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Do Good Work is not a label but a way of living.
It is the constant and diligent effort to achieve a new level of excellence in one’s own life.
It is the hidden inner beauty behind the struggle to achieve excellence.
It is not perfect but imperfect.
It is the effort, discipline and focus that often goes unnoticed.
The goal of this podcast is to highlight that drive.
The guests I have on this show emulate this drive in their own special way. You’ll be able to apply new ideas into your own life by learning from them.
We will also have 1on1 episodes with me where we’ll dive into my own experiences with entrepreneurship and leadership.
Every episode is designed to provide you with ideas that you can apply and grow in excellence in all areas of your life, business and career.
Do Good Work,
Raul
INTRO
PODCAST
Raul: All right.
Welcome back to the pod.
Today I have Jeff Riles.
He is the founder and principle of Verus
Group and his team empowers nonprofits
worldwide to transform their mid and
major gifts through relationship driven
and analytically backed strategies.
Jeff, welcome to the pod.
Jeff Schreifels: Hey,
thanks for having me.
Raul: One of the things that I, I, I love
doing like these pre-interview shows,
uh, just because I get more insight
about like what, what Jeff is about.
The really cool thing that I
wanna dive into, Jeff, you've been
doing this for how many years now?
Like over 38 years.
You don't really have a true competitor
yet in the services game yet.
You're open sourcing,
literally all your processes.
Walk me through that.
Jeff Schreifels: Yeah.
So very early on in.
When we started, actually, I've been
in fundraising for 38 years, but
Verdis has been around for 16 years.
When we first started verdis, we said,
whatever we know about all of
this work, we want to about it,
talk about it, and give it away.
So initially we created this blog and
just wrote about all the different,
what major gifts should be about.
And we just gave away all of our secrets.
How do we actually, how are we
successful with major gift officers?
And we just wrote about that.
And then we created white
papers and, and that turned,
eventually, that turned into book.
We've written two books and you could
just read our books and if you wanted to.
You could create your own mid and
major gift program or enhance it from
everything we've already written have
podcasted about or did webinars about
you have it, it's available, we also
knew that if we gave it as everything
away, some of it would come back.
It's, for us, it's kind
of a law of the universe.
The more you give, more
that comes back to you.
And did.
People started calling us saying,
Hey, I read this and it was really
intriguing and we need help.
Raul: It's pretty cool.
'cause I like that that fact, I mean,
the more you give out, but it's also,
it's the best sale in the world.
It's like there's so much to do.
Like I'm read if, if I read your material
so much to do, I'm so overwhelmed.
The best sale in the world is like, Hey,
do you want me to just to do it for you?
And it's not even a sale, it's just
like, Hey, let's just take it off
your load and, and support you.
Help me understand a little bit more
about the difference between mid and major
gifts and what you actually mean by that.
Jeff Schreifels: so every nonprofit
has hopefully has some kind of
a donor base that donor base.
Depending on the size of the
organization mid and major gift donors.
A major donor, let's just say, could
be 10,000 q and above per year.
Everyone who's giving at that level
and above could be considered a major.
If you were a university, you'd
probably say it's 50,000 or even a
hundred thousand and above mid-level is
typically around the thousand to 9,009.
Nine nine group.
That's typically, but for smaller
organizations, a mid-level donor
could be 250 to 999, and a major
gift could be a thousand and above.
So it really depends on the organization's
size and how long they've been,
uh, in, in business, essentially.
But that's kind of what we mean.
By mid and major, and if you're a major
gift officer, you would have no more than
150 donors in a portfolio that you're
working You'd have somewhere around
600 donors in a mid-level portfolio.
Raul: Yeah, so their, their revenue
strategy is pretty much to, to get the
funds to be able to provide the work.
Um, a lot of the things that you mentioned
in the brand ethos is around principled.
Um, what, what is, what,
what is true that works here?
You've been doing this, I mean,
the company's 16 years, but you've
been doing it over 35 years.
Jeff Schreifels: Yeah.
Raul: Walk me through what are the
principles that you know to work?
Because it's, if we, if we extract
this and we look at this from
a very high level, the art of.
Showing value, having other people place
that value in transacting in the gift
of of dollars here, it's the same thing
that happens at sales regardless of
you're not a nonprofit and you're selling
services or you're selling products.
It's the same act.
So I really wanna dive into
those principles 'cause I think
that'll transcend also industries,
uh, nonprofit for profit.
But I'd love to get your story 'cause
you've done this internationally too.
Jeff Schreifels: Yeah.
The big principle is this, for every
and everywhere around major gifts and
mid-level, is that ultimate thing that
a mid-level or a major gift officer
is trying to do is figure out the
passions and interests of the donor
and relate it to all the programs and
projects that that organization has.
And bringing it together.
So they're the bridge between that donor
and their desire to change the world.
all the programs you have at your
nonprofit that are doing just
that, and your job is to figure
out how to put that together.
so that means you are trying
to build a relationship with
those donors to understand.
What are their passions and interests?
Why do they have them?
led them in their life to have those
passions and interests that you
can accurately look at everything
you're doing with your nonprofit.
And put it together.
That's, that really is the
overlying principle of all of that.
And that transcends culture, transcends
country, uh, languages, everything
That is the key to all of it.
And you know, it's, it's a
classic sales approach too, right?
A good sales person is trying to figure
out customer and what their desires are.
And their product and what
is it within that product
that's gonna bring them value?
Raul: Completely agree.
And, and I, it's, I know it sounds
super simple, but the art of doing
that, processing, that actually
running it, because it's, you can't
have 20 meetings with a donor.
For one initial gift, just
like in a sales process.
I mean, you might, but
that's also inefficient.
How, how have you found to operational,
because when you work with different
teams, obviously different capacities,
different donor bases, different funding
amounts, uh, what are usually the,
the first couple of handful of things,
maybe two or three things you look at to
operationalize that ethos of let's focus
on what they care about and matching.
Jeff Schreifels: I'll walk you through
what we call the verus way, which
operationalizes everything about that
whole thing about being the bridge
between the donor and the need.
So what we do is we start out,
we look at the or, uh, data.
The data tells us a story of how
are they treating their donors.
you can look at that data over
the last five years and look at
what we call value attrition.
So donor gives five years ago.
Let's say $10,000.
What are they giving today?
And we'll, we'll look at every donor
that has given over a certain amount
that they would describe as a major donor
and see how those donors are behaving.
And typically what we see is like
40 to 60% in value attrition.
So if five years ago they were giving
10,000, now they're only giving 4,000.
Raul: Hmm.
Jeff Schreifels: you do that with,
you know, hundreds of donors.
That is millions of dollars
that are going away.
the fact is, is that most nonprofits
don't even know that's happening
because new donors keep coming in
every year and mass the behavior
of the donors the year before.
So they may be
Raul: Yeah, so it's.
Jeff Schreifels: line, all
these donors are going off.
And when we, when we expose
that have, they had no idea.
So looking at data is the first step.
then for us.
Once they say, Hey, we need your help.
We help them establish donor pools,
meaning a donor who has qualified by
their giving as a major gift donor.
Let's just say it's 10,000 above.
We'll look at all the donors
that are given 10,000 above in
the last two years, let's say.
They don't be, they're, they are not put
into a portfolio until we qualify them.
So that's the first thing.
All donors in a portfolio that we work
with are qualified, meaning that the
donor wants the relationship with us.
Okay.
Raul: How do you do that?
Jeff Schreifels: There's a whole
process that we go through.
There's seven to nine
steps that actually we
Raul: Wow.
Jeff Schreifels: sales where.
You are trying to the opportunity for a
donor to respond to you saying positively.
Yes, I do want you to
send me update reports.
I do wanna visit I, all
of those kind of things.
So once they're qualified,
they're put into a portfolio.
We tier the donors A, B, and C,
no more than 150 A, B, and C.
We put a revenue goal for every donor.
we cashflow that so that we all
know what's expected every month.
And then there's a strategic plan
attached to every donor that where
we, where we're going to go with them
for the whole 12, next 12 months.
So that plan.
So in a sense, the major gift officer
knows exactly what they're doing
every day with all of their donors.
That gives them the freedom.
To be able to build those
relationships because they now
are not going all over the place.
They're not distracted.
They know exactly what they're doing.
So that structure them to have the freedom
to actually build those relationships.
And then we work with them make sure
that they actually work their plan.
Raul: Yeah, the
accountability, the execution.
Jeff Schreifels: for them.
Raul: Do you think the attrition
is, uh, there's a lot of parallels
here, obviously with, with, uh, the,
the work that in the business world,
not in the profit, profit side.
I know the only difference I
think is like the tax code.
I think the operations
usually are the same.
It's an emotional sale too.
But when you, um, do you think it's
awareness when the attrition happens,
you think it's mostly, oh, I forgot
about you, or you never stayed in touch
with me, or I never felt connection.
Is it an awareness thing or is it mostly
like, no, it didn't feel like they were.
Important or taken care of
Jeff Schreifels: It's all
of that, but the number
Raul: to all of them.
Jeff Schreifels: donors either
stop giving or give less year over
year, and this is proven out survey
after survey of donors for years.
The number one reason is that.
Donors don't know what their gift did.
In other words, they
Raul: Mm.
Jeff Schreifels: gift and no one
reported back the impact of that gift.
Raul: What it actually did.
Jeff Schreifels: It actually did.
And so donors find other
places to give that do that.
This is the number one re
thing that nonprofits fail at.
They don't report back on the impact,
or they don't th first of all, they
don't thank them properly, then they
don't report back on the impact.
And they're generally not
servicing those donors well.
They don't look at donors
part of their mission.
And if a nonprofit actually looked at
donors as part of their mission, they
would realize we have a responsibility to
that donor to find joy in their giving.
And if you had that ethos, that
philosophy, would change how the
infrastructure of your organization.
So that program teams really did have a.
to report back that impact
and they saw the value in it.
A lot of times program people think
fundraising is just a necessary
evil part of the nonprofit,
Raul: crazy.
Yeah.
Jeff Schreifels: but we want to have a
full culture of philanthropy within our
organization so that everyone understands
the role, the valuable role that donors
have in making that mission happen.
Raul: Yeah.
They, they are, they pretty
much are part of the mission.
And one of the things too, this is
that I work, when I work with teams is.
Whoever, again, buyer, donor, they have
to see themselves in the end outcome.
And if they don't see themselves
then, then they're never gonna buy,
they're never gonna take action.
So it's the same thing here.
I have to see what my gift
actually did, so I can see part
of who I am through that gift.
'cause it's an emotional thing,
everything that we do, Hey, that
we're, we're seeking an emotion.
Jeff Schreifels: yeah.
Raul: Um, so that's, that's a
really interesting parallel though.
It, it sounds like you, you,
you think deeply around.
Ethos and like the things that your
company stands for, the thing that,
you know, people at the nonprofits
like the, the, the fundraising or
the staff members, some of the ethos.
What are some of those core ethos that
you operate by internally as a company?
I'm curious.
Jeff Schreifels: Well, we're driven
by one, making sure that every donor.
Will experience the most possible joy
and satisfaction through their giving.
And then we're driven by, uh, that
is will reach as many fundraisers as
possible with the verus way overall.
internally, we want to create a
culture at verus where the people
that work with us find meaningful
employment and joy in their work.
And so you know, we.
We want to have employees that
are that love what they do.
We wanna have organizations
that, uh, are equipped with the
right way to do fundraising.
And then finally that those donors.
also find joy in their giving.
That's what drives us, and we wanna
reach as many people in the world with
that because we truly believe this
is the right way to do fundraising,
to build those relationships.
We don't, in fact, we don't believe
fundraising is anything about the money.
It's not really about the money.
It's about building
authentic relationships.
The money follows.
If you do that well and build those
relationships, if you really are truly
intent and helping the donor find joy
in their giving, the money will follow.
We see it all the
Raul: Interesting.
Yeah.
And I, and I say interesting because
this is another parallel to you
gave away all your information
and the money will follow.
What are some other like meta, meta
ethoses that you, that you live by?
'cause this is a principle, this is
the thing that I love about these
conversations is like there's principles
that you knowingly or knowingly
follow that I think we can all learn
from, but, so that's the key thing.
Give and then it'll come back to you.
What are other things that you consciously
or subconsciously like do to operate?
Because I mean 16 years.
38 years doing it.
I mean, this is a, this
is a real proven method.
So what, what else?
Jeff Schreifels: I think what
I refer to it as the verus
way, which is the structure.
Raul: Yeah.
Jeff Schreifels: If you supply, if you
give people the right structure to work
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Schreifels: boundaries, they
are actually more creative and free.
It's, you know, 'cause you give them
a boundary and a place and, and a
container in a sense, and within that
they can find enormous creativity.
And you, when you talk to a fundraiser
that goes and starts developing,
Their work using our structure.
They first kind of push shop against
it and they're like, oh, I, I wanna
be able to do this and I want to
try these donors, and no, you're
gonna work within this framework.
And then once they get into it, like
a year later, they go through it
and they realize they've exceeded
their goals with their donors
and all this great stuff happens.
they're like, wow, you know what?
was really against doing it this way,
but I actually realize I, I'm a much
better fundraiser if I have work within
a structure and I have someone holding
me accountable and keeping me focused.
And uh, that's, that's the thing.
The structure actually
lets you be more creative.
Raul: It creates the, it
creates the, uh, opportunity.
It's also like the, not sure if
you read or heard the study of
like children in playgrounds.
If there's no fence, they
play at the very center.
But if there is a fence, they actually
all play to the very edges of the
fence so they have more space.
Just because you put a fence there.
Uh,
Jeff Schreifels: There you go.
Raul: yeah.
Jeff Schreifels: Yeah.
Raul: Say principle there.
Jeff Schreifels: Yep.
Raul: is interesting.
Well, Jeff, what, what year we're, we're
end of year now leading into the new year.
What are some of the things that your
you and the team are looking to expand
into or continue doing or new things?
Jeff Schreifels: We are cons.
So we have, uh, in 2016 we started a,
what we call our Verdis Group Academy,
which is our online training platform.
So what we wanted to do is how do we
get the Verdis way into the, into the
hands of most, uh, fundraisers all
over that can't afford consulting?
Well, let's put everything we've
learned into training online training,
and we can price it in a way.
That everyone could afford it.
And so that is something
we're always trying to expand.
And right now we're putting in different
languages, Spanish, Italian, It's amazing
how people are taking it, you know,
signing up for courses people are really
hungry on how to do this relationship
based fundraising really well.
so that's something we're
always trying to innovate.
We're out, you know, every three years
or so we're updating those courses.
We're doing new things.
Um, we're now gonna be expanding
in different languages.
And then on the consulting coaching
side, where we're really working with
fundraisers one-on-one internationally.
This year, like we doubled in size
next year we're doubling again.
so
Raul: way.
Jeff Schreifels: an, what we found is
that, typically Europe has been behind
the US in fundraising strategy techniques
probably about 15 to 20 years behind.
And so they, they've caught up
on the direct response side,
you know, when you're sending
out mail or email and you're
Raul: Oh yeah.
Jeff Schreifels: so they.
They've caught up on that and they,
they're really doing well on that.
What they haven't really done well
is the relationship building side.
And
Raul: Hmm.
Jeff Schreifels: like this summer
I was at, I, I spoke at the Italian
fundraising festival and the Spanish
one in Madrid, and amazing how people
are, this is where they want to go.
This, this is what they're hungry for.
And so that's why we're
seeing revenue for us double.
the number of
Raul: That's incredible.
Jeff Schreifels: now realizing we've gotta
do this work, is growing more and more.
Raul: Do you think I, I, one of the
things that I'm seeing on my end, um,
a lot of, well, one of the circles
in the space that I'm in is a lot of
heavy tech go to market and I think.
There's a lot of jadedness and, uh,
regurgitation from all the AI outreach and
the, the fake looking like relationship.
And a lot of the old school
principle-based sales approaches are
happening again, like they're rebounding
where it's like, oh, you should actually
grab that coffee with that, like
logical things that you and I would
be like, well, that's kind of obvious,
but I'm just putting it out there.
That, that's one of the things I'm seeing.
Are you, you kind of seeing the
same thing like we're, we're.
Jeff Schreifels: yeah.
Raul: We're yearning more for that
relationship communal base as a culture.
'cause you're seeing this
across multiple cultures.
Jeff Schreifels: Yes.
So I look at AI as a gift.
fundraisers because they, if it can
help them, make them more efficient,
uh, take care of menial tasks, them
know their donors better, help them
get out things to their donors quicker,
all really good because at the end of
the day, what we want to do is have
meaningful connections with donors
and that real and a donor that's
going to give a 6, 7, 8 figure gift.
Is going to want that They wanna trust
the organization and I really feel
it's gotta come from a human being.
So I think any, I think donors
will always want that connection.
The, uh, they'll want a connection with a
major gift officer or a mid-level officer.
Who's really the representative of
that organization, they, they're going
to need that human connection now.
All the other stuff that organizations
are using with ai, great.
I mean, that will make
their job much easier.
Raul: Yeah, but cross.
Cross-culturally, are you seeing more of
a yearning for relationship, like from
the different countries that you're in and
the different groups that you're working?
Jeff Schreifels: Yes.
Raul: Yeah.
'cause I'm sensing that too,
even in the online communities.
Jeff Schreifels: great job overseas of
taking our direct response stuff, which I
Raul: Yeah.
Jeff Schreifels: that's
hands off fundraising.
It's all, it's all good stuff because
they're building donor files and they're
trying to basically cast a wide net to see
how many donors they can bring in that.
Care about that mission.
that's all good stuff.
But that's all they've been doing.
So they've got donors who can give million
dollar gifts, yet all they're doing is
sending them emails, asking them for a
thousand dollars or a thousand euros.
They're not set up to help bring
that donor through what I call
the donor pipeline and making it
as easy as possible for a donor
to give to their heart's content.
So in a sense, they've, having a mid
or major gift program, they basically
have told the donor, Hey, this is
all we're gonna ask of you don't,
don't even, you don't have to think
about giving bigger gifts 'cause
we're never gonna ask you to do that.
Raul: That's crazy.
Jeff Schreifels: Now they're realizing,
okay, those strategies that have worked
so well for us, they're starting to get
more expensive and the results are not
as great, but we've got all these donors
they probably could give more if we
actually reached out to them one-on-one.
So now
Raul: Big competitive advantage.
Jeff Schreifels: yeah,
Raul: No, I love it.
Jeff Schreifels: develop
those relationships now.
Raul: That is key.
Jeff, for our listeners out there,
where's the best place for people?
One to thank you for being on and also
learn a little bit more about you.
Jeff Schreifels: Wow.
They, they can go to our
website, um verus group.com.
There is a tab there I want everyone
to on, and that's our resource tab.
where all of our content is.
That's where all of our white papers,
our blogs, our podcasts, our webinars.
All of that is available to you.
take advantage of that.
You know, especially like if
you're new to this, uh, or you need
some new ideas, it's all there.
Um, so please take advantage of that.
You can find us on LinkedIn, um,
and, uh, we'll connect there.
Raul: Wonderful.
I will put those links on the show notes.
Jeff.
Thanks again man.
Jeff Schreifels: Thank you.
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