See

**Gizmo:** what I'm saying? But it could be

**Senator:** both couldn't it though? No. So the Meritage will have a year on it, which means that every grape in that bottle is from that year. Oh, I see. But there are a blend of different grapes. That's what

**Gizmo:** makes it meritage. So I have a question about the flavor profile of this.

'cause I'm getting something and I want to use a word that I'm not educated on, but I feel like it might be [00:43:00] accurate. It, it, it has a, it a, it's like very port forward. Like it has like a, like a very port wine. At the front to me that's grapey. It's very grapey. That's kind of accurate. It's got a port thing to it that the other XO's we've done.

It's different. Doesn't have. And I, I don't know if I like it as much as the others. It's a little

**Bam Bam:** different. You know, I kind of early on I said it was alcohol forward. That's probably what I was experiencing. Not that I don't like this because I happen to love this. But it is different than the other cognacs that we've had.

**Senator:** It's an interesting observation. I'll just say the nose. I think you're actually 100 percent right and I, I hadn't port didn't pop into my head, but as you said it, the nose is exactly that, but the nose is very important. Like vanilla and caramel. When you taste it, I don't know that I taste port as much, but yeah,

**Grinder:** so I.

I'm happy you said that because I don't like port and I don't like port forward anything. All right, this

**Bam Bam:** is awful. And there was a taste. [00:44:00]

**Gizmo:** Yeah, they want mine? Yeah.

**Grinder:** Let me get there. Yeah. There was a taste and I'm like, oh, this is unique and different. When I first tasted, I remember looking at you as I was sipping it for the first time and being like, damn, this is good.

It's surprising that that, because I'm recollecting the port. I'm tasting this and it's not exactly port, but it's, it's good. The grind. Delicious. It's grinder's on and, no, no, I, I mean, I like, I like it. I'm telling you, man. But I don't like pour.

**Bam Bam:** I, you know, gizmo sophistication is coming through tonight.

Come on boys.

**Gizmo:** It's number fine. Is crazy.

**Poobah:** I mean, I think it, it's delicious. I think it is delicious and I think it's good. It's good the, the whole cognac. Journey that we've had on this podcast has been phenomenal. It's like, yeah, it's on me constantly. I just stocked my locker with more, uh, 1738. I, I, you know, it's in the Hein, it's in my house.

I'm having around and, um, we're just

**Senator:** having

**Gizmo:** Corbusier before we have the VSO. We were

**Bam Bam:** honestly. That's sweeter than this. It is. There's a sweetness to that Kovacia XO

**Senator:** that we don't get here. [00:45:00] Which honestly is because, look, we have to understand with Cognac, this is why there is some criticism sometimes of Cognac.

The lower age statement expressions, VS especially, and VSOP even. There is more residual sugar that they add to balance it out so that it can drink smoother and it's not as aggressive because it doesn't have the age that the XO does. Yeah. Which it comes at a much higher price point. Mm-Hmm. where they don't need to do that.

It is naturally much smoother

**Bam Bam:** and this is much more sophisticated and a, that there's a dryness to this that you won't get in that. That's

**Poobah:** exactly right. Right. There's a, yes, there is a dry finish. It's awesome on this cognac. That when you look at the, when you do, when, if you drink a Remy VSOP, a hundred percent correct.

There's a, there's a, there's a, which creates balance. And I think in, in any great spirit or even in a cigar, um, you're looking for that balance, that equilibrium, that you're kind of, that's [00:46:00] that even if you're not cognizant of it. Um, it's there and you're appreciating it. I mean, this is a very, very balanced spirit and I think it really pairs well with this very bit.

This is a very balanced cigar, um, as well. So I, I think the pairing is quite nice. I think

**Gizmo:** what you said about the finish actually makes that thing that grinder said that port forward that I kind of expressed as. Not enjoying. I think the drier finish or whatever's happening in the finish, making the port kind of get out of the way that I'm tasting is actually making it more enjoyable than if I was sipping some

**Bam Bam:** sort of Honestly, after the three or four sips that dissipates for me very quickly.

And all I'm getting is on the nose. I get caramel and vanilla on the nose and a dry finish. And it's just, it's great.

**Poobah:** Is that it, dude, it's delightful. How great is that? It's delightful. I mean, for me, this is one of the better cognacs I've [00:47:00] had. Um, you know, it's fantastic retiring after a dinner. This is so approachable and so not overwhelming where you're like, you're drinking something that's maybe a cognac that's too sweet or like the senator's point that has added sugar or something like that.

It's, it's dry enough. I could, I mean, not to sound like a tool, but like if I was just to have a little. Like a, like a, like a lint chocolate truffle and drink this thing at Christmas after dinner and just have a little piece of chocolate and you've

**Gizmo:** given me a lot of shit about eating chocolate on this.

Well, that's, that's said after dinner. Let me just point that out. Exclusively pair chocolates. You've done about six hours of material. I haven't, but,

**Poobah:** but, but we're, we're not talking about. He's talking about lint. Okay. We're not talking about coming to the ticket. We're not talking [00:48:00] about coming to the lounge with, with Bouchard and rappers in the bag and eating nine, nine chocolates while you smoke.

Um, that's lunacy. It's

**Gizmo:** a new year, but we don't have to litigate this again. I'm off to Bouchard. Right. I understand. The wife's actually sent me a picture the other day. She was at Costco, saw the Bouchard. I said, do not buy it. I swear. I

**Poobah:** know, but like a piece of this. My point is the, this with the. a piece of chocolate sitting in your lounge chair at Christmas.

How nice is that?

**Gizmo:** Retire, retiring, retiring, retiring is the right word. I feel like, you know, I was kind of going to say it earlier, but I think now with the cognac pairing with the cigar, for me, it's like, this is like the winter time you're sitting in front of a fire. Like, like, it's, the cigar cognac pairing is like a warm blanket right now, it's just, it's just so perfect.


**Bam Bam:** ironic, it's ironic, what he's saying is, there's some irony there, because the cigar itself is a lighter bodied cigar. You don't tend to associate that with a winter [00:49:00] smoke, but paired with this spirit It's a great analogy. That warming, delicious blanket. It's so freaking accurate. This is

**Poobah:** a very approachable.

It's like, but this, but the spirit is so smooth. It's so comforting. The cigar is very smooth and it's medium and it's just, it's very comforting. Dare

**Bam Bam:** I ask, I have a question. I haven't seen this in any liquor store. Do we know how much that bottle

**Senator:** is Senator? So every xo uh, kind ranges from 200 to Oh Jesus,

**Gizmo:** two,

**Bam Bam:** uh oh, 60, uh oh.


**Gizmo:** this bottle.

**Poobah:** But the cigars $25. Correct. I, I

**Senator:** mean, mean, you know, you get one smoke outta this. How many, I mean, we've had seven pores almost, or six pours of this, and we still have left in the bottle. For how much is that bottle for that price? Two 50. It's, uh, two 40. Two 50 you'll find at most places.

**Gizmo:** So, pagoda, what do you think of the cognac, cognac?[00:50:00]

**Pagoda:** I'm actually enjoying it. Um, you know what I was doing actually throughout while I was smoking the cigar was just smelling, like taking a little sniff. The nose. Yeah, it was so good. I think I didn't even need to have a sip and you already can, you know, you kind of get a precursor in terms of what you're going to be.

The approach was great. Yeah,

**Bam Bam:** that's a great point because a lot of what we drink, we don't tend to Bring to the nose and take the time with it. This is worthy of that, of taking your time.

**Gizmo:** Can I say one thing too about the, the cognac that I think makes the cigar work? Is I think that it's, it's not terribly viscous.

Like it's not a thick spirit for me. And I think with the mild medium cigar that we have in our hand, I think it's actually the right pairing. I think anything more viscous might be a little overpowering for the

**Senator:** cigar. Agreed. I agree with that. I, I think the reason I was very excited about this cognac, this cigar, We've all said, it's not full, it's barely medium, it's like mild slash medium, right?

And [00:51:00] this cognac, in flavor, is actually pretty powerful and pronounced. However, it's delivered in such a silky, elegant, refined way. And I think this cigar, I would describe elegant refined. So like the two really kind of play nicely together for that reason, where I think to Gizmo's point, if this was more viscous, if this cognac had more body than it does and more bite and wasn't as approachable at poop, as poop has been saying, it would overpower the cigar.

And I think it's a credit to Camu and really. I mean, most of these XO cognacs that we've had, they're so refined and smooth and just approachable that I think like the versatility is incredible. Like you can smoke them. You can drink them with a Cuban. You can drink them with a new world and be just as satisfied.

And with this cognac, I would just say. I think some of the flavor notes are very obvious, but there is complexity to this in the same way that we were picking out these random little faint notes that we were [00:52:00] getting in the cigar. Like I had, I I'm getting it and I, it's validated somewhere like on the nose and even sometimes just very faintly in, in the finish, we were talking about chocolate.

Like there's this little slight like chocolate note that you'll get out of this cognac married with the dry, the fruit and all the other flavors that we've been talking about. So I just love the complexity with a cigar that I, I think despite not being all that full or even all that medium, it's complex.

It's a very

**Bam Bam:** sophisticated

**Grinder:** cigar. Yeah. Has it, has it shifted on anybody? Cause it, it, there, there was a bit of a shift for me. In the cigar?

**Gizmo:** Yeah. So, I mean, we're, what, right around the halfway point. I've found as it's heated up, as, as Senator said, I feel like what we're, what we've talked about earlier, it's just kind of been enhanced and it's been increasing.

I'm not getting any harshness. It's um No, no, yeah. But it has changed a little. Change, change is the right word. There's been a little bit of a shift and I would argue it's just an increase in [00:53:00] body. I don't know. Poobah. That's the

**Bam Bam:** word for me. Poobah. The boob, the body's gone up but it's still incredibly

**Poobah:** good.

Very smooth. Yeah. Come on. So I, what I will say, no, agreed. I, what. I keep, I'm retro hailing the cigar on almost every draw and what I'm getting is, and why I said this, as I stated before, it's kind of a serendipitous pairing because you get, I'm just getting this overwhelming through the nose. There's like a fruit forward on the cigar, which you don't get.

Without the retro hell. So out the nose, the fact that we're this deep in on this big of a ring gauge cigar, and then I can still retro hell. This is, is a merit, huge, is a huge merit. And, uh, and that kind of paired with the, what I'm getting is a little, a hint of orange. Um, in the, in the cognac, it's just, [00:54:00] it's not that pronounced, but it's there.

It's a citrus orangey hint, uh, with that kind of little bit of cocoa that compliments the cigar. It's really kind of, it's, it's, it's, it's, I will say that the parent, the pairing, um, have you not had this before? I think it really works together very, very well. And if we weren't on a podcast, uh, right now, like, well, you know, uh, just ruminating on this, I would be sitting back relaxed and almost not even talking in a fucking, in a fucking trance.


**Gizmo:** you saying that the podcast is ruining your experience right now? No, no, no, no. No, no, no.

**Poobah:** You'd be in a cigar coma right now. No, I, I, I, I, I'd be Pleasure coma. Yeah. No, I'd be, I'd be just relaxed with my, kind of like with my head back. Just Zen. And I think that that that's where you want to be. I agree

**Gizmo:** with you.

I think this is, [00:55:00] this is, and again, I, I can't get past and I hope that, you know, everybody in the room is agreeing, I think with this, this comment, but I can't get past how young this cigar is for exactly what Poobah just said. And what we've been saying so far tonight, a little over halfway through, I can't get past how young this cigar is.

It's unbelievable. It's crazy. Make

**Senator:** an observation. I just want to say. I am so impressed with this group. And I say this because I very recently, and we've all heard people say this, right? You meet people in a cigar lounge, anyone you're around cigars, especially folks who have not been smoking cigars as much or as long as we have.

And they'll say things like, I just can't, I can't get the notes that you get out of out of cigars. You hear that all the time. That's true. And. All of us in this room, myself included, our palates have only gotten sharper over time. And it's not a factor of we're practicing anything, or we've picked up some skill.

It's just, the more you smoke and enjoy these [00:56:00] cigars, the more you become able to distinguish what you're getting out of one versus another. And I just say this because even cognac, something that None of us in this room were consuming before this podcast. I mean, I'm listening to notes that are being called out that are just spot on.

I mean, Poobah's sitting here saying, there's this faint note of orange and citrus. That's, they tell you faint notes of orange and citrus. Like everything that you guys are picking up is exactly what's reflected in that spirit. And I think the same thing about our conversation with the cigar. And I say this because I guarantee there are many listeners out there that maybe haven't been smoking as long or haven't dived into the Cuban world as much as we have and are looking to do so and struggle to pick out those notes.

And it really is just reps. The more you try these. Things that's the word you're going to be able to literally was going to

**Grinder:** say, it's all about reps when you started that monologue. I was like, I was just gonna say, I would just say it's all about reps at the end of this. Then you, you [00:57:00] plugged it for me.

Yeah. You know,

**Bam Bam:** and when someone says that you just, your response is just smoke more cigars early and often,

**Gizmo:** but I think too, there's, there's, there's, it's not an analytical element element to what we're doing. It's the. communal element to what we're doing, this conversation, this throwing the basketball to, you know, each of the guys in the room or each of the guys that you smoke with when you smoke cigars, it's this sharing of experience that it's like everything kind of peaks this other level of, of what's happening.


**Senator:** it's even easier. It's even easier than working. out right with cigars. You just need like three sets of two reps.

**Bam Bam:** We've

**Gizmo:** just destroyed the entire fitness industry.

**Bam Bam:** I have to say something before he says anything. So what Poobah said a moment ago, what he described earlier is the ultimate goal for every cigar guy and gal.

You want to get to the point where you're just. laid back [00:58:00] and you're, you're the combination of what you're drinking and smoking takes you to another place. That's the ultimate, that's the ultimate goal for all of us. What Senator said, the reps get you there. So that, that's really important to just

**Poobah:** hone in on that.

Yeah. And they get you there and get yourself there regardless of what. Anybody else says, regardless of what we say and what you're smoking, what you're smoking, in other words, smoke what you like. And, and like, if you like it and, and, and, and if you like that spirit, if you like that cigar, do it. And, and, and, and, and, and that's what matters.

It doesn't matter what everybody else likes. It doesn't matter what we like. Um, and I feel like just to build on that, like if we were. If we were out of this podcast and in the main lounge, this whole thing, this pairing. The conversation would be completely, we wouldn't, I mean, we would be talking like this, [00:59:00] like this is good.

And we'd, we'd have some commentary, but the whole thing would be tamped down. This is such a relaxing experience. Such a good point. Like, like the whole thing would be like,

**Gizmo:** Oh my God, it would be a lot of holy shit, dude. Like the other thing. Wow.

**Poobah:** Like I had a hard day. This is great. Yeah. Like, you know, you just be kind of like.

**Senator:** The, the other thing on that, that's really important again, going back to like, it, it honestly like pains me when I hear guys say, or girls that they, they want to get the notes and they can't, and like, they feel defeated. You want them to appreciate it the same way that you do. And the other thing that's key to that, this kind of goes to when Poobah is saying, imagine we were all having this experience out in the main lounge when you're sitting out.

In like a big group setting and everybody's smoking and you're talking and drinking. That's not really when you're going to pick out all the notes you're getting in the cigar. Absolutely, right? You are far more distracted by the conversation that's happening or the game on the tv or the game on the tv Than what's in the cigar and [01:00:00] I think the times that we're able that we are Most focused on what we're getting out of the cigar and what we're pairing with it in terms of the spirit It's when we're sitting In a room like this, a smaller group, and the focus is what we're smoking and enjoying together.

And we're all

**Gizmo:** smoking the same thing. Correct. If you're sitting alone.

**Senator:** Right, yes. In your own home, your garage, outside, in a lounge, whatever the case may be. That's the time that it's easiest for you to really focus on what you're experiencing. And that's where you start to build and train your palate to pick up those notes.

Yeah. And once that starts happening, that's when. You know, even when you're sitting in a group, but again, a group that's all enjoying cigars, not watching a football game where everybody's obviously the attentions on an entirely different topic, that's not when you're going to do that. So I also just think for anyone who's really trying to challenge themselves to be able to pick those out, you got to pick those moments to do it.

Also a

**Rooster:** good idea to [01:01:00] take notes when you smoke cigars, like keep a, keep a journal or a, or a

**Gizmo:** cigar dossier. That's a great point. And write down like what kind of notes you're getting.

**Rooster:** The other

**Pagoda:** thing is, like if you're listening to the pod, so I think a lot of my friends feel that they're not able to identify the flavors.

So they're getting certain flavors, but they're not able to identify and exactly pinpoint as to what they really are. But if you're listening to the pod while smoking the cigar on, you know, hopefully if you're just smoking alone and then Think about what you're getting and think about what everybody, all the lizards are getting.

And then you'll begin to start identifying these flavors. And then you'll see that over a period of time you're able to, you know, identify the same flavors in different cigars that you're smoking over

**Gizmo:** a period of time. That's a good point. And the one thing I want to say too now, we're smoking a really expensive cigar tonight, right?

But I think the most, a very important thing that we need to share with our listeners is that price is not a factor in your ability to do what we're doing tonight. [01:02:00] Obviously we're sitting here enjoying. A really premium Cohiba cigar from Cuba. We're very lucky. You don't need to spend 120 on a cigar. You don't need a Cohiba and you don't need a Cuban

**Senator:** cigar to do this.

You can spend 5. 50 on an Oliva V Lancero. Or a Padron

**Bam Bam:** 2000. Or a Padron 2000. Or El

**Senator:** Senador. Yep. Correct. And get a fantastic experience. Yeah. And pick out distinct notes you're getting.

**Gizmo:** Exactly right. Price is not a factor. Dude, I

**Bam Bam:** can tell my therapist, she's off for the month.

**Gizmo:** Save some money and buy a box.

**Poobah:** No doubt about it. Well, you know, it's almost like it's, it's, it's, I don't meditate or any of that or any of that stuff, but, um, certainly smoking cigars,

**Senator:** this is how lizards meditate. Yeah,

**Gizmo:** this is how I think about what is hating right now. Think about what you're

**Grinder:** doing when you're smoking a cigar. This is how you're breathing.

You're, you're appreciating breath in a way you're hopefully you're not inhaling the smoke, but you know, it's, there's, there is a physical, [01:03:00] yeah, rhythmic element to it that you have to appreciate. And also there's a, there's a rhythm of the conversation. Lest we not forget that socialization is a driving force of evolution.

Talking about the cigars with each other, that's what's driving the evolution of our palate because we're getting insights from other people and then we're making connections. And those are the connections in our In the synapses that make us, you know, get creative and, and recollect different flavors from our own life.

And that's what's driving this. Oh yeah. It's reps and it's doing it with, with intent to enjoy it. And when you do that, you find this special magic where you can soak into the, into the, into the chair and appreciate the moment because that's what it's all about. And

**Senator:** there's one other, we've been using a lot of R words.

We talked about reps. Uh, grinder was mentioning rhythm and the other R word. There's a ritual to this. And like, that's also, I feel like whether you meditate or you do yoga or all these things that people do to try to, there's a ritual involved in all of those things. And I [01:04:00] think cigars are very much like that, which is why it, it kind of really just helps ground us and, and clear your head.

And, um, just has so many benefits.

**Gizmo:** And I think the, a word that poop is used a lot is the word sit. Right? Like we sat down tonight knowing that when we lit this cigar, you know, forgetting the microphones, forgetting the recording and all that, this is going to be an hour and a half to two hours that we have committed to.

Enjoying this experience together and and thankfully we're enjoying it could have been a nightmare and could have blown up and the cigars could have smoked like shit Thankfully they didn't but could have smoked grass for we could have smoked grass for two hours Some people are into that. Yeah, they are Nothing wrong with it.

You know, it's it's a commitment to sitting down and doing nothing else and focusing on this I think it's really important. It's amazing.

**Rooster:** We're very lucky to be smoking a cigar You know, like a Cohiba Pyramid of this caliber of this caliber and pairing it with this very special [01:05:00] Cognac.

**Bam Bam:** So do we have another bottle?

Cause I need a refill.

**Poobah:** I mean, well, to your point, I mean, gratitude. Let's get on drizzly. Gratitude. Gratitude too. Is it, is it, is it. You know, it's something I've focused, I've been focusing on not to get too, you know, deep, but, but, you know, leading with gratitude in life, um, particularly, and I think this is a moment for that.

I mean, like, you know, we're, we're having a, you know, having a great cigar. I think, you know, I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for the opportunity to be able to, to share this with, with my closest friends. And again, it puts you in the moment. And, and, and, and being in the moment and being present for, uh, you know, and sharing it, you know, it's really positive.

And I think, and I think the cigar community, um, you know, presents a venue and an opportunity for folks to, um, to meet on the [01:06:00] level and to gather and to gather into, in, in the cigar to Senator, as Senator always say is the great equalizer because, um, because people have the kind of a similar agenda, you know, you go to a cigar lounge.

You know, we have a similar agenda, which is, which is really to, I, I need to be, I need to, I need to transition, or you need to, you need to break up the day with this and transition out of regular life into the moment. And, um, and these kind of, you know, particularly this kind of a cigar with this kind of a spirit with, with these type of friends, for me, personally, it's a great moment.

Um, I

**Senator:** mean, on, on your point about gratitude. Uh, it really struck me because I'm sitting here saying to myself, I'm grateful that we're doing this. And that gizmo, um, you know, had the idea to, to, to smoke these because I would never, I, again, I started by saying I'm the [01:07:00] biggest, I've been the biggest critic of Cohiba and I don't apologize for it, but that should have, I

**Gizmo:** think you should know.

No, I won't go that far.

**Bam Bam:** I I'm kind

**Gizmo:** of with my criticisms still

**Poobah:** stand. Stay in the moment. Let's

**Gizmo:** not

**Senator:** create controversy right now, but my criticism is tranquilo, tranquilo, tranquilo, but my point is because of my frustrations with the brand, I never, my wildest dreams would have picked this up. Even if someone said, here's this for 5, I would have no interest in this cigar because I would say to myself, young and Cohiba does not mix.

There's no way I'm going to have an enjoyable experience. And so I am grateful. Obviously, Gizmo loves Cohiba and has wanted us to do more of it on the pod. And I'm sitting here, we're in the final third of this cigar. It is just as enjoyable as the first two thirds. It's incredible. It's not showing youth.

It's not showing any of the flavor notes that I have disliked in a Cohiba I've had in the past. And I mean, I would absolutely smoke this again. It's, it's a fantastic [01:08:00] experience.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. It's truly showing itself as a sophisticated Cuban cigar. No doubt about it. And no Jutre. No,

**Gizmo:** none at all. That's what's weird

**Poobah:** because it's, yeah, it's weird because I think that my hypothesis is, is that if you picked it up in a, in a year from now, it'd be different.

It's going to bite a little bit.

**Gizmo:** I agree with you. I agree. I think that that's been my experience with these over the past, say, Eight weeks or so where I've kind of been trialing this cigar looking for flaws in it so that if I brought it, I wanted to bring something good into the podcast so that we could refer our listeners to spend some money on something that was going to work, that that wasn't going to take, you know, the first third is great.

The last two thirds, you know, completely, you know, show that youth or bite you or whatever word you want to use. The fact that this has performed as consistently as it has for me over the past two months is. It has been shocking and I'm not surprised in anything that we've said tonight because [01:09:00] it's really been one of the biggest revelations for me.

Yeah. You know, in the past two years.

**Senator:** Yeah. I also have to say, I'm sorry. What shocks me is frankly the, the lack of respect that this cigar gets. And I just said that when you think of the Cohiba brand, you don't think of the pyramids. You think of the Reo B ero. The ero. I don't sixt hear six of course.

Don't hear anybody talk about this cigar. And if any of those cigars we've just named that I've tried, this wipes the young, young wipes the floor with them. None of the other cigars we named, I would consider a great cigar young. They're not, this is the only cigar that young, I mean, this, this, this is up there with any cigar young that I enjoy on a regular basis that I'm happy to spend money on.

And it's shocking. It's

**Poobah:** shocking. And, and, but, but also, um, it's presenting itself, and I will say this when we get to the review, you do not taste that age. You do not get that kind of aged body, uh, that you'd get outta [01:10:00] something. Um, would you say

**Gizmo:** that's a demerit though? No's, exactly. It, no. Mm-Hmm. That's what's amazing about it.


**Poobah:** no. It's not a, it's not a demerit. It's not a demerit. Right. It's not a demit. But it's, but, but at the same time, it's not, it's not reached its full potential. And I blind, I would be confident in saying that this, I would, I, I, I would call it out as maybe something that doesn't have that kind of a note in it because it just does, it's just not, it's just.

Obviously not there it's, it's, it's conspicuously absent from the flavor. And a cigar, however, um, however, what, what it, what it's delivered considering the age on it has been exemplary. Yeah. Agreed.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's age age will only help. Of course,

**Senator:** that's what I'm saying, but that's, what's amazing about this car poop is saying how it's [01:11:00] going to get better with age, but the fact that it's smoking this well right now is absurd.

I mean, honestly, like I cannot even believe with

**Poobah:** this little, I'm in the last third of this and I'm not getting any ammonia. You're taking it down. You're taking that cigar down. Yeah. I'm like, and let's not, let's put aside the construction, the build, the burn, which were impeccable combustion. All of that, put that all aside because that's all been, that's all been exemplary and that's not going to change.

**Gizmo:** That's not going to change over time.

**Poobah:** So chalk that up, chalk that up, chalk construction build. Burn, flavor, all that stuff. So, you know, it's not there

**Gizmo:** yet. See the thing for me, if, if someone were to ask me, how, how would you find utility in this cigar versus its price point? And you're saying, okay, if we're going to [01:12:00] recommend the cigar, which I think generally we are right now, obviously we're getting to the rating, whatever.

If you're going to buy a box of 10 of these or, or, uh, the, the tubo pack of 15, the way I look at these, and I think I talked to, I don't know if I talked to you about this the other day, bam, or, or someone else here, this is one of those cigars that you buy that box of 10 and you pick a day each year to smoke one.

Is it your child's birthday anniversary? Is it your own birthday? Is it Christmas, new year's, whatever it may be. You smoke one a year and now over 10 years, you've experienced that same box of cigars once a year on that specific occasion that really, really. Lights it up and, and shows everything that we're talking about tonight

**Senator:** and by the, and by the 10th year, you'll be sitting there.

What a bargain. I paid a hundred dollars. It's now going for

**Gizmo:** 500 and it will be by the way. So true.

**Poobah:** Unlike by the way, and this previews unlike a cigar that we, we all love. Um, like if you pick up, pick up a [01:13:00] box of pars eight, nine eights, and, and you try to smoke that cigar young, forget it. Nah, it'll kick your ass.

Yeah. For forget it. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a non-starter. And, and as much as, as, as we all love pars, that's cigar needs. Time period

**Gizmo:** I would put the upman to in there. I would put the upman sir Winston in there I I would put most of those premium Let's call it even fuller bodied cigars than what we're smoking tonight in that category That you cannot smoke them with less than three, four or five years of age at the starting point.

We have a cigar that's not even a year old and is, is giving us this experience tonight. That's what I think, why I would recommend the cigar at 120 is it, it's working today and certainly is going to work in, in three years, five years, 10 years. Yeah. But do you think

**Rooster:** that Habanos is maybe changing that because we have smoked quite a few [01:14:00] young cigars that have performed.

Amazing. So, so I mean, what if we haven't really smoked an 898 from a

**Gizmo:** fresh box lately? That's true. Well, we haven't seen them. I don't, I haven't seen any 898s come up, but I think the important thing is to your point, certainly Habano's blending decisions of recent releases have, have been really, really strong.

Turquino's Ramona, Ramona Aonis, Aonis number three, certainly, but this is the same blend as when they put it out in 2012. The tobacco may be better. The run may be better. The construction quality control to poop his point earlier might be better, but I think this is benefiting from not being in a 52 ring gauge.

It's tobacco, not stuffed in that 52, it's in a 54, has a little bit more length on it. That, I think, is a merit to that blending decision they made, you know, 13 years ago. What did you say the ring gauge on this

**Senator:** is again? 54. Wow. Yeah, and I mean, you know, the 54, but it being a pyramid, it's like, the fact that at the end of this, this probably smokes like, [01:15:00] 48?

48, or probably maybe a 50 even. It enhances the experience, right? When we all got this cigar, I think every person in the room said, wow, that's a big cigar. It's intimidating. It is. And I don't think any of us particularly love and chase a very large ring gauge cigar, but in this format, it's just perfect.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And look, I would challenge anyone in this room not to pick up the cigar, regardless of the cost. To have a tranquil experience, right? I don't need a It's a special occasion cigar. Well, not only, I'm going the opposite. I don't need a birth of a child or a birthday or a project that I won or a great client.

If I need a moment like this, this is going to deliver with this spirit tonight, what Poobah and Senator hit on earlier. I just need a moment to really relax and completely decompress. This cigar does it. It does, regardless of the price, it does it at any time. And sometimes you need

**Senator:** that. It's true, and honestly, I mean, I'm trying to, I mean, as Bam Bam's saying that, I'm sitting here [01:16:00] saying, like, I don't really know that I'm lighting up a 120 stick on a random night.

However, as I'm sitting here challenging myself to rationalize this, There are actually ways to do it. I mean, if you think about, like, what people do to relax, like, when they're stressed out, right? If you were to go, like, get a massage for an hour, you're spending 100, 120. You're going to smoke this cigar for an hour and a half minimum.

**Gizmo:** Not in Cuba.


**Senator:** benefits though. And in a place with labor laws, you're going to pay for a nice massage. 100, 120. And that's going to be for 50 to 60 minutes. And so the fact that you get. An hour and a half minimum of a fantastic experience that just relaxes you and allows you to really decompress. There are ways to rationalize what Bam is saying.

A hundred percent

**Gizmo:** agreed.

**Pagoda:** I think the cigar would be better after a massage either

**Bam Bam:** way.

**Gizmo:** Don't factor that into your rating, please. Maybe smoke that cigar while you're getting it. There you go.

**Bam Bam:** That's even better. [01:17:00] I like that. That's a bit of a crime, but okay. What's interesting is we all have this incredible cigar.

It's about three quarters of an inch done. And we're, most of us are still really enjoying

**Gizmo:** this cigar. I'm not going to put it down until I have to. Neither

**Bam Bam:** am I. Yeah. It's

**Senator:** insane. It's outrageous. I never take cigars. I'm not, you know, Bam will have a roach clip basically, like a perfect draw. It's true. I mean, I've got like a half an inch of this thing left and it's still performing.

Flawlessly. It's crazy. I'm not getting pneumonia. I'm not getting a ton of youth. It's just picked up in strength in a nice way. I am really genuinely shocked.

**Bam Bam:** And Grindr took it down to about a half inch. I took it down. Very impressed. Well, not all

**Grinder:** the way down,

**Senator:** but. And Poobah still got it. That's all the way down.

Yeah, but I had a, I had a shallow

**Grinder:** cut too. Like, mine's all the way at the tip. Now you're good, man. That's

**Gizmo:** pretty the one thing, you know, uh, Poobah touched on it very briefly, but the, the construction, the burn line, you know, there was very little touching up. I [01:18:00] don't think I heard almost anybody in the room reaching for their lighter, not ever to blast.

**Senator:** I haven't seen anyone probably not.

**Gizmo:** I did it once cause I was talking and I just wanted to give it a little bit of a correction. But as far as the consistency of the construction and the burn line, I can't cigar. This young is kind of shocking. Yeah. Perform so well. Pagoda, what do you think right now?

**Pagoda:** Yeah, no, exactly the same. I was just thinking, um, it, you know, it self corrects itself in terms of the bone line. It's, uh, been fantastic. There was a moment over there, I thought I was far ahead of everybody, so I didn't smoke for a bit, so I had to touch it up.

**Gizmo:** That's called discipline, boys. Discipline, discipline.


**Senator:** mean, the fact that nobody has ash on them from this cigar. Oh, I did. By the way, my

**Grinder:** first ash fell off perfectly into a stack of dimes right on my leg.

**Gizmo:** This has been [01:19:00] an excellent evening here, boys on both the cognac and the cigar. I mean, yeah, and, and a coincidental pairing. I don't, you hadn't had, have you had this cognac

**Senator:** prior? No, I hadn't, but I always, I look up at least notes to try to make my best guess as far as something that would or wouldn't pair.

**Gizmo:** Speaking of notes, are there any notes on the box? The flavor notes on the box from the cognac? I love when we read to see how accurate what the manufacturer says that we're supposed to be getting from the spirit because I'm curious how accurate it is. So, the

**Senator:** only thing they have on here, it says, Camu Borderese XO is distinguished by its delicate violet and vanilla aromas and its smoothness on the palate.

That's all it says. Dude, vanilla's very accurate. The thing is, when you go on their website, And look at the notes that they call out today. I feel it's far more descriptive and accurate. I mean, everything that was discussed here, the, the fruit notes that you get, the citrus that Poobah mentioned, the very faint bit of cocoa that I met, like all of it is there.

So I, I do give [01:20:00] them credit in the sense that I don't think there's anything that they've called out that we would sit there and say, that's, you know, it says violent, like there are some floral even qualities to this cognac. Yeah. I don't think there's anything that they mentioned that we would say, what are they talking about?

This is fruity decadence like that ridiculous Singleton or something. So they, they've done a good job, I think overall.

**Poobah:** Yeah, it, it, it, it paired very well. I mean, um, very well because the, the, the, the notes in the cigar, there was some fruit, there were some dried fruit, there was some cocoa. There was really a.

Like I said, it was a very, you know, a very appropriate pairing. And, um, it happens a lot that we stumble, that we kind of stumble into these things. And, um, maybe it's just, uh, the folks here are making better decisions from what we bear with, or, or we're just, [01:21:00] or we're just getting lucky, but I, I don't think it's luck.

I think, I think we're thinking about these things a little bit more prescriptively, um, You know, as we moved down the line and, and, uh, Senator

**Bam Bam:** is very proud about that statement,

**Senator:** by the way. So I'm sorry. Look, I, I guess those taking credit. Look

**Bam Bam:** at

**Senator:** the thing is. So whenever everybody knows that's listening to this podcast, I'm a big wine person.

So for me, pairings are incredibly important, right? You go to dinner and people usually hand me the wine lists. They pick a good bottle of wine. That's going to pair with whatever,

**Gizmo:** by the way, we do that. When we go to restaurants and you're not there. We send you a picture and so I've gotten literally, I've

**Senator:** gotten photos from almost every person in the, in fact, I think actually every person in this room asking for a wine record and I'm happy to do it.

That's what this is all about, but very seriously to poop his point about being a little bit more intentional. I, because I think we've all experienced frustrating pairings where we've just kind of randomly paired something. I, I am very on top of what are we pairing and do we have a [01:22:00] plan because it's, you want it to compliment and enhance the experience.

And when it doesn't, it really detracts from it. So I'm glad that I think we've been more intentional about it. And I think it's just to the listener, just emphasizing how important it is to pick something, whether it's alcoholic or non alcoholic, right? We've done non alcoholic pairings too, that have scored really, really high.

It just being intentional about what you're going to consume with the cigar to really enhance it.

**Gizmo:** And I think the cognac journey has been a, a, a revelation. Oh, yeah. EE. Even VSOP and up. Yeah. You know, we've found some really, really exciting pairings, even with inexpensive cigars, inexpensive cognacs that have really been really, really special.


**Senator:** just say it now. I think that cognac. As a category of spirits has the highest batting average of any category. 100 percent agree. How many bad scotches or bourbons have we tried? It's not to say. [01:23:00] We consume probably more scotch than anything. That's right. However, just from a batting average standpoint.

I mean, there are a few Cognacs that we have not liked. I think the overwhelming majority

**Gizmo:** we've been realizing. I think the only one we didn't like, I think the only one we did not like, The D'Ussé. Was the, and the D'Ussé and the Heine VSOP. The standard Heine. The standard Heine VSOP. We didn't love that one.

The Toller bottle. Yeah. And that

**Senator:** enhanced defense, that bottle, which is why they make two VSOPs, the Hein Rehr VSOP, that's meant to be sipping. In their defense, they actively say that is meant to be a mixing cognac. It's not really designed to be a sipping spirit. Right.

**Gizmo:** So boys, we're coming to the end of our evening here with the Kamu XO and the Kamu.

Kamu. How do you pronounce it? Kamu. Kamu. Kamu. Camu XO and the Cohiba Pyramides Xtra. Any final thoughts here before we move into our ratings? That's an

**Bam Bam:** incredible night. [01:24:00] I agree.

**Gizmo:** It's that simple. All right, let's do the, uh, the rating on the XO. Bam Bam, you're up. I need to sip first. Hold on. Do it in the mic so everybody can hear it.

**Bam Bam:** That's a legitimate sip. I just disgusted Puma.

**Poobah:** Are you drinking a fountain soda from Sonic? What are you doing? You know,

**Bam Bam:** I need to, you know, I need to be dramatic with this thing. Okay. Uh, you know, it, it, it truly is a sophisticated experience, this camo, the vanilla notes on the nose and how it paired with the cigar, regardless of the price.

I wish we would have done this during the holidays cause this is a great post Thanksgiving drink. Yeah. Great Christmas Eve drink. New Year's Eve. It is truly a home run. I got to give it a 10. All right. Has to be a 10. Grindr.

**Grinder:** I'm giving it a 9. I thought it was delicious. Um, I don't know why a 9 versus a 10.

Probably because I, I think a 10 is a really hard, hard one [01:25:00] to pin down. You're a tough customer. Um, but I, it was, I, it was delicious from the first sip. I think when, when I took that first sip, I kind of looked around the room and was kind of making those like, damn, like, you know, the, the, the stinky face, but in a good way.

That was like good. Um, yeah, I'd say every, all those notes that you guys have been reflecting on are, are very valid. I was pleasantly surprised with the port, um, flavor, but it was so, it was so subtle and soft that it really, you know, when you mentioned it, I was like, wow, it's, it's there, but I like it. And I thought that, that kind of nuance and, uh, surprise was, was really delicious.

And. to your point. It's a cozy, warm drink. Very cozy. So I think, you know, in a warm setting with warm lighting with, with good friends, this is, it's hard to beat. It's

**Bam Bam:** incredible.

**Gizmo:** Pagoda.

**Pagoda:** Uh, I'd rate it a nine as well. I think I really enjoyed it. Um, what I really enjoyed was once again, [01:26:00] bringing out the glass of my nose and just smelling it very, very It's an excellent, excellent aroma.

Um, um, I was, uh, taking a puff of the cigar and just getting a bit of the aroma of, uh, the cognac. It was fantastic. Um, uh, no harshness at all. Uh, you know, uh, while it was, uh, you know, somewhat of a dry finish, but still, uh, very flavorful in the mouth. Uh, really enjoyed it. Uh, nine for me.

**Bam Bam:** I have to say, you don't get an opportunity to drink something like this very often.

It, it's really quite a special experience for me.

**Senator:** Senator. So I, I started debating between a nine or a 10, but I've landed in lockstep with BAM. I'm at a 10. And the reason I say that we've all commented how smooth this is, which is what you would expect from an exo cognac. But what really stands out to me is this is really robust in flavor and to be able to do that and deliver this as smoothly as they have.

I also think that Camu is [01:27:00] very. This flavor profile, which is new to me, I've never tried anything that they make. It's very defined and distinguished within the category. Like I, I now would know what a camu cognac tastes like, and I like the flavor profile. You know, I think we've done some cognacs where I'm forgetting the one.

It was one was super cherry forward. And I think some of us even went as far as saying like a little like cough syrup or cough medicine. And that wasn't really my, my, actually it might've been one of the Martels that we did. Like it worked, but it wasn't something I would pursue that aggressively. I don't think any of us have picked up a bottle of Martel since then.

This I would definitely pick up. And I think as Bam said, it's something for an occasion. That is absolutely worth enjoying. And I do think for as robust as I'm describing the flavor profile you get from it, there's complexity. You're getting multiple notes. This is not like a monotone one or even two note.

Um, cognac there, there's a lot here. So I'm at a [01:28:00] 10 and I would definitely drink this again.

**Poobah:** Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm also at a 10 and, and primarily because, because of the balance, there was a, there was an incredible, I think when, whether you're drinking a well mixed cocktail or whether you're smoking a cigar that, um, for me personally, balance is key.

Um, the, the, the dry finish in combination with the, the, kind of the fruit notes up front. And those, that, that quintessential kind of cognac flavor profile, along with all the other flavor notes that everybody talked about really the dry and the sweet. Really made it for me. I enjoyed it. And it was, and it was balanced.

And I think that in a cocktail or in a spirit, when you kind of achieve that balance, [01:29:00] that where you're like, you know what, like this is. You know, if you, if you were on a seesaw and you're kind of at equilibrium with it, uh, in its delivery, you can't ask for much more than that. Very true. And, um, you know, they're probably cognacs that are maybe more dynamic that there are.

I'm sure there are that are more dynamic in their delivery or more, you know, um, indulgent or whatever you may or may not be there may or may not be. But for me tonight, um, this presented a really balanced spirit. And a really nice experience. So I mean, I'm going to give it a 10.

**Gizmo:** Okay. So I'm going to give it a nine.

So the reason why, so the port forward thing, as we've kind of talked about a little bit, took away for me a little bit at the beginning. And I also feel like the Remy XO is a step above this for me. [01:30:00] Really? The Remy XO is a step above for sure. It, especially for me, as I pair it with a cigar. Even a cigar that's mild, medium as this is, or something that's a little bit more full.

I'll take the Remy over this any day. You're very, you're very

**Bam Bam:** analytical tonight. Tonight, just tonight. Is he? Well, I don't

**Poobah:** know. The Remy XO's outstanding. It's incredible. I mean, it's outstanding, but it's different. It is different,

**Gizmo:** but I

**Senator:** I like his finish, and then I want to

**Gizmo:** So it is different, but it's more in line with my palette.

And that port thing that we talked about does push it down a little bit. That port, whatever that thing is on the front of it, it just doesn't work for me as well as some of the other cognac that we've done. So this is a nine for me. And that puts the formal. Liquor rating boys at a 9. 5. Wow. Excellent.

Excellent score. Oh yeah. Excellent score. Oh, Senator, your rebuttal on what I just want to say

**Senator:** quickly, it's not a rebuttal in that I'm, I don't take issue [01:31:00] with your argument, please.

A nine is a great rating. I have, I have no problem there. And we all have different palates. Some more refined than others.

The only part that I think you've missed that I do want to point out, I don't like the comparison of this directly to Remy XO in the sense that they're competing for the same thing, but it's a

**Bam Bam:** completely different spirit though. It tastes, it drinks like a different spirit than that.

**Senator:** That's where I'm going.

A hundred percent. They're not competing. The flavor profile of each is so distinguished that to me, you're reaching for either of them at different occasions when you're looking for the notes that they deliver. Like there are some cognates that drink. Extremely similarly in flavor profile. Like I would argue that Hennessy and Remy seek similar profiles.

And I just think that Remy has done it a bit better than Hennessy [01:32:00] has. And so for me, they're competing for space, right? The two of them are going head to head for these. Same occasion for me. This is distinct enough that I'm not pulling for this at the exact same time that I'm thinking of Remy XO. And so both of them are happily attend because they serve different purposes.

**Gizmo:** So for me, my counter to what you're saying though, is that I'm not going to stock multiple bottles of 250 XO. Cognac. No, just

**Senator:** cigars, just

**Gizmo:** cigar, right? But you'll have one. I'll have one or two. And that's why it is comparative for me, even though their audience or target may be different. It is comparative because when I go to the liquor store, I'm not buying both.

I'm buying one correct. And the one I'm going to buy is the Remy over this. I'm not saying that they're, you know, they're like, your point is very valid. You're looking at it from a point of

**Bam Bam:** view of economy.

**Gizmo:** Of course, I'm not going to stock 500 and 750 worth of cognac in my tower. Sure you will. No, no, no.[01:33:00]

For this experience? I'm going to have one XO. I'm going to have one XO in my tower. Okay. It's going to be Remy. You're storing your

**Senator:** cognac in your tower?

**Gizmo:** I have a, I have a cognac tower. What? With one

**Senator:** bottle.

**Gizmo:** It's right in the middle with lights on

**Bam Bam:** it. It has only one shelf. Are you actually doing that? No.

Because I need an hour of atonement from you.

**Gizmo:** What? Alright boys, it's time to do our formal lizard rating on the Cohiba Pyramides Extra. You're up. Yeah, so I'm, I mean, it's,

**Rooster:** it's amazing how good the cigar is. I'm

**Gizmo:** looking at Bams, , . So bam. By the way, for that listener, he has this perfect draw out. He has maybe an eighth of an inch and about three quarters of an inch of ash on five millimeters.

I cannot

**Bam Bam:** stop smoking the cigar. I can't.

**Poobah:** It's

**Rooster:** ama amazing cigar. I mean, it's for how fresh this cigar is, and knowing that the cohibas need a lot of age. It was. Pretty much a shock that how good it [01:34:00] performed. Very much so. It

**Gizmo:** was,

**Rooster:** you know, there wasn't a lot of tobacco in it. It was light. It was, the construction

**Gizmo:** was impeccable.

**Rooster:** So I'm going to give it a

**Gizmo:** nine. All right. Uh,

**Poobah:** great cigar, great build, great, great construction, great combustion. Um, really, really nice. I, the flavor profile was terrific. Thought a previewed. Well, I give it a nine all day. I think in time it will, uh, it'll get, it'll only get exponentially

**Gizmo:** better. So for me, the cigars are 10.

Absolutely. All day, every day, this cigar is to me, the best of Cuban tobacco, young, with age, with a medium amount of age. I can't believe how much I've been enjoying this cigar. I'm so happy that we enjoyed it to the level that we did tonight. I don't think [01:35:00] you can beat this cigar with under a year of age on any Cuban cigar out there.

I just don't think it can be beat. This delivered such a sophisticated experience tonight. Absolutely. 1000 percent attend for me. All day, every day.

**Senator:** Senator. So, I agree with you that it's hard to beat the experience that this delivered Young. I have no dispute there. The only thing I will say is that why I'm at a nine and in lockstep with Rooster and Poobah is I do want more from this cigar.

I mean, at no point did we say this is like a firmly medium cigar, which is what all of us really pursue at a minimum. We're all cigar smokers, medium, medium, full, and full. Those are usually what we pursue for, uh, depending on the time and occasion that we're looking for. And so do I now what's encouraging to me and where I can see this eventually getting a 10 is I do think with age, maybe this will build a bit [01:36:00] and deliver a firmly medium experience.

And that would be a 10, but that's the only reason for me, I never even toyed with a 10 in the sense that the flavor, uh, the, the, the body of the flavor in this cigar needs to get. Stronger for this to hit a

**Poobah:** height like that. Yes, I'm sorry to interrupt. It doesn't have that X factor right now to give it a 10.

It doesn't have the, it doesn't have that factor. I don't know. It doesn't have the X factor where you're, you're, where, where aging comes into play and the cigar presents itself in its. In, in a more, actually in the way it should be presented. It previewed fantastic. Uh, but, but its full potential has, is not yet realized.

It, it's, which is why I'm firm at a nine. It's just not [01:37:00] there. I don't, that's why I can't, I, I couldn't give it a 10.

**Senator:** I dunno. Same. And the things I will say as, as far as why I gave it the nine, the construction burn. And combustion were full off. Outstanding. The notes you get in the cigar are notes that I pursue.

Honestly, they're not even notes that I traditionally associate with Cohiba. I mean, just being very honest, that's a true statement to me. Smokes. They're more upman like notes in this and there are

**Gizmo:** Cohiba more upman notes in it.

**Senator:** This cigar is an outlier. Which is why I loved it. Right? So if these were just pure, straight, traditional Cohiba notes, there's no way I would have given this a nine.

That's why this is one of the only cigars in the Cohiba portfolio that I would actually pursue and want to smoke again. And I'm very excited about the potential of with some age, having never had this before, I would love to see with five years, what this thing smokes like. Um, and the [01:38:00] complexity, despite it not being firmly medium, being milder, it was still very complex in the presentation of all those flavors.

So for all those reasons, it's a very strong nine, a very strong recommend. I can't wait to try another one of these cigars, but I'm, I'm holding out for. And hoping that it will hit more body to really just bring together this experience in a, in a more complete way, which would give it

**Poobah:** the 10. Exactly. It doesn't have, it didn't deliver the depth.

It didn't deliver that depth that. That, that, that you really need. Well,

**Bam Bam:** it's a good thing. We have three other reviews in the room. coming up, by the way, but, but can

**Gizmo:** I make them? But all but all those standby have nothing to say. Now all those notes are there. This is a three-Way conversation.

**Bam Bam:** Sorry. Wait, who's next?

Sorry, who's next?

**Gizmo:** All right, so Pagoda. All right.

**Pagoda:** I've been debating between a nine and ten all throughout. Um, I think I'm going to give it a ten because, [01:39:00] and there are a couple of reasons why. One of them is very simply that look at where the cigar is for me, and I think in most people's hands. It's also unusual.

If you try and pull a cigar all the way to the end and then, You are still seeking something then maybe, um, you know, uh, from my perspective, I think, uh, this is something I've really enjoyed. Uh, the other thing is, this is also, like I've said, while my, uh, you know, palate is evolving over a period of time, I've really enjoyed the cigar from the beginning to the end.

And, uh, Considering that, that this is not within my flavor profile and it's milder to medium, and it's still something that I'm smoking right till the end. So that's an incredible

**Bam Bam:** statement right there. Without,

**Pagoda:** like, without anything, then it is a 10 for me. And so, um, having said that, it's a 10.

**Grinder:** Grinder.

It's a nine for me for all the reasons, uh, cited for those that gave it a nine. Um, I would also say that I think, I think you're, you guys. I think it's, it's, it's, it's quite a, uh, [01:40:00] an accomplishment to say a Cuban cigar is a 10 without any age. Um, it's dubious in my opinion, but that's my opinion.

**Bam Bam:** All right.

**Senator:** Bam, bam, bam, bam. As he's smoking more ash than cigar.

**Bam Bam:** It's good ash though. It's good. Hold on. I need to drag before.

**Grinder:** Oh, your, your lips are cut.

**Bam Bam:** So, I have to disagree with the nines in the room. There you go. Yeah. I like to, I like to experience a cigar in three ways. At the burn line, and at the draw, and on the retrohale.

And this cigar delivered in all three facets impeccably. On the burn line, I got incredible cocoa aroma. On the retro, a lot of dessert notes. And on the draw, that quintessential salty Cuban note. Right down to the quarter of an inch cigar that I'm smoking now. Regardless of the price, I have to give it a 10.

I have to give it a 10. Don't you

**Gizmo:** think

**Rooster:** there is [01:41:00] room for

**Pagoda:** improvement?

**Bam Bam:** Will this get better in a year? I don't know. Not a year. Both Poobah, Senator, and Grindr, uh, Gizmo, I'm sorry. Talk about this sine curve where this cigar could experience an up and a down as it ages. Right now for what it is, it's an absolute 10.

In two years, it could be a nine. In three years it can go back up to a

**Senator:** 10. Would you don't know like that to have any more body than it does right now? No.

**Bam Bam:** Because of what Uba said earlier, and I'm, I'm, I'm in lockstep with him because of the way, so look, I'm, I'm, there aren't many cigars where I can retro hale get an incredible, incredible experience on the burn line and on the draw.

That's unique and rare. I can get

**Poobah:** there. I can, it's unique and rare. I can name 20. Well, that we've reviewed in this podcast, I'm just, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just saying, are you sure? I'm just saying, well, no, I mean, I'm just saying like,

**Gizmo:** there's room for improvement.

**Pagoda:** So the thing is we are rating this stuff for what it is today.

[01:42:00] Right? Like. Our experience today,

**Senator:** but what we're smoking, it needs, it could, it could improve a bit. The

**Bam Bam:** guys. You

**Pagoda:** don't

**Bam Bam:** know if it's going to improve in a year or two. You just don't know for what it is.

**Senator:** It's not about whether we know it's that we want more body. We want a medium experience out of the cigar.

And frankly, Cohiba even Cohiba Lanceros I've smoked, I would say are medium. They're, they're not

**Gizmo:** mild.

**Rooster:** Yeah. I mean, have you, have you had an aged.

**Gizmo:** Cohiba. I have not. I have. I have. I have. I have. So what I will say is this at its young age competes with the best of Cohiba. No doubt.

**Bam Bam:** It does. Now I've had a young Loncero, which I loved, and I've only had a young Coro in Cuba.

Several times, they were delicious, but nothing like

**Gizmo:** this. So let me just say, the formal lizard rating, boys, on this cigar is a 9. 4. Fantastic. Which I think is a very Which is an accurate score. I think this is an appropriate score. So The composite

**Senator:** makes sense. It does. It is an accurate score, because a 9.

4 is [01:43:00] closer to a 9 than it is a 10. Fair enough. I think you rounded up, by the way. So

**Gizmo:** we've done, uh, we've done, uh 9. 3 cigar. I think

**Poobah:** I actually, I actually think nine, I actually think it 94. It's

**Gizmo:** appropriate. It's the first goal. So, so that's my question. That's my issue with the argument of nine or 10 in the room is that for, for me and, and, and for, you know, BAM's experience, you know, and Pagoda giving a tens, like for me, yes, it might improve.

It might be interesting, more interesting. It might be more full. Those things aren't interesting to me today. Yeah, what was interesting to me today was the fact that we had a cigar that's under a year old that performed as brilliantly I would argue the cigar tonight the way we smoked it for all seven of us was Absolutely brilliant.

It was that's that in and of itself is worthy For me as a 10 agreed. So if you go back to, let's say

**Rooster:** if you had a [01:44:00] Cohiba, same, same Cohiba

**Gizmo:** when it was first released. I have those 2012. I have 10 of those from 2012. I'll take the one I smoked tonight over the one from 2012. Are you

**Bam Bam:** going to distribute those to us?

No. To test. So. I think we need to rate that too. Yeah, we do. Please.

**Rooster:** Yeah, we should have done an

**Gizmo:** A, B.

**Rooster:** I mean, I personally think that Cohibas do need a lot of phage. I mean, we're, I mean, we're kind of lucky that how well the cigar was for what it was. Otherwise, it would not have gotten a nine. We're fortunate.

I think nine is a

**Gizmo:** very high score for what

**Senator:** it is. It is. And to be clear, even with my nine, this is the only Cohiba. That I would say is great young, the only one I'm sorry. I, the Lancero young, I think it's good. I don't think it's great. I think it needs time. The Robusto, I, I, I don't even call good. I think it just park it and let it sleep.

I'm there. I don't even want to touch a young Cohiba Robusto. [01:45:00] Um, the Seaglows, some of them are good young, but they're not great. This is the only truly great cigar, and for me, just wasn't spectacular in hitting literally every single thing that I personally look for in a cigar for my palate.

**Gizmo:** So, I mean, we gave

**Rooster:** an up man

**Gizmo:** to a love 14.

A 10. I know. I was about to go

**Poobah:** there. So how, I mean, totally deserving.

**Bam Bam:** Oh, a hundred percent deserving. It's a different cigar. So how would you

**Gizmo:** compare

**Rooster:** that cigar to this cohiba tonight? No

**Poobah:** comparison.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. Well, so here's what I would say. So let me, let me go through a couple of things. Let me, let me just pause the conversation for a second.

So this is the third Cohiba we've done on the podcast. We did the Sigla two on episode 24. They got an 8. 0 and we did the Lancero. On episode 78, which got a 9. 6. So that edged this by two tenths of a point. That was an incredible. And that was a, that had age of 2021. And there's only 2021. So it was only two years.

We were drunk

**Bam Bam:** when we rated. [01:46:00] No, come on. That's an incredible

**Senator:** timeout timeout. Just quickly on that. Are you gonna tell me that that Cohiba answer was better than this cigar we just smoked? No, that's all I'm

**Gizmo:** saying. They were in lockstep for me.

**Bam Bam:** Okay. You know, I'm aligning with, with Gizmo. They were kind of lock up BA's changing his I am, I'm not changing my rating, I'm changing

**Gizmo:** my opinion in, in the Battle of the pyramids.

Let's go through the battle of the pyramids, because now this is, uh, one of the only, uh, pyramids we hadn't done. So the diplomatic number two we did on episode 44, that was a 6.2. The Monte Crito number two we did on a. episode 28. That was good. That was an 8. 4. The part of gas series P number two was on episode 36 was an 8.

7 and the age up and number two from 2014 nearly 10 years aged now, uh, from episode 40 got a 9. 8. So again, going back to go to thumb

**Bam Bam:** ratcheting is actually very accurate. It's over there like this from Pagoda

**Gizmo:** from Pagoda, you know, day [01:47:00] one with the, you know, composite lizard score. Uh, the 9. 4 tonight, I think is appropriate compared to an 8.

7 on a P2 from Partagas and a 9. 8 from Hupman number two, I think it works

**Senator:** out. In fairness, the composite score never lies. All right, that's true. There we go. I'm very happy with where the

**Grinder:** composite score landed.

**Pagoda:** Very true. And, you know, I was debating between a 9 and 10 and for me, what it was is that when I go through a lot of, uh, the Cubans in particular, and Uh, when they're milder to medium, uh, bodied, a lot of them just don't fit within my flavor profile and I can't, I don't smoke it to the nub.

This is one of those few that I did smoke it all the way to the nub and you, you guys saw it and I was really enjoying it. You know, the construction was flawless, the burn, the, you know, the smoke output, the draw, you know, you can name a hundred things about it, the flavor profile and it was very, very steady and I really, really enjoyed it.

So for me, um, You know, today I upped it to [01:48:00] a 10, but, uh, I think, uh, the composite score is fair.

**Bam Bam:** Exactly, and both you, Pagoda, and Senator, the composite score reflects accurately the up and to that we had overall. It edged it. And it should edge the cigar. It should. And it did. That was an incredible cigar.

Big time. Incredible.

**Senator:** My favorite cigars and moments that we have are when we have to debate a nine versus a ten. That means we have had such

**Bam Bam:** a spectacular experience. The polarizing nature of the cigar makes it

**Senator:** compelling. But to me, I mean, this cigar I'm sorry, it's not polarizing. Wow. Okay.

**Gizmo:** This cigar, flavor

**Rooster:** wise, was not a ten for me.

Okay. I think it was lacking that complexity that you would get with age. You know, I would like, it's

**Gizmo:** not that

**Poobah:** it's not, it just does. It's shallow. It's not as deep, but it was

**Bam Bam:** again, the composite number is very accurate, previewed

**Poobah:** phenomenal. I mean, as, as well as any cigar as well, it's the [01:49:00] best young cigar.

We've ever smoked in the podcast, the best young Cuban that we've ever smoked. There's no doubt about that. But, but, but, you know, uh, if we're talking about overall ratings, you know, but you

**Pagoda:** know where I stand, but by the way, considering that it's a 9. 4, you've got to really understand that when seven people are reading a cigar, that over a 9.

5 is a very, very, very good school. Oh yeah. So, you know, this is right about there. And uh, yeah, having, yeah, having said that, it does reflect the opinion of some

**Gizmo:** people. Yeah. So, to Pagodas point, the XO tonight getting a 9.5, let's just briefly discuss the other XOs we've done, the Remy XO we did on episode number 42.

Got a flat 10. 0 and the Hennessy XO we did on episode 66 got a flat 9. 0. So this is right in between the two. Nice, [01:50:00] nice. So I think that's also very appropriate as well. Well gentlemen, what a great night!

**Poobah:** Great night. And, and, and, and, and a tribute to the composite approach, which, which one of the consultants in the room, I forget which one was it?

**Gizmo:** Yeah,

**Poobah:** very passionately. Yeah. Yeah. Really advanced and gained alignment

**Bam Bam:** on gained

**Poobah:** alignment. It worked

**Gizmo:** the room. It was very political. Yes. The right approach. Oh yeah. How do you pronounce this thing? Camu or Camu? Camu. Camu. Yeah. Camo Camo cousin. The Shamu. Camo camo ca caou camo

**Senator:** ca. You know, for Christmas we should have bought giz hooked on phonics or something.

**Gizmo:** Oh yeah. Hooked on lizards. Caou. All right. Correct.

**Poobah:** Camo boys on display in Orlando, let's sea

**Gizmo:** World camo. All right, boys, A great night tonight. The camo XO got a 9.5 in the Cohiba pyramid, [01:51:00] extra a 9.4. And we'll see y'all next week. Keep smoking. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, LoungeLizardsPod.

com. That's LoungeLizardsPOD. com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking. Email us hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pot.

We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.