Rolling with the Punches: MMA Fights and Fourball Heights

How does a professional MMA fighter go from combat to the course and find meaning in amateur golf? 

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co-host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with Caleb Bowman (former MMA fighter & Chief Sales Officer at Solid Property Investments) to explore the more profound parallels between combat sports, competitive golf, mental discipline, and the selfless pursuit of purpose—on and off the course.

The conversation dives into:

• Matt & Kevin’s long-awaited debut at the USGA Four-Ball Qualifier
• Caleb’s journey from the MMA cage to the golf course
• How adrenaline, fear, and mental discipline shape performance
• The power of selflessness, service, and mission work
• Golf as a mirror for life’s challenges and personal growth
• Why minimizing mistakes—on the course and in life—creates breakthroughs
• The birdie game, snacks as strategy, and the psychology of partnership play

Connect with our guest

🔨 Caleb Bowman — Solid Property Investments (Roofing & Construction, GA): https://www.solidpropertyga.com

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction
02:32 The Journey to the USGA Four-Ball
09:47 Meeting Caleb Bowman
12:09 The Social Side of Golf
14:07 Competition & the Fighter’s Mindset
17:14 Where Four-Ball Came From
20:27 Why Four-Ball Is So Popular
22:34 Team Dynamics & Trust
26:07 The Importance of Snacks
30:38 Inside the Birdie Game
35:07 Adrenaline in Golf vs MMA
41:57 Selflessness & Mission Work
55:28 Golf’s Hardest Life Lessons
58:32 Community & Connection
59:30 Major Golf Event Moments
01:05:21 From Beginner to Plus-Two
01:12:04 Mental Strategies for Improvement

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community, and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses, and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in-depth discussions on all things golf.

Creators and Guests

Host

Matt Considine

Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.

Host

The Professor

NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.

What is The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf?

A golf podcast about life. Weekly stories from the culture, community, and characters shaping the game today. The Bag Drop blends honest authenticity with expert insights for passionate golfers at every level. Produced by NewClub and supported by its members, each episode welcomes guests from clubs, courses, and the lesser-known corners of the golf world for thoughtful discussions on all things golf and life.

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the first of its kind golf society in the United States; blending the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability more typical of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, plus signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is on a mission to revolutionize golf membership, making the game more meaningful for all those who love it.

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Matt Considine (00:01.592)
Welcome to the Bag Drop, Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Considine, the founder of New Club Golf Society here with our co-host, the professor, Dr. Kevin Moore. Solantia, good morning, sir, how are you?

The Professor (00:17.415)
Hanging in there, we are, we are winding down football season and as much as I love football season, I'm ready for it to be over. It's just always, it's always so exhausting. It's like you're running that, you know, whatever long race you do and you see the finish line, but you just like, man, I'm tired. Do I, can I push through? Uh, it's been a long one.

Matt Considine (00:34.956)
Same said as a Georgia football fan. It's never good enough. They're never there. Now they're just wishing it's over. You don't want to endure a very good football team that nobody's ever happy about.

The Professor (00:48.903)
Hey, we're not allowed to be happy, but no, it's been, gosh, I, before the episode, I looked 11 of the last 14 weekends either have been on the road for work, at an away game or hosting friends in town for a game. It's like, man, it's just use could just use a weekend to ourselves.

Matt Considine (01:01.558)
Yeah, you've been.

Matt Considine (01:06.25)
Yeah, a lot of our listeners probably assume when you're not on the show, you're just, you know, nose deep in research papers and helping your students, you know, educate our youth in America. a lot of times I think you're just stocking the fridge, getting ready for your tailgate, you know, buying different assortment of sausages at the grocery store. that?

The Professor (01:27.349)
and we definitely did that this past past weekend with the Texas game. Obviously we'll get into the four ball qualifier. I'll just go and apologize to you. got two apologies. Apologize to you for the the pre four ball festivities. And maybe that's why my game wasn't the sharpest on Monday. Also need to say Georgia amazing place to watch game. Got apologize for a couple of Texas friends. They got called a derogatory term post game. Come on Georgia fans. Let's be a little better. You know,

Say whatever you want during the game, but once the game's over, you know, be prideful when your winter loss. Apologies to, to some Texas fans that were, you know, pushing someone in a wheelchair up a hill and got called some, some slurs that they shouldn't have been called. So just one, the, on this, give my apologies on behalf of Bulldog Nation. Cause that was unacceptable.

Matt Considine (02:08.524)
Hey, every fan base has them, come on. I mean, I think there's a lot of fan bases that think they're angels, man. I've been to, yeah, Ohio State has some of the worst. And I'm a huge Ohio State Buckeyes fan. My friends at Notre Dame, I've heard things said in the parking lot there that I will never repeat around children. so there's just like, football does, like many things. It brings out the best and the worst in people. And sometimes you see the worst, but.

The Professor (02:11.815)
Well, we all do. I Ohio State has more, I think.

The Professor (02:34.257)
That's right.

Matt Considine (02:38.412)
Yeah, screw football. Let's talk about the news of the day here, Kevin. We did it. You and I did it. We failed to qualify for the USGA four ball together, buddy, together. So those that are dedicated listeners to this podcast, they know very well. I have been on him for, is it two years? Three years. It's a probably around two and a half, three years.

The Professor (02:38.663)
Just like the...

What's our news? I don't know. This is news. What do do?

Ha

The Professor (03:00.999)
At least, at least.

Matt Considine (03:05.568)
to first, at first, very subtly, very subtly approach, looking for a four ball partner, looking for a specific skillset, looking for somebody who's dialed with wedges, who kind of has the consistency, doesn't make as many birdies as I do. But then it just became very direct. I was non-confrontational off the show, but on the show I just started going at my guy, Kevin, when are we doing this? Kevin, I need a partner. Kevin, when are we signing up?

The Professor (03:29.224)
every episode every episode

Matt Considine (03:33.022)
I'm coming down to you, you don't have to come up north. We even found a site down south with bent grass greens, which I wish I could have done more with. I was surprised to see that. But I just wanted to say, I don't accept your apology. I only wanna say thank you to you. I had so much fun on Monday. It was a blast and the result, yes, the result could have been better. The prep.

Absolutely, the prep could have been much better. But the company and our duo, I got a lot of thoughts on it. We're gonna talk about today. you know I believe in the universe speaking to me. You know I believe in the golf universe making things happen. Just so people didn't think Kevin and I made it up and we just said we played together. You can check the leaderboard, but we also brought our plane.

The Professor (04:03.057)
Could've been much better.

Matt Considine (04:26.658)
companion are marker the marker that they stuck is when no one else could put up with us. No one else wanted to listen to his geek out on the golf course. So

The Professor (04:32.327)
It's always such a dangerous pairing with a marker too. You're just like, oh my gosh, who am I going to get? Who am I going to get? And yeah, like you said, the universe speaks sometimes.

Matt Considine (04:39.16)
So it really does. it's Caleb Bowman. He's a mid-am amateur golfer in the state of Georgia from Carrollton, I believe. Just really a fascinating individual who you and I both just said, like, what a treat playing with this guy. He was just thoughtful and who you hope to get paired up with in events like this. And he's got such an interesting past, a former MMA fighter. I've played, you know, we'll get into that.

and only being in the game for a few years and already a plus two handicap. So he was fresh off a mission trip to Cuba when we met him at the chorus and he was the marker in our group. So we asked him if he wanted to join us on our Friday recording here so we get to chat with him. I think our listeners really enjoyed that conversation as

The Professor (05:29.063)
Yeah. Little, little did he know driving that two and a half hours that day to be a marker, which again, kudos to Caleb. Can't wait to jump into this interview here in a little bit, but drove two and half hours to be a marker and that worked out well for us. Um, yeah, we'll, we'll save all the four ball talk. I do think, you know, learning through that sometimes it's better to fail together than I think succeed, succeed on your own. think that was a, one of the quick lessons of, of Monday.

Matt Considine (05:53.706)
A big one. Yeah, I got a similar take there and looking forward to hearing Caleb's thoughts to it too as well. Because he played as a single obviously, being a marker in our group and there's a difference there. How about a fun fact, professor? I feel like I need some knowledge.

The Professor (06:08.977)
So you can probably guess where I'm going with this. I've been deep into the acquired podcasts again, and then the founders podcast. We're not, we're not doing it. We're not going to do a Dyson fun fact because that was, that's, know, the Dyson, the original guy, I forget his first name, amazing story, but no, we're going, we're going trader Joe's. got to, we got to go with trader Joe's again, you know, cause we've, we've ripped on trader Joe's before, both on and off lips. Yeah. You know,

Matt Considine (06:14.709)
does it have to do with vacuums? My least favorite domesticated device.

Matt Considine (06:31.182)
yeah.

Matt Considine (06:35.224)
A lot of Chicago listeners, a lot of them in the city, a lot of them shop at Trader Joe's.

The Professor (06:39.867)
go listen to the acquired podcasts on it. It's hilarious. I've always ripped on them for being a store. I hate walking around, just kind of hate the clientele that's in there. It's some of the like worst version of good people where everybody just in your way, all any Midwestern aspect. There's none of that in there, right? There's no after you here. Can I help you? It's just like everyone for themselves and let's not podcast. I'm like, the store was actually designed to be that way, which is fascinating. you know,

Matt Considine (07:03.426)
Yeah.

The Professor (07:06.265)
In terms of facts, there's so many about them, you the white labeling of stuff. They have a Costco model where they shop for you. Everything's going to be great, but then they put their own brand on everything. So you're actually eating typically other brands that you could buy in other stores, but it's Trader Joe's version. They've got what? The history of the wines fascinating, the store set up, no coupons. All that artwork is typically hand done in each store individually by artists employed at that store. So all that art you see in there.

is hand done, which is a really cool thing, right? That's something they could just outsource and mass print, but now they're going to hire people and pay people to do that. But the real cool, I thought quick fun fact was just the trader Joe's Morse code. Do know what I'm talking about here on this?

Matt Considine (07:49.558)
I listened to it and I know I don't remember hearing Morris code.

The Professor (07:53.842)
So when you're in the store, you don't hear anything. Definitely no pleasantries, but you don't hear anything on intercoms, nothing like that. The employees aren't really yelling out or anything there, but what do you hear this distinctive noise? You'll hear here. You'll hear the bell, right? All right. So what is the bell? One bell ring directs crew members to open up an inactive register, right? So you get one, one ring. That's like, you're busy upfront? Someone come open a register. Two bells are for customers with questions, right? So if a customer has a question ring, two bells.

Matt Considine (08:06.476)
That's right, a bell.

The Professor (08:23.567)
Okay, someone's going to someone's going to come answer your questions. Three bells calls in the manager, right? So brings in the top dog like, hey, we need something the employees need the manager there. They handle something. So that's their most Morse code. That's it. This works really well because every employee works every position there. You get moved about every, I think it's every three to six weeks, you're getting moved across the store to handle different things. So, you know, if a bell gets ringed, someone needs to come up front. Well, everybody in the store knows they

how the work to register then come up front. So cool little system, necessarily keep the work noise down in there for the customers.

Matt Considine (09:01.976)
I, it makes me think of the golf courses that have like the cafeteria microphone, like more group on the tree, more group 1210 on the tree. I, they need a bell, you know, there's one called big run in Chicago that I always say hilarious. Torrey Pines, Torrey Pines has the vacay, you know, a nice little bell that might irritate somebody, but less than the cafeteria lady, you know, yelling.

The Professor (09:12.325)
Yeah.

The Professor (09:18.011)
But the

The Professor (09:23.783)
before he parentizes it.

Matt Considine (09:31.736)
through the microphone. They do so many things that are so unique and different. Great call out. That's a really fun podcast to listen to. The artwork, by the way, here's a fun one. Do you know how all their artwork is Victorian? Like a weird pre, like 16th century type stuff. Do you know the reason for that is Joe was so cost centric in the beginning and he started doing his own packaging, his own label, he wanted a theme.

The Professor (09:45.637)
Yeah, you're talking about on the on the packaging that sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Considine (10:00.024)
Obviously the theme of the Tiki Hut was early on, but the Victorian stuff was because that predates copyrights and trademarks. So you don't owe anyone to use the same like designs that they're using that. So he just did it as a cost savings. Like it looks kind of cool and I don't have to pay for it. Anyways, all right, let's talk some foreball today. Let's get to know Caleb a little bit. Let's get to the show.

The Professor (10:08.91)
so use it for free.

The Professor (10:13.285)
Love it.

The Professor (10:25.201)
Do it.

Matt Considine (10:29.858)
Caleb Bowman. Welcome to the backdrop, man.

Caleb Bowman (10:31.35)
Amen.

Thanks for having us.

The Professor (10:36.163)
You, you, you had no, I'm jumping in real quick. You had no idea you were going to jump on a podcast when you got paired with us Monday morning, did you?

Matt Considine (10:36.216)
Before we get in, yes.

Caleb Bowman (10:42.03)
No, that's not like a normal routine that I run into like two awesome guys play golf with is already like a treat but to have guys that are like willing to talk and do stuff and then advice on podcasts and yet no that's kind of a rarity.

Matt Considine (10:57.524)
I, I, when we first, the moment I knew I was going to ask you to join us for a chat was, when, when you mentioned MMA, I've played golf now, Caleb, with thousands and thousands of people. it's one of the things I love about golf, like the characters and the person, but usually when you're playing in a USDA four ball choir, they're either in insurance, finance, banking, like even like the professor is as strange as it gets being an academic. but like,

Caleb Bowman (11:13.356)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (11:26.808)
I know you own a roofing business and that's what you do for a living, but just like, I've never played golf with someone who is a competitive MMA fighter. That was really fascinating to me.

Caleb Bowman (11:37.24)
Thank you.

Yeah, that's kind of like a running joke too, because I caddy for my buddies. Who's a really good golfer. names that class that are here at our hometown, but it's kind of a little run jokes. I've had it for him. And anytime we get like a match play scenario, he'll like look at me and he'll look at them. You're going to give me that putt or, or do I need to get my cat?

Matt Considine (11:57.24)
You probably, yeah, if you just kind of flex at people, you probably get more putts than the rest of us. Who would, you you spent five hours with the professor and I, if you put me and him in the octagon together, who's coming out, who's winning that? What do you think?

Caleb Bowman (12:02.031)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (12:12.591)
Oh, that's a one. Fresh has got some length, man. That definitely helps out, but being like sometimes length is great. Love it. And stuff like that. But if you know how to use it against them and stuff like that, then the guy who can get in tight can also do a lot of damage. So it'd be a lot of fun. Um, yeah.

Matt Considine (12:29.164)
I got these elbows that are like razor blades. These things hurt, man. They're sharp.

The Professor (12:31.495)
You got the hips too. You do have the hip flex and mobility.

Caleb Bowman (12:36.073)
That's all.

Matt Considine (12:38.464)
yeah, hopefully that day never comes, that we have to be forced to do that. well, I think like one, one, one, we'll come back to you, Caleb, if that's all right. I I want to have you be a part of our kind of recap here of the professor and I finally teeing up together as, as a team. I, here's my big take and then I'll kick it to you, professor.

Caleb Bowman (12:41.557)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (13:07.008)
I don't think humans are designed to play individual golf. That's what I've decided. We talk about the loneliness, the individual mindset. Any PGA Tour player, any mini Tour player will tell you how dark those days get and how hard it is. I even think about like caddy, Caleb just mentioned caddies. The original caddy back in the 1600s when Mary, Queen of Scott,

The Professor (13:13.383)
Matt Considine (13:35.988)
she's kind of cited as the first person to use the term caddy. She, not just her, but like they only carried like four clubs. What do they need caddies for? I think they just wanted some company. I think they're like, man, this, thing is hard. I need somebody to settle up with. I want someone to talk to about these. And that really was my big takeaway. It was like, I think we're social creatures. I don't think we're designed for whether you're an introvert or an extrovert. I don't think we're designed for individual golf. I don't think I am.

The Professor (13:47.655)
Mmm.

Matt Considine (14:05.336)
I think I'm a four ball player now and I need to accept that, whether it's with you or my guy Caleb here who I'll add to the phone, Rolodex. It's just like being a team is so much more fulfilling and I'll get to like four ball history, cause I did do some research for this thought. It's just the way the game started too. Like alternate shot, then four ball, then individual. So.

I don't know, that was my like real heady thought today was, yeah, we didn't do what we set out to do, but it's so much more gratifying than if I were to fly down to Georgia and play in the mid-amp qualifier, for example, and failed by the same argument.

The Professor (14:47.749)
Hmm. Yeah, I really thought about that. Let me put it to Caleb here. Caleb, you're know, again, we're get real focused on your story, but somewhat new to golf, you know, playing the last four years. Do you use an MMA MMA, I assume is a little more individual because you're never fighting as a team. In golf, have you gravitated towards like one on one competition, stroke play competition, match play, you know, four ball with the buddies? Where do you gravitate towards now that you've moved into golf?

Caleb Bowman (15:16.303)
So it's competition wise. love like the solo event. Like I love grinding out because that it did take me back to MMA, which is me versus him in their cage. There is no, I can't tag somebody in like, Hey, help me. You know, if I tag him in, I'm done. But what I've noticed with golf, if you think about the time you actually spend over the ball, versus the time in between shots, like Matt said, like I have realized that golf is a lot more having that cat or having somebody there.

The Professor (15:29.137)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (15:45.008)
I think definitely helps because you spend a lot more time outside of golf when you're golfing. It's crazy. When you're walking down the fairway, you're not thinking about what to show. You're not supposed to be thinking about what your shot you did or what's going to say. You're just supposed to be present. And it's like having the caddy someone to talk to, just get you out of your head until you get up to that little think box behind the behind the thing. So, I do love four balls though. I love having a partner. I have one role when I play four ball and there is no sorrys.

The Professor (16:12.869)
No Sarris, love that role.

Caleb Bowman (16:13.837)
Yeah, no, sorry. There are no stars on a platform role because I'm trying my absolute best and I would hope that my partner is trying his best. So if we're both trying to best, I can't be upset if you make a mistake. I shouldn't be upset if I make a mistake. It's just, tried. So.

The Professor (16:27.495)
That's right. It's like you step up and you're all you can do is move the next shot, try your hardest and keep trying your hardest with. I love that rule. I have that same exact role as well. No, sorry. It's like, Hey, that's just shots over. That's move on. No, but Matt, like go make that point. mean, I've always been fascinated by, you know, golf's roots competitively are in four ball enforceables. Uh, and you can correct me if I'm wrong there, right? Um, I always, uh, you know, I hear conflicting reports of

Caleb Bowman (16:31.864)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (16:49.548)
Yeah. Yeah.

The Professor (16:54.543)
Reports of four ball was more popular for some sort of more popular early on I do here

Matt Considine (16:59.756)
What I gathered, so 1800s, everyone's playing alternate shot if it's competitive. So that was how match play, it was match play and it was foursomes. So like the two best, whether it was amateur or professional, whether it was Tom Morris and his son, or it was the two well-to-do amateur teaming up from the RNA to go play North Barrett, like that's what they did. The alt shot was.

The Professor (17:08.167)
So if you have four sounds or.

Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (17:28.982)
Was it well towards the end of that century. So it's so funny when you talk about golf history where it's like, like, yeah, you do that for 90 years and, and, and then you have four ball, casually called best ball, better ball. And it wasn't officially part of events, but it just kind of happened where there was always the norm of two balls in a group, whether you played your own ball.

The Professor (17:51.024)
Yeah, and it's still some clubs are still two ball only where like you can play four sums or you can play one on one with two balls, but there's only ever going to be two balls in a group.

Matt Considine (18:01.592)
Bingo, which I think is such a lost tradition we could bring back. But the four balls just started happening around in the 1890s and alternate shot kind of actually was viewed as the older game, like the older version of the game. So it did catch on to some degree. I'm sure it's a lot of the stuff we still hear at new club, which is, don't want to come out and only hit half the shots. Like everyone pushes back, but.

If you're a competitor and you get that alt, anyways, this isn't about Alt Shot, we're sticking with four ball. So it was finally added to the rules of golf by the RNA in 1908. So that's its first codification in the rules of golf as a format. And so from there you got the, you know, the RNA holding some competition, match play mostly.

The Professor (18:35.128)
haha

Matt Considine (18:58.168)
and then it was CB McDonald who actually frowned upon four ball as and I quote a degradation He saw it as threatening to displace alternate shot as the preferred team game So like you got this old I mean, I've heard Charles was a hard dude and a tough dude to get along with but

The Professor (19:16.623)
He was, his opinions were expressed.

Caleb Bowman (19:17.776)
Good.

Matt Considine (19:21.45)
I could just see being like the 35 year old member trying to play a four ball match and old man McDonald on the tee screaming at you, you know, like that old, exactly. So it's a degradation, which I don't fully disagree with, but I also love four ball just as much. And so the earliest record is 1893. There was a Thursday match between John King and A.G.

The Professor (19:30.705)
shaking his fist at the clouds.

Matt Considine (19:50.36)
AJG Barkley against E King and AP Anderson. They shot 74 and won their match. So that's kind of the birth 1893, but America seemed to adopt it much quicker. There was a lot more Charles Blair McDonald's over in Scotland than there was in the US. So it actually became the, think from what I could read this morning,

the linchpin to why is stroke play so dominant here? It's like, well, four ball match play took hold. And then from that, became, you know, maybe four ball stroke play or just, hey, I'm playing my own ball. I shot 74 by myself today, even though my team shot 72.

The Professor (20:26.735)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (20:32.773)
Yeah, we're already hitting our own balls, so we might as well just score it out and then that quickly becomes, and then obviously competitive. Professional golf goes straight into stroke play and we're going to just, we're a hundred years into that now.

Matt Considine (20:45.964)
And we were talking about this on the course. Do you guys remember, when was the first USGA four ball qualifier? It's not that long ago. Or four ball, four, the.

The Professor (20:55.463)
2019 maybe I don't think it was played in 18 But I think maybe 19 right First one being who hosted the first one It wasn't I don't think it was banned in I don't know Was it Philly cricket club Philly 2015 is that long ago man Wow I mean I wasn't well that

Matt Considine (21:03.149)
That's right.

Matt Considine (21:14.454)
They started it in 2015.

Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (21:20.858)
Time flies.

The Professor (21:23.687)
This spring, mean, four balls becoming incredibly popular. Right. Think of the number of four ball. have the USDA that's suit one of the hardest tournaments to sign up for. Right. That thing goes quick. You have people at all ages, one of the toughest to qualify for it. Cause you've got ringers across the board, right. High school kids all the way up through the best senior AMS, uh, are playing in this. Uh, so skidding, super popular tons of country clubs are running four balls, right. You have wing foots, a famous one, several, and those are getting more and more popular.

Maybe we have a true true detective situation here where time is a was a time as a flat circle. and maybe just maybe the USDA could come out with a four sums tournament. Well, what I mean, imagine, imagine that in the, different skills you need in four sums, right? Planning who's going to hit each tee ball in each hole, right? Really thinking about the course fit. How do your games fit? Right? You don't want two power makers like me on a team.

Matt Considine (22:04.76)
Ooh, you're talking to me. They're singing to my heart there.

Caleb Bowman (22:09.594)
haha

The Professor (22:22.919)
you also can struggle if you have to just heavy hitter birdie fires out there that also thrown a lot of variants of bogies, you know, that's not going to make you very, can we remind them the listeners actually let the listeners know maybe Caleb wants to let them know who made more birdies this weekend.

Matt Considine (22:30.712)
Caleb and I in 2020 26. Yeah, that's cable Caleb

Caleb Bowman (22:41.898)
Ooh, y'all had a good little match going on up there too, huh?

The Professor (22:44.656)
the

Matt Considine (22:44.849)
Hold on a second this weekend this weekend is a very loose turn the professor only remembers half of it from his football Shenanigans, that's the role reversal That's the Time is a flat circle. That was like bizarro world for me. I was always in our relationship I was always the hungover one. I mean, I was always the guy that was partying Kevin was studying he was

Caleb Bowman (22:51.408)
It's mostly feeling you're half anyways, right like

The Professor (22:52.167)
You

Matt Considine (23:12.236)
doing his thing. I was chasing girls and drinking too many beers. Seeing my guy pick me up before our practice round in rough shape, I was like, who is this guy? What is going on here? That was strange. But here's my issue with your birdie game. And I want to talk about this. The practice round, come on, you can't add the practice round into this birdie game. It's the competition is the birdie game.

The Professor (23:15.429)
That was freaking Mountain Dew.

Caleb Bowman (23:22.062)
Hahaha

Caleb Bowman (23:28.192)
That's all right.

The Professor (23:38.299)
You, I believe you started the bet.

Matt Considine (23:41.492)
I did because I was losing focus in the practice route and I needed something to bring me back. I actually, so I have two excuses. you like, no, Caleb, before I give any more color to our teamwork and our minus two, by the way, let's share with the audience. We each made two birdies. We had two bogeys.

Caleb Bowman (23:44.624)
Thank

The Professor (24:03.429)
We didn't smash any birdies, which was good. That was helpful.

Matt Considine (24:06.668)
That was helpful, but we finished dead in the middle, T25 of T50, right where we deserved. know, Caleb, you've played in these before, you've played with lot of different people. How would you assess, give us a letter grade here for the professor and ice four ball attempt.

Caleb Bowman (24:06.692)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (24:10.885)
right where we deserve.

Caleb Bowman (24:12.6)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (24:25.596)
man y'all work really good together and that's something like I've got guys that play four balls all time and some of them are really good but they just they don't work good with the other person and it's crazy how having that other person can like be the difference you could easily have both I said you're both offset birdies that's awesome that's huge in four balls you know you picked the other one up when someone messed up it's huge I would give you I'd give it each other like a let's go with a B plus a must be plug it y'all are definitely pretty good with it

Golf is golf. Y'all could have the best day that day or could be worse. It's going to change all the time. But the way you work together in a four ball is I think more important than what you can go out and just do by yourself. I'll definitely, yeah.

The Professor (25:09.415)
I think I.

Matt Considine (25:09.73)
Momentum, momentum's so huge in four ball. Professor, I wanted to ask you, well, let me get to my excuses for not qualifying.

Caleb Bowman (25:13.454)
Yeah.

The Professor (25:19.769)
Well, notice, Caleb didn't make a comment about our games at all. was how we we mesh together. There was no comments about me being out half the holes just like walking through the woods hanging out.

Matt Considine (25:23.99)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (25:31.064)
Hey, I didn't know if you're chasing a squirrel, if you've seen a ball. But I mean, the games are hard to judge because like, even when I told y'all, like I was driving the ball kind of bad and putting kind of bad when normally that's like the best things that I have. So it's hard to like, yeah, your game is really, good or really bad based off of what I suppose. I mean, y'all both, you're both in the U.S. football. That's huge. You don't get in that unless you're a good player anyways. So I think that speaks enough about your games. Surprising how far Matt hit the ball though.

The Professor (25:33.319)
You

The Professor (25:44.363)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (26:00.751)
That kind of caught me off guard.

The Professor (26:00.936)
Well, those hips, man, I'm telling you those...

Matt Considine (26:01.986)
Thank you. Thank you, Caleb.

I was, do, Kevin has always, never given me my flowers when it comes to my athletic ability. He never does. And Caleb, it did get under my skin a couple of times where, you and I, I'm keeping up with you most of the day. mean, what I, I'm, I'm one 66 foot. What are you like six foot two 10 of it. Okay. Yeah. So like Caleb's.

Caleb Bowman (26:12.016)
That's nice.

Caleb Bowman (26:21.122)
And that was surprising.

Caleb Bowman (26:26.189)
I'm six foot, yeah, six foot, 238, 240.

The Professor (26:30.445)
Lots of ground force.

Matt Considine (26:31.99)
Yeah, a lot of ground force. He's a big dude and I'm a little dude. I'm a skinny scrawny guy. And it did get under my skin a couple of times when my partner kept looking at you like, he's like, when we'd ask the question, what's that bunker at? And, you're like, Caleb, Caleb can probably clear it. And I'm like, Whoa, mother, mother. I was on tilt after he said that for the third time, I tried to drive that 16th hole.

Caleb Bowman (26:33.986)
Yeah

The Professor (26:48.07)
Hahaha.

Caleb Bowman (26:54.8)
It looked like

The Professor (26:58.247)
I know how that I know I know Matt needs the little fire under his heel. He needs that just like when we walked off 17. I asked him if he was going to make any birdies today.

Caleb Bowman (27:07.234)
It was surprising me because like I I mean, like, like I went to speed training last year and stuff in which really ramped up. went from an average care, like two 55. Now my average care is three 13. I still have those three twenties, three stuff in the tank, but with like those first few shots, when I was like hitting, we go to my ball and your balls right there too. I was like, okay, that doesn't happen a lot with play with it.

Matt Considine (27:07.672)
You

The Professor (27:27.239)
Audience, he's a true 313 carry too. We always joke on this that, you know, I'm a 290 and it's like you're 260. Caleb, true speed.

Caleb Bowman (27:33.0)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (27:34.946)
Yeah, Caleb knows his, he knows his numbers. Yeah. Yeah. And I've lost a lot of in the second half of this year, but the, it was, it was helpful to see, like that's not Kevin's game. Kevin isn't gonna overpower golf courses. One thing I love as a partner, but it was nice to, you know, when you step up with some speed, there was certain holes where it's like, it did remind me that, Hey, you gotta, you know, stay aggressive and go at this. Cause that's my job on this team. and I didn't take, I didn't do it. I didn't take care of the part fives. didn't do all that.

Caleb Bowman (27:59.249)
Thank you.

Matt Considine (28:04.226)
But I got one big excuse and I know we're all aligned with this. And Caleb, you spoke up. You are a true leader, my friend, because we walked in that scoring tent at the end and it was the first thing I heard you say. But here's my biggest excuse. The reason Professor and I aren't headed out to Truin and trying to win an USGA, one of those nice trophies is because there were no snacks on the golf course. The golf course was the Pro Shop White Columns Country Club.

The Professor (28:07.814)
what do we got?

Caleb Bowman (28:27.854)
Never heard of it.

Matt Considine (28:33.824)
I was pleasantly surprised. I really enjoyed the golf course. Their staff was fantastic. Everybody there was wonderful. GSGA runs exceptional golf tournaments from my purview and I wouldn't know as well as you guys, but I have a lot of good things to say. But my God, did I need a snack making that turn. I look like a hungry New York City rat looking for food behind dumpsters on the way to that 10th T.

The Professor (28:38.439)
Awesome stuff.

Matt Considine (28:59.088)
I needed some sugar, I needed some pain. And the sad part is I've had this giant bag of Costco treats in my bag for the entire year that people have been making fun of me for. But my wife knows this about me, I get hangry. And so I had that, the last one I ate was the day before. But I didn't even think that the USGA, because this is run by the USGA, I didn't even think they wouldn't have snacks on the first and 10th teas. At least a banana, an apple, something.

The Professor (29:28.621)
some nature valley bars.

Matt Considine (29:31.042)
blew me away. That's my excuse.

Caleb Bowman (29:33.265)
It's a big one like a GSGA definitely runs really good one and they usually have them in the hip my boy Josh a path to I was like hey man Like you said, I'm six foot two forty something you call me out here to walk with golf course that does this all time like I Need a snack to a club that's clothes on today something have that and he's like, yeah, you know GSG definitely is like USDA They run a little bit different and I was like Yeah, I'm like you man. I usually have like snacks in my bag nothing

I look like a zombie coming up to the last year.

The Professor (30:03.238)
Yeah. I mean, there's a reason we know we birdied what our seventh, eighth and ninth holes of the day. We go birdie, birdie, birdie stuff them in there on the 10th hole of the day. Mr. Putt, know, 11 hard hole play well 12, you know, roll another birdie. we're now I think that took us to three under seven under got into a playoff. You know, we're four back going into the easiest stretch of the course. It's all birdie holes closing in.

We didn't play them very well. So yeah, I'm with you. I'm signed on USGA. Let's call them out. That's the reason we didn't get in. It's definitely on them, not on our games at all.

Matt Considine (30:37.72)
It's safe when you're not.

Caleb Bowman (30:38.798)
You see it all the time on tour. Those guys are walking down the stretch eating something. Snacks are important.

Matt Considine (30:45.344)
Yeah. And I listen, I, you got to take accountability that that is ultimately, you got to have the snacks in the bag. That is just such a glaring, mistake on our part. But I know there are people at the USDA to listen to this show. Kevin and I know a couple of them. I don't think they're overseeing the snack department, but I'm going to make the official request to them that they run this up the ladder.

Caleb Bowman (31:10.96)
Thank you.

Matt Considine (31:14.88)
your USGA qualifiers. There was a heck of a lot of people paying $300, $400 a ticket at Oakmont this year. Just siphon a little bit of that off and make sure we got some bananas and some bars on the tee for your qualifiers. Come on guys.

The Professor (31:31.815)
across the bulls maybe.

Caleb Bowman (31:34.736)
Now I'm curious. Oh, now I'm curious. Hear me out. The people that qualified, if you did a poll, who had snacks and who didn't, do you think there's a shift? You think like the guy that made it in, like, oh yeah, we had snacks like every four or five holes. And then you're like, all of sudden there's a big drop and it's like, oh yeah, we didn't eat anything.

Matt Considine (31:45.656)
It's gonna be.

The Professor (31:46.082)
I-

The Professor (31:55.846)
Yeah, they had your, what was the snack you like to make peanut butter and honey, right Caleb?

Caleb Bowman (31:59.537)
Yeah, when I'm playing tournaments and I know that I'm like, there going to be called on a peanut butter honey, about three or four of those things.

The Professor (32:07.439)
I'm bad bad

Matt Considine (32:07.594)
I love that. I'm gonna add, I'm a peanut butter banana guy, but after hearing your honey take, I'm gonna be adding that.

Caleb Bowman (32:11.834)
Mm.

has actually a little kick little sweet thing to it, but it's not a package.

The Professor (32:16.903)
I think the USGA run this up the ladder. The three of us will come on as consultants. We will, you know, we'll do a pro bono just to make sure players are taken care of and we'll give you a little spread of what should be on each, each tee box to make the masses happy and keep them, you know, keep everybody on even playing field then, right? Then it's on who remembered who was too hung over the grab the snacks when they're coming up there. Now everybody's on an even playing field. got their snacks. They got their calories. Now we can see who really has the best game. Cause that didn't happen on Monday.

Caleb Bowman (32:29.456)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (32:40.922)
Yeah.

Yeah, here's yours.

Matt Considine (32:46.284)
The other thing I wanted to call out as my other accountable, I was gonna say excuses, I'm done with that. I'm accountable for these, this is on me. I know what works for me. The birdie game, even though Professor's just given me a hard time trying to roll in fake birdies he made during the practice round as part of our birdie game. The way that we played it is first in. So.

Everyone's heard the birdie game. If you're going out with a buddy, it's just who makes the most birdies. That's kind of the game. And you can put $5 a birdie. I think during the Rio round, I told Kevin $20 a birdie, but first in wins. So if I hit it to two feet and Kevin makes a 20 foot bomb, that's his birdie. And that has always helped me in these four ball things because you guys know this, your head can get different ways.

Caleb Bowman (33:17.797)
Mm.

Matt Considine (33:39.338)
and thinking about a hundred different things. And in stroke play, sometimes a couple of extra thoughts truly help or individual play. But when you know, you got to shoot eight, nine under the birdie game helps me so much to just stay aggressive. And yeah, you don't want to be thinking about the result of a birdie all the time, but it just kind of, think helps, helps me focus on the right thing. and Kevin, honestly, like that slow start to the day.

Caleb Bowman (33:46.596)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (34:09.08)
I hadn't thought about the birdie game, even though we had talked about the night before, I didn't think about it till like seven or seventh hole today. And that's my other mistake is we should have just been, you should have been in my face on one saying, I'm gonna clean you out. I'm gonna get at least $400 because I'm gonna make more birdies than you today. That helps me think about, you know, four ball play specifically making more birdies.

The Professor (34:34.113)
I'll remember that for next time. You need that to get fired up.

Caleb Bowman (34:34.256)
Yes.

Matt Considine (34:37.506)
Do you guys disagree with that at all? Is there like another angle you think of with that? Like, does that hurt you if you do that?

Caleb Bowman (34:43.952)
So that's fun. Cause like, was just thinking about what you're saying is that I don't know when we did the birdie game. do more like greens because in football having two guys on the green is probably the most important thing you could ever do. Your partner's in play. You get so many guys like, okay, now I'm going to be very aggressive because he's in play. Yeah. He might've been played right now, but he might not be in the minute. So like having two guys on the green every single time, like you're going to make somebody's going make birdies. So I, my football partner, that's our goal is like, who can hit the most greens.

The Professor (34:53.573)
most boring thing.

The Professor (35:07.59)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (35:11.684)
because it kind of pushes us to like, no matter where we go on the first ones, can I get to the green? Because if we're both on there, somebody's probably gonna roll one. If we're both, get every single green, there's no way you don't make a seven, burn.

The Professor (35:22.922)
You and you you get that big mo right? Someone just rolls in a 20 foot or somewhere. You just it's going to happen the first three or four holes. I'm going to roll in a 24 and then it's off the traces right like proximity starts shrinking down. You know you're getting in there. Both are 15 feet and 10 feet and you start rolling. Caleb would like. OK, so Matt like that. I'm definitely someone I'm more meditative like when I need to play golf. I need to be in a more meditative state.

Caleb Bowman (35:33.05)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (35:39.984)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (35:47.752)
You know, there's high heart rate, low heart rate players. is a thing in science has been shown this, like in terms of competition, that some people are high heart rate by a business partner, Nico, very high heart rate. I need to be down, right? I need to be low, just smooth. That's where I'm going to be relaxed and the best. Okay. Like talk to MMA versus golf, like getting pumped up for the round. Is there different similarities? Have you been able to bring any of that into the golf game or is it totally different when you're walking to the first tee versus I'm getting ready to get in the cage and, know, go to town on this person?

Caleb Bowman (35:50.224)
Thank

Caleb Bowman (35:58.885)
Hmm.

Caleb Bowman (36:14.64)
They both have similar feelings on the start but total different reactions you got to take So like for MMA, obviously you're like back behind the curtain the music starts first and that's like you're already when you're getting wrapped up you get in the hands been you get thing ready to go it starts peaking the heart rate a little bit but when the music kicks on and it's your time like walking out there there everything starts really going

The Professor (36:15.963)
You know, where's your head at on that?

Caleb Bowman (36:39.472)
And so it's pumping up a sub that, but so some guys, they really feed off that. They keep that energy go and they get to the fight. Other guys, um, need to be more composed. So you, especially guys that have like softer, soft means they're composed. trying to like say calm because in any situation, you're not going to get through it. If you're not calm, like, don't care what it is. Come always win, but having that chaos, having that adrenaline going in MMA helped me. I've always been the kind of guy, like I said, on the course that there, was like,

When I get pumped or I get messed up, I could hit somebody. know, some energy is coming out of me is going into something and in golf, you can't do that. Like I said, I the word controlled chaos for as bad as I want to hit the starter on the first tee to get me going. I'm just going to get DQ'd. So

Matt Considine (37:18.136)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (37:26.328)
I think that was the first thing you said to me, Caleb. asked, what's the similarity between, or what's the difference between the two, the biggest difference? You're like, in MMA, when it hits you, you got somebody to hit back. And he's like, all you got to hit, you can only hit yourself in golf mentally. And I was like, that's so true.

Caleb Bowman (37:38.148)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (37:42.712)
Yeah, I went from a physical beating to mental beating, switching from MMA to golf, but...

The Professor (37:48.679)
Maybe there's an argument for your caddy there. need to write caddy where he can just walk off a green and just absolutely slug them. If you're like, what just happened? Like, that's his role. He's my punching bag.

Caleb Bowman (37:53.259)
That's all.

Yeah, that's why I around about clothing. Yeah, I joke with my buddy that I cater for. like, man, when you can cater for me, you just gotta make sure the jaw's tight. Just let me get one little kick pop and then we'll be good.

Matt Considine (37:56.204)
Yeah, someone who can take a hit.

He's good.

The Professor (38:04.807)
you

Matt Considine (38:08.78)
I want to come back to the adrenaline thing, because I've struggled to determine who I am in this. In fighting, is there like a storage factor to it? Meaning you get all that music hits, you get pumped up, but you said calm will always win. I do believe that's true. I think I'm a high adrenaline golfer, but if I lose my calm or I get too much energy too early, I run out of steam.

Caleb Bowman (38:14.17)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (38:35.984)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (38:38.142)
Is that similar in fighting? Is there like a, like a surplus you almost have to hold onto for the later rounds?

Caleb Bowman (38:41.437)
yeah.

Caleb Bowman (38:46.719)
It's For the terms they would even use it blow in your wad I mean does it like you have all this up built up the getting if you go out and you do a finger off the rip You're done adrenaline for as much as as great as of a tool that it can be it can also be a destruction because like it's got It's got to come down. No one could stay on the adrenaline entire time. It's got to come down Yeah, there's a crash and but if you watch the greatest golfers out there tiger knows guys like there weren't no guys who just rolled in a puns. All right, cool I'm gonna go into the next hole there

The Professor (38:51.015)
of you.

Matt Considine (39:03.128)
There's a crash.

Caleb Bowman (39:12.848)
They're there. They write when it's there, they write it. But as it's coming down, they've learned to say, Hey, calm focus. Let me get to this hole, get to this and then boom, it's back again. So I think it's definitely there. Um, and if I didn't say anything, got as much as pumped as you are coming out into it. When you're, when they're reading the rules and they're, know, before the ref says go, that's when it's like, all right, now time to compose myself. Time to like, take all this into that I've got and put it into my mind and into my routine, just like with golf.

The Professor (39:36.112)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (39:42.03)
get out of my own head, let my body do what it's been trained to do.

Matt Considine (39:45.88)
What are you?

The Professor (39:46.12)
Did you have any strategies like mid fight, Caleb? Like, you know, you're in mid fight and maybe you're, you've, you're peaking too high or you've had that crash. We're like, okay, compose myself in the middle of the action. Any strategies there and did the does translate to the golf game at all?

Caleb Bowman (40:00.913)
Yeah. So, um, that's kind like having the caddy edge, cornerman. They're there to see stuff whenever you can't. And they're there to reason whenever you're just seeing red. Um, but for me, it was always like, especially when you went to the ground, if you went to the ground, you're also trying to figure out for me, I was a striker. I've always been the ground and Pat, like, I like to say up top, I know my moves in the ground, but I want to get out and get back up. So in the middle of round, yeah, I to like compose myself and say, okay, how do I get out of the situation? Like in golf, when you hit one to the woods, how do I get out?

It doesn't matter about, I need to make the big move to do something crazy. No, I just need to get out and get back to where I'm good at. So yeah, you definitely have times. And if I wear it's like that, and other times you're saying, then you took one to the, to the face and it shocks you just enough. Like if I get another one of these, I'm down like I've got to move. I'll never forget. It might've been one of those ones that still on YouTube was Sterling Moore. I was like, I dropped the guy like three, four times right off the rip. Like it was, it was one of my very first amateur fights. And so when you hit, when someone hits a ground, you can't.

ground and pound to the face. So I just want a role as an amateur. So when he dropped like a second, third time, like it's hard for me not to go like this, hit this guy. And the ref even was like, Oh, hold on, hold on. And I was like, there's no timeouts in MMA. Like you can't just have him box and you don't get to let him up. So, but it was funny because once he finally did get up, I think in our second round, he threw an overhand right and it split my, like, I mean, it just caught me right there. Perfect. I was bleeding out of it. When that thing landed, I was like, Oh, that one got me. I was a little dizzy.

The Professor (41:11.621)
Yeah, right. Like.

Matt Considine (41:28.92)
I, that is the, uh, I watched it this morning. Uh, I told before we were recording, uh, my wife turned over at like 5 50 AM. She goes, what are you doing? I was like, I'm watching, um, my guy, Caleb and MMA fight. Um, but that's so fascinating that like one single punch, cause frankly, I watched the first minute of that fight, Caleb, and I was concerned about the other guy. I was like, Caleb's going to kill this guy. Like this is, I don't know if I want to watch the end of this.

Caleb Bowman (41:38.916)
Good day.

you

Caleb Bowman (41:52.772)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (41:58.234)
Yeah

Matt Considine (41:58.264)
And I couldn't believe how it flipped. But is it truly that one punch? I mean, he obviously cut you and that flipped everything,

Caleb Bowman (42:02.383)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (42:08.208)
Well, it definitely played a big role. Um, like I said, it was, it hit me and got me dazed. Um, but a little backstory for him because I kind of did my homework on it. So obviously, but so Sterling, great guy, me and him are actually good friends nowadays and stuff too. When he was trying to find stuff, no one would fight him. So Sterling's background is a hand to hand combat trainer for seals. Okay. So he's been in his whole life. He's on his own gym. He's been back in belt. So like he's, he's been in fighting since he was a kid and he's trained the best of the best of the

The Professor (42:25.511)
Right.

Yeah, he's...

Caleb Bowman (42:36.848)
of the nation to be in hand to hand life or death situations. So when he was first getting into it, all the guys, especially around where we grew up knew like he's really good. And so the guy was like, Oh no, don't fight it. Don't fight it. And I was like, it's a win-win for me. Either he beats me. Ah, it's okay. Kind of expected. beat him. Whoa. Kayla just beat Sterling. Yeah. But I knew, I knew that he was a very, like he grew up like kickboxing. I knew he was going to be legs and

The Professor (42:55.525)
I'm the real deal, yeah.

Caleb Bowman (43:03.216)
Enhanced first so the first I did that if you watch around the rip soon as he does the kick I come in for a punch and I had I had practiced that So many times to land at first one to try to just drop him Because that's what my very first fight ever in MMA stuff is one punch knocked him out in 15 seconds in very first round It's Actually, I have I have a medal and everything from where like I said a record for this place. I'm like the fastest knockout. So yeah But like in golf

Matt Considine (43:20.056)
Ha

The Professor (43:26.701)
Show me a hard game. Show me a hard game, right?

Caleb Bowman (43:31.056)
You plan out your rounds, you plan out your advances stuff. Um, the problem with that fight, because I was sick, knew I didn't plan past, uh, the first round or two. was like, okay, I'm going to knock this guy out or I'll be done in the first like round round and a half. But when it went longer than that and I was winded and I was like, all right, I didn't plan. I really don't have a game. Yeah, we didn't play it.

Matt Considine (43:52.248)
It's like me not packing snacks. I wasn't ready for 13 through 17, for 18, you know?

Caleb Bowman (43:59.587)
In three minutes minutes. as an entry, you're you played three rounds in the three minutes long. You think that three minutes ain't that long. I promise you it's that long when you're using. Yes. When you're using everything in your body, I was done. I was so tired by around two. I think my corner and helped me like when I got done the round, they had like, you have to go up this ramp to get out. I was like, guys, you gotta help me walk up this ramp.

Matt Considine (44:07.576)
It's gotta feel like an eternity in there with somebody swinging a...

Matt Considine (44:24.674)
There's so many routes. I truly find you so interesting, Caleb, and we're gonna keep talking, but there's so many routes to go, but I'm gonna use this theme I've noticed just in the things we've talked about out on the golf course and out here today is this selflessness, this, my dad always calls it service above self, that you do things for others before you. Like that's what life is truly, the purpose that most of us are looking for is serving others. And whether it's,

taking a fight with somebody who nobody else would take, thinking about him and giving him that opportunity or your drive in two and a half hours to be a marker. So Kevin and I don't play alone or whatever they do when that happens. And then your mission work. I wanted to just make some time here to talk about your mission work. Cause I can tell you are so passionate about this and you just got back from Cuba before T ended up with us. I wanna...

Use your, your tattoos if I can to, get us to this story. Cause I I'm trying to guide you to a specific story that really touched my heart. It was, the professor was asking about your ink. I don't have ink. I'm a white guy named Matt who plays golf. Most of us don't. The professor does professor has some very meaningful ones, but, you do too. And I was wondering if you could kind of share your, story about the boy on the street in Cuba.

Caleb Bowman (45:30.618)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (45:50.552)
and the shoes through your tattoos with us.

Caleb Bowman (45:50.787)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (45:56.207)
Yeah. Yeah. So, it's, it's also, it's on my ankle. It's a, there's two, shoes. one is an old one worn out raggedy one and one's a brand new one. So in Cuba, a little backdrop story, the average income, there's like 18 bucks a month. So they don't really make much. so necessities shoes, ibuprofen things that we literally have countless of that we don't think anything about costs them so much money that they have to decide, do we eat or do we put clothes? Do we eat or do we deal with a headache? Stuff like that.

But love talking about Jesus anytime I can. That's so awesome. So we're out in Cuba and I'm part of the evangelism team. So we're going out, we're talking to people on the street and this young boy, he's probably 12 years old. So when that runs up to me and he's like, Hey, your tattoos, he's talking about shoes. also you got to translate it there because they speak Spanish. One of my really good buddies, Daniel translated for me, but the kid was talking about tattoos and was like, Hey, they're awesome. And I noticed like he was just out there barefoot and it's like discussing there. There's.

trash all down the streets. There's, I mean, puddles and puddles of just stagnant water, like stuff that I'm trying to step over and around in my shoes. This kid's going through just barefoot. And so like, really hit me, you know, like, cause Jesus always says, you know, I was hungry and you gave me food. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. was naked and you clothed me like, I have extra shoes. I could always give shoes. And I like, I wanted to just give him the ones off my feet. His was a little smaller than mine. I was like, let me do something. Let me, let me buy you a new pair.

Um, cause for there's a couple of dollars to me, like this, I spend more of it going to get the cheeseburger sometimes, you know, and here he is in a shoe. So he actually took us to his mom and it was like, mom, these people want to talk to you. And she is a, um, they own a little snack shop. So they kind of still like food and drinks and this stays open 24 seven so that they can even keep the lights on. So she works all day. Your husband works all night. He stays up during the day to like protect and make sure no one comes and steals the food or anything.

The Professor (47:28.4)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (47:55.697)
So they work all the time, but she says that she does it and stuff like the kids each have one pair of shoes that they wear like school or church. She'd let some go to church, which was phenomenal because a lot of people out there don't do that. So, uh, I went in and she actually has three kids and I asked her, look, I want to buy all three of my pair of shoes. Um, if, I can do that. And she like broke down, I mean, just for her, for someone to come out and do something like that was, was crazy. Um, but the thing that really drove me was like,

thought that was a calling for me to do anyways, but I them to understand also what it meant for Jesus to give his life. You know, Jesus gave his life so that they could live, but I wanted them to kind of get a taste of what it means to like give. So I was like, Hey, look, I want to buy all the food and drinks you have in here. I'm about all out and I want the kids anything to go give it to people that don't have anything so they can see what it's like. Okay. Yes. Someone gave me, this is awesome. How good does it feel? It feels 10 times better to be able to give than to get all day.

So man, like lit them up to be able to, I think it's, think us dollars, maybe 200 bucks, someone that to pay everything out of the shop, buy kids shoes and give them enough money so that she could actually close the shop down for one night and take her kids to BBS. So just, mean, God's and he's so awesome ways that he works and stuff too. It's so cool.

The Professor (49:15.079)
I mean, that's that story. And Caleb told us a story on the course. To me, mean, touching all the way through and what I really appreciate from from it and I'm going to cast a stone at myself here is I think what it brought to my mind is including a lot of my charity work, I think a lot of charity work. Yeah, it's that aspect like makes you feel good because you're helping someone out. All right. And that's not a bad thing. But you even took that extra neck, that extra step to help someone else be in a position to be able to help.

other people out. And that to me was like, wow, we, how often do we do that? Never like never do we in our charity work, make that move to then help other people also pass it on along. Right. And that just really stood out to me, Caleb is just that's special. You know, that's not something normal people think about. So the fact you did that was really, really touching and just like, I applaud you for doing that.

Caleb Bowman (49:46.35)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (49:58.576)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (50:11.6)
Well, I give all the credit to God, obviously, you know, I mean, every single day when I first got there, I was kind of nervous, you know, walking on the streets in my entire time. I'm not just nervous about like me or what I'm going to say. I'm more nervous that I'm going to miss something that he doesn't want me to miss. So like I'm praying constant God, please, like if there you have something we talked to, me there. Like, don't let me miss this opportunity, please. And Lord speak to me. As much as I love to talk, when it comes to a time to talk to someone about Christ, I love that it's so important that he speaks through me.

So, I was in constant prayer of that, but for the giving thing, took me back to even, mean, I grew up in a Christian home. I grew up around it. I also made mistakes and choices throughout life that put me in positions I wasn't very proud of. I remember like living out of my truck for like months for a time because I was too ashamed to go home, but I couldn't afford anything. And I've been down so low where like someone had to help me and I don't care how like humble of a person you are. No one likes getting killed.

The Professor (50:59.355)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (51:08.839)
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Caleb Bowman (51:09.136)
Don't even if you pay for your dinner if we often go out to eat and I'm okay guys I'm gonna pay you're just like no no no don't like I got it No one wants that but they want to be the one to pay So like I said, I just try to translate that

The Professor (51:20.592)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (51:22.808)
I gotta introduce you to a couple of my buddies. They would gladly let you buy them whatever you want. They're not alligator arms at the dinner table. know, belief and Kevin knows this about me. I've really, my eyes have opened up frankly the last, I don't know, before say 10, 10.

The Professor (51:24.679)
You

The Professor (51:28.625)
We call them the alligator the alligator arms, right like

Matt Considine (51:50.814)
years ago, maybe last May 5, but I would get kind of uncomfortable with folks who have such a devotion to their faith as you do, Caleb. And I don't know where that comes from. Like, I know that's a me thing, but what I do know is I am a spiritual person who believes deeply in paying attention to what the world is showing you and where you're called to help. Now, like,

Caleb Bowman (52:01.04)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (52:15.492)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (52:19.736)
I think I grew up kind of in a split churches and that kind of created a divide in my house. So I have this resistance to religion. when I, I just, I'm so, I'm almost envious of your relationship with Jesus because it's honestly what I would love, but because of my whatever experience, because I can't.

You know, did he turn that water into wine? I got this guy telling me that he definitely did. like, I've never seen anybody do it. But my point being like the, the, of that, the principles of putting into action what you want to see in the world and, knowing deep down that like, it does feel 10 times better to, help others than, than get to give them to get. And I just,

Caleb Bowman (52:51.908)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (53:02.938)
Thank

Caleb Bowman (53:11.77)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (53:13.91)
It was inspiring, man. It did make me think about, you you're stressing about golf stuff or business stuff. like, what are you doing, man? Go help somebody. That's gonna make me feel better every day.

The Professor (53:20.529)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (53:25.572)
Yeah. And that, like that little small sense that still the spirit talking, because if you take people that believe in God, don't live in God, like they have their opinions. So if you take God and the spirit out of it, human is bad or nature or tendencies, your desires are bad. So if you take the God out of it, so you don't have that desire to do good for someone that more code that you have, I should be good to people. So that's gone. So it's still the spirit moving through you. The little tiny gestures you get of saying, Hey,

Like it feels good or this is good to do this, to help somebody. and that's like just a small piece of like that. took, I said, my faith wasn't always as strong. I've been safe for a while, but it wasn't always strong because I was so focused on me and my goals and what I wanted. I was a good person, but I was still like me and my goals. And it took a lot of reading and pray and they finally get to a point where it's like, you know, the happiest you'll ever be is when you're doing something for someone else is good.

The Professor (54:04.305)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (54:23.495)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (54:23.728)
No matter what it is, you do something for your wife, you do something for your kids. Like when just outside from your own good, it is so much better.

The Professor (54:31.079)
Yeah. And to your point, Caleb, that's something we have to fight against daily, right? You look at the pressures of society or that's spinning back to golf. You know, that's what we like to think about golf as an embodiment of life in this case of spirit or the Lord that it's so easy out there in golf to get consumed by yourself, right? By your score, by your performance to feel, to feel a shame when you play bad or when you win and be like, Oh, I'm better than everybody else. Right. That's these tendencies that are there when it's no one.

Caleb Bowman (54:36.655)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (54:59.367)
It's the, you no one gets a shit what you shot sort of thing, right? Like, no, like the idea is the principled idea, especially in the game of golf versus other other sports is to go out and conduct yourself well, right? No matter the circumstances, the outcomes, what other people are doing, what's put in front of you, how you perform, conduct yourself with pride and treat others well on the course with you, right? Like that is the principle that there that.

Caleb Bowman (55:01.903)
Yeah.

The Professor (55:27.139)
should be there no matter what's going on with your game.

Matt Considine (55:30.956)
I'm glad you took it back to golf. Cause I was getting ready to do the same darn thing. A question I get all the time as what we've built with new club, which is different and scares some people, in the, in, in golf, right? Because it's just, it's different than the traditional private club model. But it, two things. I get a question all the time of like these members that host at their club.

Caleb Bowman (55:34.281)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (56:00.588)
They host this group of passionate golfers. There's a vetting process. Yeah, there's a lot of similarity in who they are, but they don't know them and they still host them at their club. You they will know them. They're going to be part of the same membership. They'll get to know. And everybody always asks like, what's their financial incentive? One, like how are you paying them? Like what are you doing? And there's none of that.

And I, I, when I actually sit down and talk to the best hosts, the people that do it, their main answer is it feels good. It feels good to give somebody your every day is that person's bucket list day, best day. Your, your every day is their best day. And I just see it so clearly like, like, yeah, in golf, have our silos and these courses put up their gates and, the way you feel about.

Caleb Bowman (56:34.926)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (56:56.376)
your faith is, I've always been spiritual with golf and it is, it feels like it's my calling to make sure that we're doing that for each other in this game. Like put out a hand, extend an invite. You are more similar than you think. Whether you're a teacher, an entrepreneur, an investment banker, or an MMA fighter, you love this game and there's other people that love it for same reasons, similar reasons, different reasons, but go out and have it. And I'll never, this is last thing I wanted to say was I'll never forget.

Caleb Bowman (57:03.856)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (57:09.36)
Mm.

Matt Considine (57:26.348)
meeting a member of the RNA who wanted to know all about what we were doing on this golf society thing in the US and he's traveled all over the US played all the great courses and and he goes that's gonna be It's gonna be a hit that's gonna people are gonna love it. I was like, so yeah, why do you feel he said? because Being a member of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club isn't any less special because other clubs

and visitors can play the old course. In fact, it is special for that very reason. And that like has always stuck with me. And in golf, I just feel like we have a lot of good people, man. Like so many, you know, so many people that played in that qualifier are great people. But I think we've lost a little. I think we've just been too focused on ourselves as individuals. It is an individual sport. It's a pursuit. It's a game. I get it. But

Caleb Bowman (57:58.393)
and

Matt Considine (58:25.656)
man, I'd love to see a whole lot more of us do a little bit, a little bit more for a broader, broader community like you have in your life, right? Like you have driving to two and a half hours to come play and chill with us. that's, you really hit a chord with me, man, just in life and also golf. I learned everything through golf versus life. I have to learn it there first and then I try to apply the lessons and you're helping me apply some of those lessons to life.

Caleb Bowman (58:36.452)
you

Caleb Bowman (58:46.51)
Yeah.

Thanks for watching!

Caleb Bowman (58:53.296)
That's awesome. And, uh, uh, to me, a cool one was Larry Nelson. So anyone who's paid for golf knows Larry Nelson. Got it as a club, he's like 21. I feel like I could relate. Cause like I said, I started golf super late. I've been playing four years, but we, uh, so we went to the state am this year, uh, country club. He's a member there and he actually was there giving a speak, like giving a speech there versus being at the U S open, which was of course they'd won it, you know,

The Professor (59:01.937)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (59:21.606)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (59:21.776)
It was so cool. He chose his time to be with these young amateurs or so over being with all his buddies, the pro guys the same weekend. But the biggest thing that he said to me was like, they would ask him, somebody that's like, Hey, how'd you deal with the stress on the course? And he was like, well, I wasn't at war anymore. Like me looking for my golf ball is nowhere near as stressful as a bullet flying over my head. Like it hit me. I was like, man, how mad do we get on the course? Because

The Professor (59:43.313)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (59:48.325)
We put all this work in and we're practicing and I get it. We're practicing, practicing, putting a lot of money and time and effort and stuff and for it to just like not go the way you want it to go. So stressful, but it's like any one of us, like I said, Matt, we can all relate to any one's can look back and time in our life where I promise you is more stressful than you hitting a ball into the woods.

The Professor (01:00:06.937)
yeah.

Matt Considine (01:00:08.394)
Absolutely.

Caleb Bowman (01:00:08.578)
it hit me, it's stuck in me. was like, for as mad as I am, yeah, I'm not getting shot at, or I'm not in Cuba barefoot with, with no power. Like there's so much more that could be going on. And I think it helps to just like come back and get back in your space. Like, I'm good.

The Professor (01:00:27.495)
Yeah, those it is funny how this game. Mean so means so much when at the end of the day, it's so silly, right? The game would like when you think about the game of golf, it is a very silly what we're trying to do with this little stick with this thing on the end of it. This little ball pursuing this. We look ridiculous. Our our kids, our outfits are terrible like even the best styling. Even the best styling golf is bad.

Caleb Bowman (01:00:37.349)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (01:00:42.768)
to be.

Matt Considine (01:00:44.534)
We look ridiculous.

Caleb Bowman (01:00:46.328)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (01:00:49.872)
That's how y'all say you need to know.

The Professor (01:00:56.259)
Yeah, it's just amazing that we make, you know, the Robin Williams skit captures it so perfectly. And we make such a big deal out of this game. But like you said, it is in the grand scheme of things, especially when we compare it to obviously war, but another side of like, Hey, the, the actually important things of helping other people, right? Like those things are actually the not stressful in that case, but actually important or the real stressful situations like war. Those are the important situations and we get, we, can make such a big deal and then circling back to your point, Matt, like

Caleb Bowman (01:01:21.252)
Yeah.

The Professor (01:01:26.215)
In America, the version of it is to go into a lockdown version. Like, Oh, I made it when I joined this club and now the doors are locked. I made it on the other side and yeah, I'm going to share it with my friends. But it's like, I'm a part of this now and that, that, that is special. And it's like, man, that's the Kayla, what you brought up in this conversation. Like, man, that's the wrong way to think about it. You know, that becoming a part of that crowd is probably not exactly where you want to be. If I don't know, if you, if you want to give.

Caleb Bowman (01:01:56.593)
Yeah. I think the new club thing that like, that's awesome. Cause like when I played, like I went to every major last year, so it was super cool to go do that. And I love that. But when he's in Scotland, uh, got a chance to play the old core St Andrews and one of the guys, caddy there, he actually moved there from America was like 17 or 18 and he's been a caddy ever since. Like he's been there for like 34 years. been a caddy. It's a super cool guy to me. And I was like, Hey, how much does it cost to like be a member here? And he's like, well, if you live in St Andrews near St. Andrews, it's a thousand years a year.

That's like 800 bucks and you can play any course. And I was like, that's crazy. He's like, said, we have desire that everyone can play golf. doesn't matter who you are. We want you to opportunity to play golf. And I think, like you said, with the new club thing, man, open up opportunities for people. Cause like I said, people in all walks of life that need to get out to the course for some reason, whether it they need their long time, they would just want to be in out the outdoors. Maybe they do want to take us for frustration and hit a drive as far as they can. But I think the new club I did like that is so cool for people to like be able to connect.

Matt Considine (01:02:27.424)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (01:02:54.042)
Cause like I said, we're three guys from three different places in the world who have three different backgrounds, but we can all come in together and connect on like a different level through golf.

Matt Considine (01:03:03.192)
Yeah, there's always, I remember I had a feeling you had been over there. I didn't realize it was that recent, but you know, just the things we're talking about in golf with what we've been doing for a decade now building new club and having these local chapters in Chicago, Atlanta, and some coming soon. those who get to where the game

Caleb Bowman (01:03:10.765)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (01:03:31.352)
began where it all started in Scotland, Ireland, UK, England to some degree. And they are observant people and they like see it. I could just tell I was like, yeah, there's a guy that just gets it. He understands that there's, you know, the most fulfilled happiest people in the world aren't, I don't believe it's not mutually exclusive. You can be one of the most fulfilled people and have a membership at Pine Valley, Cypress Point, know, Chicago golf, pizza, you name it, but.

I think that that isn't an answer for any of them. It's definitely being able to share that game with other community to give back. mean, the RNA does such a, like that's such a requirement for them. Like if you are the crown prince of whatever country, they're not gonna let you in unless you have done something for others in the game of golf. And that stems directly from that town. Cause that whole, we've talked about a ton on this show.

Caleb Bowman (01:04:20.986)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (01:04:21.073)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (01:04:27.926)
It's really inspiring. I got that inspiration thankfully when I was a 20 year old kid who didn't know what he's gonna do with his life. But I knew that that was something that was gonna be at the core of it. That the way these people played golf and lived life and took care of each other and took care of visitors and took pride in their clubs, took pride in their courses, had hard conversations, set expectations. I knew that that was gonna be something I desired and so many others do too. It's just...

You mentioned going to all the majors. How did you do that? Like, did that come from somewhere where you're just like, all right, honey, I'm going to go because you're a married man, right? You can't just.

Caleb Bowman (01:05:06.672)
Yeah. Yeah. Mary for six years. again, for eight years or six. Yeah. Um, but I probably got like the coolest wife. can't say too loud. She'll hear me. Got the coolest wife in the world, man. Um, she's, she's very good about letting me like golf and do stuff. Um, now the trip to Scotland, she got to go. She's like, Hey, I'm going, if you're good. So that was super cool. I don't know. It came out of like, I was already going to go to the U S open because we were doing a guy strip anyways.

Matt Considine (01:05:14.712)
You

Caleb Bowman (01:05:33.297)
And then my buddy hit me one day and said, hey man, I said, this is a great uncle, whatever, is like a member of the Augusta. And he's like, hey, I got tickets. My wife and I aren't feeling too great. Do you want to go? And I was like, no, let me think about it. No, I was like, yeah, dude, for sure. Um, so I think at that point I was like, you know what? I might not be getting into playing all these majors, but I'm going to do my own Caleb grand slam. I'm going to cut all four of the majors in one year. So I did, created my own Caleb's grand slam and went all four. Um, and

Matt Considine (01:05:53.08)
Ha

Matt Considine (01:06:01.08)
That's, so that's, that's recap. Cause this is 2024, right? So it would have been Augusta national, obviously. And then the open at Pinehurst, US open at Pinehurst. And then the open at Trune, Trune. And then what was, missing Valhalla. I missed that in the earlier, what was that? May window. So Valhalla. And that was, who won Valhalla? can't even, Xander. You saw two Xander wins.

Caleb Bowman (01:06:09.444)
Mm.

Caleb Bowman (01:06:12.72)
Turn. Yeah, turn.

The Professor (01:06:17.956)
about how long

Caleb Bowman (01:06:24.878)
Zander. Yeah. That's all to Zander wins. It was so cool.

Matt Considine (01:06:30.392)
What was your favorite?

The Professor (01:06:31.143)
That was his year.

Caleb Bowman (01:06:34.144)
So I'll break them up to like so favorite experience also like a Gus is super cool if you've never been and It's like his own little bubble. It's like they weren't weren't in. Yes, Disney forgot us open for me was most like Enjoyment experience because not only did I get a plague off my buddies like six seven eight and ten I went like one the practice rounds and I like I literally was like stand on sidelines

The Professor (01:06:39.375)
Yeah, it's the best. Yep. Disney for golf.

Matt Considine (01:06:45.108)
Disney for golf.

Caleb Bowman (01:06:59.232)
Talking with Tommy Fleetwood. Like he's just talking to me. We're just talking, hanging out. He's about to hit a shot. I've actually, and he's telling me like, are you going to do and how's he going to do it? Um, same thing. Like talk to Max Holm or, um, Victor Hovland, like just having conversations with these guys, just chatting it up. That was like really cool. But the coolest like look like the coolest Valhalla. Oh my gosh. Like that is so, we're just walking out there. We walked to like, got to go walk across where one of the tee boxes are, where the fairway was.

The Professor (01:07:20.197)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (01:07:27.684)
This fairway so nice. looks like it could be like the most pristine green and the most pristine tea box I could ever hit off and it's a fairway. It was so the course was awesome.

Matt Considine (01:07:37.568)
Scotty, sky Shelford could have used you maybe in that car ride. just have a big body there next to them. Like. Officer talk to Mike caddy, talk to Mike caddy. I'm sorry.

Caleb Bowman (01:07:41.262)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The Professor (01:07:48.839)
What a time to be alive that morning.

Caleb Bowman (01:07:52.002)
Yeah, yeah, that was a crazy morning from a man, Scotty.

The Professor (01:07:56.424)
Oh, we were, I'll never forget Claire and I were in Vegas because see Adele. we're on that time zone at Circa. Cause we were like, let's just hang out the pole, watch the PGA go to a major championship at the Circo hotel there on the pole, just 20,000 TVs. Every view is on, but I wake up and then I took out the phone scrolling through, you know, Twitter. Um, and then like, huh, what? Huh? And like she hasn't woke up yet. You know, I nudge her and I'm like, baby, you awake. goes, yeah. Kind of awake. I'm like,

Scotty got arrested. She's like, what do you Scotty who I'm Scotty, Scotty Shuffler. She's like, no, he could never be arrested. I'm like, no, look at this. He was arrested. That's just wild, wild world.

Caleb Bowman (01:08:36.56)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (01:08:36.792)
That was 2024 was a wild year. What a weird year in professional golf. Well, we're rounded out on time. My only other question for you, there's a lot of folks both in listen to this podcast and are part of new club that are looking to get better. Everybody probably has a shorter timeline than, than their practice plan allows, but you're a plus two handicap and you started playing just a few years ago, right?

Caleb Bowman (01:08:39.907)
Yes.

Caleb Bowman (01:09:00.026)
Mm.

Matt Considine (01:09:07.202)
How the hell did you do that? Give us some notes on the last three years of your life and how did you do it?

Caleb Bowman (01:09:16.34)
a lot of discipline. That's for sure. obviously starting off like anyone, a lot of range time. mean, when you're first starting golf, you need practice. You got to hit balls. got to touch the club a thousand times a day. Like you just got to practice. but the hard part was that switch from, okay, I'm now got like a swing down to now instead of just block practice, like precise practice, I could practice for less time and get more out of it because it was dedicated towards.

Certain things whether it be field or short shot and stuff like that. Um, obviously my swing got pretty decent quick But the biggest change for me, I think was mental Like I changed mentally. I used to get so mad. I would throw my clubs I'm like I was that guy that you didn't want to play with I would I'd hit a ball and I'm mad I'm like, ah, gonna come I do hit one out of bounce. I've been playing for a year and a half Of course, you're gonna hit it out of bounds

The Professor (01:10:06.543)
And we saw none of that on Monday. We were like, yeah.

Matt Considine (01:10:08.768)
That's can't even see you as that person, man. I really can't.

Caleb Bowman (01:10:11.276)
It is so funny because I'm a flip-flop person when I'm practicing, when I'm out there to practice, I get upset. I get mad. But when it's a tournament, don't get, my buddy that we catered for back and forth, he's Zach Lassiter. Huge shout out. One of the guys that I get to this place is him. He's worked with me. My first match ever was against him. I've been playing for golf for like eight months and I signed up like a match play thing. He got me 10 and 0. That's how bad it was. It was a plus five. I don't know what I was.

The Professor (01:10:24.049)
Yeah, great player.

The Professor (01:10:29.415)
Okay, cool.

Caleb Bowman (01:10:40.016)
20, I don't know, but he didn't know. And literally as soon as he made that last putt, he's like, all right, come in, let me show you something. Like, but he was like locked in the tournament, but he really helped me. Um, like with practice being dedicated towards certain types of practice, being dedicated towards certain types of workouts. Um, but the big thing was like, man, the mindset. And so like I said, he's, he's played with me when I was throwing clubs, I've hit like he's been with me and then we get to tournament and I'll hit some best shots and I'm completely happy.

The Professor (01:10:46.616)
toke.

Caleb Bowman (01:11:08.784)
I'm okay, man. Sorry. Good. We're still in play. We'll, we'll go punch out. We'll be all right. Save a par, maybe make a bogey. We get down the round. He's like, that was not how I that was going to go. He's like, I really felt like you would get upset. And I was like, why would I get upset? Like I did, I did what I could. He's like, we'll play the other day. got upset. Yeah, it's practice. I don't like messing up. Like I want to perfect what I'm doing so that when I come out, um, he's, he's the only game that, so you want to make practice difficult.

so that when you play, it's easy. So I think that was a huge help for me to just dedicate and make it.

The Professor (01:11:40.113)
Mm-hmm.

love it.

Matt Considine (01:11:44.192)
That sounds like a golf blueprint card I've had before, Professor. The one, yeah, yeah. Man. But growing up, did you have any background with golf?

The Professor (01:11:48.61)
yeah, he's, yep, music to my ears right now.

Caleb Bowman (01:11:51.917)
Hahaha

You

Caleb Bowman (01:11:59.729)
I didn't know golf was a thing. Honestly, no, didn't know about golf. I didn't know who Tiger was. didn't know. I think...

The Professor (01:12:02.023)
That's last.

Matt Considine (01:12:05.644)
That like just...

Matt Considine (01:12:11.126)
I mean, there's some genetics there or something like to pick up a club and I know it's discipline and I totally respect your point entirely. Like there's no way you can accelerate that fast being that new to golf in that period of time without working hard. But also I just got to imagine, man, those, those pause you got weren't just for hitting people. They're, they're, they're for a whole not golf club. Cause you have a lot of touch and all the things that you would see of a, a

Caleb Bowman (01:12:26.16)
You know?

Caleb Bowman (01:12:31.246)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (01:12:39.384)
you know, frankly, someone's been playing 30 years.

Caleb Bowman (01:12:42.248)
So it was as funny because when I first started, I said, 2020 was probably the first time I'd even like touched a club. seen a golf club one time when I was like a kid. I didn't know what it was. I probably, I probably swung it at like a stick or something. I don't know, but I didn't know what it was until 2020. So I went from MMA. And then I did like a, I played on a, like a flag league. So flag football, we traveled all over the U S student. It's super cool. COVID happened, we couldn't do that. So my buddy's like, Hey, let's go golf. And I was like,

It's yeah, just come on man. Like go Walmart buy some golf balls. We'll go over and go play I really show up with 12 golf balls. I bought just one pack of golf balls and they're like, I don't have a club like that. He goes you bring the balls? Yeah, they're right here. He's like, where's the rest? And I was like dude, it's 12 like I got a lot of golf balls. I lost 12 golf balls like two holes two or three holes. So it was crazy, but I kind of just I'm not fell in love with it.

Matt Considine (01:13:33.462)
Unbelievable.

Caleb Bowman (01:13:38.929)
Difficultness of it, the challenge, like I've always liked things that push me. But I'll never forget. I didn't know the rules. I only played the way we played my buddy. we play scramble. Basically everything was like, could just go drop the ball and hit when you hit a V. And I was like bragging to my brother-in-law cause he was like a four or five handicap. I was like, man, I just shot like 92. I shot nine five. And this was like six, seven months in. And so we go play around the golf together and we're on a family vacation. It's me, him and my father-in-law.

And the first tee shot, goes out right and there's OB. put my club in the bag and I'm like, he's like, what are you doing? I was like, what do you mean? I'm waiting on y'all to hit. goes, no, you got to re hit. I was like, no, no one's going to drop a ball. He goes, that's out of bounds. Like that's stroking distance. So I thought I'm shooting in the nineties and here I'm not playing golf the correct way. I shot a 109.

Matt Considine (01:14:29.654)
Hey, according to new club you are baby, do it. don't do stroke and distance baby. You drop it and keep it moving. Pay some play.

The Professor (01:14:30.503)
Yes, sir.

You were ahead of your time, ahead of your time.

Caleb Bowman (01:14:37.512)
I shot a 109 and I was like furious because here I'm thinking I'm better than what I was and my father-in-law was like hey man looks okay like can't get any worse we play the very next day I shoot a 110 but I remember being so mad and then my sister and I was like hey Kale like but you can't be good at everything because I'm practicing I'm doing a lot of stuff anything I do I go I dive in and that hit me I was like oh

The Professor (01:14:49.137)
like you were wrong. You lied to me.

Caleb Bowman (01:15:02.896)
I'll show you, I can't get at everything. And I dove in so hard, I played my brother-in-law not long ago and it wasn't even close. mean, just, I waxed him and we got back in, his assistant, like, who won? And he was like, you kidding me? Like, Kayla was 10 times better than I am. And she's like, be serious? Like, this has been like three or four years or something like that. And she's like, he's that much better?

The Professor (01:15:03.877)
You can approve.

Matt Considine (01:15:25.4)
That's amazing, man. it's like, it's, there's, it's so rewarding and I get to see hundreds of different golfers that are on their own journey and are, you know, whether it's game improvement or just like playing new places or learning more about architecture, whatever, it's endless. It's so endless. it like, you're probably, mean, how'd you break through? I'm going to ask one more question. Sorry, professor. If we're jamming up schedules here, how did you break through the five handicapped?

Caleb Bowman (01:15:26.586)
This way.

Caleb Bowman (01:15:42.128)
You should.

Caleb Bowman (01:15:48.144)
It's ready.

Matt Considine (01:15:55.064)
to where you are today. Cause I see a ton of guys that accelerate very quickly from like, you know, 15 through 10, they almost like blow past 10 and they get to five or six or like that single digit handicap. But that next jump to me from like, at, can't, it sounds total egomaniac. Well, I'm a kid when I learned the game, but like, I don't remember what that jump was. I have no context to it.

Caleb Bowman (01:16:01.745)
Hmm.

Caleb Bowman (01:16:06.01)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (01:16:10.864)
Mm.

Caleb Bowman (01:16:19.503)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (01:16:24.002)
but like you just lived it. What was that jump like? It seems like you were tracking this from the very beginning. What did you, did you have to do anything differently to get yourself to that next level?

The Professor (01:16:29.989)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (01:16:34.24)
So going from the fire to like the scratcher to a plus so that came from like I think it's professor We thought it's got faucet decade golf. It's huge thing understanding Not only the first game of like what's good but understanding that once once you're out of the fairway once you're in the rough It's like automatically you're looking at like, know bogey just it's just there. It's just statistics that you can't find the math It's one understanding like if I'm out of play, it's okay like try to get back in minimize

Matt Considine (01:16:41.964)
Mmm.

The Professor (01:16:44.775)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (01:17:03.726)
I literally think the first time that I shot even par, I told myself, was like, all right. And I was like, no doubles. said, no matter what I do, I'm going to try to make like, if I'm at a plate, how can I make the easiest bogey in the world? want a tap in bogey. And it changed the way that I looked at the golf course when I was out of position. I didn't try a crazy this or that. I looked, okay, where's the best place to miss me? How can I make a tap in bogey? And I realized that doing that gave me a lot of opportunities to say poor. Sometimes I kept, sometimes I didn't, but

I didn't make any doubles and I made powers when I should have made bogeys. but I think the biggest thing, obviously short game, I don't care who you are, how good you are, how far, think statistics shows games showed us like obviously guys here long way. There's some top players in the world. You can definitely got to have that, but inside of one 20, know, and how to score, knowing how to play two fat parts of the green and rely on your short games. So like that helps me. So I practice so much every single day.

Matt Considine (01:17:34.232)
Yeah.

The Professor (01:17:52.187)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (01:18:00.913)
I go up and I practice and I start off with my 60, my 56 and my 50 and I have to hold out to two chips every single with every wedge. I can't move on until I do that. And it's training me one different shots, but to seeing balls go in being comfortable with, with the way that I chip or hit a wedge shot. Then they all my putter range. I think those two things along with the understanding that like you're going to mess up. How can you make the mess up? Not so bad. I think that's.

The Professor (01:18:08.743)
Mm.

Caleb Bowman (01:18:28.91)
the best way to get someone from like a five down to a scratch.

The Professor (01:18:32.807)
Yeah, I think you're spot on the ceiling at that level. Mental is where is what's keeping you from bussing through typically rarely do I come across a player where it truly is a talent thing. It's like, no, you're three and you want to be a scratch. All right. You just got to clean these things up. Be like, like you said, easy. If your bogeys are easy, it's really easy to then clean up a couple more shots. then it's just margins and just don't make stupid doubles.

Caleb Bowman (01:18:50.672)
Mm-hmm.

Caleb Bowman (01:18:58.768)
Yeah, I think Matt said that, you know, don't compound when you do so bad. Like I said, go to jail. The first thing you're to do is get out of jail. You know, I mean.

The Professor (01:19:01.745)
Yep.

Matt Considine (01:19:05.88)
It was a reminder. I can run on some emotion sometimes on the golf course. And those are, you know, these irrational decisions that you see that gap in the trees and, know, you think you got that. yeah, I got that. I got that. it was fun teaming up with the professor and listening. I know you guys were talking some strategy out there as well, but, Kevin, if you don't want to be my four ball partner anymore after our failed attempt, I understand.

Caleb Bowman (01:19:18.03)
Yeah

Caleb Bowman (01:19:32.208)
you

Matt Considine (01:19:35.584)
I would love to have you as a caddy though, if I do anything individually, because you are so disciplined in the decision-making process where I just, sometimes it still gets the best of me. And I, least I have the awareness now. I have little dots on the scorecard when I am trying to pull off the thing that is irrational or, you know, not the percentage play. It's why I match plays more suited for me. But, but that, that was nice to have that influence on me out there from time to time.

The Professor (01:20:04.999)
Well, I'll tell you what, it means meeting people like Caleb again, I'll tee it up with you.

Matt Considine (01:20:09.748)
Amen to that. Yeah, I know we kept you a little longer here, Caleb, than we when we promised, but I just wanted to say thank you, man, for playing with us on Monday. The universe, your faith, whatever it is, it put us together. I had such a nice time meeting you and even a better time talking to today. Just thank you for coming on and sharing a little bit of your story, which is an awesome one that golf needs more more of. I'm very

The Professor (01:20:16.167)
Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (01:20:36.592)
Mm.

Matt Considine (01:20:37.928)
even your COVID experience, I'm so reassured about what golf in America is going to be because meeting folks like you, like truly, you know, people that just picked up the game in 2020 and are already here on the nerdiest golf podcast around, man, like, that is, that is just a beautiful thing, I think. And, and it's credit to you, man. So thanks for being with us.

Caleb Bowman (01:20:52.592)
Okay.

Caleb Bowman (01:21:00.922)
man. Thanks for having y'all. like I driving two and a half hours was a bit of a bummer for me, especially the traffic when I got there. like you said, you never know who you're going to meet or who you're going to pair with or play with and stuff. y'all opening, make me feel welcome right off the rip to join y'all for your group. And it was, I was blessed to meet you guys and I think it's been awesome and I look forward to the next time I can tee it up with you guys and stuff. So that's awesome.

Matt Considine (01:21:25.112)
We'll make a next one for sure. I'll, uh, forward ball 2026, baby. I'll give you a call. Uh, Kevin, you loop, loop for, I'll loop for you guys. How's that sound? Let's just try, let's just try different scenarios of that same. Yeah.

Caleb Bowman (01:21:27.042)
Sure.

The Professor (01:21:27.783)
That's right.

The Professor (01:21:31.462)
You

Caleb Bowman (01:21:31.876)
Thank you.

Caleb Bowman (01:21:36.964)
and

The Professor (01:21:39.623)
See which one gets us out.

Caleb Bowman (01:21:41.121)
You go from a five to scratch go loop for some people every now and then your mentality changes so quickly when they hit a shot From you being the one who hit the shot you learn real quick that that shot's not that bad

The Professor (01:21:45.223)
That's it.

The Professor (01:21:52.657)
That's right.

Matt Considine (01:21:52.952)
So true. Do you think the USGA would be fine with that strategy? By the way, would if we just said they like here's your pairing and we're like, I don't know We're good. We got a marker coming He only lives he only lives 16 hours away, but he'll be there We're good And professor thank you to you as always for making this show It's the highlight of my week getting to talk to you man and doing that four ball experience sincerely was was such An awesome. I think you said it

The Professor (01:22:01.074)
That's it.

Caleb Bowman (01:22:01.158)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'll there.

Matt Considine (01:22:21.64)
in the hours afterwards as we're hanging out, losing together is so much more fun than winning solo. And I felt that as well. It's a bonding experience to be able to compete with others, to play team golf. So thank you, you man.

The Professor (01:22:37.275)
Hey, glad we finally did it. Won't be the last time.

Matt Considine (01:22:41.128)
And another thank you to everybody listening. If you're not a subscriber for our show, that makes a huge difference, we found out. So subscribe wherever you like to listen to the backdrop. You can like us, can rate us, review us on all those services out there. It does support, know, Kevin and I coming together to do this thing and tell these stories like people with people like Caleb. And if you want to connect with us to all our info is in the show notes. Caleb, we're going to add your

info to the show notes so people could reach out, man. feel like you're going to make a lot of fast friends potentially. and, and finally, thank you to Titleist for, supporting this show, supporting New Club Golf Society. I believe we, put ourselves in a couple of positions to make that qualifier happen on Monday. And a huge part of that was looking down at my tools from Titleist. They're certified fitters who have helped us find

the right mix of equipment, both the professor and I, you know, there was nerves, there was doubts as any qualifier will bring, but my equipment was never one of them, whether it was my Vokey SM10 wedges, or it was my T100 T-Series irons, or the GT drivers and metals, all of it was very reassuring that I had the right stick in my game. So find your gear, find your right equipment, you can head over to Titleist.com.

The Professor (01:23:48.358)
No.

Matt Considine (01:24:06.256)
and you can find a certified fitter. We can't recommend enough. Go through their process. These guys know what they're doing and there's a ton of them now out and all next to the woods. So help them get your dialed and thanks again to our friends at Titleist.

Caleb Bowman (01:24:19.086)
Yeah, I think your driver made me want to switch mine.

The Professor (01:24:21.585)
That's the driver as good as I've ever seen you hit it. And I tell you what the wedge game that's dejectory on the wedges. It's changed my mind. I will. And I will have you back just due to that.

Matt Considine (01:24:21.856)
I'm doing that, I-

Matt Considine (01:24:30.008)
You guys, I'm blushing, stop, stop. It really has been a transformative equipment year for Maddie Boy and you can too. So thanks again, Titleist. Go check out some of their lines over at the website, titleist.com. Gentlemen, thank you. See you on the next one.

Caleb Bowman (01:24:49.787)
See ya.