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Welcome to "Bean There, Done That!" your essential podcast for mastering the world of hospitality. Hosted by industry expert, Phillip Di Bella, we cut through the noise to deliver straightforward, actionable insights and strategies.
Each episode explores the powerful interplay of knowledge and connections, presenting real-life case studies from Australia's thriving hospitality scene. We feature thought leaders who share their experiences, ensuring you have the answers you need when facing a business challenge.
Whether you're a budding cafe owner or a seasoned hospitality professional, "Bean There, Done That!" is your hub for insights, inspiration, and industry connections. We're here to help you turn hurdles into opportunities for growth and success.
Join our growing community with the hashtags #BeanThereDoneThat, #HospitalityHub, #CafeInsights, and #CoffeeCommune. With "Bean There and Done That," your roadmap to hospitality success is just a listen away.
BTDT EP18 Kelly Maniatis Master GC
[00:00:00] You are listening to Bean There, Done That. We present some of the smartest people connected to the business of coffee. People who have succeeded in the tough grind of hospitality by staying ahead of the rest. So join us as we [00:00:20] explore the secrets to their success and help you accelerate your business.
This show is brought to you by The Coffee Commune, where the coffee community comes to collaborate. Enjoy the show.
Hi, you're listening to Phil Di Bella and this is another episode of Bean There, [00:00:40] Done That. And today we're talking all things about workplace psychology. I have one of my favorite people in the world, Kelly Maniatis, joining me from Leftfield Co. Kelly has over 20 years experience in workplace psychology.
She's worked with organizations like Aldi. She's worked with organizations like Brisbane Airport Corporation, but she's also worked with public companies, governments. She's worked with Di Bella [00:01:00] Coffee when I had Di Bella Coffee. She works with Coffee Commune. She does amazing stuff. And she also owns her own.
Retail business in being superior fruit with her husband, Peter, where it's all in the hospitality industry. So we've got a very special guest today in the terms of Kelly, who really understands the importance of workplace psychology. Her website is leftfieldco. com. au so you can [00:01:20] find out more about her there.
But we're going to explore some amazing topics today all around how to get the best out of ourselves as leaders, but how to get the best out of our workers. So without further ado, I introduced you to Kelly Maniatis from Leftfield Co.
Glad to be here. Well, it's always a pleasure
to have you. We've done plenty of stuff together over the years and you've obviously coached our teams at Dabella Coffee.
You're doing the same [00:01:40] thing with the Coffee Commune. You're a member of the Coffee Commune and you've been on the show before. Because of your experience in organizational psychology. Uh, so welcome back. What I do want to talk to you today about, but is obviously times have changed. Um, if you think about, we probably did this 12 months ago, and if you just look at back at 12 months to now, things have changed again, and I [00:02:00] call it the engine room, which is our brains.
You know, it should be evolving every day and learning something new. Unfortunately, not everyone's in does that. But what I want to talk about today is the importance of workplace psychology and what we can do to, to get better performance out of not just ourselves, but out of the people within our organizations.
Are you up for it?
Yes. I'm always up for it. [00:02:20]
Well, it's your, your area of expertise. So if you're not up for it,
we're in
Right? And uh, listeners don't want to sit here and listen to me all day either. But um, okay. So if I said to you first, when you hear the words workplace psychology, what does it mean to you as an expert?
So workplace psychology means to me understanding how to get the best out of people [00:02:40] in a work setting. Um, of course psychology is broader than that. It is life and work and they do interplay, but workplace psychology is the business of understanding how to get the best out of people. Backed by science, backed by evidence, backed by data.
So we're not just guessing, we're not [00:03:00] figuring out as we go, this is actually advice or guidance that's saying this is how people perform at their best.
Yeah, and I like that because we all have that expectation of having people perform at their best, listeners that have bought cafes or listeners that are thinking of buying cafes or people that have got teams in general.
We always say that we want the best people in our organizations, but are [00:03:20] we equipped? Do we have the skills to do that? And that's obviously what you specialize in. And one of the reasons why we're, we're recording this podcast on being there, done that, because one thing that really resonates and I'll set the scene with this is that most cafe owners are buying a cafe because there might be a good barista, a good chef, or they come from another industry that have done well, and they think they want to switch industries and own a business.[00:03:40]
But that doesn't mean that that's going to make you a good boss. That doesn't mean that you're going to know how to lead people. It doesn't mean that you're automatically going to get the best out of your people. And especially in the hospitality industry where leading people has changed so much. So today we want to extrapolate a little bit about what has changed and obviously using my experience and being at the cold front, but then using [00:04:00] your experience and expertise on some strategies and suggestions and making people aware of how they can get better out of their teams.
Let's start with this Kelly and it's one thing that I've been talking of late is. You know, let's get out of this word. We manage things, but we lead people. And I want the listeners to be very clear about that. You don't manage people, you manage things, but we lead people. So let's get in that right [00:04:20] mindset from day dot is to understand that people are not there to be managed.
They're there to be led and yet leadership is all about getting trust and all the rest of it. So tell me, what are the common pitfalls that people make as leaders? And it's not just people that own businesses, it's people that lead people. What are the common pitfalls and mistakes that leaders make? When it comes to [00:04:40] people,
you've hit the nail on the head.
When we look at leaders who are making the mistake, that they're focusing too much on managing the task, managing the process, the system, the policy, not necessarily understanding that the humanity behind how to lead people. So the number one [00:05:00] mistake I find is that leaders are so concentrated on wanting to get an outcome.
Out of an individual without realizing what are the levers? How do humans like to rise up and deliver really good work for you and for your customers? There are some absolute fundamental human [00:05:20] things, I guess, that we do. That make people want to perform for you, make people want to engage with you, make people want to go up and beyond for that customer service experience.
And what we see is, let's say in the cafe owner situation, if a leader wants to manage it by task, what they will do is put a company policy. [00:05:40] On how to get the best out of another customer, or they'll rely on processes and systems or even technology like a POS system to drive sales without realizing that when you're leading people, it's about the conversations that you're having.
How do I get the best out of you to get a [00:06:00] transaction, if that makes sense? It's really. One of the fundamental mistakes that I see in leadership is that they rely too much on the policy and the process and not actually understanding how to engage people to get the right results.
And of course you need your policies, you need your process and technology.
Kelly also has a family business with her husband. So she's got a very, [00:06:20] very lot of experience in hospitality, having seen her parents own businesses and growing up in that. Just so the listeners understand, it's not just a psychology expertise and obviously qualification and profession, but you've been around hospitality all your life and you own a business with your husband.
So Kelly's talking from experience. You know, you have to have policies, you have to have processes. There is technology, and they are important. But the most [00:06:40] important person, correct me if I'm wrong what you're saying, is the person. So we normally put the policy, the process, or the system in, but we don't then train the person or engage with the person.
What people are doing is they want to lead through the process. So you can't lead through the process. You can speak to the process. You can realign people to the process. You can engage people into the [00:07:00] process. But to lead people, you can't just whack them over the stick and say, you've got to do this.
We've implemented a lot of new changes in the business that we have in the retail space that we have had. And it is system changes and process changes and all that kind of thing. So we haven't walked away from that, but it is not the way that we're [00:07:20] leading our people to give excellent customer service or to be really good teammates either.
So it's really about how we engage our people and through conversation.
Yeah. So there'll be a lot of listeners here, obviously they'll go, well, yep, I get it. And that's great. But I train my staff or I spend a lot of time building them up and we're working in a transient [00:07:40] environment, right? Where we say the average staff member is six to 12 months in the cafe and restaurant.
So if you've got a transient environment, what are some of the strategies you can use to keep staff, or at least whilst you've got them, have them engage in performing for you?
I think that's a really important point for cafes, that this turnover of staff and [00:08:00] transient and transient workforces, look, we're in the same boat in the business that we've had, but we've had our casual staff last up to two to three years.
So what is it that has helped us keep our casual staff and they stick with us? A couple of things is, um, You know, realizing that [00:08:20] they need to have a bit of freedom and autonomy to do the work that they need to do within boundaries and guidelines. I think what we tend to do really well is we buffer and we're very aware of people's emotions and how we engage with people and dial it down [00:08:40] really quickly.
I think. One of the keys for anyone that's in a leadership space in an environment like a cafe, a restaurant or retail, the number one thing is everyone's on display.
Yeah.
So if you're in a bad mood as a leader and you walk into your space in a bad mood, it is just [00:09:00] vibrating. It's toxic. Creates a toxicity.
Look, in corporate settings, you can get away with some bad leadership behaviors because people can walk away from an office space or go to a different meeting room or have someone else to talk to. In a retail setting, in a cafe setting or a restaurant setting, you're so [00:09:20] close to everything. You cannot get away with that.
Bad behaviors for yourself as a leader. So I think one of the things that we've done really well, Peter and I in running our business and keeping people is we keep a really safe environment where if we need to raise an issue, we raise it, but we do it in a way without the [00:09:40] emotional time. And I'll tell you what, that's hard.
It is. Cause you got customers coming at you or suppliers coming up and wanting to speak to you. I mean, it's just chaotic. And I've set it to. Peter and I, we have to sit down often and talk through, um, you know, at the end of the day, evaluate how that day went with our staff. [00:10:00] And we talk a lot about our stuff.
It's like our children, which is a whole nother level, but we walk through each of our staff members and talk through how are they feeling? How are they going? Because we really care about and lead our people. So we put it, that's front and center, just like we would put. Look at our profit and loss. We [00:10:20] also have our staff as what's going well and what's not going well.
So
it's a
focus point. Absolutely. And some of the things that we talk about is trying to identify where are the roadblocks and obstacles for why this person is feeling the way that they're feeling.
So
I think the number one thing that I feel CAFE Owners in this space, [00:10:40] their job as a leader is to remove any obstacles or barriers for people to perform because in retail settings or cafe settings, it is sometimes the littlest things that improve someone's performance.
I'm talking about. The way that they're standing and how they're, they're leaning over and [00:11:00] grabbing a piece of that product. I am constantly looking at how my staff working in this space and I've changed things. Like I talk to my chef cause we've got a commercial kitchen. And we've reset things so that his job design is smooth.
And that's the psychology of it, right? It's the
psychology. And we talk [00:11:20] about that because you're in a industry that's all about the body, not only about the mind. So we really look at maintaining a resiliency there.
Yeah. So the key takeaways for me is make people a key strategy. Not just your P and L and all the rest of it, it's ongoing, it's daily assessing your people in your [00:11:40] business, making sure that you're working to the benefit of their benefit, because if they're comfortable, if they're resilient, if they're focused and they're psychologically safe, then they're going to perform better because understanding that what you're looking for is you want your team members to.
Emotionally engaged. That's what I take out of all that in summary. And then they
give to their customers. Correct.
Which in turn [00:12:00] affects your P& L, either profitably or not. Absolutely. Depending on what you're doing. And let me tell you, for the listeners out there who haven't heard Kelly Maniartis before, Kelly's not just an expert in organizational psychology, obviously comes from hospitality background as well, but she's worked with organizations like Audi, which are really mastering in on their people and how many movements.
She's done stuff with Brisbane Airport Corporation. Uh, she's worked [00:12:20] with many groups, small and very, very big across the country. She's worked in both corporate, private ownership, public sector, and in small business. So for the listeners out there, Kelly Maniatis is an expert. Her company's name is Left Field Co.
That's it. Obviously all those details will be on the summary of the podcast. You can see that and get in contact with Kelly directly, but great point to add there, [00:12:40] her areas of expertise do not come from a textbook that was written 30 years ago, which is what we don't do here at Bean There, Done That. We bring to you people like yourself.
With loads of wisdom. Okay. So we've got the front and center of people. We've got people as a strategy. And what I mean, people as a strategy is we care about our people. I always say that my people are more important than my customers. Just like the bait is more important than the fish you want to [00:13:00] catch without bait.
You don't catch fish without good people. You don't get good customers. We've done all that. And the people listening say, yeah, but why should I do all this when they're only going to stay six months? And I think it's Tom O'Toole, um, from Beechworth Bakery, O'Toole is the sale name, but I remember his answer and I'll, and I'll segue with that, his answer was, but what about if I don't do it and they stay?
What about [00:13:20] if I don't coach my people and they stay and they don't look after my customers? Your take, Kelly, what should we be doing no matter how long they stay?
Absolutely. Because you're in the practice of leadership, so look, there's a multitude of reasons why people come and go. And what you're trying to nail down is making sure that there is nothing [00:13:40] left on the table that's about you that makes sense.
So you know, people leave, you can't control people, but what you need to be evaluating regardless of how. People come and go is that you're still practicing leadership and that when the new person comes on you've already know the skills. You induct [00:14:00] them really well, you engage them in the culture. You do all those things, you hire well, so you're practicing leadership that never goes away.
The person might go, but you still need people.
Yes.
So you need to be constantly asking, is that a regrettable loss? Have they left [00:14:20] on terms that I could have controlled? Then fix it. If there are things that you can't control, well, that's life. I wish I could have a magic wand and give it to you to keep people to stay.
People go on their free will. What's really exciting is if people go and they come back. So we've had one staff member went and has come [00:14:40] back. He's been with us for now six years. First stint, 18 months, went and came back. Stayed another five and he's still with us. So He needed to go, but he needed to go, he needed to experience and look, cafe owners, you're going to have a certain percentage of generation, so [00:15:00] let them have the experience and they're going to come back.
I think you've got to be really. Aware that it's just leadership practice. I get it though, like I've lost people and it frustrates me because I think, Oh my God, I've got to go through this again. I've got to go through the recruitment. But when I'm thinking like that, I'm thinking like I'm [00:15:20] managing things.
I'm not thinking like I'm leading people. And you've got
to get back to that leading of people and learn from it. So the only thing I'd add to that Kylie is. That obviously with my background, strategy, branding, marketing, is that if you do get everything right and you do learn from them and you, the key question there is what you said is, are they leaving because of me or are they leaving because of them?
And if they're leaving because of [00:15:40] them, then that person's going to go away and talk highly about you.
Absolutely. You
know, and everybody is your brand ambassador. And that's what I say. If we're doing things to the best of our ability and get it as right as we can, whether they stay six months or six years.
They leave for whatever reason, it's a positive experience. They're going to go out there and tell people about what's happened. We had a similar scenario at my first ever employee that [00:16:00] worked for me at Dabella coffee, I caught up with him a few years ago and he said, boss, I had to leave to experience something different.
But what I didn't know is that my first job would be my best job. You know, now he owns his own business and we're so proud of him, right? But he made that comment. And I mean, that to me is a classic example of sums up of everything that you just said. Don't change your processes and systems because people leave [00:16:20] you within six months.
Change it because you need to, if you're the problem, you know, because we're going to understand that you brought up a beautiful, beautiful word that everyone loves is the next generation. Uh, so we're operating in the world of millennials. Let's explore the millennials a little bit more. So most people in our industry, uh, not just cafes, restaurant, but the hospitality in general are employing millennials, right?
And Gen [00:16:40] X. What's your tip around dealing with Millennials and Gen X because they are different. And I don't mean different in a bad way. It's just different. It's different times, different resources. My kids have different resources to what I had. I've got different resources to what my parents had.
That's life. So, you know, just quantifying that, that's not a bad thing. So let's not whinge about it. Let's understand it. With [00:17:00] your experience, let me and the listeners understand more about dealing with Millennials and Gen X. Yeah,
the next generations.
Well, Gen Y, I think it is. Gen Y, and
I think we're also talking Gen Zs.
My children, I think, are Generation Alpha. First off, why the generational differences? Because they grew up differently. So if you think about in the last 10 years or [00:17:20] 15 years. How they're growing up and how they're entering into the workplace economically. They probably live with their parents. They've had, they've
got air conditioning, they've got brand new cars, they've got multiple TVs.
It's a pretty good life that we live in. We're also living in the Australian context. So there's some cultural differences there too. So what I've found that's been successful [00:17:40] is engaging with people to help solve the problem. I feel like once you've. Open up and talk to your people and say, look, we've got a problem.
We want more profitability or we want more customers in the door. I have found that I'm going to give a positive to it. The next generation, uh, more assertive, [00:18:00] more want to contribute. They want to collaborate. They want to feel like they're making a difference. They don't want to be told.
That's one thing.
They don't particularly like authority. So let's explore what's the positive of that. That means that they want to. So one of the things that we've done at the shop [00:18:20] is say, look, we've got these particular areas that we want to improve or increase. What do you think? And giving them some ownership and some autonomy and some empowerment.
Also people need variety more these days. So in the fruit shop game. Not to be putting down on people, but the old [00:18:40] style fruit row, they're very comfortable waking up at two o'clock in the morning, going to the markets, setting up the shop and just from two till six o'clock at night, like just that routine eyes kind of working.
We can't find those people. It is not in our shop. But you don't need
to anymore either. [00:19:00] No one wants to go to a fruit shop at five in the morning anymore. Yeah.
The shift. In our casual and permanent makeup is because the excuse could be, we can't find anyone. Well, actually the people that are there are different, so they want variety.
They want challenge and autonomy. They want to feel like they're adding [00:19:20] value. So we do simple things like even with rostering, handing over some of the rostering. These are the terms we need.
You fill out the rosters, you guys work it out. And
then you figure it out. Trust me as owners, it's, you know, we want to have.
That's traditional managing things, not leading people. So we've actually handed over [00:19:40] rosters. We give a master, this is what we would like. If you want to swap it around, you know, there's penalty rates. There's things. So be aware there's some rules. We don't want huge amounts of overtime. That's the processes and systems.
Here's a process and system, but let it go. So the key takeaway. Is share problems [00:20:00] and solve problems together.
Don't dictate.
Figure out some autonomy because these kids have grown up, like the schooling system is so different. You know, they choose their assignments, they choose their topics. They have great argumentative texts and things like that.
So they're pretty prepared. [00:20:20] They don't like authority.
Now you raised some good points and that's something a lot of the um, business owners are a lot older and need to understand that it has changed. I mean, and times change, like you use the fruit shop analogy in cafes. Cafes used to open at six in the morning and would close at nighttime, whereas cafes now open at six and probably close at 12 or two or at three.
There's not many cafes that'll stay [00:20:40] open past three o'clock because you used to go to a cafe for your breakfast. Cafe for your lunch and at night time they turn into more of a bistro. That's all change and that change is good. Change changes. Change becomes a problem when people's mindset and the psychological habits or processes and strategies don't change with the times.
And that's a key fundamental and why we've obviously brought Kelly Maniartis onto the [00:21:00] show. I've been there, done that. It's to share that experience about leading people, not managing. Remember that you're managing things, leading people. Tell me repetitive workplaces. You did a lot of this work with, with Audi, I remember in our industry.
And you made the comment before that with your staff at the Superior Fruit, you guys change a lot of their habits around. You change your jobs because it [00:21:20] is repetitive. So some tips and tricks. Let's explore the mindset of that from a psychological point of view, the importance of making sure that. So like even baristas, that the burst is not.
six hours behind a machine. The wait staff's not six hours washing dishes or taking food out. Talk us through the psychology of that.
So that background, it came really early in my career where I did a lot of work in what's called human [00:21:40] factors psychology. So what that's saying is what are the factors that contribute to someone doing their work?
They're not machines. So We talk about, if you look at workers comp and things like that, yeah, we deteriorate. So we do need to look at multitasking. So all of our team have a multitasking [00:22:00] aspect to them. They've got a main job, you know, we've got
primary responsibility,
someone on the till, but But then they can go out the back or they can go and swap it around.
And again, it leads back to autonomy that the team can talk amongst themselves to say, Hey, can we swap it out? So being aware, um, looking at the design, [00:22:20] we so concentrating on the design of a space to make it look pretty, but we're not looking at the human functionality of things like with baristas, how they're sitting in the same spot.
People can't do that day in, day out. So I think you've got to be aware of those aspects as well.
Yeah. If you're tying that autonomy and fundamentals and making sure that you are making [00:22:40] it a bit more exciting. Remember Fish, it's still apparently the number one customer service program in the world, Steve London.
And I got to meet Steve and do some work with him. Actually, he wrote a draft book on myself many, many years ago, but we'd never published it, but, um, he's a great man and he produced the world renowned Fish program and I think it's relevant to this day where it's, Choose your attitude before you come to work.
[00:23:00] Be present when you're at work, present with your colleagues, present with your team, present with your customers. Yep. Uh, have fun. Yeah. And I'm going to explore that one in a minute. And make the customer's day. Yeah. And I think that for those listening, if you want to explore phish further, you can research it and Google it, but they're the four fundamentals.
Choose your attitude when you come to work and you'll see that all four of them. I've got to do with psychology and mindset. [00:23:20] Choose your attitude, be present, have fun, and make a customer's day. Now, let's explore the have fun. How important is fun in the workplace, Kelly?
100%. Well, it's an outcome of a good culture, having fun.
You know, you talked a little bit earlier before about the routinized thing. To [00:23:40] counteract that is having fun and finding great purpose and great energy in some of the most mundane things as well. So having fun is a sense of humor is great. And having a laugh, I can get a feel from the place just by the laughter factor.
And that is a very much an undertone of how well that works. environment is [00:24:00] going. Who doesn't want to work in a fun workplace? But how does it
impact our human brain too, like from a psychology point of view? Oh my
gosh, it releases all the right stuff to see, you know, things like seeing a problem as not a problem and seeing the solution, it opens up your mind to not be so tunneled focused and so negative in your thinking.
It, it sort of, it creates a release of [00:24:20] tension.
It
can dial down a very tense moment into something really. leveled out, there is a skill in being able to provide a sense of humor that can dial down emotion. So you perhaps have to train on that because I know some people use a sense of humor and they're actually sarcastic,
or the
other [00:24:40] just hitting a line where, so humor is basically if you're not getting the right reaction, you're doing it wrong.
So just be aware of that. It's not about them. It's how you've done it. Yeah, fun is, uh, is, that's the ultimate that you come to work, enjoy the day and come home.
And it's been proven, right, that staff stay [00:25:00] longer when they find a fun environment. And it's, it's still safe to say that people don't leave jobs, they leave managers.
So for those listening that you're leading people, it doesn't matter if you're leading one or leading thousands. You've got to create that safe space. You've got to create the vision for people. You've got to ask more questions. You've got to involve them in the process, but you've also got to remember to have some fun.
And that's something that, you know, over the years from [00:25:20] my experience, going from a team of one, a startup to over 130 odd staff and at one stage, 400 staff across different businesses. We had to have some fun and we did. We drank good wine and we ate good food and we all enjoyed a dance and karaoke. Some can sing, some can't, I especially can't.
We definitely have some fun and, and it's important because we're fortunate enough to be in the hospitality. Yeah. [00:25:40] And to the listeners out there, and I know that a lot of doing it tough and a lot of them have done it tough for many years. We've just got to still remember to keep that growth mindset, the open mind and have some fun and, and don't miss an opportunity to, to have some fun because it is important part of the business.
Kelly, uh, what sort of tools and templates that you find that are useful out there for the listeners that can tap [00:26:00] into? Well, some of the resources that you really admire in this space.
Yeah, well, I actually wanted to give some tips, actually. Yeah, go for it. So, for me, you know, right at the beginning you said, what's workplace psychology?
If I look at workplace for a moment, It changes for me, depending on who I'm advising. So the workplace is [00:26:20] different in this environment in cafe, retail, or restaurants, then, then the corporate environment. So I want to give you a couple of tips that are designed for this environment, because I mentioned before your, Leading on display, which means you can't necessarily book in a meeting and say, [00:26:40] let's have a one on one conversation because you don't know how the day is going to turn out.
So you cannot plan. So here's a couple of things I want you to think about as you're leading and bring it into the workplace. First skill that I think leaders need to have in this setting is an ability to see something and to address it and say what you need to say. So [00:27:00] if you say something good. Praise it.
If you see something that's not right, raise it. Don't wait until it gets too much. And raise it
as positive as you can.
Absolutely. If you see something that's not right, then teach it or train it or guide it. You have to be [00:27:20] masters of addressing things pretty clearly. Quickly, daily and not let it sit because you don't have the opportunity to address it again.
When you're in close quarters, if we see someone not pulling their weight and you as a leader just let it slide, let it slide, let it slide and let other team members in that cafe setting take over, it [00:27:40] is just going to build up resentment and people want to leave.
Yeah.
So I think it's really important for leaders in this setting to be very, very aware that you have to see something and respond, not react, but respond in that moment.
That takes a lot of skill set, which means you as a leader have to have the mindset of being aware [00:28:00] that one of your roles is to be a leader. A leader, not just being on the tools, being on the coffee machines or washing the dishes. You need to be quite aware of what's going on with your team. And if something needs to be addressed, you've got to raise it quickly, but you're on display.
So if you see, you're not going to be ranting and raging and doing anything [00:28:20] that's going to cause an impact of the environment of the team and the customers as well. So I think just wanted to raise that that's something different versus maybe some other workplaces where Preparation might be critical in some places, whereas this environment, I think.
Yeah. Just being very, very aware and addressing it.
Yeah. And obviously another one is [00:28:40] the importance of hiring people, you know, hire slow and fire quick. Right. And I don't mean that in a derogatory term, but people hire too quick because they sort of get desperate. My hiring strategy always is hire when you don't need somebody.
We've just offered a new role now to somebody who won't start for three months, but we're doing it now because we don't need that person, which gave us the opportunity to plan out their job. Plan out the skill set, [00:29:00] but more importantly, plan out the values that we need and the, the attitude of the person that we need.
And I think as um, business owners sometimes, especially at the cold front cafes and restaurants, we hire too quickly often because we're desperate and we need it. And it is a fine line because I understand we've got to keep costs down and all the rest of it. If you're in that position, then you've got to adopt what Kelly's saying.
Is, you know, we've got a see it, say it [00:29:20] attitude. Um, we see it, we say it, but you pick your timing. It's always in a positive respect. My style is always from the outside in. So I walk into a cafe, I did it yesterday when we walked into the cafe section and I went over to the supervisor and I said, Oh, when you walk in the door, what's the first thing you see?
And they said, Oh, the mats are dirty. I said, perfect.
And
that's all I had to say. Walk in this morning, the mats [00:29:40] are perfect.
That's it. Because it's a slippery slope. If you don't address it, all of a sudden it becomes the way that we do things here. It becomes a lot harder then to have a conversation with someone if you've let it slip.
So
as leaders, please take that on board. Because I see a couple of not right behaviors. [00:30:00] One is sitting on it, stewing on it, it only hurts you. Or overreacting to something.
Which is a big one in our industry. Yeah.
And it's sort of like, hold on, go back to the, why have I got so many people leaving? Do you want to be ranted and raved at?
No. And customers
don't want to see that. So if you're one of these people that, you know, [00:30:20] are abusing your staff or your, you might not even think you are, but just watch your behavior because customers are very perceptive and they're watching and they do not want to hear leaders speaking down to people and the rest of it, quite the opposite.
Yeah. It's an opportunity to actually show your leadership style. I always point out the good stuff because then that gives me the trust in the person that the person trusts me to point [00:30:40] out the negative stuff as well. But of course, I'm always, and they know this about me, is I'm harder on myself than I am on anyone else.
Because if you're one of these people that are always externalizing but never internalizing in terms of working on yourself. Then you're not going to build that trust.
And that leads to the, the resources is investing in yourself and your leadership.
So if people want to do that, how [00:31:00] do they get ahold of you, Kelly?
Yes. Tell them a bit more. You've got an exciting project with this book that you've been working on. Let's talk a little bit more about that. People have said, yep, right. I'm listening to this. I need to do some more work on me. I'm going to work on my team. How can they get ahold of you and what's the resource coming that you'll be able to help them with?
Yes.
So thank you, Phil, for promoting these. So obviously. The details being Leftfield [00:31:20] Co is where you can get an engagement with me. There are some free tools and templates on the website that you can quickly down, so leftfield
co com. Au
com au. There's some great tools and techniques, some templates that I have found worked really, really well in any setting.
So that's an easy fix, and also I've got some free eBooks on that website as well, so you can have a [00:31:40] look and see that. I know that I'm in, I think September, I'm coming up and doing a session, an emerging leaders session here at the Coffee Commune, which is centered on the leadership difference, which is the book that I'm currently finalizing and writing, which is, you tapped into it before, the leadership difference is leading people, not managing.
Tasks and to stop managing those tasks. [00:32:00] And in that is very practical tools and techniques, which I have found over the 25 years of being a psychologist and working with a number of fantastic leaders, but also some pretty not average leaders I could think of. Clearly see the difference between those leaders that were able to get the best out of their people [00:32:20] versus leaders that, I don't know, just couldn't get it together.
It was all about them, not about the team. And so I started to analyze, looking at all those case studies, what are the key differences? And that's what the book explores.
Yeah, it's fantastic. And I said, we've worked with you closely over the years, and especially when we went through big growth at Debella is the time that I needed that resource around me.
Yeah.
[00:32:40] So listeners remember that, that some people, sometimes we say, Oh, we don't have time anymore. I'm too busy. Well, that's the time you actually need to be doing the work because that's when we find ourselves at most stressed or our minds playing dirty games on us and telling us pulling us in one direction when we should be going the other.
So it's always about having good people around you. It's one thing that we believe in at the coffee commune is to surround yourself with a good community. [00:33:00] And that's obviously half of what the business stands for. The other half is a facility. The other half is a community. And you know, with being there, done that we get to bring great people on board, like Kelly, many artists from left field co and talk about all things that help you accelerate your potential.
Uh, so if you've been listening to this and enjoying it, please jump onto her website, leftfieldco. com. au. The, we [00:33:20] will have it in the summary section of this. There are some templates and eBooks there for free that Kelly, um, has put up there to help people. Um, I know that she's driven by helping people be the best versions of themselves.
She's coming up in one of our Emerging Leaders Breakfast, so stay tuned for that. And her book should be releasing later this year as well, The Leadership Difference. So Kelly, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your time.
[00:33:40] Thank you. I've always enjoyed having conversation chats with you on this topic.
I'm going to leave
you on this. You're going to leave us on this. Okay. And, um, tell us two things that are positive that make a great leader in all your years of experience. The two things that, well, two things, it's now three, it's up to you, that stand out the most. That we can leave these listeners with going, Oh, hang on a minute, [00:34:00] you know, it could be a bit of a self assessment tool or it could be a bit of a benchmarking.
What are two, three things that really stand out, you know, keywords or values that stand out that really separate the pack when talking about great leadership versus very ordinary leadership.
First thing that jumps into my mind, I think of really great leaders is [00:34:20] authenticity and that service to lead actually getting that, like actually understanding that their job is to lead.
And doing it with such authenticity and care. So there's a care factor, but on the other side of it. I see great leaders have clarity, confidence, and a direction to [00:34:40] it's not all just soft. So that's what I explore in the leadership differences. The art of doing two things, being supportive and caring and directive and clear, and actually not doing one or the other, but both in tandem in an authentic way.
You've
summarized it beautifully listeners, some great key [00:35:00] takeaways, especially there right at the end. Have a think about that, explore further and remember that it's always about tomorrow being better than today. We never stop working on ourselves. The environment around us never stops. People's needs change, their values change, their wants change.
And if you want to be a great leader, we need to be current. Kelly, thank you once again. Until next time, you've been listening to Phil Di Bella and Kelly Miniatis. This has Bean There [00:35:20] and Done That, where we've explored the importance of workplace psychology. Till next time, be the best you can be.
That's a wrap for today. Keep listening for more episodes of Been There and Done That. The Coffee Commune is here to help accelerate your potential. We want you to be better tomorrow than today. Until next time, you've been [00:35:40] listening, Phil Di Bella. I'm the founder and managing director of the Coffee Commune, a place where the coffee community comes to [00:36:00] collaborate.