Defining Hospitality

Siobhan Barry, Principal, Design Director, Hospitality Practice Area Leader North East at Gensler has been creating what she refers to as “Instagram moments” for over 20 years. She shares her outlook on #hospitality and her journey through the industry. Siobhan discusses with host Dan Ryan how hospitality can split into two different segments and how we can bring hospitality to all aspects of life.

Takeaways: 
 
  • As a designer, you have to create moments that are memorable for people. You want it to be captured and remembered, and this is referred to as an “instagram moment”
  • Designers can find a way to make people feel certain emotions when entering a room.
  • There is the “Big H” and “Little H” hospitality. The Big H is hotels, restaurants and the likes while the little h is everything else ranging from hospitals to stadiums.
  • When you think of the best times you’ve had, they weren’t digital and probably had some element of spontaneity to them. 
  • After 9/11, Siobhan went into business with a friend to open a nightclub to try and lift people’s spirits and provide for them a place to go.
  • Designing for celebration is a key aspect when thinking about creating a space. You want the room to feel joyous and full of energy.
  • Travel is making a comeback now and it is now seen as a basic human need, along with having new experiences.
  • To create the most innovation, you have to be willing to push the boundaries and try something different and unique.

Quote of the Show:
 
8:14 “I call it big H hospitality and small h hospitality. And what I mean by that is there's sort of the realm of the industry that we know, so that's the big H. I think of that as hotels, restaurants, spas, cruise ships, the things that we kind of know are in this industry category.
And then there's this small H which to me is everything else where, or every other arena in which our clients, our customers are, are expecting a different way of engaging than they have in the past been used to.”
 
 
Links:
 

Shout Outs:
 
0:43 Product Runway
1:20 ICRAVE
14:23 Sid’s Gold
16:11 Blondie
16:11 Gwen Stefani
16:21 Dusty Springfield
16:25 Patsy Cline
16:33 Fitz Gold
17:07 Calvin Klein
19:05 Swan Reserve
21:01 Lionel Ohayon
22:08 Prada
22:11 Madison Avenue
24:21 Dorsia
25:54 Crowbar
30:13 Airbnb 
 
Ways to Tune In: 

Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Ryan: Today's guest fosters creativity. She has over 20 years experience designing high profile retail restaurants and hospitality environments. She's an innovative and incredibly passionate designer. She's the design director, hospitality practice leader in the Northeast for. Ladies and gentlemen, Siobhan Barry welcome.
Siobhan
Siobhan Barry: hi, Dan. Thanks.
Dan Ryan: Um, I'm I'm so glad you're here and I've known you for many, many moons, but I think the first experience of, [00:01:00] of me really experiencing what you are all about, it was some fashion show. Product runway, maybe where, where I say that you foster creativity, you foster, you just take things over the top.
And I just to walk it, walk everyone through it. So you have these kind of thing. So these design groups are given tiles or picture frames or whatever, and they turn it into some kind of a costume or a, not a costume, some kind of couture. Dress. And it's really, everyone puts in, everyone puts in so much work and the results are amazing and they, for what we do, it raises money for charity.
However, when you were at, I crave, I believe. You guys took this to the next level. And I remember you walking out of this down the runway with this kind of these little, these big wings on black wings, and somehow you pushed a button and it came up and you were like this [00:02:00] dark angel and the crowd went bananas.
And it was just, it was just one of the most incredible things where you really just push the envelope. So I guess my question is, is as far as just wowing and delighting and really pushing the envelope almost to where you break things, like, where does that come from within you?
Siobhan Barry: You have to remember that when we started, we were designing nightclubs and I actually talk about this all the time. And, and even though. I don't get to design nightclubs as much anymore. This there's still all the lessons that I learned doing. Those are the same things that we think about. Th that I try to think about and, and bring into our projects and our practice today and what you just described.
It's so funny. I haven't thought about that in a while, and I'm going to go on YouTube later and look it up, but what, what it's like. Remembering that like, sometimes we get as designers we get in our little, like, what's my costume, [00:03:00] what's my project. What's my creativity. But you forget about like the room of the people who are going to be experiencing what, what this performance is or what this display is.
So if you can find a way to like, include them in. Performance, let's call it like now you have, now you have theater. Now you have like a feeling that everyone took and I love that you remembered it all these years later. It's like, because you were in there and you had to be in the moment and you, you remember like that collective gasp actually want to look it up on YouTube.
Cause I remember, um, rewinding and forwarding, like the people's faces when. And there was this like jaw drop moment. And that was so much fun, like being in that moment and like watching that kind of surprise and collected energy. So, you know, all that is still what we do every day. Like we're, we, we're not just saying let's make a beautiful space.
That's going to look great on a magazine cover. We're like, how are you gonna, how are you going to connect people [00:04:00] in the space? How are you going to get them to connect with each other? How are you going to make them feel like. It isn't just, oh yeah. I had my Instagram moment in that space, but I had this amazing time and I have to go back and I have to feel that energy that I felt in that space or whatever, you know, hotel, restaurant, nightclub, whatever.
I think, I think that's where the, where the fun comes for me.
Dan Ryan: I love how you say. And it sounds so simple too. Like, Hey, you have to remember who your actual audience is at that moment, because I think oftentimes people are going for that Instagrammable moment or for the cover of the magazine, or just to also just create a beautiful space.
That's kind of disconnected from the actual human beings who are going to be connecting within it and being impacted and inspired. And I remember when you talked about just the eyes opening and everything. You hit it out of the park there, and everyone [00:05:00] just went bananas and just the dancing, the drinking, the sweating, it all just happened there.
And I don't think it was supposed to do that. Like, it was almost like you threw gasoline, you threw gasoline on an audience and they just went completely bonkers. So my, my question from that of really focusing in on that audience and who it is at that moment, how do you take that? Into each of the projects that you're doing,
Siobhan Barry: that's what hospitality is though.
I mean like that's, that is like we choreograph, we don't just design a space. We choreograph, uh, uh, uh, a ribbon of an experience. Um, so, you know, We know enough, we collectively our field, like we've, we're, we're these experts. We know, um, we know what it's like to feel, um, anxiety. We know what it's like to feel.
Um, you know, Embarrassment [00:06:00] loneliness. We know all these emotions. And so we can kind of find the places to um, make people feel secure. And we do that from the high level, um, you know, how a guest room should feel when you check into it, because it just makes you feel like this is calm and it's supposed to be like this and everything's in its right place.
But then also to the places where we want you to take a leap with us and, you know, Go somewhere. You haven't been or see something you haven't seen or connect with someone you don't know. So like that choreography, we talk about this all the time. These are the, the, the guests journeys and they sound kind of hack because we talk about it all the time, but it's everything it's like in the old days we would, we would design from, I need this many beds and this many seats in my restaurant.
Those are those still matter. Those are still metrics that we need to hit. But when we design from the guest journey [00:07:00] outwards, now we map back to that. What do I need here operationally? What do I need to think about from a design perspective, what's happening digitally to inform it all together. And so it's same problem, but different way of looking at it.
Okay. That's when we can kind of create these high points or these calming points or whatever we need along the way. So it's, it's just a process. I think that we, we need to have in our head
Dan Ryan: and with that process and really thinking about that ribbon. I love the ribbon because it's not just your, it kind of, it's almost like a thread that ties you through the whole experience or experiential journey.
And then if you think about, um, from nightclubs, To hotels, to restaurants, obviously everyone is giving and receiving hospitality in those. So when you think about with your design hat on, in hospitality, how do you define hospitality as you [00:08:00] look at a project or you explain it to an intern coming in, who maybe is just experiencing how to do these built environments for the first time in a real practical setting.
Siobhan Barry: Okay, so this is a good one. I want to, there's a lot, I'm going to probably ramble on about, but in the shortest shorthand. Um, and this is the way I've been coming to think about hospitality over the time that I've been at Gensler. It's sort of like the Eskimo word for snow. Like, we need more words because one, one word isn't going to cut it here.
So, but I think in a, in a simple way, I called, I call it big H hospitality and small h hospitality. And what I mean by that is there's sort of the realm of the industry that we know. that's the big H And I think of that as hotels, restaurants, spas, cruise ships, the things that we kind of know [00:09:00] are in this industry category.
And then there's this small H which to me is everything else where, or every other arena in which our clients, our customers are, expecting a different way of engaging than they have. In the past been used to. And so it's like bringing a hospitality thinking into these other spaces. And so that's everything from cancer, hospitals to first-class lounges, to stadiums and everything in between.
It could be a train station. We're changing how we see, we used to have these sort of rules about hospitality over, over here. Everything else is kind of categorized by these. Building types, but that's not how we experience the world anymore. Our expectations have changed and we're seeing it in all the amenities projects that were, um, [00:10:00] you know, witnessing, especially post COVID.
Um, there's this new opportunity to kind of bring that thinking into just about every aspect of a human experience. Um, so that was a big mouthful. Um, but I think the small H. I love them both, but the small age is exciting because it's new and it's, um, it's, it's, uh, it's a surprise and you definitely feel, um, you know, the kind of newness of a place being reinvented or a place being re-imagined through this hospitality lens.
Dan Ryan: And when you think about the, like, I'm hearing you say, okay, the small H is the really exciting one. It's what it's kind of what gets everything gets the energy flowing. So. And a few minutes ago when we were talking about the dark angel explosion. Right. You know, that it's almost as if, and then you refer to that as oh, what the Instagrammable [00:11:00] moment is.
But I feel like that dark angel moment was before the Instagram of a woman. I'm sure. All the nightclubs that you were working on in your former life, where, before the Instagrammable moment, how do you. In your mind, how do you move away from that Instagrammable moment to this small age? And, and how do you kind of reframe that back to what it's meant to be?
Siobhan Barry: So. It's tricky. And I think, and just to be clear, I also love the big age. Um, I think we're getting, there's so much saturation. There's so much, you know, we know all the hotels that we've never even been to cause we've seen them and we've kind of seen everything visually or we've seen on social media.
Excuse me. So it's a challenge to. Have people present in a moment and have that connected experience, [00:12:00] that's really going to go. You had to be there. You could not experience this in any other way, except in the space. Um, so, you know, I think. The, the challenge is always the fun part of it. Like how do you, how do you carve out new ways of engaging and surprising?
And it might be different than it was 15 years ago. And it might, um, you know, in our new hybrid world, it might also include people who are present in a digital way that weren't. 15 years ago. So the concept is changing, but I do think, um, the, if you think about the best times you've had, or the best, you know, human experiences engagement you've had, they weren't digital, they weren't, um, they probably weren't even fully planned.
They were spontaneous or they had some element of spontaneity with them and. Uh, you know, it's the time it's like, you know, no one ever has a great time on [00:13:00] Valentine's day or new year's Eve, because it's, the expectations are so kind of linear and, and, um, you know, ex expected is the word. It's when you kind of have that night, that evolves organically and you, you know, you think you're going to start over here and you end up over there and I know you, and I've had some of these ended up karaoking at 4:00 AM and it's like, those are the best times because you're, you're kind of tapped into this thing together.
It doesn't have to be huge, but it's real and it's connected and it kind of keeps going and, and we're, we're playing out these characters of ourselves that are like, this is my fun side. This is my me spontaneous and fun. And without a care in the world. And so like, can you find ways to bring. That's like check into that spontaneity on a business trip in a hotel, uh, in an airport lounge.
Can you have that like, um, you know, access to that side of yourself? I think that's, what's [00:14:00] exciting.
Dan Ryan: I think, I think it's just so hard to still. Get that surprise going. Cause anywhere when you're planning anything, my wife, Alexa, she's a huge planner and she gets a lot of information from all the social media stuff.
And she'll like, look at what the things are. She'll get a really good 360 degree view of what it is. And for me personally, I don't like looking at any of it. I just want to go. I like suspending all disbelief. It's like reading a book, like, I don't know what's coming next or watching a movie. And I like that surprise.
So, I don't know how to find that balance, but I will say on the karaoke side. Okay. We've done karaoke. A handful of times. We've gone to a place where it's up on the screen and we're singing. But I think the most special moment was when I think it was called SIDS on like 1930. Sid's gold. So you walk through this door, it's like a hidden door.
You go. And it was a live piano bar karaoke. I'd never done that before. [00:15:00] And that was a true. Surprise, which I absolutely loved. And I'm always grateful for that. And when can we do that?
Siobhan Barry: Uh, yeah. Um, actually I was in touch with him. Uh, we helped them out with some kind of post COVID, um, things that he was trying to do.
Um, but I'm gonna reach out and see if he's open again. Cause we got to get back in there. Um, but you just described. So what's great about SIDS is yes, the room is beautiful. Um, it's scaled to an intimate it's this isn't like, you know, typical karaoke rooms. It's got this kind of club lounge, VIP room feeling place.
It's got a little stage, but when you're up there, you feel supported by the guy in the piano. You don't feel kind of like stranded by yourself in a room full of strangers. So you have that like backup, um, And no one's staring at the screen with the words on it. You're out there all looking at you and the piano player.
So you get these authentic, [00:16:00] like, um, old timey performance feel. Uh, and those are all the things like, you know, we as designers, we think about like, okay, what color is it? Where the lights what's the room size, but we have to kind of think about all parts of that. And again, it's the choreography. It's like the whole journey and the, the, like, what's it going to feel like?
Um, Yeah.
Dan Ryan: What's your favorite karaoke song? I forget you have a, you have a running for those who don't know, Chavon has a running list on her phone of songs that are in her range. What are they?
Siobhan Barry: I mean, I go from kind of Blondie, Gwen Stefani. Um, you know, pop to my country favorites. Um, son of a preacher man is a great song.
Dusty Springfield, um, all throw in some Patsy Cline stand by your man. That's one of my faves. My husband likes that one. Actually. I, I think I sang that for a friend at, at Fitz gold on his, uh, [00:17:00] on his 50th birthday. He wasn't my man. It was that, I don't know if that's a gift or not, but, um, it was fine.
Dan Ryan: I think it's a tremendous gift.
And then for those of you who don't know that creativity in Shavonne's house is just off the charts. Um, her husband, James is a, an incredible, I would say like a mixed media artist, right. He's just been creating some fabulous works of art and, um, and continues to always be creating. You guys are always creating.
How did, how did you guys meet.
Siobhan Barry: We met working at Calvin Klein. And he was, this was back in the days when Calvin still owned the company and I was working in house architecture team, doing facilities, design of. I was young. It was, it wasn't the most exciting job, but it was, um, doing showrooms or, you know, Calvin's bathroom one day or barriers shelves in his office.
So it was, it was, um, it was [00:18:00] a great starter job. Meanwhile, James, so I was down here on the basement level, James up here on the 10th floor. And literally that kind of says it all. He was doing women's catwalk collection and, um, It was like as far away from where, what I was doing, but, um, we eyed each other up and, um, let's just say Christmas parties are where connections get made and actually coming up to our, uh, Tour to an anniversary of meeting at that Christmas party.
So yeah, well maybe you can get in touch by the way.
Dan Ryan: I love the yada yada yada, but maybe you can get in touch with Sid and see if it's open and we could have a cross party extravaganza. I'm
Siobhan Barry: going to do it now.
Dan Ryan: And then also just for those of you who don't know, um, my wife is a huge fan of James's art more obviously so much, but sometimes I'll do a.
Uh, [00:19:00] recording. If you'd see on YouTube where it would a piece of James James's art is like over one of my shoulders. I forget which way you're looking.
Siobhan Barry: And also just to throw in a, um, a fun nugget about James. We just collaborated actually on a hotel that just opened last week. This is an autograph in Orlando and, um, James has posted a few.
Shots of it, but we collaborated on an art piece, um, in the, in the restaurant of the hotel. So this is the Swan reserve and in the dining room, um, there's a room full of. Uh, handmade plates. And actually my sister made the plates. James did the artwork on the plates, um, and it's there and it's open and it looks amazing.
And so that was kind of like our creative family coming together. W w I always joke, not joke. We have no lawyers. We have no dentists. We have no like useful people in our, in our family, [00:20:00] but we have photographers and artists and pottery designers and everything in between. So, um, yeah. I would say that's
Dan Ryan: more useful because it's continual inspiration and capturing, and re-imagining of inspiration,
Siobhan Barry: a little Bloomsbury set, but, um, for the new world,
Dan Ryan: um, when you said you did Calvin Klein's bathroom, I never needed that.
Like literally Calvin's bathroom. Well,
Siobhan Barry: just the office office
Dan Ryan: is private CEO bathroom. Yeah. What was the coolest thing about.
Siobhan Barry: Oh, Dan, there's nothing cool about that. Um, it, everything back then, this was the nineties. Everything had to be black or white. We had to wear black every day. Um, and if you received flowers at your desk, like someone sent you flowers, if they weren't white, you had to keep them wrapped up in tissue until you could like take them home.
Um, No designers. Remember he was on the 10th floor. They could wear [00:21:00] like a garbage bag, nobody would care. Um, and he was always in army fatigues. And you know, that's probably why you stuck out. Um, because I would be like, who's that guy? Uh, so Calvin's bathroom probably had white tile and black laminate. It wasn't fancy, but,
Dan Ryan: um, okay.
So then the question is, how do you go from. Calvin Klein. Did you go from there to I crave and meeting up with Lionel or did you know Lionel from the old country? Like how did that whole
Siobhan Barry: in the line, all from the old country, um, Lionel and I went to university of Waterloo together. And so I think I met him on my first week at school.
He was a couple years ahead of me and, uh, We were always in touch when I graduated and I moved down to New York, I actually freelance for him on the side while he had some gigs going on. And this was like going way back, um, doing a little bit of [00:22:00] retail stuff. I ended up at Calvin from there. I went to into residential.
Um, and then retail. I mean, I hopped around a bit. I think it takes a while. To really figure out like where your, where your realm is. But when Lionel started, I crave, this was right after nine 11. We, you know, I was working in this retail company. All our projects had kind of come to a grinding halt right after nine 11, um, in New York city, in New York and we were doing Prada.
We were doing . We were doing all these like Madison avenue, um, very beautifully detailed. Places, they all kind of came to a halt or at least a big pause. And James had started a fashion show, a fashion line, literally September 10th. So it was like a collision of things kind of happened. And actually now that I say that, I think.
[00:23:00] Biggest kind of turning points in my career have been these like weird collisions of time and events happening at, at, at a given point. And at that one, Lionel came over to see the James, we had this kind of post nine 11, well, we've rented the show and bring our friends in to see the clothes. And then, um, you know, who knows what's going to happen next?
And Lionel said, I'm starting, I'm starting a business. Come join me. We have a nightclub project. And I remember saying like, no one wants to go to nightclubs anymore. Like, we're, you know, this, there was this sort of like heavy fog over the city and it just felt like nobody wants to go out. Nobody's feeling it.
Like we're all we're in this kind of understandable state of depression. But there was this kind of moment, almost like, you know, you can hold back the crowd, you can hold back the gates, but a certain point there's going to be [00:24:00] this pent up energy and demand to like get out and, you know, celebrate again.
We wondered if that could ever happen again. And it, and of course it did. And the timing was sort of like releasing the gates and everyone just kind of like bat outta hell, wanted to get out again. And so for the next few years it was just design build nightclubs go, and it was insane. But it was so different from what I had been doing before.
Like beautiful little details and Polish Chrome and Walnut edging, and like all that to four weeks, go get this place. Open lights, furniture concept. You know what weeks I remember one place that we did called Dorsia the owner. We were designed buildings, so we never did any. We only did the sketches we needed.
Tell our vendors what to build. So it would be like, we'd be standing there drawing a little [00:25:00] section saying, okay, here's what color the Christians are going to be. Um, and I just remember like painting stripes on a DJ booth, like two hours before the first guests were coming in. Like it was, it was theater.
It was just, you know, Get it, get it up and running for this Halloween party and, um, do whatever you need to do.
Dan Ryan: Oftentimes we spend oftentimes years working on projects, right? Um, so me on the furniture side, it could be years for you. It's probably even longer from concept to, uh, documentation through construction administration and then the open it to the opening.
Um, if you go back. So sometimes when I working on a project for so long, then. I'm like, okay. Yeah, this is great. Right. But if you, on your nightclub projects, if you think about all the different ones that you did and as hard as they are, and then in a four week lead time, which is as crazy, [00:26:00] what was the most exciting?
Project you worked on and not just on the nightclubs side. And when at that opening party, why was that the most exciting? And what was the most memorable?
Siobhan Barry: Oh God, I can't, I don't know if I could say which one was my favorite. Although crowbar was pretty epic. Um, 'cause that was so big. And, you know, there was that era of the big super clubs.
And this was, this was as big as it got, and it had so many different rooms and different experiences within it. And multiple DJs. Um, when you, when your work, when your work life. Is kind of part of your life, life to the point where, I mean, we're working seven days a week and just constantly, but when you crescendo to the opening and the opening is the party, so your, your deadlines are now a party.
That's a [00:27:00] great feeling because it's like every time you have a deadline, there's this massive celebration. That was good. I had to, I had to adjust my expectations as I got into other arenas. It's like, there's not always going to be fireworks and DJs when you finish your deadline,
Dan Ryan: because oftentimes we work, we work also hard on these hotel projects and there is an opening party.
It's fun, but it's very restrained. I feel as a. A nightclub opening party is just kind of off the rails. Just insane explosion, going back to that dark angel explosion kind of thing.
Siobhan Barry: Yeah. Uh, well, I'm going to come out of this with like hashtag dark angel going off, but, um, but yeah, it's the best. And I think, you know, we still, and I say we design leaders need to do that and remind ourselves like that.
The younger designers we work with, haven't always had that experience or haven't had that experience. Um, and so it's sort of like, we need to bring hospitality thinking also into our own [00:28:00] work, um, rhythms and, and, you know, schedules and remember to celebrate a little bit. I'm actually tonight I'm hosting my team here, um, to, to thank them for.
An amazing year. It's sort of a, um, what I wanted to be a tradition. And it couldn't start last year. And now I hope will be a, um, an ongoing tradition to, to cook dinner for them and host them in my, in my home. So it's not the same as a nightclub. There will not be a dark angel performance. Um, I hope it'll be fun.
Dan Ryan: I'm texting with James. I've sent him an outfit and he's going to, he's going to jump out of the trunk.
Siobhan Barry: He is the dark age.
Dan Ryan: So you are, maybe we just figured out your, uh, your Marvel or DC, whichever university you like better. Your that's your comic book hero, dark angel.
Siobhan Barry: Um,
Dan Ryan: I'll go with that. Okay, good. Um, so I've heard you say the word [00:29:00] celebrate a couple of times.
Um, the first time you said celebrate. Actually, I think it was the second time it was talking about opening nightclubs after September 11th. Like no one you're saying, oh, no one really wanted to go out and celebrate we're working on these. It might be too soon. And then there was this flood of this, basically it was, it was a.
That late nineties, early two or early two thousands was kind of like a Renaissance for nightclub nightlife in New York city. Fast forward from that, from your time at, I crave to the projects and the, and the types of things that you're working on at Gensler now, and thinking about COVID and people traveling and what you're working on, all these fabulous product projects at Gensler.
How, what are the similarities you're seeing between that moment after September 11th and celebration, and right now with all these projects and owners and developers that you're working on and [00:30:00] the, the feeling of too soon, or let's just go and celebrate, what are you seeing
against?
Siobhan Barry: It's sort of like, you know, the longer my career, um, that I, that I have a career, the more times I hear.
Okay. Something's dead or something's over. Something is like, no one's ever going to do that thing again. Like we, we heard it before we're back at that cycle and I think. If we've all seen this, like no, never count out this need of people to connect in real life and celebrate. Um, you know, I also actually have an Airbnb and it's funny because I saw firsthand people needed a place to get together with their family and celebrate.
The smallest things, the birthday, the, you know, the baby being born, the grandparents, 80th birthday, whatever it was, there was no. There's no kind of, [00:31:00] you know, global pandemic that's ever going to be able to suppress that that need. And so as we kind of get back to life and get back to normal, whatever normal is, these are the things that are leading, like these groups, these connections, and especially in the resort and especially in the leisure market.
Um, and it's, you know, it's interesting, like the opening of the auditors. Is like, so perfectly time to Disney's 50th anniversary and this kind of like, I'm talking about celebration, like they were designed for celebration. The hotel was actually positioned to see fireworks from different angles and the rooms were designed to be able to host, um, there's large tables in the suites.
There's like, they're kind of built in for these, like, you know, Celebrations at this very like small scale, um, but in a big, in a big setting or with other people around. [00:32:00] So I'm, I've completely lost sense of the question, but I feel like celebration is, um, it's what we do to kind of get through all the tough parts we have to have that we, we need like the places and the support and the hospitality to, to let those things happen.
Dan Ryan: And I think it was maybe mark Twain, who said that history may not repeat itself, but it definitely rhymes. So the, the real part of the, the, what I was really trying to get to is, okay, so too soon nightclubs, but now on the hotel side and it, and all that stuff that you're talking about at Disney, how has it rhyming the hold back from after shortly after September 11th, to where we are.
Siobhan Barry: Just, I think that, um, we need, we need to get together physically. Okay. We've, we've established that we can't be away from our friends and [00:33:00] families without losing our minds because they're how we get through all the tough stuff. So there's the physical need. There's just, um, you know, how has it rhyming? I think.
There's also this kind of like the longer you hold something back, the more urgent it's going to feel and you know, the return to travel, the return to air travel. I don't know if you've been on a plane lately, but it's like, everyone is back. Everyone is doubling up on the travel this season, especially. I mean, um, so I think those are the kinds of.
You know, the just basic human things that we need. It's not the same, same, you know, we're not like there's still all these things where we have to reinvent and we have to figure out and, um, You know, people want it on their own terms in a way that we're, that we're not, that is new. I [00:34:00] think. So what does that mean?
When I travel for an event, you know, I want the private chef. I want the, um, the customized program. I want the, you know, I hate to use the word curated, but like, there's this sort of build it for me. Um, aspect to how people are grow. I'm saying this about group and leisure travel. Um, so it's a little bit different, but I think that there's, that's also kind of where we are.
That's different from, it was from where it was in 2001.
Dan Ryan: You said something just now as a, build it for me, speaking about, you know, Hey, let's all get out and do this stuff, but it also made me think about. Siobhan says she has an Airbnb in passing, but it's not in passing. Like where you're sitting right now is a brownstone in Brooklyn that you basically gut renovated you.
You basically. Were you swinging sledgehammers yourself [00:35:00]
Siobhan Barry: only a little bit only just for demo. That's like the photo op, but we didn't really knows that door close.
Dan Ryan: That that's beautiful. I heard someone really interesting say the types of projects on the design side that they work on. While they appreciate the small developer whose dream it's been to build a hotel and they put their whole life savings into that hotel.
They love the passion, but that's not their clients. Right. They want to work with the people, the larger developers, where they're really putting some big money and executing a vision. So that it's almost, there's a level of almost impersonality, but it's still important. As you go from working from your retail slash nightclub experience to the types of projects right now, like who is your ideal client or clients at, at [00:36:00] Gensler?
Like if you could describe them,
Siobhan Barry: I'll describe one that I'm really enjoying working with. Although I won't name them and they are a company. Um, and I think. You know, it's never one person because you know, we work with entities and corporations on some of these projects. I mean, on all projects, it's a team effort.
Sometimes you're going to have that single visionary, bombastic creator leader, but more often than not we're teams of people with different. Interests or different aspects of the project that, you know, they, we each need different parts to succeed. And I, I love the challenge of being able to pull those needs together.
So for this particular client, um, you know, we're working on a first-class lounge and there are people whose job it is, is in an airport. There are people's jobs, people whose job it is [00:37:00] to, um, Consider all the port authority and, you know, TSA elements that are like restrictions to me, those are just constraints and you know, how can we be creative and make something feel amazing in hospitality, but also solve all those needs.
It's kind of like when you're on a cruise ship project, it has to meet such intense restrictions. It forces you to be very creative. Um, so we have. That aspect of it. Then we have the operational challenge, um, of what it means to actually run one of these places. And, um, what are the, you know, this isn't a Manhattan project, this is a airport project.
So we have to think about it from a completely different way in terms of. What will the food and the beverage program be like, can it be as good? Can we get it to this place that it's gonna, you know, have the same level of quality and expectation that we would at a, let's say a, a side project. And, [00:38:00] and so they have teams of hospitality, people, and they come in with their incredible expertise.
And then we have, you know, The money. People who need to make sure that this is all going to fit a budget. So if, if we leave out any one of those and I'm leaving out dozens of stakeholders, but just to simplify like that complexity, I think is where it's like, if we can, if we can connect on all of these parts and.
Listen and understand all the needs and bring them together in a way. Now you get the symphony and now you get this opportunity to do something that can really, you know, again, surprise going back to the surprise concept, push the boundary and surprise someone who's going to come in here.
Dan Ryan: Love that because in all elements of.
Projects that you're working on life. Business constraints are really what facilitated the most innovation. If you just think about them, not as impediments, but challenges of how we work around. What's the [00:39:00] biggest, um, constraint that you've ever experienced on a project. And how did you get around it?
Siobhan Barry: The biggest constraint ever on a project, you know what the.
I'm not going to be able to give you a specific project, but I'm going to tell you that the hardest thing I find to design is when there's no budget, there's no like the sky's the limit. You can spend all the money in the world. I think we need, I need that. Um, something to, to, to. I don't want to say battle against, but some at the constraint to like push against, because I mean, just, it's sort of like gooey in my mind, it doesn't have like any wall of them.
It's just like, what is it? And you know, that you need, I need that little bit of grit. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: I love that. And I actually was having a conversation recently about this, where [00:40:00] there was no budget. Right. So then we're just trying to fumble along and figure it out. And. You S you sail you've sailed. Yeah. I used
Siobhan Barry: to teach sailing.
Dan Ryan: Oh, you did use to teach them. Oh yeah. I remember you told me that. Okay. So, but it was this idea of, okay, so you have these ideas of where you want me to be. I am on this path with just kind of plugging it along. And it's the idea of dead reckoning, right. Where it's like, okay, well, I know where I am. I know where I want to get to.
So I'm going to take all the different inputs around me and kind of get there, but it's limited. Because if I can hear, if I have other points of reference constraints or otherwise, it really allows me to. Be way more efficient and plan that out.
Siobhan Barry: Right? There's more inputs and there's more kind of like hierarchy and, um, you know, you, you don't have as many choices and you have to make the best decision with the information you have and [00:41:00] you, you can't just kind of float around there forever.
Dan Ryan: As you think about constraints just out there in the, in the world, as it pertains to. Anything work life, you name it well, what's keeping you up at night these days,
Siobhan Barry: making sure. I think what keeps me up at night is, um, you know, we've come out of this, uh, time of where we were all just kind of struggling to stay afloat during COVID making sure we w you know, we're. Keeping the workflow coming in and that we had, you know, enough, literally enough to do, to keep going.
And, and we got through that and now we're in this time of like change and growth and, um, we have an incredibly loyal and talented [00:42:00] team. And, you know, I wanna, I think about like, are they. Challenged enough, but not over challenged. Do they have, you know, do they have the support as we grow? Do they have, are they still feeling the growth opportunities?
Because the talents, everything, and we need them to stay motivated, stay inspired, keep growing and, um, help us kind of reinvent this or invent this next phase that we're going through. Um, I guess that's partly why I'm having them for dinner tonight.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Connect. I mean, that's the best way to, I find really connect is how people over into your home, into your life.
It's, uh, it's amazing. And you know, you say and thinking about who's going to be there and how you're going to be delivering hospitality to them. And then you saying talent is everything. There's this. Thing going on where it, you know, [00:43:00] we're in this hiring crisis, blah, blah, blah. But how do you find and recruit the best talent?
Siobhan Barry: There are things we can teach someone and there are things we can't. So if you are. Young and inexperienced, but you're curious, and you are interested in seeing the world. And if you are passionate about something creative, whether it's, you know, baking cakes or hand drawing or whatever it is, if you, I, I, we can't teach that.
I can't teach someone that, um, the other stuff is hard skills and. We can teach that. And you know, it helps if you have some experience, but I think mostly it's like, make sure these people, these are the people who want to be there and want to learn and want to grow. [00:44:00] And, you know, they don't just see this as a job.
They see this as an opportunity. Um, I mean, we get to do hospitality, right? Like who wouldn't want to do this? It's fun, but it's, it comes with a lot of challenges and the time and the pressures, we all know this it's there. You guys see it. Um, so I think it's, it's really about, does this person want to grow and learn and contribute in that way?
Dan Ryan: Yeah. I love that. It's it's, it's, uh, almost. And I hear this a lot higher for culture and the culture in this case is who's curious, who wants their curiosity, quenched, because then you can teach the hard skills on anything.
Siobhan Barry: Right. And ultimately I want them to teach me, you know, I don't know everything and I don't want to become kind of in this status of, I think I've seen it all done at all.
You know, surprise me, show me something. Um, that's the, that's the. [00:45:00] That's the goal.
Dan Ryan: I love that. Um, and then as you think about those flood gates, as you said earlier, what's exciting you most about the future?
Siobhan Barry: All the good projects that are like either in the can or kind of, um, coming up soon. And I think like seeing.
Seeing this kind of new world, get that we're coming out of post. COVID get. Built and placed into practice in, in our, in the next phase of, I mean, we're going to always all together be continually reinventing this new way of connecting new way of gathering new way of traveling. Um, but I just think it's such an interesting dynamic time right now.
So, um, that's like, what's next. That's what, that's what excites me
Dan Ryan: when we think about what's next.[00:46:00]
Where do you see as far as like being a part of this huge global company of Gensler, because I don't know how many people you have working there, but how, how does that in, in where you are now, as far as having the whole world kind of surrounded by all of your talented teams everywhere, how does that help.
With what excites you about what's coming next?
Siobhan Barry: Bristled at any, anytime in my life where I felt like, um, you're kind of looking down like this yawning future, and it's sort of like, um, and part of why I came to New York was I was graduating from university and all my classmates were kind of moving. Toronto, which is the closest city and it's where I had grown up.
Um, and we'd all kind of had jobs in Toronto [00:47:00] during our, our university career there. I should say college because I've been here long enough now, a college career. And I just was like, if w if we're already moving into our futures, like right now, like, this is like, I felt like I was looking down this 20 year, like tunnel.
And I was like, I'm out of here. And I went to New York just for a year. That's what I said to myself just for a year. Um, yeah, funny how I've got time flies, but it's like any time something's getting too predictable or static or expected on board already and it hasn't even happened yet. So what I love about Gensler and what I, what I think and hope my team members love too, is.
We are big. And the we're a small group, our little hospitality group, and we're the, we're the hospitality experts. Um, but we can contribute in a [00:48:00] way that allows us to plug into many projects, um, across the globe. And so this phone call kind of count can come out of the blue of, um, your expertise, your team's extra.
Is needed over here or, you know, the client liked what you did over there and wants you to do that thing. And then, so it's sort of like plant these little seeds and you just don't know what's going to pop up in and in what country it's going to pop up. And, and so the, the scale and that kind of surprise factor, I think is what keeps it really exciting for me.
Dan Ryan: Scale and surprise factor. I love that. Um, how old were you when you taught sailing and where did you teach it again?
Siobhan Barry: So I let's see. I would have been. I think from like 15 to 19, maybe, um, that would have been that's in Toronto. And I used to teach at a couple different sailing clubs and I used to race and I used to teach, [00:49:00] uh, racing and, and it was, it was a whole immersive part of my youth.
Dan Ryan: And, uh, at the time when you were 15 and 19 years, you're like going out in a raging at nightclub.
Siobhan Barry: No, no, no. That's James. Oh, great. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: So no, I was joking. Um, so if you were to take the Siobhan of today, the one who I'm speaking with right now, and you go back to that sailing instructor, Siobhan what advice do you give your 18 year old self?
Siobhan Barry: Take more risks.
Dan Ryan: And tell me more about that.
Siobhan Barry: You know that expression. I don't know if you know this expression. Someone said this once. I thought it was, it described me perfectly, somewhat. It was a joke when I was young, I wanted to be a rebel, but my mom wouldn't let me,
I think I had a little bit of that. Um, I was, you know, [00:50:00] internally battling to kind of, you know, Get out and express myself and, um, you know, not worry about safety all the time. Maybe it's a middle child thing. We can get a little psychoanalysis going here, but I think, um, you know, getting a little bit more adventure when I was younger, I was, I was shy in a way that you probably, since you've seen me karaoke, you're probably not going to, um, imagine as possible, but, um, maybe I'm just a late bloomer.
Dan Ryan: I don't think so. I will actually would, would that 15 to 19 year old Siobhan would, would she sing karaoke? No, not even a remote.
Siobhan Barry: Uh, no, no, no, no.
Dan Ryan: But you are putting yourself out there and teaching other groups of kids to sail, right? Some that might freak other people out leading groups. Well,
Siobhan Barry: maybe, actually that's what helped me start to come out of it.
Yeah. I remember [00:51:00] feeling terrified for that first day of like, these kids are going to be looking at me and, um, you know, I knew I liked sailing and I knew I needed a summer job, but then there was the terror buildup of like, people are going to be looking at me and I, I need to know what I'm supposed to say.
Um, which kind of happens now every single day of my, of my life. Um, I need to figure out what, what the hell I'm going to say. Someone's looking at me. And so I guess that was where I started to be comfortable in that role. Now that you mentioned God, I haven't thought about that time in so many years, but yeah, I think that that's, um, probably, uh, it's probably a confidence builder and also a way to start to connect with people.
And I've been where they've were. So I knew, you know, what they're afraid of or what they're. Scared of her feeling or, you know, so if you can empathize and connect and then start from that,
Dan Ryan: I think I learned this sale as a [00:52:00] kid and I didn't do it as much, not to the level that you were at all, but what I loved about.
A sailboat and charts and navigation is it, it's like a little laboratory to learn so much about everything from just, um, physics to trigonometry, to aerodynamics, to hydrodynamics, to just survival skills. It's an amazing laboratory. Um, what did, what do you think. Sailing taught you the most
Siobhan Barry: of God, this is great.
I think, you know, you've touched on it a little bit when you were talking about, um, you know, the, kind of the inputs and the, um, you know, the multiple multi-faceted approach. And I'm thinking right now, just being in a race and, and thinking about, um, You know, the wind speed, the wind direction, the changing wind direction, the tide direction, the, um, competition, [00:53:00] the ferry boat, the mark, the everything I think.
And with all that kind of keeping a cool head and staying calm and just kind of remembering what's the most important thing happening in that moment. Um, so it's like, yes, all these things are happening, but we're going to stay focused. So I guess it's, it's um, It's that prioritization or it's that, you know, you need to, you need to find a breathing point to, to make it all work.
Otherwise you're just going to be in a panic. Yeah. And there's always something. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Sorry. Yeah, no. And then when you're in the panic, it's like, you always have to give way to the one who did the other who's on the starboard tack, right?
Siobhan Barry: Exactly. Like your plan might not actually work because someone else's plan overrides yours.
Um, and so we're responding and, and just getting creative and something's not gonna work like guaranteed. There will be a technical challenge in any race. Your Spinnaker [00:54:00] is not going to come up or whatever's going to happen. And you just kind of have to roll with it and fix things on the fly or, you know, make adjustments, bail, water,
Dan Ryan: whatever it takes.
I love saying I got a sale more. It's like, I don't do it nearly enough and I want to get my kids involved in it. Thank you for making me remember why I love sailing so much. It's really like the most for me, it was the best way to learn even just math, like actually getting out there and sailing and learning how to charge.
Yeah. It's, it's amazing. And it's served me well as I, you know, I loved physics when I was in high school. Um, it just served me really well. And all of that.
Siobhan Barry: I think one thing as you're talking about it, cause again, I haven't thought about this in many years. When I think about. You know, James says to me sometimes, why don't you ever sail anymore?
I said, well, I, it wasn't sailing. It was racing. Um, or it was teaching. So I w I would never just get in a sailboat and go [00:55:00] out. Um, it was always with this other purpose, and that just happened to be through sailing. You know, it was a race that just happened to be in a sailboat. Um, I think it's an important distinction because that intensity in that competition, um, was really what was driving force.
Dan Ryan: Oh, so you were just sailing, but it, and I. But it brought out that competitive spirit and working within these constraints of life and death or potential injury. And I can totally see how that would translate to the dark angel.
Siobhan Barry: Okay. Uh, I'm going to think about that one there for a second. I don't think I'm a dark angel at the tiller, let's say, but, um, but I'm going to, but maybe my boat now.
Dark
Dan Ryan: angel. Yes. I love it. Or your karaoke name at the very
Siobhan Barry: least. Yeah. We're coming away with some serious
Dan Ryan: hashtags. I love it. Um, Shamana this has been awesome. If people want it to reach out or see kind of [00:56:00] what you guys are up to. How do people get in touch with you?
Siobhan Barry: Shoot me an email, shoot me a text. Um, you know, one of the things that we're working on, you know, as I mentioned.
Uh, I always love to show the work we're doing in progress because that's what's next. Um, so when you are curious, if you're curious, I'd love to walk you through it and show you what we're doing and tell you about how our team and how talented they are and the kind of things we're producing. Um, because some of our projects take a few years to bring to fruition, but they're the exciting ones.
And, um, you won't find it on our website.
Dan Ryan: Totally. Well, okay. Well, I will, in the show notes, I will have the website for the company. I'll have your LinkedIn up in there. Um, this is primary on Instagram. Oh, and oh yeah. What's your Instagram I'll call J Thomas. Okay. I'll put it in there as well. Okay. Um, well Chavonne, I just want to say.
Thank you so much. And I can't wait until we're [00:57:00] karaoking again.
Siobhan Barry: Yeah. And thanks for making me think about sailing again, and, uh, a lot of fun things that I'd forgotten. So this has been, uh, a fun way to talk.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. A fun way to get together. Always better to do it in person, which has just been so difficult on so many levels of the past year and a half.
I will see you. It says gold. And I also just wanted to say thank you to the listeners. I hope that this talk was Chavonne has evolved your understanding of hospitality, designing for it in the built environment and just working within constraints. And if it did, please pass it along to a friend. Thank you everyone so much.
We'll see you next time.