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Monèt and Quay welcome the inspiring Wesley Morris, a true North Carolina native, activist, and Reverend, who shares his journey from the church pews to political organizing in the streets. Wesley reflects on how growing up in a tight-knit church community and later experiencing campus activism at NC A&T shaped his political identity. With stories of protesting for farm workers' rights and grappling with the intersection of corporate interests and community well-being, Wesley shares how he leans on faith to fuel the fight. Tune in for a conversation on building community, sparking change, and living a life that honors the people who shaped you.
Are you ready to start the conversation? Eat, chat and act with Down Ballot Brunch.
Down Ballot Banter is hosted by Monèt Marshall and Quay Weston and is a production of Earfluence.
Down Ballot Banter is hosted by Monèt Marshall and Quay Weston and is a production of Earfluence.
Creators & Guests
What is Down Ballot Banter?
Welcome to Down Ballot Banter, the podcast that puts the spotlight on local elections and what local government actually means for you. Hosted by Monèt Marshall and Quay Weston.
Monèt - 00:00:03:
Hey y'all, welcome to Down Ballot Banter, the podcast that puts a spotlight on local elections and what local government actually means for you. I'm Monèt Noelle Marshall.
Quay - 00:00:13:
And I am Quay Weston.
Monèt - 00:00:14:
Yeah, you are.
Quay - 00:00:16:
Local elections are extremely important and we're on a mission to learn together and to break down local politics in a way that makes sense to us and doesn't require us to be experts.
Monèt - 00:00:25:
Because we are not.
Quay - 00:00:26:
Hello.
Monèt - 00:00:26:
So whether you're a seasoned voter or this is your first opportunity, we've got the insights and information to keep you informed and engaged.
Quay - 00:00:34:
Because when it comes to building new worlds, all of our inputs matter.
Monèt - 00:00:39:
Yes. So if you're ready to learn with us, let's go. Hey, y'all. Welcome back. I'm Monèt.
Quay - 00:00:51:
I'm Quay.
Monèt - 00:00:52:
Yeah. And we have the distinct pleasure of being here with Wesley Morris. He is a neighbor. He's a husband. He's a Aggie grad. He is a Reverend. He's an activist. And he's a son of North Carolina. And we're really grateful to spend time with him today. How are you, Wesley?
Wesley - 00:01:15:
I'm cool and happy to be here. I feel like a cool breeze. I enjoy fall, so. Feel good about today.
Monèt - 00:01:25:
Mm-hmm. Well, so there's so many things that we want to talk about with you today.
Wesley - 00:01:30:
Let's do it.
Monèt - 00:01:30:
But first, I think I would really love to give you an opportunity to tell us who you are and who you're coming with today.
Wesley - 00:01:40:
Yeah, I'm glad to be here again. Let me say that. And let me just share that with everything that is happening. I'm thankful that I'm able to share a part of myself that is calm in the midst of all the happenings, even personally. And I'm present. I'm here. I was born in Raleigh, North Carolina. Came up in a church community that was up Six Forks Road. Bethlehem Baptist. And I have very sharp memories of adults who provided examples of living life and working together that I had a straight thought yesterday. And I said to myself, how would I feel standing in front of the people that I looked up to? As a young person that really poured into me and would I be okay with where I'm at now? And standing in front of those folks whom I haven't seen in 20 or 30 years. And. I have felt good about where I'm at now in relation to what I saw them doing. I think that there was, of course, a time where I kind of broke away. I think that's part of someone's life journey and faith journey. I'm really in touch with this theory around individuation, that you're coupled with an experience. You're in it, but then you have to become an individual at some stage, and then that happens again and again and again. And through those phases where I became an individual again and again and again. Faith is a major part of that. And so growing up in that church community, having that be the safe haven for my first friendships, my first real experiences of outdoor life. I was one of those little cubbies doing, you know, by the riverside fishing and figuring out like how to make a go-kart. Under the supervision of adults who I think still to this day really gave us some really positive examples. And, you know, coming out of that, you know, I'm the youngest of four. And I think that that's significant in how I show up in the world. I have continued to evolve. I shout out my older sisters and my older brother and my mother and my father, of course, very much so tied to family life in a way that inscribes certain lessons. I remember getting the anointing oil on my forehead, heading to the bus and not being able to wipe it off.
Quay - 00:04:16:
Shining.
Wesley - 00:04:19:
And my mother's instructions of, you know, keep your chin up and face the world. Having a scripture in my lunch bag and that kind of, and in the mirror before heading out, checking my face, there goes another positive affirmation. And so growing up in that environment, and then, of course, like I said, finding my own way, being in middle school, where my oldest sister was a teacher at the same time that I was a student.
Quay - 00:04:44:
Whoa.
Wesley - 00:04:44:
And that dynamic.
Quay - 00:04:46:
That's wild.
Wesley - 00:04:47:
That's something I note because I have such appreciation for them and also my playfulness as the youngest of four. I remember a time telling a teacher saying, you know, well, my sister teach here and you can't talk to me that way. And it seemed like less than 30 seconds. My sister was at the door and said, don't you ever use my name in that way. But I say those things to try to communicate how much a family in the midst of society was able to inform not only my outlook, but my in look. You know, and how I'm actually perceiving the world and perceiving myself. Faith being a major part of that and that individuation coming to. Really ahead when I came to North Carolina A&T State University. And finding a lot of culture and organization, organizational support and knowledge of self, shout out to the history club and all the veterans of that. And certainly friendships along the way. I love nature. I love music. I'm a lover of sports. Basketball, you know, kind of lick my chops at that. College, professional. What do you call it? Intramural.
Quay - 00:06:06:
Oh, okay, okay. Yes, yes, that counts.
Wesley - 00:06:09:
But in the younger days, you know, I was all out here. You know, love Method Road, shout out to Raleigh and the summer leagues and all of that. But I think, you know, of course, just, you know, enjoying the competitiveness of sports, enjoying watching it on television. Wild imagination. Art, all of that, just naming these touch points. And then lastly, I think the last piece I'll say, being able to travel and have had the opportunity to take in other lands, other spaces, both physically and through books, through reading. So yeah, those are some of the ways in which I would introduce myself. The ministry is a whole line in and of itself. Growing up and seeing myself have that process of stepping back from the formal church and then stepping into it in a new way and being retaught some things by a master teacher, a thankful pastor, Reverend Nelson Johnson, who helped me understand some new ways to understand the gospel and to understand myself and so. Those are the ways I came into myself.
Monèt - 00:07:20:
Yeah. Thank you for that. I think inside of that, you share so many formal and informal political homes. And I think I would love for you to talk a little bit more about how your political identity was formed in some of those spaces.
Wesley - 00:07:39:
So, North Carolina A&T, I was a history major. And Gibbs Hall, I remember teachers that challenged me. One of my teachers said I was a paradoxical unity. And I said, what are you talking about? Let me go look this up. Sounds like some fighting words. But I remember sitting in his class, Dr. Roberto, and just thinking about Cuba. He was talking about world revolutions and changes in society. And I remember dreaming up in those classes and Miss Woodbury, who gave me extra books to read to think about. If I start naming teachers, I'm going to leave somebody else so I'll just say that history department really was a special place for myself. And that experience of stumbling off of campus and not necessarily having a plan after graduation. In fact, one of my teachers said, you need to get out here and get into some of this community work and find in the the Beloved Community Center. And I went into a room and I saw these adults. Talking about issues that I learned to carry and think about while I was in the history department. I'm thinking about these world and radical ideas. And I was the one on campus with a group that was waving a red, black and green flag all the way around campus.
Monèt - 00:08:53:
I remember those days. I was there for that.
Wesley - 00:08:57:
And really embracing this real radical history and active on campus and bringing some of those threads together. But coming into community, seeing adults in a room who had just returned from South Africa, learning about the truth and reconciliation process and actually employing that in Greensboro to deal with historical tragedy of the Greensboro massacre. And I would, you know, when I came into that space, I just realized how much broader. My understanding of the politic or beloved community actually could be. And I came right off campus and said, I'm ready to go organize in the black community, in the black neighborhood. I'm ready to, I'm red, I'm fueled, I'm ready, I'm on fire. And some of my first couple of weeks, I remember journeying with Reverend Johnson to Eastern North Carolina. To Dudley, North Carolina, and working with some other ministers to be with farm workers. Who had come over on visas and some had just immigrated and, you know, seeing the living and working conditions of farm workers who were picking tobacco. And I'll never forget getting out there and touching a piece of tobacco and then rubbing my eye. And within 10 minutes, my eyes fold up.
Quay - 00:10:15:
I was like, yikes.
Monèt - 00:10:16:
Right, I was like, yikes.
Wesley - 00:10:18:
You know, realizing that this is the condition that folks are working in daily and observing the real instability of the housing, you know, and it just was not a good situation. But being there with them actually empowered not only myself, but others that had taken part in that to go back and really protest and challenge the producers of tobacco who were in Winston-Salem. And so I started understanding the connection between corporate interest and labor, exploitation, the abuse of state power through, at that time, ICE, the government agency that was cracking down on immigrants and really overreaching through policies like 287G. So this was like my political beginnings and street group peace treaties through the beloved community and the way that we always discussed it was that, yes, we're doing work on economic development. We're doing peace treaty work. We're doing solidarity with students, raising awareness, getting out the vote. But what is your work? What's your actual work? These are things that you're doing. And I was taught and trained by Reverend Nelson Johnson, Miss Joyce Johnson, that your work is to build community. These are opportunities in which you do that. And after a while, you'll see that it comes together. There's a phrase I used to say, everything is one thing. That's how I keep track of all these different areas and keep my body together. If my body's trying to figure out how to do each of these things individually, it was very tiresome. And that's where faith came back into my life. In a way that I was spinning my wheels, trying to do the things that personally I didn't have the capacity. But faith allowed me to tap into some other resources spiritually that allowed, I think, a lot of good work. With that broadened sense of who my community is and what my work in the world is and that continued process of learning, what does it mean to become an individual in the midst of a community?
Quay - 00:12:32:
Yeah, so many things, but one that stuck out that I would love to get. Your thoughts on. I think my relationship to faith and faith communities and church has been so much around that piece of building community, right? And like how I'm from Eastern North Carolina, Pantigo, North Carolina, to be specific, down in Beaufort County. And I just remember like how much of our life was focused around a church community and how the church was really like an institution that served the needs of people in the community beyond. The state or the county or, because Pantego is unincorporated, so it won't have like police and real Mayor stuff like that. So I'm wondering for you, right, like in your experience, how you see the role of faith communities or churches to be in these political moments and even like socially, right? Like being with workers who are picking tobacco, right? Like I don't hear much of. At least in my experience, is this clear connection to political things. Yeah, like it's this way that it kind of can feel like the transcendence of church and faith spaces, that it's not like, it's not hands-on with the things that are actually happening. Sometimes it can be spiritual, right, and not like physical, tangible things. So to that, I mean, I'm curious about like, yeah, what's your perspective on the relationship of faith communities to movement in these moments? Question mark.
Wesley - 00:14:17:
Yeah. I remember vividly a quote from one of the pastors that went to those tobacco fields. He came out of it and said, I will never be able to preach the story of the plague of the gnats and Exodus the same way again. And that connection to gospel teachings and the readings and the preaching moment and the actual lived experience in the right now moments, stretching beyond maybe the church individual mission. That stood out to me, that quote. And I'm saying that because I also was someone who grew up, like I said, and became a little frustrated with the role of church, not addressing some of these key questions that I had around identity, around my blackness, around engaging justice. And I had a level of frustration that bubbled over and I had to really go find some answers. And then I became pretty much a person that attacked churches for not doing enough. I became the person that said, you know, churches are collecting money out of the communities, out of neighborhoods, and they need to be on the front lines for voting. And then I became a pastor. And I'll never forget during my installation as a pastor, a lot of people said, congratulations, congratulations. You know, we're so proud of you. And then there was one minister. I won't say his name. One minister came to me. And he came and he shook my hand and he said, be strong. And he squeezed my hand. And then he got in his vehicle and went right back up to Washington, D.C. And I had a lot of respect for him. But what I began to understand, all those things that I was naming that churches should do, now that I'm actually in the role, I went back to the church that I grew up in. And I went and apologized to the pastor I came up under because I didn't understand necessarily what that particular role was. And the assumptions that I had made actually opened me up to some vulnerabilities when I got into the role of like, oh, OK. It's not as easy as you should be doing this. And I also didn't realize what people may gravitate to the church for. That's right. And I think another way to think about it for myself as a minister, as a pastor, you're called to pastor a community and, of course, lift up a vision. But also you have to respect where you are pastoring. And I think those two go hand in hand. So there are certain limitations that I did find that I didn't expect. But I also found a lot of hope and opportunity to do the things that I did call out early on. But that forgiveness tour was part of my adulthood. You know, even just becoming from a young man to adulthood as a man and a husband. I just went around and said, look, I'm sorry. I judged you too harshly. I didn't know how real it was. And so the great ability of churches. Just like community centers, I think of libraries similarly. People orient lives around these particular places in community. And when you orient your life around that, you do get certain benefits. There's after school places. They definitely substitute when, you know, maybe a family or a home does not have all those pieces to take care of. And you're supposed to be able to rely on community. But in this kind of age or period where you have some overarching emotional and social needs that go along with the material need for change and difference, the church can play a powerful role but I also have tempered my judgment of certain churches that may not be as active as others. I just try to lift up and champion the ones that are as active as they can be.
Monèt - 00:18:22:
I think that's a perfect segue into my question, which is, can you share some of the wins that you've seen church spaces have in movement? And why do you feel like they have been able to be successful, specifically in North Carolina?
Wesley - 00:18:38:
Yeah. One story that just immediately comes to my mind. I wasn't a part of this because I was too young. It was in 1996. But it is a story to highlight because there's information about it and people can can look it up. And the folks that were involved are still alive and they're still pastoring. But 1996, the Kmart struggle in Greensboro, North Carolina. It was a labor struggle because of workers in Kmart at a plant warehouse. They were being paid less than any other site that Kmart had and being taken advantage of in Greensboro. And these workers were being injured. They weren't being compensated for their injuries. They were not being treated fairly. There was a long list of improprieties there. And they decided to protest. The workers did. And they blocked the green, I believe, you know, Greensboro is part of a hub of PGA championships, PGA Tour. And so they took the opportunity to block one of the greens. And, you know, when you start intervening on that on some golf.
Quay - 00:19:48:
Okay, look, we got to do something.
Wesley - 00:19:51:
We got to do something. And the ministers made a call. They were like, well, if these are members of our church that are out here laying their bodies on the line, it's not okay to preach a sermon on Sunday. And it's not as if workers are not members of churches. And it's not as if laborers aren't going to get gas at the gas station. We're not so siloed in that way. And so the ministers began to work with the workers and say that we'll participate in the nonviolent direct action. We'll be the ones to protest and they'll arrest us. And so ministers of the pulpit forum began to, you know, do these actions. And they were arrested in front of these Kmart's when, you know, one of the ministers tells a story of being in jail for their actions they commented to each other. They said, well, I got to get out of here because I got church on Sunday. And the other pastor said, well, if your members don't worry about where you are on Sunday and they don't come here and get you out, you got a bigger problem. And so a level of saying that this isn't a worker struggle. This is a community struggle. Naming and framing is such a powerful concept inside of movements and strategies because if you allow the mainstream media or, you know, tabloids or whoever to frame the work that you're doing, they can frame it anyway and it can lose its meaning and so after a while of this struggle. These ministers were able to push so hard that the Chamber of Commerce began to enter. And you see this when there's levels of disruption in society and they start talking bad about you, you're winning, doing something positive. And it did amount to a community town hall. And all this is documented. You can look it up. But the 1996 Kmart struggle, it did amount in the best first contract, a union contract for those workers. And so that was a win. That was a victory. And there's other victories I can name that happened along the way, particularly around the abuse of power by the local police department in Greensboro. That was another area that ministers that were committed in the pulpit forum. I can't say enough about having a vision that connects churches with each other. You know, you might not get, you know, 70 percent of church. You might get four or five churches out of 400.
Quay - 00:22:23:
Yeah.
Wesley - 00:22:23:
But that four or five can make a tremendous difference, especially when they're anchored in the community. And so I would name that struggle as a very powerful because singing is introduced. You know, you start singing some of those hymns. They take on a different meaning when you sing them in the middle of a struggle. You know.
Quay - 00:22:43:
That's right.
Wesley - 00:22:43:
And it makes a big difference. I still hum some of them when I'm washing dishes, you know, because they're ingrained. But they take on a different meaning the older I get and the more experiences I have. I realize how they're actually meant to build some resiliency. Internally, you know, to change the world. So, um I'll stop there.
Quay - 00:23:04:
No, that's good. And I think about, you mentioned hymns. I'm going to say this real quick. This ain't a question. This is more of a comment and critique on the church. I am very upset that the choirs have been disassembled. I'm very bothered by it.
Monèt - 00:23:22:
You are. You've talked about this now on the Yonda Podcast and also here on this podcast. They only got praise teams.
Quay - 00:23:27:
I'm hot. I'm pissed, actually, about it. Got that out and.
Monèt - 00:23:33:
Somebody start Koya Choir.
Quay - 00:23:34:
The hymns.
Monèt - 00:23:35:
Please.
Quay - 00:23:35:
The hymns, the hymns, the hymns we went home. To my hometown this weekend and people are singing hymns. It's still very much a thing and I'm always moved by them. So thank you for bringing those up. And my question is around that piece around power, right? Like power building, what it takes to build power and to obtain it. And I'm curious for you, like, If you have a specific faith-based lens on power, what that means to you. But the question in general is, what does power mean to you? We talk about building power, obtaining power. That'll help us to make the changes that we want to make.
Wesley - 00:24:14:
Powerful question. I think that question, for me, lands on the ability to determine outcomes in your social situation. Social situations, circumstances vary from zip code to zip code. But I think power allows a group of people and moves from representative democracy to a kind of communal democracy that can include representative democracy. But neighborhoods being organized in such a way, the well-being, the network of communication with each other, the security and the safety are operating at a higher level to produce safer environments. I also work with the Children's Defense Fund through a number of their initiatives. And they say that when children are safe and secure, they dance and play. That's one semblance of children being in a safer environment. And power is, to me, a great way of saying an attraction of unity, of caring for one another deeply and defense of those kinds of principles that lift up the community to be self-sufficient and self-determination. And those are other words that inform what my beliefs are around power. The other aspect is that power and force are two different dynamics. I love the book Power Versus Force. It details some the differences between power and force. And it gives actually a scale of emotions and what level are people vibrating at that would inform a sense of courage being a tipping point towards more positive emotions or more powerful emotions of joy and happiness and things of that nature. And not that it says that some emotions are bad. It's just saying that if you don't have them working together, you can get out of place. So power for me is an important discussion that does link up to me in faith and spiritual journeys, because I also have to speak broadly in that sense, because I work in interfaith communities and have had quite a journey across traditions that I speak to. So church has informed my discussions of power. What has also informed my discussions of power is something I mentioned earlier about sitting in class and reading about cuba and other places. Cuba is a significant piece of my own story. Having gone the first time. Somewhere in 2010, 2012, somewhere. They were a very amazing group of people and have taken that trip four times and I began to understand. The change in transitions of societies and how does that happen? I remember on my first journey, I asked a farmer as part of a community garden that we visited. And we asked, like, how did this revolution happen here? And I was expecting conversations around taking up arms or creating kind of militancy, militancy and things of that nature. And his response to me and to our group was friendship and solidarity was his overwhelming concept. That friendship and solidarity was the way in which what you see here and what you're experiencing and how we have survived and persisted to be who we are. And that was eye opening for me. Because when you have friendship and solidarity, what emerges out of that are all types of strategies, all types of tools, all types of alternatives to the status quo or to what the existence is at that moment. And so I know that if I work on what a friendship is with people that I care about and people that I don't care about, that I learn how to find some level of community with and understand indifference and hurt and reconciliation of harm, all those things that go into what it means to be a person that I think is responsible. It goes down that line for me. Friendship and solidarity. And if somebody cracks a joke on me that I'm close to, both of you can say a good joke and we can laugh you know, we're there. If somebody else makes that same joke that I have no idea, we don't have a context. It's going to be a different response and reaction. And so the reason I raise that is because the concern for me is how do you deepen what would what would call a friendship?
Monèt - 00:28:56:
Hmm.
Wesley - 00:28:57:
What is a friendship? So when I discuss power, I want to talk about what is friendship? When I talk about power, I want to say, what's the difference between a house and a home? What's the difference between a representative versus a level of communicating or expressing what your needs are, which are not always in a city council or not always in a letter? There's so many ways that we express ourselves and what it means to be exactly and precisely who you are. And so the question that you opened up with of where do you come from, who are your people, emerges to me as a central question. In many ways, the way that I talk was not given. I mean, it was not something I chose. It was this natural progression of hearing the accents that I was around and hearing the way in which my people talk to me and that their people talk to them. And when you mentioned the choirs and the songs, I remember and I know consciously in my body that no matter how many experiences I have and how many other choirs and how many voices I hear. My father's mother was 102 years old. She passed two years ago. But the church there where my uncles kneeled at the morning bench and they would line out hymns, speak very fast and then, you know, call and response. Those early memories for me form a cadence or a conversation with God that goes so many different directions now. I don't do a lot of work that is safe, but I'm secure when I do unsafe work. I'm secure because I'm in unsafe environments, but there's a level of security because of those things. Those things which people may not have seen, may not heard, may not know. And my hope and my work is to create those opportunities for other people to get the things to help them be secure in unsafe environments. America. You know, how can I? There are so many operations and conversations around Exodus.
Monèt - 00:31:06:
Right.
Wesley - 00:31:07:
But until Exodus. Do not believe that it's okay to forfeit my own security and safety of mind, my own desires, my own hopes, my own belief that we can be powerful people in the midst of all these things. We can do something in this moment, irrespective of political outlook, to be able to say we are who we are and we can make some decisions that get us to this particular place. And then when Exodus comes, it's more of a celebration than a retreat.
Monèt - 00:31:45:
Reverend Wesley, you just dropped a word. You really did. I think, because now what I'm thinking about is every time that we are working on friendships, we're also working to build power and get closer to the world that we want. Right. So the work of hanging out, the work of like, you know, talk about your paper plate friends, like your friends you invite over when your dishes are dirty and you don't have to like pretend you're not putting on for them. Like the friends that you invite over when you're sick and who you go visit when they're sick. Like that is the work that is helping us build the world that we want. And it's not a small act. It's actually really powerful to invest in friendship and invest in like neighborship and like to be a member of an active member of community. So thank you so much for that. And I think in this particular political moment, you know, where our attention, I feel like. They want to pull our attention to Washington so bad, you know, like, or they want to pull our attention to the state house in Raleigh. And it's like, Ashley, I also need us to really pay attention to our neighborhood, you know, and to build relationships in our neighborhood. And I really hope that for folks who are watching this episode today, that like you take the charge that you've given us to invest in the power of friendship and then be open, amazed around the potential of what can come out of that.
Quay - 00:33:12:
Mm-hmm.
Monèt - 00:33:13:
Yeah.
Wesley - 00:33:16:
You know, now I'm all, I'm all geared up now. I'm in like fifth gear now. Because this is my passion. People are my passion. And I can't say enough about how much I value people and my desire for them to value themselves. And as a pastor, that's part of my mandate that I own as my calling to say and to see someone and see all this unrealized potential, to see the dignity, the worth and the value in people and to say that, listen, I go through spells where I don't have the kinds of friendships that I idealize, but I do have friendship. And there's a beginning of who am I as an individual in the midst of these relations that I have?
Monèt - 00:34:01:
Yeah.
Wesley - 00:34:01:
And at the very same time, listen, wherever you are and whoever you are. You're important. Yeah. First, primary. And I need to develop within myself, how do I treat somebody? With that word importance out there. Starting with myself. And that's a journey. That's a work. It's a work. And that work is all right. And I'm glad that I, you know, I put on a decent shirt today. You know what I'm saying? And what I mean by that is, I remember in seminary, I had a bottom rack and it had diamond and crust at the top and you know what I'm saying?
Quay - 00:34:34:
That doesn't surprise me. That doesn't surprise me.
Monèt - 00:34:36:
Some girls, it's fine.
Quay - 00:34:37:
I can see that being. Yeah.
Wesley - 00:34:39:
And that was not a decision to do something for somebody else. It was actually embracing them just where I was at that moment and culturally. And so I say that to say that was me. I was flowing. I'm in my flow. And I'm in my flow when I go out. And I struggled being pastor because I was trying to be a pastor. And so I said, I got to wear this particular suit every Sunday. I wore a T-shirt with our church's name on it last Sunday. You know, and gradually the idea of who you might need to be or the idea that has been come because of culture. It always is shaping and evolving, but there is a level of security. I don't know why that word is on me so much, that if we can develop a level of security and all rightness and an okay meter. With ourselves, how we show up. I would just affirm that so strongly. Because that is the kind of social death that black liberation theology, other theologies that are saying that there is a form of Christianity, there is a form of religion that is repressive. There is a slave master ideology that dictates a lot of people's lives and causes a lot of internal harm, even if it pronounces good things. But there is a way that this same gospel was used to defeat, break down and reinstitute a good understanding, a healthy understanding of what it means to be loved by a God that loves you as you are and that created you the way that you're created. And I think that those kinds of conversations allow us to fight back on the terms like oppression, helps us fight back on systemic violence, help us fight back on any of these points of attention that have caused a lot of hurt and a lot of pain. But I don't want to be dictated what my struggle is. And when people say about the dreams of our community, I would love for the dream to emerge, to kind of just be there and rise like the biscuits. You know, the conditions are the conditions. But if we can put something in the midst of these conditions that help our folks get a little more relief.
Monèt - 00:36:52:
Yeah.
Wesley - 00:36:53:
A little less stress. A little bit more access to what they need. And I think that the fact that we can determine the health outcomes based on zip codes, I think that that can be challenged and changed when we look at ourselves as living in the zip codes and not a pie in the sky. Like we actually live here.
Monèt - 00:37:14:
Right, on the land.
Wesley - 00:37:15:
So do our best to try to develop friendship and solidarity through all the ways that we can.
Monèt - 00:37:23:
Wesley, I think that that is such a beautiful, like the bubbling up, the dreams that are bubbling up from our community. So our question that we ask all our guests is like, what are you dreaming for North Carolina? And inside of your dream, I invite you to include some of the dreams that you hear from your people.
Wesley - 00:37:42:
That's dope. I will say dreams aren't like things. They aren't play things. And so I take people's dreams seriously, as I do take my own seriously. And I'm starting to record them as I wake up. I'm talking about those dreams that you have when you actually go to sleep. I try to get up and write them down to try to keep track of them. And I think the same is true for my dreams, abstract, for what I hope this world and this state of North Carolina can look like. But I want to hold myself accountable to, you know, my own words that I've been working on in that. People are really trying and making efforts to create an enjoyable life. Life that is not free of struggle, but that is flooded with strength, flooded with community, flooded with the ability to count on others, and that there are behind the walls of government, behind the walls of policy decisions, a great wealth of resources. That are hidden in this society. And I think the more that we strive together for knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, that we actually get a chance to break through those walls. And so my dream is for the things that I do not yet know, but that I know are out there. I'm trying to break the wall down that is not allowing me to live in the dreams that I am yet to see or to record or to write down. I haven't had them yet. So I haven't had that dream yet. But what I have are the facts that I know some people who are doing some really incredible things right now. And if they had a little less stress, had a little bit more relief, it could be better for them. And what comes out of all those people working together. From all 100 counties. Sometimes I'd be like, there's four cities in North Carolina.
Monèt - 00:39:51:
Right.
Quay - 00:39:51:
That's right.
Wesley - 00:39:52:
No. Or just two or three schools. There's 100 counties in North Carolina.
Monèt - 00:39:58:
Yeah.
Wesley - 00:39:58:
And if you drive and take a drive through North Carolina and you see places have spaces. There's the event center. There's fun. There's schools. There's restaurants. And you find yourself in this whole matrix of, like, damn, I don't even know if I need to have a singular dream or if I should try to, you know, just hold myself accountable to being a part of what's happening. I used to, in seminary, we used to have this time where we have during the middle of a day of service. And my friend, she jokes on me about praying with my eyes open. I wasn't prepared that day. So I was just like, I'm gonna pray with my eyes open and went with it. But it's something that I hold on to, dream with my eyes open, pray with my eyes open. And so I think personally, I'm trying to record the dreams when I wake up because I don't know. That's just what I'm called to do right now. And then I'm also trying to record the dreams. Observation of when I see experience. Like this was pretty great coming here and seeing you all and sitting down. I want to take some time to journal this down. And after a while that emerges to a dream that I can look back on and see. I want to see my dream in hindsight. I don't necessarily want to see it ahead of the road. I want to be living in such a way that I get surprised. I get so excited about the thing that was created behind me because I was pulled by something I didn't yet know was there. And I trust it. So that's why I trust my grandmother on the other side of pulling the string. That's why I trust my loved ones, my people that operate in seen and unseen ways, keep me secure in an unsafe world. And that my job is to be here as present as I can until I'm not. And then I'm working on some things. I wrote down some things that I'm trying to accomplish that I would love to be a part of accomplishing. But for the most part, I'm just excited about the life that will happen in the wake of what we do. Mm-hmm.
Quay - 00:42:06:
And. Thank you.
Monèt - 00:42:08:
Yeah.
Quay - 00:42:09:
Incredible.
Monèt - 00:42:10:
Yeah.
Quay - 00:42:11:
So we wrap with five quick questions.
Wesley - 00:42:14:
All right. Oh, I think I've seen something like this before. Okay.
Quay - 00:42:17:
It ain't intense. It ain't intense. You should probably, you know. Yeah. All right. First question is Pepsi or Cheerwine?
Wesley - 00:42:25:
Kendrick Lamar.
Quay - 00:42:26:
What?
Wesley - 00:42:26:
Kendrick Lamar. I'm just playing. I'm just playing.
Quay - 00:42:29:
Drake. Just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding. We didn't want to throw that in because I don't want to be upset. Pepsi or Cheerwine?
Wesley - 00:42:38:
Pepsi.
Quay - 00:42:39:
Yes. Bojangles or kick out.
Wesley - 00:42:44:
Kick out.
Monèt - 00:42:44:
Yes.
Quay - 00:42:45:
Another one.
Wesley - 00:42:46:
I mean...
Quay - 00:42:47:
Sweet or unsweet?
Wesley - 00:42:48:
Sweet.
Quay - 00:42:49:
You don't see a dude?
Wesley - 00:42:52:
Neither. Disgusting.
Quay - 00:42:53:
What's your answer?
Wesley - 00:42:54:
NC State.
Quay - 00:42:55:
Okay. We have one more other person that said it.
Wesley - 00:42:57:
And look, let me be honest. I'm an Aggie, but you know. I feel like y'all don't ever say anything else but A&T.
Monèt - 00:43:06:
Yeah, you know, when you get older.
Wesley - 00:43:08:
I don't want to lose my A&T card. You know what I'm saying?
Monèt - 00:43:10:
You know, that's all I'm going to say.
Quay - 00:43:12:
Okay.
Monèt - 00:43:13:
Yeah.
Quay - 00:43:14:
Last one. Favorite North Carolina artist. Any medium.
Wesley - 00:43:18:
Favorite North Carolina artist.
Quay - 00:43:20:
Yeah.
Wesley - 00:43:20:
Any medium. Do you mind if I take a moment to think about this?
Quay - 00:43:23:
Sure.
Wesley - 00:43:24:
John Coltrane.
Quay - 00:43:26:
That didn't take very long.
Monèt - 00:43:27:
Not at all.
Wesley - 00:43:27:
I don't know. It's between John Coltrane. Thelonious Monk was out here. Thelonious Monk, any medium. I got something I wish was from here. Let me see. Artists. MJ was pretty dope. It's pretty cool.
Monèt - 00:43:46:
MJ Michael Jackson?
Wesley - 00:43:47:
Oh, Jordan. Oh, okay. Okay, we can add him as an artist.
Quay - 00:43:51:
If you consider him an artist, he could be athletic art. Sports art.
Monèt - 00:43:56:
He could have been a dancer, honestly.
Wesley - 00:43:58:
He makes shoes. Yeah, Thelonious, John Coltrane.
Quay - 00:44:00:
He don't make shoes. You're right.
Wesley - 00:44:03:
Yeah. Okay Yeah I think I'll stop there.
Quay - 00:44:06:
That's cool We'll accept that We'll accept that.
Monèt - 00:44:09:
Wesley, thank you so much for your time today. I know you're busy. We're in a busy season. You know, you're working with On the Long March, with the Leverett Community Center. So thank you so much for your time. We don't take it lightly that you spent some time with us today.
Wesley - 00:44:22:
I don't take it lightly at all. Thank you for my teacher, Dr. James Cone, God of the Oppressed. Thank you for the artwork. Andre 3K felt, you know, I'm grounded.
Monèt - 00:44:31:
We always had a verse.
Wesley - 00:44:32:
You know, The Poetry Cafe, shout out to everybody. All my people.
Monèt - 00:44:37:
Thank you.
Wesley - 00:44:38:
Thank you.
Monèt - 00:44:39:
Until next time. Thanks for tuning in to Down Ballot Banter. We hope y'all enjoy diving into the tentacular world of local politics with us.
Quay - 00:44:55:
Yeah, and don't forget, this podcast is an extension of Monet's beautiful dream, The Down Ballad Brunch, where there are three simple steps. It's to eat, have a conversation, and to act.
Monèt - 00:45:06:
That's right. Have a conversation using this podcast episode, the Down Ballot Brunch chat guide, or your own prompts. Write a note to an elected official on a Down Ballot Brunch postcard. Share quotes from your convo on social media with consent, of course. Or text three friends about their voting plans and find out what matters to them.
Quay - 00:45:26:
And if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to like, share, subscribe. If you're listening on other platforms, be sure to rate and review. Share it with your people.
Monèt - 00:45:35:
Until next time, stay informed, stay engaged, and keep up with the down ballot banter.