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This podcast is dedicated to changing the automotive industry for the better, one conversation at a time.
Whether you're a technician, vendor, business owner, or car enthusiast, we hope to inspire you to improve for your customers, your careers, your businesses, and your families.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:01]:
Are you serious?
David Roman [00:00:03]:
Yeah, you are. Don't do the radio voice, though. Don't do the radio voice.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:12]:
Hey, I don't know if you know this, but if you search rw, it pulls up a, pulls up a review page for a local medical center. And I just want to point out that if you needed to go to that medical center, you should not look at the reviews first. Really nervous. They got a 2.2.2 .2 Google rating, though.
David Roman [00:00:52]:
Here. I can start if you'd like, because I got it pulled up.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:55]:
It really shouldn't come as a surprise that our industry continues to suffer under a penumbra of dishonesty and distrust.
David Roman [00:01:04]:
Oh, hold on. Back up. Penumbra.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:11]:
I don't know the, the whole joke everybody talks about. He had to have a dictionary or thesaurus.
David Roman [00:01:21]:
Here's the thing. He might be using penumbra on a daily basis, but why not just use number suffer under a number of dishonesty or penumbra? I guess that wouldn't have worked. Under a lot of dishonesty. That wouldn't work, dude, penumbra. Come on, it's Dutch.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:46]:
He has to like, he has to add his little flair to it. You know what I mean?
David Roman [00:01:50]:
That's not flair. That's like I'm going to dig up some word that's been extinct since 1922.
Lucas Underwood [00:02:01]:
While some may argue that the public sentiment is shifting to a more positive perception, a cursory Google search of the question are auto repair shops trustworthy? Reveals an overwhelming contradictory result. Articles entitled how to choose a mechanic you can trust? Or similar titles abound. Social media personalities frequently tout what's wrong with the auto repair business. Identifying problems in the industry is easy. In the words of some friends who are combat veterans, the sheer volume of what is wrong represents a target rich environment. How did we get here? What is the genesis of this reputation that yokes us to public skepticism and cynicism? What attitudes and business practices do many shops employ in their daily operation that reinforce this negative stereotype that runs counter to the interest of those they profess to serve? I'm not referring to deliberate dishonesty, such as recommending a service with the intent of making money absent a legitimate need. Although we need to know that this type of activity exists, it is the exception to the rule. Yet this perception of selling that which is not believed to be needed is common in the public sphere.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:11]:
What I'm referring to is both common and harmful. It's called self interest in polite circles, but I'll just call it what it is greed in the guise of accepted business practice. The answers to the above questions require a shop owner to identify their core philosophy regarding the very nature of business and their motivation to become an owner, how a business owner views the role his business plays in the community and responsibility they bear to those served, including employees. In my experience, owners can generally be divided in two distinct different groups, service driven customer centric owners and money motivated sales centric owners. Make no mistake though, owners who are the latter are.
David Roman [00:03:54]:
The problem is that exclusively the two groups, would you say?
Lucas Underwood [00:04:00]:
Um, no, no, I, here's the thing is, we can, we can put a box around anything we want and say that's the group right in. When we look at it from this perspective, I think that it is possible that that's the two groups when you're saying that.
David Roman [00:04:19]:
But the problem is what are their motivations? You have money, what do you call it? Money motivated sales centric owners that then say, well, the reason why I'm trying to collect this money is because I can be a good steward of it and then I can use that to build churches in Guatemala. And therefore the tactics that I take to obtain the money are justified.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:47]:
The ends justify the means. Yeah, I'm sure there's, there's other ways to approach that. Or look at that. There's, there's many, many motivations for why somebody may do what they do.
David Roman [00:05:00]:
We're trying to break it down into.
Lucas Underwood [00:05:02]:
The base motivation both SDCC owners and MMSc owners have three things in common, the need to be profitable, the need to provide service. Although they frequently define and measure service differently, and the need for growth, what differs is the hierarchy of importance each assigns to these needed components and how they measure successful the goals for customer service driven business or a customer service driven business can best be illustrated by envisioning a Venn diagram comprised of sales, community service, and corporate culture. With customer advocacy as its core, the SDCC shop owner acknowledges that they have a moral obligation to be trusted, a trusted, unbiased source of sound automotive information. Irrespective of the potential profit, they acknowledge and accept the mantle of moral responsibility that comes with their position. They realize that their role is akin to that of a fiduciary whose job is to manage the person's money and property for their customers benefit, not their own. They believe that by being of service to meet their customers needs, sales will follow. They and their employees are first and foremost advocates and educators for the clients, not commissioned salespeople hoping to achieve often arbitrary sales goals.
David Roman [00:06:18]:
Will the sales always follow?
Lucas Underwood [00:06:21]:
I think so. Yeah, I. I really do think so. I think that the volume of sales. Right. In other words, like, if we're going to look at this and say, how does this affect total numbers? Could. It comes back to the Mike Allen argument. Right? What Mike Allen has, this new model he's adopted within his shop is going to drive substantially more clients to his door because he's telling them what they want to hear.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:48]:
Right.
David Roman [00:06:49]:
Okay.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:49]:
And so that is giving him more opportunity. It's taking opportunity from other shops who are not telling them what they want to hear. Obviously, Mike cares about service. He's not. I'm not saying he's one or the other of these, but my point is.
David Roman [00:07:05]:
Is that I think you're just throwing him under the bus.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:07]:
Of course I'm throwing him under the bus. It's Mike. Did you expect me to do something.
David Roman [00:07:12]:
Different or Mike Allen, I mean.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:14]:
But I guess my point in saying that is that the tactics that many of these other types of businesses use are far more effective at driving client numbers to the door. Doesn't necessarily mean it results in a higher revenue than a shop that uses other tactics.
David Roman [00:07:32]:
So when he says the sales will follow, he's assuming that. I guess the assumption is there will be enough sales following that the business will be sustainable. And that may not be entirely true.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:49]:
Okay, what do you think about that?
David Roman [00:07:54]:
If you take that tactic from day one and exclusively take that tactic, in other words, I'm not going to. He has, in particular, an aversion to sales offers. So he wants marketing. But in order to entice somebody to show up to your shop, you have to give something up. And he does not ever. He doesn't discount his products. He doesn't like. It's a whole thing with him.
David Roman [00:08:26]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:08:27]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:08:27]:
And so that works when you've been there for a long time. It doesn't work when you're brand new trying to grow a business. You have to get yourself out there, and that's going to cost money, and you have to get a return on that money going out. Otherwise you're going to run out of money very quickly and that'll be the end of that. So while that does sound good, some concessions have to be made. You have to start making some concessions. You have to have an acceptable close rate because it can't just be me telling you what you do. What?
Lucas Underwood [00:09:09]:
There has to be guardrails for the operation of the business. You have to hit specific targets to be sustainable.
David Roman [00:09:17]:
But I wouldn't call them guardrails. It's almost like there have to be key points that you go after in the end. It can't exclusively be an advocacy standpoint. It has to be.
Lucas Underwood [00:09:37]:
Why can't it exist with the advocacy standpoint?
David Roman [00:09:41]:
Well, that's not what he's outlining here. He's saying that if I lay everything out, the sales are good. Just gonna be a natural byproduct of me kind of laying everything out.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:02]:
You don't call your clients with, with.
David Roman [00:10:04]:
I don't, I don't. I don't do that. And we do, but I have to get them in the door. So, like, I. We give stuff up. I don't do cheapy oil changes, but we do have a discounted oil change or we have like, a coupon that you can get $10 off or something like that. We use something like that. We use, like, free break inspections.
David Roman [00:10:26]:
We do that. We have offers out there, and the idea is to get them in the door. Once they're in the door, I need to get them in the door at a high enough volume that I can hit my close rate percentage because once I hit my close rate percentage, then I know that we'll have enough business in there. But that raw number has to still be there. It's not even a percentage. It's like I have to have x amount of cars, and I know that across the board I'll hit this close percentage. Everything will fall in line. I have to drive those numbers, and it's not, hey, I'll let you know what's wrong with your car.
David Roman [00:11:03]:
It's, hey, here's this free thing I'm going to give away, and hopefully we can do some business because I do want to take care of the vehicle and you want to have a nice, safe, reliable vehicle.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:15]:
We have to have a compelling argument for them to come to you.
David Roman [00:11:18]:
Compelling offer.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:20]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:11:21]:
Not an argument.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:22]:
Well, are, you know what I'm saying, though? You have to.
David Roman [00:11:24]:
Well, no, that's the distinction, though. I think that's what he's saying. I think he's like this. What I'm offering here is unbiased advocacy, and I don't think that's enough. That's a compelling argument. You're trying to compel them with this argument and no offer. And I think you have to have the offer there because they don't care about the argument. It sounds good, but if that were really what most of the public wanted, you wouldn't have firestones.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:57]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:11:58]:
You see what I'm saying?
Lucas Underwood [00:11:59]:
Of course. And we've had that discussion before. Is that giving the consumer what they want versus what they need are not always the same thing. The consumer would much prefer this model that Mike Allen's using or this model that. That Firestone or whatever uses. Right. This turn and burn model of give me what I want, don't tell me about everything that's wrong with my car, you know, tell me about the big things. You know what I'm saying? I think that's what the consumer would prefer.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:28]:
He says, let's speak of the MMSD owner. Imagine a dartboard with its nested concentric circles. The bullseye for a money motivated, sales centric owner will be sales. The next adjacent ring is service. Sales 1st, 2nd service or service second. The focus is foremost on making the sale, and any other concentric ring is subordinate to sales, and that, sadly, includes the customer. Any benefit to the community or to employees must be thought of strictly in terms of return on investment. That is a true fact.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:01]:
Right. A lot of these businesses, if there is no ROI, they won't do it. I say that we see a lot of those big shops doing employee dinners and having, you know, retreats and doing all kinds of stuff where they get their people out and do things.
David Roman [00:13:20]:
That is a flexible.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:22]:
Is it a flex or is it. Do they expect to see Roi from it? You think that they.
David Roman [00:13:28]:
No, I think they know there's no roi in it. There's no Roi in a Christmas dinner. Where's the return?
Lucas Underwood [00:13:37]:
I think there might be. I think there maybe if you did.
David Roman [00:13:40]:
A study over 20 years and said, ten years, we're going to do Christmas dinners, ten years we're not. And then what's my retention rate?
Lucas Underwood [00:13:47]:
My. You know what my roi on it is?
David Roman [00:13:49]:
What's that?
Lucas Underwood [00:13:50]:
I get to eat awesome food. I mean, that's really the extent of it. I say that, though. I don't know that that's necessarily true. I think that, um. I think that they see retention improve when they do that. I think that they see a.
David Roman [00:14:07]:
They'd have to. That's what I'm saying. They'd have to track it. But you're talking. You have to have your control, so somebody doing it or not doing it, and then you'd have to have your. Your variable doing it or not doing it, and then you'd have to track it over years. And you'd have to say that, yeah, we've seen a 10% higher retention rate whenever you do Christmas dinners versus not doing them. And that extra 10% retention rate because a loss of an employee, that number most business larger businesses, large corporations, they know that number.
David Roman [00:14:41]:
Losing an employee and, or replacing an employee costs x amount of dollars. Yeah, yeah. And that number is astronomical. And so they go, well, if we do the Christmas dinners or we do the retreats, I can keep a technician for that year versus, you know, out of ten technicians, I'm going to keep one extra one there where I'm going to lose one that year if I don't do this stuff. And having that one technician in place there that year is going to make me an extra $250,000 at the end of the year. So that's a killer Roi. They'll do that ten times that number. Especially small organizations, even, like msos that have three to six shops, they don't have those raw numbers to be able to sit down and say, hey, we're going to do this.
David Roman [00:15:29]:
They might. And even then they might roll out an employee program. Four hundred one k a wellness program. We're going to bring back massage person, massage therapist on Tuesdays or whatever. Right. They may introduce something like that, run it for six months. Retention is the same as it was before. But even then, the organization has to be big enough for them to be able to see like, hey, we have x amount of turnover anyway.
David Roman [00:16:04]:
Did we see the turnover drop down? And because we have ten stores, so we need to see the turnover drop down underneath because we introduce this new program, otherwise we're just going to kill it. So it's. They still do those things. I think deep down they do it because they. They want to. I'm going to make people. I. This is my personal opinion.
David Roman [00:16:34]:
This is my personal opinion. This may not be true at all. I don't really know. In my mind, I think they feel bad about how they treat their employees and the motivations behind their actions, and they then do these big retreats, dinners, whatever, as a way to show off to the world that, hey, I'm. I'm not a bad guy. Look at this great dinner and look at all these Christmas gifts we gave away. I'm not bad at all, am I? There you go. I think deep down they feel terrible about what they're doing.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:15]:
I mean, do they, though? I mean, I. The people that I would look at and say that are in this situation, right? They don't.
David Roman [00:17:25]:
They.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:25]:
They don't think at all that they're doing anything wrong. They don't. They don't look at this like there's a problem with what they're doing. They're. They're. They're convinced they're doing what's right. It's like there's coaching companies that teach some kind of egregious stuff, right. And one of the things that they teach, not.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:43]:
Not so much that they teach, but some of the things that they talk about, um, they explain that you're really doing what's best for your technician by doing this. You're really doing what's best for the other person by doing this. And what it's going to do is it's going to ensure that the business is healthy so you can take care of them. It's going to ensure that you're profitable so you can pay for their insurance. It's going to ensure all these things for the employee. This is really just a transaction. We're a. We're a business, not a family.
Lucas Underwood [00:18:11]:
And so our responsibility is a fiduciary responsibility, not that of advocacy, not that of.
David Roman [00:18:17]:
I don't. I don't have a problem with. With somebody saying, we're a business, not a family. Your number. Get in line. You know, this is how we're gonna make. We're gonna make a lot of money. The employee is gonna make a lot of money because it's purely commission.
Lucas Underwood [00:18:33]:
Right.
David Roman [00:18:34]:
And everybody wins in those. And if you. If you go in understanding that and don't expect the woo woo Christmas dinner, we're gonna give away some flat screen tvs. Look at this. If you don't. If you walk into the situation understanding that this is how it's going to be and you choose to do that, I don't. I don't begrudge the business running it like that. I don't begrudge the employee going there.
David Roman [00:18:59]:
You can't have it both ways. So you can't bitch about the fact that they never pay for my training. There is no roi to send you to vision.
Lucas Underwood [00:19:07]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:19:07]:
There is no ROI for them to do that. There isn't. I'm sorry. It just. It's really difficult. You know what they can do? They can send you to a Saturday all day class at, like, ln one train, L. One training to Keith. They can send you Keith on a Saturday.
David Roman [00:19:22]:
They'll pay for that. It will cost them way less. It doesn't happen during the work week, and you will come back with a specific skill that they can then start selling, and there'll be an Roi there, assuming you stay there that long. So then it becomes a, hey, you need to be here, or you need to pay us back for this trip. If you're not here for more than a year, they can break that, all that down. But you can't complain that they didn't send me division. It's like, dude, that's not what you signed up for. The problem is the ones that try to toe the line, they go, hey, it's great to work here.
David Roman [00:19:57]:
We love each other, we're a big family. But also you're commissioned and if you don't hit your number, we're going to fire you. Yeah, well, hold on now. Which one is it? No, no, no, it's, it's fine. We're going to fire you if you don't hit your commission numbers because we need to make money. But at the end of the year, you're going to get a flat screen tv. It'll be great. We'll have a big dinner, we'll show it off on social media.
Lucas Underwood [00:20:19]:
And don't worry, we're not going to fire you because clearly you're going to have all the work you could ever need and you're going to be able to hit your numbers. No worries.
David Roman [00:20:27]:
No, no. If you can't hit your numbers though, they're, they are going to fire you. They do tell you.
Lucas Underwood [00:20:31]:
Yeah, but they, they're also going to tell you. I don't think they tell them.
David Roman [00:20:34]:
I think they just, uh, they set that expectation. They say this is, we expect you to hit this. Oh, okay, great. Hey, you haven't been hitting this. If you don't hit this, we're going to have to let you go. Well, what happened to the, the woo woo dinners and we were a family and all that? Yeah. Anyway, you're not making us any money. You got to go.
Lucas Underwood [00:20:55]:
I could not be that person. I can see the utility in being that person. If all you care about the money, the sales centric owner disavows any responsibility or moral obligation to their customer. Aside from remaining within acceptable legal business practices, their myopia allows them to view their business solely as a profit producing machine focused on car count and average repair order. They consider employees nothing more than components in a machine. In the words of one well known industry coach, you're building a business, not a family. The technician names and build hours will be posted for all to see with the hopes of spurring competition. Code words for finding more things to sell.
Lucas Underwood [00:21:35]:
The sales centric owner employs salespeople as service advisors. These salespeople need not be knowledgeable about automobiles. What they need to know is how to sell. This focus on, on sales, seemingly to the exclusion of all else, is at the heart of our lousy reputation as an industry. What do you think?
David Roman [00:21:58]:
He ended it abruptly. This needed to go on further. Needed some.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:03]:
There may be more. I don't know.
David Roman [00:22:05]:
No, that's it.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:06]:
That's it.
David Roman [00:22:07]:
That's it.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:09]:
Hey, you know him. He always likes to make a statement.
David Roman [00:22:14]:
Nathan, is there a. Continue reading? Where's the. Continue reading? I don't.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:19]:
Continue reading? Yeah, there's a button there. Says continue reading?
David Roman [00:22:21]:
But there's no button. That's not a button, right? It doesn't go anywhere. Oh, no. Keep scrolling.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:27]:
Ah, there it is.
David Roman [00:22:27]:
We needed to get past Mike Moleski.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:30]:
Mike Molaski. Is he in there?
David Roman [00:22:33]:
Yeah, he's there. Look, he's on mine.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:35]:
No, he's not on mine. It's a different adjustment. Internal conflict is inevitable in any team. It often stems from diverse personalities, competing goals. In the high pressure shop environments in which our teams operate. However, the ability to effective, effectively mediate and resolve these conflicts doesn't just preserve harmony, it cultivates a high performing culture. By actively fostering an atmosphere where you address challenges constructively and collaboratively, leaders enhance productivity and strengthen the resilience and unity of their teams. This skill set, therefore, is not merely an asset, but a critical component in the toolkit of anyone aiming to lead a business to its fullest potential.
Lucas Underwood [00:23:19]:
Building on the foundational understanding that effective conflict resolution is essential to achieving high performing culture, it becomes imperative for shop owners to equip themselves with a structured, thoughtful approach to navigating disputes within their teams. The journey from recognizing conflict to mastering mediation and conflict resolution is both challenging and rewarding.
David Roman [00:23:40]:
That's not. That's a different article, dear. You're reading Bennett how to master Conflict resolution and build a high performance.
Lucas Underwood [00:23:47]:
That's the only article I see after I know.
David Roman [00:23:50]:
I'm telling you, he ended it abruptly. This focus on sales, seemingly to the exclusion of all else. Is that the heart of our lousy reputation as an industry?
Lucas Underwood [00:24:05]:
I don't know that I agree with that. Is it just that I think it's a bigger picture than that?
David Roman [00:24:19]:
What are you looking for?
Lucas Underwood [00:24:21]:
I'm not looking for anything.
David Roman [00:24:24]:
You playing wordle on your phone? What are you doing?
Lucas Underwood [00:24:27]:
No, I was getting an email from a client.
David Roman [00:24:30]:
Why are they emailing you?
Lucas Underwood [00:24:32]:
It just goes to everybody.
David Roman [00:24:35]:
And you read it? Yeah, because I got to be involved in metal and absolutely everything ever.
Lucas Underwood [00:24:41]:
Something like that. I just saw my name. He sent me the email. In other words, he put my name at the front email.
David Roman [00:24:48]:
So I thought maybe you thought it was important. Turns out it's not. No. Anyway, I thought it'd be spicier. It wasn't that spicy.
Lucas Underwood [00:25:01]:
Yeah, no, it wasn't that spicy. I don't think he's necessarily wrong.
David Roman [00:25:05]:
I don't think he's wrong either.
Lucas Underwood [00:25:07]:
I think, I think it is a huge part of the reputation we have as an industry.
David Roman [00:25:13]:
So if he, he wants to take the old school family doctor approach to automotive repair as opposed to big corporate hospital pushing the pharmaceuticals onto people because they get the kickbacks. And that's how the hospital makes a lot of money. But one model is been very successful and the family local doctor is gone. It hasn't survived.
Lucas Underwood [00:25:52]:
And that is exactly the role that he's speaking of as that advocacy repair shop in a lot of ways.
David Roman [00:26:00]:
Yeah. You know, what is that old school family doctor?
Lucas Underwood [00:26:03]:
Is that, is that an indication that's no longer what the consumer wants?
David Roman [00:26:14]:
I don't know. Does the consumer. Here's the problem. Like, you, you have, if you, if you talk to anybody in like health insurance, they'll tell you that 80% of the costs are being funneled to 20% of the people. In other words, everybody pays in. But out of everybody that pays in, only 20% use all of the benefits that they have and they end up paying. Everybody else ends up paying for that 20%. Right.
David Roman [00:26:46]:
And so that 20% ends up driving the entire market. And that 20% may just want the pill. There's no pill. That's the lie. That's the big lie. Nobody ever tells you that there's no pill. There are just, it's just a trade off. The pill will just may fix this one thing with these other trade offs.
David Roman [00:27:11]:
You may not care about those other trade offs, but understand that that's all you're doing.
Lucas Underwood [00:27:16]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:27:19]:
And I don't know that necess, it's not good. We've turned the entire country into this like over medicated blob of people. Right. So that's a whole problem there. So obviously, maybe we haven't seen the end of what, of what it's going to end or the end of that whole situation. Maybe we're just 1015 years away from seeing the end result of what the healthcare system has turned into. And in the automotive world, I think we're seeing what being overly sales focused has created a huge technician shortage, a lack of skills amongst technicians, and everybody's like, oh, it's just lack of training. Lack of training.
David Roman [00:28:18]:
Lack of training.
Lucas Underwood [00:28:20]:
Man. I just. Here's the thing is, I think that the technician piece, while some of it may be related to this, I think that the technician pieces is bigger than that. I think that it's just like a bank account that doesn't have any money going into it. And if you keep withdrawing money from the account, and so the account is the people that are currently in the industry, and the money flowing into the account is people entering the industry, and the withdrawals are the people who are leaving the industry because they're unhappy or retiring.
David Roman [00:29:00]:
Attracting kids is not. We talked about this. Like, who cares that we're not attracting 18 year olds? 18 year olds don't know what the hell.
Lucas Underwood [00:29:08]:
I don't care. I don't care who we're attracting. My point is, is that everybody's, everybody's.
David Roman [00:29:14]:
Perception, everybody's perception of what they need to get into the industry is I need to go to some tech school. I need to drop 30, 40, $50,000 in tech school, I need to buy $200,000 in tools, and I need to go get on a lubrack.
Lucas Underwood [00:29:30]:
But that's.
David Roman [00:29:31]:
Hold up.
Lucas Underwood [00:29:33]:
That's great. I don't have an issue with that. But I think.
David Roman [00:29:36]:
You not have an issue with that.
Lucas Underwood [00:29:38]:
No. No, I'm not. I don't have an issue with your statement. I'm okay with your statement. I agree with your statement. Of course it is. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying it's not true.
Lucas Underwood [00:29:48]:
What I am saying, though, is that I think this is bigger than that. I think we're, I've said this over and over again. We're focusing on this like it's an automotive program. It's not our problem. It's not an automotive problem. It's h vac. It's like they become a plumber and they need a handsaw and a sawzall and, and chances are the boss is going to pay for it, but they're not going into that either. There's a, there's, there's more to this.
Lucas Underwood [00:30:16]:
And, and I think this is the, the crux of the american worker. Right.
David Roman [00:30:21]:
What are they going into then?
Lucas Underwood [00:30:23]:
They're not, they're not going to work.
David Roman [00:30:25]:
So there's no technician shortage in Germany?
Lucas Underwood [00:30:29]:
There is a technician shortage in Germany. There's a technician shortage there. There are skilled worker shortages globally.
David Roman [00:30:36]:
Okay, so that's, then. Then that's across the board and always going to be the case 100% of the time.
Lucas Underwood [00:30:43]:
Something shifted. Something changed.
David Roman [00:30:45]:
No, nothing changed. Nothing changed.
Lucas Underwood [00:30:47]:
The numbers show that the trade worker shortage has been increasing. Right.
David Roman [00:30:53]:
The only, it's increased because demand has increased. So the shortage has not. The, the gas when did they, when.
Lucas Underwood [00:31:03]:
Did they start the campaign for work smarter, not harder? 76.
David Roman [00:31:08]:
I don't even know what that campaign is.
Lucas Underwood [00:31:10]:
They. There was a presidential campaign that was started, not a presidential campaign, but a. One of the presidents. And once it was in 76, they started a campaign that said, work smart.
David Roman [00:31:19]:
Jimmy Carter. Go.
Lucas Underwood [00:31:20]:
Go.
David Roman [00:31:20]:
You know, didn't Jim go get a die?
Lucas Underwood [00:31:23]:
He did. Go get a four year degree. Go get a four year degree. Go get a four year.
David Roman [00:31:27]:
So you want to stop this, at least in the United States, but here's the problem is you want to stop this in the US, you get rid of, you get rid of government backed student loans, okay? Get rid of it. And all of a sudden, because they know there's no backing, financial backing, to hand somebody $100,000 to go get a liberal arts degree, they're gonna go, hey, you need to go get a technique, be an automotive technician. We'll look for that.
Lucas Underwood [00:31:55]:
You know what's interesting, though? So interesting, recently I was in a meeting where the chancellor of our, of app state University was present, and she was sharing that they have moved a tremendous number of programs to the skilled workforce. Programs, okay? Now, if education does what education has always done, they try and go where the money is, right? They try and go where the demand is, and they try and follow that demand. But there's a number of four year schools that are looking at skilled trade programs like nursing and police officers and firefighters and hospitality management, and they're shifting in that direction. So if those schools are shifting in that direction and that is becoming their primary offerings as opposed to secondary offerings, doesn't that mean they're trying to move in that direction and they're trying to educate for what we need students for? I really do believe higher education has been trying to focus more on what, where the demand lays. Whether or not those people are actually going into that, I don't know.
David Roman [00:33:01]:
I think that they are. They have to grow because they're a business. And so they keep expanding offerings to more absurd degrees because they, they're like, we need get more people in here because we need to keep growing. And if we're gonna keep growing, we got to keep diversifying our offerings. So now you have a degree in all of these things that are not applicable to the real world. They keep expanding, expanding, expanding, as opposed to say, hey, we're going to grow our nursing program because we need more nurses, so we're going to expand that out. Instead, they're like, we're going to add a degree to this in this absurdist thing. And we're going to make that a whole thing that we can offer, because you never know.
David Roman [00:33:46]:
There's somebody that's going to want to borrow $150,000 to go get a degree in this stupidity. I don't know that they're helping. I don't. Maybe the community colleges, I'll give that maybe because I think they're more pragmatic. But the, like, the private schools. Get out of here. Private schools don't care. They just.
David Roman [00:34:10]:
They need more students. They want that government backed money coming.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:14]:
So what's the solution?
David Roman [00:34:16]:
Stop the government backed money. I just said that. Get rid of all of what?
Lucas Underwood [00:34:20]:
But I mean, overall, what, how, as an industry, right. Do you think the solution is, is that we all become advocates for our clients and. And push in that direction?
David Roman [00:34:31]:
The. The sales centered business model has created. The technician shortage is exasperated, let me say.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:41]:
There you go.
David Roman [00:34:41]:
Exasperated technologies.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:43]:
I agree with that.
David Roman [00:34:45]:
And has ruined our reputation overall. I can agree with Dutch on that. The nuance behind it is that the shop owners justify the means. And so they're like, hey, I'm just doing it so I can get the money and do good with it. Or like what dude said, he's like, I expanded my business because I could give more opportunities to more people, because what we were doing was great. No, I think that mindset is prevalent amongst shop owners that take that approach and say, I got to sell, and I got to sell as much as possible because I can give more opportunity to my people, give them better raises, give them more money, and I can do more good in the community to the detriment of the consumer and the. The perception of the industry, because I don't think it matters to them. I don't have the right answer.
David Roman [00:35:50]:
I think it's just where you feel what's right. Is it right to destroy the industry's perception and do whatever you have to to get the consumer to buy from you? Because in the end, you'll be able to do x, y, and z with the money. Is it. I don't know.
Lucas Underwood [00:36:10]:
That goes back into this discussion of giving the consumer exactly what they want. Right? Charging them more for giving them exactly what they want.
David Roman [00:36:21]:
Charging them more. Is it more?
Lucas Underwood [00:36:24]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:36:25]:
I wrote, in my newsletter, I wrote an article, and I warned people, I said, if you walk into a shop and there's a massive aquarium in the lobby with tropical fish, it's wildly expensive to build that aquarium and to buy those fish and to keep them from dying, that has to be paid some way, somehow. If in their introduction to the shop, they're showing off their aquarium in their nice leather chairs, their wall of flat screen so you can enjoy your entertainment while you wait for your car to be serviced, you need to understand that that's being paid for some way, somehow. It ain't the owner gifting those things to the business. They have to be paid somehow. And that's usually in however they're setting up the invoice. You're paying for it, dear. And so I don't know what consumer in their right mind. I mean, I'm sure there's a few, but I don't know what consumer in their right mind would say, you know what? I'm okay paying a little extra because I can look at this aquarium while I'm here.
David Roman [00:37:47]:
Would you rather go be, go do something else, go home, maybe go, go back to work? Like, why don't you just jump in this clapped out loaner and drive it back and just leave the car here? Like, why do you need to sit in the lobby?
Lucas Underwood [00:38:02]:
You know, it's interesting, because I don't disagree with you, but I also see the, the variables between me and you. Like, you would never get a nice hotel room because it was a nice hotel room. You'd rather stay in motel eight in Cracktown?
David Roman [00:38:18]:
No, no, I don't want to stay in motel eight in crack town.
Lucas Underwood [00:38:21]:
I'm just saying you would.
David Roman [00:38:22]:
But I'm okay staying at the courtyard. I don't need to stay at the JW.
Lucas Underwood [00:38:26]:
I'm just saying you would prefer to look at the elevator shaft for less money and be able to go eat at a nice restaurant. And me, I like a nice hotel room. I do like nice restaurants, too. And we would both prioritize nice restaurants over having the money to pay our bills. The thing is, is every consumer is different. And their values and the things that are important to them are different than. And, you know, we talk.
David Roman [00:38:55]:
The problem, though, is that you're talking about. You're talking about going to a restaurant. We went to Lefou frog last night. Was it, like, the prettiest building you've ever walked into?
Lucas Underwood [00:39:04]:
It was delicious.
David Roman [00:39:06]:
The food was delicious, wasn't it? And the service was great.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:09]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:39:09]:
Friendly, right? Shouldn't explain the specials, but other than that, just gave this the chalkboard.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:16]:
The one lady did to the chugboard. Throw the bread plate at you, though.
David Roman [00:39:20]:
She threw the bread plate, yeah. The night before, we went to a beautiful restaurant. The food was not as good. Yeah, it was not as good. Now, here's the thing. You can have a beautiful facility if.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:35]:
When you show that restaurant, just so everybody knows.
David Roman [00:39:38]:
I thought you got to call them out. The steak was great.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:41]:
Yeah, it was.
David Roman [00:39:41]:
Everything else was.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:42]:
No, I mean, I think some of our. I think some of our. Some of our listeners listen just to see where we ate at. So I want to make sure.
David Roman [00:39:49]:
I don't think anybody listens to see where we ate it. Right. But I don't think anybody cares anyway. I'm just saying, you can walk into a beautiful facility and you are there for the steak. That's what you're there for. You want a great steak. You want a nice experience. That's it.
David Roman [00:40:06]:
That's it. Yeah, I need nice, friendly service, piping hot bread. The bread was legit.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:12]:
It was. It was.
David Roman [00:40:13]:
You didn't need any of it. Did you not like the bread?
Lucas Underwood [00:40:15]:
No, I love the bread.
David Roman [00:40:16]:
It hurt my feelings that you weren't, like, tearing, destroying that bread.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:20]:
I did. I ate, like, three pieces of bread.
David Roman [00:40:23]:
Did you?
Lucas Underwood [00:40:24]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:40:24]:
I thought you only had one.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:26]:
No, it was just that you ate six pieces of bread, so when I got done with my three. You ate three more?
David Roman [00:40:32]:
It was so good. Anyway, they come out, you know. The perfect example is Shanahan's in Denver.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:39]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:40:40]:
Shanahan's in Denver was awful.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:43]:
Yeah, it was terrible.
David Roman [00:40:44]:
Was the food good? Yeah, it was okay. It was good. It was expensive. It was way more expensive than the place we had gone to eat the day before. It was more expensive, and it was.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:54]:
Not nearly as good. We were a double eagle. Uh, we were at the double eagle the night before.
David Roman [00:41:00]:
Shanahan's was all glitz. All glitz. It was a beautiful building, beautiful facility. Valet, Bentley's parked up front. It was a whole. A whole shtick. And then the food comes out, and you're like, the food's just not that good. That's my point.
David Roman [00:41:17]:
You walk into the repair facility, and it's a beautiful aquarium, beautiful chairs, nice facility, swimming on the edges, and you're like, you know what? This stuff here shouldn't matter. It's. Can I get the car fixed?
Lucas Underwood [00:41:34]:
Well, my point. My point for saying that was, is that I think that a lot of times you and I try and approach this with an open mind, and we try and share perspectives from an open mind. We really don't know how the consumer feels. We don't know how the technician feels. We don't know how the other owner feels. We don't know. You know what I mean? Like, we don't really know what's going through somebody's head. We don't know what they've experienced that led them to this belief system that they have.
Lucas Underwood [00:42:01]:
We don't know how they got there. Like, for instance, I'll use Mike Allen as an example again. Right. Mike Allen. The one of the primary reasons that I genuinely believe he does some of the things that he does. I'm not saying he does anything wrong. Don't, don't take it like that. It's just a lot of the things he does is about growing that business.
Lucas Underwood [00:42:20]:
Why is it so important to him? Because he told his dad, like, hey, I'm going to take this to the next level. I want to make this, I want to honor you with this. I want to make this a great thing. It's important to him.
David Roman [00:42:31]:
Sure.
Lucas Underwood [00:42:31]:
And so he puts more emphasis on growing it because of the, the things that have gone before him and the decisions that were made. And he wants people to know, I can do this, right? I'm capable of this. And I'm sure at some point his dad probably said, son, this business won't ever do that, or it won't ever this. And so he's like, no, I'm going to show him. I'm going to do this. I'm going to show him I'm capable of this. I want him to be proud of me, you know? And so that creates a different belief system in him that makes him do things differently than me. And you would do it.
David Roman [00:43:00]:
Yeah, I could see that.
Lucas Underwood [00:43:01]:
Like you. And it's the same with my family business, right? Like my parents businesses is. It means different things to each one of us. Three brothers. Each one of us three brothers have different values and believe in different things and look at things in a completely different lens. And so it's, it's interesting for me because especially with the family business, right? Like you, you started your business from scratch. I started my business from scratch. But when you take and you put three people looking at a business that was started by somebody else and you see each different perspective and how they would do things completely differently because they experienced something different that got them there, right.
Lucas Underwood [00:43:38]:
It's the same thing with technicians. It's the same thing with clients. Everybody's looking for something different based on their needs. If we're serving a consumer and the mass of consumers want somebody to tell them what's wrong with the car without charging them, charge them substantially more money to fix the things in red so they get just the things that are absolutely urgent with the car fixed and.
David Roman [00:44:02]:
An aquarium in the lobby and aquarium in the lobby.
Lucas Underwood [00:44:04]:
And that's what the consumer wants. Then, as a byproduct of that, if we want successful businesses, we have to follow the consumer where the consumer goes. And so Dutch's belief system came from a very different time. Dutch's belief system came from a very different, uh, belief system is a core than what many Americans have today. I don't disagree with Dutch's belief system. I love Dutch's belief system. Is that where the american consumer is? I don't know.
David Roman [00:44:35]:
That's a good point. All right.