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A podcast for homeschool families brought to you by Sequoia Grove Charter Alliance. Encouragement, tips & tricks, interviews with HSTs and curriculum help.
Rebecca: Welcome to the Sequoia Breeze podcast, a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio. Thank you for joining us today. I am sitting with Reese Perez, who is our CTE and high school, high school curriculum coordinator and font of lots of knowledge. And today we're not going to talk about any of that. So thank you for joining me, Reese, I'm excited to have you here.
Reece: Thanks for having me.
Rebecca: Today we are going to talk about, and maybe a little bit more unexpected topic, trauma informed education. So let's get to know Reese a little bit and then we'll explain what that is and why we are even addressing that issue. So Rhys, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Reece: Okay, well, I've been a teacher for twelve years now, and you would probably not expect a teacher to be talking about trauma informed education. It's just not something that really goes hand in hand. It's not something that's ever taught in a credential program. It's not something that, it is something that teachers deal with on a daily basis and in handling children, but it's not something that is really innately taught in our programming. The kind of way that I stumbled across it is a relatively unfortunate story. We had a trauma in our family that affected globally the children of the family, and we had a my twelve year old niece died unexpectedly and all of the rest of the children in the family were left to pick up the pieces and try to kind of make sense of that. And every single one of them processed it in a completely unique way. And it really led us as a family to really dig into this and really kind of get to the root of how to help each of our children individually. And it really kind of led me on a journey as an educator to pursue what trauma looks like in children and how we can kind of help remedy it.
Rebecca: You shared about this at a staff professional development breakout session, and I've heard I didn't attend that session. So I'm excited to hear from you today. But I know that a lot of others that attended it have just raved about it, about how useful it was, how encouraged they were, even through it. And so we wanted to be able to share this with parents as well, because the fact is, is that trauma is out there. So while, while we are not addressing an audience, necessarily of a classroom teachers, we are addressing people who are still trying to teach kids that if they have gone through difficult things, could make the education process more complicated. Not to mention the fact that if a child has been traumatized pretty often mom or dad has been as well. So trying to teach through that and maybe being able to recognize some of your own reactions and effects, how it's affecting you as well, can also be helpful in this process. Certainly when your family went through this tragedy and had to learn to figure out how to continue on and move on, and at the same time, deal with your own grief. While you're trying to help your kids and cousin, their cousins deal with this difficult situation and still have room in their brains and in their bodies for learning, you begin to investigate. You begin to dig into this. Is that where this all comes from?
Reece: Yeah. With my own children particularly, I saw such a drastic way that they not just reacted, but responded. And it really kind of led me to dig into this. I have one child who withdraws and doesn't want to deal with it emotionally. And then I have another child who feels it very, very deeply. And it's developed into an anxiety disorder to where the way that she processes is very much systemic.
Rebecca: So maybe we need to define what makes something a trauma versus a bad day a difficult thing. How do we define that?
Reece: So the way that I define trauma is trauma is really an emotional response that's caused by experiencing something stressful. It could be physical or emotional. It could be something really big. It could be something relatively. That other people would consider relatively small. Trauma is completely subjective, and everybody responds completely differently. What's important is how events are perceived. So how they're viewed by the person experiencing that trauma has long term and really adverse effects on everything from your mental and physical health to your social and emotional well being, your spiritual well being. And the best way to think of trauma is like water damage to a house. So if you think about. There's kind of two ways to look at trauma. One being acute trauma, where there is. If you think about a house being flooded, an acute trauma would be like an immediate flood. Like, you know, you had, like, a tornado blow through your house, and it caused, you know, massive water damage. And it was a singular incident that caused this widespread damage. That's acute trauma versus complex trauma, where you have a series of events, kind of like a slow leak behind a wall, where you might not find it immediately. It might take a long time to figure out what exactly is going on. And by the time you realize there's extensive damage there, it's gone far beyond the original leaking point.
Rebecca: So some trauma is one big event. A car crash, something really definable. This is the date. This is the time, exactly. And some trauma is a series of maybe sort of smaller events that can lead up to a trauma. An example being maybe abuse or something like that that's been going on for a time, or in a situation like bullying, maybe, where it's like one. Each event isn't necessarily terribly traumatizing in and of itself, but it's been going on for so long and over so much time that now we have a right behind the sheetrock damage, for sure.
Reece: Yeah. In the homeschooling world, the example that I think fits the best is, like, hospitalizations, or if you have some sort of like a child who's had, you know, physical issues, you know, one trip.
Rebecca: To the doctor or hospital isn't necessarily traumatizing, but over and over and over, and all of the pokes have led.
Reece: To, yeah, something a little bit more acute or something a little bit more repetitious.
Rebecca: Would you say trauma is difficult to identify or it's usually pretty apparent that it's there.
Reece: To the untrained eye, it can manifest in a bunch of different ways, ultimately, and people who just on a daily basis might not recognize it for what it is, especially in young children and the way that it presents and it being so very different. Again, like with my own children, I wouldn't have recognized that as a trauma response unless I had lived through it. So anybody else who deals with my children on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, even in a singular incident, they might not know that those triggers, those things that, you know, that withdraw or that anxiety, that's all because of a singular incident.
Rebecca: When we were. Because we were living overseas, we had a lot of really, really, really hard goodbyes. And it was kind of over and over and over. And my kids were young enough that they didn't always understand the goodbyes. So are you leaving for a month, or are you leaving for a year, or will I never see you again? There was a lot of confusion in that, and so it began to, like, they began to have responses to anybody going out our gate. You know, it was tough because they just really didn't understand. They'd had a couple of big goodbyes, and they didn't see those people again. And they were young enough to not be able to conceptualize some of that time, and it really was difficult. And then sometimes the goodbyes were us leaving. We're gonna come back to the states for several months. And so all of life is an upheaval. And I watched one of my kids would withdraw, start reading a book. They dive deep into another world because they didn't want to be a part of what was going on around them at the time. And it became apparent that despite how young the child was at that point, we needed to have radar up for not dealing with the emotions, because that's gonna be really unhealthy, too. But sometimes a little space is okay, but we're not gonna pretend like nothing's going on, that we aren't experiencing any emotions and just bury it, because that's only gonna harm us in the future.
Reece: Yeah, absolutely. So today's children are just stressed and anxious and overwhelmed in just record breaking numbers. Scary, because parents aren't equipped to deal with this. Teachers aren't even equipped to deal with this. This, again, isn't part of a credentialing program, and yet you have all these little babies that you are dealing with who have their own struggles, and it might not even be completely obvious as to what they were going through. But as I dug into this with my own children, I really kind of had to understand the neuroscience of the brain and how it develops. Just some basic background information on the neuroscience of the brain. So the part of your brain that develops first in utero and in the early stages of life, you have your brainstem that is, like your innermost part of your brain, and it's also at the base of your brain. So it connects down to your body through your spinal cord and up to the remainder of your brain. And it covers everything from sensory motorhouse to, like, a survival, like that fight, flight, and freeze response that develops first in the brain, and then the part that develops next is the limbic system. And that's, you're, like, at the middle of your brain. And that part of your brain focuses on attachment and emotional development, and it kind of helps you regulate your emotional responses. And then the third part of your brain, the part of your brain that is, in my opinion, the most critical, is the cortical brain, and that's your frontal lobe, for all intents and purposes, the part of your brain that thinks, that learns language, that inhibits behaviors that maybe need to be checked. And so that's, unfortunately for us, the last part of our brain that develops. So as we're going through the processes of development, when there is some sort of a trauma along the way and those parts of your brain are still developing in early childhood, that's how we end up with issues. So the three vital pieces of the brain that we really need to discuss are the amygdala, which, again, is that innermost part of your brain. It's a portion of your brain stem. And what it does is it tries to protect you at all costs, but it can also mistake stress for threat. So, for example, when threat is perceived, alarm bells are triggered in the amygdala, and it ultimately triggers that fight, flight, or freeze response. And it also really stinky again, but it stops that prefrontal cortex from getting the information it needs to make a good decision. So you can see where we're going with this as far as issues, because then once the prefrontal cortex, again, that part of your brain that helps with decision making and critical thinking and logic, if they're not receiving. If that part isn't receiving the right information, then obviously decision making is hindered. And then the hippocampus, that's the third vital piece of your brain. That's the brain's librarian. It basically helps you keep track of memories and information. And when there's a traumatic event, those memories, they don't get recorded correctly in your brain. So then ultimately, it creates this perfect storm for dysregulation. And dysregulation. I'm sure anybody who's heard of dysregulation, it is kind of a buzzword these days. And it's basically when you're seeing a child who is having a harder time listening or comprehending or coping, and they're kind of out of control of their emotions. And until their emotions are regulated and they're back to a normal level, they won't have the mental capacity to reason with you. So it's basically like talking to a wall. I mean, it's nothing you're saying is getting in. And ultimately, they need to calm down first so that their brain isn't in that fight, flight, or freeze mode anymore.
Rebecca: So they need to be able to. I imagine saying calm down is never really helpful.
Reece: I wish it did.
Rebecca: They need to have the opportunity to be in a space that will allow them to come down and relax so that a conversation can be had about what brought on that emotion and how they can do it differently.
Reece: Yeah.
Rebecca: Are there some techniques that parents can use to go from a place of dysregulation to a place where brain and ears and heart and mind are ready to participate?
Reece: Absolutely, yes. I'm so glad you asked, because as an HST, I use this with my own students, just. And actually, it's a great way. I try to teach my parents how to do this as well, so that when it comes down to it, they can teach their children. And education goes so far with all of these things, so it's kind of hard to show you through, you know, through just verb words and explaining, but I'll do my very best. So, if you were to make a fist and visualize that that is your brain, if you were to open up your fist, you have your palm, and it goes down to your wrist and to your forearm. That's your brain stem going down into your spinal cord. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Your spinal cord. If you were to tuck your thumb in, that's your limbic system, that part of your brain that, again, helps regulate emotion. And then if you were to put all four fingers over the top of that thumb so that then you have a fist, that's your prefrontal cortex. So, if you were to kind of think about the front of those four fingers as, like, your prefrontal cortex right here, your forehead. Yes, exactly. Yes. For all intents. Yeah.
Rebecca: What's behind your forehead?
Reece: So, the way I explain it to kids is, hey, if you're feeling frustrated or you're feeling upset, we need to be able to get into your upstairs brain or your prefrontal cortex. Right? That's. Kids don't understand that, but your upstairs brain, they do. So we need to. Hey, I see you getting upset about this. We need to help you get into your upstairs brain to help you with decision making, and. And they do understand that.
Rebecca: Okay.
Reece: And so if you say, hey, you're in your downstairs brain right now, you know, the part of your brain that's, you know, housing your emotions and that's housing your YouTube, you know, fight, flight, or freeze response, you can say that. But then, you know, explaining your upstairs brain as the part of your brain that helps you make good decisions, they do understand that. Absolutely. So, the visual being attached to that is that your fist again? So, when kids are feeling frustrated and they don't necessarily know how to verbalize that, but they're about to, like, really get frustrated, the way that I tell parents to show kids is to flip.
Rebecca: Their lid, open their fingers.
Reece: Exactly. Open all four of their upper fingers, and just say, hey. So if a child is saying, hey, if they're telling themselves, hey, I'm getting frustrated, I'm feeling really frustrated. The way for them to verbalize that but also show you that, is to just flip their lid, and it's just a great way for parents to just go, okay. Yeah. All right. You need a minute? Why don't you just step. Why don't you just, you know, take a other step in the other room and read for a minute? Just take a break. Cool. Down.
Rebecca: So that helps communicate the need to their parents. And then probably I would assume that maybe it's best if there's already sort of a plan in place. Like when you feel like that we're going to do this.
Reece: Yeah, we're going to. Yeah. And it could look in, it could look a couple different ways. It could look like, hey, you, you know, you go have a snack and you walk around for a minute. It could be you just go in the, you excuse yourself to another room and you read a book for a minute. It could be that you do something physical. Jump on the trampoline. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Go for a run, go for a walk around the block, whatever it is.
Rebecca: But we also have things we don't do exactly. Like a conversation that has happened before, so there's no decision to be made. They already know it.
Reece: Totally.
Rebecca: Like, screaming at me is not an option. Hitting somebody, punching the wall is not an option. Throwing things are not options.
Reece: Totally.
Rebecca: But you certainly can go jump on the trampoline, maybe even punch a pillow, depending on the kid or what they need. But, you know, but knowing that there are, there's a plan in place for a time when they feel out of control now, am I right? That part of the problem here is like, the connection of we're not just talking about bad behavior. We're talking about a kid who maybe something is reminding them of this trauma that they've gone through. And so they're feeling fearful or nervous or, you know, frustrated that they're out of control again. And so we're trying to deal with, we're trying to provide them with a way to handle this in a. Until they can calm down and think about it.
Reece: Absolutely. Again, I see this a lot with kids who have anxiety. That could be the trauma in and of itself, because having things like panic attacks that you have to deal with or kids that might have to deal with not being able to fully express what they're, what they're feeling, but knowing that they're just feeling uncomfortable or they're feeling out of control of themselves, that.
Rebecca: Feeling out of control of themselves can look really different with different kids. Right. I mean, some kids might get angry. Other kids might throw fits. Other kids might just cry.
Reece: Yes, totally. And that's part of that fight, flight or freeze response. You don't know which one each kid is going to do. They might hit that fight mode, right, where they're yelling and screaming and arguing with you, and they're, you know, acting out or behaving aggressively, and then you also might have the flight response where they're just withdrawing and completely trying to flee and, you know, get out of there as fast as they can. It might. It might actually manifest as daydreaming, too. Kids who are just exactly, totally just kids who are tuning out in some way, or the freeze response, where they might just be numb. They might be refusing to answer you or refusing to meet their own needs.
Rebecca: Now, are we expecting these kinds of behaviors just in any everyday stuff or more things that are, you know, it's time to go to the doctor again.
Reece: I mean, yeah, you might still see things like this because kids might still feel triggered by things like this. However, there is a difference between kids who have actually lived through a traumatic event versus kids who are just feeling anxious or stressed out about something and being able to differentiate between the two. I mean, in the homeschool world, you know, you know, as a parent, you are, you know, yes, you are educator, and yes, you are mom. But being able to, you know your child best and being able to say, yeah, well, you know what? This is life. Sometimes we have to do that as parents versus saying, hey, you know what? This is actually, there's more to this.
Rebecca: Is it fair to say that most trauma is accompanied by grief, do you think? Ooh, sometimes, because, I mean, there's trauma responses, and so often, I think a lot of grief responses can look similar, to a degree. And the dealing with the grief is part of dealing with the trauma responses. And, you know, if you, for instance, in the incident with your family, there's absolutely overwhelming grief involved in that. And so trying to. And grief is so sneaky.
Reece: Absolutely.
Rebecca: Grief hits you when you're least expecting it. You might be having a fabulous day, and somebody sings a song that somebody always sang or something, and suddenly your day is flipped on its head, and you've no brain power left because your brain is flooded with this overwhelming. Which part of your brain you're using has just changed. You know, you're back in your amygdala and you're not able. And there's just no way that lessons are gonna happen at that point. And the lessons, the life, the lessons for the day become, how do we cope with this wave of grief that maybe is affecting one or two people in the family and may or may not be affecting the others?
Reece: Absolutely. Or maybe not outwardly, at least.
Rebecca: Yeah, but just, I mean, grief can hit so differently for different people, even the same event, the same people that, you know, you might be grieving the same person, but what affects that? What triggers that is so different.
Reece: Totally. And it's completely individual. Yeah. Like, with my own children. Right. Like, they were given the same narrative about and given the same love and the same response by us as parents, and yet their responses were night and day.
Rebecca: I know for us, through various stages of grief that we were going through, there were definitely days when school just wasn't. It just wasn't gonna happen, but it wasn't that we were gonna do nothing.
Reece: Yeah. Right.
Rebecca: Maybe we needed a walk. Maybe we needed to do something comforting, like playing sand. Maybe we watched a movie that was helpful. We actually found a couple that talk about dealing with your emotions, like not bottling them up and things that were very helpful. But we also sometimes grief snuck in through books. We'd be reading a book that was. Had us laughing 1 minute, and suddenly we were all crying.
Reece: I know exactly how that goes. And, yeah, when you mentioned the song thing, I was like, oh, yeah. To this day, there's still a few songs that, you know, if we hear them or they come on the radio, I mean, we're all looking at each.
Rebecca: Other like, oh, yeah, you've mentioned flight, fight, or freeze a few times.
Reece: Yes.
Rebecca: Let's talk about a little bit more of what that looks like, because I think we all can imagine that in something happens right in front of us. What does that mean? But what does that look like when it's become sort of an ingrained trauma response that the thing in front of us might, maybe wouldn't cause a fight, flight, or freeze anybody else, but it does for our kids or for us. And that can manifest itself in different ways, for sure. So talk a little bit about that.
Reece: I think, again, we got to go down to the neuroscience level, and we're, again, going to start with your brainstem, because that is, for all intents and purposes, that is your action part of your brain. So, this is actually the first part of your body to communicate up to the rest of your brain and down to the remainder of your body. So when something happens, the brainstem is perceiving an incident, and then the brainstem will communicate first with your body. So you might have a response first in your body where, like, your heart rate starts to race and or maybe your body language changes. And then next would be your limbic system again, that feeling part of your brain. Your next question to yourself after your heart rate starts to race or maybe after your body language changes, is, how do you feel about it? So the last part of your brain that gets the actual information, the part that can actually help you to make a good decision. Is the thinking part of your brain, the smarty part of your brain, and with that part being the last part to receive the information, obviously, you've already gone through how your body's reacted and how you feel about it before you're actually being able to think about it logically. And with kids who have been through trauma, that prefrontal cortex part of your brain, it's actually smaller than the remainder of your brain, so that that brain stem is actually overdeveloped, and your prefrontal cortex is underdeveloped. And while it's nothing necessarily a permanent thing, it can be remedied. It's definitely something to be aware of for kids who have been through not just an acute trauma, like a really horrible acute trauma, but kids who are constantly going through a trauma or traumas.
Rebecca: What are a couple of examples of what?
Reece: Let me give you an example of a student who I had. Goodness. Years ago, when I was teaching fifth grade, he came into the classroom, and he was a great student. He was constantly organized, ready to go, ready to learn for the day. When he walked in in the morning, big smile on his face. And this particular morning, he came in, and he seemed a little bit off from the get go. You know, he sat down, he got his stuff out. He's writing in his journal, and he's just off. He's not completely focused on what he's doing. I'm having to redirect him. And by the time I finally figured out that something might be going on with him, I had him step out into the hallway with me, and I just asked him point blank, like, hey, are you okay? What's going on today? Did you eat breakfast? Like, you know, just asking some of the basic questions. And. And he looked at me and was just like, do you hear that? And I was a little bit caught off guard, and I was like, no. But as I kind of, like, sat back and actually listened, there was this just kind of humming noise. And I was like, yes, I actually do hear that. And he was like, what is that? And, I mean, it kind of led us on this journey. I actually had the principal come in and take over for my class so that we could figure this out. And he and I ended up discovering that it was some construction that was going on out of site right across the street from our school. And he was more panicked about that. And when we started digging into it, he had seen something on the news the night before, how there was construction going on, and a gas line was hit, and it caused this explosion. So this poor little boy, even though he hadn't been through a direct trauma, he is concerned about whether or not he's in a safe environment. And he's feeling so unsure that he can't learn. He can't even think straight. I mean, that was literally his one track mind at that moment.
Rebecca: Was he able to. Once everything had been identified, were you guys able to work through that?
Reece: We were. You know what? We actually walked across street to the construction site, and I said, are you guys digging today? And they said, no, actually, we're just moving dirt. And then he was like, right. So there was that, you know, sigh of relief, and you could see his shoulders just relax. And that that was the moment, which.
Rebecca: I think you could probably make a leap from a story like that to something that is true for us grown ups but is more true for kids, that sometimes we allow our imaginations to take us to a place of fearfulness that isn't a. Isn't real.
Reece: Sure.
Rebecca: And if we can. If we can, if we can find the facts, so much of fear goes away.
Reece: Absolutely.
Rebecca: When death has come close to a family, then suddenly death could be everywhere you look in your imagination, and there can just be really fearful. And so bringing back night. Well, no, that was an unusual circumstance that doesn't normally happen. You know, being able to talk through the facts of what is real can then help maybe bring some of that, walk, some of that trauma response back, because now I. Now I have actual information.
Reece: Right.
Rebecca: I've called that for myself in the past. Like, I need. I need ammo. I can't shoot down my doubts or my fears unless I have ammunition with which to shoot it down. And if there's no ammunition, then they just get bigger and bigger and bigger. Totally.
Reece: I actually just read something very recently about anxieties and how the part of your brain that houses anxiety is also the part of your brain that houses thankfulness. So when you are in a place of thanksgiving and feeling grateful and thankful, those two cannot coexist. So if you are in a place where you're just feeling so grateful for all of the things that you have, there is no room for anxiety, and.
Rebecca: It might take kids a little while to find something they're grateful for.
Reece: Yes.
Rebecca: I mean, it can take all of.
Reece: Us totally well, especially if you're in a place where you're uncomfortable or you're fearful. Right. You're in that middle part of your brain. You're in that limbic system, and that prefrontal cortex is, again, not even getting the information that it needs to help you process a good decision.
Rebecca: So if you're in the middle of a school day at home and you have a child that is suddenly, suddenly having a flight fight or freeze response, maybe it's something that's happened before. Maybe it's out of the blue. But now your day is heading off the rails, and you want to help your child, but you'd also like to get back on the rails. What are some techniques for. For those kinds of days?
Reece: Oh, I'm so glad you asked. Believe it or not, kids love to hear you draw from your own experience. It just helps. It makes you more relatable as a person beyond just being a parent or an educator. So being able to say, hey, I know how you're feeling. I know how frustrating this must be for you. And then giving them an example that can be really helpful, also setting. Believe it or not, I know this kind of probably is going to sound counterintuitive, but setting and maintaining really high expectations, because if you are flippant or willy nilly or if you say something but you don't mean it, that can actually do more damage than actually being helpful. And then helping kids, finding silver to find silver linings in situations, it helps them to develop resilience. So when you're looking for the positives in situations, again, that whole. This is where. That whole Thanksgiving thing, rather than anxiety, that made so much sense for me. So helping kids find silver linings in situations that might feel for them hopeless.
Rebecca: Not dismissing the hard.
Reece: No, no, not at all.
Rebecca: This is real.
Reece: Right.
Rebecca: But so is this.
Reece: Exactly. Yes. That helps them build resilience.
Rebecca: Go back to high expectations. Can you give us an example of that? What do you mean by setting high expectations? And that. That is actually helpful.
Reece: Okay, so having personal boundaries. Right. Like, again, you had said earlier, like, hey, it's okay for you to do all of these activities when you're frustrated and you're about to blow your top, but it's not okay for you to yell at me. Right? That's a boundary. That's an expectation. That's not something that you're wavering on.
Rebecca: You're not just gonna let them get away with everything because they had a hard time.
Reece: Totally. Yes.
Rebecca: Which I think we've all seen. Those kids, like, life got hard, and people let them do whatever they wanted, and so now they're kind of miserable to be around, and they don't have any self control, and that doesn't serve the child.
Reece: Right. But, yeah. When. When children go through something difficult as a parent. Yeah. As a parent, as, like, for myself, it's. It's really hard to continue to hold the line. Right. But. But you have to. I mean, you are. You are the example, and kids are going to be taking their cues from you, especially as the educator and as the parent. I mean, you have a really big job. You also have the biggest say, and that's huge. That's valuable.
Rebecca: But kids need to know that those safety lines are still in place. Like, it's not a free for all.
Reece: Totally.
Rebecca: I still have boundaries.
Reece: Absolutely.
Rebecca: To help me hold myself together.
Reece: Absolutely.
Rebecca: I remember sometimes as just sort of a mental picture, sometimes I had little. When my kids were little, they might be having a hard day, melting down and somehow putting them in their car seats and strapping them in. They would calm down, and it was like they didn't have to try. They didn't have to deal with themselves anymore. The car seat was holding them together. And so now I can just relax because it's not up to me anymore. And I think when we take boundaries away completely from kids, they just don't even know what direction to go. There's nothing to help prop them up.
Reece: Absolutely.
Rebecca: When they can't hold the themselves together.
Reece: Yeah. If they know what to expect from you, it makes things so much easier for them.
Rebecca: Which is hard when you're a part of the trauma, too.
Reece: Exactly.
Rebecca: Cause there are definitely days when you just don't feel like you have it in you.
Reece: Yeah.
Rebecca: Because you're trying. You're not in your prefrontal either.
Reece: Right? Yes. And actually, I'm glad you mentioned that as well, because trauma can be generational and can actually change you down to a cellular level. So, for example, I did a bunch of research on survivors of the Holocaust and their children. And their children innately had elevated levels of cortisol, meaning that they had, like, anxiety, more anxiety than the average person. And that had come from a genetic marker that had changed for all of the people who had lived through the Holocaust and that got passed on genetically.
Rebecca: That's fascinating.
Reece: Yeah.
Rebecca: I also want to validate that secondary trauma is a real thing.
Reece: Oh, yeah.
Rebecca: And that's something. Long story, but at one point, I was dealing with kids who had undergone severe abuse, and I will not compare my trauma to what they had undergone, but a degree of secondary trauma was real for me, and that was something that I had to work through as well. And so sometimes it's also possible that parents are feeling traumatized by what happened to their child, and that is a real thing. It needs to maybe not overshadow the children they need to help, but it's okay to say, this was really hard on me, too.
Reece: Absolutely. Right. Yeah. And this is where it becomes really difficult as a parent to hold that line, to maintain that expectation. And it is okay. A lot of times, it's okay to just say, hey, you know what? We're gonna scrap this lesson for right now, and we'll come back to it tomorrow, and we're gonna go for a walk in nature, and we're gonna, you know, do something other than what's causing this conflict right now.
Rebecca: So talk a little bit more. You're beginning to touch on it there. But what are some coping mechanisms for a parent who has undergone the trauma, but is also needing to help and shepherd their kids when sometimes they may feel incapable? You know, parenting stretches us, but I'm sure you found yourself in those situations yourself when your kids need you, but you need you, right?
Reece: Totally. And, I mean, that's really the question of the ages. I mean, I wish I had some magic potion, and I'm honestly still figuring that out myself. That's not something that I have the gold ticket on. I can be totally honest about that. I wish I did.
Rebecca: Well, I. Sometimes. Sometimes families can just grieve together. We definitely, at our house, had some moments like that where we would, you know, we might cry or, like I said, sometimes that's a good time for a movie.
Reece: Yes, absolutely.
Rebecca: Because it gives everybody a little bit of space, and you might be able to then talk about it afterwards.
Reece: I think modeling for your children becomes difficult in situations where you're having a hard time regulating yourself. And I can completely understand that. That's something that we've struggled with in our house over the years, too, and with, you know, with death of my niece Maddie. But, yeah, it's a difficult thing for parents to be able to help shepherd your child's emotions while also dealing with your own.
Rebecca: Yeah, but I think, too, as parents, we don't have to hide our emotions. We need to not overload our kids with our emotions. But it's okay for them to know we're sad we're having a hard time, too.
Reece: Absolutely. Yes, certainly.
Rebecca: And, yeah, but also. And also, if you don't lose hope, they don't lose hope. Like, if mom can be sad but be okay in a little while or not. Not lose hope that we will get through this, then I can be sad and not lose hope, too, for sure.
Reece: Yeah, that's.
Rebecca: That's.
Reece: Yeah, that's fabulous. I. Yeah, I could highly. I could. I could highly recommend that. Right? Like, yeah, I would love to be able to in that moment, you know, in those moments of trial and tribulation, being able to take a step back and just make sure that, like, hey, I want to be modeling what I want my kids to learn out of this. And it's so hard in the moment to just be able to take that step back. But if that's. If that's your expectation of your children, hey, like, you should be able to do that for yourself, too. Like, I just need a minute. I just need a minute to collect myself. I just need a minute to put myself back together.
Rebecca: Sometimes I think we forget. You know, we talked about having a plan for our kids. When you feel this way, this is what you may do and this is what you may not do. I mean, maybe we come up with those rules for ourselves.
Reece: Totally. Right. I mean, that self care is a really big thing right now.
Rebecca: Yeah. Can let my kids watch a show so I can go have half an hour in my room and collect myself. I'm not gonna go eat a carton of ice cream.
Reece: Exactly.
Rebecca: Yeah, totally.
Reece: I mean, yeah. Diet is actually a big part of us, too. Right? Like, just. Yeah. Maintaining a healthy diet and modeling that for your children. But I myself, I personally, I will. I'll try to do something physical. I'll try to do something active where it's. Whether it's I'm going for a run or I'm going for a walk or I'm going to the gym, something that I'm working through. And my kids are seeing that this is my healthy way of dealing with this, and I'm hoping that that becomes ingrained in them so that then if they go through their own trials and they go through their own struggles, then they can work that out with exercise as well.
Rebecca: And it's okay for mom to leave for a little while to do those things that she needs, that needs to not be a guilt trick.
Reece: Totally. Oh, my goodness.
Rebecca: Like, guys, I'm going for a run, and it's okay if you eat cereal this morning and see something I make, and I expect you to do that with a good attitude and let me go.
Reece: Absolutely.
Rebecca: Because I will be a better person when I come back. And all of that endorphins. All those endorphins are firing. Really?
Reece: Yes. Yeah. We call it yo yo night in our house. There are times where I just don't want to cook dinner.
Rebecca: You're on your own.
Reece: You're on your own. Exactly.
Rebecca: And of course, that implies a certain age for your kids or, you know, spouse that is able to help or a little bit of forethought where there are certain things that can be gotten out by the kids to their own.
Reece: Right?
Rebecca: Yeah. So while we are talking about really difficult things and complex physiological reactions that are going on in our brain, all of the reactions and I. And all of the ways of coping with those things are pretty simple.
Reece: Yeah. Oh, totally.
Rebecca: I feel like I keep seeing that over and over in life. Like, sometimes some of life's most complicated problems have kind of simple answers.
Reece: Right. And, I mean, there is a bottom line to all of this, and that's just to handle people with care. You know, you don't know where people are in life. You don't know what their struggles are. You don't know if they're struggling currently. And just being kind goes so far.
Rebecca: And time alone doesn't heal, but time is a very big piece of it. You know, time does need to be allowed to pass and the process take its course.
Reece: Right? Yeah. But your mind and your body is incredibly resilient and under the right circumstances, when the people in our lives help us to develop some of the courage to face our pain, these emotional circumstances are just an essential part of building lasting and meaningful relationships and really, truly are what we want to model for our kids.
Rebecca: When a child is ready to talk, that might trump just about every other activity, don't you think?
Reece: Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I can speak to that as well because I've gone the route of putting my kids in therapy thinking, yeah, they need to talk to somebody about this. And, yeah, there's a time and a place for that, but there's also a time and a place where my kids have come to me and said, hey, I just don't want to go and I don't want to do this anymore. And I just, I just need some space to process this on my own. And giving them that freedom to, based on, you know, the circumstances. But. But giving them that freedom makes them.
Rebecca: Feel heard and coping skills and what help is needed are different in the first month and the first six months, in the first year and the second year and the third year, like, as time goes, as you process and as you grow and as kids begin to understand the world around them more, because, you know, if a six year old, something hard happens to a six year old, they just have such a limited understanding of what the world is. A twelve year old can understand a bigger piece, but they're still going to understand it differently at 16 than they did when they're twelve. And so as that growth. And. And two, we can't underestimate, like, a lot of memory fades for a six year old. True.
Reece: Well, and that's the beauty of it, right? Is your hip, your hippocampus may not have recorded it the way that it all happened originally anyways, if there was an actual specific event, but, yeah, I agree.
Rebecca: What was hard then? My fade and not. And you, it's still a really big deal to you because you're not that much older.
Reece: Right.
Rebecca: You know, but to a kid, you know, I think allowing them to let go of that trauma is also important. We don't have to keep telling them, hey, you're, you're damaged. You know, sometimes it can be.
Reece: Absolutely. Oh, for sure. Yeah. You, I look at my own childhood, you know, not okay, situations as shaping, and I would not be the person that I am today without them. And I think my kids are at that point, too, where they're like, you know, it really stinks to have gone through these hardships, but look at what I've gotten out of it. And I can sow into all of these people's lives and really invest in these other ways. And while it's really stunk to have to walk through that at the same time, look at what I have on the back end.
Rebecca: So your final message through this is trauma is not forever and there is hope. Would you agree with that statement?
Reece: Oh, absolutely. Yes. I don't think I could agree with that more. So big final takeaway is that it's equally important to realize that traumas don't just go away, but they become a part of your story and ultimately a way for you to connect with others going through similar experiences.
Rebecca: Thank you, Reese, for sharing with us today. I really appreciate you opening your life experiences, your family's experiences, and all of the knowledge that you have gained through that.
Reece: Absolutely. Thank you for having me and for hearing me out.
Rebecca: And we'll have some links in the show notes for families that want to know a little more about this.
Reece: Yeah, absolutely. Great.
Rebecca: Thank you.
Reece: Thank you.
Rebecca: Listeners. This wasn't an easy topic to cover, and in so many ways, we barely scratched the surface. If you or your child have experienced trauma and you are recognizing that the effects of that difficult circumstance are impacting your ability to school well and thrive in life, I hope this episode has helped you to realize that you're not alone and that there are very real reasons for the behaviors and thought patterns that might not make a lot of sense on the surface of I'd like to point you toward a few resources. In our show notes, you'll find a link. You'll find a list of links that Reese provided to learn more about the topics that she covered. Please explore those and learn more about what your family might be going through and how to move forward. Also, you can always reach out to your HST to help you connect to resources that the school offers. They would love to help you with that. If you are uncomfortable talking with your HST, then you can also email infocoiagrove.org and be directed that way to those resources. Or you can also visit the bridge and click on student support. From there, you'll be able to find social emotional learning resources as well as some counseling resources. And as always, you can email me at podcasts@sequoiagrove.org if you have any questions or concerns, I'd love to hear from you. Please join me again next week for a surprisingly lighthearted and creative way to give your family a way to talk about the sad or difficult things. Children's author Cori Doerfeld joins me to share her sweet and thoughtful books. We get to hear about the inspiration behind her stories, and Cori even gives us a little read aloud time. It's an uplifting episode that you won't want to miss. Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Sequoia Breeze podcast. I do hope it's been a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I've been your host, Rebecca LaSavio. Thanks for being here, and I can't wait to share next week's episode with.