Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast

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Recorded at Ten86 Lounge in Hawthorne, New Jersey the lizards pair the Partagás Serie E No. 2 with Ommegang Hennepin Belgian Style Farmhouse Saison. The lizards debate the impact of Cuban factory codes on cigar quality, they do a deep dive on Belgian beer, and they present a conspiracy theory about the release of this cigar and the Cohiba Behike.

Join the Lounge Lizards for a weekly discussion on all things cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban), whiskey, food, travel, life and work. This is your formal invitation to join us in a relaxing discussion amongst friends and become a card-carrying Lounge Lizard yourself. This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.

website/merch/rating archive: loungelizardspod.com
email: hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
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What is Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast?

Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.

The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.​

This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.

Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!

**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster Poobah, Senator Pagoda grinder, and bam bam, a full house of lizards.

And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some beer, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 82nd official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We are gonna smoke a Cuban cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.

We debate the impact of Cuban factory codes on cigar quality. We do a deep dive on Belgian beer, and we present a conspiracy theory about the release of this cigar and the cohiba bke all along. A variety of other things for the next 90 minutes. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair Oma Gang Hennepin.

Belgian style farmhouse stays on with the Parus series E number two. A [00:01:00] Robusto extra from RGUs tonight on the pod. The series E number two, it's 54 ring gauge by five and a half inches. Mm-hmm. The factory name is the Duke, which we've talked about before. We did the, actually we did the Duke Regional Punch Punch by Punch Punch and uh, the another popular one in the same exact size is the Oliar Sonos.

Mm-hmm. It's identical, but this is actually the only regular production cigar out of the Havanas catalog that is made in this exact size. Very cool. Which is interesting. Yeah. Beautiful. Cigar boys. We love RGUs on the pod. We do

**Bam Bam:** big fans. Alphabet series are all legendary cigars. They

**Gizmo:** are. All right, let's cut this thing.

See we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper.

I haven't had an E two in a while. Kind of falling out of love with bigger ring gauge cigars, which is no secret, but I know you guys think I'm crazy. We'll see how this goes tonight. Nice cold draw. Hmm. [00:02:00] Cold draw's great.

**Bam Bam:** I have never had a bad E two.

**Gizmo:** Same. I have not either.

**Poobah:** I've had a lot of them. Same.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. I just don't love the, the mouth feel without ring gauge, you know,

**Bam Bam:** lot of directions. I can go with that.

**Gizmo:** So what are you guys getting on the cold draw?

**Bam Bam:** A slight dessert ounce I'm getting. Mm-hmm.

**Gizmo:** Mm-hmm. Little vanilla, little cedar, maybe. Cedar. Yeah,

**Senator:** definitely cedar.

**Bam Bam:** Like sweet cedar. It's pleasant. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. It tastes like a humidor. Yeah. All right, boys, let's light this thing, the part Siri, E number two out of Cuba.

Again, it's 54 ring gauge by five and a half inches long. Beautiful cigar, dark oily wrapper. And, uh, I've been actually really looking forward to this cigar on the pod. You know, we've done a lot of parus. Certainly I think it's the cigar, the, the, the marker that we've [00:03:00] done the most cigars from.

**Bam Bam:** It takes a while to light it.

Yeah. With your single flame later. Yes it does.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's, it's called the

**Rooster:** number two, but it's not a pyramid.

**Gizmo:** It is not, yeah. That's what's

**Senator:** actually bizarre to me. There's only this, and there's a bva number two, um, are like the only ones that are not pyramids. Let me look this up cuz I was looking at this.

I don't know why they create this con Well, we know why they create confusion. That's what AK does. But it's the oliar as specialist number two. That, and this are the only number twos that are not pyramids. Is that

**Gizmo:** a regular production boulevard?

**Senator:** I'm not sure. It's a lenaro actually. That

**Gizmo:** can't be, that can't be in regular production.

Maybe it's, I haven't seen that. I've never heard of that. Bva. Lenaro.

**Senator:** Oliar is specials number two. Look it up. It's

**Rooster:** Len. I will. Because Well, yeah. Well, Monte Christo makes an

**Gizmo:** esbe. That's a, it's like a, uh, is that a Len? It's a Lenaro. Yeah. Yeah. We should do it. Hmm. This is really nice on the white boys. This is

**Grinder:** awesome.

I've never had any too. [00:04:00] Really?

**Poobah:** Wow. You're in for treat.

**Gizmo:** Mm-hmm. Me too. The thing that Senator always says is that when he wants to be a chimney after a rough day, this is the cigar

**Senator:** you go to. This is the cigar every single time. I mean, for me, uh, I'm not in G'S camp where I don't like, I, I think you kind of dislike 54 ring gauge sticks.

I'm, I don't feel that way, but where I guess we have something in common is I don't reach for them as often as I do robusto or other sizes. But after a long day when you just want a lot of smoke output, this, a cutie 54, anything 54 ring gauge, you really get that. But for some reason, to me, the, the RGUs E two, I get the dude most combustion of any 54 ring

**Bam Bam:** gauge dude, we just lit up and the room are already full of smoke.

Yeah. And that's not, that's not a lie. Yeah, it's right here. No, it's definitely for the listener. It's

**Gizmo:** full of smoke. Yeah. This is definitely the cigar right

**Rooster:** away. Brings me to pub's

**Gizmo:** deck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that,

**Rooster:** that, that evening we played golf when we got there, and I think it was, you have the E two s out of a five pack.

**Gizmo:** It was a. Well, that's the funny

**Senator:** thing. A final, [00:05:00] it was a l u

**Poobah:** B five pack 14

**Senator:** l b. Do they, they only come in, uh, semi boy nature five count or the 25. I've only bought them in box of 25. But like you're saying, when we were in pub's yard, he had that five count. That was amazing. But they come in, they come in two bows.

They come in two bows too. Two that they release later. Yeah. So this basically the cigars released in 2011 at the Havanas Festival, Gizmo's favorite event every year. He'll be back every year. And, uh, when they, when they released it, it was just the five count and 25 in the semi boy nature. Then in 2016, they came out with the tubo in the, uh, the little cartons of three cardboard packs.

16 total. Yeah.

**Poobah:** And those I guys, those, um, tubo are, you get your hands on them, man. That's what, that's the only two I have. Each tube is super duper delicious.

**Bam Bam:** That's, but they're also, they're so pristine. The rappers are perfect. Yeah. There's no imperfections in the tubo.

**Poobah:** I find, I find there's no, I, I don't find much of a difference here.

But the um, These are something about the tube when they touch [00:06:00] tube. Sometimes. Sometimes when the, when they, the tube just makes a difference. I'm not sure exactly. Maybe it's cuz it's so close to the cedar cuz it's a cedar line tube. But, um, I've had that, that experience with, with, with uh, epi tubes. I've had good experience in tubes and particularly with E two s I've had good experience with tubes.

Tubes are great on the,

**Rooster:** on the group today, on the Facebook group. Somebody posted was having an E two, it was a 2022 and he said it was fantastic.

**Gizmo:** It's not surprising about it. Yeah. Not surprisings been a good run. We've talked about. Talked about that.

**Grinder:** Yeah.

**Bam Bam:** These young are pretty good. Yeah. Age

**Gizmo:** that just get better.

I gotta say the presentation, uh, when Poobah had that five count Sam boy nature box, there's something really. Classy, elegant, sexy about the presentation in the five count wooden box. It's beautiful. I just love the how,

**Bam Bam:** you know what? It's, it's a perfect little gift for somebody. [00:07:00] Yes. The size is awesome.

It's very sexy.

**Poobah:** Yeah. And the wooden box is cool cause it's a small wooden box. It's so cool. Yeah, it's a really cool,

**Gizmo:** this is a revelation. Oh, cool. There you go. I had a feeling you were gonna love the cigar. I'm surprised you have never

**Rooster:** had this.

**Poobah:** Well, you know, they're, they, they're not like ubiquitous. Yeah.

So this cigar is not, it's not especially, it's not super easily sourced. They don't make a ton of 'em. Um,

**Grinder:** especially now, I'll tell you what though, I'm really. I'm really struggling to pinpoint the tasting notes,

**Senator:** really. And it, but I love them.

**Gizmo:** To me, this is, to me, this is the, uh, the cousin of the D four. I think they're very much in line with one another blend wise.

Um, I think this is a little bit more desserty. It's more sour,

**Rooster:** more creamy and cedar. It's a lot

**Senator:** more creamy and a little sweeter. You don't get much spice on this cigar like you do that like baking spice in a D four. Who said sourdough? I

**Bam Bam:** did. I think that's right on the money.

**Poobah:** Yeah. For me. And one of the things I really enjoy.

Yeah, you're [00:08:00] totally sourdough. Yeah. And one of the things I enjoy about this save versus the P two. No, no, we don't, we don't have to go down that rabbit hole.

**Bam Bam:** I was waiting for someone to mention that this, um,

**Gizmo:** this for the listener. We had a, we had a war off air

**Senator:** last week about the pizza buckle up. This is about to be a three.

I think it's gonna happen. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** Well, we're not gonna do it tonight.


**Poobah:** the, the, the P two in, in my view, is a stronger smoke. It's more of a harrow heavy in the blend or in the ratio. Rather so agree with that. The ratio of LA Herro in the P two, um, I think is, is higher than it is, than the trimmings in, in the filler in this cigar.

And I think that this, for my palette really, it, it, it really hits all the notes. I mean, if I could kind of get more of 'em and easier and if I wasn't as lazy, um, I would like to, um, but I just haven't been able to

**Gizmo:** score a box that easily. I haven't seen many of these at all.

**Poobah:** No, recently. You what I mean?


**Grinder:** Recently. I think I got it. What's that? You know, those, [00:09:00] um, has, have you guys

**Senator:** flown Delta? Yeah. Yeah. You know those

**Gizmo:** cookies they give you? Oh, the Stroop waffle? No, that's United. That's united. That's united. Cause that's what they do. Those are good though. We're such losers. Are we talking? No, no. That Cookie's United Good.

That's from Lutan,

**Senator:** which is their partner. That's the

**Grinder:** Strope Waffle is very delicious. I'm sorry. Uh, yes. Let me correct you with my Dutch,

**Gizmo:** uh, I knew that was coming. Yeah. You're gonna have to tell me how to spell that in episode description. The,

**Senator:** uh,

**Grinder:** no, it's like, um, it's like this biscuit. It's like a, I think it might be called a biscuit on the wrapper, but it's like this.

Brown biscuit.

**Gizmo:** It's, is it in a red and white package? It is. Oh,

**Senator:** that's where they serve in America. Biscoff, Biscoff bi. That's on American flights. They sell those at Costco as well. There you go. Those massive. I'm getting, you're an American flyer and you didn't even know it. I'm getting

**Gizmo:** Costco owned Delta bis.

Biscoff Cookie.

**Grinder:** Yeah.

**Gizmo:** I'm getting some Biscoff cookie. I think you're totally on the money. I like it. And with that, I think, you know, obviously we're, we're [00:10:00] drinking that, we're gonna have this with beer tonight, but with scotch, with beer Sure. With coffee. That's a home run. This cigar is a home run. Should we do some beer?

Can we do that? Yeah,

**Senator:** let's do it. Yeah, do it. So, uh, we're pairing with this the, uh, OMA Gang Hennepin, which is a farmhouse Aza el and, uh, the brewery is actually not too far from us. It's, uh, in Cooperstown, New York where the, uh, baseball Hall of Fame is nice. And, uh, there's a little story how I got into Oma Gang.

So I visited, uh, Belgium for the first time in maybe 2014, somewhere around there. And, um, I didn't know what to expect. I was not that excited to visit Brussels. I thought it would be relatively boring. I was in Paris, London, Munich before that, which I thought would be more exciting. Brussels was the sleeper for me.

I think it's one of the most underrated cities in Europe. And I was with a coworker of mine who is a huge Belgian beer fan. And I like beer, but I'm not as passionate about beer as I am. Wine or, or [00:11:00] scotch or, or other things. So, um, we did a kind of beer tour through Brussels, all these amazing breweries.

And I got really into Belgian beer from that trip. So I come home and like any of us, and we go on a trip, it's like we come back to Cuba. What do we want to drink? Cuban rub. I come back from Brussels, what am I craving? Belgian beer. And so some places have some good stuff that you can buy. So I was able to find that.

But I was just curious if there were any American breweries that like made something close to real Belgian style beer. And my coworker had recommended Ooma Gang and there's a really cool story. So Oma Gang. Um, First the name. I mean, this is like a very, I think Poobah thought it was, uh, what did you think the name was earlier?

What did I say? Doppelganger.

**Poobah:** Doppelganger. Doppelganger. I was just joking. Yeah. I was like, what is that doppelganger?

**Senator:** So I have, I had no idea what this even means, but there's actually a story behind this. So, uh, when the, uh, Roman Emperor visited Brussels in 1549, locals lined up around the city walls and they had a celebration as the [00:12:00] entourage passed by and the parade became known as the Oma gang, which apparently means coming together and walking about.


**Gizmo:** this is what happens, by the way, when Senator and Grindr go to dc It's a big parade.

**Grinder:** But that's what I said. I said, uh, Dopel. Ganger is, is, uh, double person. So two people who go and, but that's the German. He's talking about the low, low Prussian Dutch or low, low German Dutch.

**Senator:** Uh, so then as far as like how the brewery came to be, the Belgian breweries, uh, Duvelle, I'm sure we're all familiar with, um, and, uh, a bunch of others.

They wanted to build an authentic Belgian style, uh, farmstead brewery. They picked Cooperstown to do it. They built it on 140 acre hop farm in the Susquehanna Valley, only 140. Just 140. Jesus. And their whole thing was to try to bring like true Belgian style beer. Produced in America. Mm-hmm. And from any Belgian beer drinkers.

I know they swear this is as close as it gets. Having [00:13:00] drank a lot of Belgian beer in Belgium. This is the closest thing I found to it. I, I love this. Uh, the Hennepin for me is like, kind of slots year round. I love it. At, at really almost any time, but they make a bunch of different beers. Like one of their heavier ones, it's a, a Belgian quad, uh, three philosophers is a very good one.

Mm-hmm. They have an Abby l uh, this is Hennepin. Um, they do have a cool

**Bam Bam:** website. Oh, I haven't even a lot of options.

**Grinder:** Hmm. They make a

**Gizmo:** lot. Yeah, they do. Yeah. What's the

**Rooster:** difference between a Belgian beer and.

**Gizmo:** Grinder Grinder.

**Grinder:** Um, well, there's not as a Belgian beer. And what though?

**Gizmo:** Well,

**Rooster:** is it, is I thought it made in like a lagr

**Senator:** or, I mean, here, here's, so this is, can I, can I give like the very dumb version and then you make, you give the smart version?

Mine's probably dumb as though, I don't know. No, it's gonna be way smarter than what I'm saying. To me, the very dumb version, so I mentioned, I was in Munich, Germany, right before I was in Brussels and in Munich I went to the Hoff Brow house. And you drink all this German beer. [00:14:00] German beer is super light.

You have to drink gallons of it to even get a buzz and it's

**Gizmo:** warm. Isn't it Room rooms? No, no room

**Grinder:** temperatures. No,

**Bam Bam:** no, no. Depends on where you are in Germany. It depends. Yeah, that's

**Grinder:** true. It's

**Senator:** very true. Yeah. Um, and so it's just very, very light. Like many of the loggers that we would be familiar with, you go to Brussels and anywhere in Belgium, Belgian beer is, Dr is higher alcohol.

It's drank in smaller quantities because it's higher alcohol and um, it's just a richer, fuller drinking experience. So like, you know, when you, you poured the beer, and I remember this, a woman who was leading this beer tour around Brussels and. It's very important that you have like a really thick, creamy head on the beer.

Um, and there's just like so much flavor and so many notes that you get in these beers where like a lot of other beers are like very simple and meant to just be enjoyed in quantity, right? Like you would have a, you, you would sling back like six German beers and you'd feel great. Like you have six of these.

You're gonna feel, oh, you're gonna, you're gonna feist. Yeah. It look,

**Gizmo:** it looks, it [00:15:00] looks

**Pagoda:** thicker. I would

**Gizmo:** say that, you

**Rooster:** know, it seems like

**Pagoda:** denser than it

**Grinder:** is. It's, it is. So I would say the biggest difference is that by tradition, Belgian beer is traditionally bottle fermented ale. German beer is traditionally, Um, uh, uh, top fermented loggers.

So it's a lot of pilsners. And one of the differentiators there is that these are the two countries that proliferated beer in beer culture around the world. Uh, German beer is, um, obliged by the Rhine Husk boat, which is, you can only have four ingredients to beer, and that's the only way you can make beer.

And then they'd have different variations. And Germans always say, well, what, what's the difference of, of beer across Germany? Well, it's in the water. So the water from Hamburg is different from Cologne versus Dosel door versus Munich versus wherever, which is a little bit of bs, but

**Gizmo:** they, it's kinda like bagels around here.


**Grinder:** probably. Yeah. Um, [00:16:00] but Belgian beer is traditionally ill, um, bottle fermented. Um, and it's, as a result, a lot of the sugars get more, uh, compounded and there's, there's more alcohol as a result. Um, and because of that bottle fermentation, there's a lot more carbonation and, um, they're not obliged by a reho boat boat.

Uh, so they have some more flexibility in adding different spices to their beer, for example. So that's where you get a lot of those complex and nuanced flavor profiles that he was speaking about. The fact that it's also bottle fermented just adds that extra layer of complexity and it makes it kind of more viscous.

Hmm. So they actually

**Gizmo:** add flavors. Well, they're

**Grinder:** not adding No, no, it's not adding spices, flavors, spice, spice. They're adding, they're adding different spices or, you know, they'll put some cor during process, coriander in there or, or stuff like that. So like, coriander's right on the

**Bam Bam:** money for this guy,

**Grinder:** a bit for me.

So like, you look at, I mean to, he was talking about one of the first, uh, Belgian style [00:17:00] breweries. It's actually, Allagash is kind of like the first one. Mm-hmm. That's true in America. True. Um, and that's a nice deal. I think. I think those guys in Belgians say, look it, w we, we, we are ma we make Belgian beer.

We're the Belgians. And,

**Senator:** um, and Allagash has some good Belgian style stuff. Like they're Belgian triples actually. Very good. It's

**Grinder:** delicious. Well, I mean, they're, they're, I, I, I visited that brewery and it's a phenomenal experience and they are so welcoming. Whoever, if you ever get a chance to go up there and, and visit that brewery, strong recommend.

Um, and one of the best beers I've ever had was a, Uh, they called it table beer. And it, it's not something they marketed. They just made it. And it was just this very simple LA uh, it was an ale, but it was a darker ale. It was a, it was lower alcohol, so easy drinking. They make a lot of different beers. Uh, the Alga White, is that what it's called?

Alga? Yeah, Allagash White. That, that was kind of like the, the first beer in America. That was Belgian style that really took hold. And that's [00:18:00] still like their best. That's like their premier mar, you know, their premier, uh, you know, market or whatever. Um, But, but, uh, this saison is delicious. I mean, saisons are predominantly from Lesh.

They're, is that what this is? This is a saison, I think. Okay. Am I is that what you said? Yeah, that's exactly right. Nice. Um, and you know, they have, um, I'm not really like, it's, it's, it's of the season. I think it's really just like, that's the kind of style of beer of, of beer that they have. Um, there might be specific, I think there's, there's less of a certain kind of barley that they put in it that makes it, that alters the fermentation slightly.

I, I

**Bam Bam:** gotta, I gotta say, sorry. The, both the cigar and the beer have an incredibly beautiful dessert finish. Yeah. And they're both long on the finish. I capture the dessert note in a cigar, of course, with the retro hale, but on the beer, on the finish, it's beautiful, beautiful dessert. And I get that coriander.

**Senator:** You get [00:19:00] that. And the other thing for me it's crazy, is like, I think the E two has a little bit of a creaminess, especially as you That's right. Further along. Yeah. And this beer, I mean, you almost just like, kind of swirling your mouth before you, like really taste it. It's got a creamy finish too. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a

**Bam Bam:** fantastic pairing.

**Poobah:** What I like about it is, um, it's kind of a retired beer drinker. I don't drink as much beer as I used to. Mm-hmm. Um, I, that retired, I used to drink a lot of beer. Um, what I kind of like about this is that it's, um, it's hoppy, but it's not like India. Pale, hoppy. No. It's like round, like you definitely taste the hops in it.

But you're not getting this, like, not that that like an India, like an IPA is, is bad. It just, I think an IPA would like almost overpower the cigar. Yeah, definitely. Where there's this hoppy note and it's great and it's kind of tells you that it's there, but it's so rounded out that I think it's very, very and pleasant and balanced.

**Gizmo:** And I think the other thing that's missing versus an IPA is like the citrus, [00:20:00] citrus heavy. This is true type

**Senator:** of flavor. Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, but, but Poobah on the, the hoppy piece, I think it's an important note. Like that's one of the things that's like very different from, I mean really all like European beer, um, but especially Belgian beer, like you are never going to have a Belgian beer that is like aggressively hoppy, that is like the antithesis of kind of the Belgian style, but you taste it.

You taste it a little bit, but it's not, there's nothing bitter about this. No. You're getting dessert notes on the finish, but Poobah, that

**Bam Bam:** creaminess, he makes a good point about the IPAs in general. You do get a little bit of bitterness depending on the ipa, but I would not, we got a lot of bitterness in the ipa.

I would not have an

**Poobah:** extremely balanced, it's excellent, but, but I can taste the hops in here. It tastes

**Grinder:** like an am I'll tell you what, I, I don't taste hops. Not at all. Really? Uh, I don't get any

**Senator:** hops. To me it's faint. It's not any, I don't,

**Grinder:** I, this is, you know, this is for me, I think, I swear I, it has to be some kind of combination or ratio of the, the malt versus barley.

Mm-hmm. Because it's, I think that's [00:21:00] what drives it. Um, and CNS are actually traditionally low alcohol. So I don't know what the alcohol is on this actually, but I do know that modern CNS are kinda

**Senator:** low for Belgian. This is Pub 7.7. Yeah, so it's 7.7. That's pub, that's pub rated. I mean the, the like American stuff we drink is at like three, 4%.

Yeah. So it's like, this is, I mean, Grindr's, right? It is on the lower end, but that just tells you how high the alcohol content can get in a lot of Belgian beers. I mean, it's not uncommon to drink a beer that's like 10, 12% alcohol even, right. Duval

**Grinder:** it's, which is my favorite is what is that? That's a great beer too.

That might be seven and a half actually. I, I don't know what it is, but it's awesome. Awesome. That is the, that is the, in my view, that is the pinnacle of Belgian beer. That Orva is a tremendous bottle fermented beer. Um, some are bigger bottles, right? No, they're small. They're

**Senator:** small bottles. Which, which they all, they make them all in like bigger wine size bottles.

So what are, what

**Poobah:** are the mainstream, there's dove, but what are the mainstream Belgian beers that are like [00:22:00] not

**Grinder:** Well, the most mainstream is still artois. Yeah, but that's, oh, that's like drinking. But that's lun. I mean, that's not even, I mean, that's not, that's a locker. It's pissy. It's alars a locker that like it is one of the best in Belgium tasting.

**Senator:** It's great. I'm No, no, no. I love Stella. Just so we're clear, I'm not exaggerating. If you visit Belgium, you will not find Stella. Anywhere. They don't drink it. They don't respect

**Gizmo:** it. You don't wanna, they have a lot of Stella Bam Patterson. They do. The thing

**Poobah:** is, but I mean like, I mean like Duvelle, like traditional Belgian, you went to Paste.

They have, I remember at Paste, Hey, I was born in Patterson. Man,

**Bam Bam:** Duvel on tap. I'm a P-town man.

**Poobah:** Oh God. In the summer, the famous Belgian Pist Stro in Chelsea, I remember they'd have Duvale and Tapa. What are the other ones

**Grinder:** that people drink? I would say, I would say Grim Barragan's pretty popular there.

**Senator:** There's one we're missing. That's like just almost as popular as Duvelle. Um, Chama. Chama. Chama is, yeah, that one. You see that Chama is probably

**Grinder:** the, the, the Chama Blue is a very, is a very like, oh, premier brand. But, uh, Duvale or VA delirium. [00:23:00] Delirium is actually wonderful because it's a newer brewery, uh, from, well, newer, it's still like, so 1970s or something.

**Senator:** Funny thing about delirium. So when you're in Brussels, uh, delirium has this, like, that's the best, huge, huge, huge, uh, like it's a complex, it's amazing Actually. It's unno, you should call it a bar. I mean, it's just, it's, it's amazing. Insane. It is. Got the single largest collection of distinct beers of anywhere in the world.

That's cool. I went there when I was in Brussels. It's unbelievable. Awesome. You have, you will never seen more different beers anywhere. It's, it's crazy.

**Grinder:** It's, it's, the funny thing is for how, for how much a claim it gets. You go there and it's not like it's a tourist trap. No, you're right. It's like, it was like, it was oddly low crowds and everyone's telling us to go there, and I'm showing like, okay, it's gonna be like the, the worst.

And it was like, so chill. We're sitting in this alleyway outside of it. I'm like, this is so inconspicuous. It's so low key. And I think that adds to the [00:24:00] appeal of the experience as well. But delirium makes a wonderful beer. The tr ends is so, so freaking good. Number one. And

**Poobah:** is that a, that's a tradi, that's like an older Belgian beer.

That's an,

**Grinder:** it's a newer brewery. Newer ish. But it's, it's, it's definitely a very traditional Belgian style because the,

**Poobah:** the name seems so modern.

**Grinder:** Oh, it's, it was Latin. Yeah. I

**Poobah:** mean, no, but I mean, I don't, yeah, I don't know. It just seems like it would be, but yeah, so that's been around for a


**Senator:** Not as long as some of these others.

**Grinder:** I mean, these, these be, I mean the, the, the traditional Belgian brands that I mentioned, like Dulls been around forever. They were, they, they've been around when they were abbey's and monasteries. Wow. I mean, they were, that's, and that's, that's where all the money was going. And they would have to, they would, they would also brew the beer for the population.

So like,

**Poobah:** is Duvel still, like, is it still privately owned or is it part of It's gotta be a big, some big, huge conglomerate.

**Grinder:** It's a widely strip. It might be owned by ab, I'm not sure. [00:25:00] Oh, oh,

**Senator:** BYZ bus. Or if that's not, it's not ab

**Grinder:** actually. Hey, Bev.

**Gizmo:** Ab,

**Poobah:** someone was telling me, I forget who it was, it was you, Senator, that one of the hardest things to do in making beer is when you're making beer in these large quantities and to be

**Grinder:** consistent American light beer, because you cannot hide, you cannot hide it with other ingredients.

Yeah. Right. It's pure and it has to be consistent. Right? Yeah. You can't, you could when you, when you have that and, and it's a very specific alcohol content.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Minimal, minimal ingredients. But like, would a,

**Poobah:** would a, would like a brand like Duvelle, I mean they, in, in at scale, it's probably pretty hard to make Hmm.

**Senator:** Uh, mean no, this, well, I mean they, they, they're all hard to make. But what we were saying on another episode about light beer. Light beer is harder to make. Like this stuff is easier. Sure. But it's still not easy. Right. It's

**Grinder:** still not easy. I would say on scale they can certainly do it, but you're, you're displacing some of the traditional supply chain [00:26:00] operations because you're bottle fermenting the beer as opposed to.

Using large vat industrial vats. Mm-hmm.

**Senator:** The last thing I wanna say about Belgian beer, and then we should get back to the cigar. Yes. Oh, yeah. Um, one of the things that, this ties to a topic we've talked about on a prior episode that I very much appreciated is as I'm going on this beer tour through Brussels, uh, the woman leading it was militant.

And you will see this at every bar You go in Belgium, you go to an American bar and order a beer, whatever the most, the nearest clean glass is, that's what they're gonna pour it in. You could order, uh, Stella, and they're gonna pour in a glass that says Bud Light on it. Right? Like, they don't care. In Belgium, it is like a crime to not to, you have to pour whatever the brand is you're drinking.

If you're drinking shme, it is meant to be served in a special shme glass that has certain dimensions that is meant to. Enhance, enhance, enhance aroma, and make sure the beer opens up in exactly the right way. Not too much or, or too little. Mm-hmm. [00:27:00] Um, all of their beers, like they're huge on stemware and they're in these beautiful glasses.

Like they're not, they're taking it seriously. They are. Senator

**Grinder:** Senator was at home. Do you know why? Do you know why? Because back in the day, in the 13, 14, and 15 hundreds, they couldn't rely on a sophisticated supply chain. So you had these fat monks making their own fucking glasses, and as a result, the brand.

Of the glassware, they developed their own specific glassware in stemware. So that was associated with this, this, this saison from Lesh or this, uh, logger from Luve or whatever. So they had very specific mo, you know, monastery branded glasses. Hmm. But also like, but then that transformed itself into like, oh, but it's, you know, we're amplifying this, we're doing this.

**Senator:** Yeah. Because it has utility. I mean, that's the thing, like for me, as I'm experiencing all this and tasting these beers, like if you pour a lager in a glass, there's no tremendous nose that you get from a lager. Right. A laggers a pretty straightforward Oh, I love it though. Smelling and tasting beer. I love a good, I'm not [00:28:00] criticizing, I'm just saying it's a straightforward beer.

These Belgian beers have so much flavor and the aroma that you get, it's like a wine glass almost. You're drinking them out of, and so you're able to have that more sensory experience that, that extension, this is a complex

**Bam Bam:** beer. It's, I get a

**Gizmo:** straightforward, I get everything you just said outta the red solo cup.

No problem.

**Grinder:** No problem. Get those out. I, I, I, I think I, in my view, I think the whole, the whole, uh, I think it's a little gimmicky in my view. I think, I don't think it really does that much. I think if it does anything, it's so minute. Um, but it's fun and it's part of the experience and I love that. And the, the Germans actually kind of borrowed that a little bit.

I don't know what came first. The chicken or the egg. I

**Senator:** mean, the Germans drink out. Have like giant Stein? No, no, no, no, no. Gallons

**Grinder:** of beer. That's

**Senator:** incorrect. The start at the Huff Brow House, Stein Southern is there in

**Grinder:** Munich. I've seen that. The Southern Germans will drink out of large Stein. We'll get, but, but the Northern Germans drink outta small [00:29:00] glasses.

And they drink, like if you go to Cologne, it's like very small glasses. It's gotta be cold. And they'll, you'll finish your beer and they'll fill it, fill, fill it up immediately. And that's their style. It has to be cold and s in the south of Germany. They're gonna drink warm beer out of these large steins and it's gonna be disgusting.

And there's like backwash and shit. Oh Jesus.

**Gizmo:** Oh boy. Okay.

**Bam Bam:** Onward. Let's get back to this onward.

**Gizmo:** Let's get back to something great. Mm-hmm. And we're coming to the end of the first third here of the Parus series E number two. This is delicious boys. So good. This is like, wow. So good. Yeah, it's really incredible.

Yeah, it's fantastic. Creamy. What? The smoke? I just,

**Poobah:** they're amazing. It's, it's fantastic. It's, it's comforting of my, it's really one of my favorites.

**Grinder:** This is really in my power alley right now, guys. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you right now, this is gonna be,

**Bam Bam:** you know, the cool thing about this cigar, this, it's fantastic.

It's always been, it's a very, yeah. It's like always been a, um, a staple, but it's very comforting because of the [00:30:00] combustion, the way it draws. I've never had a plug. E two and every E two has been delicious.

**Gizmo:** Can I assistant wish I made a 50 cap in every good cigar? Yeah. The thing I

**Senator:** love about this cigar, like, There's nothing in here that's like aggressive in terms of flavor delivery.

Like it's very medium, but the flavor is, it, it just kind of coats your mouth and like it's, it's so present that to me it's, it's like, I think Poobah was saying the, the beer is like very well balanced to me. The cigar is really well-balanced where y you are not wanting more, but you're not getting anything aggressive or too much.

It's just perfect. Yeah,

**Bam Bam:** it's great

**Gizmo:** Here. So I have, this is great cigar. I have a question for you guys now. Let's really narrow this down. Okay. I don't want to go into the whole portfolio, but for a listener out there who loves a D four, which we've pointed listeners to over and over and over again as a staple Cuban rib Robusto, [00:31:00] what can, what should someone who smokes a D four or likes a D four, what can they expect out of an E two when they reach for that?

As, you know, compare contrast, I'm curious

**Poobah:** just what you guys think. It's not, this cigar is not, not quite as spicy as a, uh, as a D four, and when I say spicy, I don't, I mean, cinnamon. Cinnamon and also a D four s can have a little bit of a peppery note to them in, in, in the last third. Um, you may get there with the c2, but, but it's certainly not the D four, um, in my view, packs a little bit.

Can pack a little bit more of a punch, but they're different animals. Yeah. I, I, I, I think if you like a D four, you're definitely gonna like an E two. Yep. Yep. I think that an E two is this, this come, this is a great cigar in the spring or the summer. I, it's, it's, it's a medium to senator's point. It's a medium body to fair and, [00:32:00] and, uh, there's dessert flavors that are, that are very.

Forward. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, but it doesn't really leave you wanting a whole lot. The combustion's so good. The draw is so good. The construction, the burn, um, and the whatever the trimmings are that they're using in here, uh, in this, in the smoke are premium. Mm-hmm.

**Senator:** I think Poobah is spot on. Totally. To me, obviously the D four is my favorite Cuban cigar period.

I think it's impossible if you like a D four not to love a e too. And to me in the alphabet series, the natural progression is if you've started with a D four and love a D four. Mm-hmm. Like this is next. Yeah. Like I would smoke this before I would a P two because I think what Poobah said earlier, like, There's a lot more La Herro in a P two.

Mm-hmm. It's gonna pack more of a punch. This cigar is just so even keeled. Yeah. Like, it, it, it offends nobody. I, I can't really think of a Cuban cigar smoker that likes a D four that wouldn't like this. To me, it's not

**Bam Bam:** possible. Yeah. From the point of view of the size, it's like the bigger brother of the [00:33:00] D four.

Um, but with more dessert notes.

**Senator:** Yeah. Yeah.

**Grinder:** Right. I, I think when I, when I, I'm smoking the cigar and I'm, I'm loving it so much and I think about my experience with similar cigars, like a QD 54 and how much I love that cigar, and there are elements of that cigar that sometimes want, you know, it has me wanting more and I feel like this E two is delivering that extra, that that mm-hmm.

That ambition that I had, that I have with the qd, where I love the QD so much and I just, I just wanted to drive a little harder. This is, this is fucking hitting. It is. It has

**Gizmo:** a little more body.

**Poobah:** Yeah. Yeah. It has a little more body. It just, and it has, and that in combination, I believe, with just the, you know, honestly construction of it.

Mm-hmm. And, and the size is, actually, I was about to go there. The size is really a great size. You get

**Bam Bam:** that satisfaction, I [00:34:00] think, from the ring

**Senator:** gauge. You do. But I mean, what Grindr's saying right, is he's comparing it to the QD 54. They're the same exact size. That's a different cigar. But I agree with him, like you get just a bit more out of this flavor wise, where you are fully satisfied not wanting anything else.

Oh, yeah. Where the QD 54. I love that too. But there are times like Grindr's saying like, you just want a little bit more outta that cigar that it doesn't

**Gizmo:** necessarily have. But I, I also think that that parallels with just RGUs in general. Ver you know. Yeah. And, and Kai se Yeah. You're getting, you know, it's just kind of RGUs just delivers.

Mm. Just that little bit more, at least for our pallets. I think you're getting,

**Poobah:** you're getting the RGUs DNA n a in this thing that just is just part, that is part of us that salty minerally, balanced with the balanced, with the dessert flavors and, and this ratio, um, that they're putting together. For this, and maybe it's a, maybe the trimmings are, maybe it's so scarce because the trimmings are hard to put together to get it right.

[00:35:00] I'm hypothesizing. But that's, you're getting all of that. It just, it's delivered in just a very distinct way. It's not a P two, it's not a D four, it's not an 8 98, but it's got kind of all that DNA n in this larger ring gauge that's delivers a lot of smoke, a lot of combustion. Mm-hmm. And it's just, it's a, it's a really, really wonderful experience

**Gizmo:** for me.

Mm-hmm. I think, I think all of the cigars that he just mentioned are, you know, you can kind of, you know, draw a line through them all, and I think there's no exception here with the E two. Mm-hmm. I'm curious, pagoda, you, you smoke a lot of DEF four s. How, how are you feeling about this? So in

**Pagoda:** this one, I, I totally feel like, um, You know, in terms of satisfaction, it may be because either it's a very long finish or my mouth fully corded.

I don't know what it is. I think it's both, but it's, um, it's, it feels like the flavor is just being persistent in my mouth as opposed to in a lot of cigars. I, I think sometimes you feel like you're [00:36:00] craving more, as with the idea that it kind of has a shorter finish or it doesn't linger that long. I'm like, I'll tell you

**Grinder:** what, I, I typically don't like a, like a super long finish, but I think the finish of this cigar actually aligns very nicely with the finish of the beer.

I think that's helping. It is a good pair.

**Senator:** It's a creamy finish. That's what I, it's delivered in such a refined way. Right. Yeah. That's what I love about it. That's

**Poobah:** right. There's a viscosity to the smoke cuz you're getting so much of it. Mm-hmm. I think that may have something to do with it. You're getting so much of it and it, the blend is so good that.

It's coating your whole mouth. And uh, and I think that has a lot to do with it. You know, we've been smoking a lot of these, um, smaller ring gauge cigars and they deliver that kind of like pointed as there's like a pointed delivery to those. This is, this is just a different experience. It gives you kind of less of that.

And it's a, it's a great change of

**Gizmo:** page.

**Grinder:** Yeah. It's, it makes you, it makes you really like, like second, not second guess, but like, reevaluate or [00:37:00] maybe appreciate the merits of a larger ring gauge. Absolutely.

**Senator:** Oh yeah. Thank you. Like, I hope that guys in this room can relate, like everybody knows, like you, you see the photo, I'll say like, I've had a long day, I'm in chimney mode and I usually send a photo with like an E two or sometimes a QD 54, like, There's nothing better than when you just wanna immerse yourself in a cigar, like in the most sensory way possible, which is just clouds of smoke billowing everywhere.

Totally. Like this is what you want. Totally. Totally. Mm-hmm.

**Gizmo:** Totally. So, I, I'm gonna be, I'm the dissident in the room as, as we know this, right? We know that. There's no question about that. Always. Not always. But tonight. So, you know, I don't love how this feels in the hand. You've run

**Bam Bam:** away from this cigar. Uh, I have.

Yeah, I know. Um,

**Grinder:** I'll buy your boxes. Yeah, me too. Me too. Actually, no, I already have dibs.

**Gizmo:** This box that we're smoking tonight. Whoa, whoa. Woke. Everybody calmed in. I got dibs. This box that we're smoking tonight, ba bought for me about a year and a half ago. That's right. And they've

**Bam Bam:** been kept beautifully.


**Poobah:** In in, in

**Grinder:** a tupper door. No, in bam BA's [00:38:00] tower.

**Gizmo:** But, you know, I just, I don't love the mouth feel of the 54. I don't love how it feels in the hand. It feels bulky to me. Now. I'm not gonna look at the rating for what this is. It's, it's killer. Well, you have, I just don't reach for it small. I'm, I'm about to.

**Poobah:** I'm about to. I'm about to close a deal right now. Thank you.

**Gizmo:** This is fucking great.

**Poobah:** I mean, come on. I don't like the, I I'm gonna, I'm gonna

**Senator:** push back a little man. If this is, if this is too come, if this is too big for your small hands, nah, we're gonna Exactly, we're gonna get you, we're gonna get you that pipe that our friend Roberto in Cuba had, and you can smoke it from a pipe.

Perfect. Perfect.

**Poobah:** Perfect. I, this is what, to me, there's no, there's very little not to like about what this, this, this smoke

**Gizmo:** delivers. Absolutely. I'm only complaining about, I just, the size in general is just not for me. It actually feels very good in your hand. Crazy. The way it

**Poobah:** feels. Very, I feel ready

**Grinder:** to go.

So maybe

**Senator:** you're not holding it [00:39:00] correctly. Hemo Yeah. No, no. But very seriously what Rooster said, like, I, I was, I thought I was crazy about this. And as I was just reading like how some other people feel about this cigar. People note this, and I think this is what Rooster's getting at this cigar, bam. Said earlier, has never had a plug.

D two. I haven't either. I don't know how you could even find one. They're relatively loosely packed. It's actually for how big the cigar is. It's light. It's light. And that's a merit, guys. It's a merit. It's a huge merit because if this were really densely packed cigar at this size, I think the mouth feel would be problematic.

Mm-hmm. I think it wouldn't feel great in the hand and it would be plugged, but it's so light and elegant despite its size. I think it's actually great

**Poobah:** in the hand, like, like. What the highly, most, highly rated cigar is up the podcast like Inman two. It's true,

**Gizmo:** that's

**Grinder:** true. I think, I think, you know, some people just aren't used to handling that much girth.

I don't know.

**Gizmo:** I resent the implication. I think I,

**Bam Bam:** I think the most of you.

**Poobah:** All right. I'm not saying, don't it? I think Senator makes a great point [00:40:00] though. It's a great point. The construction of the cigar is direct, impeccable performance. But that what he's saying though is, is, is, is a very, very good point in that the way that we're half, I'm halfway done with this.

If this is the land, Sarah, we'd be still in the first third. This thing burns. It's the combustion is, look, look how excited he is. The draw I love it, is fantastic. The smoke output is fantastic. The flavors

**Gizmo:** are great. Is razor sharp and it's razor sharp? Ver is

**Poobah:** razor sharp. It's the performance. So, like for me, I have, I'm saying this, he's right, this is meant, it's not so tightly packed that you're like, it's by design fighting it.

It's by design. You don't wanna

**Grinder:** work, you don't wanna work. Design this right though. You don't wanna work for it. You're, you're, this is his point. You're working at all. You're, you're like, I just, I, I, I fucking had a day. I had a day. Whether it was a fucking phenomenal day or a shitty day, this is gonna be easy [00:41:00] to

**Senator:** smoke and it's gonna fine.

Alright, so we have to do it now. We have to do it now. Accountability hour. We have to do it now. What is it? All right. This is gonna be the question to every lizard. If you could light an E two or a P two oh shit, which would you pick? Come on. We all know what the answer is. Let's, let's say I walk in and I have E in my hand and I it six E twos one E two.

Which, uh, which would you take? We'll start with Rooster. E two Uba. E two me E

**Grinder:** two. First time I'm smoking this E two. Bam. Bam. I don't like the question

**Bam Bam:** stage. I'll just

**Grinder:** answer it. How hard is it?

**Bam Bam:** Because I love

**Grinder:** both cigars. He won't, if you have to

**Senator:** pick one, gonna pick, prefer he won't, he won't

**Grinder:** credit, he won't credit the merits of the question.

If the E two is five

**Bam Bam:** years old, I'll smoke

**Senator:** that. No, if they're both the same age, the E two. Okay. And, and, uh, pagoda, E two. Gizmo P two baby. All right. So like I said,

**Gizmo:** you're on an island. I, i just making sure. That's great. I said that. I know. I'm the sole dissident tonight. The think we

**Senator:** just need the listener to witness it.

A young soul. Young, a young

**Poobah:** P two. So I have a proposal for you. I have a [00:42:00] proposal for you. I have boxes of P two s.

**Gizmo:** I don't have boxes of E two s to trade you. I'm sorry. Bam. Bam. You were saying that was

**Senator:** opposite. I like where your head was though.

**Gizmo:** I have like eight Tubo. That's what I meant. What I was saying was,

**Poobah:** uh, we can work out a trade.

I'll take, I'll take, I'll take.

**Senator:** Bam. Hold on. Sorry. Why is that such a problematic question for you? It is. Your job is to pick our preferences here. Well,

**Grinder:** there's, there's, there's

**Bam Bam:** nuances in the cigar. If it's an older or younger, it's same.

**Senator:** What part of the same age

**Grinder:** is said he, I said E two. So what's your problem with that? No, no. I was just

**Bam Bam:** going to go into the whole p2

**Gizmo:** thing, but forget about it.

So I, I do wanna understand, because, um, I know these have been announced since 2011. I know Poobah has definitely smoked, aged E two s and I'm, I'm assuming that Rooster has as well, uh, you know, 20 14, 20 15, 20 16. I have not. Hmm. Um, I'm curious, how do aged E two s compare? You know, this is, this is a box from December, 2020, [00:43:00] so these are like two and a half years old.

How do these compare to cigars that you've had that are maybe five, six years? It's basically the same cigar,

**Rooster:** but it just kind of balanced flavor. Smooth delivery is smooth.

**Gizmo:** That's

**Rooster:** what it is. This's. Like even on this one, I mean, there's no

**Poobah:** harshness on this. No, no. And there's some more pronounced, I think the ones that I've had, there's a little bit more pronounced, um, flavor notes.

You, you, you're just gonna get a little bit more of that dessert flavor. You're gonna get that b basically that aged tobacco, uh, feel where, where like on the light, when you, when you light it up and then also down the stretch, you're like, whoa, like this thing is really at, at, it's, it's not

**Gizmo:** gonna get much better than this.

So is it a 10% gain? Is it 15? Like is it 20%? Like how much? Yeah, it's

**Poobah:** 20, 20% better. Okay. Do you, do you think,

**Grinder:** um, the cons, well, do you think, well there's a couple, there's a lot of variables in this, but do you think a, uh, smaller reengaged cigar [00:44:00] concentrates flavor or pronounces flavor more so. Than like a larger ring gauge

**Gizmo:** cigar.

Yes. The flavor is in the wrapper. Yeah. Oh no, it's not. That is not true. I've debunked that and I think it's, I think it really comes down to the blend. I think you're looking at a, a cigar that when they blend this, a bigger ring gauge, they're trying to give you an hour and a half really, really pleasurable smoke.

They're not loading it up, they're not packing it too tight. Like, uh, like we were saying, probably why we're not getting plugged D two s or plugged mm-hmm. You know, larger ring gauge cigars that come out of Havana, which is America. There's just less, there's less tobacco per Yeah. You know, this isn't a heavy nicotine.

It's not a,

**Poobah:** this isn't, this isn't a heavy nicotine cigar where like in, I've had some pipe hitting. Eight 90 eights. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Where you're, where you're like, this is a real pipe, you know? Um, uh, which is a merit in the cigar, especially when they've got age on 'em and it delivers a really mm-hmm.

You gotta smoke 'em kind of slow, pair it up with the, with with something appropriate. And, and boy, are they [00:45:00] fantastic, incredible love, but it's the eighth I made. Right. But it's a different, it's a way different experience than this. Still the same d n a I

**Senator:** think gizmo's answer that question is for me, the right one in the sense that like, I don't know why, but I feel like years ago I used to think that, All large ring gauge cigars, smoked one way and all small ring gauge cigars smoked another way.

And I don't think that's the case at all anymore. Like as I'm smoking this large ring gauge cigar, which I, as much as I love this cigar, I don't smoke many 54 plus ring gauge cigars. Mm-hmm. I mean, honestly, I have two in my humidor, it's this and the QD 54. Yeah, that's it. But other toros and larger ring gauge cigars I've had, like some of them have concentrated flavor like this.

Some of them I'm like sucking air, trying to get flavor or it's muddled. And with smaller ring gauge cigars, some of them have concentrated flavors and others, I feel like I'm sucking your a little bit. So for me it's debunked this like they [00:46:00] all, all of a certain shape or size smoke a certain way. Mm-hmm.

I think it really depends on the blend. And I think it goes back to our discussion around our trip to Havana where. The, the blending is really like the differentiator, right? Mm-hmm. Like we're talking about the same tobacco from the same region and it's the ratios and the blend and all of that. And so, um, that's really, I think what's decisive,

**Poobah:** hundred, hundred percent agreed for me, this smoke and it's, it's kind of why, like the connoisseur, but, but why?

I really love the upmanu. We all love the Upton two, right? Of course. But the upmanu needs, in my view, just a little bit more time than the c2. This is a little bit lighter of a smoke that to get to peak performance, the, it's, it's really worth aging. The ATMAN two, which to me ages up as a, as a maybe a little bit more premium than this.

I think

**Gizmo:** the conno a needs more time than the E two. [00:47:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're, you're right. And they're, you know,

**Poobah:** they're both 50 fours. You're totally right about it. Both excellent success. You're totally right about that. Uh, but, but once, once that, once the, because I consider a P two, even though it's a torpedo, a pretty, it's a pretty healthy ring gauge cigar.

Oh yeah. So, so, but it's also has the same, it has sim very similar characteristics to an Oman, but it's got that part, the Eman tube, but it's got a part, its DNA n a to it, and it performs in a similar fashion. It kind of gives you that a, a similar experience, but the eman just needs a little more time.

These pe these E two s seem to smoke a lot better when they young, at two years, two years old, and maybe

**Bam Bam:** an up. So these are, these are three years old, and I think they're delicious. Right.

**Poobah:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. It, it's really

**Gizmo:** good. So here's the other thing that I think is important, and it kind of bridges e every aspect of this discussion we're having from pub's, uh, commenting on age and, uh, you know, what Senator said about blending and our time in Havana.

Uh, this is a [00:48:00] two part thing I kind of wanna set up here, but number one, I've held off talking about the box code on this because these E two s were actually rolled at Elto. Mm-hmm. These are m a r December 2020s. Oh yeah. So it kind of sets up a two-part thing. I wanna start with specific to elto, the E two s being rolled there and what we learned while we were there, but also moving into the question of do box codes matter matter that much to us anymore?

So let's start with first. You know, the E two s at El Gito and what Denila told us. Mm-hmm. And this is, uh, going back to the Cuba episode, Cuba part two that we did of our time there where we, we, uh, spoke with the production manager of Cohiba Andto Delo. And, uh, we were talking about blending and whatnot.

And we asked him, because we were in one of the rooms and we saw a ton of E two boxes sitting there. That's right. I mean, maybe a hundred, 200. Yep. I wanted

**Senator:** to stuff them in a background. I was sitting there salivating, my

**Gizmo:** goodness. And a lot of E two s come out of [00:49:00] Lato. Yeah, actually, I would argue maybe more than out of the RGUs factory or other, uh, provincials.

But it's

**Bam Bam:** interesting, like our first trip, they mentioned that some RGUs are rolled in that factory, but we never got You wouldn't see any. Yeah. So it's on a second trip that we actually saw the inventory.

**Gizmo:** And what was interesting was he was saying that you could, um, maybe, maybe, uh, Senator can recap it better than I can, what he was saying about, you know, the rapper leaf on an E two might just been, might have been a bik rapper.

That just wasn't good enough for a He did say that. Yeah. You know, the blends are certainly different. The funny

**Senator:** thing, actually, I'm glad you said that, with the E two especially, I mean, there's obviously a ton of variation in the, the color of a lot of these rappers on Cuban cigars. I mean, some boxes of D four s, they're as dark as can be, others, they're as light as can be.

But the E two especially, I've had a lot of these cigars. The E two tends to have a lighter wrapper than any of the other alphabet series parties. Yeah, it's a rashad. Hundred percent. And I think like to Gizmo's point, like it's ironic to hear like actually a lot of these end up being rolled at Elto. Like you [00:50:00] think of Cohiba rappers, like they tend to be lighter.

They're certainly not dark. And so I wonder interesting, like, you know, it's very

**Poobah:** interesting. This is a very, it's a riso, very riso. Mm-hmm. Generally I, I've seen, but uh, I've seen some lighter ones. I've seen darker ones. I have, I have yet because I haven't seen, like, I've seen some pretty dark D four s. Me too.

Yeah. I just think the, I

**Gizmo:** think the variation, what I'm saying is

**Senator:** you'll never, you'll never see an E too as dark as a dark def fours. That's what I'm saying. That's, this is the lightest of the alphabet. This is true. Very true.

**Poobah:** Yeah. It's always kind of a rosado rapper on these, and I think, you know, there's something that they do.

And, and you know, we don't know exactly what it is, but there's something that they do to make these as good as they are all the time, every time.

**Gizmo:** Who knows what it is? I, I just think it's in, in, in an improvement in [00:51:00] construction and quality control. And I think that the cigar, this box that, that Bam brought tonight from Lato is clearly, I mean, the rappers are pristine.

Sure. Which obviously as we've discussed, is not an indication of how the cigars gonna smoke. It's really so, so here's

**Poobah:** catering to, but it's more of, this is more of a, a limited, it's one of those cigars, like an 8 98 that you just, don't they come, they, they, they're not. Yes. Is it, it's part of the catalog, but it's, it's almost.

It's almost a limit. It's almost a limit. It's not a liata, but it, it's, it's a limited regular,

**Gizmo:** limited regular protection

**Senator:** and production. What validates and proves that, so like if you even just look at the box, right? They have that little insert that is like, uh, lithograph. It's got like the, it tells you what the cigar is, all that.

Yeah. The only part against cigars that have that. Right? So like the D four does not Nope. The P two does not correct the E two. For some reason it's part of the alphabet series, but it has that special little insert myth. What [00:52:00] exactly what else has that? The RGUs Maduro Parus Maduros has that in it.

That's right. Those are produced in a far more limited capacity than a D four or a P two is, and the funny thing is, is I think about every box of E two s I've ever had, I've never come across like a provincial factory code for these for some reason. No, no. It's always like RGUs factory Legi. Like it's one of the big ones.

**Bam Bam:** That's it. These fucking cigars are made downtown. They're not. They're not on a farm outside of Havana. It's not happening. One, one. Interesting. I guess it's a question. So if cigars that are made at Elto as opposed to La Corona, you could, I think there's a clear difference from when we took the trip to Cuba, the way they handle the cigar and the cub and the tobacco and the way they assemble it, the way they stretch the wrapper.

To me there's a difference. So it makes sense if this was rolled in the Cohiba factory, that it's a higher quality cigar visually.

**Gizmo:** Well, the question I have is the timing of this cigar. [00:53:00] Okay. And what I mean by that is this is not an informed, this is not a, a slightly informed thing, but what I'm curious about as I think about the Mahik is coming out in 2010, And then this cigar being released in 2011.

Mm-hmm. Tied to what we know from what we saw in Cuba and what from Daniel Nilo said the wrapper on an E two might have just been a mahik rapper. That's just not good enough for a 50 Mahik 54. Mm-hmm. That's not gonna affect the blend that much as we discussed the Cuban wrapper accounts for very, very little of the flavor.

That's right. But the look of it,

**Senator:** Daniel said as much as 10%. Less than that even. Yeah. Less That's right. Than 10%.

**Bam Bam:** But the visuals on

**Gizmo:** it. The visual matters. So what I'm wondering is the timing of this cigar versus behi versus what we know versus a lot of them being rolled at Elto. Mm-hmm. I'm just kind of throwing a hypothetical out there that that doesn't seem crazy to me that the timing of this is like, Hey, we have all these rappers.

They're not quite good enough for Bek. What are we gonna do with them? We're rolling a lot of D four and other RGUs at this factory. What should we do with it? It seems [00:54:00] practical. Sure. Given that they waste nothing. That it could be,

**Senator:** I'm just gonna coin it. The E two is the poor man's bahk,

**Gizmo:** the very poor man's bahi, comparatively, you know, without

**Grinder:** the, so, so they, he said less than 10% of flavor.

Yeah. Yeah. Because that's so contrary to what you hear. We were all misinformed.

**Senator:** Yeah, but, but I don't believe about this. I don't know the new, no, no, no. So there's an important distinction because I was having a hard time, like Grindr is right now reconciling that with new world cigars, and it was someone, I think it was Rooster who was saying, That's true.

We can buy that about Cuban cigars. Right? Because the rappers are all the same. They're all Havana rappers. There, there's no, like, there's a few Maduros of course, but mm-hmm. Like, there's not the variation in rappers. Like there is the seed is all the same. Exactly. Right. New worlds are talking about in Mexican, San Andreas, a Connecticut broad leaf, uh, uh, Connecticut shape.

Like there's a zillion rappers on New World cigars. And so Rooster was saying like, that may not hold [00:55:00] true with New World cigars because there is so many different rappers. And so yes, like, uh, Connecticut broadleaf is gonna smoke a whole lot different than like a standard Connecticut shade or something else.

Yeah. You would think. Right. But with Cuban cigars, because they're all the same leaf, they're coming from the same region in place. Mm-hmm. It is not a differentiator in terms of the flavor in these cigars. It's the blend that is the massive, massive differentiator. Yeah. The rapper's just an

**Gizmo:** afterthought.

All right, so here's my next question with the, this whole thing is, as consumers, as smokers, Do box codes, do factory codes matter to you guys as much as maybe they did in the past? I'll start by saying I'm not nearly as concerned with box codes now, um, especially since let's say 20 18, 20 19. I am not as concerned if they're made in a mother factory versus in a provincial as I would be buying cigars that are significantly aged.

I'm curious what the rest of you guys think. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, [00:56:00] to

**Rooster:** me, to me it's more about the, the date Yeah. On the box, you know, as opposed to what factory it was made. Mm-hmm. But it, it is a bonus if it's out of the

**Gizmo:** Lado

**Senator:** factory. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm somewhere in the middle. I, I think for me, I'm now more conditioned to, to judge based on actually how the cigars look like.

It was very illuminating for us to sit there in Havana and understand that like, you buy this, this box of cigars that maybe is from Elto, but it can be rolled by 15 different people. The cigars that are in there, they're just, all the rollers are rolling them and then they're just color matching them. So it's not like one or two people rolled everything in that box.

So for me now, I'm more looking at how they appear, how the construction looks, and how, you know, my odds are that most, if not all, are gonna smoke really well than I am, like just implicitly assuming because of a code that they're all gonna be great because there could be a bad, not a great roller that we'll,

**Gizmo:** but the attention

**Rooster:** to detail at the Lado factory.

You know, I [00:57:00] think that might

**Senator:** be the, well, that's why I say I'm in between, because I won't lie. Like some of my best boxes in terms of how they smoke just happen to be like, Lato. I wanna hear what, back to, I

**Bam Bam:** wanna hear what PBA has to say. Well,

**Poobah:** this is interesting. Well, I agree. I mean, I, I, if it's RGUs or a lato, the odds are you're gonna get a pretty well constructed cigar.

Um, does it matter? I think it matters a little. I mean it, and, and, and I think it also, when you're, when you're talking about, um, cigars that you've, that you've smoked and, and certain runs, going back to when Rob, when Rob Isec came on the, the podcast, um, I think what he said, I would echo, you know, his commentary in terms of, in terms of these, these runs.

So if you're looking at, at, at, at picking up a box, um, not necessarily vintage even, but, but you know, something on the secondary market. Maybe it's two years old, maybe it's three years old, maybe [00:58:00] it's whatever. Um, maybe it's seven years old, whatever it is. If you've smoked that cigar before Yeah. Very oftentimes you're going, Hmm, that was the part, part this factory elto.

Mm, pretty good. Pretty, pretty good. Yeah. Do you know, so I do, I think it matters, um, a little. Is it, you know, does it disqualify? Um, you know, other, other box codes. No way. Because some of those provincial factories have, we've all smoked those tho boxes from the They're good. Yeah. So like, I, you know, there's, there's, there's, I don't think that there's a, there's a binary kind of, I, I think, I think one decision about this, if, you know, if you know what you've had it before and you've had a run of that, go for it.

I, I think one of the, I think it's trial and error really, but Elto and RGUs, I mean, you can't deny it. No, you can't. Right.

**Bam Bam:** I

**Grinder:** think one of the thing that's, that's illuminating to [00:59:00] me hearing your stories about Cuba and you know, just the. Having a firsthand view of the operations is that so much is predicated on personnel.

Yep. Right. So like they care, you have to, you have to think about it at that particular time period. Mm-hmm. You have to think about like what, where are the best people? Where are the best rollers? Right. Is it what part of the country are, you know, are they gonna be located in a metropolitan area? Are they gonna be located on the fringe?


**Senator:** so, well it doesn't matter. They're located, it's what factory they work at people travel hours to work. That's true. True. Well,

**Grinder:** yeah. So, you know, and, and what is attracting them to certain factories over others? And then what are the business decisions of, you know, ho

**Gizmo:** bonos, because I have an interesting one for you.

You look at, if you look at any of these Sir Winston boxes that any of us have or have smoked, none of them have come out of the atman factory. They all come out of one or two. I think it's two provincials pretty far out. Wow. No. [01:00:00] Sir Winston Box has come out of, I didn't know that up. So what's interesting is, is like, okay, is there a pair of people that their only job all day long every day is to roll?

Sir Winston's, unlike they unlikely have, unlike if they have

**Senator:** anybody know this, this

**Grinder:** is shocking.

**Bam Bam:** No, I, I didn't know that. It's true, but it's also highly unlikely they have two people assigned to it. I'm just, no, I know.

**Senator:** Hypo I'm, which is just crazy to me. Yeah. Like it honestly is upsetting to me. Yep.

Likeman has a factory. You would think just like, here's my, there's a recent cohibas outta Lato. Like they're like, this is where the best people we're gonna have roll the finest cohiba cigars. Mm-hmm. The Sir Winston is arguably the best cigar Iman makes. Like why would not have people there making,

**Grinder:** that's so weird.

Maybe it's the size of the cigar. The certain that certain rollers in that factory are, are subject, they're expertise, they're experts in that. I'm

**Gizmo:** comp compar. My comparison goes to what we know about Padron with the, uh, 80 year, uh, from the 1926 series where there's [01:01:00] one woman that rolls every single one of those cigars, and if she doesn't come to work that day, none of those cigars are rolled.

So maybe. Maybe there's a human being or two or five that are at that specific area that work outta that specific factory. And that's what they make. Because the other thing too is 50 cabs of loosies from RGUs, most of those don't come out of the RGUs factory. They also come out of a provincial. It's unlikely, but they do make them at the, they do make some of the RGUs factory.

A lot of that dress boxes come out there. But, but not the, uh,

**Bam Bam:** not Cuba caps. The likelihood that that's true is very low because it's so, but we don't know. It's so arbitrary and it's like Poobah said, you get runs for the listener. I'm a fairly novice Cuban guy, but I know to identify a good run, you have to smoke prior to that run to identify what a new, a new runner, a good run is.

You have to know what that is. But for those cigars to be incredible at a one factory and, and not so good at another, it's Cuba. Being Cuba really is what it is. Yeah. You know,

**Gizmo:** so for me, the only, you know, [01:02:00] the only thing that I will say is that cigars that they make a ton of. D four s Monte four s. Mm-hmm.

You know, those, I try to get closer to the mother factory if I can, you know, because they're just making so, so many of them. So what you're saying, box codes matter. Exactly. My exception is I, there we go. Really? Some of the high run stuff I want Mother Factory.

**Poobah:** Okay. Yeah. I kind of agree with you in, even when you look at the loosies there, there's, there's, there's, there's variability.

Yep. There's a lot of variability in, in those cabinets. You get some good ones and you get some ones that are just bummers. Um,

**Bam Bam:** can I ask a technical question of all of you guys? So where does one go to identify where a box code comes from? What factory that it's from?

**Gizmo:** It's a fair question. I mean, some of the information is on some of the forums.

Like if you go to f o h there's various threads about box codes and unfortunately they're, they lag, you know, so there's some box codes right now that people aren't [01:03:00] quite sure which codes are for which provincials. The mother factories are very, very clear. But the provin, the provincials lag probably a year or two until people are actually in Cuba going out to these distant factories and seeing those codes being stamped on those boxes.

So they lag, but for a historical record of it, you can find those on the various forums. F o h is a great resource for that. Um, I have a document myself, I've shared a few times on there, so, you know, maybe that's something I'll, I'll make a nicer version of it cuz it looks like it was taken. That would be a great idea, you know, through a potato.

The photo's so bad. Um, you can barely read some of the letters on it, so maybe I'll make a better one and share it. But that's, um, That's, that's the status right now.

**Senator:** I, I will say on box codes, I think a few years ago, all of us in this room were fairly militant about box codes. Oh, absolutely. And I do think that there has been a bit of an evolution and, and I think it's good.

It's like us learning. Like I, I, I certainly was militant about box codes. I mean, honestly, most of the stuff I have that I hold in some [01:04:00] esteem, they're, they're from mother factories. But visiting Havana and just our experience sometimes with like, you get a random box and you're like, wow, these are really good.

Mm-hmm. And this is some random provincial factory. I think for us now we're realizing that like the difference is not as decisive as we maybe once thought and is more marginal, where like sometimes you can get lucky and have a great box of cigars out of some random provincial factory you've never heard of.

Um, and so for me it's kind of, it's opened my horizons a bit more and I'm looking more at how the cigar looks and feels than I am like, oh my God, it's got this coat on it. So that's the only

**Gizmo:** reason I'm gonna make that decision. Yeah, totally.

**Poobah:** And I, I I, I totally, I'd echo what you're saying and, and, and what GIZ was saying.

And, and, and if you're in the market, if you're in the market, um, and you're looking around in forums, whether it's on f o H or whatever, it, it, it, it is a good thing to look at what the esteemed kind of box [01:05:00] codes and years and, and runs are. Yep. Um, because it does that, you know, those are established, attracts kind of Yeah.

Tracks. It's like established, um, uh, kind of. Consensus in terms of, in, especially when you're talking about like stuff with a little bit of age on it. That's the key point. So, so, so, so the, the, and if you go on these forums, um, for the listener, you will be able to find, uh, what Gizmo was talking about, some of these historical, but cuz they change, so it's, they change generally

**Gizmo:** about once a year,

**Poobah:** right?

So they're always changing. So to have these codes is a good thing. It just gives you a little bit more information so you can make more of an informed choice if you're on Bond Roberts, um, and, and, and you're looking for something special and you wanna buy something special, certainly. That can be a differentiating factor.

And it'll be reflected by the way, um, in the price. Yes. So you, you will see a box of Sir Winston's or you'll see a box [01:06:00] of, um, E two s or you'll see a box of, of D anything that with a different code and a different date that

**Gizmo:** will Yeah. Comparatively to

**Poobah:** something that Yeah, that will go for a similar vein that will go for a higher premium.

Yeah. So you could have a Bo a a, a, something that's a little bit younger. Go, um, for a little bit more because it's out of Allego. Because it's out of Allego. Yeah. And that's established, right? It's established by the, by consensus. So,

**Grinder:** but why is that, why are they changing it every year? So, I, so I'm, I'm imagining that you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, that there's fact they're not, it's not like they're building new factories.

So am I right?

**Gizmo:** I can answer that question very clearly. Ha. Bonos doesn't want anyone judging their purchase. Based on the factory it came out of. So the reason why they change 'em every year is internally they mark them with the codes, but they keep changing them to try to distract the consumer from being able to track it and follow it so that you know, [01:07:00] you're not dismissing stock that maybe was sent to one retailer in favor it something that was sent to another retailer that has a box code that you prefer.

I think that is certainly the case, but I think that the, the general hobby, this, the lifestyle, the folks that are pretty deep in it are kind of in line with us in that the box codes are mattering less right now because the cigars are coming

**Senator:** out really well. Mm-hmm. Well, that, that's the operative thing.

I don't know that we've like put enough of a fine point on this. Poo was saying like, especially if you're looking at. Boxes from with some age on them. I think we've all talked about how in the last few years the quality has noticeably improved. Sure. Right. We sat down with Os Omar and some of these guys who are the director generals of these factories who have done an amazing job of ensuring better quality control.

And so I think like in recent years, it's not as important the box code because their, their focus on quality is so widespread now. Mm-hmm. In a way that in some years it was [01:08:00] not. And so I think as you go back, like to Puma's point with some age, you know, you're buying a box from 10 years ago. It may be in a time period where there were a lot of problematically rolled cigars coming outta Cuba.

Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. And so you really wanna know where your odds are highest, that that box is gonna be good. So in those instances, especially, is where I would actually say I'd put more of a premium on the box code, but for recent stuff in the last several years doesn't matter. I think that's where you're able to, you know, be a little looser in in correct

**Poobah:** fact.

And the jury's not out a little bit on some of those and it's fine. I mean, it's totally fine. I, I, I think, yeah, I would echo that sentiment. Yeah,

**Gizmo:** totally. I, so here's the thing I would say, and again, maybe I'm the sole dissenter in the room, really, but check this out. I'm also a discerning buyer on the secondary market or tertiary market, I guess on Bond Roberts.

When I see old stuff go up that's complete or partial, I. I'm very, very curious about why? [01:09:00] What do you mean complete or partial? That's a separate, they sell partial boxes. Oh, yeah. But what, I'm totally separate. Yeah. No, no, no, it's not. And we agree on this. What I'm saying is that I'm also. Concerned at times why that seller is selling the box.

Yeah. Is it not a gray code? Is it not gray quality? Did they experience something bad in that box? I, I am very, very, um,

**Senator:** cautious, so I I agree a hundred percent. I, I've said this a thousand times. I, I, this is a fact in my entire life, I've smoked cigars. I have never once bought a partial box that anyone has posted on any site.

I said this to everyone in this room, and I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying this is my opinion. I'm sure that there are guys in this room that have bought partial boxes that have been great. Yeah. It's just not something I want to do for exactly the reason. Gizmo just said there, to me, any box of cigars I have, if I've tried one and smoked it and it's damn good, I'm not gonna sell the box.

Exactly. True. So I have a hard time purchasing from someone who's smoked one. Clearly, if there's a cigar two missing, why they would sell it. I'm just, but to me, that's independent of the [01:10:00] code though, because. Even if it's a Lito code and a guy is selling it after smoking five of 'em and doesn't want the rest, I'm still not buying that box.

Mm-hmm. So that's why I'm saying to me, they're separate issue you saying?

**Poobah:** Yeah. Yeah. But what he's saying, yes, you're right. And I completely agree. What he's saying is that there's certain guys who buy two boxes. That's exactly it. That's what he's saying. That's what I'm saying. There's certain guys who, so what his suspicion is, there's guys who buy two boxes, right?

And then they, they get through it and they're go, oh, well I gotta get rid of that other one. I'm gonna get rid of these other, one, of these other five. Oh man. Maybe that they, when maybe that they, maybe that they picked up. So yes, again, I think it goes back to what we've said a million times. If it's too good to be true mm-hmm.

It's usually too good to be true.

**Gizmo:** It's usually too good to be true. Yes. Interesting. So it just adds another complex layer of this mm-hmm. Incredible hobby of ours. What do you, what do you guys think?

**Grinder:** This I don't have much cigar left to smoke. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** I'm, it's, I'm coming to the end here. It's still incredible though.

Phenomenal ci. I just, I just

**Rooster:** wanna add something to the previous, uh, what we were talking about. I think since 2020 [01:11:00] we have really seen the

**Gizmo:** quality in, in, in the cigars. I think 2018. 18, yeah. 19.

**Grinder:** 2019. It was

**Bam Bam:** 1918. Yeah. Especially

**Grinder:** 19. The cigars from 19 that we were getting in late 20. Great. They were the, they were, they were dialed

**Bam Bam:** the last three to four years of think, for me the most noticeable was the Monty two of 2018 that the, from in the older 20 sixteens, they weren't smoking that great.

A lot of 'em were plugged. But 2018 on, they've been pristine. Yeah. I've

**Poobah:** never had great luck with Monty's

**Gizmo:** because we know that my own experience. No, I think, uh, you know, I think that the, none of us really smoke monies that much. I think the, I think the runs that's not true. We love the Mons man. I smoke a lot of mon,

**Senator:** he smokes tons of mon too tons.

**Poobah:** I love, I'd like to have a good one because when they're good, they're great. I'll give

**Bam Bam:** you, they're

**Grinder:** great a good one. This is burning my fingers, right? Yeah, yeah. But you can't

**Bam Bam:** put it down

**Gizmo:** though, can I? Uh, I am, I, I really enjoyed this cigar tonight.

**Senator:** Yeah. I have to say the, the final third, the thing I love about the E two, I talked about how it's [01:12:00] firmly medium all the way through, but it does pick up a bit in strength in the final third a bit.

And, and it does it in a very nice way. Yeah. Not aggressive, and I

**Gizmo:** love that. That's right. And going back to the construction comment and the blending comment on this specific cigar, what I like in the last third is with it, everything, you just said it, but it doesn't get hot. It doesn't, the smoke doesn't start getting, you know, that it has, that, that tingly burn that's not pleasurable that some cigars have.

Mm-hmm. Really close to the end. The way that the cigar was blended in that last third. Maintains the, the pleasure of the smoke, you know, from the start and just absolutely increases the strength. Absolutely. That's fantastic. Yeah. You

**Poobah:** nub this thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**Gizmo:** Excellent. Yeah, it's super. So are you guys ready to, I can't, I can't pronounce the name of this beer.

Am a gang Hennepin a a gang Dougal Goggin. What did I call that? Call him. Are you guys ready to do the formal liquid rating on the Doma Gogan Ang Yes. [01:13:00] Ang Hennepin. You go. All right. We are, bam. Bam, you're up. So

**Bam Bam:** I've been begging senator for a long time. Yes. To bring this, he

**Gizmo:** had to say

**Bam Bam:** that, by the way, I have to bring this beer in because I've, I've been very curious about it.

I went on a website.

**Senator:** I, I know that

**Bam Bam:** feeling well. I do. You, oh. Don't even go there. I love this beer. It's a revelation of, I, I'm not a Belgian beer drinker, but this is a complex delicious beer and the, the flavor, the, the dessert notes that I'm getting on a finish. It's a beautiful long finish for me. It's fantastic.

Am I gonna give it a 10 for a beer? I gotta give it a 10.

**Gizmo:** All right, love it.

**Bam Bam:** 10 for beer. I mean, there is nothing wrong with this in it from beginning to end. I can pound four these and go home and go to bed.

**Grinder:** Grinder. Uh, I'm giving it a seven. What? Whoa.

**Bam Bam:** Oh

**Gizmo:** my God. That's a surprising score. He's like a, he's like a

**Grinder:** beer.

Beer. He's a beer guy. Yeah, but you, so I cut his mic. He's a German beer guy. Beer guy. [01:14:00] That's what kills him. So I, I love beer. He's a beer. I love, I love Belgian beer. My favorite beers are Belgian beers. So I immediate, I I'm always gonna love this beer. You're

**Senator:** always drinking loggers, I

**Grinder:** feel like, but I'm, but I'm on a lo I am on a pilsner lagr kick.

And, um, I'm drinking a lot of pilsners. Um, so that's, that's my current flavor profile. But nonetheless, this is a great beer. I think seven's a great score. I don't know why you're lamb

**Bam Bam:** basing that. I think grinder's going under review, lizard review. I'm on a, I'm on a pit. I'm on a pip

**Gizmo:** Pagoda. Sure. It's an eight for

**Pagoda:** me.

I, I thought it, this is slightly better. Um, when it, uh, got closer to room temperature, I think when it was really cold, it was slightly different. I preferred it when it became a little bit more,

**Gizmo:** uh, you know, a

**Grinder:** bit warmer. Um, is it, is this a beer you'd reach for over, like at Boddington's? No. Yeah, so for me those are very different.

Be, I have so many other beers. Different love are different beers. Yeah. Totally. D love the different beers. Yeah. But I know, I know. They're totally different. [01:15:00] That doesn't, that doesn't change my, it doesn't change. I don't have different ratings for different st styles of beer. It's how much I love that beer, like sunshine more than others.

And I would reach for so many other beers over this. Okay. No, but

**Pagoda:** it's a great beer. I think it's a great school.

**Gizmo:** All right. Yeah. Senator,

**Bam Bam:** anything aid and over is

**Grinder:** great

**Senator:** score. Yeah. Before I give my rating, I just wanna very emphatically say, uh, there are different beers for different times, just like there are different cigars for different times.

So like I say this all the time, you know, we, we'll compare, let's say certain champagnes and guys will say like, well I would reach for this over that. And when they are not at all similar, when they're very different. I try to remind us that like they're not competing for the same space, right. To like have, at the same time, like one champagne is a lot fuller and is meant to actually be paired with food.

Another is much lighter and meant to just be like an aper tea for something like that. So I would just say, um, like, I don't, like the Botting. Boddingtons to me is nowhere near like the same, same occasion you would have this, [01:16:00] it's not complex at all. Right. They're totally different. For me, the boddington's, like, you want to just pound some beers, wonderful, smooth, drinkable, great beer.

I love Boddington's. I have no complaints there. But I would ha pair this with like a more, you know, like a cigar with some really good flavor. Like this has, or just something that I'm, I'm not gonna drink in as much aggressive quantity.

**Grinder:** Okay. Well in that case I would, I would rate seven other Belgian beers over this.

That's fine.

**Senator:** Okay. Again, you, you have

**Grinder:** this. Yeah, that's fine.

**Poobah:** Can you imagine champagne with the c2?

**Grinder:** Oh, it's excellent. Where's your saber?

**Gizmo:** It's

**Poobah:** excellent. Like you're talking champagne.

**Gizmo:** I want now

**Grinder:** poop. I want now.

**Gizmo:** So it's a


**Poobah:** bully.

**Gizmo:** What's, what's the expression?

**Senator:** So, um, as far as the beer rating goes though, uh, I would give it a nine.

I think. Uh, this is one of the closest American made beers to any, like, great Belgian Cezanne or, or just Belgian beers Generally. I love what Oma Gang does, um, and I think they do have a very serious commitment to quality. [01:17:00] So for me, this slots in, in a number of different places and times, and I do really like the pairing with this cigar.

**Gizmo:** I do too. So, for me, this, this beer was a real revelation. I don't know much about beer, as we know, I don't drink a lot of beer. I've found this to be really enjoyable with this cigar tonight. I thought it was it per it paired perfectly with the cigar. Um, and I absolutely would reach for it. I don't have the knowledge that you guys do about this.

Certainly Grindr, but, um, this is definitely a nine for me.

**Grinder:** I can't wait to get you some more Belgian beer then

**Gizmo:** pba.

**Poobah:** I, I mean, I don't have, this is hard for me. I mean, I don't really have a reference point. I know you're in retirement. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like a retired beer drinker. I mean, so for me, you know, like, I don't know, it's an eight.

I, I guess, I mean, it's really good. Uh, I don't drink enough beer to really be able to do this well, so I would just, I mean, I'd give it, you know, it's an eight. For me and that's [01:18:00] kind of just,

**Senator:** I mean, even that's praise. You don't drink a lot of beer and it sounds like that's

**Gizmo:** something you enjoy. Yeah. Yeah.

**Poobah:** I, I totally, I mean, it's, it's, so that's my ranking, but I, I don't really, I don't really have much of a point of reference cuz I don't drink beer often

**Gizmo:** enough.

So the formal liquor rating on the Oma gang Hennepin is an 8.5. That's

**Bam Bam:** a good score. It's great. That's a perfect score. It's great. I'm glad I gave it a 10 because I think it would've brought that number down. An eight, what is it? Eight 8.5 Perfect score. I agree on nose, there's something nourishing about this beer.

I can nestle in at the North Lounge with this beer and a cigar and have a fantastic time alone without any of you guys in the room.

**Gizmo:** Love it. What are you trying to say? Well, I'm just, you

**Poobah:** know, I'm just saying, Jesus, the feeling's mutual. No, no, no.

**Senator:** I'm

**Grinder:** just, I'm just saying if you guys didn't want to hang

**Bam Bam:** out and I'm with the beer, the beer's my friend.

**Grinder:** All right, great. I'm, I'm excited. I'm excited to, uh, to further expand the beer palette of hemo. Let's do it. I would like that. I'm ready. You're [01:19:00] gonna, we're gonna do some laun. We're gonna do, we're gonna do some fucking, just

**Gizmo:** let's get some stuff I can pronounce. Okay. You can't say Lesh lesh. Lash

**Bam Bam:** la

**Pagoda:** shme,

**Gizmo:** shme.

We may la. All right, boys, it's time to do our formal lizard rating on the Partica series E number two. Ster, you're up. I'm gonna give it

**Rooster:** a nine. It's a, it's a perfect Cuban cigar, quintessential Cuban flavors, medium bodied, but so much cedar and uh, like wonderful flavors, you know, kind of like a D four, but minus that, that's spicy and not a lot of cinnamon either.

But it's, it's, it's a great cigar, great smoke.

**Gizmo:** Yeah.

**Poobah:** Poobah. Yeah, I agree. I'm gonna echo that. I, I, i, is it, you know, I can't ra I can't rank it a, I can't give it a 10 again, you know, echo what [01:20:00] Everybody's the sentiment here. It's, it's really, it's wonderful. It's fantastic. It, it, it slot, it can slot into so many places and, and the construction, the burn, the performance of the cigar, the satisfaction you get out of it all the way through is just

**Rooster:** wonderful.

I mean, it's one of the better cigars in this

**Gizmo:** ring age. Yeah,

**Poobah:** it, it's one of the better. It's one of the better Cuban cigars, I think, period.

**Gizmo:** Agreed. So, My, I'm also at a nine for sure. And like I said, despite what I said about size and not reaching for it all the time, because I don't reach for 54 plus, I don't really reach for anything that's actually a high score from you.

It's, but for what it is mm-hmm. In its size for tonight, for tonight for the cigar out of that box from Lag Gito, it's absolutely a nine. And to, you know, to go back to what you guys were just saying, I mean, we're starting moving out of the, the landeros and the, and the, the lawnsdale and we're moving into bigger range, uh, bigger ring gauge cigars, especially for Cubans.

We're gonna do the connoisseur a soon and [01:21:00] some other 54 ring gauge plus. So, you know, I think this is a great starting point for that. This is certainly a benchmark for Cuban 54 plus. Um, so we'll see how it goes, but, so

**Rooster:** would you

**Gizmo:** rate a P two, A 10? I also rated that in eight or a nine, I think, depending on what the experience was for that specific cigar.

But I think you gave it a nine. I think I gave it a nine. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Senator.

**Senator:** Um, for me, this is my favorite 54 ring gauge cigar. Um, uh, there's no glaring flaw in this cigar, um, for what it is. I'm also in lockstep, honestly, with the other lizards, uh, that rated this before me. I'm at a nine. Um, I think Poobah said if he could give decimals, he'd go a bit above that.

I would too. I can't give it a 10 only because for the flavor profile that I typically chase. I would want a little bit more. Um, and I, I don't think that this cigar is wildly complex that is deserving of a [01:22:00] 10, but it is a damn strong nine. And, um, I mean, man, just the construction, the flavor, the combustion, I mean truly, I, I hope for any listener, if you like anything RGUs makes and you haven't had an E two, it is impossible that you will not like this cigar.

And please pick a day that you really wanna immerse yourself in just a cigar and smoke. There is no better combustion out of a Cuban cigar for me. Yeah, you can, you

**Bam Bam:** can disappear in a cloud of smoke on this guy. Yep. No doubt.

**Gizmo:** Pa

**Pagoda:** it's a very, very strong line. Uh, a couple of years ago I was in Montreal and went to one of those, uh, I guess the LCD H store, and I picked an E too.

Um, it's just one of the cigars I'm very comfortable with. Uh, it's an excellent cigar. And, uh, like you said, like it's like quintessential pathas. Potass.

**Gizmo:** Awesome. Grindr,

**Grinder:** uh, uh, it's a 10 for me. Ah, wow. There you go. Love it. All right. I use the [01:23:00] expression revelation. I, for me, this is, this

**Pagoda:** hit

**Grinder:** I, I, there's a flavor profile that I seek and that I enjoy, and this was it plus.

And, um, I don't think, I, I'm trying to think. I've never had the cigar and, and for me right now, this is, Top tier, honestly, like everything about it, I just love, I wanna buy this respect, bro.

**Gizmo:** Like, it's, it's great. It's, I'm not surprised. Totally. I, I, when we, when we were coming into this, I didn't know if you had it or not, but I was definitely feeling like this was right in your power alley.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. For sure. Yep. Bam, bam.

**Bam Bam:** I'm also going with a 10. Wow. Um, I haven't had this in a very, very long time, and you know, there's two boxes sitting in my tower. I just found tonight for what it is. I try really hard not to compare it to other cigars. I know it's impossible to do. Early on when we were recording, we've talked about this a bunch of times.

I'm trying to rank a cigar [01:24:00] for tonight and how it's doing tonight with the pairing. It's a perfect pairing. Perfect. They both went together beautifully. 10. All right.

**Gizmo:** 10, 10 minutes. Yeah. So the formal lizard rating on the party series E number two is a 9.3 dude. That is love this. I think that's like spot on.

It's what's funny about that 9.3 coming out, I think we've said it a thousand times, that the formal lizard rating is never wrong. And I think that you guys probably would've put it at a 93 94 based on your comments. Yeah. Oh sure. I would've probably been at a 91, 92. Yeah. Um, and obviously you guys are, you know, uh, uh, up on the higher echelon and the, but the composite number makes sense.

93 I think is a perfect ci. It makes sense per

**Bam Bam:** perfect score for the cigar. Yeah. The one thing with this cigar, someone mentioned it earlier, you can pick it up in the spring or summer. For me, this is more of a holiday time cigar because of the ring gauge and the amount of time that you can spend with it.

I tend to prefer this in the fall. And I look at all of my cigars that way. I kind of categorize them [01:25:00] as to when I wanna smoke them during a year to a degree. This, for me is, is that type of a cigar? For me personally, that's just me.

**Poobah:** I think, I think the ranking's really nice. Yeah, it is. Yeah, because it, it's, it, it, to me it slots just like under, under a pre a premium up and two, and that what ranked very

**Gizmo:** high?

98. It was a 98. 99 8.

**Poobah:** 98 99. So, I mean, I think that nine. Yeah. So, you know, this is, uh, that's high praise. Yeah. The only, I I just in closing, I think, you know what Senator said. It, it, it, it. It doesn't lack anything. It's like the greatest experience ever. But there's just, there could be just like maybe that little smidge of a little bit more.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Um, but, and I think oil boy, it's, it's, it's, we're splitting hairs

**Senator:** a little. Yeah. Which is why also for me, I mean, ba bought Rob brought up seasons. I actually, my ideal time to smoke this cigar is like this [01:26:00] spring. This spring, yeah. And even this summer. And I say that because it's firmly medium.

There's nothing firmly full in this cigar. So for me in the fall, I want something with fuller flavor, like a P two actually for me slots and more in the fall. Um, that is more robust. You know, Poobah says it's got more Lee hero you tasted in that cigar. Um, but what I do love about it is the combustion is so tremendous that like, after a long day in the fall, you, you will see me, I've been at our north lounge on a fall, even a winter night, bro.

And I just want a lot of smoke. And I'll light one of these up and it's so


**Poobah:** It's funny. End of the end of the day. This thing lights up. It gives, I mean, any day, 365 days a year, seven days a week, and twice on Sunday, I think. I think we'd all agree. Yeah, we are. It's a winner.

**Gizmo:** We're splitting hairs. It's a winner.

I, but I think that, I think that, you know, to your point about, about it maybe needing a little more, I think this is a very intentional blend. I think it's very intentionally medium. It has the Parus dna. N I think it does exactly what it was designed to do, which is certainly not always the case with Par, uh, with, with Havanas.[01:27:00]

Um, Parus has a higher batting average for sure, versus some of the other Marcus, but you know, this was a great cigar tonight. Boys. What a smoke cigar. What a great cigar. All right, so an 8.5 for the Ang Hennepin beer and a 9.3 for the Cuban Parus series E number two. What a great night, boys. What a smoke.

What a smoke. Bravo. Very rarely do we clap. All right everybody. We'll see you next week. Cube Smoke. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You could find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod.com. That's lounge lizards p od.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.

If you have any comments, questions, do you wanna reach out? Say hello, tell us what you're smoking. Email us hello lounge lizards pod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, [01:28:00] uh, we'll see you next week.