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Host Sean Frost is joined by experts in the manufacturing industry to discuss bringing big ideas to life. Join us every episode for a deep dive into manufacturing trends, processes, innovation, and how to be successful in the ever-changing world of manufacturing.
Ep08_RonHoule
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[00:00:00]
Sean Frost: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Inspiring Innovation. We're excited to have you here today and we encourage you to like and subscribe to the podcast. We are exploring manufacturing trends and we are excited to talk to people in supply chain and sourcing, buyers and different engineers who might be looking to launch a product into the world. So we are here today with Ron Huell, and he is the founder and president of [00:01:00] Pivot Step Consultants. we found him through Jen Fennell, our director of supply chain, and her involvement in ATA, the Advanced Textiles Association She's a board member, she's seen Ron present.
He's on the board. and he's been building relationships between the Army National Guard, Philips Healthcare, Northrop Grumman, and General Dynamics. That one's a tough one for me to say But he's been in legislative affairs at the Pentagon He served 24 years in active duty in the Army. And so we're really excited to have him on the podcast today.
He's the first guest that we've had outside of our internal executive team. So we're excited to, meet with Ron virtually here. Ron, are you in DC today Where do we find you?
Ron Houle: I'm at home and, in Metro DC. Army sent me here kicking and screaming a lot of years ago and here I find myself still here.
Sean Frost: [00:02:00] Great. we're excited to have you and, you have an impressive background. I don't think I did it justice in my intro here, but it spans the military and the industrial sector. Could you share some key highlights and experiences from your journey that have shaped your connection between the private and public sector?
Ron Houle: Yeah, sure. Thank you. so I've been blessed with, a lot of terrific opportunities, over the years. I had a a great and rewarding career with the Army over 24 years, about 24 and a half years, give or take. took me all over the world and deployments and... And such, and,my last assignment, was the one that brought me here, as I said, kicking and screaming a bit,to work in the Pentagon for three years, which was, uh, some very challenging work, but, very, very rewarding.
Ron Houle: that job had to do with government relations and [00:03:00] legislative liaisons, That's where I learned a whole lot about how defense budgets are put together. I learned a lot about defense economics and everything like that. And then my job was to take the Army budget across the river, to Congress and defend the budget to Congress.
So in that environment, I learned legislative process, works and all,and learned a lot there. Then, when I transitioned out of the Army, I spent three years at the National Headquarters of the American Red Cross doing legislative, work for them. And then I went into the private sector. That would have been, 20 years ago now.
and it was with, a company that was about to explode in its growth. providing, shelters, into DOD, and that's what, one degree removed [00:04:00] is what then got me involved into the industrial textile, marketplace in a big way. And we'll probably get into some more details of that, later as we proceed here into the podcast.
that's how that came about. I would want to add, because it's relevant to me and how I think and what I do, for the industry. I was born and raised in Manchester, New Hampshire back in the day, it was a textile, hub. back in the days when New England was, big into textiles. and my mom and dad, who never went to high school, were hourly wage earners in the textile mills there.
My dad was a weaver. For 40 years, my mom was a stitcher. She worked piecemeal back in the days when it was legal to do that, and so I have it in [00:05:00] my DNA to be close to fabrics and textiles. So,whenever I visit any kind of a plant, whether it's a cut and sew, whether it's a weaving, I see my mom and dad out there.
it's a real strong connection for me.
Sean Frost: That's amazing. thank you for sharing that and,we'd love to have you out to a polo facility,and, walk and see what our associates are working on sometime.
Ron Houle: That's a deal.
Sean Frost: great.
Ron Houle: on.
Sean Frost: Yeah. Yeah. They, we don't have a facility in New England. but
Ron Houle: Nobody does it anymore.
Sean Frost: I know, it's sad, but that was such a beacon of industry,and a big part of American history and I appreciate you sharing that personal, connection. Working in both defense and private industry. How have you seen these intersect? What are some unique challenges that you've seen reoccur and some opportunities? [00:06:00] especially in the context of developing and deploying new technologies or,anything that might be prevalent to our audience and just for your context, too, we have a lot of our customers that we make different components of their final package of something that will be going to, the government and to the military and the armed services.
Ron Houle: I think what I'd say, there are lots of challenges and lots of opportunities. I guess I would pick one in each of those two categories as I see it. The biggest, most obvious challenge is the complexity of defense procurement. having been immersed in it for, 25, 27 years, there are days when I still have to scratch my head on
something. In many ways, there's nothing easy about that [00:07:00] world. though I will say there are some spaces within defense procurement where senior leadership's been trying to, introduce some reforms. And streamline some processes. Don't know if we'll have time to get into that.
I could explain one or two of those. but in the main,it's complex, it's got lots of layers, and there are a lot of points of intersection that are just not obvious to most folks. The opportunity, the upside of all that is... if a company can find its way, then what you can have with the potential there is, a longer term contract that provides some predictability.
and for the most part that the government's good and paying its bills. the revenue [00:08:00] stream for government business can, is, can be reliable and dependable for the most part and,again, can be very predictable That's certainly, a big advantage. then, related to that, I said I would give one for each.
Let me give a second one for the opportunity is, companies can be a part of,leading some innovations. I know defense procurement can be accused of being stodgy and not be very innovative because it's so cumbersome. But it also, it can be, and there are examples of that in the textile industry.
So your company, anybody's company, could be, on a leading edge of a new idea that, may eventually find its way into the commercial sector. [00:09:00] So if a company's already been, breaking through, whether it's manufacturing processes, the engineering of a textile, and,there then,comes upon some obvious commercial applications in that company as a competitive advantage in being in there.
Do
Sean Frost: you mind if we expand on that a little bit in terms of... when I'm new to this industry and when we basically, we'll bid on something that's gone out for bid and I think there are opportunities sometimes to enhance the product, make it cheaper, make it more practical, even when, in terms of shelf life of certain raw materials and things like that
How would you recommend who are the right people to go to, to even basically approach some innovative changes?[00:10:00]
Ron Houle: Well, let me first say,when any company sees the bid, let's call it just the generic bid,there's often, that proclivity, if you will, that if you have a better idea, that you want to submit the better idea. and that's not always the best approach
It may well be, and every one of, every solicitation is different, but it, it may well be that what you first need to do is just hit the requirement what's being asked for. Especially if it happens to be one of those solicitations that's, specific in what the customer wants.
And,save the enthusiasm, for the bells and whistles later, perhaps once you've won the contract and you can introduce, some engineering change proposals, we call them,to make the widget better but the offering price is always, going to [00:11:00] be a key factor. So if you're introducing innovations that are, that haven't been asked for, and that bumps up your price, then
you might be putting yourself at a disadvantage, even while some solicitations will emphasize value over price. Value meaning that they may not pick, the least expensive submission. I've seen solicitations, where the most expensive, proposal was submitted and selected. Because it was a better value proposition over the life cycle cost of the item, maintenance or other criteria.
Now, if a company has a great idea in the fabric world, most of those are, handled out of, a command called in [00:12:00] DEFCON, the United States Army Development Command, out of the Soldier Support Center. A place called Natick, Massachusetts. For those of us who have been around a long time, we just say Natick, and we kind of, we know what that means.
It tends to mean a lot of things. But, Natick does a, that particular R& D facility does a lot of interesting work for soldier support, of which, in the textile fabrics world is a major player. And that's because not only though they are technically an Army component, much of their work, they are the executive agents for all of the Department of Defense.
For example, their division that can research, design, and develop parachutes, whether they're,[00:13:00] for, personnel, or whether they're the giant cargo parachutes, we're dropping logistics, sometimes even vehicles. they do that for all of the Department of Defense All services will use whatever parachutes have been developed by Natick.
Same goes, for some, not all of... apparel, items, we know services each have their own requirements, but there, there are some basics that are the same, so those would be a couple of examples of how they're the executive agents for all of Department of Defense. yeah, NATIC would be the, really the key command
to get,
Sean Frost: Yeah, thanks for sharing that and, if you don't mind touching back on the reforms that you had mentioned and some [00:14:00] streamlining of the processes that are being worked through, I know that the world's changed and we talk about it in some way, shape, or form in almost every podcast in the last three years more than ever.
And I feel like, industry and defense have been talking about how do we adapt to the new environment? And it sounds like there are some reforms that you had mentioned that might be, interesting for people to learn more about.
Ron Houle: yeah, sure. let me give you, let me give you two A lot of the, uh, major commands out there, across all the services have, over the, these last few years, experimented with their own notion of a Shark Tank, where they'll, have a broad announcement out there, they'll have, an application process, if you will, tell us about [00:15:00] your idea, give us the concepts, and then you get invited, before a panel and you have, some limited amount of time
to present your idea and, at the end of the day or at the end of two days, you're offered a contract, which is a, that's a pretty cool idea.
Sean Frost: Yeah.
Ron Houle: Now, to be sure, they're not going to have that kind of solicitation for the next jet fighter, but they'll have it on, on smaller scales and some would be related to this industry because there are projects that can be limited in their scope, or at least in their, initial development phase
that are in the fabrics and textile world, whether it be, an item for extreme climates, maybe it's an item for medical applications, maybe it's an [00:16:00] item, where they want to, experiment with some wearable technology, that's, that's a great interest to DOD these days. that's one example.
Another example is something, the technical term is, Other Transaction Authority. Everything in DoD has to have initials or an acronym. that's called the OTA. I'll refer to it as the OTA. And I'vehad a couple of clients have some great success. With an OTA and the way that process worked was, in fact, I'll give you an example with Natick,
they published, an OTA for command post system, very broad in its, description. Didn't have a lot of specific requirements, interested vendors had some freedom to introduce new ideas. And new [00:17:00] innovations. And, a client, had a great idea, had a great innovation, submitted that, the initial announcement was published.
initial submissions were due within 60 days, I believe it was. Could have been 90. Submissions were made about, then about 90 days, no, 60 days after that, there was a further selection of Where they, of all the submissions taken in, they took it down to two. Asked for a different level of detail, something a little more specific for cost and technology.
that was then turned around and within about, it was about eight months, this company had themselves a 2 million research and development contract, for deliverable within the next 12 months. [00:18:00] So that's, in our world, in defense procurement, that's moving at light speed,
Sean Frost: Yeah.
Ron Houle: right? And, it, and then that just,further, developed, if you will.
The project just kept going on and now they're, this company's on the edge of having a substantial program of record, for this item that didn't go through,A typical solicitation procurement, which can take anywhere of upwards of three years,
Sean Frost: then the contract is let, then item prototypes, et cetera.
Ron Houle: And then six years later, you've got your first item. Eight years later, the force is deployed, and has this in hand. By then, everything is nearly obsolete. That's what we're trying to prevent with these two types of approaches, their own version of the Shark Tank [00:19:00] and what I've just described as an OTA.
Sean Frost: Yeah, those are really great processes and innovation in their own and should help with the, the obsolescence of, goods by the time they're deployed in the field.
Ron Houle: Yeah.
Sean Frost: Definitely, appreciate you sharing those updates with us and you've been involved with some billing relationships with key players.
some big names we mentioned in the intro, like between the Army National Guard, Phillips Healthcare, and General Dynamics. What strategies did you find most effective when establishing and nurturing these partnerships? from our perspective. Deliverables are definitely, key, when, whenever we're working through, we're fulfilling a contract and communication, those types of things, but what did you see, in part of the success that you had in, in developing those partnerships,
Ron Houle: what I would say is [00:20:00] first go with a blanket statement that I am always a very strong proponent of collaboration and sometimes, it's even within your own industry with somebody who on the face of it, might seem like a competitor. and I've,seen that and certainly the,large defense contractors all do it.
there isn't a major item of technology out there in the Department of Defense where every component is sole sourced by whoever's name is on the product. they'll have all manner of supply chain input from their competitors and vice versa. So it, it happens all day, every day. I think the textile industry could learn from that.
I understand the parallels aren't [00:21:00] precisely the same. On the one hand, but on the other hand, I think the room for collaboration in the textile industry, is such that it's greater than zero. for Polo Custom and for anybody else out there, I always strongly recommend scan if there's a direction the company wants to take, if there's a technology that, to be investigated, If there's a product to be developed, I understand, proprietary information and everything like that.
I, I got that. But that ought not preclude some creative team building that helps everybody. And I've seen it time and time again. I was just at the largest defense show in the country. It's [00:22:00] called, AUSA. We just had that here in, in Washington two weeks ago, I guess it was. and, this same company that went through this OTA that I described, they reached out to some partnerships and they had a product in their own booth, but they had that same product being exhibited by two other companies in two other booths because, of the mutual applications that could be seen both ways.
you had one product being displayed three different places. That, that's some powerful marketing there that you just can't put a dollar value on. somebody walking around, looking for an item that's like this. my gosh, didn't I just see that in the other aisle down the way here.
Oh, look, there it is again. And there it is again. there's,it makes a powerful statement to, to do that. [00:23:00] So you, in, you look for other companies that have the same attitude as Polo that you want to do something new and different. and, very important, it has the spirit, the innovative spirit to do it, meaning that they're not only going to talk the talk, but they can turn things around, decision cycles are short, you can get to a yes, you can get to a no within a couple of phone calls, and a project keeps moving, Not trying to be negative here, but very often in my experience over these decades, the bigger the company, the more stodgy they are.
And the slower they are to move. somebody like Polo Custom that's got great ideas, has got great [00:24:00] people, we can fail quickly, learn from that, and move on. Being able to fail quickly is a great attribute for a company. Fail quickly, fail often, and by golly, you're going to find your way there before a whole lot of other competitors who are not even trying, right?
Sean Frost: even in some government contracts, they're building in some ability to fail early, fail off, fail often, and then come out the other end. Did that answer the question? It was a kind of, I get excited about that particular topic. Oh man, that was great. I, and I don't know if you noticed me smirking several times throughout your answers, but it just brought up, experiences that I've been through already. and I'm an endurance athlete, so I'm a masochist by nature, which kind of makes it me a good fit [00:25:00] to work within this industry sometimes because we were a friend of mine who, They are actually a supplier to us that then became a competitor to us because they started doing things prime, but then have become a partner with us on some contracts.
it's just like, Hey, we can be any one of these three things at different moments. And I've actually heard, our executive. team, used the term competimate, recently, and I thought that is so fitting. Yeah. So I was, laughing and nodding quite a bit during that response. So I appreciate you sharing that with us.
And I think that's really good. And it makes me think a little differently about. Some of our competitors too. I love that example of, one product being shared in three different booths and, and AUSA is a one, one heck of a trade show. I was very, uh, moved emotionally by the opening [00:26:00] ceremonies, not
This year, but the year before, and, was very impressed.
Ron Houle: Yeah. If you're not moved by some of that, you don't have a pulse is what I say.
Sean Frost: Agreed.
Ron Houle: I would also say the other piece around, collaborating, realities change in the marketplace. what's true today in terms of, collaborator, competitor.
might not be true tomorrow. having the attitude that you just described is an important one to have and more companies need to have it, quite honestly. it's very healthy outlook for a company.
Sean Frost: yeah. And, we're seeing that in other industries that we serve as well. And,we end up being better together when we do partner and coordinate and work together to fulfill our customers, deliverables. now can you provide an overview of your experience, with military contracting in the [00:27:00] defense industry?
With you doing what you did with the Pentagon and the economics and all of that, was that, kind of your first, delve into that field, or
Ron Houle: into industry
I think I know where you're going with that. we'll back up a bit on, my experience base that's, as I said, I was, blessed with a lot of, different, I would say different non traditional opportunities in the Army,, civilian graduate school, education opportunities,All manner of, of great things.
One of, one of those was a fellowship opportunity. When I was a younger officer, I was selected for a congressional fellowship. So I spent a year, and that program is, still exists, for all services. Spent a year on Capitol Hill, on the personal staff of a United States Senator. Now, [00:28:00] that was my first immersion into a way, way different world.
yeah, I, yeah, I didn't know if Congress had one S or two at the end of it when I went up there. and in the course of a year, learned so much about the legislative process. Again, warts and all. but I learned it. learned it firsthand and... That kind of put a, I got bit by that bug, so to speak.
it was very stimulating for me. It was very, it was exciting. It was,it was just a whole different world. So I did that for a year, then went back into the operational army. drew upon those experiences to a degree. But was really focused on being an army officer, but it was that experience, that was in my file that [00:29:00] had the army, draw me back in and to that particular position in the Pentagon, which was legislative affairs and legislative liaison based on my having that year's worth of experience.
there wasn't as much of a effort for me to onboard or spin up some of the basics. and, but what I did have to do, in that position was get way more immersed in the complexities and the vagaries of, How an Army budget is put together. That, being around that is not for the meek and the mild.
Sean Frost: that, that's some, that's some demanding work. And,that's gotta be one of the biggest budgets on the planet.
Ron Houle: Well, it's certainly the, it's certainly the largest defense budget on a planet by, you can't go to the next [00:30:00] 10 and add them all together and get ours. there, let's just say there are a lot of inputs to that. now, and even once you do that, imagine yourself with. Your board of directors is 535 people.
You, you've got 435 in a house. You got a hundred in a Senate. So that's your board of directors. Seriously.
Sean Frost: I've never looked at it that way.
Ron Houle: Yeah. So it, regardless of what the, what your program is, regardless of what the budget, there are thousands of budget lines in the defense budget. Every one of them has a constituency. So the Army budget is on this bus.
With 535 passengers, every one of them has a steering wheel, and every one of them has a brake. that's the way you need to think about,[00:31:00] the challenges of putting something out there. even with Polo Custom,if it's a, if it's If it's a plate carrier, if it's a piece of gear of any kind, whatever it is, I'm telling you, one of those 535 has an interest in it, and they have a brake, and they have a steering wheel,that, that makes for an interesting day on, on any day, so that, having the broad appreciation for that,is good for, was great for me,and most good companies, understand that, and they understand that you can kick against the goads, as it were, or you can just accept that, this is the reality and we've got, it's a world we need to figure out how we're going to work within it, because you're not going to work around it.
I'm telling you, I'm telling you that. [00:32:00] That's not going to happen. yeah. Answer to the board of directors.
Sean Frost: it's too big to work around and that board of directors is, massive.
Ron Houle: It is. It
Sean Frost: I hope that answered
oh my gosh, fascinating, Ron, I appreciate you sharing that with us. Ron, given your extensive experience, how do you see the current geopolitical landscape impacting trade, especially in the context of China and Taiwan and Russia and Ukraine?
Ron Houle: that's a huge... Yeah, that's a huge question. and I know that's, it's one that,you probably want to have some focus to, the textile and fabric industry. let me see if, let's see if I can do that.
let's take, let's take Ukraine for an example. when that came on the scene, there was a sizable surge. That's, [00:33:00] I'm sorry, that's redundant. There was a surge in, in a need for uniforms, protective gear, all items of, of how you outfit a soldier. To a certain degree, some command post systems or soft wall shelters,there was a surge and there were elements within our industry who were being asked to support, provide product, that would go into that surge.
I don't expect. I don't expect that to, to ease up any time soon. with respect to Taiwan and China, that, so Ukraine is a here and now. We, China Taiwan is more speculative, actually very [00:34:00] speculative. And in this town, everybody has an opinion on... What that looks like and where that could go.
I certainly,might, I would have my own, but I think for,
let me say this. Let me try and put it this way. I think for any healthy company, the management and executive level employees ought to have A fairly good grasp of the geopolitical scene around them. if I express my own opinion about China Taiwan, or Russia Ukraine, or even what we've now had since October 7th, the Israeli Palestinian [00:35:00] conflict coming, coming on fire, that we ought to, the management and the executives...
ought to have a better than simple layman's grasp of what that's about because A, it makes them a better citizen, but B, it makes them a better manager of their company
Sean Frost: because he or she can then anticipate how that may affect either their business directly, maybe it's one degree removed their industry, maybe it's another degree removed by maybe one of their collaborators,
but it's important to know, and that's why I tend to talk about those kinds of ideas At ATA events, whether it's an Outlook conference or the ATA Expo, [00:36:00] I tend to talk about these things because we all get busy, you all get busy,
and you don't necessarily, you have a hard time finding the time to, to absorb all of this, and I'm certainly not advocating that anybody and everybody become some sort of experts, if you will,
And so far as it can be, but to be a little more aware than the average bear out there is what I ask my clients to be.
right,
Ron Houle: they're just better executives for it. it would be true there and pull a custom for, and, you know, talk about it, have conversations,don't avoid it. And sometimes, we're just so close to the here and now in our company, that we look up and suddenly, it seems, [00:37:00] something's changed dramatically and it may have effect.
In our marketplace and, we may have to catch up a little.
Sean Frost: that's great advice. And you remind me of my economics professor from my MBA, because the way that you're speaking to it is, as executives, as managers, we have to make decisions about. what we're doing with the, within the landscape. And I know, Jen takes quite a bit away from the presentations at ATA that you've provided.
And I'm not sure if she gleaned, this information from you or from other sources similar to you, but, I think she mentioned with Ukraine that there was a large amount of chlorine produced there that, was Inputs for a lot of our other raw materials, and there's just some of those domino effects that these, conflicts basically, topple within the industry.
And I think about, how much raw [00:38:00] materials are made in China. And if a conflict, were to arise, are we prepared,
Well, that's a great segue so,I didn't touch on that one. Ukraine was a producer of all manner of raw materials that a lot of people didn't think about, before all this. And so when I was talking about having a, an awareness. of these flashpoints, sourcing wasn't the least of it,I was talking about it more as a, if it becomes a market opportunity, but, by way of sourcing, I don't think I need to tell anybody on this podcast the lessons we learned in the last three and a half years, give or take, and we learned them the hard way, the U. S. government has taken that on, I know DOD has, In a very big way, in terms of, sourcing and,having a much,[00:39:00] more direct microscope, if you will, or, or at least a telescope,on where raw materials are coming from and our dependence on China for the same. It's certainly made our work in protecting, defending, and perhaps even expanding the Berry Amendment, it's made that work certainly a lot easier.
Ron Houle: it wasn't all that long ago where I was personally spending a lot of time and energy, parading and skulking around the halls of our Congress defending Berry. And there were some antibodies to that particular piece of legislation. Folks wanted to chip away at that. We don't have to do that anymore, thank goodness.
That's probably a good example or a good indicator of how things have turned around. And, how... an enterprise like DoD [00:40:00] would,even want to replicate something like a berry to other items,other than fabrics. Sourcing is, yeah, is certainly a dominant issue for our industry.
I am unabashedly, strong pro Berry, pro Be American, Buy American, darn it. as I, I watched my parents, that's part of what I learned from growing up and watching Manchester dry up because of that, that attitude, that spirit. And you know what? if it requires legislation and protection to level the playing field, then by golly, let's have that conversation. it's fair trade, not free trade. And if there are things that need to be said and done to make things fair, then let's say and do it. [00:41:00] That's... Yeah, that's probably a strong way to say it, but that's where I am, and I think that's where the industry ought to be.
Sean Frost: Absolutely.
Ron Houle: even, I'll add, ATA is very, say they're very gifted in that they've been able to walk that, fine line.
It's not as obvious in the new brand anymore in ATA, Advanced Textile Association, but in the one we just gave up, Industrial Fabrics Association, the last I was international. that hasn't changed. There are still, there's still a significant international component.
within the membership of ATA. So you might want to think,is it, do we have a conflict of interest here and we don't, the organization has done a, exceptional, effort. And [00:42:00] being able to treat the two, differently without harming either one,and the international members are,aware of what it is we do for the Berry and which, you know specifically affects the market
it's somewhat narrow, perhaps, but it's one that ATA supports wholeheartedly,and, yeah, just without, without reservation. And I've always been appreciative of how they, as the umbrella organization has, treated domestic sourcing and the protection thereof through Berry in anyway they have.
Sean Frost: Yeah, no, I think that's outstanding and I appreciate what you've done walking the halls and really protecting Barry for a [00:43:00] number of years. I'm glad to hear the pressure's eased off.
Ron Houle: Yeah, thanks.
Sean Frost: of love, I can tell you.
Absolutely. there's, I think this is another, labor of love initiative for you, which is your affiliation with the Gettysburg Leadership Experience, which draws leadership lessons from, the most significant battle in American history.
So can you share some insights into lessons, that you glean from this experience from the historical leadership that took place from Civil War generals and how that can be applied to contemporary business, challenges.
Ron Houle: Yeah, happy to do so.let me, back it up a couple of layers, to explain a little bit where that came from. in our conversations, with the ATA board about, we're always talking about what is it that we as an association can help provide our members. [00:44:00] That they either don't have the time or the resources, to necessarily do for themselves, but is a need, nevertheless.
An obvious broad topic of conversation in these last four or five years has been workforce recruitment. And workforce retention. So those, that's the big idea, if you will. What are some things that we can do? We've kicked around a whole range and you've seen,the podcasts and the experts and folks contributing some best practices and some great ideas.
And those have been valuable. One of my passions, for me,and I think this is, a byproduct of my 24 plus years is leader development. all of the services, but I'll speak to the Army in particular because that's what I know [00:45:00] best, are very committed to lifelong learning and leader development.
And it's just part of, it's endemic within. Any soldier's career that there are schools and there are leadership training opportunities that we are all going to be a part of that are tailored to where we might be in our career. That we're going to go through, and we're a better institution for it.
the thought being that's, it's no less true in industry that leader development ought to be a part of workforce retention. so it's, I'm working my way down through,a funnel. You recruit and now you have to [00:46:00] retain. Here's how you retain. And as you're doing so, grooming for other levels of responsibility. So we came up with, the innovation of starting what we're going to call the ATA leadership academy. And what this academy is, it's going to be a living, breathing, effort, and right now it has two components. One is, a special partnership with a group called the Center for Creative Leadership. They're a, nationally renowned, leader development institution offers a whole wide range of programs
Theirs is a more classic,coaching, classroom, the academic principles of what we're trying to do here. and they're, they're very good at it. They're very good at what they do. They've been around for a [00:47:00] very long time, and the Army's been a client of theirs many times over.
When you talk about Gettysburg, now you're talking about, another way of introducing leader development in what we call something that's experiential. That is, we're going to take you through an experience. Not, and that's different from what CCL is doing. Not that any one is better than the other, but when you have them both, you've got a very strong approach.
So an experiential approach, in the Army we do what we call terrain walks. And that's a kind of a, the military term for a terrain walk is you study a particular battle. More importantly, you study the [00:48:00] personalities. And the leaders of said battle, and you can do that a bunch of different ways, you can do it through books, you can do it through movies, you can do it a bunch of different ways, and then you go to the ground, and you visit the ground, and you walk the ground So when we were developing this idea, I thought what better way to do it than take it on with Gettysburg for just a whole lot of reasons.
I won't go into them all here, but we selected Gettysburg. So in doing so, we found a vendor that leads these kind of tours. being led by a, a retired Army officer who's also a Ph. D. in history and taught history at West Point. So you got that going on. we had some homework to read before we went.
There [00:49:00] was a movie we had to watch before we went, and for those of us who were going for extra credit, there was a book to read before we went. So we did all that. So we were all level set going into Gettysburg, and then for the next two and a half days... We walked the ground. it was freezing cold the days we were there, which is very different from the battle itself, which was over the 4th of July, if you will, 2 to 4 July.
It was extremely hot,with some of the hotter recorded temperatures, not recorded because they didn't do that at the time, but in the historical documents, All with ill fitting boots or no boots and woolen uniforms and everything like that, but you nevertheless get an appreciation for how that could have been, marching hundreds of miles, over a matter of days and now being launched into a pitch,[00:50:00]
a pitched battle, so you know, walking, pickets, charge, doing all these, and immersing yourself, what are these leaders thinking about, blue, gray, at what level, what was work, why didn't this work, why did this work, and that's immediately transferable to the office place,I'll give you one strong takeaway,It's in the course of all of our conversations and walking the ground, one of the lessons we learned was that Lee, General Lee, his vision, his idea of how this battle was to take place was not effectively communicated
Sean Frost: to those fighting on the ground, two levels below it. Now, we [00:51:00] call that, in that environment, we call that commander's intent. if you're, we had CEOs for the most part, so if you as a CEO, what is your vision, what is it that, that you see? For your company in a particular piece of your business, how do you see it and how are you communicating that two levels beneath you?
Ron Houle: And could I go to one of those, one your employees, two levels below you, ask that question and have them answer it in such a way that you're going to nod your head north and south, say, yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The chances of that happening for most companies is pretty slim. I would tell you, because it's hard to do and it requires work and it has to be deliberate and if you don't do it right, you can have catastrophic consequences.
So that was,
Sean Frost: just one of the [00:52:00] many takeaways we had, from going to a place like Gettysburg. we're gonna be, expanding that, we're gonna be marketing that very aggressively. promoting to leaders that yeah, you have to spend a little bit of money and you have to do without your leaders for two and a half days, but they'll come away so much better for it and be able to draw lessons from it that are immediately transferable to wherever it is they're sitting.
Ron Houle: I can promise that. I can absolutely promise that walking pickets charge has direct relevance to the staff meeting you're going to have next week.
Sean Frost: That's,just the story that you told had me running through scenarios, of different meetings coming up and it's sounds like a incredible experience [00:53:00] and directly transferable, as you said. so where could people go to learn more? we'll put a link in our show notes.
Yeah. first of all, if folks are going to ATA, they can come to the, hub. The ATA's got its big hub there all the time. there'll be folks there that, would be ready to answer that question. If you want to go to Gettysburg, because we're going to be, we're going to be putting some other cohorts.
Ron Houle: What we're trying to do there is get about 12 participants, give or take. We think that's a good number. And then there's one facilitator from the provider. that's just a, that's a magic number. It allows for good conversation. it's enough for a good conversation. It's not too much. For folks to, you can't hide. I don't want anybody to go to Gettysburg or an experiential,event like that and be able to hide You need to participate, you need to be out there and,[00:54:00] yeah, and experience it and have those exchanges about what this means to you and Polo, and I know you, whoever goes, they'll come up with, just like you thought, yep, there's an example, yep, I can see that, I can see that, I can see that,
Sean Frost: you had my mind turning and that sounds absolutely incredible and worth whatever money is being charged for it. and yeah, I appreciate your effort in helping the industry in that way as well. and Ron, this was an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much for your. service to our country and really our service to our industry, taking on the work that you have, within the halls of Congress and the Senate and the daunting task of budgeting for our defense budget. I can't even begin to fathom,just knowing budgeting for non profit boards I've been on, for companies I've worked for, [00:55:00] I cannot think of a, how that would go with a 435 person board of directors.
again, thank you so much and incredibly valuable, conversation for our audience. and we really appreciate everything that you've done for our country and our industry so thanks for your time today, Ron.
Ron Houle: thank you everyone for tuning in to another episode of Inspiring Innovation. Please comment with, guests you'd like to have on the show, what you learned from Ron, what you want to hear more about. maybe we can get them back here for round two someday. I could have talked for, for many more hours with Ron and really appreciated, all the insights that he shared with us today.
Sean Frost: So thank you for tuning in. we release an episode the second Tuesday of every month, and we appreciate you listening to the podcast. [00:56:00]