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Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.
The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.
Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.
With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.
Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.
Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.
You can find Kenny at The Strength Club, his private training and group strength training facility in the heart of Manhattan located on 28th and 5th Ave in New York City.
All right. Welcome back to another episode of the Strong New York podcast. I'm your host, Kenny Santucci, and today I have a very good friend of mine. We've been friends for quite some time. Very knowledgeable guy in everything in the, uh, health and wellness space. So we're gonna pick his brain today.
Without further ado, my man, Dr. Pat Davison. Good to see you again. It's been a while. I know. It has been a while. Yeah. So you look fantastic. Thank you. When I first met Dr. Pat, um, he was a little on the thicker side, but not as, not as, yeah. Muscular. Yeah. Yeah. So give us a little bit of, uh, about your transformation.
Sure. Well, I think, you know, I, I competed in a few different weight class sports in younger years. Mm-hmm. You know, I did, uh, juujitsu, Nogi and MMA and generally, like in the one. 1 59 or 1 54 and a half weight classes. Mm-hmm. So I spent plenty of time, you know, being lean and down in those weight, those weights to be able to compete there.
And then, uh, and that was, uh, in my 20 early twenties, you know, 19 to 24, 25. Then, um, you know, I didn't compete in anything until I got into my thirties and I got kind of brought into strongman competition and I competed at 1 75 in that. So also, you know, getting very lean for that, I moved down to New York, uh, and was kind of thinking about continuing with strongman, but in all honesty, I was like, uh, kind of going broke my first year here.
Mm-hmm. You know, the promises that were made about how much money I was gonna earn didn't come true. And, uh, it was either rent or, you know, competing. Mm-hmm. And I had to go with like, trying to make rent. So, uh, once I stopped competing. You know, I got married like within a year and a half after that and like, was just comfortable.
And I think, uh, you know, I still trained, I always trained hard, but like I would order in a lot, eat whatever. I wasn't focused on anything body composition wise and just that gradual creep of getting fatter over time took place. And, you know, I got up to like a soft 2 35, you know, while we were at hype.
Mm-hmm. Like towards the, you know, January, 2020 time period. Like right before C-O-V-I-D-I was like 2 35 soft, 2 35 and I knew I was too fat the first time I got called Fat Davidson on the internet. And uh, that'll do it to you. Right? That'll get you, yeah. Something like that. Does that give you fuel or does that like fuel Offend You?
Fuel. Fuel, right. Well, I was pissed, you know? Yeah. Like, but like, and Vinny was calling me Patty mayonnaise, so, you know, it was like, and I was like, dude, I've been leaner than all of you guys. Okay. Like, don't, don't poke me. Like I'll do this. Yeah. Like, you have no idea how crazy this brain is. Like, oh, I, I could tell.
I'll go there. Yeah. You know? Um, so I, you know, I started kind of on the, like, COVID made something in me snap a little bit too. I was just so pissed off about the way that people acted and sort of the general fear that I felt was like the population. And like, I just didn't like it. I was like, I don't wanna be part of this.
Mm-hmm. This, this zeitgeist. So I went the opposite direction and trained harder and dieted. And, uh, I got in really good shape during COVI particularly like outdoor running at the track. Um, and it just started this process of actually paying attention to nutrition again, training even harder. Mm-hmm. And after a couple of years being like, you know.
I'm actually looking pretty good here. Like I feel like I could probably step on a bodybuilding stage and uh, it was like, you know what? I'm not gonna think maybe, or what if or any of that stuff. I'm gonna just do it. And so that was about three years ago now. 43. Mm-hmm. Uh, 46 now. So it's like three years of bodybuilding.
Yeah. And, uh, you know, drugs work too. Like, I don't like to give this portrayal like, oh, this is a natural transformation for sure. This last three years has been drugs and like you can clearly see in the timeline, like when drugs entered into the picture. Mm-hmm. Like I, I was lean around 180 5 at like 42 and then, you know, drugs enter in that 42 to 43 transition point and then it's like lean over 200 pounds with the eight of peds.
That's why I brought it up because I just got back from the Arnold. And some of these guys look incredible. They're all natty vegans there. Right. It's just, it's it, somebody had said it's the, uh, biggest collection of insecure people on the planet, Uhhuh. Um, but no, I mean, listen, you look at some of these guys and as somebody who's been in the gym space for a long time, I'm there and I did one, like a kind of deadlift competition while I was there and I'm walking around, I'm looking at all these people and they look incredible.
I know, and I've known this since I was a kid because I worked out for so long, that some of those, all those physiques are unobtainable. Mm-hmm. Unless you take drugs. And that's what I want to kind of clear up today because I wanted to chat with you about it. 'cause I know you're very knowledgeable, obviously.
Yeah. You're a doctor. You've done a ton of different sports. Yep. You've played in all these different arenas, so you have a better view of it and you're, you give an honest opinion and that's why I want to you, because so many people are afraid to talk about it. When you first started doing it? Mm-hmm.
Like what's the, what's the gateway drug? The actual gateway drug? The first thing, like if somebody's gonna start taking stuff because Yeah. I got, I got crucified last year 'cause I was asking, um, Alex Eubanks, who's like a big body kid, bodybuilder, younger guy. He's like 23, 24, something like that. And I asked him, I was like, oh, so you're naty.
'cause his whole thing was he's naty and then he started, said he started taking testosterone. And I go, okay. What's your advice to other younger people who are using the ship? Because the entire place, 300,000 people there, I'd say half of them, or even more than half, are under the age of 30. Mm-hmm. And they're all using shit.
Right? Yeah. You know, one, I know your opinion on it. I know you probably say, Hey, probably shouldn't do anything. Till you get to a certain age of responsibility. However, there is this sport that mm-hmm. You know, these guys are making a ton of money off of Yeah. Yeah. You're making a ton of promotion. What's, what's the gateway drug or like, what's the safest way to do this?
How does somebody engage in this if they want to do it? I would say that the best thing is to get a coach that's been coaching people. Now, it's hard because I think that there's a lot of bodybuilding coaches we're bullshit that pretty uneducated and they'll just bomb you with drugs. Mm-hmm. So it's hard to discern who, like a really good coach is.
Like, I, I think like in the bodybuilding space, like there's some people that are very smart and reputable and have character like John Ewt, for instance. Mm-hmm. Is such a smart bodybuilder and he has such a great education framework. Like, I, I think that, like, you know, if you look into his stuff and it, I, what I like about it is it's, it's well framed for like.
Mass consumption in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. You know, so you'll get a basic education on the concepts while learning how to do it in the process. Like he's got, you know, coursework that you could take to be able to become educated on how to do it. Anyone that's a good coach is going to ask you to get blood work done.
Mm-hmm. They're going to take a look at where you are. They're going to generally start with, you know, a modest dose of intervention. In the beginning it's usually some kind, you know, testosterone is always used. It's like a baseline. Yes. It's kind of the backbone of whatever cycle or course you're giving to somebody.
Would you say that like, there's no point in even taking any of the other stuff if you're not on some level of testosterone? Uh, that's a good question. I, I, I don't know anyone that's. Done that. That's like a smart person. Yeah. That's gotten great results. Okay. You know, I think so. That is the testosterone's always there.
Yeah. You know, uh, but it, it, most of the people that I listen to aren't saying to bump testosterone super high. Mm-hmm. It's usually like, have it at a, a decent dose. Mm-hmm. And then generally go with, uh, the DHT pathway drugs as the ones that you're going to drive your milligrams higher with. Yeah. So things like mast on or primo are the ones where it's like if you're going to drive higher milligrams and you know, more powerful stuff, that's where you tend to lean on, you know, putting more substance into your body with Yeah.
Because they don't have. Oftentimes as many of the side effects that are as pronounced as what you'll get from really high levels of testosterone. Yeah. But that being said, you always default to the blood work and actually seeing what's happening in your body as a result of taking these chemicals. Yeah.
There's uh, a lot of kids, I know there's a lot of guys who are taking s SARMs. Yeah. What is that? And you know, why, why does, why is it so popular amongst younger people? So it's a selective androgen receptor modulator. So testosterone or any other steroid by itself doesn't do anything in the body. Okay.
It's a chemical that's, you know, testosterone and every other sex hormone is derived from cholesterol, which means it's fat based and it travels through the blood. It. Goes from the blood into a cell, and then inside the cell it has to bind to an androgen receptor. And that's usually on the outside the envelope of the nucleus.
And then the hormone receptor complex will migrate inside the nucleus and it will act on the DNA to modulate and modify the expression of DNA, like the, the codes for protein inside the DNA so that you produce those proteins at the, uh, at the ribosome. So, uh, all of your sex hormones go through the cell membrane act on a receptor that's on the nuclear envelope.
And then that combo of hormone and receptor is the activated ingredient that causes the downstream effects that would ultimately lead to more protein expression. So I mean, for everybody and myself at home who's like, okay, that was a lot. Yeah. Um. How is that actually making you bigger? Because I, I'm on testosterone.
Yeah. And everybody's like, oh, that makes you jacked. I'm like, no. Testosterone's more for the recovery factor. Correct. So again, like testosterone doesn't do anything until it binds to the receptor. Mm-hmm. And a sarm is something that modifies the number of receptors that are available. Okay. So if you have more receptors, now there's more places for the testosterone to bind to and it can turn into its active form and actually do what testosterone does that people like.
Yeah. Which is help you grow size. Yeah. Now there's so many, there are so many different things out there that people are, when we were growing up, yep. You told somebody you were on testosterone or some type of steroids. It's, it was, you're gonna die Lyle Zeto Cancer. Like, it, it was, it just had a very negative, uh, outlook on it.
But nowadays, I mean, the amount of. Housewives that I train who are like, Hey, should I take some peptides? Mm-hmm. What do you think if I started taking a low dose of testosterone? It's, I mean, it's out there. People are talking about it. So I just want people to be as educated as possible on it so that they're not like doing something because everybody wants to just order it off the internet.
I go, hold on. I think you should go see a doctor. I think you go see a reputable company that, you know, administers this the right way. Don't just order it or buy it from some guy in the locker room or something. Right, right, right. I think it's, I think first of all, most doctors are less than useless when it comes to this stuff.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like they won't even order you the right blood labs. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, why would you want anything other than like your LDL? Like, well, because there's more stuff going on. Okay. They don't wanna listen to you. They don't want to hear it. They're just like cheapskates when it comes to labs for no reason as far as can, because you're paying for it anyway.
Yeah. Uh, they don't know. Ass about actual these substances, the effects of them, anything they're, they're clueless about it. Mm-hmm. So they're not, I wouldn't consider any MD unless they have direct use and experience with it to be a credible person on this. So it's, I think it's hard, like you have to find someone who's smart as you're in.
That's your in. Yeah. Is, you have to find, and hopefully it's the right person, you know? Well, for me, I always felt that, I mean, and this happened years ago when I was dealing with all my back issues, was to find somebody who's actually been through it, or who works out, or who's used it before. Yep. So that they could give you an educated, firsthand point of view on like what you're trying to do or what you're trying to get outta this and how they could guide you through it.
Because I think everybody's gonna have a different response. Right. Arnold Schwartzenegger has been taking steroids since the seventies. Yeah. How many guys in wrestling and pro sports and movies have used steroids and dropped dead? Mm-hmm. Doing the same shit. It's, it's hard to, you know, like, I think that there are other factors, like, I don't think that, for the most part, steroids are generally the thing that's going to kill you.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Obviously, if you're taking grams and grams and grams per week all the time, that could be a, a, a different story. Like just an outrageous dose by itself could be a huge problem. But there's other things that go along with this, like, people that just lift weights and take steroids that live a sedentary life outside of that, that's a big problem.
Mm-hmm. You know, like if you're not doing cardio, if you're not, if you're being a sedentary human being like. Being a sedentary human being, period. Like hard stop by itself is probably the worst thing you could do for your health. Mm-hmm. So, you know, and, and some of these guys, you know, you get guys that are up over 300 pounds, like they're, they're in A BMI category that's beyond super obese.
You know, running a system that's that large is costly and if you have poor cardiovascular health and high blood pressure on top of it, you're just as at risk as an obese person. Sure. You know, it's not that different. Well, because your heart is still the same size, so it's gotta pump blood to all this mass.
Yeah. You know, I would say like if you are really on top of your cardiovascular fitness, if your diet is good, it's like all the other things that always have to be in play to be a healthy human being. For sure. If those things are not in play and you're just blasting gear and lifting weights, you're probably going to have some adverse health conditions.
Yeah. And, and also a lot of guys are taking recreational drugs on top of it. They're out partying, they're not sleeping much again. Like it's, it's all of the same things where if you weren't taking drugs would be health problems. Uhhuh. It's just that the guys taking drugs and it gets blamed on the steroids.
It's like the, going back to COVID, a lot of deaths were called COVID based deaths, even though they had nothing to do. A friend of mine worked at the morgue in Austin, Texas, and she was telling me that a body came in and she unzipped the bag and the head was in the arm because the person got decapitated and a car crash and it was labeled as a COVID death.
So it's like, you know, that's the aggressive, it's the same thing like, was it the COVID that cut off the guy's head? No, but like it's a COVID death. Same thing. Like this is a, basically a obese person on bmi mm-hmm. Who also was taking steroids. It's a steroid death. No, it's like a sedentary. Overweight, poor cardiovascular health death.
Yeah. Now, do you think that there is a world that we live in that people can safely take a lot of this stuff? Like you have the extremes, like somebody like Rich Piana, right? Yeah. Was clearly, that's kind of what I'm talking about too. Yeah. Yeah. Was clearly doing so much more than is necessary getting to freakiest sizes.
You look at the stage, I was just at the Arnold, you look at the stage and you got the guys who are the classic physique guys, and then you got the, uh, the guys who wear the board shorts, whatever the fuck. Yeah. But physique. Physique, yeah. And then you have open the open class. Yeah. You know, you have three different body types.
Can you see a world where like, you, you can manage taking drugs for a lifetime or for most of your life and not affect you? Because I feel like the open class and the, and the class of physique. Those guys are running so much shit. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's just too much. Right. I'm, I don't know anybody who's, I mean, I guess there are guys like Jay Cutler and, you know, I, I'd love to know what your thoughts are on like, what happened to Ronnie Coleman and Wayne.
Mm-hmm. But I mean, you got so many guys who just have shriveled up. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'd say Jay Cutler's probably one of the only guys who still keeps a little mass on him. Yeah. But for the rest, for the most, for the most part. I mean, I see so many guys, they're all half their size. Yeah. I, I think that generally speaking, the, the fears that were driven into us in the eighties and the nineties were largely overblown in terms of like, steroids are gonna kill you.
Yeah. You know what I mean? But that was kind of that era. It was almost like, yeah, the first time you do cocaine, you're gonna jump out of a window and die. You know, it's like, so there was a dramatic. Uh, narrative around drugs back then. Mm-hmm. And like a very kind of taboo, don't do it, or you're gonna die kind of a thing.
And you know, the truth is that it's not that. Yeah. It's, it's more, I'd say again, like creeping lifestyle problems, the same as the rest of the population is what gets people into trouble. Mm-hmm. You know, nobody wants to do cardio. Nobody wants to get off their ass and do their steps. Instead, you could sit on the couch and watch tv if you're active and you're getting your cardio in, you know, you're, you're eliminating most of the problems.
You know, aerobic fitness is usually the big tell. Uh, if people are getting winded after going up one flight of stairs to the point where they can't really talk, it's like, okay, this is not good. Right. If it's only like that for a very short period of the year where you're in the peak of massing, it's like understandable.
Like, okay, like, you know, you'll, that'll get better as you drop some weight. Yeah, but it's, if it's permanent, if you're just living there, then it's a really bad thing. And, and again, like, uh, I drop the name John Ewt again because I feel like he's so on top of things and has such an intelligent approach to it.
You know, he's somebody that's clearly running a lot of gear but is constantly measuring his blood pressure. He is constantly evaluating health metrics, stays on top of his aerobics stays, is not sedentary. And he's probably healthier than 99% of the population. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I don't think he's cutting his life dramatically short as a result of using enough drugs to be an elite open bodybuilder.
Do you think that, you know, one of the conversations I've had with a couple people, you know, there's um, there's a belief system that we have a finite amount of heartbeats and no matter what we do, right? Like you take somebody, my uncle perfect examples, 82 years old, smoke cigars, drinks, yep. Every day guy's, 82 years old.
He lived a better, happier, healthier life than my dad who's dead. My other uncle who's dead, my aunt who's might as well be because she's got dementia and everything else. Yep. He was the biggest degenerate out of all his brothers and sisters. And he's still alive, right? What do they say? Only the good die young.
I guess so. I guess so. I mean, it's really hard to know. Like genetics is the biggest driving factor for how long you're going to live. Mm-hmm. Okay. But then you have lifestyle things that, that go on top of that. Uh, and then there's just the luck of life. But we were just talking about like somebody like Rick Flair.
Yeah. Ozzy Osborne. Yep. Uh, you know, um, the Rolling Stones, like these guys fucking burned the candle at both ends. Yeah. The fact that some of these, do you think there's, there's actually something to push in the body that far, that it almost like pickles it in a way or like Bulletproofs. I, uh, you know, I, I think that it's just so complex where it's, it's like there's no answer that's ever going to be apparent as the answer.
Mm-hmm. You know, I think there's a lot of answers. Like when it comes to the, your overall health and like the longevity angle, I think that there's a few variables that matter. Okay. Like, I think the amount of muscle tissue that you have matters. I think your aerobic fitness matters. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then there's like the other ones like social life, sense of purpose.
Those things are, are really powerful factors as well. Yeah. They're a little harder to measure, but like, if you are a Mick Jagger, you got a pretty robust social life and you have a sense of purpose. Like, there's people that are always like, you're the guy, you know, it's like, Hey, we need to go on tour. We need to do this thing.
Like, there's always a sense of importance about you. Sure. And there's no way to really measure that. You know, like it's very hard. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that when that's lost in someone's life, it's just like this real dark hole that you kind of go and spiral down into. And it's almost like, why am I here?
What's the point of life this sucks? And like that's a sure way path towards like Yeah. A quicker exit. I think that might even be some sort of subconscious thing, because I used to work at a shipping yard in Jersey Uhhuh when I was a kid. And when I got there, I was like 17, 18 years old. And every year since the day I got there to the day I left was, there was always somebody retiring there.
There's always an older guy who retired and within two to six months they're dead. Yeah. Because they, they literally worked this job their whole life. 30, 40, 50 years, they're at this job, they never want to leave. Now the company's like, Hey buddy. Yep. Time for you to fucking get the hell outta here. Like some guys were like shitting their pants on the job.
Yeah. And they're like, it's time for you to leave. These guys end up leaving and they're dead in a couple months. Yep. Because I feel like they don't have a purpose no point anymore. Yeah. Yeah. I think that the insides of, you have an awareness of this. Yeah. It's like the way that, you know, salmon, after they go through their reproductive processes, like there's a trigger, a code genetically where they die a week after they, you know, they swim and they die in a pool altogether of like eight different kinds of cancer that they give themselves because their purpose is over.
They just reproduced by you're done. And that's like genetically kind of wired into that organism. It clears the way for the next generation to come through. So, you know, there is like, humans have evolved to live longer, you know? Uh, people are, people always crack me up. They, there's a thought that like primitive humans that lived in hunter gatherer societies didn't live long, you know?
Oh, they only lived to, no, they lived very long. If, if they made it through the first year of life or childbirth, they lived into their eighties, nineties. Yeah. Uh, you know, and so we evolved the need for grandparents. And the reason is because our children are in a childhood for longer than pretty much any other species.
They're a pain in the ass. If you're an adult, if you and I are there, we can't waste our physicality on child rearing. Like we have to go out and hunt and bring back calories, alright? Mm-hmm. Grandparents need to exist to be able to deal with kids while the adult prime humans are doing their tasks to really provide the calories and keep everybody alive a need for.
I mean, I've never heard of pull at that. I, yeah, I mean, it's so true because you look at a lot of, uh. Older societies, I mean, Indians and you know, I, I watch a lot of history channel stuff, and there's always this need for the village to raise the children. Yeah. 'cause that middle group, right. The parents have to go out and do what needs to, it's be done farming's time.
We need to be productive. Yeah. Hunter and gathering. Um, we can't bring screaming kids out when we're trying to catch prey. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and they're gonna give you away. Uh, so I mean, there's a, there was a demand for kids to, to grow up faster. For sure. And like when you're a teen, maybe, and you know, in your twenties you're the most you capable.
Right. Um, yeah. It's pretty interesting. Who are some other people, you said, uh, John, but who's, who are some other people that people should pay attention to who could kind of guide them through a lot of that Yeah. Process. Like, one of the people I admire and I always have questions for is, uh, you know, Ben Koski.
Yes. I love. And I constantly have questions for him. 'cause he's pretty knowledgeable on the space. Right. He likes sharing the information. So I haven't personally worked with him. Yeah. I know him. I've, I've spoken with him before. Yeah. But, you know, I, I don't doubt your input on him. Mm-hmm. But I, I, I don't have the personal experience to know, you know, how he coaches or anything like that.
Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, my coach is MEChA Bala. I, I love him. I think he's great. Mm-hmm. Um, how'd you find him? I, I, I found him through like the Renaissance Periodization network. Okay. So kind of like their cousin wing is a team. Evil GSP. Okay. Um, and that's Bro Chavez. And MEChA was Broderick's, like main other coach.
And Broderick is like, he's a drug coach. So Broderick is also like as good as it gets in terms of finding someone that understands pharmacology and processes involved. And Tia's, you know, been under Broder for such a long time and he's brilliant on his own and has learned his own things outside of that as well.
So, you know, all of those guys are people that I know on a personal level that are outstanding in this realm. Yeah. Like Nick, Dr. Dr. Mike, all those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, with that, you know, there are so many guys who are, uh, you know, claiming to be experts online. There's so many people who are like, Hey, you know, do my program and I'll teach you all this science-based lifting.
Now, the other night I was watching a video, a lead priest. Yeah. Arguably one of the greatest bodybuilders, maybe the most muscular guy that's ever stepped on stage yet. I remember. Reading a magazine as a high school kid, I literally, I had just taken it from um, uh, this little like news stand by my high school and I'm sitting in the cafeteria.
I got my feet up and I'm reading this article and he was, he was 310 pounds at one point. Yeah. He would bulk up. So big, big. Yeah. Yeah. He would bulk up so big. He had the biggest arms. There's all these people who are like, Hey, I could teach it a science-based lift, but how much of the physique does it, is it genetics or like what you could actually look like versus actually spot treating things?
Yeah. 'cause I don't believe in the spot treat. Right, right. Like I, I, I just find it hard to believe, like, yes can. If I train my shoulders more, obviously my shoulders are gonna get better. Yeah. But like, everybody's like, oh, I'm gonna do these weird fucking cable pulls or something. But you look at these guys, they just did raw, like, I mean, you look at Arnold train, you look at Jay Cutler train, you look at Ronnie Coleman.
They're just doing mass building exercise. Mm-hmm. They were squatted, they deadlift, they bent over road. They just did pretty simple shit. When people are like, this is what Ronnie Coleman got wrong. I'm like, I don't think he got anything wrong. Right, right, right. I think he hit the fucking nail on the head.
Yeah. Right. You know, so I think, uh, I think that there are, like, you have to do, you can't grow your arms by squatting. Okay. Like, start with that. Yeah. Yeah. Like you, the exercise has to stimulate the part of the body. For the part of the body to, to grow, have the potential to respond and grow. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Uh, like everything is about, you know, I wanna stimulate a region so that I create a cascade, so that I take food that I eat and convert it into tissue right here. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I have to do something that signals the DNA. In the muscles here to increase the amount of protein synthesis that they're starting and the, I need to influence the ribosome to build the protein.
Mm-hmm. Alright. So I, I can't get around the scientific fundamentals of, you know, Watson and Crick. Alright. Like you have a environmental signal that comes in, that signal modifies the DNA's behavior. I synthesize more RNA, which goes out to the ribosome, and the ribosome makes more protein. And then I let I layer that protein into the tissues, and now I have more of that protein, that, that is the fundamentals of what we're talking about.
Mm-hmm. And either that process is on or it's off, it's on or it's off. So it's like, are some exercises going to stimulate more? Probably. Okay. Uh, how much of a difference does it make? Unknown. Okay. Um, ultimately it's, it's like, it, it's like I pictured as like a blender, okay? Mm-hmm. And there's a lot of ingredients that go into the blender to make a good shake in the end.
Alright? And then giving credit to any singular ingredient is, is hard to do. Okay? Like, I want to have the good end product. And was it the spinach, the blueberries, the protein powder? Like, which can, you know, like all of those things have to be in there in some way, shape, or form to make a good end result.
Yeah. So there's training, there's nutrition, there's sleep, there's drugs, there's. Your mindset. There's all of these things that kind of all factor in there to be able to make the shake and then, okay, like I modify, how much of one ingredient goes in there? How much does it modify the end product of the shake?
It's hard to ever know, but I would say at the same time, I can still try to make each ingredient a little better. Mm-hmm. Okay. There's no reason to not make it better. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, compound exercises are usually really good ingredients as part of this concoction. Mm-hmm. Okay. But sometimes for certain individuals, you're doing a compound exercise and.
It just develops some part of you a little bit more than other parts. Like maybe you bench and it hits a little bit more front dealt on you for whatever reason, and you don't get as much peck as maybe someone else does, and you need some kind of more of a isolated fly action to be able to stimulate the peck so it can reach the threshold so we can have all this protein synthesis happening.
Mm-hmm. Or maybe for somebody, they just don't get as much tricep and they need to do more tricep work. So it's always this like discovery process of, hey, which of your muscles are the ones that like need more training stimulus to be able to reach threshold for delivering nutrients and experiencing growth at a higher level.
You know, for me, like legs, I can literally do three sets of quads a week and they'll grow. Mm-hmm. You know, it's kind of ridiculous. Uh, triceps on the other hand, they just don't respond that well for me. I need to like, kind of hit 'em like even no matter how much I, so you do more volume for your triceps.
Yeah. And it seems like no matter what I do, they're just like, they don't really like to play. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I like, I don't know, just I feel, I worry about my arms too genetically. Who the hell knows. So it's, it's really difficult to say much other than if you're. You gotta have your compounds in place.
You know, some kind of a squat based motion, a hinge based motion, a leg extension based motion, a hamstring curl based motion, horizontal push, some sort of vertical push, uh, you know, pulling vertical, horizontal, tucked elbows, flared elbows. All of those things need to be in place. Mm-hmm. Like, you just need to check all of the basic fundamental boxes.
And then maybe you've got lagging parts that need more isolation. Mm-hmm. And that's part of bodybuilding is feedback from the judges. Like, eh, you really need to fill out that side del so you're like, oh shit, I better do lateral raises every damn day. Yeah. Because I need that part to respond more. Mm-hmm.
And maybe it needs more intensity, maybe it needs more volume. You gotta figure this stuff out over time. So it's, I would just say there's, you know, the. I like to talk about getting to Rome as an analogy for this. You know, you always hear all roads lead to Rome. Mm-hmm. Okay. I bet that's true, but I bet you that there were some roads that sucked and I bet there were other roads that were much easier and most people were like, ah, you could take any of these fucking roads.
But like, I'd probably take that one or that one. Okay. Yeah. And like you're like, uh, I think I'm gonna take that one because I'm traveling solo and I don't need the big wide expanse to travel down. This has like a nice little e but if you're traveling in a caravan with a big wagon, you need that one.
Yeah. Okay. So I think that there's a million ways to accomplish the goal of muscle growth, but there's a few really reliable and predictable ones that work for most people. And then every now and then you just get some weirdo that like needs a very strange road to get to Rome. Mm-hmm. But. There's a lot of ways to get that job done.
Like morons have grown muscle for a long time. Okay. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. You need to be a high effort person, you know, first and foremost. Mm-hmm. And not do something so ridiculous. Like you don't wanna run marathons to try to grow your legs, you know? But the, the number of potential avenues that could get there, so many.
Mm-hmm. It's just some of them are probably smarter bets for more people. Well, I tell people all the time, if your goal is to just look good, right? If you just want a physique that most people could say, Hey, he or she looks pretty good, you could almost do a plethora of different types of training. Right.
You look at a lot of this high rocks training right now. Yep. And a lot of people are doing a ton of conditioning. You're running, I think for some of the women, they look incredible. Right. You're, you're sprinting a lot, you're building a lot of leg tissue. You are doing some general strength training, but probably not that much as a, as a bodybuilder.
And then you have the bodybuilder physique. Right. You everyone could look pretty good. I mean, I know people who just train kettlebells who look great. Yep. I know people who just do calisthenics that just look great For the average person, how important do you think it is because I, we talked about this a while ago and I, I love what you said.
You were like, you basically want to be a shitty bodybuilder at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah. You know, because I think that's the easiest way to look at it. But if you just wanna look good. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think training is the most important thing. Yeah. And just picking whatever it is. And how important is the intensity level, which you train that.
Yeah. The effort is always gonna be the critical thing. Mm-hmm. You know, and like it's, I, what I've learned as I've gotten into bodybuilding is kind of the science of like, what actually is attractive. You know, what, what is an attractive physique? Mm-hmm. And most of it is just the genetic shape of your skeleton.
Okay. Like if you're wide up top at the shoulders and narrow at the hips, that's really good, man. Yeah. Like that's, that's Chris Bumstead. That's what you're, you know, the, the, and you can't do anything about that. Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, and you know, then there's kind of like, well, what makes an arm a good looking arm?
And it's generally when you see something like a Lee Priest best arms in the history of the sport. Okay. Why does he have the best arms in the history of the sport? Because good separation, it's a short segment. Number one, you almost never see someone with a very long humorous that's, they're never gonna have the best arms in the sport.
It's gotta be a short segment. Like Tom Platt's best quads ever. His femur is super short. Mm-hmm. Alright. Then there's, well, how much of the segment is actually made up of muscle belly versus tendon length? You know, you look at some guy's biceps, like Larry Wheels has a very long bicep tendon. Mm-hmm. So his bicep only goes like from here to here and the rest is all tendon.
You want the most amount of muscle per chunk of real estate as possible. Yeah. That always looks better. Uh, and then there's the shape of the muscle where rounder muscle bellies look better than square muscle bellies. So if you happen to be the person that's wider at the shoulders and narrow it that narrow at the hips, and you have a small segment at the regions that you're looking at, and you have most of that segment made up of muscle tissue and very little of it made up of the tendon tissue and the muscles round while you're basically Ronnie Coleman.
Okay. And even Ronnie's legs were probably, they're not the best ever. He, you know, his legs, he doesn't have the best legs ever in the sport. Mm-hmm. And it's because he's just got longer femur. Yeah. I mean, he had so much muscle, he just kind of overwhelmed and made up for it. Yeah. But he wasn't genetically set up to have the best legs in the history of the sport.
Yeah. Okay. So it's, most of these things you have no control over. You know, you can't control the shape of your skeleton. You can't control the real estate that your tendon makes up relative to your muscle. Um, all you can do is control how much muscle you accrue and how much fat you accrue. Mm-hmm. And you generally want to have less fat and more muscle.
And that's from a behavior standpoint. If you train harder and watch your diet and you know, go to bed on time, you'll maximize that stuff. You know, obviously you've been a bodybuilding, femme most of your life, right? You grew up a little bit, I would say, like adjacent to it. So my question is, do you think we're all a little gay?
Because I think I've been obsessed with Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stallone Schwartz and Schwartzenegger. Yeah. All these guys my whole life. And I've had two gay moments in my life, Uhhuh, where I had to check myself and I'm like, I think I might be gay. One, I was at the premier of the Fury movie. Okay. And I went to go see that movie.
You ever see it? Fury like Mad Max? Oh no. Where? Brad K Oh, the Tank one? Yes. That's a great movie. Great movie. Yeah. And I was at the premier and they introduced all the other actors and then Brad Pitt comes out and I go, holy fuck, this guy's hot. Yeah. He's got the little, he's had a little scarf on fucking indoor glasses if Fedor.
I'm like, I get it. I get one, like if I walked in on my wife and she was banging him, I'd be like, I at it. Make some sense here. And then the second time Uhhuh last year, I'm at the Olympia Bum Steads last show. He comes out and I'm like, yeah, he looks significantly better than everybody else here. Right.
Like, and now you're talking on the biggest stage with the best physiques in the world. Yeah. Just blows him outta the water and he blows everybody outta water. And I'm like, I get it. I think I'm gay. So I, I would say that I don't think that is gay. That's just appreciation. Okay. Gay is literally, I was getting nervous for a while.
Any level of, 'cause this guy tried to sleep with me this weekend when we were alone. I mean, he's got a hell of a smile. And I could see him using that to his advantage here. I think that there's like a, you know, there's a spectrum. Okay. Yeah. But like, there's not gay. Yeah. And then the rest of it is gayer.
Yeah. Okay. Once you do anything with a dude on any sexual or romantic that's gay, you're now no longer, you're past the threshold. You're no longer not gay. Yeah. Which is only right here at this point. You're now here. Okay. You can always get more gay. Yeah. You can never go back. It's a one way street at this point in time.
I agree. I agree. That I think is the only real, like classification systems I would say. Just like looking at Brad Pitton and being like, fuck man, look at, that's that. That's a good man. That's not gay. Yeah. That's just appreciation and judgment. Yeah. Okay. If you like, you know, groped him in a public bathroom, now all of a sudden you've jumped across that line and you know now if five guys come in after that in the same bathroom, now you've just moved yourself further down the line.
Yeah, yeah. And everybody jumped in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then it becomes a real gay situation. Um. So, I mean, on the, so this is the good stuff. Forget evaluating, you know? Yeah. Bodybuilding. Um, but on the, uh, on the topic of Bumstead, you see a guy like him, he's had all this wild success. Yeah. But now he's moving away from mm-hmm.
Bodybuilding training, which I think is causing a lot of people, more people to start, do things like high rocks. Yeah. And athletic training, you know, 'cause he has a lot of influence and what he's seeing bears a lot of weight. Sure. So do you think you're gonna see this migration or do you think what he's doing, um, is benefiting him in the long run health wise?
I think when I look at him move, like he's just got great alignment of all of his bones and joints. Mm-hmm. Like, he's got great rotation of every segment. Like full hip flexion, hip extension. I mean, he's just. He had managed to accrue an unbelievable amount of muscle without losing his movement capabilities.
Which is incredibly, which is important. Yeah. Yeah. Incredibly rare, you know? Uh, and so I think that he has the ability to just go and do different things because he can. Alright. But I think a lot of people, if you dedicate that much of yourself towards building that much muscle, you're probably gonna lose some joint range of motion.
Mm-hmm. And become a worse mover over time. And then trying to do other sports and things that are athletic is less fun. So he still has plenty of access to being able to move pretty athletically and he can jump well and he can do all these things. So it's like, it's the same, like if, if you can do something well, you probably like doing it.
Mm-hmm. Most people like to do things that they're good at for sure. And then they do more of it and get better at it, and then they like it more. So it's this kind of self-fulfilled, but I think that he is an exception. You know, he's clearly like an exceptional athlete. And just like all the cards came together, the stars aligned on this, the creation of this genetic specimen, and it's like he can do whatever he wants.
That doesn't mean you can Yeah, it doesn't mean I can. So one of the things that I think is the, uh, well, two things that most people don't realize is, one, you got somebody like him who has gotten, I think he's gotten like two hair transplants at this point. Okay. You've managed to keep your hair, you know, it looks incredible.
Well, if I was going bald at five, six, you know, that's just double down on, on top stuff. Like, they don't need that. Like, but he, no, but he, he's gotten the hair transplant. Do you think that was a genetic factor, or do you think that's a factor of using That could definitely come from, from steroids, you know, for sure.
Like, uh, not, yeah, like the wrong wands and any, like, you never know exactly how that's gonna react to the Sure. The DHT pathway is the one that leads to. Baldness. Yeah. And, um, you know, you can have conversions take place, especially with like, polypharmacy of all the different drugs involved. Mm-hmm. So I'm sure it didn't help, you know?
Okay. But, uh, you know, as I learned having to fly through the Istanbul airport a few times last year, you know, that is like, everybody just goes there for that particular procedure and it seems to work pretty well, uh, as I got a million ads for hair transplants after flying through there. The other, uh, thing that, you know, I, what I think the misconception is, is that how important supplements are.
The question I get the most here is, alright, what supplements should I be taking? How much of it should I be taking? Yeah. And when I, when I talk to guys who are on gear, I'm like, you're really taking what you need to take already. Right. You don't need too much more. Yeah. I'm c I'm taking creatine on top.
Like, I don't really need it. You know, you don't need creatine if you're taking all the Yeah. Yeah. So you got all these guys, you know, at the Arnold. So many different supplement brands. Yeah. Huge brands spending so much money. Does it even, I mean, does it matter? There's a few that are good ideas to take.
Yeah. You know, I think creatine is clearly a good idea. Mm-hmm. Unless for the very rare instance where it causes like abdominal cramping for some groups. Why is, and because a lot of, well there's some water retention element to it that people freak out about and over blow and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah. I have always, I've never had that effect and I know a ton of people who have taken it. I've gotten most of my clients and friends on it. Yeah. Um. I've never heard of anybody getting that, but I think it's very rare, but I think it's a fear. Very, yes. It's a giant fear. Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's, it's almost like being afraid of being eaten by a shark every time you go to the beach.
Like, is it gonna happen? I mean, it could, but it's probably not like, go on the damn water. Mm-hmm. Like, don't be weirdo about this. Yeah. Um, so I, I think creatine's a great idea. You know, the other ones that are like protein powder, like people, you know, let's not sleep on that. It's still really effective.
Most people are probably not hitting protein targets on a regular basis. Um, that is going to be beneficial for a number of reasons, but especially for muscle growth and muscle maintenance during deficit dieting. Mm-hmm. Um, caffeine is a great supplement. Vitamin D tends to be really good. Um, you know, but the list is pretty short in terms of things that like are worth taking.
Well, so I, I mean, I get shit on all the time 'cause I. I crush these and I'll pop a whip every once in a while and I'll take a ton of caffeine. I don't think it negatively affects me in any way. No. It's been around for a million years. Yeah. And like it's got a lot of benefits and performance benefits from an exercise perspective, what's your thoughts?
Because I know there's a lot of research now on nicotine. Yeah. And the, the positive effects of nicotine, it's got some fat burning effects to it. Mm-hmm. I, I think it's, it's not tremendous. It's a stimulant, so you get the benefits of any kind of stimulant. Mm-hmm. Uh, I think it's a little overblown right now.
Uh, but appetite suppression and, uh, fat burning, those are both pretty good factors. Pretty good. You know what I mean? Uh, and if, and if it, if you happens to be strong for, in a particular individual, the appetite suppression, great. You know, yeah's, we can see what GLP ones like. Well, that's, I think that's probably people's biggest problem, is that they don't know when to stop eating.
Yeah. You know, I think one, I think it's a. It's a psychological issue with most people. Yeah. Like they eat because they feel comfortable or you know, there's nothing else to do there. There's definitely a genetic hunger drive for sure. Where some people just have a louder voice yapping at them to tell them to eat.
Yeah. And I think that we're seeing just how powerful that is with GLP drugs. Sure. Turn that voice down. And what do you, what is that? Uh, well, I mean, it's growing, but like what GLP is, you know, it's glucagon like peptide, so the effects of glucagon, which is kind of the antithesis of insulin, it has a lot of downstream effects, but some of them just seem to be the innate feedback to the brain that is going to tell you how hungry you are.
Mm-hmm. And if you don't feel as hungry. Well then you don't have the drive to eat. Yeah. But like, why do you think like it, it's turned up on some people and turned down on others history of that person's lineage? You know, like we've seen, uh, the, from like the generation in, uh, Holland that lived through World War ii, they went through the Dutch Hunger Winter, it was what it was called, where they averaged about 400 calories a day.
Oh shit. And they were resorting to eating, you know, sticks and, you know, things like that. And they, after the war, had this rebound effect where they like overate like crazy. And they ended up later on in life with like, uh, higher rates of obesity and metabolic syndrome and high blood pressure and things like that.
Now, their children also saw the same things where they had a higher rate of obesity and metabolic syndrome and uh, other cardiovascular health problems. Uh, in their lifetimes. And now we're far enough away from it where we're seeing the grandchildren of the people that live through the Dutch hunger winter having the same thing.
So the genetics of like, how hard did your ancestors suffer? Mm-hmm. Is a huge factor in what your food drive is now because it's the biggest driver of survival. You know, starving to death is, is, is a massive thing that you need to account for. So if there's any calories available, better eat 'em because you don't know if there's gonna be none.
And you need to have big fat supplies to be able to survive a hunger winter like that. Mm-hmm. You turned me on to so many great people. When it comes to training, uh, the first one that comes to mind is Derrick Henson. Yeah. He's incredible. Who are some other people that you think people should follow? Oh, that's great.
You know, they, great question. Have a really, really good education system. Yeah. Really good understanding of like, training. I, I really like Matt McKinnis, uh, you know, for plyometrics. He's just got a great, uh, system that he rolls out and utilizes. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, I, I know he teaches a seminar on that, and that's one that I definitely want to attend.
Where's that? Uh, he, he's the, I think his, his Instagram tagline is The Plyo guy. Okay. Something to that effect. Check that out. You'll, you'll find him if you kind of search something to that effect, or I'll send him over to you. Okay. Um, you know, when it comes to some of the bodybuilding stuff, like resistance training stuff, uh, I think, um, you know, Joe Bennett, uh, hypertrophy coach.
Okay. He's, he's just such a great resource. And, uh, the way he explains things is just so straightforward and he's so accomplished with working with, you know, the highest level Olympians all the way down to like, you know, dads that are just trying to like, get in good shape. Mm-hmm. So, you know, those are, those are two phenomenal ones from very different directions.
I think Fred Duncan is another guy that's Fred Duncan's great. Yeah. You know, he's similar to Derek in terms of primarily focused on speed and athletics, but he's just got his own voice that I think is a really good one. He's just very direct, very dry. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, you know, that's, that's three guys you can't go wrong with.
Yes. Uh, as far as bodybuilders, you know, people that you admire in the sport Yeah. That are doing it to a really high level. Yeah. You know, the success of bodybuilding after this weekend that I saw, it's mind blowing to me because I've been into this for a long time. I've been going to the Arnold forever.
And it's bigger than ever. Right? It's bigger than ever there. I couldn't believe the amount of people, there was a lot of people, I'm like, you look like you've never even seen the inside of a gym. I don't know why you're here, but I I'm happy you're here. Yeah. Because it shows me, because even with my event, I want to grow the strong New York to the point where it's like, Hey, we have one of these in our backyard.
Yeah. You can go to Arnold, it's awesome. But there's another one right here in New York where we could go and do that. And I wanna start to grow that end of it. Yeah. Um, like a sports festival. Yeah. Like some sort of like opportunity where people could celebrate health and wellness. Yeah. I think we, we celebrate everything else.
There's uh, you know, food Wine Festival and there's Comic Con and there's all this other shit. Why wouldn't people want to go to an event where there's all this fitness based stuff? Sure. Yeah. Because it's something that we should all do. You have to get the Javit center or something for all the things.
Yeah. Well, I need to fill up the space I got first. Right. I understand. I understand. I can move to the Javit Center. Yeah. But. The, the wild success of people, one, wanting to engage in some sort of, you know, meetup or some sort of event just to go talk to like bodybuilders, because that's what all the lines are for.
Right? Right. They shut down one of the booths because you couldn't even get into it. Yeah. Like the cops came and shut it down. It was a young LA booth. You got all these kids who are engaging in fitness. Like our generation grew up, like, if you weren't drinking and going out, then you were a loser. Yeah.
Right. Now if you're not going to the gym, you're a loser. Which is great. Yeah. You know, so it's a big shift. Yeah. Because I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Dork. Yeah. Absolute. Yeah. Like if you weren't out partying, you're like, what the fuck, what's the matter with this kid? You know, I, I actually used to say, Sinatra said everything first was like, if you don't drink, I don't trust you.
Yeah. Right. Like, it was almost like you, you're never gonna feel good uhhuh. Right. You're never like really experiencing life. Um, but now there's a shift towards bodybuilding and kids getting I know. And I think a part of that as a man, I wanna see how far you're willing to go. You know, you can do that pretty quick with drinking.
Yeah. You know what I mean? That's true. This guy's a savage dude. Like this guy is not afraid to like, you know, Rick Flare himself. Yeah, yeah. You know, he's this guy. Well, I think there was always a tell. I mean, since the, like you watch it in cowboy movies and stuff, right? Yeah. Like how far, how many shots could you go?
Because that's how you know you can trust somebody. Yeah. Like this guy, this guy's willing to go all the way. Yeah. Or his tolerances. Yeah. He's a set, this is not his first as rodeo. So I think weights can do a similar thing. Like, I wouldn't want to get into a business deal with somebody unless I saw them train.
I say, you know, I literally said this during COVID when I went to go see my, uh, the spine specialist up at, um, HSS, and he's like, uh, he's like, I go, he wanted, he wanted to fuse my back. He wanted to fucking do a and I go, I'm not. No shot. I'm not doing that. I go, I know there's not something structurally wrong with my back.
Yeah. There has to be something else. And he's like, why do you think you know more than me? I go, sir, with all due respect, I don't think you've ever been to the inside of a gym. Yeah. He was a skinny old man. Yeah. And I go, have you ever dealt with back pain? He's like, no, but I've treated thousands of clients.
I go, I get that. But until you feel it yourself, and I understand the healing factor of movement. Yeah. I understand what it feels like to be out of pain because I moved. Right. So I, I go, I think that's so important. And I go, and if you haven't moved, if you haven't touched a weight before, I don't think I could trust you.
I, I mean, I, I very much like, I remember when I first got hired down here at Peak Performance. Yeah. And, you know, they wanted to have this whole interviewing process, you know, and I got all the, the suits in one room. And, you know, I'm like, they're asking me, well, what do you think, uh, what should our protocol be for interviewing candidates?
Go. Why don't we just ask them to work out and we watch what they do and we see if there are a moron or not. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And uh, I was like, within five minutes, I'm gonna know whether or not this person's smart, knows anything about training. Mm-hmm. And is a hard worker. Well, I've literally only trained, uh, only hired from the inside.
Like Justin's one of my guys now, he's been working with me for a couple years. Um, he started with me at Solace. Christie started with me at Solace, like most of my, I jd, who's like kind of my manager here, he started with me here five years ago, six years ago. So. That's one of the things, it's one of the protocols Yeah.
To work with me. I'm like, well, you gotta be into it. You gotta do it. Yeah. If you're not doing it, what the fuck is the point? Yeah. Why are you, how are you gonna teach somebody else how to do what we're doing here if you never understood that? I was in a PhD program for exercise physiology, and there were a couple people that looked like they had never exercised in their life.
Yeah. And I was like, what, what, what's your motivation to be in this program? Mm-hmm. Like, I, I'm motivated to be in here because I still think that I could be a professional athlete in something. Yeah. And if I learn everything I possibly can, I'll find little secrets that I can use to manipulate my own training to be able to, you know, squeeze whatever percentile of ability outta myself, I can.
Mm-hmm. I'm only here so that I can work harder, like more of a lunatic than I already am. Well, I, I, I think we share a lot of, uh, similar situations, right? Like, I know you've had some dark times in the last couple years and you've had to struggle through that. Do you think the training and the, the lifestyle has helped it or hurt you in a way?
That's a great question. And, uh, you know, what I, 'cause I'll have, I've learned, I, because I have had, uh, some hard years mm-hmm. Over this last five years chunk. Mm-hmm. Hardest five years of my life, no question about it. And has it been pleasant? Absolutely not. Would I wish for the next five years to, no. I don't want the next five years to be like that.
What has it led to though? I think, like, I've gained a lot more character as a result of it. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I've also been able to have conversations with people that I never would've been able to have before. Okay. Where people now ask, they, they tell me about some of the hard times they're dealing with and I'm able to kind of.
Reflect and compare and tell 'em about what's going on with me. And, and the one piece of advice I usually give people is I say, now listen, I, I'm hearing you tell me that things aren't going well. I need you to understand things can always get much worse and they can get really bad really quick. Mm-hmm.
So the best thing is, even if you don't feel like doing it, you gotta do the next positive behavior. I don't care how little you want to do it, go work out. Make yourself dinner, make your bed, go to bed, get up, make yourself coffee, go to work, do these things. It motivation doesn't matter. Just doing them ensures that things are not gonna get worse mm-hmm.
Because they can get a lot worse. I, I totally agree. You know, I talk about this constantly when I was dealing with some shit, this is probably 12 years ago. Um. I woke up one morning, I go in the medicine cabinet, I start pulling shit out and I'm like, if I just took all this shit, maybe I'll fucking not wake up.
Yeah. Or this is gonna make my life a whole lot more complicated. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna get sick, I'm gonna fuck something up. How about I just start chalking up winds, how about's it I go for a run. Yep. I eat something a little healthier to feel better. I go work out. I go hang out with some friends doing things that'll compound in a good way.
Yep. And not in a negative way. And I'd say even if in the moment, 'cause I've felt bad enough where even if like I, I, I would say I could win Powerball today. Mm-hmm. And I wouldn't be able to feel good about it. Yeah. Okay. Like I'm literally that devoid Yeah. Of the ability to feel good. Mm-hmm. And, but I know that in the long run, if I win Powerball down the road, that's better.
Okay. So it's kind of the same thing like. There'd be times, I don't want to do this, but I know that if I don't do it, it's worse. Okay. So I do it, I don't feel better. Okay. And I think that's hard for people. You know when, when you are at a point where even the positives don't immediately feel better to keep doing that.
You know, that's where the discipline comes in, in my mind. But if you stick with it long enough, you'll crack through and then all of a sudden, you know, you don't know when it's gonna be what it's gonna be. You might wake up for no good reason that you could possibly think of. There's this one day where all of a sudden it's like a little better.
Mm-hmm. And you've gotten around some kind of corner in life, you know, it's almost like the seasons of the year. Sure. Like. It's January, it's dark, it's cold. Like a good day in January still kind of sucks. Okay. But trust the process. You'll get to a day like today where it's 75 degrees out. You know, it seems like you never get there, but if you just keep getting after it, you get there eventually.
I'm not an astrology guy, but you know, I think there is something to be said about the moon and the stars and the, the gravitational pull of the moon, you know, on earth that might affect our personalities. It might affect our moods in a way. Sure. You know, how much of it do you think is a chemical based thing?
Yeah. Where it's like our hormones is up. Because even as early as last night, I left here and I was just in the worst fucking mood and I'm like, I don't want to go to Juujitsu. Yeah. Yeah. But I knew if I got myself to go and I was like angry and like upset and pissed off and I'm like, why am I like this?
If I just go turn my mind off and do something physical for an hour? Yeah. I'm gonna feel better. And instantly I did. Yeah. And it's been instantly better because yesterday I felt like shit. And today I'm just like, okay, I'm back on track. Yeah. Well I think the expectation to always feel great is a problem.
Mm-hmm. And I think that somehow we've been conditioned to think that all the time we should feel good. Yeah. And that doesn't really make sense. Like even if you felt good all the time, you actually would lose the feeling good thing. Mm-hmm. Like it, everything's only a comparison to something else. Of course, if you think about it, like you can only know what good feels by knowing what terrible feels.
So it's, it's like, I think that we have to go through cycles and, and I think what you're talking about is just part of a cycle. Mm-hmm. And you know, dark, light feeding, fasting. You know, emotional, we have to go through cycles to be able to appreciate the different components of it. Mm-hmm. You know, I don't, I wouldn't trust somebody that's happy all the time.
Yeah. Like, I don't, yeah. I, I never trust people who are like, why are you too excited about life all the time? Yeah. Like, uh, yeah. Where's your downtime button? Like, what's, what's this all about? You know? I agree. Um, last question. How important do you think fasting is for most people? I, I, it's a question that comes up a lot and people are like, should I be fasting?
Should I not? What are, what are the ups and downs of it? There's no, um, there's no extra benefit to fasting as compared to any other calorie restricted diet. Mm-hmm. You know, when you look at health outcomes or weight loss rates or any, or muscle retention kinds of stuff, it all kind of equals out fairly, even based on total calories in versus calories out over a period of time.
Mm-hmm. Okay. That being said, for some people, fasting's a good tool. 'em, you know, like I, for instance, I don't have, I'm not as hungry in the morning. I definitely am hungrier later in the day. So if I'm in a phase where I'm in a very strong calorie deficit and it's been going on for a while, I start to shift more towards a morning fasting schedule.
Mm-hmm. Because psychologically I know I've got food later when I'm hungry and like, you know, I'll just, so if you're someone that it's easier to restrict your food in the morning and then you, you have a, a bit of a psychological benefit by eating later, go for it. But if you think that there's gonna be some magic growth hormone response or blood glucose response, there's not, there's none of that stuff that's associated with it for you.
Um, you know, you've done. Obviously you've been, you've been competing for a while, you, you've tried probably everything. Yeah. What has made the biggest jump for you? Like I, a buddy of mine drugs. Yeah, I know, but like, which one? Because I have a buddy of mine who said when he started taking D ball Yeah. He goes, there wasn't a bar I couldn't pick up interest.
Yeah. Um, DHB has been a very powerful drug that got added for me. Okay. And, uh, you know, again, you have like, there's three primary steroid pathways, testosterone, DHT, and then the 19 alpha alkylated pathways, which is things like trend and nandrolone and stuff like that. Okay. So most. Stacks that are put into place are either test and A DHT derivative, like Masteron Primo, and DHB is is one of those ones.
Mm-hmm. Or it also adds something from the 19 Alpha Alkylated as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, so you'd have something in there like Nandrolone or, uh, you know, trend or something like that, and those are the ones that are gonna kind of cut you up a little bit more. Right. Well, you know, I think that the, like trend gets this crazy reputation and, but I think it is more due to the fact that it's an acetate, you know, there's, there's.
Ether's, there's acetates, there's Cates, there's propionate, and those are the oil compound that it's mixed in. Mm-hmm. And the oil is what leads to the rate of release of the chemical. And so an ether, or like a e, you see like test E, uh, that's the slowest release. Okay. The acetate is the fastest release.
So if you take trend acetate today, it's pretty much outta your system tomorrow. Mm-hmm. And that's where guys are like taking it every day or something like that. But you get more side effects with the faster it gets into your system, faster, it causes a stronger response right now, but it's also going to really crank up the side effects.
Mm-hmm. So if it was something like a tranny e, it probably wouldn't get all of the extreme side effects that you hear with the emotional stuff and the sleep irregularities and like, you know, wild rage experiences and things like that. Mm-hmm. Which you could also have from using other compounds if they're put into an acetate format.
So you know, it's. Yeah, there's truths and there's, why is it true? And you know, as you kind of pull away and understand these things better, oftentimes the real answer is related to the answer you hear most of the time. But it's actually like a, a slight alteration of the version of it. Mm-hmm. Like, it's not the trend, it's just that everybody takes trend.
Ace. Yeah. And that's the thing that makes you kind of go wild. Well, yeah, I think that's the thing. Like, I mean, obviously there's, and also the milligrams get super high too. Well, it's like any other drug on the market if you abuse it. Yeah, it's going to have a negative side effect to it. Yeah. And at the right dose, it's probably something pretty good for you.
You know, it's, it's powerful. Like, that's a powerful drug. Yeah. Like, it's almost like you're not gonna see too many high school kids with their first drug experience, have it be crack or heroin or something. It's probably gonna be weed. It's like weed to be like test. Yeah. And then like, you know, after you've been in, going in this game for a while and meeting all the right people and like, you find yourself in a room and it's like, let's go.
You know? Yeah. And then you find yourself in an alleyway and you're like, you know, lighting up a spoon or something like that. It's like there's a progression to these things. Um, but I think that it's, it's sometimes it's, it's, it's not the answer that people think is the, the end product. And like, like I think of that with cocaine, for instance.
Like, that was a product that was sold from a legitimate pharmaceutical company in Germany, Merck, as like a be. Wonderful cure all for the whole population to take because it's so great and it's got ads in basic newspapers and it's sold in pharmacies, and it's like, now we think of it as like, oh, that's, that's a hard drug you're doing there.
Yeah. Everything. You know, like, is it you're just partying or is like things kind of getting a little outta hand for you? Yeah. You know, it's the same thing with psilocybin now, right? Like you're seeing a lot of people use it as a medical grade drug, right? That's helping a lot people in the seventies or something, they're like, what are you part of the Manson family?
You gonna jump out of a window and kill yourself? Like, I love a mushroom every once in a while at the right dose, I feel I'm in a better mood. Yeah. You know, so I, it helps me think a little bit more clearly. Like you have things like ashwagandha and, uh, lions, Maine, and a lot of this stuff helps a ton, you know, with focus.
I think that most of, uh. Western culture can be explained through the drugs that are flowing through. Oh, for sure. The population at the time. Yeah. You know, one of the, one of the things is pharmacy is incredibly interesting, but it's the thing that's driven society. Well, if you look at the top five songs from every decade from like the fifties or sixties, like you could tell what drug they were doing, no question.
Right? Yeah. I mean, it's like you look at the nineties and it was like more depression and sad rock. Yeah. And then you look at something like the eighties. Yeah, yeah. You look at the eighties and you're like, man, it looked like it was just a good time the whole time. Yeah. Columbia was very present in that, in that music.
Yeah. And then you have the seventies and it's more psychedelic and uhhuh. Yeah. So Dr. Pat, thank you so much for coming on the show. Great talk. Really appreciate it. Guys. If you have any questions on, um, you know, bodybuilding and, uh, you know, steroid use or anything in that realm, I mean, Dr. Pat is a great resource.
Where could everybody find you? Uh, Instagram's a good spot for me at Dr. Pat Davidson. Yeah. And for those of you who question his, uh, authority or knowledge in the space, I got your authority right here. I've known Dr. Pat a long time. Uh, kinda give him an idea like what your, uh, your degree is in and why.
Sure. Uh, I've got a master's in strength and conditioning. I've got exercise, physi physiology, PhD. Um, and I, you know, I've been a college professor at a few different, uh, colleges. Um, and, you know, I'm just like a lifelong learner. Yeah. I'm always reading books and like, yeah. And that's what I love the most about you.
And obviously like he's doing the thing, right. Like, there's a lot of people who say they're an expert on these things and they'll tell you not to do them, but I trust the guy who's actually trying and doing it and has an opinion about it rather than the person who's never done it and swears it off to people.
I, I have only ever learned to compete, so I always make myself compete in something because for sure I feel like it, it holds my ass to the fire and makes me fight out corners, you know? I like that. I like living life that way. Yeah. Well, I mean, from your first show to your last show, I think. A world of difference.
It's gonna be, uh, you have another one coming up soon, July. Yeah. Is that the New York? There's new N PC Universe. Okay. Uh, that's in Teaneck, New Jersey. Yeah. Which is where they hold the New York Pro. Mm-hmm. That is right around the 4th of July. Okay. And two weeks after that I believe is, uh, masters Nationals in Pittsburgh.
Mm-hmm. So, I'm, I'm try, I'm, I'll do, these are both pro card attempts, so I'm gonna try to get a pro card at, at hopefully the first one. That'd be great. Mm-hmm. And then I wouldn't do the second one, but my goal is to get a pro card compete as a pro. And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm giving this a legit 10 year run at the very least.
Mm-hmm. You know, like that's my commitment to myself on this. And just to see how far it can go. Three favorite gyms to train at. Whew. That's a great. I love training at Hype. I really did. Mm-hmm. Like that was good training. Yeah. We had a great atmosphere there. Yeah. Um, it was such a, it was very un it wasn't what you would think of a New York City Yeah.
In the gym. Right. At that time there was so many great people there. Yeah. You know, we just had like that. Well, because it was all the people who were like, fuck you to COVID. Yep. None of us gave a shit. When when you hit me up and you were like, Hey, you want to come here? I'm like, fuck yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm in.
Let's go. Uh, you know, uh, lightning Fitness in South Windsor, Connecticut by a mile. Best gym I've ever been in. Really? What's it called? Matt Mills. Lightning Fitness. Lightning Fitness. Check them out. Matt Mills is the guy that runs it. He's been a pro strong man. He's an elite power lifter. He is into bodybuilding now.
He is the realest deal. Okay. Ever. That is an elite international level training facility that has everything. You talk, power lifting, wing bodybuilding, stuff, like as much of it as you could ever find. A whole strong man section. Every possible event you could ever train. Where it Windsor, south Windsor, Connecticut.
Where the fuck is that? It's up, uh, right on the Massachusetts border. Okay. Like when I was at Springfield College, we all trained at Lightning Fitness for strongman. Okay. And like we had elite, national, international level strongman competitors coming outta that gym. And Matt just, if it was like, Hey, we got a, you know, F finger at the next event in eight weeks, like that dude would buy it.
He would just show up. He'd be like, how'd you get these giant 30 foot pipes in here? Like, no shit. Just find a way, dude. And this thing's, you know, since I was there, he's expanded into, it's probably 70,000 feet or something like that. No shit. Yeah. I mean, it is. I don't think you could possibly find a sicker gym in the world than that spot.
No, I don't gonna have to take a road trip. I'll go with you. Yeah, I haven't been up. Do there in a while, dude. Matt's the coolest dude you'll ever meet. And then what's the third one? Third one. That's a great, where would the third one be? You know, I usually just train wherever the hell I am. I'm trying to think of like sick gyms that I've been to that to train at.
Um, I think like maybe Derrick Pound Stone's Gym going there. That was pretty cool. Where was that? That was in Connecticut as well. Okay. You know, like when I was with the strongman guys, uh, 'cause I haven't been to like a lot of the, you know, big Vegas gyms and stuff like that. Like I'm sure like Dragons LA shit like that.
Yeah. Like, I've never been to some of those. Never been to like Gold's Venice, like Oh really? Yeah. Like, oh dude, I was just there the last week. I've been to Bevs. I'll throw Bevs in there. Okay. Bevs for sure. Bev's is crazy and it's got all the, you know, history to it. I love, uh, you know, obviously I. It was part of the CrossFit community for a long time.
And they've had some great gyms. I mean, there were some gyms back in the day that don't exist anymore, but they had these great garage facilities. Yeah. That just the atmosphere and the people. You smell it. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that. But I also love the, the bodybuilding. Like you walk into certain gyms, like, uh, there's a new gym.
I, I mean, I love an old school gym. Like there's this place at Tillis down in South Jersey that I always go to. Um, you know, there's uh, uh, what's Angel's Gym Down? Elevation Uhhuh. Have you ever been there? Never been there. No. Oh, dude, great. Gym. Like that's another place where you walk and you're like, this feels good.
Right. Um. And then, uh, where else? Oh, and then a couple buddies. I mean, New Jersey to me, the New Jersey bodybuilding scene and the gym scene Yeah. Is pretty legit. I just haven't been to a lot of those spots, you know. Oh, we should go to, yeah. The new Iron Culture. I, I used to train at the old one. Okay. In Bergen.
So I, I've, I've seen the new one. The new one on video. Yeah. It's, we should go check it out. Yeah. Yeah. Well guys, thank you as always. Uh, you know, grab yourself a can, a Celsius Live fit and all as always, stay strong, like, share, subscribe. Thank you all for watching.