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Two longtime music pros (Sensei & Fatboi) go deep on what makes music great. A podcast for music producers, artists, and fans.
Fatboi is a Multi-platinum, Grammy nominated, award winning producer whose credits include: Camoflauge, YoungBoy Never Broke Again, Gucci Mane, Young Jeezy, Rocko, Shawty Redd, Flo Rida, Bow Wow, Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, Juvenile, Yung Joc, Gorilla Zoe, OJ Da Juiceman, 8Ball & MJG, Jeremih, 2 Chainz, Nicki Minaj, Bobby V, Ludacris and Yo Gotti, Monica, Zay Smith, TK Kravitz, Future.
Sensei Hollywood (a.k.a. Dan Marshall) formerly an instructor and chair of the Audio Production program at the Art Institute of Atlanta, is an accomplished musician, producer, engineer who's performed on and engineered multi--platinum records with Big Boi, Outkast, Killer Mike, Chamillionaire, Carlos Santana, Mary J. Blige, Snoop Dogg, Ron Isley, Lil Wayne, Trillville, Monica, and more...
Fatboi (01:02)
it's levels to this. It's levels to this.
Sensei (01:04)
It is levels to-
Hey, this
we started talking about this, because
we wanted to observe the passing of a great guitar slash producer, Mr. Steve Cropper.
Fatboi (01:17)
Yes.
Sensei (01:18)
one of the greatest to ever do it.
We're going to get into some of the hits that Steve Cropper had a hand in.
Fatboi (01:21)
Very much so.
Sensei (01:24)
But let's take it back to Steve Cropper. You we were talking about paying your dues and here's this skinny white kid showing up at a studio saying, I want to get in where I in.
Fatboi (01:25)
very forward.
Sensei (01:36)
he shows up and he's got something to
Fatboi (01:36)
Thank
Sensei (01:38)
Like that music was forward thinking for the
Fatboi (01:41)
Green Onions was one of those records, man. And it's just, man, it's some of the most impactful, incredible music that's ever been created. And I think it's because of the fusion. They were fusing, and this is their words, they were fusing blues, rhythm and blues.
⁓ country and rock and roll all in yeah putting in a blend and yeah making their own gumbo pot and it was coming out with
Sensei (02:09)
all kind of blender and just creating something new out of all that, yeah.
Got a little hot sauce on it. ⁓
Fatboi (02:19)
Came out this way. Yeah.
I mean, I mean, you, take the record we're talking about, if you just, which we should probably do, ⁓ at some point, ⁓ break this record down, but, but green onions, if you listen to that, everything is all the elements is in that record. it's bluesy.
It has the rhythm, which later became R &B, Rhythm and Blues R &B, and it has the rock and roll element in it, all encompassing in that one body of work.
when I discovered these records and played it around older relatives, they all looked at me like, what you know about that, boy?
Sensei (03:06)
What you know about this?
Alright, we got some blues happening here.
Fatboi (03:12)
There's some blues.
Sensei (03:15)
and little bit of swing on the ride.
Fatboi (03:17)
It got
some swing in it.
Sensei (03:23)
And he got Steve on the guitar, that's some rock and roll. He's not really, it's almost tenuous, but then when he comes in it feels solid though.
Fatboi (03:27)
That's some rock and roll.
Yeah.
Sensei (03:35)
And he's doubling up the bass line here. Boom, ba-doom, boom, boom. Not a lot of songs are doing that. Guitar was playing chords, bass is playing bass. These guys, we're both on the bass. It's super heavy while we got that organ solo. It's not even a solo, it's like a verse. It's a melody that repeats itself. It's asking a question, it's answering the question. Ask another question.
Fatboi (03:41)
No. Yes. Yes.
Yes, it's talking. It's talking. it's,
Sensei (04:04)
resolves that question. And it brings the whole thing back here. Now we've got a paragraph. That's that 12-bar blues.
Fatboi (04:05)
Yeah.
And then when the chorus comes in, he's
talking to the whole group, asking a question and the guitar kind of answers like, yeah, yep.
Sensei (04:23)
got something to say he's giving a little speech right here but there's repetition it's grounded in that 12 bar blues form
Fatboi (04:33)
Man,
this is 1962, I know it's 1962. Yep.
Sensei (04:37)
⁓ nice little bit of reverb right there.
Fatboi (04:44)
man, ⁓ that reverb is... ⁓ Yeah, spring. Yeah, that's a spring reverb. A spring. ⁓
Sensei (04:47)
Like a spring reverb in the amp, think. Yeah.
Just for the,
just, there's enough space to let that reverb be a character in the play here too. And we're back to the verse with the organ. It brings it in smaller now. It's tighter.
Fatboi (05:01)
Now he's rebutting
to what Steve just replied back to him.
Sensei (05:10)
Yes, a little fancier than before, but it's still grounded in that melody.
Fatboi (05:15)
You know, the way I can tell this is 62 is the instruments, not the guitars, but the organ. I can tell, you know, it was a certain organ that they were using back then. A lot of the rockers used it. Yeah, still, yeah, still.
Sensei (05:31)
People still using that organ now.
It's like established elements, you know?
Fatboi (05:41)
⁓ man.
Sensei (05:42)
Going back to
the head here.
Fatboi (05:48)
Yeah, forget the name of the organ, but yeah, that, there you go. A lot of rockers use that organ.
Sensei (05:54)
Or FISA, I think, or Farfisa? Yeah.
Well, because of the impact of the song, but also it's just it's meat and potatoes now it's on the menu, you know, well, green onions, actually, I should say.
Fatboi (06:08)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Green,
there you go.
he was just a kid that was like just doing whatever around the studio. He wasn't even getting paid.
Sensei (06:18)
Well, ⁓ I got news for you. That's how a lot of us get sucked into this deal. The promise of exposure.
Fatboi (06:23)
That is true. That is true. That is true. You know what? But you know what though?
Those of us that took that route end up having pretty good careers, a good portion of because we followed a, there was a pecking order. You had to earn it. Nothing was just given. You made it like you needed to belong. Yes, yes. Or as they call it, paying dues.
Sensei (06:50)
Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, there's something to that, like the apprenticeship vibe, like you have to give service to get experience.
That's what they call it. Or other people call it working for free, but you ⁓
Fatboi (07:02)
Hang do's.
Working for free. Would you know what though?
The average successful person will work for free because the average successful person makes things happen versus just working for somebody and being content with just getting a paycheck from somebody.
Sensei (07:21)
Well, I-
Now I'll put it another way, the successful people work for experience and knowledge and credibility. To put it in turn, it is level, so you gotta start at level zero is you show up, I don't know nothing, can I work for you and prove to you I'm responsible and smart and talented over time.
Fatboi (07:36)
to get them to the next level. It's levels to this. It's levels to this.
Yeah, ⁓ to be a great leader, you must first be a great follower. Yes. Yes. You have to... Now, this is also depending on if you were following somebody worth following. You're right. Exactly. Some people you follow off the clip, but if you indeed follow somebody that was worthy of following,
Sensei (07:59)
Lead to serve, serve to lead is why I always heard that, yeah.
Some people you follow off the cliff.
Fatboi (08:23)
they would instill in you those leadership qualities, you know, and you would move it forward. ⁓ All of your greatest leaders, they followed somebody great first.
Sensei (08:38)
I've had a few people like that and like that's my whole nickname sensei literally means
Fatboi (08:45)
You're
a good, you're a great leader,
Sensei (08:48)
It literally means in Japanese,
one who has come before, one who goes before. That's what the...
Fatboi (08:51)
Yeah. You've led
others. Look at, look at your students. You got some students that's doing, they're doing the damn thing then. And you are also a creator of things where to get paid, you had to make it happen. It depended on you. So, so, and, and, and in doing that, there was many days.
Sensei (08:56)
And, ⁓ well.
Well...
definitely.
Fatboi (09:21)
You worked for free.
Sensei (09:24)
Yeah, but the trick is to balance that with getting somewhere and to start and tomorrow's prices are not today's prices.
Fatboi (09:30)
Yeah, you're right. Right. And that is true.
That is true. You have to build up a trust in the product you're selling. And if the people ⁓ see your product as a good product, they will indeed start giving their hard earned money for the product that they believe in. If it's a shitty product, they're not buying it.
Sensei (09:59)
Well, I just had this conversation. I'm lining up like an album project for 2026. And it's like, look, I like your stuff. I would do it for free, but it's not sustainable. I'm at this point in my life, I got a mortgage, I got health insurance. I got to make this sustainable. So unfortunately, I can't be in the free club any longer. We got to make this work. That's just what it is. But when you're
Fatboi (10:00)
So the product gotta be good too.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Free isn't sustainable. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean,
on the other hand, life keeps life in life, keeps life. And so you got to figure out a way how to, but, ⁓ you also, you know, when I was doing the thing that I loved for free, I was also doing other things to have income coming in while I was doing the thing for free until it started paying for, you know, first and foremost.
Sensei (10:31)
It does.
Right, right, right, right, exactly. But to actually succeed, you have to put your 10,000 hours in,
but once you do that, you gotta start charging for those hours and making it sustainable and make a living and be successful. That's just what it is.
Fatboi (11:00)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it gotta make sense.
for you to be able to quit your nine to five job and go to the next level. Yes. Going out on leap of faith, that's first step. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, yeah. I definitely jumped. I jumped. I took that leap of faith and I was, I was, I was free falling.
Sensei (11:15)
It's always a leap of faith though. You don't really succeed until you make that leap of faith off the cliff. And hopefully you've got wings now.
Fatboi (11:35)
I was free falling.
Sensei (11:36)
I like how you're doing the shake like you're on a like a parachute and everything. Hope that parachute opens.
Fatboi (11:39)
Yes. And then, know, I
zoom. ⁓ you know, yes, that is a part of the journey, man. And, you know, many in this business, man, they've taken the leap of faith, but the parachute didn't come open. They crashed.
Sensei (11:46)
Hahaha
It's a tough walk back up to the top of that hill after that, but. You're like the coyote chasing that road runner. The Acme catapult just threw you into the ground.
Fatboi (12:08)
⁓ man, yeah, yeah, I mean, cause you got two broken legs. You gotta, you gotta pull yourself back up.
Wile E. Coyote, man. Yeah, yeah. You know. ⁓ man. Yes.
And I mean, in our journeys, you fail more than you win. That's a part of it. That's part of the learning process. Your failures build character. ⁓ But the caveat to that is it's a marathon, not a sprint.
Sensei (12:49)
It is, it definitely is. And there are laps around the track. It goes in cycles.
Fatboi (12:52)
So you're going to, yes, yes,
yes, yes. It goes in cycles. you can't, way too many people take one failure and make that the whole race. And that's not the race. That was just a cycle. You failed in one cycle, but the next cycle, you might gain traction, you know, and sometimes they don't see it through. And before the race is over, they quit.
Sensei (13:22)
You know, that's mile one, you trip, tie your shoes, get back up and keep running. And at mile 25, today's hurdle is AI. Mile 26, it'll be something else, you know.
Fatboi (13:31)
Hey, hey, something else.
You figure it out and make it work because
we've talked about this briefly. We've touched on it, but that Stax Music House is responsible for a lot of great music that we all know and love and great historical artists and musicians. The whole thing.
We've touched on it before, but
Stax kind of gets overlooked a little bit and left out probably because of the way Stax ended. But what Stax did in the...
Sensei (14:12)
How did Stax
end? What was the, was there drama? What was the deal with Stax?
Fatboi (14:19)
It wasn't really drama, it was artists got poached. You know, the big labels, ⁓ Atlantic, Atlantic poached Sam and Dave. Sam and Dave was one of their biggest moneymakers. ⁓ And it might've been, was as simple as some paperwork got overlooked and not followed up with.
Sensei (14:44)
Yeah. Sloppy business. Just a little sloppy business. They had a good heart, but maybe some sloppy business, that fair to say?
Fatboi (14:45)
And it ended up spiraling down. Yes. And, and yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Cause they were always, they were always the little guy. Stax was the little guy, but the little guy was making so much noise with what they were doing and setting a precedent for how music or where music was going at that time. They were creating a sound very much so.
Sensei (15:10)
It was forward thinking. It was kind of radical.
I think.
It's fair to say it's the thing about Steve Cropper. He was not flashy. He didn't take over the show. He was there to be a supporting member. And we're in an era. When an era where a lot of like white artists, I'm not going to name names, Elvis stole the entire genre and vibe of black music at the time.
Fatboi (15:19)
No, no, not at all.
He did his job.
Well, because Elvis was the guy that had the look. He has the look. If we give this guy with the look, the swag, he can go places. And growing up in Memphis and learning everything he learned from black artists, ⁓ cause he did love...
blues and you know, anything black. You know, Elvis did have that in his repertoire because that's where he got it from. But when you give the white guy the black swag that goes with that music and he performs it in front of an all white audience, because you know, black people loved Elvis too. But he was talented.
Sensei (16:26)
Well, I mean, he was talented. You know what's saying he's not talented?
Fatboi (16:31)
But you didn't
see that's first time you saw that in a white guy with the gyration of the hips and you know.
Sensei (16:38)
But to
contrast, and we'll definitely have to do it in of this episode one of these days, let's talk about Steve Cropper. Now, him and Donald...
Fatboi (16:42)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not the
complete opposite of Elvis. Not flashy. Yeah. Talent was there, but...
Sensei (16:49)
Well, in a lot of ways, because he was there to be a supporting player. He
was always tasty. In fact, there's a key moment with the Sam and Dave song, they're like, it, Steve. And he plays like one note, but it's the perfect note. And Soulman.
Fatboi (17:01)
Yeah. What, what, ⁓ yeah. Soul man. Yeah.
Soul man. And even, ⁓ green eggs and onions. He had, I mean, that's the green onions, even on green onions. ⁓ he has one guitar lick and it is mighty and tasty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sensei (17:10)
or green onion, green eggs and ham, that's Dr. Seuss. ⁓
and it's tasty. And it's like two notes.
Fatboi (17:31)
And it's man, it's a big, if you take that out of the song, you miss it.
Sensei (17:38)
Matter of fact, let's listen down to it right now since we're talking about it. Let me see. I think I got pulled up here.
Fatboi (17:43)
green eggs and ham. That's where my mind
was going.
Sensei (17:48)
⁓ Did you eat breakfast before the shoot?
Fatboi (17:51)
I did not. I did not.
It could be where my mind is trying to tell me. Hey man, you didn't eat.
Sensei (17:56)
Man, all right, you
can't podcast on an empty stomach fat.
Fatboi (18:01)
This is true.
Sensei (18:02)
All right. Booker T and the MG's Green Onions. Let's listen down from the top.
Fatboi (18:09)
This one, everybody, this one lick is so that right there, that lick.
That one lick, he found the space and made it work.
Sensei (18:24)
And it's... ⁓ it's just raw funkiness. It's one note. Every bar. That's crazy.
Fatboi (18:33)
And you know what's crazy?
Nobody had heard anything like that before it came out. And it took the world by storm.
Sensei (18:41)
No, this was
1962. This was forward thinking for the American public. That's what I saying in that Apollo 13. That's the song the astronauts are playing, the space capsule. And NASA's like, whoa, slow down with that crazy rock and roll fellas. It's the mainstream TV audience over here.
Fatboi (18:47)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
And, and, know, the funny thing about this, this record right here at the time, ⁓ the owner of Stax ⁓ I can't think of the lady's name at the moment. we'll get to it, but, she was looking for somebody to an executive that had the, the balls and the, the, relationships and the vision to carry Stax forward.
Sensei (19:30)
Vision.
Fatboi (19:35)
and
This record right here, he had never heard anything like this. First time he heard, he's like, oh my God, this is incredible. Record labels, not record labels, but radio stations, it up, ate it up.
Sensei (19:54)
Well, for one thing, there's no singing on this. It's organ and guitar with simple little melodies.
Fatboi (19:58)
no singing at all. And if it can keep your attention for that long, simple melodies.
And they didn't even have, the record took off so fast. had no, they weren't a group. They were just in the studio jamming.
Sensei (20:16)
Just some guys.
then I guess we're a group now.
Fatboi (20:19)
just
jamming and after that, okay, boom. The song is going places and okay, we have to make this a group thing and we have to come up with a name. And somebody suggested that the name be Booker T and something and somebody drove a car and the initials, the license plate on front of the car was MG and that's how they came with the title. That'll do Booker T and the MGs, the group was.
Sensei (20:40)
That's an MG. That'll do.
Fatboi (20:48)
was born at that moment and it came because this song was a runaway hit.
Sensei (20:53)
man, and it's just so tasty. there's
know,
organ and the guitar is maybe like five notes the whole time. But where they place the notes, the vibe, it just redefined what music could be.
Fatboi (21:12)
I think it had an attitude.
of the country and where the country was going. Like, you know, if you look in a lot ⁓ of ⁓ movies, a lot of period pieces, this song is one song that you hear in a lot of period pieces from the 60s and even the 70s. And it's always tied into an attitude. There's a, yeah, yeah.
Sensei (21:40)
Right, it's low-key rebellious.
Fatboi (21:46)
I'm gonna do it my way.
Sensei (21:48)
We're still wearing like a shirt and a tie, but maybe it's a little loose.
Fatboi (21:53)
Yeah.
Yeah. ⁓ There's a level of, I'm feeling myself. I'm feeling myself. Little swag, little swag. And Booker T talks about that, ⁓ was, know, it was, you know, cause it's minor, but it goes into major and then goes back into minor. And what was so great about it is the dynamic of
Sensei (22:00)
Yes, a little swag before that word came into usage. ⁓
Fatboi (22:21)
Stax was full of talented black artists and musicians, as well as white artists and musicians. And they all brought their own thing to the table. And because of that mixture where the black artists might bring that bluesy feel to it. Yeah, yeah. And the white guys would, know, for instance,
Sensei (22:42)
the pentatonic kind of scale stuff, yeah.
had
a different harmonic background they're used to, right? You know, or.
Fatboi (22:53)
they
would bring that element to it. And then you get a mesh that comes out like this. But it's something that nobody had. What is this? What is this?
Sensei (23:07)
Right. It's new to ⁓
everybody involved.
Fatboi (23:12)
It's new to everybody involved. And that was the greatness of Stax. It's because of the elements that they had in those four walls coming from different walks of life. And...
reaching a common goal. Something that I don't know what it is, but we're just in here jamming and we'll figure it out later.
Sensei (23:40)
And that song is basically a conversation between the organ and the guitar player.
Fatboi (23:45)
It is.
You hear the conversation. Yes, it is a conversation going on.
Sensei (23:54)
And it's a polite conversation, they're not talking over each other. They're listening to each other and responding and due course after thinking about it a little bit. And that's what I, I think that's why it just kind of sits in that pocket, you know?
Fatboi (24:04)
Yeah, it is.
It's
the perfect pocket. And ⁓ as a session musician, what separates the great session musicians from just guys that can play is finding these pockets. And we talked about this with Akathar. Same thing. Lukather, Akathar, where's my?
Sensei (24:31)
Mmm. Luke, Steve, Luke, sir. Yeah.
You guys start eating lunch for this thing.
Fatboi (24:38)
I got it. Yeah, I got it. I got to eat first.
Lucather, Acather, Lucather. We said the same thing with him. You know, these, they find the pockets and no matter how big or small it can be the small, like that one lick, that is two chords, but one lick in one specific spot.
Sensei (25:02)
Yeah, and finding the right place, listening, looking for your chance to say you're a little piece, but leaving room for everybody else to run this. That's what Steve Cropper embodied and probably informed guys like Steve Lukather, all the other studio greats of that coming after that is playing for the song. You could still shine, but the song has to be paramount. And when it does, it lasts for generations.
Fatboi (25:14)
Man.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah.
The song, the song will tell you what it wants to be. You just have to listen.
Sensei (25:33)
Mmm.
You got to tune in that radio frequency.
Fatboi (25:37)
Tune into that radio frequency. The guys that wanna shine so badly that they overplay the song, it's like they don't last. But the guys that find the, like these two chords speak volumes. Like it's almost the loudest part of the song.
Sensei (25:46)
They don't last. They don't last.
Yes.
Fatboi (26:05)
You know, it's the attitude. Yeah. It's the attitude of the song. It's almost like the dip in your walk. You know what saying? It's the...
Sensei (26:07)
Just a little counterpoint, just a little, you throw a job, I throw a cross, boom, you know?
Okay, I'm picking on what you're putting down there
Fatboi (26:33)
It's the cherry on top of your attitude.
Sensei (26:35)
Okay. And that lasts. And you can talk about it, but there's no substitute for hearing it in the song where it was placed by Mr. Cropper. it's perfection.
Fatboi (26:37)
the temperament that you're moving with.
Perfection perfection
Sensei (26:53)
We don't say that
word very often, you and I.
Fatboi (26:57)
Perfect. No, no, cause it's not a word that you can throw around loosely. It's not.
Sensei (27:00)
No, it's up
here. It's one of these levels up here. It's the level. It's out of the shot.
Fatboi (27:04)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll
use perfect imperfections more than we use perfection.
Sensei (27:11)
Yes. Well, but
you know that that once in a while everything, the universe aligns and everything is kind of and but but you have to be receptive to it. You have to play for the song. You have to be a team player. You have to be listening as you're playing. All these things just have to align. It doesn't happen often. And people will chase that over and over again, but it just has to be.
Fatboi (27:20)
⁓ Everything aligned right here in this moment.
Yes.
No.
Yeah.
And this being in that moment when that song was being constructed, everybody in the building was already like, my God, what is this? You know, and the guys playing it. Now, these are people that are passersby in the building. It's caught the whole building's attention.
But the whole building is like, I don't know what this is, but this is the greatest thing I've ever heard to this point. And the guys playing in that moment, can imagine, wow, they're playing, they're like, what the fuck is this?
Sensei (28:23)
Well, and here's the thing, man. You can't plan for this. You can't say, today I will write a song that lasts for generations. It does not work that
Fatboi (28:34)
That's why I always say, ⁓ I never like when somebody, yeah, I'm going in studio to make a hit today. No, it never works. Hits happen. You don't make them. Hits happen. Yeah, you caught it.
Sensei (28:47)
Yes. It's lightning in a bottle. You can
you can set up your lightning machine and put the electrodes here and the wires here, but you don't know what's going to happen when you throw the switch. It won't. Will it go in the bottle today? I don't know. It's unpredictable like that.
Fatboi (28:57)
and never catch it. Nope, nope, nope, nope, Yeah. We don't
make hits, hits happen. Now we, after the fact, yeah, we say, yeah, I made a hit. But when I was making said hit, I wasn't making a hit. I was making, I was trying to make a good record. I was trying to make a good song. That's it.
Sensei (29:23)
that's the most anyone can do. You can plan to like set up the elements
like you need. You can get your guitar in tune. You can get the board turned on. You can calibrate the speakers. But beyond that, you know, it just, it just has to happen.
Fatboi (29:39)
It has to happen. Everybody out there. Hits happen. They happen to be a hit. Hits happen. You don't make them.
Sensei (29:53)
Now the flip side of that is they happen when everything is prepared. Everybody is prepared. Everybody has put the 10,000 hours in at least to be prepared, to be receptive for that lightning whenever it shall strike. That's when it happens. There are always happy accidents. They're always serendipitous.
Fatboi (29:54)
You make them after, but.
You know, to the James Brown ⁓ drummer, ⁓ funky drummer, Clyde, funky drummer, Stubblefield, ⁓ the one failed record James Brown ever had was funky drummer. Clyde Stubblefield hated that record. He hated that record, but it became
a hit later on in life because hip hop embraced it so much. It's one of the most sampled records. Yes, it's foundational. at the time, know, James Brown had, you know, ⁓ planted his seed and made his mark in what he does. But that was the first time that he really just gave the drummer his
Sensei (30:53)
It's foundational.
Fatboi (31:17)
We're going to give everybody on this song their shine. And it just so happened, Clyde, when Clyde did that part and James broke it down, ⁓ forever it is what it is. But he hates that record. In this case right here, everybody loved this record. You don't know when you're making it.
Sensei (31:36)
That's what you don't even know when you're making a hit.
Like, it's not up to you.
Fatboi (31:45)
Yeah, you don't know. ⁓ I did, ⁓ when I was making Wasted, 10 minutes into it, I knew this was going somewhere. I did, ⁓ yeah. That's one of the few records of mine that I can call that, yeah, this got potential. I didn't say it was a all out hit, but I did...
Sensei (31:56)
Okay.
Fatboi (32:14)
feel like there's something special about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't call it a hit until after it was completely done and I sat with it ⁓ maybe a week. And then I came back to the realization of, hey, this is a hit. Cause I can listen to my own record a million times.
Sensei (32:15)
You know there was something special happening here, yeah.
which I gotta tell you, when I leave the studio, man, I need silence. I've done like 10 hour car rides, like, no, we don't need the radio on. just, I need to not hear music for a while.
Fatboi (32:45)
Exactly.
And this is how I knew, because I could still listen to it. I could bypass my silent phase and still listen to this and wake up the next morning, listen to it, and it elevated. Next morning, it elevated. The song is still getting better. To me, I created it.
Sensei (33:04)
Like, like you want to live in that,
you want to live in that song's universe.
Fatboi (33:08)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's one of the few songs of mine that I called out after it was done. the Ella Mae record, I kind of called that while Angel was writing it. ⁓ I kind of took a minute and turned around and said, hey, Angel, this is out of here. You know, it's kind of, you know, what... But I think that's because me being a DJ, I kind of pick up on...
things a little quicker in regards. But I am also realistic when it comes to my, know, I realize everything I do is not gonna be a hit. I know that. And a lot of artists think everything they do is a hit. And the records that they hated the most end up being their biggest records a lot of time. ⁓ it's been a couple of records.
in my catalog that I knew they were something could be special. Not a hit. I wasn't calling it a hit, but I heard the potential in it. know, so yeah, that, that, that, you know, but every time I've gone in the studio and said, I'm going to make a hit today, I never made a hit.
Sensei (34:28)
You're just cursing yourself.
Fatboi (34:30)
Yeah, I never made it here.
Sensei (34:32)
The universe doesn't like stuff like that.
Fatboi (34:36)
Yeah, always sitting back like, yeah, hold my beer. Yeah, yeah. The universe has a plethora of ways of humbling you.
Sensei (34:38)
You shall be punished for your arrogance, child of the universe.
Yes, well that's exactly. Well, not only that, helicopter landed on your car out in the parking lot.
Fatboi (34:51)
You're not gonna tell me I'm not gonna make a hit. ⁓
Yeah.
Sensei (35:04)
That's another story.
let's check out Sam and Dave's Soul Man. This is the one we're talking about where Steve gets his moment in the song.
Here we go. Soul man.
Fatboi (35:15)
And all these records are in the 60s, man.
This is 60s. These are precursors going into the 70s. This stuff, the stack stuff led up to the 70s stuff. That's crazy.
Sensei (35:52)
There you go, Steve Cropper.
Fatboi (35:56)
He had to put the soul in it.
Sensei (36:03)
Now, this song was so huge. It was a hit movie. In the eighties, early nineties, remember this?
Fatboi (36:12)
Blues Brothers.
Sensei (36:13)
Well, Blues Brothers, and there was that whole Soul Man where the white guy pretends to be black to go to college. This is part of our lexicon. Play it, Steve. Just that two notes, three notes, whatever.
Fatboi (36:19)
Oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Sensei (36:35)
But this song was actually Blues Brothers' biggest hit. So the young people don't know, but Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi branched off of Silent Live with a tribute to the the soul era Stax Records and actually got Steve Cropper and Donald Dunn from the M.G.'s in their band in the movie.
Fatboi (36:43)
Yeah.
Sensei (37:05)
actually toured. It was like a whole cultural phenomenon like in the early 80s.
Fatboi (37:13)
And see, Sam and Dave at that time.
Sam and Dave was the flagship of Stax. Those guys were man, they were powerful man. And Atlantic basically pushed them from up under Stax.
Stax was distributed by Atlantic for a while, but there was language in the contract that the executive at Stax overlooked, this language that gets buried deep in contracts, and ⁓ it was nothing they could do about it in Atlantic. Sam and Dave was offloaded to Atlantic and...
Sensei (38:06)
You know, this is the corollary we're talking about paying your dues. Sometimes you pay dues, you work for somebody, you invest in a project, your sweat equity, then they leave and go get a better situation and that's just part of the dues, right? That's the blues of music production.
Fatboi (38:25)
⁓ that's the
blues of it. And one thing I want to say about all these guys in that building, ⁓
All these players, they had so many great players. The players became groups in that building.
with Booker T and the MGs, he was a part of that group. He became a part of that group. The Barkay's ⁓ was another, they became the Barkay's, but they were another backing ⁓ group, players. the, yeah.
Sensei (39:06)
Like studio guys that, all right, y'all
are group now, cause this is too good to ignore. Let's work out the business, you know?
Fatboi (39:10)
Too good,
too good. And ⁓ I'm sure you remember the movie, ⁓ Dan Aykroyd and Bill Murray, Stripes. No, no, no, not Stripes, not Stripes, before Stripes. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, they kinda did a follow-up to this movie with Stripes.
Sensei (39:29)
Sorry.
not Ghostbusters.
Fatboi (39:37)
No, no, no, no. It's before, before, before Ghostbusters. But there, there's a, ⁓ there's a scene in the movie where they sneak up on the Russians and all that. And the Russians are listening to...
I just remember that song. It was just funky, but that's the Barkay's and that was Stax Records.
Sensei (39:57)
And even the Russians knew about that during the Cold War.
Fatboi (40:00)
Even the Russians know about it. And that's
another song that had no lyrics. Stax was famous for their musicians were so jamming that they were putting out songs with no top line to it. No words. And these songs were having an impact on the world. That was another one of those songs that just had that impact. But
Sensei (40:16)
No words. No words.
Fatboi (40:28)
I remembered that because I learned about that song from Stripes. From watching Stripes as a kid.
Sensei (40:34)
Wait, wait,
Okay, maybe this is a memory thing. It might be spies like us. Dan Aykroyd and Chevy Chase.
Fatboi (40:41)
That's what it is. Spies like us.
It's Chevy, Dan Aykroyd and Chevy Chase. That's who it is. Yeah.
Sensei (40:49)
And this was after Ghostbusters
and that stuff. Man, we old, I can't remember all this crap.
Fatboi (40:54)
Hold on,
spies like us was after Ghostbusters? It's before. I was younger. I was younger.
Sensei (40:58)
Yeah, but it was after the first one. It might've been before the second one. It was definitely after
the first one.
Fatboi (41:06)
After Ghostbusters?
Sensei (41:09)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure. It was like 85, 86, I'm pretty sure. All right, well, I'm gonna look it up now. Ghostbusters came out 84, one spy is like, oh, that's cool. Yeah.
Fatboi (41:12)
I just, hold on, when did the first Ghostbusters come out?
Ghostbusters came on 84?
84?
Sensei (41:21)
Yeah, bro. We're old. Spies like us.
Fatboi (41:26)
Spies like us was after?
Sensei (41:29)
85. Yeah, I knew it was already out.
Sorry, that was just 40 years ago. Don't worry, kids, this will happen to you too if all falls into place. More time has elapsed since then than had elapsed since Sam and Dave and Booker T and the M.G.'s had existed before Blues Brothers and Ghostbusters. That's how long this music has lasted.
Fatboi (41:56)
Yep. And.
Jazzy Faye's father is an original member of the Barkay's. Jazzy Faye's father is an original member of the Barkay's and the majority of the Barkay's group died with Sam Cooke because they were his touring, they were his touring band. Or is that Otis Redding?
Otis Redding on the plane.
Sensei (42:28)
⁓ man, yeah. Plants? Plants are pretty dangerous.
Fatboi (42:33)
Yes, especially for touring artists.
Sensei (42:36)
Yeah,
was, things have come a long way on that front. I they still have plane crash, but not like they used to have in the 70s. was just, speaking of, Oris Redding, I wanna play this one more song at least, cause this is literally one of my first songs I ever learned. Let me see I can find it here. And I'm not gonna tell you what it is until I find it. But you'll know.
Fatboi (42:43)
Yeah.
I've been loving you.
Sensei (43:03)
Nope, but it's one that Mr. Steve Carper co-wrote.
Fatboi (43:09)
Uh-huh.
Sensei (43:10)
Literally one of the first songs I ever learned on guitar, ⁓ Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay, co-written by Steve Cropper and Mr. Otis Redding.
Fatboi (43:15)
seen on the dark of the bay.
Man.
Sensei (44:05)
Tasty little licks right in there.
He's just kind of tracing the chords with these nice little licks.
Fatboi (44:25)
Okay.
Sensei (44:33)
Just a little bit of dissonance right there. Give you that.
Fatboi (44:35)
Yep, yep. That bottom
chord, yep.
Sensei (44:39)
Just a little bit.
Fatboi (44:40)
Yep. And then, oh, and then, hey.
Sensei (44:42)
and then resolves it.
is that minor major thing you're talking about.
Fatboi (44:48)
Yep.
Sensei (44:52)
Also, he's voicing. He's got like the third of the chord in the bottom. Instead of the root, like a lot of guitar players would do, it's a smaller voicing, but it fits in with everybody else. He's not doing what the bass player is doing. That's tasty.
Fatboi (44:59)
Mmm.
Right.
He finds the man, his ability to find that pocket man, uncanny.
Sensei (45:23)
It's not just the notes and the tension, it's the rhythm and the placement. There's that little bit of dissonance. And then he resolves it at the end of the phrase.
Fatboi (45:42)
Mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm
Sensei (45:58)
So with that man, I have to just to say rest in peace to mr. Steve Crapper and all the musicians he played with that are no longer with us, but you know that You know Talking about taking to yeah taking it to that level But just those three son, man, you and I just sat here and felt those emotions just going back over it You know, that's what's beautiful about music and that's when you know, you have something special
Fatboi (45:59)
Wow. ⁓ man, that's...
Yeah, man, that's, that's,
That place man.
and
Sensei (46:28)
It takes that emotion with you 60 years later.
Fatboi (46:32)
Later, man. And all these songs are older than us, but they still had an impact on us. However we discovered these songs or found out about these songs, it was going to find its way to us because great music doesn't have a shelf life. It doesn't have an expiration date. Forever, it will be a great record.