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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:00)
welcome to America, land of the kings and home of the emperors.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:05)
Apparently.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:07)
The truth
is though, Taina not even in countries with kings and emperors do they have their supreme leader photographed in the passport.
So anyway, by the time we're recording this again, the world loses such a clip. It'll be old news. But I did just hear about this last night, I guess. Interestingly, I listened to Bulwark, which is a bunch of never Trump or former Republican kind of people who are now like actively in diehard trying to get him out includes
Taina Brown she/hers (00:20)
It'll be old news, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:37)
here, Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell. they're certainly not at my end of the spectrum. But I listen to them, because I do find it interesting to hear what those folks who managed to free themselves from this cult or never really fall prey to the cult have to say.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:51)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:53)
because I do think it can be interesting to hear from that temperament about these things, they actually had this story first they just talked about this on their podcast last night. They called the White House for comment.
as you do when you are a journalist, you call to say, do you want to confirm this story? Do you want to a quote about why you guys are making this decision or whatever? The White House asked them for a little time they were being, I guess, extra kind and said, okay, we'll give you a little more time.
And in that time, they went to Fox and gave Fox the story because I guess they were like, well, the story's coming out. So they went to Fox and gave them the story. anybody who thinks that Fox isn't a propaganda arm of the White House, they are. But yeah, the news is that they're talking about redesigning the,
Taina Brown she/hers (01:24)
Yeah.
Yeah, it
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (01:34)
passport so that when you open the cover and that is a space that has historically been for things that are symbolic of the US. Eagles and mountains and mountains and the flag. And instead putting that one, this picture of Trump,
Taina Brown she/hers (01:41)
Yeah. The flag, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (01:48)
And of course he will probably come out and say, I didn't ask for that. I didn't say I wanted that. And either that's true and these are people who are just bootlicking, know, and that happens or he did and he's saying he didn't, right? He's saying, or has he's done the past. I was just kidding. Maybe he took it seriously and decided to do it but who am I to tell him no, right? He has put his face on banners on
Taina Brown she/hers (01:52)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (02:10)
the Justice Department, well, Even beyond social media behaving stuff like nonsense, quite seriously, he's put himself on banners in front of every part of the US government, like we see in totalitarian states throughout history. And he's been, you know, he's renaming things in his name. Like the man is so classically narcissist.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:11)
On Jesus?
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (02:35)
So delusional, like it hurts the brain. It hurts the brain to think how are people not in revolt? Can you travel with me down to an alternate universe where President Barack Hussein Obama, as they like to call him, had deigned to put his photo in the past, to sign the dollar.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:37)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
on the passport.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (02:56)
By the way, that's also something he's now done. Now the dollar has his signature. That's not something that's happened before. To put his face in front of the Department of Justice, which is supposed to be a body that is wholly sort of independent of political party. Can you, can you, can you picture that world and the outrage from the same Republicans now who are licking the man's boots saying, yes, sir, we love it. And what else can we do?
Taina Brown she/hers (03:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I mean,
Obama couldn't even get away with wearing a tan suit.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (03:29)
I mean, if it weren't reality, would, it is funny, but it would be much funnier if it weren't reality that we.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:35)
Yeah, I mean, I feel
like we're living in an episode of like The Simpsons or South Park or something. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (03:39)
It feels like an episode of Black Mirror to me. It's
like, we used to live in a world where a tan suit was like a nearly impeachable offense by a president. And now we have a president who literally sits in his own shit.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:51)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (03:51)
Yeah, it is just a wild world. I don't know where else to go with that, Tayina, except that I did see that news about the passport. And yeah, here we are.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:59)
Yeah. Yeah. I will say that coming back from vacation this time, international travel, the post-vacation blues have definitely hit harder than any other time because of all the...
the tragic goings-ons happening in this country.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (04:18)
Yeah, I'm sure you were like, can I just stay? Please?
Taina Brown she/hers (04:22)
Mm-hmm.
Like, promise I won't be a burden to your government.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (04:25)
You know, and I was just having a conversation yesterday with somebody we both know who lives in Europe, who is going through the process, married to somebody who's European. so going through the process of getting citizenship and stuff and just talking about the process to become a citizen of another country, let alone just a resident. Right. That's usually the process looks like you become a resident. That's a years long process to become a resident. And then usually citizenship is a year's more process on top of that in most places.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (04:53)
And she's going through that process and we were talking about it and just how challenging that process is. And then you will have people who will either flippantly on the right be like, well, if you hate it so much, go live somewhere else. Or people on the left who will be in a similar kind of like, I just want to leave or whatever. without any recognition of the privilege that all of that entails. because if you are able to leave, there's a lot of privilege that allowed you to be able to do that.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (05:18)
And for those who are like, just get the hell out, it's like, do you understand that that's not actually something just any old person can just be like, you know what? I don't like it here anymore. I'm just gonna head up to the great white North and be like, hey Canada, I'm here, me in. And now I'm a resident. It's not how it works. ⁓ It's very challenging as we see within the U.S. You know, I think the right gets confused because they have a warped understanding of what immigration is based on the rhetoric that they hear.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:24)
Yeah, yeah.
It doesn't work that way. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (05:46)
And they think it's like
simply you just cross a border and now you live there and you just, that's not actually.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:50)
Yeah, which is
ironic because that's what people have done to come here to escape hardship and violence and genocide and things like that. And they don't think that's okay. So like just the irony, like the cognitive dissonance.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (06:12)
Well, and also
they are spinning a narrative that immigration looks like these people are just flooding across the border and then they take our jobs and now they're here and whatever. And that's not actually for the largest majority of people who are here as immigrants. They didn't just walk across, hop, skip and jump across a border and now you're there. That's not actually what immigration largely looks like. Are there a few people that maybe are able to
Taina Brown she/hers (06:26)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (06:40)
get in that way and function sure. But for the most part, people who come here are going through a process in the same way that if Americans leave, they go through a process, exactly, is a long, laborious, often expensive process. That entails a lot of privilege. And those who are the most, the least privileged, who are here because of actual, like you're saying, they're trying to flee persecution and things like that on safe environments, they may not have to go through those, the,
Taina Brown she/hers (06:41)
Mm-hmm.
A long process.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (07:08)
They may have a different path that doesn't involve paying their way in, but their path is no less complicated. In fact, it's often more complicated. They now have to prove all of these things that they're saying and go through all kinds of being grilled and everything else. But anyway, yeah, it's just, it's such a privilege to pretend like we can all just be like, yeah, I'm out of here. I don't like it anymore. If it were that easy, I think a lot more.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:12)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. If it were that easy,
so many people would be doing it, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (07:32)
I would be gone, I would be gone. But it costs
money. It's upending your life. It's, you know, a lot of these countries, these countries don't want us. Just like we in America are not me, but how some people in America are so resistant to immigration. That is a worldwide problem. So to think, I think also Americans have this, especially now very warped view of how the rest of the world thinks of us. And that they're just like,
Taina Brown she/hers (07:37)
Mm-hmm. Changing your relationships, like the dynamic of your relationships, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (08:00)
open arms going, Americans, of course we want you, you're the world's greatest, why would we? And that is not the case, they don't want us here.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:07)
Now most
places hate us.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (08:09)
with good reason, but they don't want us coming in either. They make it very hard. So yeah, we live in a really strange world and ⁓ it only seems to be getting stranger every day. And I don't know. I don't know what we're going to talk about other than how are you?
Taina Brown she/hers (08:12)
you
Yeah, yeah, well, you know, when people make that argument, if you hate it so much, just leave, like that to me is just an indication. Like, OK, you don't really like you said, you don't understand what migrating actually looks like. So I'm I'm not wasting my energy and my breath, like debating with you or trying to convince you of something because you've bought into this narrative. And anything I say is just going to like you're just going to.
pick what's going to confirm your bias and then try to like use that as an argument. I'm just not, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (08:55)
Well, that really speaks to a problem that we have here around critical thinking and media literacy in America is is deeply flawed and has probably always been to some degree. I mean, these are not skills that kids are learning in school and media literacy and critical thinking skills are. I mean, never has it been more important, and it's always been important to be able to decipher what
Taina Brown she/hers (09:01)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (09:20)
is happening in the world around you and what you are being told and what part of that is like what is influencing the things you're being told. But in this wild world of AI and online kids now it is really like we've got to teach kids how to know what is real and what's not and how media works. know we have people who are 80 who really do believe that Fox News is fair and balanced as they say.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:30)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (09:47)
You know, and now those and that's the 80 year olds who should know better. Right. And we have eight year olds who are living in a very different world than their 80 year old grandparents, where they're being inundated constantly with things that are slowly emotionally manipulating them into like the Manosphere or into these into beliefs that they they they their parents don't hold that they they don't. And yet it's so easy, especially with
Taina Brown she/hers (09:50)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (10:13)
those tender little brains to manipulate them into beliefs.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:16)
Yeah, yeah, it is. is. ⁓ man. Okay. It is. It's very scary.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (10:19)
now it's a scary time.
It's hard to be a parent. But it's hard for all of us. Honestly, like I, I'm still for the most part, I feel like I watch videos, I'll be like, okay, that's pretty clearly AI or whatever, right? But it is getting even more.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:24)
I can't imagine. Yeah.
It's getting,
sometimes it's hard to tell.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (10:39)
Mm-hmm, there are times and even times when I'm like, you guys, that's obviously AI. I will go on social media and see people sharing things as if they're real. And I think, can you not see that this is clearly not real? I mean, even people who are sharing, this is sort of related, but like people who share these videos that are clearly scripted where it's like, you know, some...
Taina Brown she/hers (10:47)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (11:00)
baby, let's say it's a gender reveal. I don't know, I'm just making one up, but a gender reveal and the dad gets mad because it's a boy or a girl and he wanted a boy or something, right? But it's obvious, like really bad acting. It's a whole thing stage. But I people sharing this story and being like, can you believe him? I just would never like that that happened, whatever. And I'm like, my God, there are people who are falling for this, let alone what AI is now able to do. We're hosed if we can't tell those things from, like.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:07)
Yeah. Stage, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (11:27)
Where's it gonna go?
Taina Brown she/hers (11:28)
I don't know, I don't know, I'm just.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (11:31)
Bye now.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:31)
I have nothing to say.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (11:33)
I know. And soon I
think we're going to have like, I mean, I think it already is starting to happen. AI influencers, like people who are not real, that's starting to happen. I think that's happening in some of the like, OnlyFans kind of spaces where they're using like sexy AI things to get people to follow these accounts and things. And then what starts to happen? Like you remember when the movie Her came out and
Taina Brown she/hers (11:54)
Mm-hmm. Well,
a keen Phoenix.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (11:57)
And he falls in love with his eye with Siri basically. And I think at the time it felt sort of silly. But there are now people who are falling in love with AI. they're showing and not only that, but they are showing that it is not people who are not intelligent. It is not people who are necessarily you would consider gullible or naive.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:58)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (12:19)
It is
actually like the inevitable conclusion of an unhealthy relationship with AI. As in, if you are somebody who begins to use it too much, rely on it too much, have too many conversations with it, and then what inevitably happens is it begins to act like a cult. It basically starts to pull you away from other people. It manipulates you into wanting to relying on it, being with it, becoming dependent on it, excluding others from your life.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:35)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (12:45)
Right. does all the things that we see the classic kind of manipulate manipulation that happens inside of cults that ends up with people where they become have unhealthy relationships with this AI being being and. End up giving it all kinds of information, fall, truly falling in love with it, believing everything it's telling them, and this is already happening.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (13:07)
I mean, it's really scary.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:08)
It is scary. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (13:10)
Yeah.
So maybe we could talk about AI, because I am curious how you're using AI. Or if you are on the like, I just don't use it at all. Run.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:16)
I try not to use it as much as possible. just, and I was thinking about this yesterday again, cause like in the fanfic space, like AI is like a really big topic of conversation all the time because you have companies who are like scrubbing information. You have publishing companies who are now like instead of using artists, they're using AI generated art for books and things like that. And so, so I was thinking about it yesterday.
And I think because someone on my Instagram post said about like, know, if you instead of like hiring someone, like all these publishing companies, instead of hiring artists, like they're hiring or they're just using AI. Right. And that's kind of like unfortunate. And I was saying, OK, how does yes, I 100 percent completely agree. But like.
The human aspect of it is what really bothers me about it. And we've talked about this before. If you need a quick answer or if you can't afford, small business owners like us, we can't necessarily afford to hire someone to do a website for us all the time or things like that. And so I get it. But if it's at all possible to...
connect with someone in your community to get your need met and you go to AI instead, then I feel like that's a missed connection. Like that's a missed opportunity to like dive deeper into community to like continue to build that up. And like it just, feels like such a, for me, it feels like such a strong, ethical thing. Like I just.
I think about it as like, am I replacing human connection? How would I be replacing human connection with AI if I were to use it for something? And that's the benchmark for me. But like I said, we've talked about it before and for my business as a business owner, if I just cannot afford or just don't have it in me to connect with someone because of,
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (15:08)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:23)
my disability or whatever, then it's not a black and white thing, but I think as much, as much, as much as possible, I just don't want to use it because...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (15:29)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:35)
I'd be training it to do those things to other people.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (15:38)
Yeah, I hear you.
It's such an ethical dilemma for me, and I'm wrestling with it in real time. And I feel like I'm failing in a lot of ways. So, you know, I'm showing up messy and real here because I am using AI to a degree. Largely in two areas. One, I'm using it in to build. I was just talking about this yesterday. I feel like tools are not built for the way my brain works.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:48)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (16:00)
the tools that I've experienced anyway, things to organize my business. Like I've Notion, I've tried Kanban, I've tried all the things that are supposed to help my brain get organized. And none of them have worked for me. They just don't seem to work the way my brain works. And it leaves me in this, with my ADHD brain that's always spinning and everything, it just leaves me in this constant feeling of like I'm in the middle of a tornado and everything around me.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:00)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (16:30)
And I am just constantly like, I grabbed one thing and I managed, but like everything, I don't feel good. I don't feel organized. don't, I feel chaotic all the time in ways I don't want to feel. So I have been using AI to try and solve that for myself by having it help me build tools that work in the way my brain works. And that has been working for me. It's been helping the tools that I've been starting to create for myself, the dashboards that I'm able to make, which
Taina Brown she/hers (16:37)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (16:58)
just live on my desktop. They're not out there in the world. not sharing. mean, obviously, AI is using my information to train. I get that. But I'm not like creating things to sell or anything like that. It's like a tool for my, a solution for me that I feel like speaks, is built by me, for me to work for the way my brain works. By me and AI for me. That so far has felt better. Like I feel, again,
Taina Brown she/hers (17:09)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (17:24)
Could I hire someone? Maybe, right? I can't afford that. So I have never been able to. I have tried different tools and the tools I've all tried don't seem to work for me. So it does feel in a way to me, it feels a little bit like this is a place where it's allowing me to liberate myself from the tools that exist that have all been built largely by white men for neurotypical white men that just don't work for me. So in some ways that feels a little more ethical, even though
Taina Brown she/hers (17:27)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (17:49)
there's still all the murkiness around the AI and the training and privacy and all that stuff that does make me nervous. And could I hire someone? Maybe I can't afford that so I can't, but like it could be a thing a human could do. So, okay, that's like the one bucket. The other bucket where I use it is for web design. That's something a human could easily do. I can't afford it. I've always been very limited by what I can figure out how to do on my own.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, web designers are expensive.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (18:15)
And I've taught myself a lot over the years because I've done my own website since 2005. So I've been doing my own web design for 20 years and I've always done an okay job. People have always thought my websites look pretty good and like I, you know, I like branding. I like doing those kinds of things with the basic skills I have. But I've always had dreams of like way more I would like to do. And I get such creative fulfillment through doing things like this of like those kinds of projects.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:39)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (18:39)
I
like those are the things that get me excited and that I live for, obviously, like starting a new podcast. I love that. And I love all the branding that goes with it and all the design that goes with it all the elements that I get to create. And I like I like this like world building I can get through starting something and building a whole world around it, including like digital assets and stuff. But I'm also limited by my abilities, which is just the reality. And so I have been using it to do some web stuff. And I am like sitting with the like discomfort of hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:58)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (19:07)
This is something a human could do and probably should be doing. I could never afford that. So I'm left with what I can do. But do I really need to do the new website? Like, I feel like the the organizing stuff feels like more of an actual need. I assume maybe it's not a true need, but it does. It changes everything about how I'm able to function. And so that feels more like, yeah, that feels more like a need where the website feels more like a
Taina Brown she/hers (19:11)
Yeah.
then it's a need, then it's a need. Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (19:34)
good to have, fun to have, nice to have, but maybe not in need. But also it gives me so much joy and fulfillment in doing it and being able to do something I've never been able to do before. But yeah, so that's where I'm at. I'm sitting with the like, I just want to share the real messiness of it because I am not doing what some people do, which is like, I just won't touch AI at all. And I have some guilt around that. And then I see like Reese Witherspoon showing up talking about like, hey, ladies, we need to get on board with AI because it's here to stay whatever.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:35)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (19:59)
and the backlash against her of like, this just feels like an MLM and the whole, and I'm like, I get all of it. And also here I am still using some. So there we go, that's my.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:04)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah. Well, mean, I think, you know, I think the way that you, the first bucket, what are you using like to organize things? I think that is what it should be used for, right? Like it should be used to help people build systems, find ways to like better meet their needs so that they can thrive and function at their best. Like that is...
That should be the purpose of technology, right? That should be the purpose of medicine. Like that should be the purpose of a lot of things, but.
because it's not in the hands of the people, right? It's in the hands of these companies who are not in it necessarily to help. Like helping might be on the priority list, but it's not the top of the priority list, right? The top of the priority list is money, right? It's making money. And so that's where like, that's where things get iffy. And so I don't know, I don't think.
people who are using it to help themselves live better lives should stop using it. Because a part of how companies are using it is out of our control, right? And it's not going anywhere. It's not going anywhere. Reese Witherspoon is right. It's not going anywhere. How we engage with it, right? I think that part of what she was saying, that's up for debate, right?
It's not just like a clean cut. Well, it's not going anywhere. So might as well just be all in, right? But you can't also throw the baby out with the bath water. Like if it's, if it is helping people who have neurodivergent brains and need some assistance that's at this point free and affordable, right? We'll see how long that lasts then. No, it definitely won't. It definitely won't. As soon as they find a way, as soon as they
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (21:48)
That one.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:53)
find a way to like completely monetize it and just like skyrocket their profits. Like they will, they will.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (22:00)
Well,
I interviewed Amelia Ruby for my new show called Analogish, which starts on May 13th, everyone. So it's almost here. And she's one of the first episodes because she's taking a year long.
sabbatical break, whatever, from AI, generative AI. mean, AI has been around for a long time. So when we say AI, we're really shorthand for generative AI. Yeah, right. But I think we're all generative AI. And she's not using it for a year. And that's like a cold turkey, nothing, whatever. And she was talking about what her sort of thinking is around what's coming.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:17)
Yeah, yeah. Spell track is AI, right? Like, that's an early version of AI, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (22:33)
and seeing it go to more of a subscription use-based model and or and the scary I think thing for a lot of people is how will it go into the couldn't go the likes of like social media of selling your data of.
advertising and things like that. Like what might that end up being? Could that can the results be skewed to become advertising based and things like that that are really scary? ⁓ So, yeah, I mean, we're in the early days of remember when like Facebook was just a it just you just scrolled and you saw what people were posting in real time. And that's all it was. Yeah. Right. The good old days of any new tool like this is is pretty great.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And that was it. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have all these other features or... Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (23:19)
Right? Like it's, I don't have any ads, I have anything. It's free or it's almost free. Like, you know, I pay for pro plans. Twenty bucks a month. It's like nothing. That's not going to stay. Right. Like, I know the day is coming where it's going to be right now. I could build a, you know, what would probably be a five thousand dollar website for 20 bucks a month soon enough. That's not going to be the case. Right. That it will probably be it will still be less than having a human do it. But it's going to be a whole lot more than it is right now. I see that coming.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:19)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (23:47)
So I do think we're in for a big change at some point, because it's not sustainable. They're losing money right now. This is just like what was at the beginning of the social media boom, where all of those tech companies, those social media tech companies, were holding up the economy, right? Because their stock prices were huge, but they weren't actually making any money, right? All this inflated thing. And that at some point...
Taina Brown she/hers (23:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then they went
to ads, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (24:10)
At some point, the stockholders are like, you got to actually start making real money here. And so they start making real money. And we see what happens with that. And so this is going to the same because right now the US economy is largely being held up by AI. It's all of our AI stocks and things that are keeping that stock market. Because right now the stocks should be at like freaking negative zero. The world is so. Yeah, things are about to change.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:17)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
you
Yeah, have you
heard of the singularity?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (24:36)
The singularity?
Taina Brown she/hers (24:37)
Yeah,
it's this theory. I read about it a few years ago. It's this theory about basically the singularity is a tipping point in technological advancements when tech starts to become sentient and doesn't and no longer needs like human input and can like make decisions on their own. And so I if I remember correctly, I have to look it up. But
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (24:53)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:05)
One of the experts that the article interviewed about the singularity was saying it could happen as early as like 2060, like the 2060s, I think.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (25:15)
Yeah, it's where it no longer needs human control. It like goes beyond human control. It's what we think of, I think, when we see sci-fi movies set in the future and the robot or whatever, thinking over, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Terminator. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, all of that. So, yeah, so all of this talk, like it just makes me, like that's what comes to mind for me is like, we're just like pushing ourselves like closer, like closer and closer to that, that tipping point to our own demise. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (25:39)
to our own demise.
Right? Why? Why?
Taina Brown she/hers (25:43)
Why? I mean, but why do... I mean, we know why. Because it's like, well, you know, money, profit, greed.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (25:47)
money, greed. I saw someone
say, and I loved this, instead of calling people the richest people, so whenever they do these lists of the 10 richest people in the world or whatever, someone said, like, language freaking matters and we don't control over language. We should start calling them the 10 greediest people. Like, it's such a stupid, small, subtle shift that is, but it's right.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:59)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (26:08)
And language does matter. When we start talking about people as being the richest people, that is like something that feels admirable. It's like something we want to aspire to. But as soon as somebody were to start calling them the 10 greatest people, that's not something people want to aspire to. Right. And that shifts things. And we need to start figuring out how to make more of those shifts. Yeah, because the people at the bottom right now think they want to be at that.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:19)
Yeah. Yeah.
Those mental shifts, yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (26:31)
because they are looking up there as an aspirational thing. And I think if we could start finding some other ways to language that are real, they're true, but that would help people, like it would just start to shift narratives. I think we've got to start figuring out how to do that. And I loved that one. I was like, yeah, they are the 10 greediest people in the world.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:40)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Previous people
for sure, for sure, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (26:53)
Right? Like, why aren't we doing this? So anyway, I want to start watching for that myself. think we should all like I encourage all of us to start thinking about that. Like, where are we using language? And not because it's our fault, but because the language we've been given is language that helps to support the system.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's the
norm, yeah, that supports the status quo, yeah. So how can we change that?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (27:12)
language is very much a part of supporting systems. mean, just thinking about slavery, it's only recently that people have started to understand using human based language in that scenario of enslaved and enslavers versus slaves and slave owners forever. People and there many people who would still say, they're the same thing. It's the same, but. Thank you. Yeah, and it's it.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:15)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
But it's not the same thing. If it were the same thing, it would be the same word. It's a different word for a reason.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (27:40)
It helps to open our eyes to the humanity and the reality of that. And I think greedy versus rich does the same because greedy is clear in the same way. Enslavor is very different than slave owner, right? Enslavor is clear that I have chosen to take an action that is reducing someone else's humanity. I think greedy does the same thing because greedy means I am taking from others more than I need. Right. That is very
Taina Brown she/hers (27:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a
very active way, like to, it's a way to give people responsibility for where they are as opposed to being like, oh, this just happened. I just happened to be one of the 10 wealthiest people. I just happened to be a slave owner. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (28:25)
Right,
right. I like that and I want to find other places because I'm sure there's also plenty of them. I would imagine if I spent too much time thinking about things like sexual assault and things like that, there's probably a whole lot of places there where that language is still very much in support of the status quo. So I want to keep thinking about that for myself and then challenging myself to shift language and not for like, because, know, like I think we've done.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:38)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (28:52)
This is valid too, though. Even just like the gendered language, history, right? And I do hear people sometimes say herstory, but it's like, yeah, I don't know. I just think we don't think enough about language and how that is political. Going back to our Everything is Political series, which is starting very soon. Even language is political because it is supporting. It is part of the fabric that upholds and maintains the systems.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Very political.
I saw something a few weeks ago, Mariska Hargitay was on Call Her Daddy. She plays Olivia Vinson on Lauren Orta SVU. And she, yeah. And I don't really listen to Call Her Daddy. I just, I was introduced to Call Her Daddy by one of my students when I was teaching. She was like, I'm so embarrassed to tell you this, but I listen to Call Her Daddy. And I was like, why are you embarrassed about that? It's whatever. But.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (29:23)
I know, yeah. And her mom was some famous actress back in the day.
I've never listened to it,
We don't have to go and do.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:44)
But yeah, she was on the podcast and she was saying something similar about how we talk about rape. And I'm trying to look it up right now because she was like, what did she say?
⁓ so she, I just found it like a People Magazine article about it. She said instead of like, her thinking is like the way she shifts her thinking about rape, right? To be less focused on victimizing people and to put more responsibility on the person doing the assault is not I was raped, a man raped me, right? Like, because then the subject,
Right. And this goes to like sentence structure, to language, how we use language. Right. Yes, exactly. Then the subject, which bears the responsibility in a sentence, it moves from the person who was victimized to the person doing the victimization, right, to the person who made the assault. And so I...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (30:29)
It's active versus passive language.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:46)
It's insane to me that just like a shift, like small shifts like that can just like open up like the way that we think about what's happening, right? And so.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (30:59)
100%. It's so important. It's so important. I mean, you know what's interesting? So I come out of journalism background. In journalism, newspapers, you absolutely, it is drilled into you to use active language, not passive. So active is this caused this. This did this to this. Passive is this was done to, this was caused by. Right? So that's the difference in those types of language, sentence structures. And it is drilled into you to use active language.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:09)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, this happened, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (31:24)
And yet, if you look at newspapers over and over again, New York Times, where do they start using passive language? Notice it, because it's about maintaining those structures, because it it is active language until he raped her. No, no, we don't say that. Yes, he was raped. And some of that is they will probably claim it is because, well, we can't prove anything or whatever. There's still ways around that can say she
Taina Brown she/hers (31:37)
Yeah, yeah. no, she was raped. She was raped. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (31:51)
says he raped her, right? He alleges, huh? Right, he alleges she was, well, see, but then you say, yeah, but someone raped her. Exactly. I mean, but we don't do that. So it's just interesting watching for that, starting to notice. Like, I just think as I've always, like, I just am such a firm believer that awareness is the start of every change. You can't change what you can't see. And we don't, just, until we question things, notice things.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:52)
Yeah, yeah, or somebody raped her. Somebody raped her. Somebody raped her. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (32:18)
We
just accept it as that's how it is. But when you start to notice, you think, wait a minute, that is interesting, right? Like I was just at the doctor this last week for my wall woman exam. And as you know, you're sitting there naked waiting for them to come in and you've got this little flimsy piece of cloth over your, or a paper towel over your genitals. Anyway, you're sitting there like, okay, come in. They have a big thing on the wall about birth control and all the different forms of birth control and how effective they are.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
staying over your legs, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (32:45)
And I'm looking at this like all but one form of birth control puts the onus on the woman. There was one, exactly one, the condom, or two, if you call withdrawal of real method, it was on there. It wasn't recommended, but it was on there. So maybe two, but then that's also relying on the man to do it. But all these birth control methods and one was made for men. And again, you have to ask why, why? Because
Taina Brown she/hers (32:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Why?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (33:10)
It takes two to create a baby. You can't create the baby without the sperm. You can't recreate the baby without the egg. Both of those things have to be in the equation. Now, obviously sometimes that can happen outside of a physical interaction, but in a physical, you have to have both. You always have to have both of the things. Why is it that only one half of that is asked to, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:19)
Yeah.
bears the responsibility.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (33:32)
particularly when that half that's being asked to has internal organs that they can't actually even access the matter that helps to create the baby on the other one. Yet, like 99 % of the birth control methods are focused on her. And again, it's about that responsibility and it makes it seem that it is happening to her instead of it being made to happen, right?
Taina Brown she/hers (33:42)
Yeah, yeah. Whereas the other person can. Yeah.
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (33:59)
It's the the being made to happen piece that should be considered. again, this goes in all sorts of places, but certainly we see it around sex and sexual activity and in birth and, you know, the decisions around childbirth and child care and all of it. And it's just, I can't, I just. We have to question it. We have to question it. No. And when we do, we're often made to feel stupid.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, we don't question things enough.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (34:26)
So I mean, I do feel like I've been questioning birth control for a really long time. Like, why don't we have a pill for men? Why do I have to take the pill? Why can't he take a pill? Why aren't we both taking pills? And it's always been this like, well, you can't count on him to do it. And men don't remember things or he just decided he doesn't want to. And then he can, and then he'll just take off and you're left with the responsibility as if that's a good enough answer.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:31)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah. Okay, so then let's question that. Why are men like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (34:52)
Maybe we should talk about the why is it that that's okay and that he's allowed to just walk away instead
of it being like, ⁓ well, obviously, yeah, well, then of course I should have to be the one who has to deal with one remembering I should be, I have be the responsible one. We wonder why girls and women end up being that way, right? I should be that person and I should be the one who has to have my body bear the responsibility of hormones and of synthetic things being put into my body. Or in some cases,
Taina Brown she/hers (35:03)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (35:20)
metal things being put into my body. Painful procedures having to happen, right? Yeah, it's infuriating.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It
is, it really is. I also just want to point out, since we're talking about language and stuff like that, because I know a lot of, well, not a lot of, but I know obviously some other languages, some better than others. But when we're talking about active and passive, I know in some languages, that's...
Culturally, the way the language is set up is different than the way English is set up. So I think.
there's a place and time to question that as well. And so, but I think for like the conversation that we're having right now, like we're specifically, I just want to point out we're specifically talking about the English language, right? And how we, how that's how we communicate here in the U.S. because even in other places where they speak English communication is there are nuances, right? There's complexities, there's cultural differences. So.
talking about American English right now, but yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (36:20)
Passive and
active language may be very different in other languages as well. that structure is different, I know.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:24)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And
that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be interrogated in those places either. It definitely should. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (36:31)
Sure. mean, honestly,
again, well, no, no, it's not my place to say. I did take French for a long time and I did always wonder why the whole idea of gendered articles bothered me, why some things were le and some were la and how you decide what's feminine and masculine and all of that. Like it does feel like. And it feels like it's in some weird way still upholding these structures, but I never really get it felt so arbitrary. I couldn't figure out I'm like, why is the.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:35)
Ha
Yeah.
It's just, it's very arbitrary.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (36:59)
but library, a female and the, you know, whatever bookstores mail, those aren't correct, but you know what I mean? But anyway, but those aren't my languages to interrogate. And so I would just say that certainly there's enough issues inside the English language that we can just start there. But it does make me even want to examine, especially again, going back to being a parent and noticing the language that I'm using with my kid and the way I talk about things and to try and be more mindful.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (37:25)
If you haven't noticed, I tend to talk fast. think fast and talk fast. So I'm not always taking the time to interrogate that in real time, but I would like to do a better job of that with him. And even if not in real time, to notice and go back and just do some exploration with him. Why do you think we call this that? And kids are so good about that too. And then often our answers are like, well, I don't know. It's just how it is. Those are such opportunities to be like, yeah, what is that? Why? Who does that serve? Who benefits from us thinking about
Taina Brown she/hers (37:45)
Mm-hmm.
Let's think about it. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (37:53)
that way or whatever. So ⁓
Taina Brown she/hers (37:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (37:56)
as we wrap up, I want to share one other thing if I can. ⁓ I have decided I'm going to start something called the DGD. It is my
Taina Brown she/hers (37:58)
Yeah.
You're
starting something else.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (38:04)
Yeah.
Well, it's not a real, you'll see, it's not a thing. It's a thing, but it's not like a thing. Although I'll probably put some structure around it. I might even use an AI tool to help me. No, I'm kidding. No, my DGD is my daily good deed. And I am, I like that it's like a DGD. So here's what happened yesterday. I was at the gas station in the morning. I held the door open for this older man and I had to stand there for probably a few extras. It added like five seconds to my day in the grand scheme of things. Not a big deal. But in my normal life, I'm just zipping around. don't know. And I was like, old man,
Taina Brown she/hers (38:06)
Okay, okay. Okay.
Okay.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (38:32)
could hold the door for me. I not like this is a I do this a lot. But in that moment, I was just feeling very present yesterday, I think. And so I noticed myself doing it. I noticed that I could see in him that he smiled. And as I was doing, I was thinking, oh, good, I did my daily good deed. And I was like, oh, my DGD. Like, I don't know, my brain just kind of got and I was like, I want to make that a thing. I was like, I'm going to start doing I want to start like being more intentional about my good deeds. Because I noticed that when I do that one.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:39)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (39:01)
It lasts with me, it sticks with me, I notice it. It also reminds me of agency because I am somebody who can get really nihilistic. This whole conversation is another place where, again, I can get pretty nihilistic. I can be like, AI, the robots are going to kill us all, so who cares, right? Or whatever the thing is, I can really quickly spiral into that kind of a place of it's all ending anyway. When I do something small that makes someone else smile, I remember
Taina Brown she/hers (39:02)
Yeah, yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (39:27)
I do have agency to create some change, even if it's small. Those, as my son was telling me yesterday, actually, I that was this morning on the drive to school. I love my kids so much. He was like, mom, do you know that if I, cause we were holding hands, this is so cute, we we hold hands. We were holding hands in the car as I was driving him to school. And he was like, and he took his hand away and he said, mom, you know, if I don't hold your hand, now the future is different than it was gonna be if I was holding your hand.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:30)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (39:52)
And I said, really? He's like, everything we do changes the course of history. Like, each little thing changes things. And I was like, my god, I know. And so anyway, I was like, ⁓ yeah, it's kind of the sliding doors theory. So we were talking about this this morning. And I was like, yeah, it's a ripple effect. Everything does. Realities can be different. And he's like, if I went back in time and then I held her again the whole way, would be a very different. I would have a different day or whatever. And I was like, wow. So it made me think of that, of like all these little ripple effects. If I do the one thing, especially when I start my day with a good deed,
Taina Brown she/hers (39:58)
What a little philosopher.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (40:20)
I noticed
that it just changes that trajectory of the day for me, especially when I'm present about it. So giving it a name helps me be more present. Like if I can be like, there's my DGD, he did it. You know, like it becomes like a fun thing. It's gamified. Gamifying works really well for the way my brain works. So anyway, I'm like, I'm gonna start doing that. I'm gonna try and get my kid involved and get him to do DGDs. And like, I'm like, at the end of the day, we're gonna sit down and talk about what were your DGDs today and like make it a whole thing because I'm feeling in this heavy world.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:24)
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (40:47)
a greater
need to find ways to shine the light on positivity for myself, not in that toxic fake way, but to say, where do I have agency to create joy? And not just for myself, because again, right? That's why it's like, I'm not just trying to figure out how can I bring some light to my day. I want to think about where's the agency to create some change that actually has those ripple effects. Because if I do that, then maybe that guy goes in and now he's smiling and he smiles to the guy at the cashier. And then that cashier is like,
Taina Brown she/hers (40:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, but for people, yeah, for people around you.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (41:15)
that interaction makes him feel a little bit better and then he's a little bit nicer to the next guy, right? Like, so anyway, I just wanted to share that, that that's where my head is at right now. And I'm like, if I make it into like bit of a game and I give it a little name and I like talk about it more, then maybe it becomes a thing I really do start to really stick with. And I want to see if I notice a change in how I feel because fucking hell if the world doesn't feel in really hard.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:20)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
You
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Have you done one today?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (41:40)
I have not yet, but I've been thinking about it. So I thought about it. was like, I went to the gas station again today. I go and I get a soda most mornings. OK, fine. I need caffeine. Leave me alone. And so I went this morning and there was nobody to hold the door open for. And I remember thinking, no. And then I was like, wait a minute, Becky. You have to challenge yourself to not just have it be holding the door open every time because that's like a little too easy. And I was like, OK. Then I thought, ⁓ I could do a pay it forward today maybe. So that's where my head was at before our call was thinking about like, maybe I'll go out somewhere today and like,
Taina Brown she/hers (41:42)
Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (42:07)
pay it forward for somebody. Like, buy whoever's behind me, whatever. Something like that. But I did think about it, and it did get me thinking of like, okay, this is fun because now I'm challenging myself to be like, I don't want it to just be every day I hold the door open for somebody and now I'm like, because that doesn't really feel in the spirit of what I'm trying to do.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:08)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't want to be, you want it to be prescriptive.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (42:26)
Yeah, I want it to be interesting and organic. And my goal is for it to have me thinking about it. And then ultimately, like, I'd love for my kid and I to be challenging each other to see who can get the most in the day. Because if you're really doing that, that means all day you really are bringing awareness to this and you're trying to do good things. What a different world when you're actually like showing up that way. I know it probably sounds really trite and simple, but honestly, it has felt revolutionary for me in the last 24 hours. So I'm excited.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Well,
I think it goes back to that you feel like you had a choice in that, you know, and that feels good. That feels good when you're like, ⁓ I actually chose this. I chose something good, not just for myself, but for somebody else also. that, people underestimate how good that can feel. And especially in a time like now where
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (43:09)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:12)
It feels like you just don't have a choice in a lot of things. Well, I have something happy to share too, not, kind of along the same lines, not doing good for other people, but because it's spring, we spent the weekend in the garden and just kind of trimming the rose bushes and putting down some new fertilizer and just cleaning things up and.
And that was, that felt really good to just kind of like get back into the dirt. like we, there's a portion in front of our, by our front door that it's just like, it's really, it's, mean, it's really just like, it's just loose dirt and there's like, there's bushes on the side, but there's nothing in the front. And so it was just like an empty plot. So we went to this like, place downtown is called Second Chance. And it's just this huge warehouse.
with like people donate all kinds of stuff, like home stuff and doors and like that's where we got our front door when we got it replaced a few weeks ago. And they have like pavers. So we got pavers and just kind of did like a little nice little brick paver situation in the front and I planted some flowers there and yeah. And so I'm like looking forward now to like what's gonna grow and.
and what the garden's gonna look like this summer. like, it's gonna be a good summer. And we had two plants that we bought, Jesus, I think fucking two years ago, that I'd never put in the ground. And if we put them in the ground this weekend.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (44:34)
gardening.
Well, and I remember, mean, two years ago, I remember you talking about how much you love to garden and stuff. And then I know you've had some health issues and other things that have come up that have probably made that challenging. So I'm excited for you to be able to get your hands dirty again this year and like get out there because I think in both cases, a lot of what we're talking about here is just being present. And it's amazing. Again, like it can sound.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (44:57)
too simple and a little trite for people, think, especially when you're really dealing with the worst of stuff. And I get that. And like, I fully honor all that. But and being present changes so much. And you feel like you don't have agency. But honestly, even in the worst of things where we the agency we do have is can I show up and just be present in this moment? Because in this moment, am I OK? Like it.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:58)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (45:22)
And I might be hurting. mean, there may still be a lot of things, but I'm alive. The person I love is there or whatever. Right. Like, and I know that's like, like, it's so hard because when you talk about it, it does feel almost toxic positivity. And it's not. It's like I want to honor.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:25)
Yeah.
It's not, it's
not. Yeah, it's about just being like, as you said, present in your body, feeling that like, I mean, it took me out. Like I was like, had to just kind of chill for like, I mean, it's been three days since that. And I'm still like, okay, when, when am I going to feel better? But it was, it was worth it. Cause just like, for that, like that, that those hours of just kind of like feeling really embodied and just kind of there as opposed to just like,
what do we have to do? We gotta do this. We gotta do, like just being in my head all the time.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (46:04)
It takes
you out of that reactive state. even when everything is hard, if you can get back to a place of feeling less reactive and more responsive and more ⁓ finding any little shred of agency you can, it does change things. I'm not saying it makes everything better. It doesn't change the world around you, but it can make how you are feeling. It can help you control your cortisol levels and some of those things where it's like you can take the world can be on fire and you can either.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (46:32)
have a heart attack because you're seeing the fire and you're letting your body do that, or you can at least find your bit of peace and let the fire continue. Because the fire is happening either way. Do you want to have a heart attack because of the fire or not? I guess is sort of what I'm saying. And like, I'm honoring that the fire is there, but where do we find our ways to say, I'm not going to let it mean that I also have a heart attack? You know what I mean? Well, I love that. Get in the garden. OK.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:35)
Or you can be at peace. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (46:57)
Thanks everyone, this was really random, also it's always kind of inspiring by the end. So thanks, Taina.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:01)
Yeah.
Thanks.