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Mismatched desire is one of the most common dynamics a couple can face. It can create guilt, rejection, fear of incompatibility, and even exhaustion from the "spice it up" advice which often doesn’t work. In this episode, couples and sex therapist Inez Cordoba, LICSW, CST responds to an anonymous question from a heterosexual, married couple raising young children who are trying to find a way to manage a persistent gap in desire.
While it's tempting to frame a desire gap as a relationship flaw, or a question of who's right or wrong, this episode treats it as something to manage together. The case Inez makes throughout is that taking the pressure off is actually key for desire to show up.
Inez walks through how to actually assess a desire gap: taking an honest snapshot of the relationship's overall health and life circumstances, ruling out physical and medical causes, separating libido from arousal, and reframing sex itself so that eroticism and playfulness stop collapsing into a single narrow checkbox.
đź“– Resources mentioned in this episode:
Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel. Inez's go-to reference for reframing desire and eroticism more broadly — also worth following through Perel's interviews, articles, and social media.
Desire: An Inclusive Guide to Navigating Libido Differences in Relationships by Dr. Lauren Fogel Mercy and Dr. Jennifer A. Vencil. A sex-positive guide for readers of all genders, orientations, and relationship structures — helps couples understand and manage differing libido levels without shame, with practical exercises for redefining intimacy.
This episode explores:
- Why treating a desire gap as something to manage, rather than fix, changes the entire conversation
- Why trying to make your partner (or yourself) different backfires, and how pressure is antithetical to desire
- How to take an honest relationship snapshot before troubleshooting libido specifically: friendship, life structure, depletion, and support
- When a desire gap is actually a physical or medical issue in disguise, and when it's time to bring in outside support
- The difference between libido and arousal, and why conflating them leads couples to the wrong conversation
- Esther Perel's idea that desire doesn't disappear during demanding seasons of life, it just relocates
- Why narrowly defining "sex" as penetration and orgasm makes couples feel farther apart, not closer
- What non-demand touch is, and how it rebuilds erotic connection without expectation attached
- The central paradox of desire: taking the pressure off is what makes it more likely to show up
Questions this episode answers:
- Is it normal for partners to have different levels of desire?
- What can we actually do when one partner wants sex more than the other?
- How do I stop feeling rejected, guilty, or ashamed about our libido gap?
- What's the difference between low libido and low arousal?
- Could our desire differences actually be a physical or medical issue?
- Why doesn't the usual "date night" or "spice it up" advice work for us?
- What is non-demand touch, and how do I bring more eroticism into the relationship without pressure?
Have your own question about desire, libido, or intimacy? You can submit your anonymous question at welcometobeingalive.com
Welcome to Being Alive is a podcast about the messy, beautiful, and occasionally heartbreaking world of relationships. Couples therapist and certified sex therapist Inez Cordoba, LICSW, CST has spent thousands of hours helping couples and now gets to be in conversation with you. Around here, we're making sense of love, one tangent at a time.
Follow us: Instagram | Facebook | Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music @welcometobeingalive on all platforms
Sponsored by the Northampton Center for Couples Therapy, where loving well is an art, and getting there is a science. Visit www.northamptoncouplestherapy.com to learn more.
And a big thank you to From the Woods for our theme song: Apple Bottom Boogaloo. Check out: www.fromthewoodsmusic.com
Creators and Guests
What is Welcome To Being Alive?
A podcast about the messy, beautiful, and occasionally heartbreaking world of relationships. I'm your host, Inez Cordoba, a couples therapist and certified sex therapist. I've spent thousands of hours helping couples and now I get to be in conversation with you. Here's how it works. You send in your anonymous relationship questions, and I'll give you earnest and compassionate insight that's grounded in psychotherapy. Each episode we'll wander through the stories you send in and together make meaning about what it really means to feel alive in your closest relationships.
Hi folks.
You're listening to
episode three, and
today's anonymous
question is about
navigating desire
differences, and this
is something I see
often in my practice.
So I'm excited to tease
apart this question
and offer resources and
different ways to think
about this question
and this dilemma that
so many couples face.
So go ahead and
take a listen.
Hi there.
You're listening to
Welcome to Being Alive,
a podcast about the
messy, beautiful,
and occasionally
heartbreaking world
of relationships.
I'm your host, Inez
Cordoba, a couples
therapist and certified
sex therapist.
I've spent thousands of
hours helping couples,
and now I get to be in
conversation with you.
Here's how it works.
You send in your
anonymous relationship
questions, and I'll
give you earnest and
compassionate insight
that's grounded
in psychotherapy.
Each episode, we'll
wander through the
stories you send in,
and together make
meaning about what
it really means to
feel alive in your
closest relationships.
So if you've ever
wondered why love
feels so complicated
or how to make it a
little less so, you're
in the right place.
Around here, we're
making sense of love
one tangent at a time.
Hi, this is
Inez Cordoba.
I'm a full-time
couples therapist in
Massachusetts and also a
certified sex therapist,
and I'm here to answer
anonymous questions
that have been sent in.
Today's question
is about desire,
which I find to be a
fascinating, complex,
and nuanced theme,
so I'm really excited
to talk about it.
It also feels just aptly
timed because I have
been, for the last year
now, putting together
a course for couples
trying to navigate
differences in desire.
So not only is this
a really important
and common topic, but
it's one I've actually
been thinking about
really specifically
and very deeply for
the last year, but
really throughout
my work as it's
such a common topic.
So I'm excited to try to
break it down a little
bit for you today, and
please send in more of
your questions related
to desire and desire
differences between
couples and partners.
There's so much we
could really try to
tease apart and make
meaning of together.
And today's question
reads, "How do
we deal with
differences in libido?
He is usually the one
who initiates sex, and
I'm often tired with
household chores and
raising the children.
By the end of the day,
all I wanna do is rest.
I'm not sure if I have
a low libido or if
I'm simply exhausted.
What strategies can
we use to manage this
difference?" And before
I get too carried away
deconstructing today's
relationship question,
let's try to add a
little bit of context.
I think that can
really influence the
lens through which we
see this dilemma of
desire differences.
And so I can gather
that they are probably
a heterosexual
couple, married.
Phase of life seems to
be raising young kids.
And in general, there
seems to be kind of
a heteronormative
gender roles at play.
She mentions she's
the one raising the
kids and doing the
household chores.
I don't know if that
means stay-at-home mom,
so we won't assume that.
And so we'll kinda
keep all of that in the
back of our minds as we
unpack this question.
But, you know, we can
imagine this in other
kinds of relationship
structures too.
Differences in libido
show up in all phases
of relationship.
But certainly raising
young children,
that's a place where
this comes up a lot.
So let's get into it.
What I love about this
question the most is
that last sentence.
"What strategies can
we use to manage this
difference?" That
is such a nuanced
and important way to
frame this, which is
it is a difference
to be managed.
It is like a paradox
that we have to manage
together as opposed
to entering into this
question or this,
like, plight or dilemma
from a place of, "How
can I make my partner
different?" You know,
"What can I do to make
them have the same
libido I have, which
is higher or lower?"
That is not the right
entry point 'cause
that, you know, that
alludes to a kind of
wish for control over
the other, that they be
different in some way.
If there's a wish that
they have more libido,
it can have a kind
of pressure or even a
smidge of coercion kind
of baked into that.
Or if it's a wish that
my partner has lower
libido, there can be
a sense of shaming
or judging the libido
your partner does have.
That can be such a
tricky place to begin
when couples come in
with this difference
and if the entry point
to it and the, the ask
behind it is, "What
can I do to make my
partner different?"
Or even if it's, "What
can I do to make myself
different?" There's a
kinda self-pressure,
and pressure is so
antithetical to desire
that it's really not
the place to begin.
The beginning has to
be, "What are we going
to do to manage this
difference?" Phrasing
it in that way takes the
pressure off, and what
happens when there's
less pressure is desire
is more likely to
emerge, and then people
find that ironically it
ends up bringing them
closer together, closer
to some place that they
would like to be in
terms of a shared or
if not similar libido.
There's this, like,
entry point that
they have of, "I
know how to meet you
there now," without
feelings of rejection
or shame or guilt or
coercion or pressure.
All the other things
that show up, all the
gunk that sort of can
come in and, and make
desire and libido even
harder to come by.
So anyhow, I really
value the way that this
question was phrased.
I think it's the best
starting point to have
this conversation,
particularly because in
a long-term committed
relationship, it is
inevitable that there
will be moments and
differences in libido.
Even if overall, by
and large, somehow
a couple has pretty
matched libidos, at
any given point, that
can change, right?
One person can get sick.
One person can
be in pain.
One person can get
distracted, can be
going through grief,
a loss of a parent,
a loss of a pet, a
change in job, travel.
And all of a sudden
they're not synced up,
you know, intimately,
and they're gonna
have to manage
that difference.
They're gonna have
to not lose hope or
assume that they're
incompatible or, you
know, question the
whole relationship
or feel guilty or
be ashamed or…
No.
No.
The question has to be,
"What strategy are we
gonna use to manage this
difference during this
time? We have different
needs right now." So
I really value that as
our starting point, and
if it wasn't starting
there, that's where
I would invite us to
begin, but here we are.
We're starting there.
So I wanna give you a
couple resources first.
That is usually how I
like to begin, so that
way if just right off
the bat you wanna put
something, you know,
in your wishlist or
a book that you wanna
download, uh, if you
wanna continue on this
conversation outside of
this podcast episode,
then you have that.
First, I always think
of Esther Perel when
it comes to this topic
because she is often
integrating topics of
desire and libido and
wanting and longing,
playfulness, eroticism
in all of her work.
So interviews that
she's doing, books she's
writing, articles she's
releasing, social media
posts she's making.
So immediately a
great resource.
You can go to YouTube,
you can go to social
media, you can
check out her books.
Mating in Captivity
would be a great book
to read on this topic.
Another one is a book
simply called Desire.
The tagline is, "An
inclusive guide to
navigating libido
differences in
relationships,"
and it's by Dr.
Lauren Fogel Mercy and
Dr. Jennifer A. Vencil.
I hope I've said
their names correctly.
But it's a sex
positive guide designed
for readers of all
genders and sexual
orientations and
relationship structures.
And it helps couples
understand and manage
different libido
levels without shame
and offering practical
exercises so you
can redefine how you
look at intimacy.
Dr. Lauren Fogel also
has great content
on social media.
I think it's very smart.
It's not clickbaity.
It's not ragebaity.
It's not
overgeneralized.
It's smart
educational content.
And she's certainly
talking about things
like desire and
eroticism as well as
other couples topics.
So I would invite
you to look there.
The other thing I'll say
quickly about resources
before we move on to
the question itself
is depending on what
people unpack as kind
of the root of their
desire difference.
Say it is about grief or
unspoken resentment or
conflict that's leading
to shutting down and
turning away from their
partner or overwhelm
from child-rearing or
chores, exhaustion.
Or maybe there's like
physical pain that
hasn't been addressed
since postpartum.
Whatever people might
start to discover,
"Oh, that is part of
what's at the root
of us not connecting
intimately," then there
would be a whole other
series of resources
that I would then
suggest to that couple.
This is just looking
at desire very broadly,
these two resources,
Esther Perel and Dr.
Lauren Fogel.
So as you explore what
is this telling me
about myself or our
relationship that this
difference exists.
Like one, yes,
differences are really
normal, but sometimes
they also have
something to tell us.
And if that becomes
something you want to
address, you would be
looking at whatever
those root causes are.
And that would open a
door of a whole other
layer of resources.
So that's how we're
gonna unpack this
question actually
So one of the first
things I like to
explore with a
couple when they're
coming in wanting
to talk about libido
differences and how
to manage it is really
actually first take
an overall assessment
of the relationship.
Like how is their
friendship doing?
How is their
communication doing?
What's the structure
of their lives?
How busy is it?
How much support
do they have?
How depleted are they?
You know, like what
is filling their cup?
Do they spend any time
outside or are they so
busy they're commuting
and they're running
from task to task with
the kids and they're so
stressed out about the
shape of their house
or even more so, are
their basic needs met?
What's going on for
them financially?
How are their jobs?
Like kind of trying to
take first an overall
picture because not
that libido can't exist
with a busy life and
sex and sexuality and
physical connection
can be actually a
really lovely escape
from life stressors.
It can be framed that
way and experienced
that way and also it
can absolutely get in
the way of connecting.
And so trying to
just take a snapshot
overall, like what's
going on for everyone.
Like if they have
kids, are they in the
immediate postpartum
phase or kind of
farther along?
How many kids
do they have?
Who's working?
When was the last
time they had any
time together?
Sometimes if a couple
has young kids,
they've been sleeping
in separate beds for
years just to manage
kind of how wild those
early years are if
you've got a couple
toddlers, for example.
So whatever those
circumstances are, it's
really important for me
to get a picture because
if I were to go in and
take, say, like, your
generic internet advice,
like, "Oh, go on a date
night," or, "Try some
lingerie." You know,
what else do people say?
Like, "Spice it up. Uh,
look for novelty. Take a
ceramic class together."
But if they're
struggling financially,
someone is depressed,
someone's about to start
a new job, they need to
move, they have a kid
who's sick, you know,
circumstances that make
it not possible to just
kinda do those things,
the, quote-unquote,
obvious things, then
you kinda have to
address first some
of the circumstances.
Again, you don't have to
solve for all of them.
It doesn't have to
be that, well, until
everything is really
aligned, then you
can focus on it.
But I think naming all
of that, getting a sense
of those might be some
of the things that are
getting in your way, and
how does your physical
relationship then become
a source of escape from
those stressors or a
way to fill your cup
or to feel more in your
body or to feel less
alone and remember that
you're not alone, that
you have this partner
in this world, and
that sometimes being,
like, snuggled in each
other's arms is kinda
the only thing you can
do as you ride out some
other life stressor.
Great.
That's the conversation
the couple can have.
But again, first sort
of addressing… Like,
getting a snapshot
of the circumstances.
If it comes to be
that they feel very
disconnected, there's
almost no friendship
there, they're hardly
talking, they only
speak in logistics to
one another, then it's
like, well, sex is
one way to reconnect,
but some couples may
find that reconnecting
first to, like, feeling
like a couple and not
just like roommates or
co-parents then sort
of paves the way to
feel like how they're
gonna manage those
differences in libido
is more obvious, right?
So after taking a
snapshot of the context
of their lives and also
just in general what
is the health of their
relationship, how close
are they feeling, how
much unspoken resentment
or frustration,
anger is lingering,
then it's more clear
where to begin.
I'm also just checking
at the beginning to
see if any of those
differences in libido
have to do with
something like physical,
say pain or medically
that could be going on.
So if what's
interrupting their
ability to connect is
something related to the
obvious one and kind of
in the conversation in
the zeitgeist right now
a lot is like menopause
or postpartum, but
could be something like
erectile dysfunction
or body image issues
or something that's
really rooted in the
body that actually
needs some outside
individual support.
Maybe somebody needs
to see a urologist
or a pelvic floor
therapist or change
their medications.
If their medication
is impacting their
libido, then you
can give a couple of
million strategies,
but until you address
the individual factors,
you're not gonna get
a lot of traction.
So I'm also looking
for those things
with a couple.
You know, what
else explains why
you're-- might be
struggling to connect?
And behind that question
is also exploring the
difference between
arousal and libido,
because libido is, like,
the desire, sort of urge
to want to be sexual.
Arousal is how
responsive is the body.
And it's important
to not use those
interchangeably, but
to use them accurately.
So somebody may have
libido, like I have
a desire to wanna
feel more erotic
and playfully and
sensually connected
with my body and with
my partner, but my
body's not responsive.
Nothing seems
to turn me on.
I don't feel that flush.
I just… Like,
nothing happens.
I'm struggling to
orgasm, let's say.
Again, like, that's
another example of as
you get to the bottom
of what is really going
on here, if it's not
an issue of difference
in libido so much as
there's an arousal
issue, that's a whole
different conversation
you're having, right?
If I'm not sleeping
very well, maybe
that's gonna impact
my arousal levels or
ability to get aroused.
If our sexual life
isn't very satisfying,
then really it's
a conversation
about perhaps more,
like, technique.
How do we have sex?
How do we touch
each other?
In what ways and
in what places?
Do I know that
about myself?
Have I taught
you what I like?
What if I don't know
that about myself?
What if I used to
know, but I have a
really different body
now, and so I haven't
spent the time to get
to know myself in this
different, newer body
for whatever reason?
It could be new or
different, right?
Postpartum is a
common example.
Or maybe, like,
following a cancer
diagnosis, right,
and, and maybe a
round of chemotherapy.
Your body just feels
different perhaps.
Like, there's so many
circumstances that might
require you to get to
know yourself again and
needing to do that in
order to then show your
partner this is what
would be satisfying now.
So there's this physical
and arousal lens when
we're thinking about
desire differences too
that we have to take in.
You're thinking about
lifestyle differences.
If those examples
of maybe you're
not sleeping in the
same room anymore.
Maybe one of you
snores or has the
overnight shift, so
you're just not even
in the same rhythm
of your day-to-day.
It's not clear when
you would even find
each other to connect.
If you really are so
exhausted from raising
children and you're in
that phase of life of
young kids and giving
a lot to your career,
then Yeah, then that's
gonna be where all your
playful and creative
energy is going, right?
Perhaps towards
your career, towards
your hobby, towards
a project, towards
raising your children.
This is something
Esther Perel says,
like, "There's plenty
of libido, it's just
going somewhere else."
And is that okay?
Can the relationship
tolerate that for six
months or a couple
years even, or not?
And I'm not saying
then that couple
decides not to have
sex, but that there's
this understanding
that there actually
is a lot of libido
and vibrancy and life
in the relationship.
It just exists in
a lot of different
forms right now, and
so that couple's sex
life for a period of
time might just look
like maintenance sex.
It might look like
something we schedule
and we make sure happens
'cause we know it's an
important through line
to keep us connected.
But maybe it's not the
hottest, most novel
sex we've ever had,
but we believe we'll
come back to that.
Just right now, what's
so important is this
other thing we're trying
to get off the ground.
So really inviting
the couple to look at
this difference from
so many different
angles and again, to
see it as something
that gets managed, not
a problem necessarily
that you solve.
Not to say do nothing
about it, but that
when it's seen as
a problem, I think
everybody starts to
get really discouraged
versus seeing it as a
really multifaceted,
nuanced conversation.
Then actually more
solutions, more
creative ways of how
we're gonna tackle this
together come to mind.
Another way to do
that is to reframe
what is sex.
That's one of my
favorite conversations
to kind of instigate
with a couple is like,
"Well, what are you
defining as, like, we're
not having sex anymore?
What, penetrative sex
and orgasm?" Okay,
but there are so
many other ways to be
intimate and to feel
desire and eroticism
and sensuality,
and when it becomes
really, really narrowly
defined, that's when
sex becomes experienced
as like a checkbox.
Did we do it
or did we not?
When was the last
time we did it?
That's so unsexy.
Yet another thing Esther
Perel often says or I've
heard her say is, "No
one has more sex talking
about the sex they're
not having," right?
So just kind of going,
thinking about it as,
"Oh, it was three times
this month." Okay, for
some couples that's a
lot, and for some that's
absolutely not enough.
But when we define it in
these quantities, it's
a really narrow and kind
of boring perspective
on sex and sexuality.
But if you broaden
it, right, what does
it mean to be playful
and to flirt and to
feel your touch and
to feel warmth and to
feel a flush in my body
when you're near me?
All of a sudden, there
is a thread of eroticism
in the relationship
that now can exist
no matter how busy
you are and no matter
how stressed you are.
It also makes it much
more likely and easier
to turn towards one
another and have more
sex together because
there is a thread
that sort of holds you
together versus this
kind of binary it's
there or it's not.
Are we doing it or
are we not doing it?
Is tonight a good
night or it's
not a good night?
And it's just on or off.
And that hot/cold I
think can be really hard
to switch in our minds
of I'm in life mode
with you, we're texting
about who's picking up
the kids and what should
we get for dinner and,
you know, don't forget
to text your mom back
about our plans this
weekend, and then all of
a sudden we're supposed
to pivot and just feel
sexy with one another?
No.
But if there is a
thread where in between
all of that there is
a playfulness and a
lingering kiss and,
and all of those things
exist without pressure.
They're not, "Oh, I, I
gave you this lingering
kiss because I'm hoping
you'll then do something
with me later." No,
they have no pressure
attached to them.
They just exist in and
of themselves Now you
have a relationship
that's much more
vibrant and flirty.
And that's
that oxymoron.
That's the paradox a
couple needs to figure
out how to manage is
how do we invite more
playfulness, eroticism,
aliveness, desire,
libido, arousal, but
without pressure?
Without the sense that
because I let you kiss
me in this lingering
way this morning, that
means we're having
sex tonight, right?
This like, if
this, then that.
Now all of a sudden,
I don't even want
you to kiss me for
this long time in the
morning because I don't
know if I'm gonna be
in the mood tonight.
And since I don't know
if I will be and I don't
wanna turn you down
and disappoint you, I'm
just gonna stop it all
before it even begins.
But now there's
nothing in our shared
coffer of aliveness.
Now there is no
lingering kiss or make
out or sweet caress.
And so that's when
it becomes super
important to have what
we would call in the
therapy realm, like
non-demand touch.
Touch for touch sake.
I snuggle you and it
is not sexual, but it
might be erotic, right?
Because the eroticism
is really just about
that sense of aliveness
between us that, ugh,
I feel more in my body
when you're near me.
That feeling.
That's that feeling
that people get early
on in relationships,
that honeymoon phase
of like, "I feel all
my senses so awake when
I'm around you. I feel
giddy and excited."
And so how to bring that
in, that my senses are
alive when I'm around
you without feeling
this pressure about sex.
And it's actually in
having more eroticism
and aliveness that
sex is more likely.
So that's the paradox.
When I take the
pressure off, it's
more likely to happen,
but I have to truly
take the pressure off.
Pressure off myself and
pressure off my partner.
Then from that space
we can meet each other
and if we have more
broadly defined what is
libido, arousal, desire,
eroticism, sensuality,
sexuality, sex itself.
Now we have this huge
buffet of options to
choose from in which
we are connected about.
And now you actually
don't feel that
different from me
because we have so many
ways in which we can
stay connected versus
what I see happen is
couples start to define
it very narrowly.
It's penetrative sex
and it ends with at
least one orgasm, and
usually it's the guy
and that's, that's
your heteronormative,
okay, done.
Yeah, if that's how
you're-- if that's all
that you're defining
as like how healthy
is our sex life, I
mean I mean, yeah.
Where do you go
from there, right?
Better to redefine
it and see there's
so many ways that you
feel like my sexual
partner, and it doesn't
just include that.
I could say so much
more about this subject,
but that's me answering
it from the frame that
this person wrote in.
So if you want to write
in a more detailed
question about a desire
difference that you've
experienced or are
experiencing, please do,
'cause I would love to
talk about this more.
I gave a bunch of kind
of random examples
and anecdotal answers
just to kinda give
a broad breadth of,
like, how does a
couple talk about this?
What would it look
like if they were
talking about this in
couples therapy with
their sex therapist?
And this was actually
a really aptly timed
question because I've
been thinking about this
question really deeply
for the last year.
I've been putting
together a couples
course, this 10-part
course where a
couple could together
ask these kinds of
questions to themselves.
Where is this
coming from?
What's the context
of our lives?
What's the health
of our relationship
and our friendship?
Do we know how we like
to flirt and play?
Do we know how to
talk about eroticism?
Can we more
broadly define it?
This is what I'm sort
of bringing to the
table 'cause I think
it's really valuable
for a couple to get
into this question,
and then to get into
it again and again and
again throughout their
long-term relationship.
So I'll go ahead and
leave that here for now.
I'm so excited to keep
working through these
anonymous questions
that are being
written in, and thank
you for listening.
This is Inez Cordova,
and you've been
listening to Welcome
to Being Alive.
Thank you for
listening to Welcome
to Being Alive.
I'm your host,
Inez Cordoba.
I hope today gave you
something to think about
or maybe even try out
in your own love life.
If you enjoyed this
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The show is brought
to you by Cordoba
Couples Therapy and
the Northhampton Center
for Couples Therapy.
And a big thank you
to From the Woods
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Apple Bottom Boogaloo.
Until next time,
remember, being alive
means loving, learning,
and sometimes just
surviving together.
Thanks, guys.