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Your weekly dose of drug facts while dispelling fiction
Unknown Speaker 0:00
This is a Kun V studios original program. The content of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 jazz and more the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.
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Box Welcome back to the chemical collective. The chemical collective offers you your weekly dose of Drug Facts while dispelling fiction. Today, we'll be discussing a fascinating and unusual drug. Salvia. Dave Norum, I'm April Contreras, and I'm Missy Bothwell.
Unknown Speaker 0:44
So to kick things off, let's talk about what exactly salvia divinorum is. Salvia divinorum is a plant that comes from the mint family, and it's actually native to the Sierra masiteca region of Mexico. And the salva divinorum plant is a really tall, bushy herb with these large, oval shaped green leaves that have kind of a serrated edge around them. And it's typically found in humid, shaded cloud forests of Mexico with square shaped stems and small white or purple flowers. But these flowers are actually rarely seen, yeah, and the Mazatec people have used it for centuries in spiritual and healing ceremonies, but it was first documented by Western researchers in 1962
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when the famed ethnobotanist R Gordon was son and chemist Albert Hoffman, encountered the plant during their studies of indigenous spiritual practices in Oaxaca, Mexico, The Mazatec people had been using the plant in shamanic rituals for centuries, but it wasn't until Wasson and Hoffman's exploration that the broader scientific community became aware of salvia is unique properties, and unlike other plants or substances that are typically thought to or referred to as psychedelics, salvia actually operates very differently, both at the chemical and experiential levels. Yeah, so salvia use is not some new trend, as we were hinting at. We're going to talk more about salvia cultural roots. And like we mentioned before, salvia has really deep cultural roots, especially with the Mazatec people in Mexico, like Misty mentioned, and for centuries, they've really used salvia in their religious and healing ceremonies. And during these ceremonies, the shaman, or healer known as a coronaru, would chew these leaves or prepare them as a tea, and then they would use the visions or altered states produced by the salvia to diagnose illness or receive guidance from the spirit world. And this is important because traditionally, the use of salvia was very different from how people typically consume it today. So instead of the intense, rapid effects that happened when it smoked, the mozitek method of chewing the leaves led to a much more gradual, milder experience, the goal wasn't necessarily to have mind blowing visions, but to commune with the plant in a spiritual way.
Unknown Speaker 3:07
Yeah, and I kind of had an aha moment when I realized that, you know, salvia was a tool for divination, because the name divinorum means of the seers, and divination refers to the practice of seeking knowledge or insight through spiritual means, often to predict the future or gain some sort of guidance from a higher power. And in the case of salvia divinorum, indigenous shamans use the plant in ceremonies to connect with these exact spiritual realms and communicate with spirits to receive visions or answers to questions about health, live decisions or the future, yeah. So they'd use it for various medical conditions, like April was saying, like for diarrhea, headaches, and as a treatment for people near death, it was believed to ease the transition, yeah. And so let's talk a little bit about how salvia works. So we mentioned that salvia works through a different chemical mechanism when compared to different psychedelics. So could you explain that a little more? Missy, yeah, so most classical psychedelics triggered altered states of consciousness by activating the serotonergic system. It's specifically thought to be through the five HT to a receptor which is linked with mood, perception and cognition. In contrast, the active ingredient of salvia, you can think of it like that called salvinoran A it actually activates the Kappa opioid receptor, which leads to dissociative and sometimes dysphoric effects. It doesn't directly influence the serotonin pathway, so the Kappa opioid receptor is one of three main types of opioid receptors in the body. The other two are the mu and delta opioid receptors. So while most people are more familiar with mu opioid receptors because they think of the targets of drugs like morphine and fentanyl, which work on mu opioid receptors, cap.
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Opioid receptors are very different in how they function. Activating kappa opioid receptors is known to produce feelings of dysphoria, dissociation and also altered perception, which is why salvo Nourse A's effects can feel so strange and overwhelming. Yeah, and I thought this was kind of interesting when I was doing some reading on this, and I really had to get my head wrapped around the fact that activation of this kappa opioid receptor causes a very different experience when compared to other psychedelics. So when salve Nourse activates the Kappa opioid receptor, it really disrupts normal communication between parts of the brain that process sensory information and awareness of the self. And there's this awesome paper by a group Hernandez Alvarado at all, which kind of tease out this, if anybody's interested in reading further. And so essentially, the brain's ability to maintain a cohesive sense of reality starts to break down upon activation of this receptor. And so that's why people using salvia often report this really intense feeling of being detached from their bodies, like they're merging with objects or becoming part of their environment. And it's a really unique kind of dissociation, unlike what you'd get with serotonin based psychedelics like psilocybin, which you know, tend to enhance more emotional or visual experiences. Yeah, in this receptor, the Kappa opioid kappa opioid receptor, it's also linked to feelings of unease or dysphoria, like I was saying. So the Kappa opioid system plays a key role in how the brain processes stress in mood. So when it's activated, it can then lead to feelings of anxiety, detachment and discomfort, which is different from what you think of when you think of the mu opioid receptor, because when it's activated, it typically produces the pleasurable pain relieving effects, effects that people associate with opioids. So this is why salvia trips can be unsettling for so many users. The effects are less about feeling good, and more about this strange dissociative experience. And because this profound dissociation is why users often feel like they've left their bodies or are being pulled into another dimension. People describe it as being stretched, or they even feel like they're merging with objects, which is very different than how psychedelics work. Usually they're associated with enhancing your connection to the world, and salvia sounds a lot like the opposite of that, making you feel disconnected from it. And again, as April was saying, this all goes back to how the Kappa opioid receptor alters the brain's integration of sensory information,
Unknown Speaker 7:39
and besides dissociation and mood changes. Kappa opioid receptor activation is also involved in the modulation of pain. So the body has natural opioids called endogenous opioids, and this includes dynorphins, and these bind to kappa opioid receptors to help regulate pain. And interestingly, this has led researchers to investigate whether drugs targeting the Kappa opioid receptor could be developed as non addictive pain killers, and that's especially critical in the context of opioid crisis. And so the idea is that kappa opioid receptors don't produce the euphoria that comes with activation of those mu opioid receptors that Missy mentioned, so that leads to putative, less potential for abuse. However, the challenge in managing the dysphoria and dissociative effects that come with kappa opioid receptor activation remains right. So let's, let's get a little bit more into the effects. What happens when someone takes salvia? How long do the effects last? So something that I kind of pulled apart in reading all these different trip reports is that salvia is really known for being unpredictable. So the effects vary widely depending on the person, the dose and the actual method of ingestion. So when it's smoked, the onset is extremely rapid within 30 seconds to a minute, and the experience itself lasts about five to 15 minutes, though it can feel much, much longer for the person under its influence, yeah, and the effects are often described as very disoriented. People feel like they've completely left this reality. There are reports of users experiencing alternate dimensions, meeting strange beings, or feeling like they're part of an object or a different environment. It's not the fun type of hallucinogen for most people, yeah, fun with
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quotation marks
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and yeah. So people often report intense visual distortions along with a loss of body control and a complete shift in their perception of time. And you might experience things like time loops or moments where you think you've been transported to another place entirely. And some users even feel like there are multiple people at once or not themselves anymore. And to make another comparison with psychedelics, the.
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Visuals from the salvia experience are also reported to be very different. So instead of vibrant, colorful patterns or visions, salvia users often report strange geometric distortions, and again, a feeling of being in an alternate reality. And that detachment can be really unsettling for some users. So as a comparison with psilocybin, there's usually an emotional or introspective component that people describe as enlightening. But with salvia, the dissociation can feel really confusing or even frightening. Yeah. So the salvia experience is obviously very intense. I want to talk more about how the Method of Consumption affects the experience. Yeah. So the most common method of use today is smoking concentrated extracts, and that's where the you get the most intense effects, like being pulled out of your body or into an alternate reality. And so smoking leads to a very rapid onset, with the experience hitting pretty hard within seconds. And again, this is in contrast to how they were traditionally consumed by the Mazatec people, which would produce a much gentler, long, lasting effect by chewing rather than smoking. So chewing allows the Salvin, or in a to absorb through the mouths mucous membranes, leading to a slower onset around 10 to 20 minutes. And then the experiment, experience can last up to an hour. So while both methods lead to altered states of consciousness, chewing it results more in what you would think of as meditative or introspective compared to the often overwhelming experience of smoking salvia. And again, people who smoke it for the first time, they often report just being taken aback by how intense it is,
Unknown Speaker 11:43
all right, so we kind of have given a general overview of what salvia is, what it does, but I want to talk a little bit more about any potential risks or dangers with salvia. So while salvia is generally considered physically safe and non addictive, the psychological effects can be overwhelming, and because the experience is so intense, people can feel pretty panicked or confused. And since salvia temporarily removes your connection to reality, I guess some accidents could happen if someone isn't in a safe setting. Yeah, so you can imagine that one of the biggest risks in taking salvia is being an environment that's not controlled, so people have hurt themselves well under its influence, because they lose their sense of space and time. This is why it's crucial to be in a comfortable, safe space. We always talk about set and setting, and ideally being alongside someone sober who can guide you through the experience. And it's also important to note that some people experience something called a salvia flashback. So after using salvia, they might have very brief, unexpected re experiences of the intense Association weeks or even months later. And those these, though, these flashbacks are rare, they can be very disorienting. So to take a little bit of a turn, do you think that the short duration of salvias effects could make it useful for clinical applications, maybe in therapy? Yeah, I think that's a pretty good question, especially in the context of trying to develop more personalized therapies for a ton of psychiatric and mental health disorders. So on one hand, the fact that the experience is so brief, 10 to 15 minutes, makes it more manageable, maybe for some people, compared to substances like LSD or psilocybin, which have experiences that can last for hours. So in a therapeutic sense, I guess that would be seen as an advantage, because it allows for shorter sessions, less time in the clinic. But on the other hand, the intensity of those few minutes can be really overwhelming that people might not have time to process what's happening until it's over, which makes something called integration, helping people make sense of their experience really important after the fact. So therapists would have to be well versed in guiding patients through such an abrupt and intense experience. Okay, got it so it might be better, because it's a short experience compared to other psychedelics that last hours, but super overwhelming, short experience. So maybe not the best we'd have to figure out in what context that would be therapeutic. Do you want to talk about if there are any long term effects of using salvia? Well, so far, there's actually not a lot of evidence to suggest that salvia has any major long term effects, at least not physically. There's kind of a paucity of research on this. It doesn't appear to be addictive, and it doesn't seem to have the same risks as other substances like alcohol or opioids, right? But that being said, there's still a lot we don't know. So salvia hasn't been studies that studied as extensively as other psychedelic compounds. So it's just still really hard to say what the long term effects might be, especially with frequent use or even poly drug use, some users are sport lingering psychological effects and feeling disconnected from reality or experiencing those salvia flashbacks weeks or.
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And months after using salvia. And while these reports are rare, again, this really just highlights the importance of using salvia cautiously and with respect for the plant's power. Yeah, so there's not a lot of research on salvia, so I want to talk about the future of salvia research, because there's definitely growing interest in in salvia, especially in the field of neuroscience, salvia divinorum has been explored for potential therapeutic use due to its unique pharmacology. As we said, it doesn't work on the serotonergic system, which most classical psychedelics do.
Unknown Speaker 15:35
Its active compound salvinorin A is a potent and selective kappa opioid receptor agonist, as we were saying. So it's an agonist. It activates this receptor and modulating it has been linked to mood regulation, pain relief and dissociative states, like we were saying. So these properties make it a subject of interest in research on mood disorders, addiction and even chronic pain management, yeah. But as we mentioned, the dissociative effects can make it a tricky candidate for therapeutic use. So with more research, it is possible that we could learn more about how to utilize the beneficial effects or aspects of salvia while minimizing the more challenging parts of the experience. And when I hear that something is a hallucinogen or it induces a trip, I automatically wonder if it induces plasticity. Did you read into that at all? Yeah. So one of the first questions I had after learning about this was, pretty much, how does it not work on the serotonergic system but still be able to induce plasticity? So kind of, what I found in my little research is that the ability for salvia divinorum to induce neuroplasticity is way less understood compared to classical psychedelics like psilocybin or LSD, which are known to act on the serotonin subtype 5h, two, two, a receptor and promote plasticity. And some studies suggest that kappa opioid receptor activation can also affect synaptic plasticity indirectly by modeling stress and by modulating stress and anxiety related pathways, which could potentially lead to long term changes in neural circuits associated with mood and reward. However, the direct induction of plasticity through structural or functional changes in neurons or brain cells, akin to what is observed with five is two way ago, agonists or ligands that activate the two a receptor has not been conclusively demonstrated with Salvin or an A, okay, good to know. One other thing I've been wondering about is, since salvia effects are so intense, how researchers ensure the safety of their participants when conducting studies on it? Well, safety is definitely a top priority in any clinical study, including salvia, and researchers typically use low doses and carefully control the setting to minimize anxiety or panic reactions. Participants are closely monitored by medical staff, and studies are designed to ensure that the psychological effects were off quickly. Given salvia short duration. It's still a highly experimental field, so rigorous safety protocols are essential to protect participants, and in research studies, typically there, they extract it directly from salve Nourse, salvia divinorum plant. So to get into how it's typically prepared for research purposes, they do extract it, as the compound is naturally abundant in the leaves. However, synthetic versions of Salvador and a are also produced in laboratories, especially when researchers want to create analogs, so modified versions of the compound, or when they need highly pure samples for controlled experiments, the extraction method is often preferred for studying the naturally occurring compound, but synthesis is valuable for producing variations of Salvador and a to better understand its effects in potential therapeutic applications. So both methods, both extraction and synthesis, they play a crucial role in research, depending on the specific goals of the study.
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Okay, so so far, we've covered salvia chemistry, its effects and potential therapeutic uses. But Missy, what about its place in modern culture? Yeah, it definitely has a unique place in modern culture, though it's not as well known as other psychedelics like LSD or DMT. It has appeared in a variety of media, often portrayed as a strange, unpredictable drug. In the early 2000s salvia gained notoriety when a few viral videos on YouTube showed people taking it and experiencing bizarre effects, which led to an uptick, an uptick in interest, but it also sparked legal and ethical debates about its use. And these viral videos were largely responsible for just a general public awareness of salvia, but not always in a positive way, because the experiences were often disorienting and unsettling. Salvia got a bit of reputation for being dangerous or uncontrollable, and there were some concerns from policy makers about its safety, and that pushed several governments to reconsider how salvia should be regulated, and so around the.
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Same time, several US states began to ban or heavily restrict salvia, classifying it similarly to controlled substances like marijuana or psilocybin. But what's interesting is that the laws vary significantly from place to place. In some parts of the world it's seems to be legal, while in others, it's tightly regulated at the federal level. And interestingly, it's unique to see the different legal responses to the same substance. Yeah, it really comes down to how governments perceive the risks associated with salvia. In places like the US, there was growing concern that salvia could be dangerous, especially if people were using it irresponsibly or without understanding the potential risks. Meanwhile, in places like Mexico, where salvia is part of traditional indigenous culture, it remains legal and is seen more as a sacred plant than a recreational drug. So yeah, it really is interesting the different views of the same substance. There's also this issue of how salvia is perceived compared to other psychedelics. So since salvia doesn't have the same cultural significance as something like LSD or psilocybin, and because its effects are so strange, you could put it, it's often not considered in the same conversations about potential therapeutic use. But we may see this change as more research is done. As we were saying, there's not a lot of research into solving medicinal properties. Miss you, and I kind of talk a lot about, like, different psychedelic compounds and what they do to their brain and body. So let's talk more about what happens in the brain during in a salvia experience. We've already talked about the Kappa opioid receptor, but let's dig a little bit deeper into the neuroscience. Yeah, so the Kappa opioid receptor is definitely the star player when it comes to its effects, but it's important to understand how the activation of these receptors leads to dissociative states. So to repeat ourselves a little bit and summarize, when the Kappa receptors are activated, they disrupt communication between different parts of the brain that are responsible for sensory processing and self awareness, and these disruptions can lead to a breakdown in the brain's ability to maintain a cohesive sense of reality. And neuroscientists believe that this receptor plays a key role in altering the way our brain processes information about ourselves and our surroundings. So when salvia activates the Kappa opioid receptor, it changes how sensory information is integrated, which can lead to profound alterations in consciousness, and this might explain why people feel like they're leaving their body or becoming an object. So there's also some evidence to suggest that kappa opioid receptor activation then leads to a reduction in dopamine signaling, which is why salvia effects tend to be more dysphoric or emotionally neutral compared to the euphoria associated with drugs that increase dopamine, like MDMA or cocaine, that's a great point. So dopamine is closely tied to feelings of pleasure and reward, and many psychedelics that act on the serotonergic system also boost dopamine levels, leading to euphoric or uplifting experiences. Salvi, on the other hand, dampens dopamine, which is why users often describe feeling detached or emotionally flat during their trip. Another important point to make is that salvinorin A the active ingredient of salvia. It's incredibly potent. It's one of the most potent naturally occurring psychoactive substances that we know of, with effective doses measured in micrograms. So that potency likely contributes to how rapidly and intensely the effects hit when salvia is smoked or vaporized. So unlike with most drugs, which have to be metabolized by the liver before they take effect, Salvador and a works almost immediately because it's absorbed directly into the bloodstream through the lungs. Yeah, and there's also emerging, emerging evidence that solvent or in a might have some action at other receptors, like the cannabinoid receptor subtype, though this is still speculative, but what's clear is that the pharmacology of salvia is more nuanced than originally thought, and it might share some similarities with other classes of drugs, like cannabinoids, but the research is still ongoing. Other diterpenes found in the plant are less studied, and more research is needed to fully explore its chemical diversity. It's fascinating how different parts of the brain interact to create these profound experiences. Perhaps the study of salvia could help us understand other dissociative disorders or conditions. Yeah, studying how salvia affects the brain's connectivity could really give us some useful insight into conditions like depersonalization derealization disorder, which involves feelings of detachment from oneself or the world. It could also help us understand other conditions, like certain types of schizophrenia, where a patient's experience breaks from reality, and salvia might even offer clues about how our sense of self is constructed in the brain. So by studying how salvia breaks down that sense of self, we might learn more about how the brain maintains a continuous and cohesive sense of identity during normal waking consciousness. So after an intense experience with salvia, can you talk about what.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Steps people should take to process what they went through. I want to talk more about the like integration, similar to what people do after using other psychedelics. Yeah, that's I'm glad we're touching base on this again, because integration is really crucial after any psychedelic experience, but it's especially important with salvia because of how disorienting it can be after a salvia trip, people might feel confused or unsure of what they experienced, and that's where integration comes in. It's about taking the time to reflect on the experience and making sense of it. And the traditional mass attack use the Coronavirus often helps guide people through their salvia experience and offer support afterward. In modern context, that support might come from a therapist or a trusted friend, it's important to talk through what happened and give yourself time to reflect on any emotions or insights. And some people find
Unknown Speaker 25:50
journaling helpful, while others might meditate or engage in other creative activities to process what they went through. And the key really is to approach the experience with an open mind and give time and space to process it, and integration is especially important. If the experience was unsettling or challenging, salvia can sometimes bring up difficult emotions or memories, so it's important to have a support system in place to help you work through those feelings. Yeah, and so we've talked a lot about salvia is potential risks and its intense effects, but really quickly, is there a possibility that salvo could be used for personal growth or self exploration? That's a great question. So while salvia is more dissociative than most psychedelics, some people do report profound insights or realizations during their trips, but this seems to be more of the exception than the rule, because salvia breaks down the normal boundaries between self in reality, it can sometimes lead to moments of clarity, but it's it's rare, like I was saying. It's worth noting that selfie is not as well suited for long term self exploration. Those substances tend to provide they're more fleeting and harder to pin down, and the dissociative nature means that users often feel disconnected from their bodies or their emotions, so this makes it harder to integrate or apply any insights that come up during the trip. So this doesn't mean salvia can't be helpful for personal growth, but it doesn't seem to be the best tool. All right. Thanks so much, missy. I really appreciate the discussion today, and thanks to our listeners for joining us. Tune in next time for another episode of the chemical collective where we'll explore more fascinating topics in the world of psychoactive substances.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai