Inspired Living with Autoimmunity

Inspired Living with Autoimmunity Trailer Bonus Episode 144 Season 1

Jamie Hartman: Critical Diet and Lifestyle Modifications for Autoimmune Wellness

Jamie Hartman: Critical Diet and Lifestyle Modifications for Autoimmune WellnessJamie Hartman: Critical Diet and Lifestyle Modifications for Autoimmune Wellness

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In this episode I was joined by Jamie Hartman, a pioneer in the field of autoimmune wellness. She shared her personal journey with Crohn's disease and how she transformed her health through the autoimmune protocol (AIP).

We delved into the evolution of the AIP diet, including the traditional approach and the new, less restrictive modified plan. We also touched on the importance of lifestyle factors in managing autoimmune conditions and debunked some common myths surrounding AIP.

For the complete show notes and transcripts visit inspiredliving.show/144

Creators & Guests

Host
Julie Michelson

What is Inspired Living with Autoimmunity?

The podcast for high achievers who want to stay sharp, focused and full of energy despite their diagnoses. Those who know there has got to be something better than simply accepting decline.

Hosted by Julie Michelson, a National Board Certified Functional Medicine Health Coach who used to suffer from crippling Rheumatoid Arthritis until she learned the tools and strategies to take her power back from autoimmunity.

In this podcast, Julie brings you interviews with thought leaders in the Functional Health and Wellness space. You will get actionable recommendations to Take Your Power Back and catapult your health. No fluff, just concrete, useful steps to improve your health!

the key pillars that we want to
look at are the same, I think,

across all practices, and that
is that you need to be sleeping.

Managing your stress to the
degree that you can, have

connection with other people.

So having that sense of being part
of a community connection with

nature is very, very healing as well.

If you are continually in an indoor
environment, you're not getting

any, exposure to the natural world.

And then movement is
also an important one.

I think that's important to bring
up because people in our society

really have internalized the message
that like exercise is always good

for you and you must do more of it.

And that is not always the case,
especially if you have an autoimmune

disease, especially if you have an
autoimmune disease that you've been

diagnosed with at a later point in
your life, and you are still trying to

exercise the way that you had before.

Jamie, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me, Julie.

I am so excited for our conversation.

I, you know, I just had said to you before
I hit record in my head, I thought we

already had recorded this conversation.

So it's, it's, um, I'm just really
genuinely thrilled about some of the new

things going on with AIP, um, and, and
really educating the public about that.

But first and foremost, Can you
share a bit of your journey with us?

Um, because you are, or I
would consider a pioneer in the

field of autoimmune wellness.

And, and I think it's important for
listeners to, to learn about you.

Yeah, thanks, Julie.

Um, my story, like so many of us
starts with my own health challenges.

I have Crohn's disease.

I was diagnosed when I was just 19 and
I honestly coped with that diagnosis

simply by trying to compartmentalize
it into one slot in my life that I had.

didn't affect the rest of them.

Um, if I got through the day
and hadn't embarrassed myself,

I considered it a success.

And that was really the end of it.

Um, and that worked mostly ignoring it
for, uh, about a decade, give or take

until it just stopped working completely.

And I had to have surgery from the
scar tissue that had developed over

the many years of ignoring my symptoms.

Um, and After that surgery, there
were some complications and I

had a very difficult time kind of
coming back to baseline for that.

And after a few more years after
that, I finally realized I needed

to try to acknowledge my symptoms
in a way that incorporated maybe

some lifestyle and some diet pieces.

So I did some research, eventually
stumbled upon Um, a diet called the

Specific Carbohydrate Diet, SCD.

I'm sure you're familiar with it, probably
some of your listeners are as well.

Some are, yeah.

And it helped quite a bit, although
I found that it, it seemed to kind

of impact my, my mental health
a lot and started, you know,

continuing to look for other options.

And again, stumbling along in the internet
at that time, I found my way to what

people were calling an autoimmune paleo
or an autoimmune Protocol approach.

Switched things to that and immediately
started to see even more improvement.

And I think at that point, I
thought I had it all figured out.

Food is the answer.

That's it.

That's what I'm going to
do for the rest of my life.

I'm going to actually make it my career.

I changed jobs.

I went back to school.

I became a nutritional
therapy practitioner.

And then I launched a business, uh,
helping people to do the same thing.

An interesting part of that though, is
that it was actually when I changed jobs

and changed my lifestyle and started to,
I went from a job where I had very little

control over my work environment and I was
traveling a lot and didn't get consistent

sleep and had a lot of stress to one
where I was working from home, working for

myself, doing something I really loved.

Going to bed on a reasonable
time every night, waking up in

the same place every morning.

That's when I actually saw my healing jump
to an even more, uh, even higher level.

And so at that point I realized,
yeah, at that point I realized,

okay, I was onto something when I
thought, oh, food is the answer.

I've got it all figured out, but I
didn't even know how good I could feel

until I made these lifestyle changes,
which brings us all kind of to full

circle that, um, I realize now that.

Food is very important.

My lifestyle was probably An even bigger
factor for me, and that many of the things

that I went through as I was trying to
figure out what to do with my diet and

make all these big changes and eliminate
tons of foods, you know, the lifestyle

pieces needed to be managed as well, and
it might have been an easier process for

me if somehow I had known to adjust those.

earlier on, which is a huge part of
what I do when I work with people.

So that's my story in a nutshell.

Which is amazing.

Um, because yeah, you, you already brought
up in your own journey, one of my biggest

concerns slash pet peeves with sometimes
the preconceived notion about AIP.

Um, you know, people think it's just
food, and we're going to talk about

the food piece for sure, because, um,
I think the, the new plan is, is really

important for people to understand that
it sometimes you don't have to go full AIP

and, and, um, really customizing and, and
following the modified AIP can get great

results as we've seen in the studies.

Um, and we'll, we'll get into that piece,
but I, I love that, um, you need to

bring up because people are so resistant.

They're like, just tell me what to eat.

And I'm like, Oh, we'll get to that later.

Um, yeah, so it's, I love that.

That was your experience
almost accidentally.

Right.

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's huge.

It's really huge.

Um, it, I can't even, you know, for
anybody listening, if you've been

just focused on food, this isn't
a really important conversation.

Although we're going to
talk about food as well.

Um, let's, in case there, you
know, I'm sure there are listeners

that don't even know what AIP is.

Um, So let's, let's start there
kind of, and then I really want

to dig into the modified plant.

Yeah.

So AIP, uh, stands for, depending on
how you, how you describe it, either

autoimmune paleo or autoimmune protocol.

I tend to, uh, default to using
the term autoimmune protocol,

but I want to acknowledge that
the origin of it does come from.

The so called paleo diet during that
era when that was kind of the new and

different way of thinking about how we
might eat, eat more like our ancestors

cut out the industrial foods cut out
the, you know, the post agricultural

era foods, and just eat whole foods.

Mostly vegetables and meats
and fish and eliminating grains

and many of those things.

So, um, that's where it started.

And it is an outgrowth of that recognizing
that, well, that might, there's a

paradigm, a way of eating that was helpful
for people wanting to lose weight to,

you know, improve their body composition
and to, um, maybe improve their health

and feel better with some additional.

Attention paid to additional eliminations
at that time was the focus primarily.

It could also be very helpful for
people with autoimmune disease.

And so at the time that, that it
originated amongst many different

people, there's really no one
person who has the, you know, the

absolute credit for creating it.

Um, you know, the focus very much was
on what foods do we need to cut out?

It must work because we're cutting
out foods, but I think that even

early on, there was an awareness that.

When you're cutting out foods and
you're still needing to eat, what you're

eating, what is left is probably what's,

well,

you know, possibly what's driving the
healing as much as what you're avoiding.

And so it's important to acknowledge
that it does come from that

place of kind of restriction.

And so the original AIP said
to follow that paleo paradigm,

which would be no grains, no
legumes, and no dairy, no sugar.

What else am I missing?

Um, I think that's pretty much it.

Seeing vegetables, not seeds.

Yeah.

And then on top of that, the autoimmune
element of it would say cut out nuts

and seeds and, um, nightshades and eggs.

Those were the, the additional
eliminations that were prescribed.

And so many of us who started out
using that early on, like myself,

you know, we were very focused on
the, you know, the elimination.

Right.

What are we avoiding?

Yeah, right.

Yep.

And, um, and there wasn't really a
lot of understanding at that time

too, because it's so new as to like,
well, how long do you need to do this?

Is this the way you need to
eat for the rest of your life?

Um, you know, if you reintroduce foods,
are you setting yourself up to have a

flare up of your disease at some point?

Are you going to harm your health?

You know, we didn't we
really didn't know yet.

And so research had to be done
and people had to have, you know,

experience using it in their practice.

And we started to understand more
and more about what really Needs to

be, um, addressed in here and what
maybe doesn't so the, you know,

the, the original protocol starts
there and then reintroductions were

always meant to be a part of it.

But again, I think early on, we
didn't quite know, like, whether

that was a good idea or not.

And sure to evolve on that.

Yeah.

And as somebody who has experienced
healing, um, uh, it's the reintroductions

are the most important part, by the way.

Mm-Hmm.

, um, , you know that, I know that.

I just wanna share that.

I know that now.

But we didn't know that.

Well, we didn't.

And as somebody going through, you
know, who kind of self-created her own

elimination, way back when, as I, you
know, I hadn't heard of a IP, um, or.

Yeah.

Any of the things I know now, once
you are feeling well, you know, there

there's part, part of you were saying,
you know, is it a good idea or not?

But when you're feeling well,
you're afraid to rock the boat.

Um, and so, yeah, or, and
maybe, you know, you do one

reintroduction that doesn't go well.

You're like, Oh, forget it.

I'll just, Stay super, super
restricted for the rest of my life.

And that's not always ideal either.

So, um, and I, I do think I, I too tend
to use the word protocol, um, or sometimes

I'll even use paleo and protocol, but, um,
Because of the importance of the lifestyle

stuff, you know, that this is not a diet.

This is not a, um, and that I love that
you brought up the reintroductions because

I think I meet a lot of people that
are, they stay in the elimination phase.

for years.

And they, they think that that's
what there should be doing.

So I thank you for, for
touching on that part for us.

I want to touch on the studies because
for me, um, you know, working in

functional medicine, it's a funny thing.

There aren't a lot of Studies.

And so there's resistance, right?

The whole point is we want to bridge.

Like I want everybody who goes to a
GI doctor with the kinds of issues

you were having for the, I want those
doctors to talk about food or even just

ask, you know, what are you eating?

Do you sleep?

You know, crazy stuff.

Um, and, and so it's, it's
tough to bridge without studies.

So let's talk a little bit about
the studies that have gone on in

the past few years, because for
me, that's been really exciting.

I know it works.

I see it all the time.

Um, but, but it's nice to be able
to, to show people, you know, okay,

you wanted a scientific study.

Here you go.

Yeah, there, there, there have been
some studies done what's exciting about

the studies, and I can tell you that,
you know, and tell your listeners that

they've been done in a couple specific
diseases because you have to have some

kind of criteria for like who's going
to be in your study group, you know, so

the first one was an IBD focused study
so Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis,

and then the second one that we have
consulted on was one with people who had

a diagnosis of Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Okay.

so much.

But that said, because people
often know, well, is it going

to work for my condition?

You know, we, we haven't studied
every single condition out there.

True.

But we can extrapolate a lot from that.

And in these studies, what has been
done is that the, the, um, study

participants were not just given the diet.

They weren't just told, here's your list
of foods, or here are your meals prepared

for you, or, you know, any of that.

It was, Let's gradually transition
your diet from wherever you are

currently and, and provide you with
a lot of support along the way.

So they were, they were working with a
coach, qualified AIP, certified coach,

and medical professionals along the way.

And each week they were
instructed to examine their

current diet and remove and add.

You know, remove an ad every single
week and the beautiful thing about that

was that the end results showed us when
they started doing testing along the way

throughout that process that they were
the people that were going to see results.

We're already seeing it before they'd
even completed that full elimination,

which tells us that the intuition a
lot of us had earlier that we didn't

need to be this restricted was correct.

Yeah, which is so exciting, right?

Because then if you, I do have
a lot of clients who come in

and they just want to jump.

To full elimination.

Um, and a few years ago, you know,
it was, I was feeling them out

for what works better for them.

Right.

And now I really do encourage
people to work towards so that, you

know, they're not avoiding stuff.

They don't have to be avoiding.

Um, and I just, I think it's so fun.

I want to just second what you
said about, you know, these studies

were for particular because that's
how you have to do with study.

And you know, and I know from working
with all kinds of autoimmunity that

the approach, like you said, if it's
going to work, is going to work, you

know, regardless of diagnosis, because
the diagnosis is, I don't want to

say doesn't matter in that sense,
you know, but, But it's the same.

The process is the same.

It's just how is it
showing up in the body?

And so, um, healing, you
know, healing is healing.

Uh, I love, I love that.

So let's talk about the difference.

We're less restrictive now.

If you choose to do the modified
plan, um, what are the big foods then?

What are, what are, you know,
what's included on the, or excluded,

I guess, on the modified plan.

Yeah.

Yes.

So again, Think about what you're, what
a person's going to eat when they're

following AIP, whether they're doing
the original one that, you know, I

started out in or the modified protocol
is going to be a lot of variety of

vegetables, fruits, healthy meats, fish,
you know, these are still going to be

the core of what they're going to eat.

Hopefully be filling their plate
and their meals with because

that's where we know they're going
to get lots of healing power.

What are you going to exclude
during the elimination phase?

And again, remembering, even before
I start to describe this for all

your listeners, that this is still
temporary, you know, we're still

going to have reintroductions at
some point here, but phase to start

the elimination phase, which we're
following the modified AIP plan.

You're going to be
eliminating the cereal grains.

So that's going to eliminate anything
that contains gluten, but also the

other grains like corn and oats.

And there's one exception in there.

If you feel like you are going to do
well with rice, maybe somebody who

has higher energy needs, or it's a
culturally important food for them.

We know that rice is really pretty
low in terms of that reactivity

scale, so they could include rice.

But other than that, all the
big cereal grains are going

to be excluded to start with.

Also dairy, so that whole category of
dairy would be excluded to start with.

One exception there would be that
if somebody felt like they would

do well, again, if it's culturally
important to them, perhaps they

could use ghee as part of one of
their healthy fats that they include.

That's an option.

You could decide one way or the other
on that, see how your body does with it.

And then you're going
to exclude nightshades.

Um, that's a category of vegetables
and fruits that, um, is pretty broad

and it includes the big ones that most
people eat in their diet are tomatoes,

potatoes, peppers, also eggplants.

Ashwagandha is a nightshade and that's
an interesting one for people who work

in functional medicine because a lot
of folks, you know, are taking it as

a supplement and when you're going to
do the AIP protocol, you want to be

looking for an alternative to that.

If you didn't, if your practitioner
didn't think that the benefit

of it outweighed the potential
reactive potential for reactivity

to it, and then common allergens.

So with that category we would
exclude soy, we would exclude nuts,

we would exclude peanuts and eggs.

So that leaves somebody still to be
able to consume the big difference

between the modified AIP and the AIP,
the AIP classic, we're calling it core

AIP now, is going to be one of the
biggest areas are going to be legumes.

So in, if you're following the
modified AIP, you would still be

encouraged to consume those good
gut heal, gut, you know, fiber rich

foods like, um, lentils, chickpeas.

other legumes that can be really
helpful for budget reasons as

well as providing some nutrients
that are much needed for people.

And also seeds are no longer excluded.

Yeah.

Seeds are the other big category that's
not, not excluded in, in the modified

AIP, but is excluded in the core AIP.

And that opens up the door now for people
who get really excited to hear this news.

They've heard about AIP before,
and they said, I can't do that

because it says I have to give up.

My coffee and my chocolate.

Yeah, coffee, chocolate, pepper.

Which we've always historically
excluded because those are seeds.

People think of them as
seeds, but they actually are.

Right.

Well, our understanding now that we've
learned over the years of using this

and the research is that those are
not big immune triggers for people.

And so there might be other reasons that
you would avoid or eliminate or reduce

your coffee or your chocolate intake,
but not because they're seeds anymore.

Right.

So it becomes much more personalized.

Yeah, which is, which is wonderful
because I love, you know, it is true.

Don't mess with people's coffee,
you know, if, if you're a coffee

drinker, um, but coffee is one of
those things that is always worth

experimenting with for different reasons.

Like you said, not, not necessarily an
immune trigger, but, but definitely can.

Can be troublesome for people, even
if they don't want to admit it.

So, um, but often if you're moving to
even modified AIP, if you're somebody who

drinks your coffee light and sweet, we're
going to mess with your coffee anyway.

So

yes, we are.

And so you may want to pause the
coffee, but, but now you're, you're

in the driver's seat a little bit
more, which is, which is lovely.

I think, um, I don't know.

It really, I, anything we can do.

The empowerment and, and really
just learning to listen to our

body, I think is, is important.

With that being said, how, how
does one determine like, okay, Do

you know, should I do modified?

Should I do classic?

Should I start modified?

If that's not working, move on.

Like what is your approach that
you're sharing with people?

Yeah.

For the vast majority of
people, the modified AIP.

Protocol is the place to start.

Okay.

Um, that, that really is what our
best practices and our evidence and

our understanding of the research is
saying that for the vast majority of

people, that's the place to start.

Obviously, if you have known food
allergies or sensitivities, You

continue to avoid those things that
should go without saying, but I

think it's worth saying, you know,
again, because it's important.

Um, and, and then the, the guidance is
the same that, you know, you're going

to plan on following the elimination
phase for a minimum of 30 days.

If you start feeling better even
sooner, that's great, but we still

like you to stick it out for 30 days
so you're going to get that really

kind of optimal feeling of wellness.

And you might extend that out to
perhaps up to 90 days before you

start thinking about reintroductions.

And reintroductions begin when you
are starting to see some measurable

improvement in your symptoms.

Yeah,

not if you not waiting until you never
have a bad day till it's perfect until

you have zero symptoms and everything's
perfect and you're in complete remission

because let's like let's be honest
that's not really life you know there

are other factors involved in life
but once you're feeling like things

are in the right direction measurable
improvement in your symptoms it's now

time to start thinking about type Testing
some of those excluded foods because

you don't need to avoid all of them
forever in order to feel your best.

Wait, say that one more time.

Yeah, you

don't.

You

really don't.

I promise we're both here with
personal and professional experience.

It doesn't need to be lifelong.

And what about the people that, that
Which I think will lead perfectly, you

know, kind of circle back to my pet peeve.

Um, the, the people that are
like, I have done, you know,

classic full AIP elimination.

I've been doing it for two years and
I really still don't feel better.

Yeah.

What are they missing?

Something, something else is,
is going on and what it could

be is a huge array of things.

It may be diet related.

It may be that you're,
you're missing something.

You know, there's some deficiency in your
diet, but it also very likely could be

some kind of a lifestyle factor, you know,
where you're, you know, we want to make

sure we're paying attention to those.

The, the key pillars that we want
to look at are the same, I think,

across all practices, and that
is that you need to be sleeping.

You need to be You know, managing your
stress to the degree that you can, um, you

need to have connection with other people.

So having that sense of being part
of a community connection with

nature is very, very healing as well.

If you are continually in an indoor
environment, you're not getting any,

you know, exposure to the natural world.

That.

Maybe hindering your progress.

And then movement is
also an important one.

I think that's important to bring
up because people in our society

really have internalized the message
that like exercise is always good

for you and you must do more of it.

And that is not always the case,
especially if you have an autoimmune

disease, especially if you have an
autoimmune disease that you've been

diagnosed with at a later point in
your life, and you are still trying to

exercise the way that you had before.

That was me.

Although.

Not even later in life.

I was early 30s, but it was,
and I see this, I'm sure you

see this all the time too.

It's like, it's the one, I'm not
going to give this piece up to my

disease, my diagnosis, my whatever,
um, and not realizing that we

are just driving inflammation by
overexercising with autoimmunity.

I mean, it's a, it's
a, it's really common.

It is.

Yeah.

It's something I see a lot in my practice
because I do get a lot of those people

like you just described to come to
me and say, I've been doing AIP for

two years and I'm not feeling better.

And I heard you're the expert
on AIP and I want you to tell me

what else do I need to eliminate?

Yeah.

I'm a triathlete and AIP is not working.

It's like, yeah.

Yeah.

So there are, there are definitely, you
know, A lot of other things to look at.

And then, of course, I don't want
to exclude also the possibility that

there could be something that needs
some medical attention, whether

it's from a conventional doctor
or a functional medicine doctor or

some other kind of practitioner,
you know, we, we can't neglect to

consider that that is part of it.

It is important to, to
use all those tools.

Um, you know, I talked about my
story briefly and how I, you know,

try to ignore my symptoms and I,
um, you know, didn't ignore them.

And then I, the, another piece of
that is that I had medical care

and I had to find the medication
that worked the best for me.

Um, having no medication didn't
work medication without any diet.

And lifestyle attention didn't work.

Um, and I needed to have the
right medication and the right

attention to diet and lifestyle.

So yeah, that's important
to to acknowledge.

It is so important.

And it's never I mean, we didn't, uh,
We've been saying it in all kinds of

different ways, but it's never one thing.

It's not just diet.

Um, I, I have a, a client that actually
with, uh, ulcerative colitis who, you

know, his doctors told him, which is true.

Not the way they meant it.

But it's true.

Um, you didn't eat your
way into this disease.

You're not going to eat your way
out of this disease to a point.

Yes.

You know, I'm like, you know, no,
the food isn't what caught, you know,

isn't here's the one cause, right?

It's not.

Gluten is not, um, it's a piece of the
puzzle and, and we're whole humans.

And so, um, and circling back to that,
that's why I use the word protocol

because we, you know, we need optimized
sleep on consistent schedules.

We need the right movement.

Not sitting on the couch all day and not
over exercising and driving inflammation.

Um, you know, we need
to be managing toxins.

We like, we need all of that.

Um, and, and, you know, so I love
that you brought up, you know,

don't discount medical support.

Um, it's part of it.

This is all, it's all part of it.

Um, and the relationships, I mean,
the, the, What went on, you know, in

the early 2020s, um, you know, is it
just drove numbers, you know, people

were disconnected, people weren't,
you know, hugging and touching and,

and, um, and so it is, it's all
really, really important though.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, just to add on
to the point about everything being

important, it's also important to
remember that what your vision of success

with your health is is going to vary.

And so many people come into something
like AIP, thinking that there's like one

clear outcome that they're aiming for, and
that might be full remission, or it might

be getting off all their medications.

And, and that is it is potentially
what's going to happen, perhaps.

Right.

But the real question to ask yourself
is, you know, what is it for?

What is the purpose of this?

What is your, what is your
best health going to give you?

And why do you want it so badly?

Keep that in mind and accept that it's
not going to be like a perfect, like,

it's not like going to your doctor
and getting a perfect report card.

That's not success.

Right.

That's just.

They're gonna watch it and be all excited.

And it's because it's their view
of it, successes that you're doing,

the things in your life that you
want, whatever that might mean.

Yeah.

I'd love that.

You said that because that is what you
need to know your why for healing anyway.

Um, and I love that you mentioned
people come to me all the time, and

they'll hear my story and they're like,
I want to, I want to get off my meds.

And I'm like, hum.

Wait, don't you want
life to be bigger again?

Don't you, you know, don't you want to
feel well, like, let's, let's start there.

And then like you said, yeah, often
that's what happens as we heal.

Right.

But, but to me, that's not the target
or, um, I know I I've interviewed

people who think, you know, um, I take
thyroid hormone and I'm, Happy to do.

You know, I, I, my
antibodies are, are normal.

Everything is great.

But yeah, I take a little
a, a little, um, thyroid.

Thyroid glandular.

Well, I mean, and to me,
that's not a failure.

That doesn't mean I haven't
healed . It just means, okay.

So that part, like I still needed that
little bit of help and oh my gosh.

I will fight you in an alley
for my thyroid hormone.

Like I'll give you my
wallet, but you're not taking

my

thyroid.

So I mean, you think about it, if you
had lost like the function and like,

say your right foot, you know, for some
reason, like it wasn't working, like how

your thyroid's not working perfectly.

Right.

Would you like say it's only success
if I can, Move without crutches, right?

No, it's not.

Yeah.

You know, you know, you
would use the crutches.

You would be excited that
you have some way to get

around.

We'd celebrate it that you have a way
to experience life and move around.

And it's the same thing.

If you have had a medical condition
develop, um, and it there's medication

that treats it, that will help
you have a greater life, right?

Then that's, It's something that's valid
to use, and it is certainly not a sign of

failure or success one way or the other.

No.

Whether you're using it or not.

That, right.

And so I love the, the, the, I think
that's an amazing place for people

to start is to, and I know you do
that when you work with people.

I do that when I work with people,
but for anybody listening, even if

you're not working with anybody, really
take some time and what's your why?

Start there because
that's going to help you.

That's going to give you that motivation
to continue whatever path, whether it's

modified AIP, whatever it is that you're
going to decide to go after for healing.

Um, cause there are hard days and
like you said, it's not magic where,

okay, I'm avoiding these foods
and I'm, I'm eating more veggies

and, and bringing in good things.

And, you know, I had three good
days and then a bad day again,

like healing is not linear.

It never is.

Yeah.

And it does.

So I think it's so important to consider
your motivators and if you are somebody

who would have, maybe a few minutes ago,
check the box of, well, if my doctors

told me I no longer had whatever, um,
reconsider about like your day to day,

what, what is it that you really want?

I love that.

Um, we probably already touched on it,
but I just want to, I, I, I've mentioned,

I have some, you know, pet peeves
about AIP perception out in the public.

What is it that you would like either
for people to know or for, or for

people to let go of that they think
is, you know, AIP in their mind?

Yeah, I think there's so many and we
have touched on a lot of them, I think

the course of our conversation, I think
the biggest one that comes to my mind

right away is this idea that you have
to be absolutely perfect or why bother?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I, I really think there's a,
that's a persuasive myth out there.

Um, and it's true, you really
can't have like a cheat day on AIP

and expect it to be very helpful.

You can't do it six days a

week.

Yeah.

I mean, if, if every, every few
days or once a week, you're exposing

yourself to something that is
triggering your autoimmune disease.

That's going to be a problem,
but that is not the same thing

as just living your life.

And you don't have to be 100
percent perfect at all times

for this to be beneficial.

If you have a slip up, something
goes wrong, you don't have to

think about it as starting over.

You didn't undo all the good
work that you did before.

It's it has tremendous healing power.

When you keep it in perspective,
I think that the impact of beating

yourself up for slip ups or having so
much stress and anxiety about being

perfect all the time is going to negate.

the benefit that you would get from
having a calmer attitude about it

and giving yourself some grace.

That's tremendously important as well.

I love that.

Um, a grace is a word.

I didn't really, wasn't part of my
everyday vocabulary until I started

coaching specifically autoimmune clients.

Um, because I, I feel like it's,
It's, it's part of it and not, not,

I'm not even just talking about
AIP, I'm talking about life when we

don't give ourselves grace in life,
ourselves grace in life, um, we end up.

So,

yeah, it's so common.

I think when we're thinking about
an autoimmune disease too, because

we've been told autoimmune diseases,
your body attacking itself, right?

Yeah.

And so we're already feeling like
it's our fault or our body's fault,

you know, and that's, it's not
a really very helpful paradigm.

I think it's much better to
think of it in, in terms of your

immune system has, is misfiring.

Right.

Your, your immune system's
trying to protect you.

It's always trying to protect you.

Yeah.

But there's a communication mistake.

It's like, it's like calling,
you know, for help calling 9 1 1.

And, and they sent everything that
they need when all you really needed

was, you know, some assistance.

You didn't need the firefighter
to start the fire, knock down the

wall and do all that kind of stuff.

But it was a miscommunication.

And that's what's happening
with our immune system when

we have an autoimmune disease.

So our body's trying to help you.

It's not attacking.

It's trying to help.

It's just miscommunicating.

I love that.

I, I usually, um, I'll say, you know,
it's like the troops are exhausted.

They're just not very precise.

Um, but it's, it's, it is difficult in
the beginning, at least, especially the

way people are, I don't even want to use
the word educated, the things that they're

told if they're typically when they're
diagnosed, even still, I mean, I mean,

still now it's really common for somebody
with ulcerative colitis or Crohn's.

to be told it doesn't matter what you eat.

Um, you know, so there is, there's,
there's, we still have some work to do.

We'll continue having these conversations.

Um, but your symptoms really,
really are communication.

And we should, you know,
we don't want to listen.

We ignore the aches and pains.

We ignore the fact that we may
have to run to the bathroom.

You know, we ignore the fact that I
have one client who just normalized that

she would not leave the house until 11
o'clock in the morning because she knew.

She shouldn't.

Um, and that just became like her.

Okay.

Part of her routine.

Um, and, and, and so instead of
listening as in, Oh, my body's

giving me information, you know,
we, we ignore, ignore until then we

have the miscommunication going on.

Um, so I like that word.

There's a lot of grace in that
word, miscommunication, you know?

Yeah.

Cause you don't blame anybody
for For miscommunication, if it

was honest, you know, I didn't
understand what you were saying.

Yeah, we, we, we forgive that.

We accept that.

So yeah, that's your body as well.

I love that.

Oh, so amazing.

I have like 852 other questions for you.

Um, but I will honor your time
and listeners time as well.

So I'm going to ask my wrap up question,
which is, and you can answer, it may,

doesn't even have to be AIP related.

What is one step that listeners
can take, because you already gave

us so many good ones, starting
today, to improve their health?

Oh, wow.

That's really, I think the first thing
they can do today is get outside.

Ah, yes.

Just get in, you know, people
will call it anything's officially

call it grounding, but you don't
have to think of it that way.

Just somehow get your feet,
your hands on the earth.

I love it.

If it's, if the weather is not
really all that conducive to it.

You can make that time in nature
very brief, or you can maybe find

a way to bring it in or just look
at a picture if you have to, but

find some connection to nature.

It's very healing, very powerful.

I'm so glad you said that.

That's like, I know, I knew
whatever you were going to say

was going to be impactful, but I
love that you pulled that one in.

I literally ran in right before we, we
hopped on camera to, you know, cause I

was standing outside barefoot because.

I could so love that love that I was,
I was, we had just planted our garden

last week, which might've been a gamble.

It was a week, two weeks early,
but so I was tending barefoot.

So love it.

Amazing.

Jamie, for people listening on the go,
like I do, and they may not be willing

to click those show notes, where is
the best place for people to find you?

Well, you can find information about me
personally at my website, gutsy by nature.

That was the blog that I started way
back at the beginning of that story, when

I first decided to change my diet and
start keeping track of what I was eating.

And then you can also find me and all
the things that I'm doing with the other

AIP certified coaches at AIP Summit.

And that's a great place to start.

If you're AIP curious
at all, check it out.

And I have to throw this one out there
for, for people because there's always

a transition when, you know, when
we're entertaining the idea of, of, you

know, okay, am I going to do the AIP
elimination, whether it's modified, um,

I always, just like you were talking
about bringing in the good foods

as you're taking out the foods that
you need to be temporarily avoiding.

I always tell people, you
know, find new recipes.

Jamie has amazing recipes.

So go to gutsy by nature as well.

And then also go to AIP summit because
there's just so much information on there.

Um, I'm blessed to be
part of that community.

It's, it's really making an impact.

So I just think we're blessed

to have you, Julie.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for all of the
amazing gold that you gave us today.

And I cannot encourage people enough
to dig in if you have, if you're

AIP curious, Jamie's your, your
go to, so check out those sites.

Thank you, Julie.

For everyone listening, remember you
can get those transcripts and show

notes by visiting inspiredliving.

show.

I hope you had a great time and
enjoyed this episode as much as I did.

I'll see you next week.