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Discover how Opportunity Zones can help you defer taxes, boost returns, and diversify your portfolio while fueling community growth. In this episode of Alt Investing Made Easy, attorney and Opportunity Zone expert Gerry Reihsen breaks down complex tax rules into practical, actionable strategies. Whether you’re planning a major exit in 2026 or exploring Opportunity Zone funds for real estate and operating businesses, you’ll gain the insights needed to confidently allocate capital for long-term, tax-free growth as OZ 2.0 rules arrive in 2027.
About Our Guest:
Gerald J. (Gerry) Reihsen III is a dynamic legal strategist and entrepreneurial advisor based in Dallas, Texas, with more than two decades of experience in corporate law and capital markets. As the founder of Coasis Coalition and principal of Reihsen & Associates, Gerry blends deep legal expertise with entrepreneurial insight to empower transformative ventures. Nationally recognized for his leadership in Opportunity Zone investments and innovative business structuring, he is also a prominent leader in blockchain law and a passionate advocate for Texas business policy. Through strategic counsel, advisory leadership, and public speaking, Gerry continues to shape the future of enterprise, earning distinction as one of the nation’s Top 25 Opportunity Zone Attorneys by Opportunity Zone Magazine.
Connect with Gerry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerry-reihsen/
Takeaways
- 10-Year Tax-Free Growth: Why the biggest OZ benefit isn’t the deferral—it’s the unlimited tax-free upside after a 10-year hold.
- OZ 1.0 vs. OZ 2.0: Understand the key changes coming in January 2027, including rolling deferrals and rural incentives.
- Structuring QOFs: How self-directed Qualified Opportunity Funds can help you control and scale your tax-advantaged investments.
- Real Estate & Beyond: Why 95% of OZ investments are multifamily projects—and why crypto mining, bourbon barrels, and data centers are emerging opportunities.
- Timing Strategies: How to use K-1 reporting windows and failed 1031 exchanges to capture more OZ benefits.
- Rural Playbook: How rural Opportunity Zones unlock up to 30% capital gains reductions and new growth markets.
- Common Advisor Oversights: Why many accountants and lawyers miss OZ opportunities—and how to avoid leaving money on the table.
Chapters
00:00 – Welcome & Introductions
02:00 – Origins of Opportunity Zones: A Bipartisan Vision
04:30 – The #1 OZ Benefit Most Investors Overlook
08:15 – OZ 1.0 vs. OZ 2.0: Key Rule Changes Coming in 2027
13:30 – How Qualified Opportunity Funds (QOFs) Work
18:00 – Real Estate vs. Operating Business Investments
25:00 – Timing Strategies: K-1 Windows & Failed 1031 Exchanges
32:30 – Creative OZ Investment Ideas: Bourbon, Crypto, Rentals
38:45 – Rural Opportunity Zones: Unlocking 30% Capital Gain Reductions
50:00 – Closing Thoughts & Resources
Ready to explore how Opportunity Zones can work for your portfolio?
Book a strategy call to see how your capital gains can be allocated for maximum impact.
Book a strategy call to see how your capital gains can be allocated for maximum impact.
Credits
Sponsored by Real Advisers Capital, Austin, Texas
If you are interested in being a guest, please email us.
Disclaimers
“This production is for educational purposes only and is not intended as investment or legal advice.”
“The hosts of this podcast practice law with the law firm, Ferguson Braswell Fraser Kubasta PC; however, the views expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of Ferguson Braswell Fraser Kubasta PC.”
© 2025 AltInvestingMadeEasy.com LLC All rights reserved
Creators and Guests
Host
Roland Wiederaenders
Co-founder of the Alt Investing Made Easy podcast, investment advisor, and corporate securities attorney with expertise in private investment funds, corporate/securities issues, mergers and acquisitions, partnership structuring, and federal income tax matters. Roland is also a member of Grable Martin PLLC.
Host
What is Alt Investing Made Easy?
Join attorneys Sarah Florer and Roland Roland Wiederaenders as they navigate through the maze of market jargon and reveal the secrets of diversifying your portfolio. Whether you're a seasoned investor or taking your first step toward financial freedom, we empower you with the knowledge and insights you need to thrive in the dynamic landscape of alternative assets. Get ready to transform how you invest, inspiring a new way of thinking about your finances, and discover how to make your money work harder. Dive in with us, and let's make investing in alternative assets easy, giving you the confidence to navigate the financial landscape, one episode at a time.
Sarah Florer (00:09.137)
Welcome everyone to Alt Investing Made Easy. Thank you for joining us today. Today we're going to introduce to you a new friend and colleague, Gerry Reisen of Reisen & Associates. Welcome, Gerry.
Gerry Reihsen (00:21.689)
Thank you, happy to be here.
Roland Wiederaenders (00:23.65)
Hey Gerry, it's great to get to know you and and your son Carson Reihsen is one of our law partners at our new law firm FBFK and that's originally how we got connected. I had a issue with a tax question or a question specifically about the topic that we're going to be talking about today. Opportunity zones and you have an expertise in this area. So Gerry, maybe just tell us a little bit about opportunity zones.
Gerry Reihsen (00:52.833)
So if you can still think back to the great recession we had, the Opportunity Zone Tax Incentive Program developed indirectly out of that. At that time, Silicon Valley was not experiencing the same distress as the rest of the country. So several Silicon Valley titans who were problem solvers
attempted to find ways to spread the Silicon Valley miracle to
other places in the United States. Steve Case did a tech fund that invested only outside of Silicon Valley and I think outside of the Boston and Carolina Triangle. what happened was that this fella, gosh, now his name is escaping me, he was an original investor in Facebook, Sean Parker. So he had this idea, what if we create incentives for persons who generate
wealth to reinvest that wealth in under invested communities. And he set up a foundation to pursue it. It was during the late, the early stages and through the Barack Obama administration. And they came up with this opportunity zone concept, which didn't get any purchase during the Obama administration, but had circulated enough that there was not insignificant bipartisan
in it. And so when Trump came on the scene with his former big beautiful bill, the Tax Reform Act of 2017, led by Tim Scott on the Republican side and who's the New Jersey senator?
Gerry Reihsen (02:51.564)
escaping me now, also African-American, but he was on the Democrat side. And they brought that to Trump during the process of that tax reform.
bill and it got included in that. I accidentally discovered it in the early part of 2018 right after it become effective because as a just for background and I know a lot of tax but I wouldn't say I'm a tax attorney I know this space very well but I'm a corporate securities attorney so I do a lot of capital formation assistance for all kinds of companies but I had a tech company in 2018 that I was doing there
investor deck for them. And I always include what's called a 1202 slide as a special tax incentive, which we do combine actually often with Opportunity Zone investing. 1202 means if you invest in a qualified small business, then after a five year period, now it's three, four or five year period that got revised, you just moderately increases three, four and five years, you get up to now $15 million in exclusion of gain per investor. So you can actually get a lot of gain exclusion with a lot of
investors. And I had that slide in there and I said, well, Trump just passed this tax act. I better see as a competent and diligent attorney whether there's anything new in there that can help an investor. And that's when I discovered the Opportunity Zone program. It totally blew my mind. The incentives are off the charts. The main incentive, even though it's not the one people tend to focus
Sarah Florer (04:22.739)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (04:34.55)
on the most. The main incentive is that after a 10 year hold of your investment, you can dispose of that investment or the underlying structure can dispose of assets with unlimited tax free upside. And that just blew my mind. I didn't understand how we could ever have something broadly available to the public. And that would be it. And the other thing I loved about the tax incentive, I've done a lot of investment fund work, as you guys know, and you do get
tax incentives for things from time to time. it's often the middleman or only institutions that end up getting the benefit of the tax incentive. And the Opportunity Zone program is so broadly available to anybody. I just thought it was great that basically anyone can take advantage, who can generate wealth, which is translated as capital gains for the purposes of the tax code, can set up their own investment vehicle or invest in other people's investment vehicles.
you get at the time of the original passage, you had two other incentives as well. And it's these two people focused more on than the unbelievable ability to have unlimited tax free upside after 10 years, which, by the way, on the opportunity zone, I just was talking to one of my fund clients. They calculate that a million dollar investment in their fund, Opportunity Zone Fund, generates 800,000 more return in dollars.
than they would have had. Obviously they're to have more return than 800,000, but the marginal difference for a million dollar investment is $800,000 to the benefit of this. And that includes the entire benefits you get. The other two benefits that were available at that time, they're of less importance today under what we'll call OZ 1.0, the first iteration of Opportunity Zone, of the Opportunity Zone program. The other two benefits were, to take advantage of the program, you have to take your capital gain,
Sarah Florer (06:08.979)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (06:34.086)
gains that you have from some other investment and during the prescribed period of time, generally 180 days, but we can actually add another period of time from December 31st through September 10th of the following year if that gain can be realized through a K-1 reporting entity. we'll talk about some strategies in that regard later. In any event, that gain, you got to defer until December 31st, 2026, which is the end of next year.
2018, that was a long deferral. And if by December 20, December 31, 2026, that investment had been in place for seven years, you got a 15 % reduction in your original capital gains. not talking about the backend, which is totally tax free. I'm talking about your original capital gains. Or if you had been in place for five years, you got a reduction in your original capital gains of 10%. So while those are important, they're
were near as valuable as the 10 year tax free upside. And they've become less valuable over the years as we get closer to December 31, 2026. And obviously you can't get the reduction anymore. And you only now, if you set this up, get a deferral until December 31, 2026. But again, the main benefit is the tax free upside. this activity in the space has not really slowed down that much because of this
impending day. Well...
For people like me who happen to get involved in the Opportunity Zone Statute and become a quote expert, just because nobody else knows anything about it. So if you know anything about it, you're an expert. Anyway, for the people who are going to become an expert, we were given a huge gift of a franchise that's now permanent in the one big, beautiful bill act, the OBBBA act, or act is duplicate, but anyway. So they made the Opportunity Zone Program permanent.
Sarah Florer (08:16.092)
you
Gerry Reihsen (08:37.798)
It wasn't not permanent before. It's just that your ability to invest capital ended in 2027 and then you could continue to hold until 2047. So you could still there still would have been a lot of activity in the space. But now the capital formation dynamics has made permanent. The choosing by the states of Opportunity Zones has been made permanent every 10 years. And so what we have now in OZ
which becomes effective for investments made starting in January 1, 2027. We have the following morphing of benefits. One, instead of a date certain for deferral, every of your original capital gains, which is necessary to start the engine to be able to invest in these things, now every investor gets a five-year deferral.
starting with investments made in 2027 and thereafter. Further, every investor who's able to hold for that five years gets a 10 % reduction in the taxation of their original capital gains, unless that investment is made in a rural Opportunity Zone investment structure, in which case you get a 30 % reduction in the original capital
Sarah Florer (10:04.788)
wow.
Gerry Reihsen (10:07.534)
with gains that you generated to begin the process. You still have the 10-year tax-free upside. And interestingly, an accident may not be an accident, but a result of making it permanent is that for two years from January, so now every seventh year in a decade, the, I should say every sixth year in a decade,
the states get to designate 25 % of their qualifying census tracts as Opportunity Zones. So it keeps morphing and keeps, you know, now the, there's been tremendous, tremendous benefits to existing Opportunity Zones and many of them are above the standards and the standards relate to demographic income in that census tract.
Sarah Florer (10:45.936)
wow.
Gerry Reihsen (11:07.334)
Now every 10 years we get to identify further under-invested communities that can take advantage of this benefit for its community. But the interesting thing is that, so the states have next starting July 1, and they should be working on, well they can't work on it yet because the whole demographic information for the new Opportunity Zones won't be available until the close of this year. So starting early next year, the states should be actively looking at the potential
Sarah Florer (11:34.558)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (11:38.743)
opportunity zones and choosing up to 25 percent of those to be referred to the Treasury Department, the IRS to be vetted and approved as opportunity zones. But the accident, the interesting accident is that from and that will go effective January 1, 2027, those opportunity zones. But the interesting thing is that the old opportunity zones survive for investment until December 31st, 2028. So for 24 months, for two years, you're to have twice as many opportunities.
Sarah Florer (11:50.301)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (12:08.806)
to look at for your investing. I'm not sure if that'll replicate every time they do that, but it's the case now. In any event.
Sarah Florer (12:09.983)
wow.
Sarah Florer (12:18.153)
So I just wanted to just, Gerry, really, it's so interesting to hear you talk about this and I want to hear, I can't wait to hear more. But I just wanted to emphasize a couple of things. Number one, that the history of the Opportunity Zone sounds like there was somebody who was mission driven, who started it as an idea and pushed it forward, and that it did have general bipartisan support for all this while. you know, this is something that I think is good to know about and important to recognize is that
there's a recognized benefit from all these different perspectives here.
Gerry Reihsen (12:53.45)
So let's talk about, if that is a sufficient background to the dynamics of how the program works, let's talk about strategies.
number one, I have represented people with a few tens of thousands of capital gains and more than a hundred million, and I've represented investment funds. So the structure of the statute assumes it's going to be mostly driven by persons from my former walk of life and for 15 years of having an investment fund that is broadly available for investment by anyone.
Sarah Florer (13:35.433)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (13:35.753)
even a public one, by the way. The names escapes me. But you can buy and sell a qualified opportunity fund that is public, the shares. But all the others are private and most raise their capital either through the family office and high net worth community or through the retail channel, capital channel, which is the channel where you and I with our investment portfolio might have a bunch of
public stocks and bonds we invest in, we might put 10 % away for alternative investments. And in that environment, the broker dealers we hire might get a commission or the registered investment advisors who work with us get an asset management fee over the years. In any event, the statute contemplates something called a qualified opportunity fund as the place where capital gains are invested. And then the qualified opportunity fund will set up
what's called Qualified Opportunity Zone businesses to pursue one or more investments in Opportunity Zones. And you might have multiple Qualified Opportunity Zone businesses under that fund. And you have some certain requirements as a QOZB that you have to meet. QOZB means Qualified Opportunity Zone Business. And you only have one requirement as a QOF, Qualified Opportunity Fund, that you have to meet.
The one requirement you have to meet as a Qualified Opportunity Fund is you always have to have, well, each June 30 and December 31st, you have to have had at least 90 % of your total asset value be in qualified assets. Interestingly, a Qualified Opportunity Zone business, the equity you acquire for cash from a Qualified Opportunity Zone business is a qualified asset. Now, underneath that, Qualified Opportunity Zone business
Sarah Florer (15:21.032)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (15:35.319)
business has to have actual investments or has to be an actual business. The investments through Qualified, and by the way, the Qualified Opportunity Zone business doesn't file anything special. It just files as a corporation or a partnership, which you must be under the Opportunity Zone statute at both the QLF level and QLTB level. It just files its return, but it has to meet certain characteristics that it reports up to the QLF to show that it remains, it is and remains a
opportunities on business so that that is still a qualified asset. The only thing, so the only thing a QOF has to have is 90 % of its assets in a qualified opportunities on business, which is generally, you can direct invest directly like in a real estate project at a QOF. There's just not a whole lot of flexibility there. There's all kinds of flexibilities written into a qualified opportunities on business, which I'll discuss. But there's also some limitations which don't apply to a QOF. But in any event,
Sarah Florer (16:06.185)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (16:27.785)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (16:35.142)
almost always you have a qualified opportunity zone business underneath the QF. Now qualified opportunity zone business has to have 70 % of its owned or leased tangible assets as assets that qualify that qualify as and are in an opportunity zone.
So the things that qualify as assets, any lease of a space or asset located within an opportunity zone is qualified. There's no particular additional layer over that. And you quantify the value there by the net present value of the committed lease payments. And that never changes.
Roland Wiederaenders (17:16.739)
No, no minimum job requirements like we have to create at least.
Gerry Reihsen (17:19.638)
No, there's nothing like that. There's now some reporting requirements. The Big Beautiful Bill Act added some reporting requirements, but they're pretty minimal about how many people you've employed and where you... little more detail. There's no reporting requirements before. So there's no job requirements or anything like that. It's just that you have, number one, 70 % or more of your tangible assets be owned or leased property in an opportunity zone, which you acquire from an unrelated party
Sarah Florer (17:20.392)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (17:29.587)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (17:49.495)
and they're either original use assets or substantial improvement assets. know, buying something from outside of the zone and bringing it in is an original use asset, the definition of which is an asset that has not been nor has ever been eligible for depreciation in that opportunity zone.
Sarah Florer (17:56.873)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (18:11.113)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (18:12.82)
So that means that when you buy land and build sticks and bricks from the bottom up, all that is new original use assets. And that is where most of the investment, 95 plus percent of the investments in Optumizone is in real estate development.
Sarah Florer (18:29.641)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (18:31.708)
and, it fits really well with real estate development. It's, it, it per previously was kind of hard to get investors to invest. You had specialized investors, generally real estate, private equity funds, and maybe family offices who invested in development because, and a huge percentage of real estate investments want current yield. Right. And you can't have current yield unless you have current revenue. And if you're developing, won't have any yield for two or three years, any revenue.
The beauty of the Opportunity Zone is it teaches the broad investor space to be patient, to be able to get their unlimited tax free up sign and it introduces an entirely new and much more voluminous capital channel slash channels into real estate development. So
As an investment fund guy, was always a big challenge as I would start a new investment fund in real estate is how do I attract early investors when there's not a revenue stream to provide yield. I don't want to get into all the ways I dealt with that, but there were a lot of ways to deal with it. And many of them require really specific disclosure because we didn't have cash. So we had to say how we were paying distributions in any event.
Sarah Florer (19:44.478)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (19:56.887)
So yeah, it's brought a whole new investor class and group into the development space. And it's done tremendous things. Carson and I are writing an article. I'm kind of holding it up right now because I'm gathering more factual information about what it's done for the, especially the multifamily space across the country in managing and helping to build more product for multifamily. And people are doing single family detached homes.
does build to lease as well under this stance, because you've got to be in it for 10 years, right? So you can't just build and sell. And when you build and sell, that's ordinary income anyway. So you have to build and lease and all. So anyway, one requirement is, and substantial improvement under the OZ 1.0 meant you had to put improvements of at least the value of the tangible asset, which excludes land, if you do in real estate, into the asset to make it a qualified asset.
Sarah Florer (20:29.245)
Hmm.
Right.
Gerry Reihsen (20:56.77)
That's really hard to do. That's not generally economically sensical. Most of the activity in that space has been historical tax credit work because that really offsets your, you know, improvement costs with tax credits. But not a lot has happened there. Interestingly, we've determined that buying homes, personal homes in opportunity zones, even though they've been there forever, even without improving them, qualifies original use asset. Why?
Sarah Florer (20:57.949)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (21:26.91)
And we vetted this, the guy who ran the Treasury Department's IRS's rulemaking agreed with me as well on this. He's become kind of a pal, but in any event, why? Because what's the definition of original use? An asset that has never been eligible nor has been depreciated in an opportunity zone. So a developer of a home can't depreciate it. A person who uses it for their personal home can't depreciate it. So we actually have clients, fund clients who invest in homes
for lease and then they turn into a commercial asset. lease it in opportunity zones that have been there for X number of years. And we have to get a special certification from the seller. And if we can, from prior owners that has never been used as like a home office, never depreciated, it's been always been as a personal use asset. So in any event, that's another interesting, I'm kind of getting into techniques before, while I'm talking about requirements. in any event, another requirement is that
Sarah Florer (22:03.336)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (22:19.006)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (22:26.406)
that the qualified opportunity zone business generated at least 50 % of its revenue from opportunity zones. Well, that works really well for real estate development, right? It's a very place-based, all the revenue is generated right there. But a qualified opportunity zone business does not have to be real estate development. It can be, a dentist practice right now, and a wound care practice right now. I'm doing a...
Sarah Florer (22:44.787)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (22:54.82)
a firm that does translations business, any business virtually, there's some exclusions at the QOZV level, but those exclusions don't apply at the QOF level. So that's times when you might invest from a QOF. But there's certain quote sin businesses in a massage parlor or a place where you buy shots, drinks and golf courses. There's a few exceptions. But if you were doing a development that might include a, again, I'm getting into technical
If you're doing a development that might include an excluded asset, well, you'd invest in the QoZB through the good businesses and you invest in the QOF through the non-good business. I mean, you can, or you could do something with a management agreement for the non-good business.
Sarah Florer (23:37.587)
Huh, where does cannabis fit in?
just as an aside. Where does cannabis fit in? Because a lot of states are doing their cannabis licensing to promote communities that may overlap with what might be identified as an opportunity zone.
Roland Wiederaenders (23:43.225)
Yeah, that's great question, sir.
Gerry Reihsen (23:58.501)
it's generally understood in the space that illegal businesses don't qualify. And so since, Yeah. So since there's, yeah. I mean, so if what we're hearing, from the scuttlebutt at DC that Trump may make essentially through reclassification of marijuana.
Roland Wiederaenders (24:04.08)
No, but I think many states, but it would be federally illegal still.
Sarah Florer (24:08.357)
Is that what it is because it's federally illegal?
Gerry Reihsen (24:22.052)
such that it's a legal federal from their perspective, then it could be coming. Although the cannabis business has become kind of crappy. I mean, don't know if I'd want to be in the cannabis business right now. There's oversupply of the product and I don't know. Anyway, so...
Sarah Florer (24:37.545)
Yeah.
Sarah Florer (24:41.513)
Just as an aside.
Gerry Reihsen (24:44.932)
Yeah, I was just, I was just watching, I just read something in Wall Street Journal about how Miracle Grow, the fertilizer company, developed a whole different division to serve the cannabis space, and it's totally cratered now. And now they're offloading it, because again, it's just not...
Sarah Florer (25:00.331)
no.
Sarah Florer (25:04.955)
It's just been a long time.
Gerry Reihsen (25:04.964)
Any business has these ups and downs, right? Where you have dislocations of supply and demand. So, you know, it's not going to go away, I don't think. I mean, it would go away if everybody was like me. But, so most of the liquor business would go away if there was anybody like me, but not the bourbon side. But it wouldn't be quite as much. But in any event, so maybe.
Sarah Florer (25:22.685)
Yeah.
Roland Wiederaenders (25:29.434)
Well, this has been really good, Gerry. mean, I think just maybe maybe as a summary, I would just want to OK, yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (25:34.789)
Well, let me finish the other way. So the 50 % of revenue is harder to deal with outside of real estate development than if you're an operating business like my dentist practice or whatever, because and it's certainly hard to deal with if you have a company that generates global revenue. Well.
Sarah Florer (25:52.296)
Right.
Gerry Reihsen (25:53.253)
There's ways to deal with that. The IRS recognized that we don't want to limit under-invested communities from having global businesses as long as they're headquartered there and that kind of thing. So they actually have adopted some safe harvests, which we've used in some of our operating business structures. One is if 50 % or more of the hours of your employees are spent in the opportunity zone or if 50 % or more of the cost of your employees are spent in the opportunity zone. And a third one, which
a little more nebulous is if the tangible assets and the management and administration of the business is low, that is necessary to produce revenue is located in opportunity zone. kind of call it a corporate headquarters test that all of your revenue is good revenue. So you can, you, could create Google in an opportunity zone. If we were starting it today and, it would be a good, if it stayed with headquarters and then go and, and Amazon and Google.
Sarah Florer (26:40.237)
wow.
Gerry Reihsen (26:53.186)
take advantage of it. They're building like their, their, their, their new facilities and their warehouses and opportunity zones. Not always, Musk's entire operation down south of Austin is an opportunity zone.
Sarah Florer (26:54.077)
I was just gonna ask,
Sarah Florer (27:04.612)
I figured.
Gerry Reihsen (27:07.522)
Yeah, so what we gonna say Roland, I'm sorry. There's a few other requirements, they're not as material. We deal with them pretty easily. I guess what I would say if Roland, if we're gonna move to something else, I would say let's talk about ways people are utilizing this, what do you, unless you had something else.
Roland Wiederaenders (27:10.103)
no, no, I just.
Roland Wiederaenders (27:24.388)
Well, yeah, mean, for sure. Let's get to that. I was just going to note that this is simpler than what I thought it was, honestly.
Sarah Florer (27:24.627)
I'd love to hear about that, yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (27:33.655)
And it's a crime. I once did a podcast, the title of which is 90 % of investment advisors, accountants, corporate attorneys.
are committing malpractice by not knowing enough about the opportunity zone to refer their clients to it. And people just don't. And part of the reason I think that they didn't was that it seemed like it was a perishable dynamic. So why would I spend a lot of time getting to know it and then five years from now there's nothing there and my clients can't take advantage of it. It wasn't a good excuse, but I think that might have been part of the reason. Now that it's permanent, there's no dang excuse.
Sarah Florer (27:59.837)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (28:06.729)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (28:14.375)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (28:15.018)
You know, I mean any &A lawyer should be telling his seller, you might, you know, by the way, you can, okay, let me let me give you one technique which is very common. A person generates capital gains and creates his own captive self-directed opportunity zone structure. It's kind of like a Roth IRA on steroids, right? Because there's no Roth IRA limits. You can put as much you want. You can put it, let's say you had a million dollars of capital gain.
Sarah Florer (28:37.693)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (28:44.618)
you put into your QOF. Well, you could supplement that with $9 million of lending to it. Now you got $10 million of cash that you can put down in QOZBs to have a portfolio of tax-free investments that you make, right? And you'll still, if you put $1 million in capital gains and $9 million of non-capital gains as equity, well, you would only get 10 % of your tax-free upside. But if you make a loan for the 9%, that's a non-taxable transaction,
the loan and the repayment. So that's like paying back basis subject to federal minimum interest rates. But that's like just paying back basis, the same basis you'd be paying back for your equity. Then 100 % of your upside now is tax free. Whereas if you did it wrong and you didn't advise your CPA as to how to report correctly, you might end up with only 10 % of your upside be tax free. Now, interestingly, the 10 year period run
Sarah Florer (29:37.982)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (29:44.311)
from when you invest in the QOF. It's not the holding period of the assets.
So we do a lot of these captive arrangements for people who generate capital gains. One thing they do is they why not? I mean, if I get a tax deferral, why not set it up this way? I don't charge a heck of a lot for this. I tend to do a fixed fee arrangement for it. It depends upon the complexity. And then the fixed fee is pretty reasonable for the tax savings you're getting. Not pretty reasonable, very reasonable. And I do a fixed
because everybody's a neophyte in space and they have to call you all the time. And if they don't call you because they're worried about hourly rates, they're going to screw something up. So if they screw something up, it's going to be on me too. So that's why I do a fixed fee most of the time for these capital self-directed insurance. What's that, Roland?
Roland Wiederaenders (30:33.828)
The Thing.
Roland Wiederaenders (30:37.658)
Yeah. It's just that that all you all you can eat model. I'm really scared of that, but I understand why you're saying that.
Gerry Reihsen (30:45.164)
Yeah, and so the interesting thing is, the interesting thing is, under the QOZB, you don't have to invest your cash immediately. You can have, I can structure these arrangements so you have up to about four years to look around for an investment. Meanwhile, your 10-year period has been running the entire time.
Sarah Florer (31:01.662)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (31:07.37)
So let's say at the end of four years you find an investment to make, you only have a six-year hold before that asset can be sold tax-free. And let's say you keep your captive for 10 years, now you can buy and sell assets all you like tax-free.
No holding period required. So some of my clients have said, have said, look, I've got my own captive here. I've got a few million dollars in it. You know, when I get to the 10 year period, I'm going to start buying a fleet of automobiles, take bonus depreciation, protect all my rental income from that year with that, lease them out on to a row, sell them the next year with the tax fully depreciated. But you don't, there's no depreciation recapture. Well, an opportunity zone
statute, you both skip depreciation recapture tax and capital gains tax. So they can generate free income every year and have a brand new fleet of cards every year, right now in Turo. And that, mean, those are kind of techniques. can, another technique, you can buy barrels of whiskey, right? And you, and your business is to age barrels of whiskey and you age them in an opportunity zone. And then when I say whiskey, I'm talking mostly about bourbon. The actual
best time to age bourbon for three to five years. Although some ten-year bourbon gets really high prices. once you've been, you know, your holding period, once you've been five years with your holding period, now you're right in the sweet spot for when bourbon becomes most valuable until it gets to be really valuable. And I mean, there's so many things you can do with this, right? And the other thing is that once you have this structure and you build up a bunch of quality
Sarah Florer (32:45.416)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (33:05.114)
I Same with the 10 % holdback you can have at the QOF. You can go in, I actually have a Bitcoin investment fund structure, which I intend to implement if I ever do, again, another investment fund platform as I was talking to Roland about earlier. And you can invest.
Sarah Florer (33:05.171)
Wow.
Sarah Florer (33:20.123)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (33:22.134)
in Bitcoin for that 10 % if you want to. So there's just so much flexibility and optionality and benefits and there's really no downside. So let's say you do your own captive self-directed opportunities on vehicle and you come up to four years and you have not found anything to do. You just dissolve it and pay your tax. Move on. No penalty. No penalty. You got all that deferral. Now
Sarah Florer (33:24.605)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (33:52.579)
That's one way to invest. again, under that investment, might, I mean, I've got clients who've invested in short-term rental cabins up in Broken Bow, Oklahoma, or in the Ozarks or in what's that, Smoky Mountains or whatever place. So these are private people, you know, doing their private little investments in cabins and Airbnb's. I've got clients who are doing, I got developer clients. The large majority of the real estate development, which is
more than 95 % of the space is multifamily. But I've got real estate clients that are developers in the space that do opportunity zone and non-opportunity zone developments. But the opportunity zone developments are anything from multifamily, not a lot of office, just because office in general is kind of depressed. A lot of self-storage, which often is away from town, right? A lot of induction.
Sarah Florer (34:26.014)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (34:52.422)
industrial, office warehouse, flex stuff. And then of course I've got clients that have a QOF own investment fund and they have a broad array of, they have a broad strategy investing all over the country in opportunities zones. And there's going to be new strategies that come to fore. In OZ 2.0, you're going to see funds that invest only in rural so that their clients can get that 30 % reduction in the
Sarah Florer (35:17.789)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (35:22.342)
Oh, by the way, substantial improvement under OZ 2.0 remains 100 % of the value of the asset unless it's a rural asset, then it's 50 % of the value of the asset. now that might become something you can do under the rural arrangements. Rural means under the statute, the new statute, a census tract with 50,000 or less persons that does not abut a census tract with 50,000 or more persons. So that makes a lot. And that kind of
Sarah Florer (35:31.927)
wow.
Roland Wiederaenders (35:32.518)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (35:52.255)
makes the Zoom town concept that became popular during the COVID isolation dynamics, you know, where people said, well, if I don't have to come to the office, I'm going to go work at the lake. Right. And they called those Zoom towns because people were participating in their home office and all their via Zoom and Teams wasn't popular yet. So they didn't call it Teams town or Google meets.
Sarah Florer (36:07.347)
Hmm.
Roland Wiederaenders (36:17.423)
Ha
Sarah Florer (36:17.577)
One thing Microsoft didn't have control.
Gerry Reihsen (36:22.274)
Yeah, so that makes it a Zoom town fund really interesting to, you know, invest in businesses and real estate developments within a one to three hour drive from major hubs. Right. So there'd be strategies like that. The standards.
Sarah Florer (36:34.43)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (36:43.14)
because of the rule thing and because the standards for opportunity zones have become tighter, in other words, they have to be more disadvantaged by about 10%.
multifamily may decline as a percentage of the investment dollars and instead things that tend to be out of town may increase like industrial data centers, things like that. So that's what we're going to see.
Sarah Florer (37:11.581)
Hmm.
Roland Wiederaenders (37:14.321)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (37:16.613)
Is that what's behind some of the data center drive in Texas?
Gerry Reihsen (37:21.802)
I've honestly tried, I've got, so because I was in the real estate investment fund business, I know people in the data center fund business and I've tried and I've got clients with assets right next to Texas's biggest real estate land, right next to Texas's biggest nuclear power plant. And one of the things about a data center, you want to have reliable electricity. It's the, internet is not a big deal. I mean, that's, that those pipes are big enough.
Sarah Florer (37:42.045)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (37:46.419)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (37:51.659)
you know, pretty much wherever you are. But you are seeing data centers built next to power plants, nuclear or otherwise. And then they do a dedicated power agreement with the data center. But I've not gotten any of my data center colleagues on board. mean, they're not, it's not that they're not on board. just haven't pulled the trigger. Well, and they don't tend to have, they have an investment fund, is not OZ benefited. They'd have to create
Sarah Florer (38:01.961)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (38:12.765)
busy with other stuff.
Gerry Reihsen (38:21.542)
a separate side by side for the OZ side. But yeah, no, that hasn't been driving to a significance that what's been driving it is the need for data centers, frankly. But in any event, I think that may become a bigger element, a bigger proportion of the real estate side in the opting zone space starting in, you know, 2027.
Sarah Florer (38:22.653)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (38:31.102)
Yeah.
Sarah Florer (38:44.337)
What about crypto miners? that another thing? Yeah, you could do in an opportunity zone.
Gerry Reihsen (38:47.8)
That's a business. Yeah, sure. That can work. It can work. I actually did a whole. Earlier on, a few years ago, I represented a public crypto miner on the London Stock Exchange. I developed a whole strategy for how they could do, you know, take advantage of it. They did not decide to proceed, but I'm ready for what any crypto miner wants to take advantage of this. I've already done all the work. yeah, crypto miners.
Sarah Florer (39:03.465)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (39:07.688)
Hmm.
Roland Wiederaenders (39:09.906)
You
Sarah Florer (39:12.585)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (39:18.374)
I used to do a lot of crypto work, by the way. I'm kind of one these guys when there's something new, I need to understand it or I feel confused. I don't want to feel confused. So when crypto got bigger, started, I mean, I was really confused by these white papers. They didn't make a lot of sense. What I learned is they don't make a lot of sense in a lot of cases. I wasn't as stupid as I thought I was. But anyway, there's other businesses that make more sense in the crypto space. And now we're moving, I guess, toward some of the nonsense.
Sarah Florer (39:27.589)
Yeah, that's good to hear.
Sarah Florer (39:36.425)
It wasn't you.
Gerry Reihsen (39:47.827)
things making more sense because the current administration wants to make more of that stuff sensical, legal. But in any event, she said something else I was going to mention. So, one of the requirements is that,
you kind of like 1031 and if you're familiar with 1031 investment, if you sell a real estate asset and you put the proceeds of the sale with a qualified intermediary, kind of an escrow agent, you can go find another property. if you buy that, if you designate that property within 45 days and you close on it within 180 days, you can just move your basis and not pay tax on the first one, right? Well, a couple of techniques come out of that. One thing people don't generally know is that
Sarah Florer (40:27.561)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (40:36.23)
you can treat a failed 1031 investment as an installment basis sale. So you can choose either the date of the sale or the date of failure, 180 days later, as the capital gains event. the reason I mention that is like 1031, you only have 180 days to invest in a QOF. So you would think that, oh, if somebody wants to pursue a 1031
Roland Wiederaenders (40:52.839)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (41:06.15)
deal, the time period is running concurrently. if I miss the 1031, because you can't get your money back until the 180th day, they got to hold it that long. 180th first day. If I won't be able to do an opportunity, but it's not true. You have another 180 days after the failure of a 1031. And I tell you what, there's another frustration of mine. I've been to all kinds of qualified intermediaries to tell them about this. They don't care. They don't tell their clients about it. They don't care.
Sarah Florer (41:14.633)
Yeah.
Sarah Florer (41:21.681)
wow.
Sarah Florer (41:34.59)
Huh.
Gerry Reihsen (41:36.023)
there's no money in it for me. I'm just going to give the money back. I don't want to get involved in the tar baby of telling people that they have a tax deal they can pursue. Anyway, it's really annoying. I keep asking people, know, I guess I got to figure out trade groups for qualified intermediaries and go give a speech or something. But I mean, to your heart, you should tell people about it anyway. The other thing, though, is that there are 180 days
Sarah Florer (41:40.475)
Yeah.
Sarah Florer (41:44.915)
That's interesting.
Sarah Florer (41:56.905)
That would make sense.
Roland Wiederaenders (41:57.53)
offers.
Sarah Florer (42:00.51)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (42:06.026)
applies to the direct person, who generates capital gains. However, if you generate capital gains through a K-1 reporting entity, which are trusts, partnerships, S corporations, etc., you have that 180 days, that
you know, from the date that entity generated the capital gains. But you also have a period from December 31st of the year of the gain until September 10th of the next year under the concept that the IRS adopted that you're not going to know your gains until you get your K1 and you won't get your K1 anytime soon. So what's a technique that we use? We tell people who are about to sell capital assets that are held directly, let's get that into a partnership.
Sarah Florer (42:45.416)
Wow.
Gerry Reihsen (42:56.934)
not going to pay any more tax, there's a little cost in building the partnership. Transfer the assets to the partnership. Now you have much more flexibility about when you can invest in a Qualified Opportunity Fund. And that becomes really important for gains in 2026. Why?
because to take advantage of OZ 2.0, you have to invest in a QOF in 2027. So if you have assets you're going to sell in 2026 and you put them into a partnership, you have until September 10, 2027 to invest in a QOF and get all the new benefits of OZ 2.0.
Sarah Florer (43:35.177)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (43:43.14)
I mean, if you generate the cap gains in the second half of 2026, I mean, you can still take advantage of 2027 because you have 180 days, but if you're doing it earlier in the year, but in any event, that flexibility is really helpful.
Sarah Florer (43:56.073)
That's really, you know what's interesting, Gerry, is just the level of detail that you're able to share with us here without any notes. It tells me you're really passionate about this.
Roland Wiederaenders (44:05.053)
haha
Gerry Reihsen (44:06.05)
Well, I've been doing it for... Well, I mean, I am passionate because it does a number of things. Again, it's frustrating to generally see that opportunity zone, excuse me, tax incentives are not accessible by the common taxpayer. This one is very, if someone just tell them about it, this is very accessible to the common taxpayer.
Sarah Florer (44:25.406)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Florer (44:30.217)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (44:34.564)
And while, you know, many firms charge you an hourly fee to do it and you'll end up paying 30, 40k to set these up.
I've got it down that I'm happy to do at a reasonable fixed fee. My minimum fixed fee is generally $12.5. If it's a complex thing or an operating agreement where you're to have more levers to pull, it might be from $15 to $25. bottom is to go, if you're working, then this is something. Here's an interesting thing. I started my career with a very large corporate law firm called Gibson Dun & Crutcher. I there for about 10 years.
Sarah Florer (45:01.693)
Hmm. Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (45:15.238)
It is and I went on my own first as a lawyer and then as an entrepreneur. But it's hard for a quality corporate securities attorney to fight for business against the big firms. Right. I mean, even in my own fund platform, my partners were public company guys and they were very uncomfortable not using name firms. I mean, since I controlled who I use and I could use people I thought were of value, they didn't get much of a say.
Sarah Florer (45:28.265)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (45:38.44)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (45:45.111)
So we actually just hired great attorneys that had good value. And we had some big firms like DLA we used and a few others. But mostly I used colleagues I knew from Gibson Don or whatever who had the same skills and were now in an environment like mine. But here's the beautiful thing for somebody like me. And by the way, here's advice to lawyers.
Sarah Florer (45:48.233)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (46:11.294)
If you're in a general field like commercial litigation or corporate securities, find a niche.
that you can be expert in, that it's hard for the big firms to be expert in. And the reason why it's hard for the big firms to be expert in is they're taking a flood of all kinds of transactional work. They're not able, like I have been, to spend 90 percent. I do all kinds of corporate securities work. I don't just do opportunities on stuff. you know, you get referred a lot of stuff. And then doing 80 to 90 percent of my work is opportunities on stuff now. But they don't have the luxury of having the focus to learn the nuances and become
you know, highly expert. In fact, the same with CPAs. The only CPAs that I've worked with who screwed up my clients' arrangements have been the big four firms. And the reason they screw it up is because the online tax preparers and tax advisors do not have the expertise. And, you know, there's a group that has the expertise that tends to get these big, big four CPAs who work with the bigger investment funds, but that doesn't bleed down to the people who have
Sarah Florer (46:54.75)
Yeah.
Sarah Florer (47:01.213)
Yeah, I heard that.
Gerry Reihsen (47:20.472)
Excuse me, who have their self-directed million dollar to tens of millions of dollar opportunities. So the other benefit of work of my for my clients working with me is I know the guys who are really good CPAs. Like me, I the luxury of being able to focus on this. I can find a CPA for a smallish captive fund who only charge you five to six thousand dollars for you end up with three entities, QOF, QOZB and a corporate
Sarah Florer (47:34.27)
Hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (47:50.455)
entity if you have partnership arrangements to have a tiny percentage of both all of them file tax returns. If you have a small one I've got a group that'll charge you 5-6k a year is all to do all three returns. If you're getting more complex like I've got groups right under the umbrella of the big four dynamics will charge you 30-40 a year but it's worth doing it and they're expert. but that's the you know and look
Sarah Florer (48:07.667)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (48:20.864)
I learned this when I was nine or ten. My mom liked to collect coins.
And she got me into it. And what I learned, if you just want to sit down and do something as an avocation or a hobby, you become an expert pretty fast. And I can remember at like age 11 and 12 going to coin shows. And I'm also an avid reader. I would read all about, you know, I'd have all these books about coins from the Roman times or now whatever to the big pences that were pennies that were that big to pieces of eight.
Sarah Florer (48:35.665)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (48:57.254)
where they broke the silver thing into eight pieces. That's why they call it pieces of eight. But I can remember at about 10 or 12 going to coin shows and being amazed at how the adult coin people were ripping people off because they didn't have the expertise to know they were being ripped off. So I have this certain thing where I like to, I'd like understanding something that takes some effort to understand.
Sarah Florer (49:01.565)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (49:27.174)
and kind of become proficient in it.
Roland Wiederaenders (49:32.628)
Well Gerry, you're going to be a great resource for us in the future and we're for sure going to be referring people to you. Where can we find these census maps in Texas?
Sarah Florer (49:39.379)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (49:43.833)
Well, one of the larger consultants, non-law firm consultants, is called Novagravit and Company. They produce an Opportunity Zone map that I like to use. But if you search Opportunity Zone maps, you'll get a bunch of them you can look at.
Sarah Florer (50:03.634)
Okay.
Gerry Reihsen (50:03.876)
Novogradic has already just recently done a conjectural map for the new ones. Now, it's only conjectural because they don't have the final demographic information, but since they've got the conjectural one, as soon as the final demographic, it's going to be available too. But they're not exclusive to the... I work with Novogradic a lot. They're quite good and also really good folks, uniformly, Novogradic. But in any event, I work with lot of good folks.
Sarah Florer (50:16.201)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry Reihsen (50:33.83)
work with people aren't good folks because they annoy me if they're not good folks. but there's maps all over the place that you can look at. And by the way, in the suite of information that I sent you, Roland, there's a map at the bottom you can click on and look at.
Roland Wiederaenders (50:48.434)
Okay, well we'll make sure that that gets in the show notes, Gerry. And you know, we want to be respectful of our audience's time. We've got, we're at 50 minutes now. So I don't know. mean, is there anything that we haven't covered that we want to make sure that we tell people we've covered a lot of information here for sure.
Sarah Florer (50:48.955)
Okay, great.
Sarah Florer (51:07.261)
This is amazing information.
Gerry Reihsen (51:09.228)
I think we've gone a fairly deep dive in a fairly short period of time. There's more...
Every time something comes with me with a new business or concept, there's a new way to deal with it. I'm not very good at dealing with hypotheticals, but if you actually have a business model to bring me, like I'm doing a mobile dog groomer right now, which is a little bit tricky because those tangible vans are going all over the place, right? Not staying up. But we're structuring it. by the way, here's one thing. And here's what I'm going to use in that dynamic. Any business could be an opportunity zone business to some extent. How? By taking the administrative and
Sarah Florer (51:21.32)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Florer (51:28.444)
Yeah.
Gerry Reihsen (51:46.027)
management people, putting them in an opportunity zone office and doing a management agreement with the other businesses no matter where they are. And now that management business is an opportunity zone business. So if you just sell the unified enterprise later, the net present value of the income that causes the purchase price that is allocatable to the management company is going to be tax free.
Sarah Florer (51:53.466)
Wow.
Sarah Florer (52:11.155)
That's amazing.
Roland Wiederaenders (52:12.872)
think we've got some clients that could take advantage of that maybe.
Sarah Florer (52:14.798)
Yeah, I can already think of a few.
Gerry Reihsen (52:15.932)
Every client can take advantage of it. Even if you have a huge manufacturing with lots of tangible assets that are not on Opportunity Zone.
You can always create them. By the way, I used to do physician practice management. I used represent physician practice management companies. And what they would do is they'd buy physician practices. And since they couldn't actually practice medicine, they'd leave the practice to the doctor and then do all the management stuff behind it and basically bleed most of the income except what goes to the management company. That is a model that every business could use.
Sarah Florer (52:48.937)
Hmm.
Roland Wiederaenders (52:51.732)
Well, maybe we'll get some calls for that and if we can't handle it, we know who to rope in.
Sarah Florer (52:54.172)
Yeah.
But Gerry also.
Gerry Reihsen (52:57.88)
Well, I love working with FBFK. As you know, I was with them as of counsel. The founder of FBFK actually worked for me right out of law school at another law firm, guy named Kyle Ferguson. That's the F in FBFK. And I've known those guys for decades, most of them. And I was of counsel. What happened is, Carson, my son Carson and I built a practice that we couldn't handle the work anymore. And I was looking around for someplace to park it. And I talked to Kyle and some other folks there.
Sarah Florer (53:10.441)
Yeah, well, you know, Kyle.
Sarah Florer (53:15.753)
Wow.
Sarah Florer (53:24.552)
Huh.
Gerry Reihsen (53:27.874)
and Carson went on as an associate. I went on as of counsel because, you know, I'm a little bit randomized rather than actually join the firm as a partner. And I still work a lot with FBK. They're a fantastic firm vis-a-vis. It's like I talked about the big four umbrella underneath you have comparable, if not the same qualified experts and professionals. That's like FBK. FBK has guys from big firms and not all, but guys and gals.
Sarah Florer (53:40.146)
Great.
Gerry Reihsen (53:57.804)
from big firms who are highly professional and the cost to value, they're the kind of firms I hired when I had my businesses. And I work with them a lot. And obviously I work with a lot because I want my son, Karsten, who has three of my grandkids to be successful.
Sarah Florer (54:07.913)
Thanks for that.
Roland Wiederaenders (54:10.132)
Well, that's great. Getting an endorsement.
Sarah Florer (54:16.521)
Thanks for that. Well, listen, think, you know, I can already tell, I hope that we get another chance to interview you as things develop with the Opportunity Zones. I totally agree that it makes sense to keep spreading the news as much as we can. I think, you know, soon, maybe as important deadlines approach or important changes approach, we could do another episode, Gerry, and just try and spread the word as much as possible.
and definitely take on board your recommendation, because I already have some ideas swimming around about what might be possible with Opportunity Zone. So I'm so grateful to hear all of this.
Gerry Reihsen (54:51.012)
And, and, and I've done a lot of different other podcasts. that you, if you listen to them, it may trigger some more, um, defined subjects to talk about. Um, and maybe we can talk about it from time to time. If there, you know, a new model that arises for the space, that kind of thing.
Sarah Florer (55:01.212)
Okay.
Sarah Florer (55:04.635)
Okay, no, I would love to.
I would love to. Thank you. All right. Well, let's we'll just finish up here. Thanks, everyone, for joining us today on Alt Investing Made Easy. If you like this episode, please like and subscribe, follow our channel. And thank you so much for being with us today, Gerry.
Roland Wiederaenders (55:11.828)
That'd be great.
Gerry Reihsen (55:26.828)
It was a huge pleasure.
Roland Wiederaenders (55:29.064)
And remember everyone, take aim with your alternative investing strategies.
Sarah Florer (55:34.003)
See you next time.