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Hosted by Dr. Val Civelli, White Coat Black Sheep explores physiology, functional medicine, and the medical questions most people are told not to ask.
This is where evidence meets curiosity, where dogma gets uncomfortable, and where real world medicine takes priority over headlines.
From understanding your lab work to debunking hormone myths, medication misconceptions, and optimization strategies, this podcast helps you understand what is actually happening inside your body.
If you care about health and think there might be a better way to practice medicine, you’re in the right place.
Welcome to White Coat Black Sheep, where science gets curious and dogma gets
uncomfortable. I'm your host, Dr. Sebely.
Today we talk physiology, evidence, and real-world medicine, plus the questions
you're not supposed to ask but probably should.
If you care about health and think there's a better way, welcome to our show.
Thank you so much for coming on today. Let us hear your name and what do you do?
My name is Jen, and I am, I use the term loosely, a stay-at-home
mom.
Mom, CEO.
Yep. Yep, all the things that nobody else has time to-do.
I need a mom-
Yes
... that's available at all times. I could use some help.
My whole family uses me that way, I think.
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm so happy to have you here. I know it was a sacrifice.
You have a lot of shifts and changes, health-related, not
health-related in your family right now.
Mm-hmm.
Welcome to share as much or as little as you like today.
My goal is that we get to hear your journey.
I love your transformation.
Thank you.
I love it so much.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
I'm excited to share and hopefully inspire some people to just
take it into their own hands.
Yeah.
Like
you said, ask the questions.
Yes.
It's-
It starts there.
Yeah. You're not going to get any answers without it.
So
without you, it wouldn't be possible.
Oh my gosh.
I am 49 years old, and
a couple of years back, I found myself in burnout and
very overweight and just not getting answers from doctors, and I
was led to you, and you gave me permission
to question things, and it just made it okay, and you just changed my
life.
Oh my gosh. So if we rewind, let's say one year ago-
Mm-hmm
...
how would you describe Jen? How would you describe how you felt, your
daily functioning, the challenges that you found you were running
into often that you really were like, "This is frustrating. I hate this.
I want to change this." And then, I guess the barriers that you kept
running into that kept you from overcoming.
So I do have autoimmune disease, Hashimoto's, and
hypothyroidism.
You would never know.
Yeah. And I don't feel it now.
And I
had burnout from being a caregiver for one family member or another.
I also ran a dog rescue, so all of these things.
And I had put on weight. I was going to doctors, begging for
help. They would run blood work and say everything was normal.
My least favorite word, normal.
Me too.
Their answer to everything was, "Just lose weight." Well, wouldn't I have loved to
do that? I was trying.
Brain fog really bad.
If you can recall, the first time we met, I could not get my words out,
and you just saw all of that, and I've never had that,
where a doctor just watched me and could
bring those words out for me. Usually a rush.
And
from that appointment on, it just spiraled.
I just was like-
Oh
... "Okay, she said that this is okay, so I'm just going to start doing deep
dives."
Yeah. I feel like I really didn't do anything.
You told me
from your own words what's going on, or even the lack of the
ability to say is a symptom. The word finding is a
symptom. And it sounds like you didn't put those two together-
Mm-hmm
... I guess as a starter, a good place to start.
So on the doctor side, it's my job to recognize that.
Yeah. And you just made me feel comfortable enough
to tell you everything that I was feeling, because in the past,
doctors will shut you down. They don't want to hear it.
You get one to three symptoms. That's it.
They're like, "Okay."
Yeah. After that, they're like, "Okay, this is too deep."
Yeah.
And always shut down with, "Let's do blood work."
Yeah.
And then you never hear from them again.
No.
Or you get a phone call, "Everything was normal."
From not the doctor.
Yeah. Yeah. And so if you have questions you can't ask or schedule a
follow-up that's two months down the road.
But during those appointments, you listened, and
you gave me tools. You even gave me things to read up on, which was so
helpful.
Yes.
And then the mention of peptides, of course.
What? Who said that? Hold on.
Yeah.
Yes. I
didn't know anything about it. Did a deep dive, and then of
course, when I came back to you, and I told you what I did, you weren't mad.
You didn't shame me.
Oh yeah, I remember. You're like, "Okay, don't be mad."
Yes.
That's how you started.
Because doctors being mean when you do something on your own is a real
thing, and I'm sure so many people have experienced that and have
no hope when they go in and-
Mm-hmm
... I don't feel that way anymore.
Yes.
Yeah. I'm just always telling people, "If your doctor tells you
this is your new normal, get a new doctor."
Yeah. It's interesting. I feel like the script has just flipped so that-
Mm-hmm
... on my side, on the medical side, we're just so anchored
to the paper.
Mm-hmm.
We're forgetting about the human that's right here.
Getting our perspective and our training, putting that all
together, we're taught fundamentally to treat the person.
Right.
But it's very easy to get off track and say, "Well,
let's just look at what the data shows." And that's great.
That's intelligent. That's wonderful.
Mm-hmm.
But it is never superior to the person in front of you and what
they're saying.
Right.
That's my hierarchy of management.
And it just makes us feel heard, and that's what a lot
of people, I'm sure, are looking for.
They just want to feel like somebody is actually listening to what they're saying.
Yes.
And
from me, it went to family members, and my whole family is doing
better because I'm able to-
Yeah
... incorporate things that I've learned from the directions that you've pointed me
in.
That's awesome.
I mean...
Patient empowerment.
Yes. And I'm sure maybe that's a frustration that the doctors have
when we're given tools and people don't use them.
Yeah.
So you can kind of tell who's going to take what you're saying and who's not, but-
That's true. Yeah
...
it doesn't have to be all one way or the other.
Yeah
There's many different ways to get to the same result, I'm sure.
So it was just-
Definitely
... it's interesting to see what's out there and to realize the whole,
everyone was telling me calories in, calories out, and I'm like, "But that didn't
work. I tried that."
Yeah.
"It didn't work."
I'm tired of that too.
Only to,
as I'm learning more about food,
the reason, in my opinion, I'm not a medical professional, but-
You're doing pretty good
...
our food isn't made the same.
Mm-mm. Something's wrong with it.
Yeah.
Something is wrong with our food.
It's not the same.
Yeah.
So the same calories in, calories out, maybe for whole food,
clean food, yes, that works.
Yes.
But if the damage is already done, we've got to go back and repair it so that-
Yeah
... calories in, calories out works.
Yes.
And that's what I'm working on now, is going back and repairing all the damage
that we did.
I love doing this stuff.
Deep to the mitochondria, right?
Yes.
Yes. I love it.
Yes. I love the u- Okay, did you know what that was prior to our-
No.
Okay.
I did not. But you have taught me so much.
And continue to teach me.
It's important to reset it, repair it.
Mm-hmm.
Otherwise, all of the other things aren't going to stick.
I believe the changes that you've made have added
benefit to your thyroid's mitochondria.
Your body's ability to regulate has everything to do with the
mitochondria and where they're located.
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm able to... Working on my nervous
system, of course, it was shot, so you've got to do all the other things, too.
The exercise and the meditation and taking time.
I was so good at taking care of everybody else-
Mm-hmm
... but I needed permission to take care of myself, and you gave me that.
And it sounds crazy that I needed permission to do it, but it feels
selfish when you try to give it for yourself, but it's not selfish when you're
doing it for someone else. So it was just so good, and now
everyone benefits from me taking care of myself so
...
I love it.
I have so much more energy. I can keep up with my grandbabies and keep up with all
of my animals, and help my family in a way that I couldn't before because the
energy just wasn't there, and the focus wasn't there.
That is just so cool. I love it.
Yes.
The steps that you took along the way.
So you recognized there's a gap between what you
knew and where you wanted to-
Mm-hmm
... be knowledgeable.
Right.
So learning from me, doing your own research, what were the
things that you were looking at online that you really found was the most
helpful?
I think
learning how our body processes
not just food, but there are so many people taking 20 vitamins
that-
Mm-hmm
... and maybe it's not doing anything, and they don't-
Just shots in the dark.
Yeah. And so learning how all of that works, and it seems like it's a lot of
work, but it's not. You can find
the simplest videos on YouTube looking up protocols.
It also matters the
web browser that you use.
Oh, yeah. You're right.
It will depend on the answers that you get.
That is such a good point. What's your preference?
I like DuckDuckGo.
Okay.
I am looking for another one because I'm noticing some
things. But I did get more information off of DuckDuckGo than I did
straight from Google.
Okay.
I felt like information was restricted on Google a little bit.
Interesting.
Maybe I wasn't wording it right.
No, you're correct with that.
But I just felt like you only got one or two answers.
Wasn't
a whole lot of information out there.
So,
yes, some on social media, but I would vet the information then
and not take it at face value.
Mm-hmm.
Do the deeper dive to make sure and verify the information that I'm seeing.
Yes.
Because with AI, you just never know.
No, and it does the hallucination thing, which is so weird.
Yes.
So it's reliable, reliable, now it's crazy. Like, what?
Yes. I'm like, okay, that went off in a different direction
than what I was looking for. I don't remember typing that word in, but-
Yeah. Or fake references.
Yes.
Fake papers, fake information, opposite information.
It has not arrived yet.
Yes.
And it's almost maybe intentional to maybe secure jobs-
Confuse
... and give confusion.
So that we don't do this ourselves, because if we're confused-
Yeah
... we'll just give up.
Yeah.
And so I looked for multiple resources that stated the
same thing, because when you have conflicting, you're only going to have one
or two that says this, but you're going to have 20 that say this other thing-
Yes
... if that's the legit thing.
Yes.
So, that's the direction I went with it.
So I changed my whole vitamin regimen, and I went back to
basics. I was taking 20, and- ... they
clearly weren't doing anything because I don't take any of those now.
And then I did. I followed the deep hole of peptides, and
learning about peptides also taught me about how our body works.
Right.
So-
It does
... you can't help but learn.
Yep.
Of course, I know some of these people will do things that maybe their body doesn't
need. I'm not that extreme, but-
Yeah
...
it's been life-changing. And you don't have to feel terrible.
You don't have to feel tired. It is not normal.
Yep.
I don't know. And it's addicting to
feel so good. Right? To just-
It almost feels wrong.
It does. I'm like,
okay, I am annoyingly happy at this point.
No, annoyingly. I agree.
And I say that, my family is just like, "What is wrong with you?"
I love that. Yeah, no, I have to dial it down.
It's like a behavior thing for me now.
Yes.
Other people will hate you for it. You know?
Yes.
You have too much energy.
Like, "What is the matter with you?"
Yeah.
"You drank too much coffee today." And I'm like, "I only had two cups."
Like the morning person that everybody is like, "Oh, okay."
Yes.
Like, "Good morning."
Yes. But it's
like I find myself saying hi to strangers.
Like-
Yes. I actually use that as a mile marker to some people when I try to help them
understand.
The question I'm always asked is, how do I know when my hormones
are working or if they're balanced or if they're right when we're starting a new
dose or-
Mm-hmm
... a new regimen? And my answer is typically, when you're saying good
morning to people, you're saying hi to your neighbor that you usually can't stand.
You are
tolerating people breathing that would otherwise be so irritating, or like the
chewing sounds of somebody.
Yes.
So you're like- Oh, you want some more?
Yes
That was delicious.
Dogs licking. I'd be like, "Stop that."
Yeah.
Yes.
But those things turn from annoying and bothersome
to
it doesn't bother you. It doesn't hit the same center-
Mm-hmm
... in your brain.
Yes. And I'm not
seeking... It's like we could just do a deep dive on it, but
I used to start one project, and then I'm distracted by another
one. Now I'm onto that one.
Your brain just functions better when everything is clean and you're
functioning the way that you're supposed to, and-
I love that
... then you're questioning more.
Mm-hmm.
Can be kind of a downside of things, but because now I'm like
it went bad. We went fresh milled flour bad.
Decisions get made.
Yes.
You shift out of bad patterns. You cause
change.
Yes.
And it's good for you. It doesn't mean it's always good for peop- some people-
I think my whole-
Yeah
... yes, my whole family is just like, "Oh, what is she going to have us doing
now?" There is no junk food in this house.
Not unless I make it.
Contraband.
Yes. And it's not perfection, it's progress.
Yeah.
And because there's always ways to improve, but
perfection just isn't... It's not logical.
Mm-hmm.
And so being realistic with myself and doing these
things and just implementing it where
it works-
Yeah
... is
the goal, so.
Yes. Did you find it was challenging?
So as you were saying, you are searching the internet, you're using different
search engines, and then
here's the medical community. We are very
divided on this front. We have different
opinions. And I would say this is the most,
I would say, diverse-
Mm-hmm
... time probably than it's been in a very long time.
Because we all start at the same place, and then now you have all these different
doctors that are, "Never take peptides, they're dangerous.
Only have good resources. The gray space." There's all these
opinions. It's very abstract.
Yes.
None of it is very clear black and white, and simple.
Yeah. And I think
it's hard to speak on behalf of those doctors who are against things or maybe just
don't know.
So it was important to keep an open mind on what everyone was saying and try to
see their viewpoint on it, because maybe they have a good point, even if it sounds
kind of negative.
Mm-hmm.
But it just made me want to research more because
they clearly feel that way for a reason, so.
Mm-hmm.
While I do look into it more than the average person probably,
but that's why I just try to like-
... annoy people with the information that I have because I have to get it out.
I can't keep it in. I have to give it to somebody so that I'm not just-
No, they need to know.
Yeah. And so I'm just going to share what I learned so that you don't have to do so
much work.
Yeah.
You don't have to-
That's how I feel.
Yes.
I feel exactly like that.
Well, I'm going to blame it on you because I think you started it.
Okay, but you know what started it for me?
What?
Is I have been personally affected.
Yeah.
I didn't feel good. I have had weight up and down.
I have had highs and lows in my life, and things that shifted my health
to where I could barely even walk down the street because my asthma was too bad,
or
just regulating your circadian rhythm, just the feeling tired.
I never felt tired, I never felt rested.
Mm-hmm.
I just was in this, I felt disconnected from my body.
Yes.
I felt horrible.
Yes.
All the time.
You just didn't belong. I just didn't belong in this body. This can't be...
This can't be my body.
Yes.
There's got to be a mistake somewhere. Let me send this one back.
Right?
Yeah.
I need a refund.
In my mind, I loved exercise.
Mm-hmm.
I loved learning, I enjoyed people,
animals, activities. But the reality is my body was
not performing.
Yeah.
And hitting those moments in my life when everything
in my mind was not matching up with the reality, I was just very
frustrated. Nobody can help you. There's all these different
categories that people are... It's like grasping at straws.
Yeah.
The recommendations for this or that. I had tried all the supplements.
You just don't feel good. You're just dragging a carcass around.
Yeah. And adding the supplements that don't work almost make you feel
worse.
Based on nothing. You're like, "I'm going to try this because I hear it's good for
you."
Yeah. And
then it's just like you're taken in by the
influencers and all of the commercials that are really good at putting that in your
face to convince-
Yeah
... you that that's the right thing.
Mm-hmm.
But we're
in the age of information, and it can be a bad thing.
Mm-hmm.
It's because you're only getting half information, and you need whole information
to make the decision.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that's where people lose patience.
Of course, we're all ADHD in some way, so-
Mm-hmm
... move on to the next thing because the information- ... was too hard to get.
Yeah.
So I just
think that if everyone slows down a little bit and realizes things aren't like they
used to be-
Mm-hmm
... you do have to read labels more.
Things aren't as they seem.
Mm-hmm.
You'll get it, and it'll slowly just start coming in more and more, and
then-
Yeah
... you're going to feel empowered and want to do more for yourself and more for
your family, because-
Yeah
... I can't imagine feeling like I did a year ago.
It's just a crazy transformation, physically and-
Yes
... mentally
and everything in between.
Yes. I think
I was
185 pounds the day I came to see you.
Wow.
And I am at a healthy weight. I try not to focus
on scales because now we're working on building strength
and-
Yes
... mobility because all of those things are important to keep-
Mm-hmm
... from slowly letting my body get tired again, so.
Yes.
We just focus on that.
But just being where I'm at and having the energy to do all of the things is just
so good.
To conquer the world. That's all.
Yes. Now I'm like, "Now what can I do?"
Tell people about it.
Yes. My husband is just like, "All right.
What is she going to get into next?" Because we were talking about it.
Has he had transformation?
He has.
Yes.
He has lost weight, and he wasn't big to begin with,
but I would say the biggest thing for our family is
inflammation. The amount of inflammation that everyone in my family, and yes, I
mean everyone in my family, was carrying-
... from the things that are in our food-
It made everybody look different.
I'm like, "Hey, I remember you."
Yeah. The face changes. The way your shirts fit.
Yes.
Your waist
circumference is different.
The way you can then hold yourself again.
You're not just rounded over and tired and heavy and-
Yes
... my husband is down, I think, 25, 30 pounds.
Geez, that's great.
No longer needs blood pressure medication. Sorry babe, I'm sharing your info here.
Sign the release.
Yeah. Trying to--
Doctors are like, "Oh, cholesterol medication." Their first answer is a statin.
That's what we're trained.
Guess who doesn't need that?
Well, actually, we are trained to say lifestyle modification, but then there's no
really
clear definition to that. And then if you're somebody who has all these things
you're juggling at once, plus-
Mm-hmm
... stress and you're not sleeping and you're choosing poor food choices, you can't
really stick to that lifestyle change.
Yeah. And it's just lucky for him, he has
me to regulate him and control what he eats, but-
He's so lucky. I love this for him
... he's been struggling. Right. He's the first to tell you he feels so much
better.
And it's the same thing, he's a papa, so he's got to have the energy to keep
up with grandbabies, too.
Yes.
And our kids, they're still active, and he's got to be able to keep up with me now,
so.
And so it's just the same thing, though. I had high cholesterol.
They were bugging me. I'm like, "I'm not taking that."
Mm-hmm. But your thyroid wasn't where it should be, so you cannot correct the
cholesterol component until you correct the Hashimoto's.
Yeah. And I wanted-
That's what we did
... I wanted proof. Show me proof that I am making too much cholesterol for my
body-
Yeah
... instead of I'm just not able to do what I'm supposed to do with it.
Mm-hmm.
And they couldn't prove that, so.
Love it.
Just going to have to wait, sir.
And now I don't need it, so.
It's interesting. Some would argue that you can just always try
harder. That
somebody's lazy if they use any peptides, and that it's, in a sense,
cheating to use any of that stuff.
What would you say to that?
Everyone's entitled to their opinions.
Let me bring out-
Amen.
Yeah.
Bring it. I don't think it's cheating.
It is, like I said, you're resetting your body back to the
factory settings. We've done so many things to ourselves that
none of the other stuff is going to do what it's supposed to do if your body
doesn't function right, so-
Mm-hmm
... it's not even about the weight loss or
using the shot as weight loss. The other things that these things did
for me,
put weight loss aside,
the amount of joint pain that I had and inflammation.
My shoes fit different now.
Isn't that weird?
I used to get restless leg so bad that I think I would kick my husband in my sleep.
Oh my gosh.
Straight donkey kick him.
A lot of people struggle with that.
Yes. And it makes you crazy because you wake up feeling tired because you were
running all night.
I should be in better shape for the amount of restless leg I had.
Why are my calves not more developed with this?
Right. And so I
can see where they might think it's cheating, but
it's repair in my opinion.
Mm-hmm.
It's so much more important to fix it.
And then
I think being this way, I'll just put it bluntly, using peptides
is much better than the way I was living life before. That wasn't healthy, so.
Yeah. No. Same. And it's not
for lack of trying. It's just there is something deficient.
Mm-hmm.
You don't know quite what it is, but if we know what can mostly get
that back to center-
Yeah
... then let's do that.
Yeah.
And it's not forever.
No, none of them are forever.
Once you repair it, as long as you keep doing the right things.
Yes.
Now, of course, at least if you
fall off the wagon or
do something that maybe causes an inflammatory reaction-
Mm-hmm
... you have tools there to get you back, and you don't have to continue to just
downslide and end up down in the ditch where you were before.
You don't stay back there.
Yes.
You're like, "Get up."
Yeah.
"Get back to it."
Exactly. So I think it's great to have tools.
That's the way that they initially considered medication.
It was a tool-
Yes
... to fix this, but-
Yes. That's what I say. Why are we so
up in arms about the latest
peptide or whatever? If we're not happy with how they came
about, well then somebody pour some of their own millions into this and let's make
it right.
Yeah.
It's just money. It's just a few millions, maybe a billion. That's all.
I was just going to say, I'm like, "Oh, it's money."
Yeah.
I even had insurance. The insurance company played a huge
role in me not being able to get the care that I
needed and telling me, "We're not paying for your blood work."
Yeah.
"You didn't need it." Well, how do you know?
What was the, I guess the diagnosis?
Hashimoto's was not good enough?
Well, first I was denied seeing an endocrinologist
from my primary after being diagnosed with Hashimoto's, saying I didn't need
one.
Okay.
That was the legit reason I was given. You don't need one.
Oh, my.
Okay.
You're like, "But I have it."
And you know who? Now, this was coming from the insurance department, not even from
another doctor.
Right.
Yeah. I'm like, "Okay. Well, let me ask somebody else.
I'm not taking that as an answer." And they were like, "Well, the treatment is the
same. It's the same as the medication you're already on." Okay, but I don't want to
know about treatment. I want to know why I have it.
And I think I really irritated them.
Yeah. Why is that question so annoying?
That's the kind of questions I like to ask, and I encourage
patients and everybody to ask because how do we get
here? If I would've started with those questions-
Exactly
... I would've never ended up to how bad I felt at one point.
Yeah. And well, because I want to know what not to do again.
Of course.
Like, okay, well, how did I get here?
Oh, it was these three things that I ate or these three
lifestyle changes-
Yes
... that I need to incorporate and keep.
Yes.
And so it was just very frustrating to be told that I didn't need the
endocrinologist, I don't need blood work.
Even once I initially got put on thyroid medication, they told me which kind I
could have, that I didn't need a bioidentical. Synthetic was just fine.
Now what do you think?
I'll refrain from...
Do you have a preference?
There is a difference. I have a preference.
I felt sicker on synthetic than I do on bioidentical, and
I don't even think it's that big of a difference for insurance,
but what do I know about the finances of it?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it made a big difference, and it took you to make that change for me.
Oh, yay.
You were the one that changed it. The others would not change it.
One doctor that I saw said he would change it, but he didn't know anything about
it.
He was willing.
He was willing, but
I was kind of nervous then to do the switch with him because I'm like...
It's the first time.
Okay, well.
"Is this your first one?" Yes, it is.
Yeah. I'm like, "Okay, well, I don't know if I want to...
I'm willing to help you learn, but-"
I mean.
"Kind of scary when I'm already not feeling good."
He was honest. I appreciate that.
Yes.
And I know that has to be hard for them, too.
And because you guys are trained a specific way, it's like I
can't fault him because he's going off of what he was taught.
So-
Yeah
... but maybe I triggered something in him and maybe he went home and did some
research or
took another seminar or something like that, and it inspired
him. But I'm just-
That is a thing. In fact-
Yes
... I would encourage you or anybody listening, if there's something that is
important to you, I would say give your doctor or provider a
chance to learn about it. Maybe at the time of the visit,
he honestly told you, "I don't know anything about this," but he was open to it
and interested. So that might be all it takes to push somebody to get
the certification, take the courses-
Mm-hmm
... become the expert, and they can help more people that way.
Yeah. I think maybe they're intimidated by
whether it's insurance or
if they're working in an office setting where it's not encouraged, but hopefully
sharing just everything that I've done and everything that I've gone through, it
inspires more people to be in charge of their life and
their health because the doctors can't help you if you're not honest and if you
don't advocate for yourself.
Yes. Absolutely. When it comes to your
food choices, what does that look like in terms of what you changed?
Changed a lot of processed food. That's clearly where the issue
is, where most of the toxicity is. So switching
to, and I'm still kind of up in the air, organic versus non-organic.
Mm-hmm.
There's so many things out there saying, "Oh, it's all from the same field."
Haven't been able to get legit answers on that yet, so I offer anybody to
point me in the right direction on that.
But,
I try to shop the farmers' markets, shop local, support local,
and then
limit the processed food because-
Yep
... it is hard to cut it out, and sometimes you're in a hurry, or sometimes it's a
really busy day. But
changing that,
like I brought up the fresh milled flour, I am still learning.
Props to anybody who's doing it really good because I'm still learning.
It's-
Like making bread and-
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
But it
has so much more flavor, and
it
has so many things in it that I think it's actually maybe why so many people have
gut issues because-
Oh, I'm sure
... all that stuff's been taken out of our bread-
Yes
... put back in synthetically.
Yes.
And the body's like, "What is this?"
It's like, "I don't know what this is.
It feels like a plastic of some sort."
Right?
"We'll just store it for a minute-"
Kind of what I think it is
"... till we can figure it out."
Yeah, and it just makes everything taste better.
You don't feel terrible after you eat it.
Yeah.
And it's kind of fun.
Yeah. So you changed out processed foods,
and did you find it was difficult? I know now it's probably
easier, but initially starting out, you had to figure out what
tastes good, what can you tolerate, what makes you feel full and
enjoy eating, because some people find a lot of their pleasure
from food.
That is probably where,
and this might be where people say, "Oh, it's cheating." That is where
using something like Reda TrueTide helped.
It helps your mind settle down so you're not
overthinking the choice.
You can make the choice without
thinking, "Okay, how many calories is this? What is this?
Oh, you know what?" Immediately you feel guilty, so you're just going to eat the
bad thing. Oh, well. It really settled my brain down to where I didn't
overthink eating and I didn't overthink food, and I could just go in there and make
the better choices in the grocery store.
And then once you're clean eating for so long, your palate changes, and those other
things-
It does
... just don't sound good. And then when you eat them, you're like,
"This doesn't taste like what I remember it tasted like," so.
Yeah, it doesn't give you that dopamine.
No.
It's gross, in fact.
Yeah. And then, especially if you've been clean for a long time, when you eat it
the next day, you're kind of like, "I will never do that again." It's like a bad
food hangover.
Stays with you. Yeah, it is a hangover.
Yes. Your body is just like, "What did I do to make you mad?"
Yeah.
Like, "Why did you do this to me?"
Yeah.
But I also did,
with the information I got from you, I did a gut microbiome test. Eye-opening.
People-
... do your gut microbiome test.
See? Isn't it such a game changer?
I did not know
the information you could get from that, and it was so easy to
do, very interesting, and it's another thing that changed the
way I picked out the food that I ate.
I love that.
Yes. And once I corrected it, I can eat more foods.
Yes.
So all the things that did give me a stomachache don't affect me in that way
anymore, so.
Because you healed your gut lining.
Yes. And you're not like, "Okay, well, I have this event
that I'm going to. I can't eat anything because then I'm going to look seven months
pregnant."
You know?
That's so frustrating.
It is. You want to look cute the whole night.
A flat stomach.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. And so
it's easy to say, "Oh, I'm just going to do the blood work," but if you're being
encouraged to do these other things, trust the process.
Mm-hmm.
I would love to do the deeper dive and do the other things that you've told us
about, the other
deeper gene testing and all of that stuff.
Yeah.
It's just so interesting to me.
The DNA Intellect.
Yes.
I love it.
Because I've even wondered, you have a doctor say, "Oh, well, it's
your family history."
Okay.
I have a problem with family history because are they taking into
consideration the environment of that generation?
You are so right.
Is it due to the genetics of my family, or is it due to the environment of my
family-
Ooh, that's good
... and the choices that my family made?
That's awesome. Yeah.
Yes. My mother passed away from lung cancer.
She was a heavy smoker throughout my childhood.
She quit when
my daughter was born. It was kind of a stipulation.
But there's no history of cancer in my
maternal side other than my mom. Well, now because my mom has had it,
it's in my family history. But is it because...
What was her age of diagnosis?
68.
Okay. It's technically not considered a family history related,
so under 65. It's those younger cancer
diagnoses-
Mm-hmm
... that are within the stats.
Yeah, and
again-
Yeah. Yay.
... every doctor tells you a different thing.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, I have a brain that questions everything.
No, fortunately.
That's so good. Because, look, it saved you. It saved your family.
I feel like it's changed everybody who has come in contact with you.
It's such a good thing.
I hope so. I hope that I have
helped people in some way because,
like I say, annoyingly happy.
Yes.
And I just want to spread it.
That's my motto for everyone.
It feels like there are so many sad people.
When I walk around town, I just feel like everybody's angry or sad or just doesn't
feel good, and
you just want to change it.
Yes.
I just want to change it.
Yes, and thoughts of irritability are
still in that category, and a lot of people don't put that
together. Your will to live, your interest, your curiosity,
your saying hi to neighbors, your wanting to be
around friends and just enjoy
life.
Yes.
That is a really great state.
Yes.
That's the goal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it inspired me to work on, I wasn't someone who
set boundaries. I was-
Yeah
... childhood trauma, so as you start to feel better, you're like, "I'm going to
work on these other things." And so it makes for better relationships around
you, and
it just improves things all around.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
So when it comes to hormone replacement,
would you be open to mentioning anything about that?
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
What you started with, what your first experience was.
How fast did you feel more like yourself?
I
want to say it was immediate. I was feeling so terrible.
Yes.
So terrible.
I would say by day two or three that we started, I was
like, "I feel her coming back."
I love it.
Okay. You know what? Not even that.
The first night
of starting progesterone, I slept through the night.
Yes.
And I was happier the next day. I wasn't grumpy.
Isn't that amazing?
And then you
can't regulate your nervous system if you're not getting enough sleep.
Sleep is now one of my priorities. Didn't used to
be. I was a-
Same.
You know what? I can live on four hours of sleep.
Yeah.
My family has things I got to do, so I'm just going to set my alarm and it is what
it is.
Nothing a myth.
Yeah. Baloney.
It's baloney.
And so immediately the sleep got better, immediate.
But just slowly, the rest of it
just all started to click, and then
I want to say I saw you two weeks later.
We made a few little tweaks, and then from there, it just-
Oh, yay.
... just went off the rails, right?
So much joy for me to hear this.
Yes.
It really is.
Because when you're not feeling
like you even belong in this body, it's so hard to even want to try anything
anymore, and especially when you've had so many doctors tell you that, "This is it.
You're just going to feel this way."
Mm-hmm.
It can make you even more depressed, like, "Really, this is it?"
Yeah. So then you'll get a Zoloft, then you'll get a Wellbutrin.
You'll get some sort of antidepressant.
Oh, yeah. They were recommended.
Prescription.
They were prescribed, never filled, because I'm like-
Yeah
... "No, there has to be... There's more."
Yeah.
The worst thing you can do is tell me no, and-
Mm-hmm
... my husband can attest to that.
Yeah. I do not like being told no.
I don't like it either.
Yeah. And so when you tell me, "No, this is it," bet.
We'll see.
Yeah. And so it was just
so great to just have you listen and have all of those tools.
Mm-hmm.
That's the thing, just having all of those tools-
... ready for me to use and not be told,
like,
"Oh, you don't need that," or, "Oh, it's dangerous," or, "Oh,
it's..." And I think that's the thing.
So many women and probably men, I didn't even realize how many men our
age are probably dealing with some type of imbalance thanks to all-
They're suffering.
Yeah.
Yeah. They are.
And because men are quiet, they're not allowed to talk about those things.
Yes.
And
to know that there is something out there and that everybody can feel this good,
I'm telling you guys, everybody can feel this good.
It's true.
And so it's just like, okay, I have to start getting people to
see.
Mm-hmm.
Like...
Yeah, it's crazy because it used to be thought that any sort of hormone replacement
would give you cancer.
Mm-hmm.
But now we know the medical board has rescinded that.
It's a complete and fully endorsed by all
the boards that it is not true.
Yeah.
This is fake. So,
I can understand why so many years, this is what you're taught as doctors.
So, we are taught that the Earth is round, and-
Mm-hmm
... the medical things that we know to be true are in fact true, and we proceed
with the information that we have.
But now it's important that providers
really stay current, stay active, and
know these things, and be aware of the shifts because-
Yeah
... it's profound.
If I can find the information-
It's out there to be found.
You sound like you're good at it, though.
Well,
I
won't leave it alone until I have the answer, and that's part of the problem, but-
That's awesome
...
and that's why I'm just like, okay, well, now that I have the answer, I'm just
going to make it easier for everybody else to find, because-
I agree
... maybe I did spend a little longer than I should've and let something else
kind of go by the wayside for a little bit.
It's hard to balance all of the things, but-
Yes
... I
want people to know that things, like you said, they took the label off, I actually
knew that they took the label off long before they ever announced it because, like
I say-
Wow
... the information is out there.
Yes.
They just don't promote it.
They don't. And if you're the provider who just goes to
work and then goes home, we're not really watching that much TV or
news. That's fair. But at some point
at least-
Right
... get on the newsletter. I subscribe to different newsletters, so like the
DEA is, they have new things come about-
Mm-hmm
... it hits my email.
Oh, okay.
So you have to enroll yourself into these things to
get access to it-
Yeah
... instantly.
Yeah. And I don't use the news as information, I use it as
maybe a trigger point to research something.
Like when I hear it I'm like, "Really?"
Oh, really? That's-
Really
... that's not me.
Let me just check into this.
Yeah.
Like-
We'll see
... yeah.
The freedom of information,
it's good and bad-
Yeah
... but I'm going to use the good side of it and
just-
Yeah
... if you don't like what I'm saying, I'm open to find something else and-
Go read about it, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. There are so many, like you said, literature, newsletters.
Some doctors even post pictures of the newsletters that they get for the
public to read because-
I'm doing that more because I want to have conversation.
Yeah.
It's not to p**s people off, it's to start conversation.
So to me, that is how we make the real change.
Yeah. And that's you spreading the information that you give
has inspired me to look into all of that because until we're given permission by
even just one medical professional who's like, "I'm telling you there's more and
you just kind of need to
look."
There's thousands of us.
Yes. More and more.
Yeah.
More and more, and I love it, and I just follow every single one
so that I can just continue to learn.
And when people are like, "I can't find a doctor here," I'm like,
"I know somebody." Because
it's just so hard to watch these people just not feel good and just be told, "Well,
this is it."
And just feel hopeless. Yeah.
Yeah.
I know. I agree.
Yeah. And some people aren't brave enough to go down a peptide rabbit
hole or try those things without the reassurance of a physician.
Mm-hmm.
And that's totally understandable, too.
Yes.
But again, that's where you come in and I just say, "Well, go see her because..."
Because you know that I care, and you are living proof.
Yeah.
You're living proof, and you really wanted this for yourself.
You wanted it for yourself before, but the tools weren't there.
Yeah.
So then once you just found the tools, then it's like, doom.
Yeah.
Look at you. It's awesome. So people can change their life.
They're not stuck-
Yeah
... ever in their situation, in their body, in
however they might be feeling. There's options, there's people, there's things,
there's tools. You just have to keep looking.
Yeah. And use what other people are telling you.
I'm sure not every person wants to learn how to read blood work, not every person
wants to learn about as deep as I've gone into it,
but you benefit from learning just a little bit of those things.
You can get yourself better care if you just learn a little bit-
Yes
... about
everything.
Right.
How everything functions. Like learning that insurance companies play a huge part
in our care.
I know.
Why? But-
I know. It almost sounds crazy, but there's algorithms that
we're supposed to follow, and to go outside of that, you're just a lone ranger
standing by yourself.
Yeah. I didn't know that they had that kind of power.
Oh, yeah.
Because that is what it seems like.
It's a power grab, like let's-
It is
... restrict because if we're sick, we can't question.
Right.
If we're sick, we are just going to go with the motions and-
Mm-hmm
... not
do the things that they don't want us doing-
Mm-hmm
... is what it feels like. It all feels intentional.
Yeah. It sort of does. I know. There's definitely good, there's
bad on both sides. So on one hand, yes, there's safety in having a
regulatory board and all of these checkpoints-
Mm-hmm. Yeah
... and these prolonged trials that are required, but at the same
time, there is corruption that we know exists.
There is another side, a dark side that is always at
play.
Yeah.
And ideally, good always wins, but that's not
always true, and it's not always-
Yeah
... immediate.
Yeah.
And some people just don't have the energy for that, but-
Right
... I do hope that physicians start
to do like what you did. You trusted what I was telling you about how I felt.
You-
Mm-hmm. I believed you.
Yeah.
Everyone feels like they're being questioned, like they're not believed.
And
even as my mom's caregiver, I had
some medical doctors, I would tell them something about what she was dealing with,
and they didn't want to hear it. "Oh, no, that's not the case." But then I had some
who were like, "You know her better than anybody.
We're going to take what you're saying." And-
Mm-hmm
... there were things that went missed by one, but because they listened to me-
Mm-hmm
... found the things that I knew were there.
Mm-hmm.
And that's maybe it's also a fit, like a
physician-patient fit. There's a fit for everybody.
Yes. I love that you said that. It's true because I can't help everybody.
Yeah.
But there's a lot of people that I can help, and you never know on the patient side
or on the provider side who
feels triggered.
Mm-hmm.
There's just an underlying familiarity
that somebody, some stranger might pick up-
Yeah
... and something about you is similar to somebody they don't like,
and they just don't like you.
Yeah. But at least you can point them in the right-- You know what?
I think maybe this one would be a good fit, or-
Yes
... maybe that physician can tell them, "You know what?
She'd be a good fit." And so it's
like shoes, you just got to try them.
Yeah, you just try them on. You don't have to buy them, you just try them on.
Yeah. And eventually you'll get where you're supposed to be.
It's-
Mm-hmm
... everything happens for a reason.
Yeah.
The path that I took to get to you is ... is a crazy one.
And I've met so many wonderful people who led me there, and just
doing things out of the norm for myself.
And so-
... do the thing. It's scary, but do it.
I love that. Ugh. Well, as of today, how many
days per week are you really lifting or exercising?
What does it look like now to maintain?
I am not exercising like I would like to.
Most of my exercise comes from chasing
grandbabies.
They're two under two.
So most of my activeness comes from that and caring for animals, of course.
Animals take a lot of...
and it ranges from chickens to horses, of course.
But-
Oh, I love horses
... I do try to do at least body weight stuff.
You can squat while you curl your hair.
You can-
Yep
... grab a dumbbell while you're brushing your teeth.
Mm-hmm.
Just wherever you can fit it in. But
I don't bully myself if I'm not able to.
That was-
Good. Self-shaming is another part of the journey.
Yes. "Oh, I said I was going to do this, and I didn't do it.
Forget it, I'm just-"
Yeah
"... not good at this." No, I'm going to-
It's like letting yourself down.
Yeah. I'm going to do it where I can.
But changing the food and sleep
is still the priority. That's something that will always
come first.
Mm-hmm.
And I can't do the rest of it without that.
Mm-hmm.
But I'm wanting to incorporate more weightlifting,
flexibility-
Yep
... all of the things that, you see these videos of these 70-year-old people-
Yeah
... who are like, I'm like, "Okay."
They're ripped.
"She could take me."
They are so strong.
Yes. And they just look like they're enjoying life.
And I don't want to quit enjoying life. I want to keep feeling this way.
And thankfully,
if family history is a thing, I have family members that lived into their early
100s, so.
This is great news for you.
Yes.
I love hearing that. Is this on your mom's side, dad's side, or both?
Both.
This is great news.
Yes, so-
Okay. Love it
... my poor husband is stuck with me.
What about his family?
He does have family member, some family members have lived into their late 90s.
I believe one into 100, his
great-grandmother that I did get to meet. I believe she was 99 when she passed.
That is great.
Yes. So that's the thing, just better life choices and habits.
I think we're stuck with each other for a long time.
Oh, this is really romantic. I love it.
That's already been... We were high school sweethearts, been together since we were
15, so.
Oh, wow. I didn't know that part.
It's been a long time, babe.
Oh, wow. So as of now, you have
horses. Asking for a friend,
Western, English, do you ride often?
Do you do trails-
I-
... compete?
... I don't do any of that. I am a rescue horse mom.
My daughter is the one who was into horses. It was always her thing.
She did barrels, cutting, and reining.
I enjoyed watching her. I would trail ride with her when I felt comfortable on
a horse.
The horse that I have now,
he was burned in a fire here in town-
Oh
... in 2017. He was not mine when he got burned.
Oh my gosh.
My daughter stepped in to help the owner,
and when the owner realized that he wasn't going to look like he did
before, he just said, "Oh, well, I can't do anything with him, so you like horses,
you can have him."
Aw.
And my daughter was just like, "What?"
How old was he at the time?
Well, we were told by the owner that he was only four or five, but-
Good grief
... his teeth said he was seven or eight.
Wow.
Now, it's kind of hard to say after being burned.
He was burned on over 80% of his body, third degree burns.
Ah, this is horrible.
It was horrible to watch. But I got attached really easy.
My daughter took me out to see him. I got attached really easy.
And,
I just fell in love, and he is ornery, and
sweet-
... and a jokester, and he came to me in a time,
my mom was sick at the time, so I needed somebody, and he just came along right at
the right time. And, so he'll live out his life with me.
He can be ridden, but I don't because
he's been through a lot, so-
Yeah
... he don't need to be carrying me around.
He can just have fun, eat some hay.
Yeah. So he just-
Be in the sun
... lives out his days getting pampered. He still gets lotions put on.
He does have areas where he doesn't grow hair.
And he doesn't have any ears left.
Oh my goodness.
But-
Poor guy
... but he can't tell anymore. He just- ...
lives his life like, "I'm just out here being normal." But when you're out-
... people come to the property and they're like, "What is wrong with him?" I'm
like-
We could get prosthetics
... "What is wrong with you?"
He-
Yeah. Well, he's great. What's the deal?
He's perfect. He's, yes, and it-
You're never invited again.
Yes. And of course, once they hear his story, they all say the same thing, so.
But yeah, he's the only one that I have. Horses are otherwise my daughter's thing.
But I can thank her for bringing us together,
so.
Oh, that's beautiful. What's his name?
Boss.
Boss.
Yes.
He's a total boss, but a lover boy too.
Yeah. He can be a brat to people he
doesn't like. He used to be so mean to my husband, but I think since he's realized
that's who pays his vet bills, so- ... he's nicer to him now.
But,
he was, I believe 31 horses died that day, and he was one
of three that survived.
This is horrible. Wow.
Yes. I believe they call it the Cottonwood Fire.
Ugh, my gosh.
But it was a sad thing to see. There were two fires that day, one
out on Cottonwood Road and one in Oildale.
And so it was a bad fire year. Of course, for us, every year is a bad
fire year, but having so many animals.
He did get to go to
UC Davis for six weeks. Dr. Madigan there,
a well-known vet, he said that he had money left over from a fire that they had
there, so he invited Boss to come and stay there because we were in over our heads.
How do you care for a horse that's-
Oh, no
... his whole body was peeling. It was a giant blister, and it was peeling, so.
Thankfully, the people at Davis were so great.
He got so much-
Gosh
... care there. Manuka honey.
Like-
Yeah
... the fish scales
...
what was the nutrition like?
So
the way that they said, they put the fish skin-
Mm-hmm
... on the really, really bad parts.
But he got soaked in Manuka honey every day.
So he would get bathed in the morning, Manuka honey and then this suit
over him to cover it all up, and he would wear that overnight.
And then the next day they would bathe him, debride some more, coat him back in
Manuka honey and
Was the fish
fresh skin?
I don't know because-
Or like grounds?
... that was back when-- I was grossed out by that sight.
Yeah.
He smelled sweet and then really stinky. Sweet and then stinky.
He
smelt like
burnt flesh for a really long time.
Oh, Boss.
I would just be like-
Buddy
... "I'm going to love on you, but you smell so terrible."
But it was a heartbreaking thing to smell, too, because you knew what he had
gone through. I didn't get to see him the day that he
got burned, but the pictures that I saw within 24 hours,
and it just
made me feel so terrible for him. And so many people, we got so much backlash.
"You should euthanize him." He wasn't ours to euthanize, the owner-
Backlash? That's crazy
... we were torturing him.
Oh my God.
Yeah. Because the photos were terrible. But we were sharing his story.
Would we put a human down? Come on. You just walk through it. You heal.
Well, and he gave UC Davis an opportunity to see what treatments
worked-
Mm-hmm
... for when this happens again, because it will happen again, because situations
like that are happening all the time where people can't afford to build the
facilities that they need, so they use
other materials and-
Mm-hmm
... or fire preparedness for ranches.
There's a lot of people who don't plan for that.
So it really-
Oh, gosh
... I think got a lot of people thinking, like, "Oh, okay, we need to have a plan."
Is his skin elastic enough so he can walk or move?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Yeah, he can get down and roll around.
Now, the long-term effect, he got burned really bad on his face,
so the ligaments, all of the tendons and stuff in his face, his lip
does not close.
Oh my gosh.
The skin fused under his chin, and so his bottom
lip hangs. Like he's pouting all the time.
So-
He's the sweetest thing.
And his ears are only about an inch long, so he looks like a raccoon up top and
then-
... just like he's pouting. He's just mad all the time.
Like a grandpa.
Yeah. Just a grumpy old man. And so his face doesn't have a lot of
hair. He
had a corneal ulcer in one eye that ruptured, so he is blind in one eye.
Oh my gosh, Boss.
Yes, but he's spoiled, so-
Yeah
... he's living the good life and-
He can chew.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah. He gets chronic dry mouth and bad breath.
So, but-
We should work on his gut health. I wonder if we can give him probiotics.
So
he recently developed ulcers.
In his stomach?
Yes, from changing his grain.
Oh.
And so I took what I learned from my gut health-
Yeah
...
and we've been working on things.
Yes.
And so-
Okay. What'd you do?
So we did have to call the vet out. He did have to get Ulcergard, which
is omeprazole.
Mm-hmm.
He did two-week treatment of that.
We changed his feed back to what he was on before, because as I started reading
ingredients, I realized what we switched him to was not
good. And-
Oh
... it has since trickled down to my dogs.
And so now my dogs are getting a diet change because of gut health and-
My dogs are on peptides. Or my dogs, I have one.
My little dog, Son, he's on peptides, collagen.
But-
And I-
There's so much more out there
... Yes, and I do see people doing BPC for
their dogs.
Yes.
I am not brave enough to-- I would love to just see more on it first.
I'm not brave enough to do it, being that they can't tell me specifically-
Mm-hmm
... what they're experiencing, but
so we started with diet, and so they're half raw, half kibble,
and a cleaner kibble than what we were doing, so-
That's great
... adding a probiotic to there because they're all seven and over, so-
Wow
... they're older, so
things are happening. So we have to make changes.
That is really cool. Thanks for sharing that.
If there's any vets out there who would love to give
us dosing recommendations privately, please do.
Oral BPC-
Mm-hmm
... is what I'm thinking for the gut.
Mm-hmm.
BPC-157,
I take that. I feel like-
Yeah
... it's very healing.
Yes.
My cousin gives that to her Great Dane.
Mm-hmm.
He's doing wonderful with it. And it seems like it also cleared up some skin
issues.
Yeah.
So a lot of different purposes for it.
In the trials, I know that there's not a lethal dose that's been
identified.
Mm-hmm.
So safety-wise, it sounds very broad.
There was a study that mentioned 80 milligrams being given in one
day to, I want to say this was a primate.
I'm going to read about it to see which study-
Mm
... it actually was, if this was an animal or human.
But it was 80 milligrams given-
Okay
... in one dose. So with any intervention or therapy, you always want to identify
how much is lethal.
Yeah.
So we don't actually know the answer to that for
BPC.
Okay.
So,
yeah. I'm excited to see wherever the science leads for that.
Yeah.
Other fun fact, today, there were four peptides that were
presented, and there was a vote on making those
move forward in very legitimate ways.
So I know it was BPC, TB500, KPV. I
don't know what the fourth one was.
So we have to look that up after this.
Yes. Now I have to look it up because I'm going to want to know all the
information.
Yes.
I also heard today, and I have not been able to verify, so take it for what
it's worth, that Eli Lilly applied for
Retatrutide to be a biologic.
I love that. That makes the most sense for it.
So or it could be non-biologic. What is the one where they make money off
of it?
Pharmaceutical. So the biologic-
It was-
... versus a peptide is just the length of it and what they mix with
it.
They used an abbreviation, that's why I'm a little
forgetful on the term, but it was like BML or B... It started with a B.
Mm-hmm.
And so
just for the people who are out there watching Retatrutide, just know next steps
are happening.
Don't let it scare you away-
Mm-hmm
... or think that--
I know a lot of these people are doing their own thing and getting access to it.
Mm-hmm.
So I don't see it affecting-
It's a matter of time
... it's so far out there that-
Yeah
... it's going to be hard to reel everybody back in.
Yeah, and there's definitely a range of peptides that are more
cavalier to try-
Mm-hmm
... versus others that are pretty
well-versed, and they're very diverse in different groups-
Mm-hmm
... and countries have tried, and animals, humans.
There's
so much to say about each individual one.
So I think as we talk about them, really just identifying which one
has the higher tier of evidence behind it-
Mm-hmm
... versus those that are more adventurous.
Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah.
But it's exciting to see
all of the things happening and all of the things that-
Yes
... people are talking about because this was all hush-hush
and not-
Mm-hmm
... being discussed before.
Mm-hmm.
So I love seeing more and more people talking about it and-
We're just asking questions.
Yeah. I just want answers.
Yeah.
Same.
Don't tell me I can't have them because I'm going to find them then.
That means we have to find them.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, if you're hiding it, it has to be good.
It has to be really good.
We have to know it. If you're making it a secret-
Yeah.
... we have to know.
Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.
You are a living proof example that you can heal yourself.
You can take the tools, implement behaviors, and change your life, change others,
and it's awesome. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
All right, guys. That's a wrap for today, and glad to
have you on.
Thanks for having me.