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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Ben: Shit is so wild
right now on the internet.
I'm like, is Neopets gonna come back?
Are we gonna all have to go back to
Neopets to like market ourselves?
Casey: I mean, Tamagotchis are back.
Emily: Oh, yeah.
or Tamagotchis...
Ben: I have a story outline coming up
that could possibly involve Tamagotchi
in a way I'm really hoping will get
approved, but I think definitely won't.
, Emily: lockdown gift to myself
was an Evangelion Tamagotchi.
Casey: Ooh,
Emily: It
Ben: it's still alive, knowing you.
Emily: actually, well, it ran out of
batteries because I loved it that hard.
Jeremy: So it came unplugged
from the, cord thing, you
Emily: yeah, I got, it's, uh,
umbilical cable got unplugged.
but it's wild.
I loved the shit out of that thing,
and like, it was always like, you
could hatch Kauru, and I'm like, I
have to do this 24 7, and I was like,
looking up all the tutorials and stuff.
Ben: That checks out.
Casey: that's a good
lockdown gift, honestly.
Emily: yeah.
Casey: Not all of us can make a
movie with our family in lockdown.
Emily: That's true.
Ben: I don't know how sci fi they'll
let me make it, or if it's set
exactly in 1999 or earlier, but my
idea is to make the Y2K bug be the
hive mind vengeance intelligence of
all the angry, neglected Tamagotchis.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, we're talking about what might
be my vote for at least one of the,
if not the, best horror movie of 2022.
A hidden gem, I would say.
A little film called Hellbender.
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a panel
of cinephiles and encinobites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf sexy vampire
binary, my co host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: I think I'm starting to figure
out, Folk Horror, I think I'm starting
to figure out, you fuck around for
an hour fifteen, whether that's good
fucking around or bad fucking around,
and then in the last twelve minutes
you remember you're a movie and you
pull out the craziest fucking shit
like the audience has ever seen.
Jeremy: That's where it's at.
And the cinnamon roll of Cenobites,
our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: Good, that's my shit, man.
this is my shit.
I have one complaint about this
movie, but I will get to that later.
Jeremy: And our guest night, the writer
of Buffy the Last Vampire Slayer,
Dungeons Dragons, Ravenloft, Archie
Horror Comics, and My Little Pony Comics,
comics and horror writer, Casey Gilley.
Casey, how are you tonight?
Casey: Good.
I, I love hearing all of these reactions
to folk horror because I became a
parent six years ago and what people
don't tell you before you become a
parent is that that is folk horror.
Welcome to it.
It's yours for legally 18 years and it's
just so fun finding out, fucking around
and finding out for a really long time.
Jeremy: Oh yeah, I've got two
of them, so they're, they
Casey: You, you went for the sequel!
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben: Jeremy, do they like My Little
Pony or is that just like Dad's job?
Jeremy: The younger one
still likes My Little Pony.
The old one is a teenager, so she is
Ben: Oh, definitely no, no,
that's not happening, yeah, yep.
Jeremy: She is also the one that when
the first time I told her I was writing
a My Little Pony comic, she said, me too.
So, it's equal parts putting me in my
place, but also like, yeah, go for it.
You do it.
Ben: You really gotta
love that, that, that.
Childhood value, like, childhood,
I love you, teenager, I hate this
thing, like, slow march to adulthood,
it's like, nah, this thing fucking
rolled, I like it again and have
money now, so I can buy things for it.
Jeremy: things were simpler
back when I liked this thing.
All right.
Uh, I'm doing the recap on this one.
So I'm going to go
through this pretty fast.
So we have a lot of time to talk about it.
Cause I feel like there's a lot
of talking to be done on this one.
This movie is directed and written by
John Adams, Zelda Adams, and Toby Poser.
It is a family movie.
It stars Zelda Adams, Toby
Poser, and Lulu, uh, Adams.
Zelda is Izzy, the kid in the
story, and Toby plays Mother.
Mother doesn't have a
name other than Mother.
And then, uh, Lulu is the friend
Amber who will show up later.
So we open with a woman in some sort of
period in which they're hanging witches
who is being hung by a group of women.
It doesn't work out.
They shoot her several times after she...
continues to live after being
hung, uh, until eventually somebody
moves to stab her and she catches
fire and launches into the sky.
Cut to present.
Um,
Ben: that was a gender reveal party.
Jeremy: what most gender
reveal parties look like.
So
Emily: I want to go, though.
Someone tries to kill me, I'm just, space.
Jeremy: yeah, so we have a mother
daughter rock band, Hellbender.
They play a hot song.
They all have, like, they play a
lot of music that's in this movie
and it's all pretty fucking awesome.
That's the most impressive thing about
this is so often songs in movies played
by people in the movie are not good.
these are good.
So mother is going to town and her
daughter Izzy wants to come with, but
there is a clear understanding she
cannot, though we don't yet know why.
A man in town identifies.
It is clear that he knows the
mom, but that she hasn't aged.
He is clearly an older man, and he
says that she was his mom's nurse.
Which seems impossible unless,
ooh, something's going on.
Mom comes home and does some
distinctly witchy shit in the forest.
Making up some words and, and
asking to be heard by something.
She brings home a bunch of food
from the forest, lots of twigs and
berries and mushrooms and stuff.
And uses her witchy finger
painting to spy on her daughter.
Drawing eyes and touching them with
her hand, covering her other eye.
The daughter meets a, a lost hiker who
mentions that his niece lives nearby.
Uh, then she's about Izzy's age.
Izzy says she's sick and
the man can't come near her.
Uh, and that's why she doesn't
want to interact with him.
Uh, mom shows up and finds the
hiker there and is none too happy.
Sends Izzy back home and presumably
is leading the man out of the forest.
It's always a good sign when the
strange woman you meet in the forest
asks if, uh, you have a wife or kids.
Uh, you should always say yes I guess,
cause he doesn't, he says no, and then
he gets levitated and turned to dust.
Mom then talks to and slaughters a deer in
the forest to do some other related magic.
Izzy decides to go looking for this
niece, who supposedly lives the
next mountain over, and finds her,
Amber, uh, out swimming in a pool.
Amber is very teenager Offering
Izzy a beer and making cool jokes
about how when she says she's sick,
she's like, what, she got an STD?
Which annoyed me, which is how I
know it was real teenager speech.
Mom goes to visit her, cool room
with the impossibly old pictures
of her and a whispering book.
To get in, she has to put her
hand on a sigil on the door and
a key pops out of her flesh.
Neat trick.
Pretty gross.
Emily: You don't have that?
Jeremy: nah, I don't
have one of those rooms.
My house is like less than 10 years old.
So,
Casey: Yeah, they stopped doing that.
Mid 80s, it's the flesh locks
are just an old house thing, I
Emily: Oh, well, you
Ben: I mean, I will say, you can get that
specialty ordered, but like, it does cost
a lot, which is great for my company,
because the fucking margins on that are
Jeremy: you got to be sure there's a
picture on the listing too, because
fleshlock is a lot of different things.
Casey: It's also really, it's really
hard to get like a house sitter
if you have one of those things.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily: yeah.
I mean, well, there's the one room.
Ben: I do like the implication,
though, that, like, it generates an
entirely new key every time, and it
just has, like, so many fucking keys.
Emily: I feel like the
Ben: I really like that implication.
But she keeps putting it down
and it's just like a fucking
night table full of keys.
Emily: Oh, I didn't see that.
Sounds
Jeremy: no bones in her hand, but
Casey: or she's a swinger,
and those are different keys.
Jeremy: Mmm, there you go.
Casey: Could be.
Jeremy: Mom has prophetic dreams
about Izzy calling her a liar and
being pulled away into darkness.
Izzy clearly has a crush on Amber and
steals her barrettes and, uh, learns
that the house that she's actually
swimming at isn't, isn't her house at
all, but belongs to some city people
who, uh, who don't actually live up
here and they're trespassing in a pool.
She's been doing this the whole time.
So she,
Emily: is what she calls them, which is
Jeremy: yes, city it's.
Izzy, uh, is now inspired to, like,
want to go out and do things Amber
has said that, you know, she should
come play a party when she has one at
some point, so Izzy is, is asking mom
about, uh, going out and playing music.
Mom shuts that shit down quick.
Which leads Izzy to go back to hang
out with Amber and Amber's friends this
time, uh, as they have a pool party at
this place where they're trespassing.
She plays some drums for them
and they do shots of tequila.
Uh, one of the boys whose name I've
already forgotten because he doesn't
matter puts a live worm in one of the
cups of tequila and Izzy ends up drinking
it and immediately starts freaking
out and seeing things and having...
Weird vision, looking very stoned for the
most part and does an incredible scream.
The man who owns the house shows
up in the middle of this and
chases them all off into the woods.
Now Izzy is tripping balls in the woods.
And with nothing but Amber's bathing
suit, uh, on She looks like maybe she's
going to kiss Amber, at which point Amber
says she's not gay, but she knows some
friends that Izzy, she can introduce Izzy
to, which I guess is sort of a middling
response to somebody trying to kiss you.
It's not the worst.
Um, Izzy then grabs Amber by the
throat, which is not how to respond to
Ben: I mean, yeah, like, that's
that could've been the response.
Like, that would that, for example,
would've been a worse response.
Jeremy: Yeah, Amber tells her to fuck
off, uh, and takes off into the woods,
which, you know, in If you're watching
the movie, you're like, that's harsh,
but also some, some rando I've met twice
grabbed me by the throat in the woods.
I would also probably
tell them to fuck off.
Ben: Yeah, I gotta say, Amber's
response to things in this movie
does feel pretty spot on, even if it
very much does not work out for her.
Emily: Yeah.
I mean, she's a real one.
Casey: Yeah.
Emily: I
Ben: She is a real one.
Emily: she's a real one, although she did
allow the dismissal of the vegetarianism
Ben: Yeah, the whole
worm thing was fucked up.
Emily: yeah,
Casey: But in terms of, like, fucked
up things teenagers do, listen,
Emily: yeah, that's,
Casey: weird girl wanders up to the
house that you're squatting in, you
befriend her, you lend her a bathing
suit, which is really intimate,
Emily: yeah,
Casey: and then, like, maybe she's
gonna kiss you and you're a supportive
queen and you're like, that is not my
thing but I'll set you up, and then
this girl grabs you by the throat.
Like, come on.
Like, I think that Amber
Ben: Oh, yeah.
Casey: doing her best here.
Emily: yeah.
Amber was actually,
Jeremy: Amber.
Amber also, like, I'm also not into that,
Ben: I think AJ, I, I really,
I put the blame on AJ for being
the weird, like, No, you have to
drink the worm, that's the rules!
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: down, AJ.
This isn't your fucking pool, even.
Casey: this isn't your friend.
You didn't find this weird girl
and give her a bathing suit.
Let's listen to, uh,
what Amber wants to do.
Jeremy: Yeah, the, the other girl
whose name I've already forgotten
is, is also perfectly reasonable.
It's like, no, you
shouldn't make her do that.
Um,
Ben: her, only flaw is that
she's not very good at drums.
Which is a flaw I also
share, so who am I to judge?
Emily: Yeah.
Casey: Relatable teenagers.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: yeah.
Izzy, uh, tries to go back
to get her clothes but runs
into the owner of the house.
He says he's going to call the cops
and she needs to come with him and
we get a hard cut to Izzy's mom
watching her return back to the house.
Izzy fesses up to Everything
except not telling her mom about
what exactly happened to this
man, or that this man was there.
As far as the going to the pool and
everything, she's like, that all happened.
Izzy's mom admits that she's not
in fact sick, she's dangerous,
that's why she keeps her locked up.
Mom tells Izzy that the worm made
her freak out because she consumed
life and the fear of death.
And that's where magic
comes from, and they are...
They are hellbenders, they are witches
of a sort who consume life to do magic.
Mom finds Izzy in the forest looking
at caterpillars and asks if she
plans on eating them because the
hairs get stuck in your teeth.
She then suggests that Izzy will get more
power if she eats something bigger and
smarter like a rat or a dog or a deer.
At which point Izzy asks what happens
if she eats a person and mom's
like, then you'll know true power.
Then Izzy asks if this is a
dream and they both wake up.
So, mom has been giving dream advice
that she should not be giving to
Izzy and Izzy has taken it to heart.
Ben: Also, credit to that caterpillar.
That's why they evolved those
hairs, so you wouldn't eat them.
That's just, that's just good
caterpillar evolution doing its job.
Casey: Works on birds, works on demons.
Emily: Yeah, woolly bear caterpillar turns
into a moth, turns into a, I believe, a
sphinx moth, and real, real witchcraft
knowledge here apparently you can tell
the way the year is going to turn out
weather wise by observing the stripe on
a woolly, woolly bear caterpillar's body,
so depending on the stripe, you can tell
It's going to be a wet year or dry year.
Ben: that's really cool.
Also, unfortunately, now, most years,
the wing just starts catching on fire.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, I mean, we have other
means now, just like mom said, we don't
have to be like, do that anymore, but
Ben: I'm sorry I made that bleak.
Emily: no, it's okay.
Jeremy: Now, okay, so now Mom knows
she has to teach Izzy something.
She takes her out and splits a caterpillar
with her and tries to teach her how
to make a flower on a dead twig.
Izzy tries, and the twig
starts pouring blood.
Oops!
That's why she can't leave the mountains.
Now we have a montage of Izzy learning
magic over another cool Hellbender number.
Izzy is doing some increasingly suspicious
shit that Mom tries to overlook.
When Mom goes to consult her vision
book, she sees a vision of Izzy
turning to dust and disappearing.
Apparently it's been a year now since the
summer or it's, sometime the next year.
Mom goes to town and Izzy goes
to hang out with, the Whispering
Spellbook and The Secret Room.
She sees visions of the opening scene
of the movie, as well as someone
in a goat mask making a big fire.
Then she spies on Amber some.
Mom and Izzy go on a walk and there's
a lot of bones around, for some
reason stripped completely clean.
Nobody knows anything about
how these bones got here, but
Izzy thinks it's beautiful.
And Mom says it's not right or wrong,
it's just the nature of the thing.
At which point Izzy asks the
question of what is their nature?
Mom says it's dark but you can
learn how to starve that nature out.
They're called hellbenders because
they're powerful and therefore hated.
Uh, they were said to have turned
away from heaven and bent toward hell.
She is still lying to Izzy about
various things, saying she learned
everything she knows from her mom.
But Izzy has already
figured out that's not true.
It's been consulting her.
Weird book.
They're having a learning session when,
uh, an officer shows up he thinks that
there's a rabid mountain lion who's been
responsible for a few disappearances.
including a man dying and another
man disappearing wants to know
if they've seen any carcasses.
They say they haven't, but uh, Izzy
suggests that maybe it's a hellbender,
you know, it's like a witch or a demon
or something, Mom doesn't like that
too much, but the officer's like,
ha, you kids and your imagination.
Emily: The mom's reaction
to that, just being like,
Jeremy: yeah
Ben: This fucking park ranger who's teeth
are so white and who won't stop smiling.
He's so smiley, this park ranger.
Emily: he made it right.
Jeremy: yeah,
Ben: he survived.
Emily: okay, that's
Ben: not, they did not attack.
Bye.
Casey: they didn't attack him, but like,
listen, I don't think anybody survives.
I just don't.
Ben: I mean, on a long enough ti in
a long enough timeline, none of us.
Emily: Yeah.
Casey: No, no, no.
We're all, we're all doomed.
But,
Ben: I mean, Izzy probably just
murders the whole town by the end.
Casey: I feel like that's what happens.
Emily: I mean, she needs bass strings.
Who's going to sell her, who's
going to provide the bass strings
Casey: Well, I mean Kat was used for
strings at some point so maybe she's
just gonna like demon DIY her own.
Jeremy: Demon DIY is a show I would watch.
Casey: Me too.
Ben: only need to murder your way
through one guitar center if you only
need to keep one bass restrained.
Like, I feel like
Emily: long as they're well stocked.
Ben: I feel like one well
stocked guitar center should
keep you going for a good while.
Emily: It depends on how you play.
Let me just say that.
Jeremy: Yeah so mom mom finds a dead
wolf that's been partially consumed.
She decides that she's going to spy
on Izzy some, but it doesn't work.
And then mom is like, you know what,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep teaching
her things and tries to feed her
a worm and Izzy just wants more.
There's a scene of them
playing with cars and, uh.
The mom says, I love you
so much I could eat you up.
If you break my heart, I'll devour
you, which is a quite a line.
Casey: That's not how
you tuck your kids in?
Jeremy: no, it's not.
I haven't started saying that yet.
Emily: Way to bury the lead, mom.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Casey: if he doesn't hear it from me he's
gonna hear it from somebody else from
Emily: Yeah.
Mom sure was on top of that.
Like when she was like, Oh, she's
going to be pissed off about the lying.
Okay.
I really need to come clean or
else this is going to be like
a lifetime movie of some sort.
And instead of a death time,
Jeremy: Yeah, mom didn't come
clean enough fast enough.
Um, mom does decide to share
her secret stash of maggots.
The great death eaters.
So they go wrestle in the
snow and do some magic.
And throw a blood on each other's faces.
It's a fun scene.
Ben: There's I feel like
Emily: night.
Ben: I feel like Pretty much the entire
act 2 of this movie, where most movies
would have like, a plot happen, this
movie was just like, we came up with
Hellbenders, we're so excited about
this new creature we came up with,
and we're gonna spend half an hour
explaining all the rules of it, and
how it works, cause it's awesome.
It's like a witch, but also a demon.
And they reproduce like, and
they reproduce like Wonder Woman.
It's great.
Emily: Does Wonder Woman eat her mom?
Jeremy: I don't think
Ben: Oh, I guess that is how that works.
Casey: Yeah.
Ben: I guess I was more just
focusing on on just an all women
Jeremy: They don't
Casey: the asexual
Ben: Yeah, yeah.
I guess I wasn't really factoring
in the part where you got a
Sith Lord rule of two and up.
Emily: Yeah,
Casey: also, like, I'm really
into their girl dinner.
I think it's great.
I wish that that meme had been around
then because this is probably like
the prototype for girl dinner movie.
Emily: for real.
Jeremy: yeah.
Yeah, we, we find out that, uh,
Grandma was a monster who ate half of a
village, including friends and children.
And was so upset about all that
that she sewed her own mouth shut.
We find out that Grandma, like all
Hallbenders, died the same way they repeat
this thing that comes on throughout spring
eats summer, fall eats, or, summer eats
spring, fall eats summer, and so on.
We find out that Mom is 147, When I
saw what she gets, she says that's up
to Izzy Izzy decides to go, uh, track
down Amber in town so she can finally
give her back her swimsuit, presumably
a year later and, uh, this is where Izzy
finally is like, hey, did you hear about
that guy who chases off of his pool?
Apparently he was mauled by a wild animal
so Izzy has been at this Killing people
for, since the beginning it would seem.
Um,
Ben: park ranger would
have mentioned that.
Jeremy: well the park ranger said,
Somebody was mauled by a wild
animal and somebody disappeared.
Ben: Also,
Casey: Yeah, he mentioned it.
Ben: to go back to the mother
revealing her own mother's death.
And I feel like if we hadn't seen
that death, and we were just being
told the story, this whole, summer
eats spring, fall eats summer, like,
would feel like this poignant message
that gets it across, like this passing
of the generations and the seasons.
But we saw the death, and that,
while poignant, doesn't explain
what exactly made her combust
and then shoot into outer space.
I still kinda need an explanation
on how the fuck that happened.
Emily: It's magic.
You can't kill a hellbender
unless you eat them.
So she, uh, assumedly, she came
back down again, and then they
had to eat her in order to, like,
Casey: It's like when you
flip a pancake into the air.
Emily: yeah.
Yeah, she was cooked.
At least she was cooked,
Ben: What in the yellow
jackets are we talking about?
Emily: I know, right?
If
Jeremy: Okay,
Emily: com.
I
Jeremy: so, uh, we're almost
to the Grand climax here.
Uh, she
Ben: I just need to bring that up.
Jeremy: She tries to give
Amber back her stuff.
Uh, and Amber throws it back at her
and tells her to back the fuck off
because Amber is, is not cool with the
amount of stalking that has gone on.
Then we get another hard cut and
mom is looking for Izzy and the
key to her book room is missing
when she puts her hand on the door.
It doesn't do the thing.
Uh, and so is the book.
Mom finds the book in Izzy's room,
uh, and when she touches it, not only
does it show her, uh, what Izzy did
to the man it connects her to Izzy who
recites to her a metal ass poem about
a wolf that decided to be a sheep and
broke its teeth and raised its daughter
to be a sheep, but then the daughter
turned into a wolf and ate the sheep.
Yeah, that's pretty metal.
Izzy introduces her to Amber in this
little vision who she is in the middle
of eating the upper half of Amber.
The bottom half is already gone.
Mom hears Amber crying somewhere in the
house and goes down into the basement she
opens a chest to find a meaty gooey cave
inside, uh, and she decides she's gonna
go in and check that out with her lamp.
She finds what's left of Amber down
there, who's crying in the dark.
She also finds Izzy down there, and
Izzy tells her this is her happy place.
That's where she's at.
Izzy pleads to Mom to actually show
her the Hellbender inside of her.
Show her her true face.
She does get a little, uh,
wild, crazy eyeless face.
And Izzy's like, yes, thank you.
But Izzy knows how Hellbenders die.
And mom says she's not afraid of Izzy.
Izzy says she will be.
Izzy's face is much more horrifying.
She crushes Amber's skull with magic as
a demonstration of what she's capable of.
Then she tells mom she's not going
to eat her because she loves her,
and she's not ready to have a
little halbinder of her own yet.
She is going to town, though.
Does mom need anything?
Mom says she needs base strings,
and Izzy flies off in full...
monster form, presumably to
go get bass strings and also
probably eat and kill everybody.
The end.
Emily: just think that she ate
a few people, but not everyone.
Like, the artist that
made that cool ass crown.
Like, I think she left
her alive, maybe, maybe,
Ben: Because, I mean, look, anyone who
can still create badass metal outfits can
still live in the new Izzy world order.
Emily: yeah, the Izzytopia,
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.
Casey, I know you said you were
excited to talk about this movie.
What are your, uh, sort of
initial feelings on this one?
Casey: Oh my God.
Okay, so I am currently writing three
unannounced books that are pregnancy
horror because I apparently have a
lot of shit to work through from that.
So this topic has never been off my mind
since I started my folk horror movie.
The thing that, I think about
a lot as a human, and I think
about a lot in horror is.
The way that these little horrors were
exposed to in life, if you amplify them,
they become something really meaningful.
They become something that, that lingers.
And the first time I watched
Hellbender, because I've watched
it quite a few times, is...
And it actually happened
with us joking around.
A weird thing happens when you have kids
is that people start like food shaming
your kids and people start talking to
you a lot, like unsolicited, about the
choices you're making to raise your kids.
when I first watched it, I was like, God,
I wish my kid would eat like pine cones
or like anything I put on his plate.
He'd never eat a worm.
But
Ben: What if you double dog dared him to
Casey: No.
Oh, he's so above that.
Are you kidding?
He would just like look me
up and down and say like, you
need to find something to do.
Emily: yes,
Ben: Damn, that's devastating.
Casey: Oh my god.
Daily basis.
He rips my guts out.
But so where the thing that has lingered
with me from, from this movie is.
What am I feeding my kids in every sense?
In sense of exposing them to things
and in the sense of, like, protecting
them from things, like, what pop
culture stuff am I feeding them?
What...
Am I protecting them from?
And at some point, how do those
outside influences become a
parental figure of their own?
And, to me, that is, like, honestly one
of the scariest things of this movie,
is being an adult and knowing better,
and knowing exactly the shit your kid's
gonna go through, and you have to watch
them go through it anyway, and they are
going to respect everything more than
you, even though you were once them.
Emily: yeah, totally, totally, and,
waiting for that other shoe to drop
of, like, whatever it is, whether
it's a, it's leaving the nest or
the rejection of whatever, yeah.
When they're trying to set out
their own identity and kind
of strike back a little bit.
You know, and not all kids
have the same method of that.
Now, I'm not a parent.
I'm just going to say that, but I have
taught a lot of kids and, seeing them
progress from 8 years old to 15 years old.
Casey: Being a caretaker is just
as hard and is the same shit.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, it's 1 of the reasons
that I like teaching is that I can.
I still can apply, like, parental
knowledge and stuff like that, but I
don't have to take them home and clean
their asses but also, much respect to
anybody who takes them home and cleans
their asses, though, like, holy shit.
Casey: Same, I don't do that.
Emily: I mean,
Ben: I mean, well, I'm not
a parent or a caretaker.
I just feel confident enough
to speak about matters I have
no experience or knowledge in.
Emily: I mean, we all have to at
some point, for real, but, like,
Ben: We talk a lot about what
we do if attacked by vampires
on this podcast, and yet
Emily: I think we're
Ben: qualifications are pretty low.
Casey: Well, pregnancy is
being attacked by a vampire.
Like, caretaking a kid is
being attacked by a vampire.
You have this thing that you love
and that is magical and mystical and
changed your body and changed your life.
Even if you're not the biological
parent, you have this entity that has
entered your life, has changed everything
about you, and feeds off of you.
Feeds off of like, your
energy and your time.
And your experience and your patience I
feel like anybody who has been around a
child for even like 45 minutes probably
is wildly elevated in their abilities
to fend off an actual vampire attack,
Emily: That's true.
And not just because of the shit
of the kids, but also because
you're, caretaking instincts.
But Jeremy,
Jeremy: I, I feel like fighting off a
vampire would be much easier because
I'm not worried about hurting the
vampire, like, you know, that's,
that's the thing with kids is, is
figuring out how to navigate all these
Ben: You say you're not
Jeremy: actually hurting them.
Ben: You say you're not worried about
hurting the vampire, but then next thing
you know, you find it yourself and let,
and like, uh, let the right one in.
And now you got, like, Chloe Grace Moretz,
like, vampire, being all adorable and
Emily: Oh god.
That's like the worst
case scenario is vampire.
It's like the meme, you know,
what's worse than a vampire?
A child vampire.
Jeremy: yeah, but I, this,
Ben: Can you kill child
Chloe Grace Moretz?
Because I fucking can't.
Emily: I mean, I'd rather not.
Jeremy: Can explode when being attacked
by cats, I already do that, so, yeah this
one really like hit me both in like the
parent side and in the sort of monster
movie side, because I, I admire a movie
that goes for it, because I feel like
there's a lot of like, there's a lot of
crafts and things like that, that they're
like, walk up to that line and then like,
no, I'm going to be the good one and I'm
going to pull back and like, This is a
story about the good one who has then
raised a kid who is full on, who is going
full blown into being a monster again.
And like I'm, I'm all for like
teen girl monsters at this point.
Like that's an interesting and fun story.
And I think a lot of horror and other
types of stuff are, are too worried
about pulling back and, you know.
Yeah.
Letting the, you know, characters
be redeemed and letting them
choose not to do bad stuff.
And you know, I think the horror
of having kids is who knows
what they're going to choose.
You can try and influence
them all you like.
And you know, in fact, in the
mother's case in this, it, it ends
up having the opposite effect.
Like she doesn't let her out.
She doesn't expose her to anything.
So she has nothing to do,
but like while away the time
learning magic and eating people.
Casey: but doesn't have the opposite
effect because her mom's alive at the end.
So, there
Ben: have a great relationship,
like, they're bonding over the magic,
Casey: yes, they are kissing and
hugging after throwing blood on
each other, like the, it's almost
like a cycle was broken, right?
Like, Mother took this hit and did
this thing where she had to probably
think every single day, my kid's
going to hate me, my kid's going to
hate me, my kid's going to hate me.
And then in the end, like, there
actually is a payoff because
her daughter recognizes, like, I
actually don't want to kill you.
And maybe I'll just go into town a little
bit more and you can stay home, but I'll
get you bass strings and you're alive.
Ben: like, there's, to the point where,
while there's these characters exploring
and going through these these changes,
and their relationship, and these, just,
again, I really like these scenes of
bonding, like, I was not expecting a
training montage in my folk horror movie
and it is all these, like, wonderful
scenes of bonding, but you do end up with
a situation where it's like, really, up
until the last ten minutes, I was just
thinking, watching the movie, thinking,
it's like, a movie without conflict.
Interesting.
And then it's like, literally, it's
Jeremy: I don't know about
Ben: not until, like, ten minutes,
the last ten minutes, that there's
conflict between Izzy and the mother.
Emily: Yeah, there's a lot.
Right.
There's a,
Ben: it's not a gradual,
it's not a gradual burn,
Emily: there's a lot going on there.
And Casey, I really think
it's really interesting.
You bring up pregnancy horror
because pregnancy horror is something
that we see a lot as a trope.
And when it's criticized a lot of the
time, it's coming from men, right?
Or like male writers who are sort of
all they have to really say about it is.
Isn't that fucked up?
Casey: Wouldn't it be weird if?
Emily: yeah, wouldn't it be weird
if, like, you could have, like,
she had a million babies and they
all, like, came out of her body in
different ways, David Cronenberg?
And, like,
Ben: Alex Garland.
Emily: Yeah , there is a sort of a horror
to the death and rebirth situation, but
I feel like there is a little bit more
of an acceptance there where there's a
lot of movies also about parents denying
their kids or running from their kids
or, you know, all these other things.
Izzy's mom really tries to embrace Izzy.
And also let her know what she is and
what she can do, but what holds her, she
does hold back because of her own fear.
But she, she tries her best to own
up to it and, there's no right way.
There's no right way to parent a kid.
And I think that I really do
like that this movie ends with
them still kind of in conflict.
But less of a, it's not an epic conflict.
It is a very everyday family conflict.
Casey: Totally.
Emily: You know, we don't have
this horror of the child consuming
the mother, happening, as Ben said
earlier, long enough timeline, right?
We all are devoured, essentially, You
can easily say that, like, you know,
our time is devoured by children and
our time is, or we are devoured by the
next generation as we age, you know,
and they grow stronger or whatever.
That's a really metal, like,
reductive way of talking about it.
But I,
Jeremy: Also, that's the
way it's supposed to be.
Ben: I'm gonna
Jeremy: when it goes the other
direction that it's a problem.
Ben: I'm gonna be eaten by bald
eagles, the most patriotic way to go.
Emily: I mean, but that's another thing
is that, like, you have a lot of these
movies where they're depicting witches.
And a lot of what it is to be a witch
is sort of be in that cycle and be,
and being accepting of that cycle.
And I'm not talking about
witchcraft, like, uh,
Casey: mother crone, like, we understand
the cycles of birth and re death through
going through them and seeing them play
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it's less of a, it's not like
strictly Wicca or strictly pagan,
whatever, but it is part of that kind
of spiritual being part of the power.
And that is being accepting of the
fact that, you're going to be dust.
You're going to be bones.
You're not shying away from that.
But, there's always going to be
a conflict as to whether or not.
Yeah.
You really are ready for it.
Casey: And I think, like, oh, sorry,
you know what, sorry, go ahead, Ben.
Ben: oh well, part of what I just
enjoyed was that it wasn't just straight
up like, witches, that there did
seem to be this commitment to like,
no, we came up with a new creature.
Concept and we are gonna like and
we're really proud of it and we
thought through like because there
is a sense It's like these aren't
humans who chose a different way The
this is a different species of being
Emily: Yeah, and that brings me
to my one complaint about this
movie is the title hellbender Do
we all know what a hellbender is?
Jeremy: Lizard.
Ben: salamander, right?
Emily: Yeah, so when I first
watched this movie, I'm like, when
are we gonna get the salamander?
There's no salama like they don't
even talk about it in this movie now
Ben: I wasn't the explanation
to get to like and that's
why we're called hellbenders.
I'm like That was a
long walk to get there.
You came up with the title and
the name first, and then worked
backwards to find an explanation.
Emily: like I think it would have
been cool if they were like and we are
salamanders because we walk into the
Jeremy: lizard people!
Ben: like, we're evolved from Sal
Remember the Super Mario Brothers movie?
You know, the one from the 90s?
Yeah, like that!
Jeremy: I do appreciate
Ben: Dennis Hopper!
Jeremy: This is an instance where we
have powerful women, we have witchcraft,
we have magic, and it doesn't have
to boil down to having sex with
Satan at some point in the story.
Because, uh, I just, I get tired of
that in, like, witch horror, of like,
Oh, yes, and, I mean, we talked about
that in the Vivitch, the, like, point
where it's just like, And now time for
sexy man Satan to give you your powers.
It's like, ugh, alright,
Ben: was a very sexy man saying though.
Casey: and is he really a man?
I mean, he's in a man's body because
that's what she could perceive,
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Yeah.
Casey: before that.
Ben: Again, while
Jeremy: I'm male goat, still.
Ben: Sith Lord rule of two, like,
you have, you can only give birth to
the next generation once you've, I
guess this is a grandma less society.
No grandmas in this world, in this
Emily: have the
Casey: So, one of the things that I
really, really responded to, and I'm
not, I swear to God I'm not promoting
my own work when I say this, but,
Ben: No, please, promote your work.
We are, we are openly encouraging you to
promote your work as often as you possibly
can, like, drop it into conversation.
Casey: so, I write Buffy the Last
Vampire Slayer, which is an alternate
universe where Buffy is in her 50s to
60s and is dealing with what it means.
To be a woman of that age and also a
slayer and a large part of what I put
into this was my experiences becoming
a parent and then turning 40 and
literally becoming invisible to everyone.
And one of the things that really
resonated with me about this movie was
this idea of the mom rejecting that.
So you say like, there's
no grandmas in this.
We don't see old women in it.
The oldest woman that we see in it
is mother, and I feel like part of
what she was trying to break was
this sort of like baked in shorthand
in horror for, and we see it all
over A24, old is terrifying, right?
Old, nothing is creepier than an old body.
And while that's sometimes true,
there's also something about it that's
like, that's actually kind of, yeah,
The most reassuring thing to see
because that's somebody who survived.
And, uh, the mother has like, the
daughter has this position and the mother
has this position is like, should I,
as a woman accept future invisibility?
Like, should I be
prepared to hide my power?
Am I teaching my daughter
to hide her power?
Because that's, what's going to
keep her safe and keep her around.
And maybe we can defy you
know, this sort of like.
Sith, as Ben says, like the Sith logic
of the, you know, the young eats the old.
And to me, that's like one of the most
powerful things in this movie is undoing
that fear of there can only be like
one relevant woman on the screen at any
given time or in life at any given time.
And, uh, is it worth the mom's sacrifice
and what she did for all those years to
have a relationship with her daughter
that's so strong that we can break,
like, this ultimate piece of patriarchy
that says that when anything in a
woman's body of a certain age is no
longer valuable or interesting or.
Something that we care about
and we end the movie saying that
like, maybe that's gonna be true.
Emily: Yeah.
And in this case, it's not really like
the patriarchy isn't, it's the reason for
all this is not blamed on specifically the
patriarchy, but it is a patriarchal idea.
Casey: Sure.
Well, they're confronting for sure, but
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Casey: even need them.
They have babies all on their own.
They're fine.
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
So they have their own system.
So, you know, the beginning of the movie,
you see this sort of And what we assume
is that none of them made it or they're
just Gone or whatever because they got
eaten by their own babies or whatever.
Like, I've, I'm not sure exactly
what happened to all those people.
But it is pretty clear that
whatever the mom is doing is not
really accepted by the coven is
definitely like a schism from that.
And also, like, maybe
they're the last ones.
And so, either way, I mean, they're
isolated and I you know, I don't think
the movie needs to explain more of that.
Um,
Ben: the rest turned into salamanders.
Emily: yeah, maybe the rest
turned into salamanders.
Can I just, I'm really sorry, but
I just have to say salamanders as
of a sub, like a, not a subspecies,
but as a class or whatever.
Amphibious lizards, coolest names
I've ever heard of for animals, like
salamander, newt, axolotl, mud siren.
Ulm?
Casey: Tyrant is actually my gender.
Emily: Exactly.
Like, come on.
Like, Hellbender is my, I want
Hellbender to be my gender.
I'm still kind of somewhere in Ulm.
but it's a, it's a journey.
It's a transition
Ben: My gender is a snapping turtle.
Casey: I don't wanna...
Jeremy, I, you did the amazing recap.
I don't know if, if this is like stealing
thunder, but did you have any plans
to talk about what what like Toby's,
Inspiration was for making this movie.
Jeremy: No I mean, I've, I've read some
of it, but I hadn't really played them.
Casey: Okay, I didn't want to like steal
anybody's thunder by mentioning it.
Ben: Give us, yeah, give,
no, give us the deets.
Hell yeah.
Casey: so I thought it
was really interesting.
So she found out, I think she was
50 when she found out that she
was conceived by a sperm donor.
And she found out that her Like, the
person who raised her was not her
biological father, and that the person
who was the sperm donor was actually
still alive and had more children, and she
got to meet him and meet those siblings
as an adult, and she had this moment of
seeing, like, all of these personality
traits and things in her half siblings
that were so aligned with who she is, and
she has a brother from, Her biological
mom and the, the dad and her dad who
raised her and she was like, realizing,
like, I have more in common with these
strangers than I do with my own brother.
And it was like, this seed of
this idea that stuck with her
of nature versus nurture playing
out like that, like, of this.
creature being removed from its
biological parentage to be raised
differently and when we check in.
Are they alike?
Are they different?
And I just, like, I didn't know that
the first time I watched it, and
then the second time I watched it
knowing it, it was like, holy shit,
like, this is incredibly personal and
you can feel it, even though I think
Ben: Oh yeah.
Casey: of story is buried, it's really
beautiful and interesting to think about
it, especially since the movie is with
her kids and her husband and like, just
this idea of recreating and regenerating
family and what that looks like.
Sorry,
Emily: Totally.
Casey: I feel like I just
killed the conversation.
Emily: no, no, no, don't,
don't worry about that.
Cause we, we do take
pauses where we're like,
Ben: taking in new info.
I mean, that's very interesting context.
It just adds more background to it.
I mean, just, it's a full look.
It's Folk Horror.
A lot of it is people just
standing around feeling stuff.
So sometimes the podcast about Folk
Horror is just gonna be us sitting
around thinking and feeling about stuff.
Emily: mean, I love the, the
atmosphere of this movie.
Like, this movie has a lot of the
atmosphere that other movies have
that are not as cool as this movie
is in terms of the, what it's saying,
how it's made, all that kind of
stuff, because a lot of this movie
Ben: It's no Underworld.
We don't have that sleek,
all style, no substance.
Emily: yeah, no, I mean, there's, there's
Ben: One day we'll do Underworld.
One day.
Emily: Is that your
recommendation for this one?
Ben: No,
Jeremy: not recommend you do underworld.
Emily: But the,
Ben: that's like being like,
did you like Schindler's List?
Check out U.
A.
Poe's Blood Reign movie.
Emily: sorry, I just like my spirit
tried to leave my body just then.
Like it was like in there
and it was like, let's go.
And I'm like, I'm not ready.
I know you, I know they
said you able, but anyway.
Yeah, no, this movie has a lot of the
atmosphere that slower movies do, that
more kind of psychedelic movies do,
and yeah, this movie isn't, like, a
quick movie, it's definitely in that
A24 range of, like, look at the craft.
And there is a, a sort of
more subtle story here.
Although I think it's, it's more subtle
than a lot of the A24 stuff, but it's
because it's a, it's a character study.
And it is mostly about
just this relationship.
And that isn't like, that does not
end in everybody dying and, easy
going into the woods to, like,
live deliciously or whatever and.
I'm into it.
I think that that's a really
cool is really cool decision.
And it's what I wanted from the movie
hereditary and didn't get like, when
I saw the, the poster for hereditary,
that was like, the mom and the daughter,
I was hoping that that was going to
be like, there's a witch and she has
a daughter and the daughter's cool.
And they, like, have, they
do what she thinks together.
Ben: Not quite, not quite,
not quite from Hereditary.
Emily: not.
Casey: They do play in a treehouse
together, which is really sweet.
Jeremy: they play in a treehouse
with lots of naked guys.
It's real,
Emily: lot, there is a treehouse,
there is playing in it.
I don't think I ever saw the daughter and
the mom in a treehouse at the same time.
Casey: They sure were.
It's just, you might not have
recognized the mom because her
head was missing at that point.
Emily: Oh, that's right.
That's right.
That's
Jeremy: and the daughter
was inside the sun,
Emily: And it, well, and her
head was on the pieman thing.
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily: Yeah.
Might be.
Ben: fucking Hereditary.
Casey: play.
It's parallel play.
It's, it's
Emily: Right, right, right.
Casey: developmentally important.
Jeremy: So I gotta ask, I mean, I
talked about it a little bit during
the, uh, during the recap, but how did
you guys feel about the music in this?
Ben: Oh, it fucking ruled.
Emily: loved it, uh,
Ben: like, I won like a CD.
No, all of the songs fucking ruled.
And how amazing were their looks?
Like, their
Casey: So good.
Ben: point
Casey: Their corpse paint
was so good, all of it.
Emily: the,
Jeremy: want this music on a
cassette tape, actually, like,
Not a, not a CD, not a mp3,
Casey: the liner notes need to be,
need to be handwritten in eyeliner.
Jeremy: Yeah, a
Emily: or blood.
I'll accept blood.
Jeremy: little bit of
Casey: I would accept menstrual blood.
Emily: any kind of blood for me.
It doesn't matter where it comes from.
As long as it's been dried for a while.
Um,
Jeremy: Does it really not matter
where it comes from, Emily?
Emily: no, it doesn't.
After it's been dry for a while,
Jeremy: I mean, if it's the blood of
children, you're all right with that?
Like, that's,
Emily: I
Ben: look, Chris Evans said
babies taste best, who am I
to argue with Captain America?
Emily: okay.
Ben: That's a Snowpiercer reference
for any of y'all listening and
wondering what the fuck I'm talking
Emily: Oh, yeah.
I was like, I don't remember
the captain saying that.
Ben: That was
Jeremy: He turned that chair
around, sat down, and he was like,
you know, kids babies taste best.
You know,
Casey: It's a deleted scene.
Emily: Oh, yeah.
Ben: he said babies taste best and
then Mjolnir flew into his hand.
Jeremy: it's great human veal.
Um,
Ben: Phwoosh!
I am worthy.
Emily: bitch, like, we had a
discussion on our Hocus Pocus episode
about the, uh, ethics of turning
a baby into jam in order to fly.
Jeremy: sure
Ben: Oh, Bette Midler, don't give
no fucks about the morality of that.
She's grounding up that baby
jam and putting it on her toast.
Emily: I mean, like, there was
something to the mom in this
Ben: Also, her character in
the movie would do that too.
Emily: Yeah, no, like, she was, I
think she actually said, like, she
likes babies on toast or whatever.
I don't know.
But the mom in this movie
did say, like, you know, we
don't have to do this anymore.
Like, we don't have to do
things like this anymore.
Like, we don't have to fly.
We've got airplanes.
Like, we don't have to use our, our
seeing stones and our seeing spells
because we've got cell phones.
You
Ben: Oh!
Because she wanted to
know, oh, right, okay.
That makes sense, the last shot,
where she fucking flies and then
turns into a bad face like she's
goddamn Jared Leto Morbius.
Smash
Emily: Don't say that about
Jeremy: compare these two movies,
Casey: No, those.
Emily: her.
Casey: No.
No,
Ben: I, I wasn't, I wasn't, The literal,
like, last shot of the movie I was not
prepared for, like, That got just, like,
Jeremy: Just because she said
it was morbid time doesn't mean
that it's like Morbius, alright?
Casey: Listen, she got,
Ben: down and the face transforms,
I kinda lost it a little bit.
I'm sorry, that's just, that's on me.
Casey: she got her demon driver's license.
That's what she's gonna go do.
She, that is her hell given right.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: I was like,
Jeremy: you go to town, go on with bat
Ben: I'm going to town, do you want
anything, just like, basically I'm
like, oh, I'll be back, and then like,
Fatal, I'm like, yeah, great ending,
and then just, IT'S MORBID TIME, NOW
SMASH THE CREDITS, I'm like, WOAH,
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: damn, movie, wasn't,
Emily: It did end with a bang.
That is true.
I mean, I'm really stretching here, but
there is something about, like, living in
the country and being isolated and, like,
rejecting, society and, that's kind of a
double edged sword in terms of messaging,
I don't think this movie is really talking
about that because, like, You see how
that's a double edged sword and it's not
really the point because this is, that's
why one thing I really like about this
being such a limited cast because we
don't see as much of like, oh, she, it's
so good on the other side or whatever.
It's not about like, whether society
is better or whether she's better or
whatever, there is a middle ground here.
Ben: that is where, that they are a
literal different species, kinda tripped
me up a bit, because again, like,
And it does make for like kind of the
effective twist, like you go into this
movie going like, Ooh, this level of
isolation she's keeping her daughter
in is clearly toxic and so unhealthy
because it would be for any human.
But then you get further and it's
like, Oh, but she's not human.
And the mom says like, well,
we don't need human friends.
We've always never had human friends.
And it's like, Oh, well, I don't know.
Maybe she's right.
Maybe they're just not
as social creatures.
I don't
Jeremy: she'd be less inclined to
eat people if she knew some, though.
That's all I'm saying, like,
Ben: That's definitely one of the
Casey: But,
Emily: But, unless,
Casey: was made in 2019 during
lockdown, where all of us Thoughtful
people were keeping our kids at
home for a good reason, right?
That our kids wouldn't get and
potentially spread COVID to other people.
And that's kind of why mother's keeping.
So that she won't
Jeremy: eat people.
Casey: deal with all of this really scary
shit that a teenage person should, like,
kids should not have had to deal with
learning about pandemic and all of that.
Nobody needed to learn
that at a young age.
And that, that kind of resonated with
me where I was like, I think if I
had seen this before COVID, if this
had come out before COVID, I would
have been like, what good reason is
there to keep your kid cooped up?
Like they need to expose blah, blah, blah.
And then I'm like, no, no, no.
I too kept my kid cooped
up for their own good.
And I get it now.
Jeremy: Yeah, I do also wonder, like,
there's some, there's definitely some of
that in there, and I wonder if there's not
also some of this, like, intergenerational
play of, like, it's definitely a thing
that's, that's been the case between me
and my parents of, my parents are from
a, like, school of, you know, oh, things
are, getting better, don't, push, they're
sort of moderates, they're like, you
know, they, they do if there's something
that seems horribly wrong to them, they
will do something about it, but they're
not going to, like, actively investigate
and protest and, and punch Nazis.
And there's a certain amount of, like,
punch Nazis to this movie, right?
There's, like, oh no, we
should still be dangerous.
Like, we should still be fighting.
And, you know, we should be monsters.
You
Emily: That's a really good point,
too, because, I mean, there's, there's
so much going into that that dynamic.
But it is really about
Ben: to Jeremy eating half
of a North Carolina town.
Emily: go for it.
Jeremy: they're already deep fried.
So, you know,
Ben: Jeremy being like, I
don't know, I don't think that
grandma did anything wrong.
Emily: I think he'll be a
little bit more selective.
I trust Jeremy that way, but for
real though I think that there is a
definitely an element of like, you
don't have to play nice anymore.
And it's folded in there because
you also have the isolation, you
know, without the context of COVID.
But I think that context, you know, it's,
it's not literal, but it is implied.
But it is implied that she's very sick
and that is what she is told for most of
the time is that she has an autoimmune
disorder which, apparently doesn't
affect her if she's swimming in a pool
or walking through the woods or, doing
whatever, like, she's been eating pine
cones, but she has an autoimmune disorder.
I don't know how that works.
But I don't, I'm not a
Jeremy: how autoimmune disorders work
Emily: That's the problem.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Yeah, I think, I mean, going to
our, turning to our questions here,
I think it's safe to say that this
movie is pretty feminist, right?
Ben: Oh, 100%.
Emily: Absolutely.
Casey: I think it's feminist in a way that
is incredibly confrontational to feminism.
I totally understand why
it was made with the cast.
It was made, and this is
not a critique of that.
I do think that, like, a super relevant
feminist movie needs to be intersectional
and, uh, I think that, that shouldn't be
done, shouldn't be forced, it should be
something that's natural, be something
that, that's organic with the movie, and
that couldn't happen in this case because
of how it was made, But I do think that
it would be also interesting to see a
similar story like this told from, like,
the point of view of people of color.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: do think at the point that like
you, you start hypothesizing about, I
mean, and this goes for witchcraft and
then they sort of like monster things.
Once you start.
Adding in the, like, and also their black
percentage of it, like, there's a lot of
things that have to rearrange and change
then in ways that maybe this particular
group of, creators wouldn't necessarily
be ready for um, wouldn't, you know,
Casey: Or, like, even the right
people to tell that story.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.
Emily: yeah, and this is one of
those times that I do forgive a
lack of diversity, because again,
you know, yeah, like it's not,
that's not the point of the movie.
Casey: Yeah.
And, like, it wasn't like
they called Central Casting
and chose an all white cast.
It was
Jeremy: do have a black park ranger,
Emily: yeah, there's a black,
Jeremy: and he does survive.
So, at least as far as we know.
Ben: Until he gets morbed.
Jeremy: I'm sure he's fine.
She's going to town.
She's not going to bother the park ranger.
Emily: Obviously she seemed
like she's been on zoom.
She's seen YouTube because I could
tell by her mannerisms and her
vocabulary that she is hip with times.
You know, in a way, like she's not, she's
not like a Mormon cult in the middle
of the woods, kind of the bad ones.
Casey: Yeah.
She's not, like, stunted and doesn't know
what year it is or who the president is.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: yeah, obviously she's been
listening to some dope music because
you know, she's got got good taste.
She writes, she writes the music
and the lyrics for the stuff.
So, yeah, interesting
hypothetical in some ways.
Emily: In the
Jeremy: I don't feel like this movie that
really does a lot to deal with class.
It's sort of outside of class in a way.
And yeah, we did talk about, you know,
There is one black person in the cast and
they are a bit part, but also this is a
like movie made by a family during COVID.
Ben: like, this is not a ramshackle
cabin they're hiding out in.
This is a very nice house
Casey: It's a really nice house.
Emily: It is a nice house.
It's an old house, but it's a nice house.
There is a little bit of the class
with the fact that the local teens.
Or take advantage of this, like, weekend
lodge that this family has, the city
family, which, you know and I'll,
Ben: where does this take place?
Is this in the Ozarks?
Emily: I
Casey: No, it's in
upstate New York, right?
It's, right?
Emily: Still Hellbenders up there.
Hellbenders are native to the Ozarks too.
The actual, the lizard ones.
Ben: I just saw like, yep, shithead
teens cruising inside, like, just
breaking into someone's, like, nice
place they only go into on vacation.
I'm not seeing any ocean,
I'm seeing forest, so I'm
just going to assume Ozarks.
Jason Bateman's somewhere
around the corner.
Patrick
Emily: Oh, wait, Jason Bateman.
Sorry, I,
Jeremy: not Patrick Bateman.
Emily: Patrick Bateman.
Jeremy: that's a different movie.
Um,
Emily: a lot further towards the ocean.
Ben: Bateman goes to the Ozarks.
Feels like...
A direct to DVD sequel with an entirely
different cast that I wouldn't watch, but
I would really enjoy YouTube takedowns of.
Emily: It's called Hannibal.
Like, for real though?
Jeremy: now this as far as we were
talking about intersectionality and as
far as any sort of LGBTQIA plus stuff
there's, I mean, it's, it's minimal.
It's there.
I feel like there's definitely an
implication that, that Izzy is queer.
Um,
Casey: think it's minimal.
I think that flash line
shrunk in the basement?
I think we all know what that is.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: as she's eating her friend Amber.
Emily: In her gut, in her metagut slash
uterus that she created with magic.
Ben: And plus, I think there's just,
again, even if it isn't quite as feminist
as Wonder Woman's origin, there is
always something in that, like, this
is a family of women that reproduces
without men having any role whatsoever.
Emily: Yeah.
Casey: And I feel like it's safe to
say that to me, any meaningful horror
movie, any horror movie that like,
that resonates with you or that you
think about is inherently queer.
Any monster movie, any transformation
movie, all of that is so queer.
It's, it is just like, without teenage
girls and queer people, there would
be no horror and I think that like,
the degree of subtlety changes, but
to me, this felt very, very queer.
Emily: It's definitely coming from
a little bit more of a queer, I
mean, I don't know for sure how
queer the, creators are, but it's
definitely coming from that place
of an informed, someone who is,
familiar enough with the experience.
Which is, it's just more to say about
with horror movies that are definitely
about being other, but, there's a lot
of cishet dudes that made horror movies
that didn't realize like, oh, shit.
But this movie definitely
was embracing that.
And, I do like a movie that doesn't
go over the top with it, that doesn't
have to say like, okay, we're gonna
make these girls kiss or whatever.
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily: I mean, if that's
right for the movie, awesome.
You know, I'll, like, if it's
good for the story, great.
I'm glad that, this is, this was
not an overly sexual, or like,
barely even sexual movie because,
Casey: the point of it at
Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's,
it's, it's not all, it's not about
sex, it's about something entirely,
I mean, you could say it's, you
Ben: has never been, arguably
there's never been a least, a less
sexualized bikini scene in a movie.
Emily: yeah, I mean, they, it was
interesting what they did with the gaze,
like Izzy's gaze and that was definitely,
like, sexualizing in a way, but it was
never uncomfortable, like, yeah, it was,
Casey: it was like, age appropriate,
Emily: Yeah.
Casey: teenage girl checking
out another teenage girl.
Jeremy: and I mean, she is no more
interested in specifically, like, Amber's
body than she is in Amber's barrettes.
Like, she is very excited
about the barrettes.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: she's, she is obsessed with her.
And I feel like yeah I,
Ben: It's a
Jeremy: you're, you're really on
the point there of, like, It is
not a movie that really talks about
being queer or queerness, but it's
all sort of, it's baked in there.
Um,
Ben: really do feel for Izzy on a level
of like, growing up, teenaging, it's
already such a rush of hormones, like,
you already have to deal with that, like,
do I wanna be her, or do I wanna be with
her, but then Izzy has to tackle this
third option of, or do I wanna eat her,
Emily: I, that was always
Ben: that's a whole
Jeremy: is that a distinct third act?
Emily: I,
I thought
Casey: that's happening either way.
Emily: for her.
Absolutely.
Didn't y'all like, when you were
teenagers, didn't y'all ever want to like,
eat just, you just were so into somebody.
You just wanted to eat them.
Cool.
I'm glad we're all on board with this.
The.
Jeremy: this about Trent Reznor again?
Emily: Well, I got that.
If anything, I got that idea from him.
Like,
Casey: Yeah, he said it first.
Emily: he did say it first and
then I, that's when I was like,
Oh, there's a word for that.
Oh,
Jeremy: yeah, this also walks a very fine
line, especially seeing that the actresses
that play Izzy and Amber are sisters.
It's really like,
Emily: Oh yeah.
Jeremy: place to be
Ben: Fair.
Yeah, you know what, I, if that is the
case, then I'm very glad they didn't
make those, make that a romance then.
Good call, movie.
Emily: Yeah.
I mean, there are movies where you have
Ben: Don't Lannister your, don't do
a Lannister just for movie magic.
Emily: No, no, never do a
Lannister for movie magic.
Stop right now.
If you're thinking about it, stop.
You
Ben: Injo, don't do a Lannister
for any particular reason.
Emily: Just say no to
Jeremy: I, I think that's
what the Game of Thrones is...
Having sex with a relative, right?
Casey: Yeah, I mean,
Ben: Yeah.
Emily: uh, fire and ice or whatever the
fuck, fire, song of ice and fire shit.
Ben: It's enough that if I'm
a woman cousin of George R.
R.
Martin, I'm maybe keeping a wide
berth at the family reunion.
Casey: I, I feel like this is
probably not something anybody has
voiced before, but we've probably
all thought is that George R.
R.
Martin is really just V.
C.
Andrews with dragons.
Emily: mean, yeah, snap.
Ben: Snap, snap, snap, snap, snap to that.
Jeremy: You've made me out of focus.
I don't know.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeremy
went right out of focus with that.
Jeremy, before, like, the second
that you're, you're, like, right
before your camera comes on, like,
there's this subliminal flash
of, like, Mothman or something.
I don't know what's going on with that.
Casey: Maybe it's his
hellbender coming out.
Emily: Yeah, Jeremy, just don't
just watch out for the bridge.
Jeremy: Me and Richard
Gere will keep an eye out.
Um,
Emily: Richard here.
Jeremy: I always watch
out for Richard Gere.
I am always watching out for
Richard Gere, just in case.
Casey: my son is in a big art
phase, and this is gonna do the
podcast people listening, no, good.
But I'm about to show the other people.
I'm on Zoom with my son's
interpretation of Moth Man because
he's currently obsessed with him and
Emily: Oh my god, Rad!
Casey: he, that's below stop.
Let me just turn this fuzz off.
Okay, so below Moth Man is the.
Can you just stop?
Okay, is the broken neck or the,
the broken boned kitty, um, that
mothman is coming to help because
my kid's mothman is benevolent,
Ben: what a good mothman.
Emily: Oh.
Oh, yeah.
Casey: is a bridge.
that Mothman is flying over.
I get desperate for bedtime stories.
He,
Emily: Did you did he did you
tell him about the bridge?
Okay.
Casey: I told him about
the Silver Bridge disaster.
I didn't tell him about like
Indrid Cole or Richard Gere.
He's a little young for Richard
Gere, but he's not too young
for Point Pleasant Mothman,
Emily: Yeah, I think I'm too young
Ben: So it went way in a few
years before, uh, Pretty Woman.
Gotcha.
Casey: for sure.
Yeah, that's a bit much.
Like, it's kind of gross that
you even say that, honestly.
Jeremy: Hey, I know I was exposed
to Pretty Woman at that age,
so, let's think of all the...
My parents were so worried about showing
me anything with nudity, but they were
fine with, like, Pretty Woman and I
saw Alien 3 at an unusually young age.
I saw a lot, I've seen Dirty
Dancing several times by
the time I was like, five.
Ben: Was Richard Gere in Alien 3?
That's a very different Alien
Jeremy: if
Casey: no,
Jeremy: if only,
Emily: don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know if it would
have made it better.
I,
Ben: It would've made
Casey: It wouldn't have made it worse.
Ben: Yeah.
Jeremy: they cut him out of, of, he
was in one of the scenes they cut.
Ben: Oh no.
Emily: He was the alien came out
of him originally than the dog.
God.
Yeah, my folks were like watching Twin
Peaks and they're like, Hey, check it out.
I'm like,
Jeremy: My parents have
never watched Twin Peaks.
Still not about to.
Ben: My dad took his eye off the ball and
I ended up watching Mortal Kombat at age
5 and my parents just gave up after that.
Casey: was actually the end.
Yeah, you can't put that back in the
Ben: No, no, the genie
was out of the bottle.
Emily: can't put that spine back in the
Ben: You know, I'm, I'm, I'm five and
I'm watching like, men get frozen and
their torsos just explode in ice shards.
I'm like, yup, this fucking rules.
We're watching this movie every
six months for the rest of my life.
Emily: Like,
Casey: actually feels like kind of
a good first horror movie because
it's so goony and so improbable.
Emily: Yeah,
Casey: Yeah, like,
Emily: pretty
Casey: silly.
Emily: That's a movie for
kids, like fully, like that's a
Ben: Oh, I love, for
the record, I loved it.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: you know, I, talk about
frequently on here, I think how weird
it is that we don't make as much,
like, Spooky stuff for kids anymore.
There's no like spooky
Jim Henson stuff anymore.
That's you know, something at that
level that's coming out There's
very few like so much stuff.
That's supposed to be scary aimed for
kids is like below goosebumps level
Casey: Well, in America that's true.
But.
Emily: like,
Casey: I'm going to completely
mispronounce this name if,
does anybody here speak German?
Emily: a little bit.
Casey: Do you know about, what is his,
do name is Bernd Das Brot and it is
like this beloved German children's
cartoon about this, like, horrible piece
of bread that is clinically depressed.
I'm not making any of this up.
Emily: I, yes, yeah, I haven't heard
of, I, I just looked it up and yes.
Casey: yeah, so, it's been it's been
on for like years and years and years.
And the whole point of this
character is like, not demystifying
or normalizing depression.
Like, he's just a super
depressed piece of bread.
It's like an educational science
show that's also kind of horror.
Like, they explain black holes
and the heat death of the sun.
To like a, an audience
of five year olds and
Ben: Amazing.
Casey: one more quick thing that I will
send you all this link because if somebody
told me about this and didn't send me a
link, I'd be like, you are making this up.
There is this Indian
children's show called Dr.
Binox, and it is basically like
a sentient mustache with arms.
And I supervise my kid watching iPad.
Like I'm right there with him and
this one day he's watching and I hear
like this voice start talking about.
Exploding whale carcasses?
Did you get on adult YouTube?
Like what?
I look, no, this is animated.
Dr.
Binox explaining how we need to avoid
rotting whale carcasses that just wash
up on beaches because they'll explode.
It does a full animated
whale carcass explosion.
A full internal exploration of a
whale carcass explaining all of the
different bacterias that you encounter.
And it's like this PSA to warn kids,
whoever the kids in this audience
are, have a lot of unsupervised
access to whale carcasses because it's
like this PSA of don't climb them.
That's the whole point of it.
So there is great horror
being made for kids.
It's just not being made here.
Emily: I feel like kids are just
watching, YouTube and like creepypasta.
Like I have never, they just go on Roblox.
Like this, all the horror
they get is Roblox.
Casey: Roblox is terrifying.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah, I
Emily: from the start.
Ben: Them
Jeremy: my kids find the weirdest
thing on things on Netflix stuff
that I'm like What are you watching?
Like I don't know if anybody has
experience with bread barbershop the
Yeah, the, uh, I believe it's Korean.
Yeah, it's a French South Korean, uh,
children's animated television series
about a a bread who has a barbershop.
And it, it reminds me of, if you
watch Steven Universe, he watches a
show called Crying Breakfast Friends.
It's like first time I saw the show, I was
like, Is this Crying Breakfast Friends?
Is is it real?
Emily: I mean, like, honestly, when it
comes to children's entertainment, like,
Moomin, like the Moomin cartoon, and
how it's like, the first episode of that
cartoon from the 90s, like the 70s one
was just unhinged, but that was the 70s.
But the, the movement, the 90s
movement cartoon, I love it.
I love it to death.
I love it.
I'll watch it anytime, anyplace,
anywhere, but it comes with some really
upsetting, like, existential horror
where, you know, Moomin turns into a
weird little creature and then nobody
recognizes him and he's like freaking
out and only the like, the power of his
mother can remind him of who he truly is.
And
Jeremy: Bringing it back around to,
Casey: yeah.
I was just gonna say that's,
that's the original Hellbender.
Emily: yeah, yeah.
Jeremy: to it.
Emily: It's Moomin.
Casey: So when, go ahead, go, sorry.
Emily: I was just saying,
so my recommended,
recommendation is Moomin, again.
There's a number of
other things, but yeah,
Jeremy: I was, I was gonna say, I mean,
we're almost at recommendation time here.
Before we get to that do we recommend
that people watch this movie?
Uh, people go check out Hell Bender.
Ben: Definitely.
Jeremy: Yeah.
It's, it's still on shutter.
However it is you get to shutter, whether
it's through Shutter or through Amazon.
It's there, I mean.
Along with so many other great
horror movies like go check it out.
Emily: Like, malignant.
Oh, wait, no, that's not Shudder.
That's HBO.
Jeremy: no, it's Max
Emily: Oh, sorry.
Jeremy: It's not television.
It's not HBO.
It's Max.
Ben: The one where HBO is on.
Jeremy: Ah.
That said, uh, what else would
we recommend for people who, uh,
have enjoyed Hellbender or who,
uh, are looking for other, other
good horror stuff to check out?
Casey, did you have anything off the
top of your head or I'm gonna come back
Casey: Yes, I do.
So as we were talking, I was
thinking about, hearing all your
stories of like your early horror.
I had very permissive parents who did not
give a shit what I read or watched, but if
it was so scary that I had to come sleep
in their bed, That's when it became a
problem and I couldn't watch it anymore.
So, I watched a lot of
stuff I shouldn't have.
But I also watched stuff that was made
for me at my age, and those are two
of the things I'm going to recommend.
These are not exactly folk
horror, but I don't exactly
think that Hellbender is either.
Although it's flavored with folk horror.
I think that it does a lot of things
differently in some very smart ways.
But so let's flash back to the 80s
to some Disney live action movies.
The first one is called Watcher in
the Woods, and I'm sure everybody
on this podcast has heard of it,
but if you haven't, it stars Betty
Davis as a really terrifying.
Old lady in the woods.
It's set in the English countryside,
which is the perfect spot for folk horror.
And it involves things that you probably
never thought a Disney movie would
involve, like, like time and space
continuums and rituals in abandoned
churches and all kinds of things.
Um,
Emily: hole.
Casey: they did.
Emily: I, they, fucking went there.
That was, like, Disney
Adventures Event Horizon.
Casey: It's amazing, like that period
of Disney movies is just very weird.
Emily: Yeah.
Casey: This is not a recommendation,
but have any of y'all seen Thomasina?
Ben: I haven't.
Emily: I've seen John Cena.
Casey: you ever,
Jeremy: ba ba!
Casey: if you ever really
wanna fuck yourself up, go
watch the, go watch Thomasina.
You will not ever be okay again.
So.
Watcher in the Woods, and then the
second one is the Disney version of
Something Wicked This Way Comes, an
adaptation of the Ray Bradbury novel.
It has Jason Robars, who I'm
sure nobody remembers anymore,
but I'm terrifically old.
Another great sort of like...
familial, what does it mean to age and
what is my relationship with the rest
of the world like sort of vibe that I
think anybody who liked Hellbender would
probably not necessarily seek these movies
out as a recommendation, but to me they
feel like they live in the same world.
Emily,
Emily: I agree.
Totally.
Jeremy: Awesome.
Emily, what do you have?
Emily: Well, I, I said Moomin.
Um, I would say the, the Vich,
because it's sort of a good contrast,
like, it's a compare contrast thing.
there's a really weird movie that I
actually haven't seen and I would love
to recommend it just so people can seek
it out and find it and I can talk to them
about it because it's on my list and I'll
just go and go ahead and watch it now.
So,
Ben: Watch it and tell
Emily if it's good or
Emily: tell me if it's good.
It's called Black Moon
and it's really weird.
I think it's German.
Kind of Alice in Wonderland story
and it occurs in the woods and stuff.
I don't know if it's all like above board.
I don't know if it's like weird or awkward
or creepy, but, if you like weird shit
in the woods, and, there's a lot of weird
shit in the woods movies that I don't want
to recommend with this 1 some of which I
like, some of which I don't antichrist,
but the, the, the woodsyness of this
movie, I think definitely like, find some
good, or, oh, and watch Dark the German
series, if you like weird shit happening
in the woods, and like, legacy stories.
Casey: you should watch Black Moon.
It's so good.
Emily: You've seen it?
Okay, good.
Phew!
Casey: It's, it's really, really beautiful
and surreal and like, you would love it.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: is the 1975 film, Black
Casey: Yeah.
Jeremy: I have not
Casey: It's like a little bit more
fantasy than horror and there's
like a futuristic element, but
it totally good recommendation.
Emily: Thank you.
I'll have to go watch it now
that I've recommended it.
So,
Jeremy: Ben, what about yourself?
So
Ben: I'm gonna keep my recommendation
on the theme of mother daughter
stories and recommend everything
everywhere all at once.
Emily: oh, nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeremy: you know that we're a week out.
We're not all recommending
Barbie for everything anymore.
Um,
Emily: when we're watching men,
Ben: That's sure gonna be awkward
when it coming out, when the
episode comes out like three
months after Barbie hit theaters.
Emily: maybe it'll be
Ben: I hope, uh, maybe it'll be nostalgic
for listeners going like, Oh yeah, I
remember that week where we only gave
a fuck about Barbie and nothing else.
Jeremy: it's a hell of a double
feature, Barbie and men really.
Casey: Yeah, they, they have
a lot to say to each other.
Jeremy: yeah, that was a total accident
that I ended up watching Barbie in the
theater and then coming home and watching
men to talk about on the podcast.
And immediately afterwards was like,
I'm writing a paper about this.
These two things are
very closely connected.
Yeah, that was wild.
On the subject of pregnancy horror I
wanted to recommend, uh, one of the more
unusual and actually female penned one
of those, which is Prevenge which is
also on Shudder if last I checked which
is a, a movie about, uh, a woman who is
pregnant when her Husband dies under semi
mysterious circumstances on a climbing
trip where he's a you know, a coach and
everybody else makes it back but him.
And so her unborn child starts
directing her and seeking revenge
for the child's father's death.
Ben: 10, no notes.
Jeremy: yeah, the, the child is
driving her to, uh, murder people.
It's...
a weird combination like horror comedy
thing a percentage that you're you can't
even really guess until you've seen the
movie like what where the humor is coming
in and where the actual horror is but
yeah definitely definitely worth a watch
Casey: Can I make one more recommendation?
Emily: Please.
Casey: So I was, as you all were talking,
I was, like, thinking about the theme
of, like, withholding power from teenage
girls, and, uh, it's not necessarily
a horror movie, although it's scary,
but The Virgin Suicides is so similar
thematically to Hellbender, But if it
just went in a different direction because
of the relationship with the parents
and I think it's a really great 180 to
explore if you really like what's going
on in Hellbender and you like like a
juicy atmospheric beautiful movie with
really great Yeah, really great music,
really great teenage actors a different
narrative, but also like, claustrophobic
and beautiful in the same way the inside
of the house in Hellbender is, like,
layers and layers of girl bedroom.
Super, super good recommendation for it.
Emily: Yeah.
I haven't seen that in a really long
time and I'm going to have to watch
that again because I've, I've seen it.
I remember it very fondly.
Um,
Casey: the book, I totally suggest that.
I reread it every summer.
It just feels
Emily: Oh, yeah.
Casey: book.
It's great.
Jeremy: awesome on that note Casey,
can you let people know where they
can find you online and find out
more about projects you're working
on, stuff you have coming out?
Casey: I am most active on Instagram.
My handle is sharkfight,
shark underscore fight.
Um, or you can just
search for Casey Gilley.
I'm also on Blue Sky.
So as people are getting more
and more into that site I'm
on there just as my name.
Twitter is a corpse at this point.
I don't really update it much.
I have one if you want
to go poke in the ruins.
So I would say those are probably
the best places to find me.
I'm really bad at social media.
Emily: That's okay.
Because
Jeremy: media is bad at
social media right now too.
Emily: Yeah.
Casey: Like, I don't even have a website.
I should probably have a website.
Yeah, so that, that is
where you'll find me.
Badly promoting myself.
Jeremy: yeah and uh, Emily, where
can, uh, where can people find you?
Emily: I do have a website,
it's basically a card, Megamoth.
net goes to a lot of different things
that I do, but mainly to Instagram,
Mega underscore Moth, and I'm at
Megamoth on Blue Sky and I have
a Patreon, so Megamoth on there.
Once you're done subscribing to
Progressively Horrified, you can
come check out my Patreon too.
So, again, that's Megamoth, you
can, mostly it's the same thing.
Jeremy: Awesome.
And, uh, Ben, what about you?
Ben: Uh, yes, check me
out at BenKahnComics.
com.
Sign up for my newsletter
that I'll be launching soon.
Casey: Oh, you show off!
Ben: uh, various news and updates
because social media is on fire.
And I'll call it ProzenKahn.
Be very clever with it like that.
Emily: That's really good.
Casey: Really good!
Emily: That's really good.
Ben: And, like, yeah, on the social
media platforms, find me at Blue
Sky, at Ben Kahn Writes, at Twitter,
at Ben the Kahn and, what else?
Oh, yes, my novel, uh, Elle
Campbell Wins Their Weekend, is
out from Scholastic October 17th.
Emily: Wow.
Jeremy: Awesome.
As for me, you can still find me on
Twitter and Instagram at jrome58.
That's J R O M E 5 8.
I am on both Blue Sky and Tumblr, it's
just JeremyWhitley, jeremywhitley.
tumblr.
com and my website is jeremywhitley.
com, I'm slowly planning on actually
doing something to that to make it worth
being at, worth finding and you, uh,
if you haven't already, you can go, uh,
pre order the second volume of School
for Extraterrestrial Girls with me and
Jamie Noguchi, Uh, which is coming out
in November, or now you can pre order
The Cold Ever After, my queer Arthurian
noir story that, uh, I'm doing with
Titan with my artist Megan Wong which
is, is coming out in February, but
it's already up on Amazon and various
other book websites As of when this
is coming out, I think the first issue
of My Little Pony Classics Reimagined,
The Unicorn of Oz, should already be
out, so you can go read Pony Wizard
of Oz and have yourself a great time.
as for the podcast itself, uh, we're
on Patreon at Progressively horrified,
progressively horrified Transistor
fm and on Twitter at GUE Horror Pod.
We would love to hear from you.
Probably be setting up something on
Blue Sky and or Instagram sometime
soon, since Twitter is now 10.
And speaking of loving to hear
from you, we would love it if
you'd rate and review this podcast
wherever you're listening to it.
Giving us five stars helps new
listeners find the podcast.
And that, uh, is good for everybody.
Thanks again to Casey for joining us.
Casey, this was fantastic.
This is, like, I love this movie.
I'm so glad we got to
talk to you about it.
Casey: Thank you.
This was super fun.
I don't want to stop talking, but
that's, you know, because I kind
of live alone or live an isolated
life and I miss having friends.
Ben: Thank you so much for
coming on and talking about
Casey: Thank you for having me.
Jeremy: you're welcome
to come back anytime.
Ben: Mm hmm.
Jeremy: We're always here talking
about some scary movie or other, so.
Casey: We should podcast together for
the inevitable My Little Pony A24 film.
Emily: Hell yeah.
I thought that was Black Moon.
Jeremy: That
Emily: movie has a unicorn in it, you see.
Casey: yeah.
Jeremy: thanks, uh, as always
to Emily and Ben for being here.
And thanks to all of you for listening.
And until next time, stay horrified.