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Today on the Carolina Women's Collective Podcast, I am joined by Nicole Frost. Nicole is the Chief nursing officer and VP of nursing for Carteret Healthcare, and she has a huge passion for caregiving. Welcome to the podcast today. Thank you so much for having me. So your, your resume is so impressive.
So I'm gonna kind of start at the beginning because you began your nursing career at a very young age. Can you tell us about the early start and how [00:01:00] you kind of knew your passion was caregiving?
Uh, sure. Um, I actually started my career as a certified nursing assistant while I was in high school. Um, there was a health occupations program, um, at my high school in Virginia where I lived.
And, um, I think I've always wanted to be in healthcare. I lost my mother at a really early age, and I. I think that kind of drew me into healthcare because of the stories that I heard over the years about how healthcare had changed and what that looked like. And that was back in the seventies. So obviously healthcare has changed a lot.
Um, and so I think that that was the moment in my life that very early on I said. I want to [00:02:00] take care of people. I, how do, and how do I do that? And I fell into the career of nursing and um, that has been my passion ever since.
That is awesome. So as you said, you started as a CNA and you were a single mom to three and you were furthering your education.
This is all very early in your career. Mm-hmm. So how did you go about. Balancing all of that. I can't imagine going back to school and having three young kids and working as a CNA, like, how did you balance all that and, and what did you really learn through that process of, of accomplishing all those things at the same time?
Um, honestly, I, I look back and I don't know how I did it. It, it seems like, uh, um. A blur. Um, but I did have, um, a lot of support, um, from people. I [00:03:00] did some, some things that we probably wouldn't be able to do today. Um, I would, um, of course we had 12 hour shifts here at the hospital and I was working as a CNA and um.
Daycare closed at six, so I would go run across the street and go get my kids and put them in the waiting room of the hospital, and they would sit there until I finished my shift. Um. So there were some really great people in my life to help, um, you know, guide me and support me on that journey. But there was a lot of late nights, there was a lot of weekends.
Um, and I tried to balance that out by, um, really thinking about. What was my goal? And my goal at that moment in time was I was going to do everything possible so that my kids had a future and I wanted them, [00:04:00] um, to see that education was important and that you really could be somebody and you did not have to depend on other people to be successful, that you could create your own future
being successful during that timeframe, it wasn't one big moment or lucky break for me, it was, um, I had to be willing to show up and I had to be able to embrace those struggles. Learn from the setbacks. Um, and those hard times, they taught me mental fortitude. I don't use resilience, I use mental fortitude.
Um, because those good days reminded of me why I started and it was about balance and it helped to shape me to what I became. Um. It wasn't some overnight word, you know, deal that I did. It was showing up wasn't when it wasn't fun and betting on myself when the odds were against [00:05:00] me and, um, learning that in those uncomfortable moments or when I was growing.
So you must have had a really strong belief in yourself though. So where, where did that get instilled along the way in you?
Um. I, to be honest, I did not have a whole lot of self-confidence at that time. And again, I think that was a driving force, um, for my children at that time. And, um, I had to believe in myself because I wanted them to believe in themselves and I wanted them to believe in me.
And, um, so I think over time. I started to believe in myself because it was, again, it, it was, it was messy. It was not a straight line. Um, I often, um, looked at [00:06:00] motivational quotes and, you know, Matthew McConaughey, one of 'em that says, we can't fully appreciate the light without the shadows. And I would take some of those things and I would just, when those days got hard, um.
I would say I can do this. There are people. That are ahead of me, that had did it. Um, and there are people that I want to help bring behind me that, you know, did, can do it. And so, um, I looked at those as challenges and detours and even failures. Again, that's where, um, that character was built and that perspective, um, to carry into success.
And I felt like that was the. The how was being grounded, staying grounded in that, being a lifelong learner and trusting that every step had a purpose, even though at times it seemed really ridiculous and didn't make any sense at the [00:07:00] time.
That is so, so good. And, you know, it's, it's funny how kids can, can change you so much. Yes. They do for them and Absolutely. Yeah. They just, they just make you, um, be a better person and mm-hmm. I love, I love how inspired you were by, by your children and, and Yes. The best for them. And kind of along those lines of, I mean, you're already a caregiver, you're a nurse, um, in nursing, and the majority of your career has been.
In nursing and then you decide to start teaching. Mm-hmm. So tell us about, you know, why you decided to start teaching. You obviously did a great job at it because you won the Teacher of the Year award. So what was the inspiration to, to start, um, teaching?
I think I started, uh, that path of teaching because of the people who helped me along the way and those people who gave me the hand up.
And so I wanted to give back. And so I wanted to [00:08:00] be able to teach others in the fashion that I was and maybe even a little better, um, that there were opportunities to, um, to share. My knowledge and my skills and my personal experiences, and that even though it may seem difficult, that your, your road may seem impossible.
That it's achievable, um, because not everybody has a, um, a perfect life and, um, you have to adapt. And so I feel like that I was able to share that in a, um, a very humanistic and holistic way and, um, to help people to have a career, you know? Get them on a different career path, um, to where they could instill that self-confidence themselves.
[00:09:00] Fantastic. Super, super stuff. And you said just a minute ago, you consider yourself a lifelong learner and you have numerous degrees and um, all sorts of certifications and everything, and so you've been really consistent of constantly furthering your education alongside your career. What is it about it that makes you want to just continue, continue learning new things and getting more education?
well, I think sometimes it is, it's an illness sometimes, but I just wanna, I wanna keep going, I just want to continue to better myself and be able to be the best version of me so that I can give my best version of me to others. And that's really why. Um, and I also, I. Again, that is a piece of, I am setting that example for my children, [00:10:00] for my grandchildren now.
Um, and I set that example for others, hopefully, that they can see that it's achievable. Um, you know, I'm, I, I started. Um, at the very bottom rung of the ladder in, in healthcare. Um, but it is definitely achievable. Um, if, if you really, truly want it.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You have, you have achieved so, so many things in, in healthcare and part of that education, you became a nurse practitioner, um, along the way.
And when you became a nurse practitioner, though, you kinda left the hospital field for a bit and went into a private, uh, dermatology office. If I. Believe I have that correct. What made you kind of make that shift into private practice, and what are some of the pros and cons of you working in private versus [00:11:00] the hospital system?
So when I, when I left the hospital, I, um, initially went to work as a hospitalist. Um, and then, um, then I transitioned into private practice for, um, and it was dermatology. Absolutely loved dermatology. Um, it was, it was very different, but, um. I loved being able to spend time with my patients and be able to get to know them.
We became a family of sorts. Um, and, um, I knew everything about them, about their grandchildren, their, their children, and it was a, a different perspective, um, from the hospital. Um, and. It was, it was a different way of caring for people. Um, it wasn't all about cosmetics, [00:12:00] it was also medical. But I used to have people that would come and see me and they would just come to have a social visit because they needed to, you know, they needed someone just to listen and, and I found that.
Through dermatology, I used to say, um, the skin is the window to, to our soul because you can see all the different, um, disease processes that are happening on the surface. And so I found that this was just a different way of caring for people and allowing people to, um, tell their story and. Having someone listen and hear them, where in other instances, um, they may have not had that opportunity to be heard.
So it was just a different way.
For sure, for sure. And then you did come back into the hospital system and one, I [00:13:00] guess niche, so to speak, within nursing that you have spent a lot of time doing is palliative care and um, I, I'm involved with our local hospice house and I've learned a lot about palliative care through that involvement.
But it's, that is a very difficult, um. Niche, so to speak, to, to go into, it's gotta tear your heartstrings, so. Mm-hmm. Tell us a little bit about, um, choosing that palliative care and what exactly that involves and why it's, um, why it means so much to you.
So, when I first moved to, North Carolina, my very first, Job here was a CNA in hospice and, Then, you know, obviously I went through all the different pathways, my, my not so straight line pathways, but it came full circle. And um, so palliative care is, that bridge between [00:14:00] aggressive care and end of life. And so a lot of symptom management that is. supportive care that you're, you're able to provide, um, the patients and the family when they have chronic illnesses.
Um, a lot of the time we see people that are at end of life and have not had that opportunity to have that bridge in between. but I do think the personal experiences that Have given me that innate, feeling to take care of people, to be that caregiver, to be that, empathetic listener, to care for the, the whole family unit.
Not just the patient, but the family. and not. Every, situation is the same. I don't have a script. Um, I am, it is more of a feeling and you go in and you, I, I just know I, I have that feeling of what that family member needs in that moment, what that patient needs in that moment, [00:15:00] and a lot of it is.
Giving them permission and that this is okay, that this is another part of life and giving them quality of life. And that is so important to me. based on a lot of the, I've had a lot of traumatic losses throughout my life and, um. I think I, I've, I've called on all of those people, to kind of help me, in that career.
And I absolutely love it. I think it is just as important as aggressive care so that the, the beginning of life and is important, but the end of life should be as important as a beginning and we should give it as much, um, joy as we do the beginning.
Yes. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It, it truly takes a special person to do that though.
So you're, you're one of the, the little angels sent to do that for sure. Um, and then. You have also in, [00:16:00] in all your spare time, I'm sure since you, you don't do anything. Um, you have also written some articles that are published in medical journals. Mm-hmm. So tell us about, um, what you wrote about and what the inspiration was to write those and, and how do you go about get getting them published?
so the very first one that I, uh, wrote. Was about basically bullying and nursing and how to be mentors. still an issue today. but during that timeframe, It was a lot more prevalent, um, how the phrase, how nurses eat, they're young. And, um, things have shifted quite a bit to a different perspective, I think.
I think there's, it's not as, prevalent in the sense of when I wrote it. Back then, but there's a different shape to it. But, I did write that in school and had it published. Um, the other one, was in [00:17:00] regards to palliative care. I did my, dissertation, with my doctorate, um, on palliative care.
And, so while that was challenging, It was actually a lot easier because I really did feel all those things. And so, it was part of my, um, my dissertation, like I said, so it was part of my workload of school, but it was also part of my passion, so it made it a lot easier.
It's very interesting. I, I'm always fascinated by people who.
Can write in addition to doing something totally different from, from writing, so That's awesome. Um, now our last few guests, we've had some people on that were in the restaurant and hospitality industries mm-hmm. Which we all know was severely affected by COVID. Mm-hmm. So, of course I have to ask you.
Mm-hmm. Um,
you are pretty new in your current role at Cargo Healthcare. When COVID hit. And so how did that experience maybe like [00:18:00] reshape your perspective on nursing and what were some of the greatest challenges you had to overcome during that time?
So, COVID. Oh, that was unprecedented, wasn't it?
I don't think it was something that we ever thought could happen to us here in the United States. Something that always happened to someone else. Right. the amount of loss that we had with COVID was devastating and. Loss has many, um, variations. So it's not always death and sometimes it is. it is burnout.
It is, caregiver strain. It is, Loss of self, um, and purpose. And so all of those combined was, um, very, very heavy during that timeframe. And you could see it from a [00:19:00] family patient perspective. You could see it from a nursing perspective, from a physician perspective, from the whole. Organization really, because it takes a village.
It's not just about nursing, it's about the every single person in this organization or any organization. In some ways we learned how to take care of ourselves better after COVID. I think it's taken a minute. Um, I think we were in a very hypervigilant state for quite some time after COVID, and um, I think we're learning that.
You know, the things that I preach in palliative care about quality of life, quality over quantity is so important. I think we've learned that quality really is impactful and is a very important piece of how we can actually live life and that, you know, you don't [00:20:00] have to, um. Work yourself to death, that you have to find that balance.
It's really, really important. and I feel like that COVID, while there were some negative outcomes, like how we communicate with each other, that became, that was a really difficult, um, perspective. Um, I do think that it has changed the way that we look at how we actually live.
For sure. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. So when, during COVID, you, you were in your, your current role. Mm-hmm. How many nurses were you overseeing at that point?
So in palliative care it was me. It was just me. And So the
whole
hospital? Yes. Wow. And so, um. So [00:21:00] a lot of that, it was me having those conversations at end of life, but not all me.
Um, because providers were having conversations too. Um, there were nurses that were having conversations, case management were having conversations, but a lot of it was, me, um, because I was the sole, um, palliative provider. Um, at that time I, um, it was challenging, um, because you had to navigate.
Um, we were still trying to navigate, you know, how, how do you really engage with the patients and families, how, you know, and so we used, um, sometimes it was, um, iPads for like. Kind of phone conversations, but, um, and there was some, you know, we, there people were afraid, so you couldn't, some people couldn't come into rooms where, you [00:22:00] know, COVID was prevalent.
Um, but nothing took place of that, um, that moment where you could sit by the bedside and hold their hand. And, um, and while that was scary, um, that was something that we did because that is what the patients needed in that moment. And I don't think there was one person in this organization that wanted someone to die alone.
And so, we did it together as a team.
You're gonna make me cry. That's very, very heartwarming, very heartwarming. Um, so over your career, how have you seen nursing change evolve for the better? Um, during, during this time?
I think nursing has always cared about each other. Um, you know, that's one of the things that they say, you know, it's the most trusted profession.
You know, nurses are caring, they're [00:23:00] empathetic. Um, I think I. I have seen that throughout my career. Has it evolved? Some, yes, of course. It, it, it varies because we're all human. We all have different ways of portraying how we care. Um, I think that, um, I think nursing has been able to have more of a voice than when I first started.
Um, there are, um, more. Nurses, and that includes nurse practitioners. That might be, um, CRNAs. there are more, autonomy, driven, processes now. Um, and so I think that nursing is seen more today as, um, truly I. A leader in their profession. Whereas [00:24:00] before it may have been that, people might have perceived nursing as less than, and certainly nursing is not.
No, no. So, so you feel it's more respected now? I do. I do. That's great. Here I do. Yeah. That's awesome. So you have. A long list of certifications and awards and things you've received. Is there one of them that stands out that makes you the most proud or is the most meaningful to you?
that's a good question.
Um, I, I think they all have pieces that are the most, important to me. Because I draw on all of those every day for, um, for something. But I, I would probably have to say that, um, my RN was probably, my two year RN was probably the most important if I had to look back, because [00:25:00] that was the moment when.
I realized that yes, I can do this. I can take care of my children, I can do this independently. And I had made that goal of I did this for my children and then, um, then the rest was all icing on the cake. Right? Then I started doing things for me, I guess. Um, and so I could continue to learn. Um.
But the, the nurse practitioner was also a real big piece for me because, um, I never set out to do that. I, uh, that was not a goal in my life at that time, but, um. I felt like, well, here's another step. They can show that I'm, I'm building my confidence. I am going down that not so straight path again, here's another road that I can go.
And [00:26:00] that's what's wonderful about nursing is that there are so many variations and if you don't find your passion in this one area. You can find, you can do a detour and take another road and, and find what that passion is.
That is great. That is great. Yeah. I, you, you always learn things, at least I do when I'm interviewing.
Mm-hmm. All these different facets of, of, of a profession. So that is, it's really interesting perspective. And you kind of alluded to this just then when you got your rn, so this is a kind of a multi-part question, but you began your post high school education at Carteret Community College. Is that correct?
Correct.
Okay. And then you have since done a a lot more as your lifelong learner for your education, and you have rounded it out at such programs and schools as Vanderbilt and Johns Hopkins. So tell us [00:27:00] about the foundation that Carteret Community College gave you. And how others can find opportunities by starting with their local community college.
Because I know there's a huge push for community college, um, now, which I'm 100% behind for a multitude of reasons. But I just wanna hear your experience 'cause that's where you started and it really was the foundation for an amazing career and further educational opportunities.
absolutely. I, I would encourage.
anyone to start out at a community college, because it is the, it is the foundation. I was able to, do all my, you know, electives and, um, the prerequisites for, for the programs at, more a cost effective, manner. And then, the community college, which I started, there as. For in the LPN program is where I started [00:28:00] and.
The smaller classrooms, the more, community based, being able to go to the hospital and you're engaging in the community. So you become, you become part of the community when you start in a community college. And then you have all those people, all those resources that you can call on to help you once you start climbing that ladder.
So I feel like. Community college is definitely the foundation that helped to, to build me and to help me, to grow me into the person that I am because they helped me, helped to build that confidence for me.
That is fantastic. Yeah, and I didn't even really think about the. Connections because when you're doing that in your own community and then you're gonna work in that community mm-hmm.
You really are going ahead and building your network right then.
Absolutely.
Yeah. That is, that is fantastic. So I've got [00:29:00] one last question if you could give your younger self any kind of life advice or tips, what would it have been or what would it be?
believe in yourself.
keep showing up even when the times are hard. I think I've alluded to that before, that that's where the growth is. When things are uncomfortable, that's where the growth is. build something you're proud of. Um, it's not luck. It's the work you put into it, even doing the small things, those become the really big things.
Um, and that's how you build a life, um, that you don't need a vacation from.
I love that. A life you don't need a vacation from. That's perfect. Mm-hmm. That is really, really good. This has been so inspirational. I'm just so all by all of your accomplishments and then your heart at the center of it all with, with being a caregiver.
It's truly, truly, um, inspirational and [00:30:00] moving and our community and hospital is, is so fortunate to have you and, and your leadership there and I appreciate your time today.
Oh, thank you so much for having me. And, and again, it's a team effort. It's, you know, it's, I couldn't have done it without so many supportive people and, and I call on 'em every day.
So, um, I really appreciate this community that I live in. Um, it is an amazing community.
It is, it is. Well, thank you again. I hope you have a great afternoon.
Thank you. You too.
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