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A Westmeath Libraries podcast where we chat with a variety of local historians. We'll learn what started them on the path towards history and they'll share some gems of our local history collection
Lorna : Welcome to Westmeath Libraries' podcast. This morning we're celebrating local history and I'm talking to Ian Kenneally manager and producer with Pegasus Media, creators of The History Show on RTE Radio One.
Morning Ian, how are you?
Ian
Hi, Lorna how are you?
Lorna
Good, good, can you just maybe start by telling us a little bit about yourself and, how you found yourself as the previous Historian in Residence with Westmeath County Council.
Ian
Back in 2020, Westmeath County Council, I think that was the first year that they had the Historian in Residence program and that was aas part of the wider Decade of Centenaries, running for the 1916 First World War and War of Independence, civil war. And, they put an ad out and obviously I applied, and that was the first year I got it. And subsequently was Historian in Residence in 2021, 22 and last year in 2023. And the latest round of the Historian in Residence program came to an end last December.
Lorna
Okay. can you tell us a little bit about your work in those periods?
Ian
Yeah, there was a national program to explore and commemorate and try and better understand the events of the Decade of Centenaries, and for the Westmeath County Council version, we were very much focused on Westmeath but putting it in that wider, national context. So we were looking 100 years previously. We were in the height of the War of Independence in Ireland. So we were looking at what happened in Westmeath, politicalls, culturally and in terms of the conflict itself, the battle between the Irish Republican Army, and the British Crown forces. So we looked at that, in 2020, say, a big example of, of that conflict locally was the destruction, by the Crown forces of the offices at Westmead Independent, in November 1920. That also was the Athlone Printworks. At the time it employed about 100 people. But that newspaper which, also the Offaly independent was printed out of those offices, as were numerous other papers, the Westmeath Independent was very critical of British rule in Ireland and the conduct of the British Crown forces, say whether that was the police or whether that was the British Army. And as retaliation for that coverage, it was attacked by a group called the Auxiliaries, which were a section of the police force and was attacked in October. But the most serious attack happened in November. And that shut the newspaper down until 1922.
So it was out of operation for, for well over a year. And that was a very egregious example of violence against the media, which was common during the War of Independence. But it happened right here in Athlone.
Lorna
Yeah. And when you say you've you've researched this, is it available to the public in audio form, book form?
Ian
Well, we in partnership, say back in 2020, in partnership with the Westmeath Independent Western County Council, produced a 16 page supplement, about the destruction, about the war of independence generally in Westmeath, but focusing on the destruction of the Westmeath Independent. So that's still available online on the Westmeath Independent website. But like this event was not only a big event in the town, but it was a big event, it was covered by newspapers around the world. It was a topic for discussion in the British House of Commons at the time. So we also did numerous articles in the Westmeath County Council blog, which is still running. That is well over 100 entries, well over 100,000 words, it's a great resource.
And not just myself now, there's multiple authors, including some of the people you've interviewed, like John Gibney, Gretta Connell, who used to work with the Council and the library services, there's many, many authors looking at different examples of the War of Independence in Westmeahth. And just one story, from our efforts say with regard to the destruction of the Westmeath Independent, a gentleman who saw our work on that topic had many primary documents in his possession related to that event.
Sworn affidavits from eyewitnesses and so on. And he came forward with that material and gave it to, give it to myself and through me it went into the Westmeath Library Services, and it's now in the, Special Collections in Mullingar Library.
Lorna
Yeah. Great. And what was your previous role before you were Historian in Residence?
Ian
Well, I've had many roles, but I suppose the biggest one, just previous to the Historian in Residence I was editor of a weekly magazine called The Revolution Papers, which was a very popular sold out across its entire run. Well over a million copies that ran for 2016 to 2018.
And that covered again, that was Decade of Centenaries related stuff. It covered the War of Independence, Civil War, First World War in Ireland, but also looking at international events. As I said, that was out every week. That was a great, great success.
Lorna
That period is obviously your main interest in history.
Ian
At the moment, yeay. My own work, say my PhD or books that I've published. I wrote a book, in 2008 called The Paper Wall, which looked at the War of Independence and propaganda in the media. So it's not the only focus, but given the times we're in, the Decade of Centenaries, it's a natural focus for me.
Lorna
Where did you study yourself Ian?
00;05;55;26 - 00;05;59;04
Ian
Studied in UCC and in NUI Galway.
Lorna
And you obviously studied history?
Ian
Yeah.
Lorna
Yeah. Very good. Can you tell us a little bit about your role with Pegasus Media and the Irish History Show?
Ian
The History Show has been running on RTE for a good many years, presented by Myles Dungan and Pegasus, you know, they do the history show, but they've also done a series of road shows. They even did some in West Westmeath say, where they gather together experts or speakers on a particular topic, say the one in Athlone was in the Sheraton in 2016. And it was about the War of Independence. And I spoke at it, Myles Dungan spoke at it, and, I think Gearoid O'Brien might have spoken at it.
Lorna
I think he might have, yeah.
Ian
If not that one other ones, and I was involved in those road shows for many years and, but I also work as, a researcher, for one of their other projects, which is the history show. So I work with Myles Dungan and the producer, Lorcan Clancy, and we discuss new books or do research or anything related to any aspect of Irish history.
Lorna
and give it a bit of a plug Ian. When's it on?
Ian
Well the new season is starting on 25th of February. So we produce the spring season and then it'll be on again then in the autumn. So we produce not only the history show, but all sorts of, like, I'm producing another series, that'll be out later in 2024 called Fake News and Irish Freedom. And that's based on my own research and my thesis and so on. And it's about the War of Independence and the Civil War and that's due to be presented by the journalist Flora McCarthy.
Lorna
Oh, fantastic.
Ian
Yeah, yeah. She's great. she's done a lot with the History Show over the years. And just before Christmas, we produced a show for Pegasus with Dermot Whelan the comedian.
Lorna
I love Dermot Whelan. What's that about?
Ian
That was just in looking back over "a word in your year", it was called. It was a comedy show. But it was looking back over changing vernacular and words and words that have become popular over the last years. So. Yeah, we do shows like that but history is the main focus.
Lorna
Yeah, yeah. And so I suppose you're a regular here in the library that so.
Ian
Yeah. Yeah. The library here has been great. Even before I was doing the Historian in Residence I'd often, when Gearoid was here for example. But now I come in and meet you, and you know, the facilities themselves are really modern. Obviously, it's a new building and the same in Mullingar. Relatively new. So it's really it's comfortable but it also the wealth of material that we have here. I suppose just one particular example. Like I'd always come in here over the years for bits and pieces about that Athlone history. Yeah. But in the last few years, through the, historian in residence program, I was tasked with, producing an exhibition about a guy called Charles Howard Bury who owned, Belvedere House near Mullingar, famous, you know, a tourist attraction these days.
But he, in 1921, he had led the first, expedition, official expedition to Mount Everest. Now they weren't trying to climb the mountain, to reach the summit, but they were trying to find the possible route. It was called a reconnaissance mission. so in honor of the hundredth anniversary of that, we created an exhibition.
And as part of that exhibition, I got access to the Charles Howard-Bury papers in Mullingar. And among those papers were well over a thousand photographs that had never been digitized. So with Melanie McQuaid the Heritage Officer we got those digitized and I've put up information on the website and that's drawn the attention of researchers from all over the world. I'm helping a British academic at the moment who is going through those.
Lorna
Oh wow.
Ian
yeah, so there's there's material in there, here in Athlone and in Mullingar that's, as you know, it's extra ordinary.
Lorna
Sometimes it's only when somebody else from outside of the service comes in. They might see stuff we don't see that. They see the importance of stuff that we mightn't.
Ian
Yeah you might realize, because sometimes local is seen as a kind of, in a negative sense.
And some guy'll come in from abroad. We shouldn't have to have some that happen, but they'll say "wow, this has international significance" and everybody all of a sudden is like "wow" .
Lorna
Wow we've had this for years.
Ian
Yeah. But in fairness now to the council and the library services they were very proactive. Because they came up with the idea of, of commemorating, this exhibition to Mount Everest and the the Mullingar link to that, because off-hand you're not going to think there's any link between Mullingar and a mountain in Tibet or Nepal, and that the incredible story behind that because I mean one of the offshoots of that story was that, it was a huge event at the time in terms of newspaper coverage. You could look at British newspapers, American, French, and they're all following Howard-Bury as he went, the expedition and that team progressed and their journey through Tibet and and up the slopes of Mount Everest, and they were sending back reports, from Mount Everest as they traveled. And one of those, Howard-Bury, he said they noticed weird footprints in the snow.
And, that story, took on a life of its own, basically. And what happened was it sparked this kind of myth of the abominable snowman. And that's where the phrase, you know, journalists covering that story was the first person to effectively come up with the phrase.
Lorna
Oh really? I didn't realise that.
Ian
Yeah, that's another link you wouldn't think. Yeah, yeah. that in Tibetan culture and in Nepal, in those countries. Yeti is part of their culture. And those stories go back a long, long time. But this was kind of its introduction to Europe and America, through Charles Howard-Bury. Yeah there's all those links
Lorna
I'm learning something today.
Ian
Yeah. You don't think of Mullingar and yetis in the same sentence.
Lorna
Yeah that's amazing. And is there anything else you can think of that you might have used or come across over the years that struck a chord with you? Putting you on the spot now.
Ian
A lot of it is not only the papers, but there's books in here that have been written, like Liam Cox, I think, the book he'd written about Moate. I couldn't get that anywhere but it is in here.
Lorna
And his daughter actually taught me in school, and she was the same, she was wonderful. She said a great way about her. She'd such an interest in history.
Ian
Yeah. And that's a great book.
Lorna
Oh its fantastic.
Ian
I quoted it multiple times because and, you know, it would point you in directions that you didn't realize. And he'd done great research. There's loads of books like that from around.
Lorna
Little bits in all of them. Even in the small libraries there's little connections.
Ian
In Moate, yeah. yeah. And you know, they are vital, if you're trying to research because you're when you're researching you're obviously building on the work that previous people in previous generations. But if you can't get access to it, it seems like it never existed. But because of Athlone and the other libraries you can.
Lorna
But also, its so important to have people like yourself when you were in your role as a Historian in Residence, it kind of brings history tolife and bring it to everybody. So it's not just for academics or just for people in college.
Ian
We got, through the Historian in Residence, people would contact me and and say, look, I have these photos. And, I mightn't recognize, but they'd be able to tell me that this was taken here in Westmeath. It was 1919. And this is Tom.
Lorna
You know, it's amazing.
Ian
And we can add that to the story.
Lorna
Little gems in every house, I suppose that people don't even realise exist.
Ian
There was one woman contacted me about her mother, who died relatively young unfortunately, the mother did. But, she'd been in Cumann na mBan in the Tang area. And there's all those kind of stories
Lorna
They weren't recorded, I suppose, anywhere.
Ian
yeah, and people maybe, didn't know maybe where to go with it. So we played a small part, I hope, anyway, of bringing some of that material together and making sure that others can have access to it in the future.
Lorna
Yeah. Thank you so much for your time this morning Ian, and keep us posted on future projects that are coming up. Thank you.