You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast

Robert Lewis is a well known speaker, author, and pastor that has spent his life casting a vision for biblical, authentic manhood. A vision for the kind of men God designed us to be.

Show Notes

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WELCOME

You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.

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SHOW NOTES

Creators and Guests

Host
Zachary Garza
Founder of Forerunner Mentoring & You Can Mentor // Father to the Fatherless // Author

What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?

You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.

We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.

Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.

Speaker 1:

You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.

Speaker 2:

Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Steven, and I'm here with a very special guest today, Robert Lewis. Robert, how are you?

Speaker 3:

I'm doing well. I'm having a great morning already, Steven, and it's good to be with you.

Speaker 2:

Hey. I'm really glad that you're drinking coffee alongside me. I just feel like that's, that's a very bonding experience for men to get together in the morning and drink a cup of Joe.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

My my, my my wife's grand grandfather, while I was asking for her hand in marriage, he said, on the trip he lived down in Beaumont, he said, well, if you can wake wake up at, 5:30 and have a cup of coffee with me, let let's have a conversation. And so I can't tell you how many alarm clocks I set to wake up for that meeting because because I knew I had to be there.

Speaker 3:

So exciting moment you couldn't

Speaker 2:

Well, Robert, I'm really excited to interview you today and talk about biblical masculinity, but, first off, I just want to share who you are with our listeners. Robert Lewis is a well known speaker, author, and pastor that has spent his life casting a vision for biblical authentic manhood, a vision for the kind of men God designed us to be. He wrote a book we've encouraged our entire staff to read called raising a modern day night. And if we were to link all of the content Robert has come out with over the years, our show notes would short circuit our podcast apps across the world. But we highly encourage you to look up his authentic manhood videos and his latest project, Better Man.

Speaker 2:

And so I want I want Robert to actually unpack what Better Man is about, because they just launched a new project this last week.

Speaker 3:

We certainly did. And, as I told you earlier, I'm thrilled that we finally got to a place where we could launch Better Man around the country. And, we we we're doing that in partnership with the the Barner Group, George Barner's organization, where we did a national survey of men across America, non Christian, Christian, young, old, to see where the modern man is and the challenges that he faced. And then we put all that research into a book that we'll be offering in 2 weeks, from now. And, your listeners, it'll be easy for them to get their hands on it.

Speaker 3:

Varna's gonna be doing a webinar on it. But it just gives all kinds of really timely insights into where men are and how best to connect with them, especially the younger generation. And I say that because Better Man was created, about a year and a half ago by me and some other men to specifically speak to the generation of millennials and gen xers that, have come up and who are trying to find their footing as men, especially out of so many broken homes. Half of America's broke has broken homes. So there's been some disconnect with dad, some of it tragically.

Speaker 3:

And even in some of the better homes where dad is there, he's lost some of his sense of calling as a mentor to his son. And so these men grow up in those kind of homes where dad is there, but they they leave home somewhat clueless about what it really means to be a man because dad didn't explain it to him to him. So we created Better Man as a way to encourage men of all stripes, but particularly younger men under 40, to join together with the company of older men and go through our Better Man, experience, which involves, relationships. It's very dependent on relationships with older men, bonding with younger men, and then going through this experience, and then instruction on the fundamentals of manhood. And, when it's over, we hope it's increased a much greater community of men.

Speaker 3:

At the same time, it's given men, which I think is missing today, Stephen, a language of manhood, basic manhood, basic terms, even a a real simple biblical definition of manhood that they can hang the rest of their life on that most men can't even say what a man is. So we define manhood in a way that's very, articulate, clear, simple, biblical, and you can build the rest of your life off that foundation. That's what better manhood is all about. And we've had great success in all of our pilots. I'm just thrilled that we get to launch this because I've seen young men come alive and, like your ministry, come alive in the company of older men who are taking interest in them.

Speaker 3:

So that's what Better Man is all about. Your listeners could go to betterman.com. All the information and even training is online to start a large group, a small group, or even a virtual group at this time with the virus. So all that's available as of today. And so it's fun to be with you, kinda launching together, so to speak.

Speaker 2:

I'm so glad. I'm so glad to have you on the podcast and to share that stuff. We highly encourage all of our listeners to check out Better Man. And this this podcast is a doorway to resources. It's a doorway to more conversations.

Speaker 2:

So we we hope that any man listening, who's drawn in by this conversation we're gonna have today would would check out Better Man. And from what I've read from you, Robert, something that stood out to me about what you wrote was that, men usually try to give their sons and their children something that's good, but not necessarily what's best.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And I I think that's probably what you're getting at on Better Man is going from good, getting better so that you can give the best. So Exactly right. So I I love that. Well, I wanna just even set up, just a little bit of our conversation to say that understanding biblical masculinity really does help you, in mentoring because you're giving, your mentee something to shoot for, something to follow after. And so if we're gonna be good mentors, we need to be good men and not just good men, but better men always continually to be humble and and growing in our manhood because I I think that's just what God has called us to.

Speaker 2:

We're just as we grow from sons to fathers, we grow into into manhood. And so, I'm excited to talk about biblical masculinity, but first off, I'd like to just hear about your life, Robert Lewis. Could you paint a picture for our listeners what life at your home looks like right now?

Speaker 3:

Well, you want me to talk about the home I grew up in or just where I am right now as of I

Speaker 2:

want you I want you to talk about your manhood right now, mister Lewis. Okay. What does that look like right now in this season?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I think, you know, there's a statement in Genesis about Abraham when he grew older, right before he died. It's it's been a verse that I've always looked to even when I was a younger man and thought I'd love to get to that moment where it talked about Abraham passing away. And it said that Abraham died at a ripe old age, satisfied with life. Ain't that a powerful statement?

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

Satisfied with life, because I know so many men who die with regrets. They they chased after certain, images of manhoods, certain, goals that promised them, you know, dissatisfied life, and it didn't deliver. And yet Abraham, for whatever reason, died at this ripe old age really satisfied with his life. And I I remember when I was a younger guy, I thought that's how I wanna finish my life. So, thankfully, became a Christian when I was in college and and over time, God led me to really a clear vision of what it meant to be a man through the scriptures.

Speaker 3:

And, I made a decision decision to put a stake in the ground and live for that. And, so here I am, this last year I turned 70 years old. Still can't believe it. I'm 70 years old. I'm about to celebrate my 50th wedding anniversary.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

I have I have 4 children, and I'm soon to have my 11th grandchild this summer. All my kids are grown. They're married. They're Christians. They're married Christians.

Speaker 3:

They they are reasonably mature in their thirties and forties as Christian men and women. They have leadership positions, spiritual leadership positions in the church and in the community, which just thrills me. And, surprisingly, they although they lived overseas, several of them, they now all live within about 20 minutes of me.

Speaker 2:

No way.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So so unlike how I grew up, where my my brothers and I moved away, and my mom and dad were always kinda distant grandparents, at a moment's notice, I can just call and we can have a herd at my house of, my sons and daughters, their spouses, and these grandchildren, and it's just a big party. So I'm here at 70 years old with a heritage that looks rich and fruitful and is reasonably healthy. We're not perfect by any means. I don't wanna paint that to our listeners.

Speaker 3:

We got flaws like anybody else, and we've had struggles like anybody else. But at this season of my life, I look over my my my kids and grandkids, and I I smile because my kids are difference makers. They're life givers. They're they're healthy. They're spiritually minded.

Speaker 3:

And, I've got a great marriage. You know, I started dating my wife when she was in junior high, so we've been together forever. And, and we have a rich relationship as a husband and wife. We've got good friends. And I tell you, Steven, all the money in the world could not buy the wealth that I enjoy relationally at this season of my life.

Speaker 3:

And, I feel like I have a a sound walk with God, So I put over that. The reason I say that is I put over that. Even this morning when I was starting this morning on my knees, thanking God for this new day, I have to say, I'm satisfied with life. If God took me right now, I would be satisfied.

Speaker 2:

Wow. Can we just take a second and praise God? Like, how how many times do you get to hear that from the older generation, someone who's 70, who could who could say I'm satisfied? I'm just I'm really blessed by that, Robert. And

Speaker 3:

And I'll say this one other thing, just one other little caveat, which is why I'm here today, why you invited me here today. About two and a half years ago, as I was wrapping up some of my other men's projects and those kind of things and moving into this, what I call senior season of life, I asked God, I said, God, would you give me the opportunity to go big one more time? That's an interesting prayer, but but I've I've gone big and then I've had a international men's ministry. I've written books and things like that. But, you know, when you get to be older, you begin to feel like, am I on the shelf?

Speaker 3:

God, would you give me the opportunity to go big one more time? And I had no thought at that point how that would happen. But I had some younger guys come and ask me to start a a ministry or start an outreach here in town at a hotel to teach younger men using older men, the fundamentals of manhood again. So I took a second run at it, redrafted all the things I know so I could speak to millennial men, and that has become now Better Man, believe it or not. So here I am at 70, and we're launching a national ministry this year.

Speaker 3:

And I get to be a part of it. And I've had other men come alongside to support, work with me, and even fund Better Man. And I thought, now how good is God? Mhmm. He's going to let me be like Caleb at the senior level of my life, and I still have another run-in me.

Speaker 3:

So I'm just so thankful. I just gotta tell you, I'm just so grateful to be with you today and to be able to even give God praise for this season that I'm in.

Speaker 2:

That's so good, Robert. Well, it definitely sounds like God's grace is on your life and that that you've you've taken that personally

Speaker 3:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

And said, okay, Lord. I'm I'm I'm gonna be blessed and your your favor's on my life, and I'm gonna I'm gonna live with it. So I'm I'm just super appreciative to to hear that and and to see I mean, faithfulness is not developed in a day. And so even it's just you saying you went from dating this girl in junior high to 11 grandchildren and 50 years of marriage. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean, yesterday, last night, my wife and I celebrated 9 years of marriage, and, I was thinking about I was a £175 when we started dating, and now I'm 235. And though that sounds depressing, I was like, you know, she just loves so much more of me these days. So I guess for you, it was probably a £100 when you were in junior high. So it's pretty great. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'd love to just, jump into even kind of your story of of growing up, and because I I know this ministry has has come to you because god's moved in your life. And so I I wonder if you could even just share in what ways God has used your life story to influence what you've given your life to, and, I mean, just the ministry to challenge men to become who they're made to be. Where did that come from?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. And I I do, think that as I look back, there is a storyline that led me to invest in men, as a pastor of a large church back in the nineties. But my story began, in a small town in Louisiana, Ruston, Louisiana, which is probably your listeners probably might know it because there is a university there, Louisiana Tech, which, gives it a little bit of a notoriety.

Speaker 3:

But I grew up there in a, in a home in which I always call it the modern family before it was modern. I grew up in the fifties. And, during that time, most families, the dad worked and the mom stayed at home. But in my home, both my parents worked. My my mom had a very prominent position in a law firm, And so I was raised with, daycare and with, people coming in to kinda, be there for us during those early child rearing years and those kind of things.

Speaker 3:

So my mom was a professional. My dad was a professional. As I moved into junior high with my 2 brothers, it became clear that my mom and dad had a problem in their marriage. And a lot of it centered around my dad's alcohol. He was a World War 2 veteran and, alcohol was a large part of his and his friends' lives.

Speaker 3:

But, unlike maybe some of his friends, it captured my dad and it became an addiction. And so during my formative years where I really needed kinda my dad to speak into my life, my dad was real distant, emotionally closed off, and I think coped with life through excessive bouts with alcohol that then became more and more an issue. So by the time I got into high school, I was kind of the referee between my mom and dad, which was really damaging in many ways. I I, you know, I respected my dad as a provider, but I disrespected my dad because I always felt ashamed of the fact that in a small town, everybody knew he had that problem, and it would come up in little ways. And I always felt like, you know, my dad disappointed me.

Speaker 3:

I knew he loved me, but he disappointed me. And my mom was trying to fill that gap, and I didn't want her to fill that gap. So I was always reacting to my mom. So I had all this turmoil in my life, as I moved into into high school. And, athletics kind of became my outlet, where I kind of escaped to.

Speaker 3:

I ended up being a pretty good athlete. And, during my junior and senior year in high school, this is kinda goes along with the mentoring ministry that, you're such a part of. But I would say a lot of my turning point came because a high school coach, this is the term I'd like to use, noticed me.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 3:

Not just as an athlete. I think he noticed that I had a vacuum in my life and needed encouragement and affirmation, different than just you're a good athlete, but just to encourage me as a, a young man growing up into the first season of manhood. And so he would do little things in in in sports with me, calling me on the side, giving me a a fun, kinda lovable nickname and encouraging me and telling me I'd be good one day. And let me tell you, that was for a guy who lacked that from his dad, that father food, I'm telling you, I get in. It it stabilized me.

Speaker 3:

And where I could have been a rebel, it made me wanna be good. And I think it also helped me be a better athlete. So when I when I finished high school, I, got a scholarship to the University of Arkansas to play for the Razorbacks and, went off to college. I've never been really away from home, and I went off to college. And, those were great years for the Razorbacks.

Speaker 3:

I mean, we actually, my my junior year, played for the national championship against Texas, by the way. But I was part of all that drama of a great athletic team. I had great friends in college. But but something special happened during those years. Campus Crusade moved in and began to share the gospel in our athletic dorm.

Speaker 3:

And a lot of athletes, including myself, came to Christ. And, we got discipled. So along with kind of that stability of that, my coach is a mentor, then I had some spiritual mentors who built into my life. And and all of that really began to ground me and kinda be a counterweight to what I lacked growing up, which is why I love what you're doing. And so when I became a senior in college and graduated in in financial management, I felt I didn't wanna go into the work world.

Speaker 3:

I wanted to do something else with my life. I've been captured by a vision of ministry. I didn't know I wanted to be a pastor. I I wasn't really sure about that, but I had enough of a calling to be equipped in some way for ministry that I ended up, challenging my wife to to to say, let's go off and go to seminary. So I went off to seminary and, spent the next 4 years getting a master's of divinity and a master of arts in in, in Greek new testament.

Speaker 3:

And then I also went to a secular college, Lewis and Clark College, and worked for my master's in counseling psychology. I wanna get all the learning I could. And during that time, because I had psychology being mixed with theology, I got an interest in family and what makes healthy family and those kind of things. And when I finished, that educational experience, I went into the ministry as a pastor, but I always had a kind of a calling to work with men and women on marriage and family. And, one of my college classmates that I was in a bible study with back at Arkansas, he had the same kind of calling, and he went off and started a ministry called Family Life with Campus Crusade that became a huge national ministry and broadcast ministry in radio.

Speaker 3:

And so we got together, and I started traveling and speaking with him with family life and ended up, writing a couple of books out of that, one of which was Raising a Modern Day Night, and then helped start the church here in Little Rock. And then in the nineties, the early nineties, I had men who came to me just it it was kinda odd. They just came to me and they were some of my were classmates of mine and they said, you know, we just feel like we need to do something special for the men. And I said, like what? And they really couldn't tell me.

Speaker 3:

But but but here here's where we were. We were all young married men with families. Many of us had grown up without any instruction from dad. A lot of us grew up without dad, like me, my dad being distant from me. And we just had questions about life and how to be a husband and how to be a parent and how to have friends now that we were all working full time jobs.

Speaker 3:

There were just all these man questions. And these guys challenged me to answer those. And and, Stephen, I didn't have any answers. But what I did is I asked those guys to join me, and we would start meeting in the morning and talking about manhood. Short of this, that led to a a a ministry in Little Rock called men's fraternity.

Speaker 3:

That's what we call it. The reason I call it men's fraternity, because several of the guys encouraging me to do this had been fraternity brothers of mine back at Arkansas 10 years before this. So we we called it men's fraternity, and we did it in the morning. And in the beginning, it was like 30 guys coming. In about 3 years, it was 300 guys.

Speaker 3:

Then it got to be 600 guys. Then it got to be a 1000 guys. And by the mid nineties, it was 1400 men coming every Wednesday morning going through this material that I was frantically writing, rewriting, and then adding to that became the men's fraternity 3 year curriculum. Then Lifeway got involved with that and said they wanted to publish it. And then it went around the United States, around the world, and it became kind of a second career for me while I was pastoring a large church here in Little Rock and raising my kids and ultimately where I am today.

Speaker 3:

So that that's kind of my journey. But along the way, I feel like it helped me solidify all the the experiences I had with a mentor as a coach, a mentor as a spiritual, a guy in college, you know, and how to build into men and come alongside and put them together as groups. And then, then writing Modern Day Night, I began to think that we didn't have a we didn't have any course to launch our sons into manhood. So put that together, I was just here's what I want our listeners to know. I was learning all this and then just writing about my experiences.

Speaker 3:

And what happened was God this is what I believe, God gave me success because everything I've done is from being a practitioner.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 3:

God just simply blessed it. And, you know, whatever he's done with it, I give him praise. But I'm the one that got stable. And I feel like I built for myself a biblical manhood that was that that really when you look in the scripture, you can see it. It's a timeless manhood that God has wanted for us from the beginning, and it involves a clear understanding of what manhood is.

Speaker 3:

I always say you can't you can't become what you can't define. So I define manhood. I realized that to be a man, I needed to lock arms with other men because manhood works best in community. Manhood is a team sport. And then helping men process their sons to manhood using rights of passage.

Speaker 3:

But even more than that, having a game plan, what I call a a game plan for being a dad so that it's very clear what you're trying to accomplish even before you start as a young dad. But, anyway, I I've just been putting that together, and Better Man is another stage of that, whereas a much older man I can invest in in younger men, because all of life is best put for men, building men, and investing in men as you grow up as a man. So that's my life in my manhood story.

Speaker 2:

It's so good. I I love how it comes it comes from a relational deficit that that you felt that then I mean, you you said, a coach noticed you, which I I love I love thinking about I mean, just that word. I've heard that word before in in our kids. Like to share a quick story, I got a text from a single mom in our community who said that every time her family goes out to the park, her boy brings a football and he throws it up in the air like this, and he's looking and he's searching for an older man to notice him Yeah. To play catch.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And the the mom shared with me that she tries to fill in that space to say, well, I'll play catch with you. And he said, no. No. No. No.

Speaker 2:

It's no. Like, that's not what he wants. And so every every time this single mom tries to fill in that gap, it just further shows him the thing that he wants and desires most. And

Speaker 3:

He wants the father food. We all Yeah. Father food, and dad is the first father feeder. A mentor becomes a father feeder. And if those are all good, it ultimately leads to the ultimate father, our heavenly father.

Speaker 3:

And then we finish that whole life cycle by becoming a father feeder ourselves. And

Speaker 2:

Come on.

Speaker 3:

Always I always wanna mention this because I just told my story. But the coach who noticed me, when I became a young dad like you just did, my first two, children were girls. And, I remember when I was in the birthing room, and the doctor said on my 3rd, it's a boy. My first thought because this coach, his name was coach Garrett. But when the doctor said, it's a boy, my first thought was, I'm gonna name him Garrett.

Speaker 3:

And so my my firstborn son is named Garrett because of the the powerful life shaping influence of just a coach who would notice me, and that's what all young men want.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So good. Wow. Talking about being a practitioner, I I mean, I feel like most people don't necessarily have that great of a a a memory of their coach, but a coach is a practitioner. They're going to notice you.

Speaker 2:

They're a noticer. Yeah. And so that's part of part of the job description, and I I just love that even, even within that, you saying your success is from being a practitioner and being hungry for the father food, that was the impetus for you growing as a man, you gathering men together. It wasn't just an isolated you figured it out yourself. You had a community of men who were longing and bringing their hunger together.

Speaker 2:

So I just I think that's amazing. I don't know how you gathered 1400 people without breakfast tacos, though. I'd love to

Speaker 3:

They I'd love to hear There were cheap donuts. That's all we had. Okay.

Speaker 2:

Okay. Alright. Well, glad glad we cleared that up for the next guy. Well, Robert, I wanna jump into some biblical manhood questions just as a a follow-up to that. So, I mean, I I think every mentor I mean, we we have a sign back here that says you can mentor, and I I believe that's true because I think it's what's what god has put within us to be that practitioner, to be that notice, or to be that father figure.

Speaker 2:

And our heart is to see the heavenly father light men up to to walk in who they're made to be. God casts a high vision for manhood and fatherhood and masculinity. And so I wonder if you could unpack, what you've seen in your experience. Yeah. Just what what is God's vision for masculinity masculinity?

Speaker 2:

Why is masculinity important to God?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Well, it's important to God because when you open the Bible in the first book, when God starts his creative process after he's finished the universe and the world, he creates man. And, and, he created the male and female. So right from the very beginning, God had some very distinct callings on the human race, and the most primal distinct calling was that he was calling part of the human race to be female, and there's all kinds of richness in what that means, and he was calling the other half to be male. And so it's hard to live what I call a vital successful life without understanding what that primal calling is.

Speaker 3:

I mean, we can layer success and career and fame and those kind of things on top of that. But if the core is still foggy and unclear, it diminishes maleness rather than fuel injects it. And so one of the things that we do at Better Man is we scratch, very hard at where do you go to find a definition of masculinity that can last you your whole life? And we look at some of the sources that don't give you life or that are what I call less than rich, answers. They they provide cheap substitutes.

Speaker 3:

Some of that is, you know, being a a guy who's just famous and is drawing all the, the the the energy of life towards himself. He's a lifetaker. He wants to be noticed by his achievements or his money or his sexuality or things like that. Some of it is playing the victim. I just wanna be taken care of.

Speaker 3:

Somebody take help me. I didn't get what I needed growing up, so I'm just going to sure call responsibility. There's all kinds of different approaches. But the the question we ask, is there a message out there that's always been there, a timeless message? And as Christians, we know that timeless message has been preserved in the Bible.

Speaker 3:

So I just invite guys to let's look in the Bible. Does it have anything to say? Because it's been around longer than any other book. Does it have anything to say about masculinity? And, of course, the shocking thing is right in the opening pages of scripture is God calling a childlike figure by the name of Adam up into authentic manhood.

Speaker 3:

That's what's going on in the garden. He's being called into manhood. He's not a man. He's called Adam, which in Hebrew is man, but he's still a boy man. And experiences that are going on in the garden with God is the father's attempt to mentor his son to the kind of manhood that ultimately could bless the whole world.

Speaker 3:

And so what we look at in Genesis, and I wouldn't invite any of our listeners to to to remember this and look at this, but do you see basically and this is what I do with men. You see kind of 4 experiences there in Genesis. I've done I know there's lots more, but before that that Moses focuses on are 4 things that the father is calling his son up to that would make him truly masculine. And the first is to listen to his father's instruction. So Adam opens his eyes.

Speaker 3:

God's telling him, hey, let me kinda coach you on what's going on here. And, a lot of times, we think of the garden as this innocent paradise of bliss. I always like to remind, guys that the garden had a lot of potential in it, but it was a very dangerous and threatening place. And there was an enemy that was out to destroy his masculinity. Wow.

Speaker 3:

Only way he could step up into masculinity, true masculinity, was not only to listen to God's word, but in the face of this threat, this enemy, this danger, he had to courageously obey God's word, which is one of the first foundational things of true masculinity is to courageously follow God's word. That's why you've got so many men in churches today who are listening to God's word, but if they don't apply it with a struggling marriage or with a son that they don't know how to raise or at the workplace, they're not being courageous so they're staying stuck in what I call boydom. And we got a lot of Christian men who are really boys because they haven't chosen the first pillar of masculinity, and that is not just to listen to God's word but to courageously follow it. Then the second interaction in Genesis is God brings him a woman. And he's bringing him a woman to love and protect, which is the 2nd life giving responsibility of masculinity.

Speaker 3:

And here we are. That was given to Adam that he failed miserably in that responsibility. But here we are, 1000 of years later in 2020, and what are women saying? You don't respect me. You don't protect me.

Speaker 3:

The call on masculinity that draws men up from being a a boy to a man is they finally get it, and they love and protect the woman that comes into their life. And that starts with dating. Actually, it starts with mom, dating and then also the woman that they married. So that's the second pillar. The third is God gave Adam a work to do.

Speaker 3:

And it wasn't just a job. It was a calling, a sacred calling to use his gifts and skills to bless the world. And so a real man accepts that responsibility to excel at the work God gives him, which is not just 8 to 5, but it's how to use his gifts even beyond that to bless the world. And then the last calling, that you see, life giving calling between God and his son, was to be a dad, to be fruitful and multiply, not just to have children, not just to spawn kids and leave them like we see today, but to invest in them so you could conquer the world with them. Your legacy is being a dad who raises a healthy next generation son or daughter.

Speaker 3:

And so with those 4 life giving responsibilities by the way, Jesus lived out all those. And in and in the book of Corinthians, Paul calls Jesus, the second Adam, who is a life giving spirit. Genesis, the first Adam was given those life giving responsibilities to grow up from being a boy to a man with that he didn't fulfill, but the second Adam did. And so there's your timeless definition of masculinity. It's to courageously follow God's word, love and protect God's woman, excel at God's work, and better God's world through launching a healthy next generation.

Speaker 3:

And if men in America today would just simply say, that's home plate. I start

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And if I can get that and say, that's my focus, and then build the rest of my life, which could have all kinds of other additions to that, but always protect home base and be that kind of man, we would change the world.

Speaker 2:

Man, you're getting me fired up. That is so good. That's that's the best foundation to build upon build your life upon Yeah. And to make sure all 4 of those are are a a vision for your life.

Speaker 3:

That's right. And so when when my boys let me take my boys for instance, and they have sons of their own who are now just starting to grow up and and get close to being teenagers. I don't want my boys to be at a contest when my son my grandsons are playing, let's say, baseball or football, and they're yelling from the stands, man up. Be a man. You know?

Speaker 3:

I don't mind them saying that, but if but here's what is even deeper and richer. If those grandsons turn to my boys and say, well, dad, what do you mean by that? I want them to be able to say to their sons what I said to them that they can now repeat even to this day. And that is if their grandsons said, what do you mean by that? What's a man?

Speaker 3:

My sons were asked that after leaving my home, and they could turn to any man that asked them what's a man, and they could say, let me tell you what a man is. A man is one who graciously follows God's word, loves and protects God's woman, excels at God's work, and betters God's world. That's the man. That's the definition that defines masculinity in a timeless eternal way. And when men can state it and define it, then they can become it.

Speaker 3:

But if they can't define it, it's very hard to become it because you live in a fog.

Speaker 2:

Wow. It's really good. It it makes me think about for for our organization, we we tell our boys that men of God act with responsibility, humility, integrity, leadership, and respect, but those are just words to little boys.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Those mean nothing unless we actually live them out, live out a definition within our lives.

Speaker 3:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

And so it's it's one thing to to say, well, this is what masculinity is. It's another to show it and to prove it. And so, and, I mean, I'd I'd love if you could could share with that. I I mean, I think I love the definition coming straight from the beginning of time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I mean, you cannot There's where the platform is.

Speaker 2:

It's like, okay. I can't argue with that. It's like day 1, God says this is what masculinity is or day 6. Sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Gotta get that right, but, that's that's really powerful.

Speaker 3:

Well, it was that one for Adam.

Speaker 2:

There you go. Yes. It it was his first day. That's well, Robert, from from your experience, I mean, even even I'd I'd like to hear from just your own experience with your grandsons maybe. What what do you see that's keeping them from becoming real men?

Speaker 2:

What are the main things that hold them back? Because, obviously, you know, our our organization, we mentor kids from hard places, and there are just a lot of new iterations. I'm sure you're having to write second, 3rd, 4th editions of your books to include social media and Right. Random things that are going on over the years, and, I'd I'd just love to hear from you what what's keeping boys and men from becoming real men right now in this current hour?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Well, I'll I'll mention one that I can back up with with the Barna research that I told you we just did. One of the things that was stunning in the in the research was that young men, under 35 are the loneliest generation in the history of America. And and when they you probe a little dip deeper, their sense of mental and emotional well-being is very fragile because of that. Because they're disconnected from much more, what I call community relationships with not just friends, peers, but with, older men.

Speaker 3:

Not just dad, but older men where there's a community of men that are speaking into their life common values. And what we've got the biggest danger in America today is we're a fractured society with confused values, with people taking stride at positions. And a young boy, my my grandson's growing up today, they desperately need to hear a clarion, consistent voice about what's important in life, what a man is, what a man looks like, and then to have experiences around those men. Not just dad, but other men. So I would say we're a lonely generation that needs masculine community more than ever before.

Speaker 3:

And so that is that's a key that would hold my grandsons back if they don't have that. I'm so thankful that their dads are involved in their life, that those those, young boys have dads who are inviting other boys and other men together to do experiences, not to sit in a room and just watch, you know, different video games. I mean, they do some of that, but they see the dangers of that. So they're constantly calling them out of the house and into real life and away from just what I call virtual life. But I would say community is extremely important.

Speaker 3:

Just like what mentoring, with boys who are growing up, without a dad or whatever is so critical to what you do, I I can't cheer for you enough, because that is actually vital to the soul of a boy. But I would say one of the if I were looking at today's world, the biggest danger that really I don't have I I've got advice for. There are others who are speaking with practical skills, but the the computer and the phone is the greatest threat to even healthy homes. And that is if there isn't some kind of monitor monitoring and watchfulness and conversation from dad to son and dad to daughter about that and how much time they spend, they are being brutally exposed to what I call the worst of depravity at levels that they're developing social cycle, social, psychic, and emotional makeup can't handle. They're being traumatized, especially sexually, with sexually explicit exposures that do unbelievable damage to them, and a good mom and dad not recognizing what a threat that is to healthy development for a son or daughter is making a huge mistake.

Speaker 3:

And I would just say, the you know, social isolation and, social media are the 2 biggest threats to child rearing today in America.

Speaker 2:

And how much more so those would be issues within single parent homes?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So

Speaker 3:

I I I just really, you can't overstate it. And and just to show you that I was talking to a college ministry that's having a tremendous impact on on the college campus. And one of the directors of that told me, this just gives you a feel that 5 years ago, they began to notice that that some of their, students who had graduated and wanted to go on staff with them as a ministry, that the young males, when going through the interview process, would all confess to having a pornography problem. He told me this year, in the interviews that they did with multiple I mean, we're talking hundreds of staff people. They could not find one male interview where the the student who had been a student leader in that campus ministry who didn't confess to having a pornography issue.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

That's that's that's where we are today. It's just become rampant. And in the Barna study that we just finished, with young males, 1 third of Christian young men have a major pornography problem, and another 50% are not really even sure that it's wrong. So here we are, the challenges are immense, which even mean, even more so that dad is involved in their life and that fatherless boys have people speak into their life and we're getting these young men out of the house and away from social media into real life experiences that will capture their attention and ultimately, point to a career path.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Man, I'd yeah. I'm I'm it messes me up thinking about just the challenges, the obstacles, the just all of the difficulties that are placed on kids from hard places who have enough to deal with if it weren't for all of these other things that are vying to to give them a message, a a vision for masculinity that falls way short of that day 6 definition. And, I mean, our our hope is to redefine masculinity and, by god's grace, empower these boys to walk in to becoming the men that they are made for. And I I think even just just from our conversation, I mean, a lot of that is a process that every man is still going through

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Is still working through, that we're all we're all on the journey to becoming better men.

Speaker 3:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

And I yeah. I mean, I I don't wanna say I mean, it sounds hopeless, but there's hope that, that far

Speaker 3:

One of the things that God has done is is when there's relationship and our God is a God of relationship. And that's what I, again, I love about what you're doing. But in relationships, a boy is being imprinted in his soul through relationships. And when he gets imprinted with a male who notices him, affirms him, encourages him, and loves him, and then offers him a noble path, He may be exposed to all kinds of, what I call, depraved temptations and experiences, growing up, where there's not a lot of additional supervision and those kind of things. But here's the amazing thing, that imprint will begin to grow and have green sprouts to it.

Speaker 3:

And he may make mistakes in those early years, but if he's got the imprint of a male who loved him and showed him attention and affirmed him, the the thing that I'm so encouraged of, as vile as sometimes experiences are with fatherless children or even with fathered kids, they they have these, vile exposures. That's what I call them. It's just nothing more than depravity. But those moments of seeing the the noble side of life, the godly side of life, the lovely, beautiful side of life of male relationships, those growing men will come back to that many times and grab onto it. And like me, growing up with, did they have not bought my life in alcohol?

Speaker 3:

That woundedness then turns into, for many of these young men, an incredible strength of fuel. It's a scar, and a scar has got you know, it it stands out, but it becomes a launching pad to a life that goes, I'm gonna make a difference and not let others suffer this wound now that I'm healed. And that's what mentoring launches. It launches, not in every case, but in but in a number of cases, young men who who've who've been abused or beat up or lost or confused, but through relationships imprinted with a noble calling of spirituality and masculinity that leads them to become difference makers in the next generation. And I'm I'm an illustration of that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes me think about, just love covers a multitude of sins That's right. And just that that imprint of a mentor over all the darkness, all the all the That's right. Challenges and the

Speaker 3:

the the things that kids have experienced that

Speaker 2:

we imprint over that, a love imprint of a a masculinity to long for.

Speaker 3:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

And I'd yeah. I just love that. I I wonder if you could, you kinda shared a bunch of your friends who were becoming dads. You just started started this this thing, this men's fraternity to invest in men. I I wonder if you have, yeah, found any biblical mandate to to do that, to influence and encourage other men's growth in their own masculinity, like because I I know obviously it came from a longing of just, man, how the heck are we gonna be the men that our families deserve and God wants us to be, and let's get together and let's let's do this.

Speaker 2:

Is there a biblical mandate to do that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I think I think I think you see it all the way through the scriptures, but, you know, if I'm sitting there, thinking of just a few passages that would speak to that, the great passage in Proverbs where it says, as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. The other proverb, it says, he who walks with the wise will be wise. The Hebrews passage, forsake not the assembling of yourselves together, but learn how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds. I always tell the guys, I love that word stimulate.

Speaker 3:

In the Greek, it's the Greek word peroximos, and it's the word we get peroxide from, which is kind of an irritant, a cleansing agent. When men gather, they come together not just to be buddies and love on one another. They come to actually rub up against one another and cleanse one another and and put, a cleansing agent in each other's lives so that they can be called up to love and good deeds. That's what men do with other men who are pursuing the same god. They take each other higher than they would have gotten to in and of themselves.

Speaker 3:

And one of the great, joys of my life, and I think one of the great rewards of my life is that I was at least looking at those scriptures and, willing to invite other men into my life to form what I call a manhood team. And I've larger numbers and smaller numbers. I've I've got a team even to this day that we meet together every week. But those guys have been champions in my life in illustrating to me things that I'm missing. They've been courageous in that they have rebuked me at times on things that I shouldn't be doing that I'm not doing, but they've also been inspirations to me to to join with me to say, let's do this or let's do that.

Speaker 3:

And we've done it together and enjoyed the victory together. There's nothing, hey, I'm a team guy. There's nothing that is more fulfilling than to do something with a group of other guys that really made a difference. I mean, the fir I remember the first ceremony, because I got with 2 other dads and we this was years ago, but we teamed up and said, let's raise our 7 sons using rite of passage ceremonies. And we had 7 sons and we came up with 4 ceremonies, which meant, we were gonna do 28 ceremonies with our 7 sons, starting with them being 11 years old to where we committed that we would do the last ceremony with a son when he got married, whenever that was.

Speaker 3:

So for the next 20 something years, we three dads held each other accountable. And a few years ago, we did the last of those 28 ceremonies at my son's rehearsal dinner, where we called him into the final calling of manhood when he was about to take a wife. And we had him stand up at his rehearsal dinner in front of us dads, us 3 dads. And we talked briefly to the crowd about how these boys had been raised through these rites of passage, and we challenged our that son, my son Mason, with this new phase he was about to enter into. His job was to love and protect his wife, to raise his sons and daughters to be next generation difference makers and all that.

Speaker 3:

And we had him kneel in front of the crowd, and we brought out that sword, that big, Excalibur sword that we used to define manhood when he was 13. And we laid it on his shoulders and prayed over him in front of that crowd and told him, go and show yourself now a full man.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

And so those are the kind of things and and it was the 3 of us doing it. And afterwards, we all hung together because we realized we had accomplished something over 20 something years in raising our 7 sons who are now all healthy males, all married, all with families, all with Christian wives, and some of them in full time Christian ministry. We did it. We did it together. Together is always better, by the way, with men.

Speaker 3:

So I would just say those are those are the kind of things that become difference makers.

Speaker 2:

It's so good. And I think that's why we exist as a mentoring organization because it's better to mentor together.

Speaker 3:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

To to be alongside men that are like minded, have the same trajectory, and are wanting to hold one another accountable to doing what we said we'd do. And I I like the image of iron sharpening iron, and I I just imagine it doesn't really matter how sharp the iron is before it's Yeah. It starts sharpening. So you don't you don't gotta be a sharp guy to just just find some other dude. He may be dull, but if you get keep getting together, you're gonna sharpen one another.

Speaker 3:

If if if your other buddy just wants to follow Christ, I call him not just a playmate, he's a soulmate, and you guys are serious, what you will do, even if you got the dullest of swords, you will knock up against one another. And before life is over, you'll look and you'll say, my sword my sword's been sharpened by being in this this community of men.

Speaker 2:

That's so good. And I think that's what I mean, every man longs to be shaped and formed into kinda what you see in the proverbs of just this wise man who could glean understanding and learn from fools and, just just be shaped in such a way that every experience could make you better.

Speaker 3:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

And not just need to need to talk to the smartest guy in the room in order to grow. That's right. And I I think that's, yeah, just so encouraging that, I mean, the the scripture gives us this mandate to, hey. Don't do this alone. Get together with other guys and run after me, seek after me, and seek to cleanse one another.

Speaker 2:

I mean, even just you I mean, we talked about love covers a multitude of sins, confessing your sins to one another, as as well as I mean, I I think a lot of a lot of manhood is taking responsibility and making a plan and sticking it through. And so I'm sure probably I don't know. I mean, maybe you'd say the 20 years was was great the whole time, but maybe 15 years in, you were like, guys, we really gonna do this for all of them? Shouldn't shouldn't we just call it now? I don't know about Garrett.

Speaker 2:

I don't think Garrett needs the sword. We'll just we'll just do it Mason and call it a night.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. That's right.

Speaker 2:

But

Speaker 3:

I but I will say this. I think, guys, one of the things I think your listeners need to hear, your male listeners, to me, the biggest lie that defeats men today is this lie that they tell themselves. And that is, I should know what to

Speaker 2:

do. Mhmm.

Speaker 3:

And what I always tell guys is, who told you you should know what to do? Because the truth is, manhood is a learned experience. Adam didn't know what to do until his father came and taught him. So I always tell guys, if you're in a marriage and you're struggling, don't think you need to go all by yourself and beat yourself up saying I should know what to do. What you should say is, I don't know what to do, and I need to go get with other guys and find out what I'm missing here.

Speaker 3:

It's the same way no dad knows how to be a parent. Okay? And when he gets that first child, if he's thinking I should know what to do, he's lying to himself. No. You need to learn what to do.

Speaker 3:

All of life for masculinity is a learned experience. Manhood, you're not born with manhood. You you you are instructed into manhood. The question is, what kind of instruction are you gonna go seek for? Because if you seek for the wrong kind, it's gonna debilitate your growth as a man.

Speaker 3:

If you go to the right sources and find what I call healthy manhood instruction, it will call you up to lead a more balanced, healthy, robust manhood experience so that you can get to the end of your life and look back over your landscape and go, you know, I I wasn't perfect by any means, but I'm satisfied with my life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. Well and I I love what you said about masculinity is not something that you're born with, but you you come into it

Speaker 3:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

And it's it's taught. I don't think that's what our our boys would say, and I I I think I think that growing up in homes are are the boys in our program. They grow up with sisters and mothers, and they see themselves as different so they assume, okay, well, I'm a man, you're a woman, and I think they formulate on their own through the various things that they consume, whether it's on social media, TV, music videos, or at school, so they're learning manhood from their peers or learn learning boyhood, I guess. They learn a false sense of masculinity. That's right.

Speaker 2:

And I think a lot of I mean, just what I hear you saying is that that the the process a mentor who's mentoring a kid from a hard place is not sharpening the boy's sword, it's giving him a sword Yeah. And and showing him how to use it and and calling him into something that he has never known.

Speaker 3:

He doesn't know anything about. And, see, what what breaks my heart even with us talking and I'm thinking about it, you got all these fatherless boys. They know they're different in the homes they're growing up in with, maybe, like you said, a mom and a sister who who may be trying really hard to help. But but if you're alone as a young male, you tell yourself, I've gotta figure this out. And you know what?

Speaker 3:

That's the greatest lie he could tell himself. But that's the only message he can tell himself. I gotta figure this out by myself because no one's here. And so that leads to all kinds of dead ends and mistakes and regrets and stuff like that. But a mentor comes along and gently, in different ways, not with that straight on message, but he's got to help this developing male realize, you know, manhood or growing up is not something you have to figure out all by yourself.

Speaker 3:

It's something you all got to find. It's out there. We gotta find the holy grail of manhood, the the the the timeless wisdom, and then buy into that by learning it because manhood has learned. Manhood is not just assumed. Manhood is not something you guess at.

Speaker 3:

All those things are are going to be, hurtful to your experience. But, man, that is a learned process and you don't have to beat yourself up for not knowing it. All you need to do is keep encouraging yourself to go find it because it's out there. And a mentor becomes kind of a voice by loving on a young boy or by being with a young boy. He's communicating nonverbally as much as verbally.

Speaker 3:

Here's here's a different path that you don't have to just figure out on your own. I'm in your life to help you figure it out. And that's the great turning point because that young boy says, there's somebody here that can fill in the fog for me and blow it away and give me clarity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. And I I remember something you said that that boys have a tendency to fall into themselves Yep. Because of that that feeling of no one's gonna teach me, so I'm I'm just gonna have to and that internalization becomes, I mean, a huge issue for for boys' development because they Yes. They no longer look for something to show me what to do.

Speaker 2:

I have to find it in myself.

Speaker 3:

And that's so listen. That's so primal, and it's so debilitating. But that's that's what's got to be corrected in a lot of men's lives. Even today, girl, I got I got grown up guys who are very successful around me, and they're still looking inside to figure it out. And that's what's holding them back from being a successful husband, father, or even a follower of Jesus because they don't get it.

Speaker 3:

They don't get that manhood is not something you have to figure out on your own. It's something you've got to find that's out there and is available for you, but it comes usually through the community of being with other men.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. That's so good, Robert. What what would you say to kind of finish our time? What are some practical ways mentors could show their mentees what it means to be a real man? So even in in a one formal sitting, what would you recommend for someone?

Speaker 2:

Because, obviously, you can't unpack you you kinda mentioned that. We can't have this conversation with our boys one time and think that, okay, we've given them manhood. But just how do how do we move move the I don't know what you call that. Move the move the stakes.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Move the needle move the needle.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Move the Yeah. How do we move it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Well, for for mentors who are just engaging in a in a relationship with a a young protege or whatever, I I really think that that that the the just example of loving and encouraging is the most powerful step forward in the beginning. If you try to over instruct, that usually doesn't work. That sounds like a lecture of some kind. But I would say this, I would say that the formula that I've always used, the simple formula, is what Jesus needed from his father.

Speaker 3:

And Jesus needed constant encouragement from his heavenly father and we actually get to see that in the scriptures because the gospel is mentioned on 6 occasions. I don't think it was necessarily 6 occasions, but because they they're gospel, so they they overlap. But anytime you ever heard the father speak audibly to the son, God said always the same thing. And he mentioned 3 things in this, what I call the blessing. And this is what I call the mentor's blessing.

Speaker 3:

The father the heavens opened up and Jesus is in the midst of his ministry and everybody hears the father speak, including Jesus, and the father says, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him. And if I could just paraphrase that for mentors, here's what the father is saying to the Jesus, the son, who desperately needed to hear this. The father is saying, this is my beloved son. In other words, I love Jesus.

Speaker 3:

In whom I am well pleased, I'm proud of Jesus. And everybody needs to listen to him because he's really good at what I call him to do. Okay? So here's what here's what I always say, as a dad or as a mentor, as you're interacting, the things you can do, not just in one sitting but in multiple sittings, but because I tell dads, you need to do these three things the rest of your life. You need to look your son in the eye or daughter and say, I love you.

Speaker 3:

Not kind of an offhanded, hey, I love you. But look at them now and say, did you know how much I really love you? Second thing is they constantly need to hear that you're proud of them. And you need to say why you're proud of them, not just the word. I'm proud of you because.

Speaker 3:

And when you reinforce your esteem for them, for certain behaviors, those behaviors take deep root in a child's soul. And then, lastly, you need to say and you're good at, and you need to specifically recognize the things that you see in your son or daughter's life or your the person you're mentoring. Think behaviors or skills, they may just be seedling skills, but you recognize, you know, you're really a smart person. You you really remember things well. I bet you're good at school.

Speaker 3:

Are you really a loyal friend? Are you really somebody who can who who just has you're just good at art. You can draw things. You know, that's calling them out in their skills or God given skills. Every mentor needs to practice the blessing regularly with your mentee.

Speaker 3:

Every dad needs to practice that with your son or daughter. So I will say that if if I were just leaving a couple of tips, I'd say practice the blessing. The other thing maybe I would say to, the mentors who have boys, you know, at some point as that relationship is established, and I did this with my boys, it might be good to have kind of a special rite of passage with your mentee. And and let me tell you, this is so simple. But just take him out for a special dinner or expect take him out for a special dessert and say to him, hey, I wanna share something that's really important to me that I think could help you.

Speaker 3:

I'm going to tell you what a man is. And and and then we can talk about it later, but I just wanna give you the parameters of what it means. At some point when you've grown up, if you become these things, you're gonna be a difference maker in the world. And then I would give him those four statements that God created man to do 4 things at the core. Follow his word, love and protect the woman in his life that might be, at this point, Pete, your mom or somebody you're dating, but but but women that are in close orbit to a man, he's always to love and protect them.

Speaker 3:

You need to excel at God's work. God's gonna call you into something. And you've got I've been telling you that you're really good at art. You might be a great artist one day, but you want to excel at that for the glory of God. And then lastly, one day, you're gonna be a dad yourself and you wanna bless the world with joy.

Speaker 3:

Now I'm just telling you that because I that's the man I'm trying to become. But for the rest of your life, I want you to remember that tonight, when we had lunch together in this special occasion, I told you what a man is, and I'm gonna always refer back to that as your North Star as a young man growing up. I think if you could have a moment like that and then just remind them of that, those that will grow that that that vision will solidify. And then if you're doing that with the emotion of the blessing, those would be the 2 twin towers of mentoring that I would say are really, really important for any mentor to know and any dad to know.

Speaker 2:

That is so good, Robert. Wow. So practical and yes. I I love how it's a it's a long obedience in the same direction. It's not just these one off things, but there are these markers, these north stars that we're pointing to and everything's going on to that.

Speaker 2:

And, I, yeah, I love the the biblical masculinity from day 6 of creation unto, yeah, just the blessing that the father spoke over Jesus that he needed to hear. That's so good. Robert, that is our time. Thank you so much for investing in our mentors.

Speaker 3:

I had a great time being with you, Steven, and God bless all that you guys are doing. And I tell you, for those guys who are serving with you to be mentors, you just know this. You are heroes, and I admire you.

Speaker 2:

Well, I hope you heard that, listeners. You can mentor. You heard it from the source, from the Bible, and you also heard it from the man of God who's been married for 50 years, Robert Lewis. I highly encourage you listeners to check out more of Robert's work. So we'll leave some links in the show notes and especially his new project, Better Man.

Speaker 2:

So he is doing this national outreach to men to teach them the fundamentals of manhood. And this is faith based as well as, people outside of the church, and he's recruiting older men to invest in younger men. And so if you're interested in that project, highly encourage you to check out Better Man. Robert, thank you for your time today.

Speaker 3:

Steven, thank you for how you did that, and, I hope this, will encourage the listeners.