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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Wait until you see or hear, I guess, what we got today. I just I have to tell you. From our friend BJ. Oh my goodness, BJ. There are some gates from Kansas City so that we don't miss the flavor.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Oh, and there's this. What is this? A wristband. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:It's a wristband that says just breathe. That is pretty special. And a card. I can put that by my desk. It says, remember when stressed, don't scream and don't shout.
Speaker 1:Our brains work much better when we pause and chill out. That's funny. I know exactly what I'm gonna do with this. Thank you so much, BJ. They also, oh my goodness, sent a beautiful new art journal, an actual sketchbook with sketch pencils that are gorgeous, and I totally wanna cry because during the pandemic, getting new art supplies is absolutely almost impossible for us just financially and as far as risk of exposure.
Speaker 1:And we have also used art for coping skills and for staying connected with friends. And so we are using up our sketch pencils and our paints and running out of supplies. And so this I can't tell you how perfect this was and what perfect timing, and we are so, so, so grateful. BJ, that was beyond kind, and I just I'm speechless. I know that's shocking.
Speaker 1:It's a podcast, but I I just I can't even I can't even thank you enough. That's a they're beautiful pencils, and it's a beautiful notebook, and I'm very excited to get to use them. Thank you. We also want to thank some supporters for the podcast. SISL has been a regular donator all this year, and we are so grateful because this year has been especially hard.
Speaker 1:But because of this, we've been able to keep the podcast going, and I'm really, really grateful for your support. Truly, there are not words that we can give to say how grateful we are for your continued support. Thank you, Sissel. Laura has also donated all year this year and we are grateful for Laura as well. So a shout out to Laura.
Speaker 1:Truly, you're really making a difference and keeping this possible. Jennifer as well is a regular supporter who has helped so much. And truly, you guys, you have no idea. We have been able to continue paying for the hosting of the website and the podcasts live so that they can all be accessed as new survivors find them and as clinicians find them because we have these regular subscribers to provide that service. Thank you so, so much.
Speaker 1:Crystal has also donated all of this year you guys, especially this year with the pandemic. I can't even tell you how much this means to me because I know that even $5 or $10 or $20 means so much during this time when it's so hard to get work or continue paying bills and there's so much chaos and disruption with everything going on, and it is a powerful gift that you are helping us give. It is a powerful gift you are giving to the listeners when you support this podcast and help us keep going and continue providing this, not just what's happening now on the podcast, but all of the episodes so far, we're able to leave up because we're able to pay for the site hosting and everything for the actual data of the podcast. And I am really, truly grateful. Thank you, Crystal.
Speaker 1:Anne Marie has helped support the podcast even since last year. And again, those long term subscribers and supporters really make all the difference in making it possible for us to be able to sit down and have the modality to share with you what we're able to share. If it were not for these people, it would not be possible. And I'm going to keep saying that because I really, really mean it. We are so, so grateful.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Anne Marie. Mason has been a supporter all summer long, and we are grateful to have new subscribers and new supporters. So thank you, Mason, and welcome to the club. We're so glad you've joined us. Abigail has also joined us this summer and this fall.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Abigail, for your support truly. I mean it. It makes a difference. We are so grateful for you and so grateful to be getting to know you and appreciate your support in this way and just wanted to give Abigail a shout out. Tegan, I hope I'm saying that right.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I am. Tegan, oh my goodness. Please email me so that I know how to say your name because I want to thank you. Tegan is a one time supporter that made a donation that helped us renew the website for this year so that we will still have a podcast in 2021, and so that we could get a new microphone ordered because we've already worn out one, because we talk all the time. And so because of Tegan's help, not only were we able to take care of business and keep things going, we are in better shape for next year.
Speaker 1:And I am so, so grateful, Tegan. There are not words. I can't tell you how much your gift meant to us and what a surprise it was and how grateful we are. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Tegan. Nancy is another new supporter, and we are grateful. Welcome, Nancy. Thank you for your support. I wanna give a special shout out to Lisa, who has been a consistent supporter for two years for the podcast.
Speaker 1:And not only that, but through that, we've gotten to know Lisa a little bit. And one of the people that we're able count on as a friend and that we're learning to get to know and really appreciate the consistency of that, both of the support and the developing friendship. I don't know about you guys, but for us, one of the things that makes friendship difficult is not feeling safe. Right? But what we're learning is that part of what helps things feel safer is that stability and consistency over time.
Speaker 1:And Lisa has done that for us in a hundred ways. I can't even tell you. That would be its whole own episode. But I wanna give a shout out to Lisa and say thank you truly for being kind and for your generosity for these two years. I really appreciate your support, not just of the podcast, but for us as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you. A shout out to Holly, who was actually on the podcast once, if you remember her sharing her story about having DID, But she also has been a supporter of the podcast since February. And so happy anniversary, Holly. Welcome. I'm so glad to know you, and I so appreciate you sharing your story.
Speaker 1:Thank you for your support, Holly. We love and adore you. Julie is a therapist, I am thinking because it has her counseling office listed, and I'm not sure, and I don't have permission to say the name of the counseling place, so I don't want to without permission. Julie, if I can say it, just send me a note and we can give you a shout out properly. But her clinical office has supported the podcast for the whole entire year.
Speaker 1:And I just want to thank you and seriously, seriously tell you what an honor that is and how grateful that is and how grateful we are because we feel so vulnerable, especially amongst colleagues. And for you to recognize as a clinical person, the value that our podcast has to offer and to recommend it and to share it and to support it in that way means everything. It means everything. Thank you so much, truly. Thank you, Julie.
Speaker 1:Reva says, discovering your podcast this year has made an enormous difference to my own journey. So many thanks for all that you share. Thank you for your support of the podcast and for including a note so that we could give you a shout out. I so, so appreciate it. Tina also gave us a big donation that helped us get ready for 2021 and be able to pay the fees to renew the hosting of the podcast.
Speaker 1:You guys, we've done more than 200 episodes already, and that's a lot of storage, and that's a lot to keep for the website hosting. And we have so many listeners now that it requires a higher level of hosting to be able to support so many listeners. And so we would not still have the podcast if it were not for Tina from Michigan. So everyone needs to say, good job, Tina, and thank you for the donation truly to help support the podcast and keep it going. David gave a one time donation with his letter.
Speaker 1:He said, thank you. We have been going through a very difficult time in our life as we have taken on the end of life care for our father. Oh, David, we can totally relate to that in our own way. I don't at all mean to take from your experience or assume that we understand your experience, but we have a taste of that in our own way. And I just want to say that I hear you and I feel that, oh, it's so heavy.
Speaker 1:And we are thinking of you and hope that you are well and caring for yourself as well and have good support while you go through such difficult things. David says, Responding to us on the podcast, the validation and acceptance was more completely overwhelming positive way. Our system cannot thank you enough for reaching out and helping us feel safe. You are a gift to the world. Oh, David, that made me cry.
Speaker 1:I can't even tell you. Thank you so much for sharing your story. You guys, we have some supporters who only give $5 every month. We have some supporters who give $10 or $20 whether that's $5 every month or $20 every month or $50 or those big donations that help us cover things that we are not able to provide for ourselves because we're in the pandemic and because we have six children with special needs and because life. It is such a hard thing to take time away from the children and take time away from work and be able to keep the podcast going to organize our family in a way that we're able to do these big fancy interviews that are so powerful in how real the people are and what we all learn from them, that between those experiences, which we do not get paid for, to the practical implications of trying to host the podcast and keep it going financially for the technology and the things that we need.
Speaker 1:If there has ever been anything that we said that was even close to helpful or pointed you in the right direction of where you could get more information about something or helped you feel more connected or normalize some of your experiences, all of these things that you give us credit for, we would not be able to do without these regular supporters of the podcast. And so I know it's never kosher or cool to just sit around and talk about money, but I want to thank these people who have been regular supporters of the podcast, especially through the difficult times of the last year. And it doesn't even matter about the amount they have given. Those of you who write in and encourage us so that we can keep going, those of you who have sent amazing items either to encourage us or to tell us about your part of the world or to express some of your parts or some of your system or to just communicate with some of ours. All of those things together make the podcast what it is.
Speaker 1:And that's why I wanted to stop and talk about it for a minute because it's not just us. It's you, people who listen, people who share about the podcast, people who send specific episodes to specific people to recommend it in that way, people who have access to researchers and clinicians that we would never get to talk to in any other way, Providing that to all of us is a powerful and healing and connected thing to do, and it means everything. So I just want to take a minute and thank you for your support and for helping us keep it going because it has been very, very difficult this year. And thank you. I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 1:We also have some messages we want to read from social media. And you guys, we will be the first to admit we are terrible at social media actually. We are functioning well enough that we are trying social media again just a little bit. The Facebook page that we tried to put up, we have taken down because it was just not safe to have. That's all I can talk about for right now.
Speaker 1:It was not safe for us to have up. So the Facebook page for System Speak is still down, and I'm really sorry about that. I know that a lot of people were interacting there, but for right now, it's just not possible. We are sharing a little bit on Instagram at e Christianson PhD and the same username on Twitter, e christiansen phd. That's e c h r I s t e n s e n p h d.
Speaker 1:I honestly just because we're very careful about respecting internal responses right now, I don't know how long we're able to keep those. But we've tried four times, and this is the first time we've made it past a week. So maybe that's a hopeful sight that we can sort of manage that for some expression, but be a little more open about who we are. That is our legal name and a little more integrated, if you will, in presentation and giving access there, but also still a little bit coded just for safety. So I'm actually not going to put that in print anywhere, and I probably won't even announce it again.
Speaker 1:So if you're listening to this particular episode and you got that information, you're welcome to follow us there. Maybe that was a foolish thing to do and just messed up everything. I don't know. But I'm just trying to be honest and share. We do have basically the same things there.
Speaker 1:But I think part of the issue on Facebook is just needing to keep that entirely separate from family and friends that don't know everything, and because of our children and their biological families, we really have to be careful about some of those things. So it's not just internal safety, it's also some external safety, but there's just so many layers to it. Do you guys feel that even if you didn't have the same children we have and even though you have a different survivor story than we do? Do you guys struggle with that sometimes as far as safety? Like, I'm not just talking about the vulnerability of sharing or vulnerability hangovers after you shared.
Speaker 1:I mean the actual, how much can I say am I actually allowed to say without someone reporting me to so and so or without someone turning me into such and such? Like, it's really, really tricksy, and it makes it difficult to actually feel safe when you aren't entirely safe yet. Does that make sense? Like, we are safe. I don't mean you have to worry about us, but because of the connections within our actual real life world, we have to be really careful with some things.
Speaker 1:And so it's a fine line that what we have found, at least for us, and it's new, so I'm not promising anything, but what we have found is that the better we get at this whole capital s thing, that the better we are at keeping healthier boundaries and protecting inside things privately, more privately, and yet also being able to express ourselves almost like filtered so that it's different than just being locked down, like, with brick walls before, which turned out to be a problem, and that's a whole different episode. But at least with at least with some more expression and yet also safely. So I've not resolved that entirely because I miss that world of the other circle of alters where they could say anything or be anywhere or be on the podcast and none of it be a big deal. I know this year there has been less of that obviously because we've had to be more covert and that's really been a struggle both for keeping the podcast going and for our internal experience. So that's still being navigated, and we will talk about it more later.
Speaker 1:Hope. I hope we figure it out, but part of what's helping is that we're still in therapy and have a good therapist still and are learning to negotiate some of our real world experiences from the last year. But, anyway, those are places we're willing to share, places we're trying to share safely without having to also run away. But I'm just gonna say straight up, like, I'm gonna protect us, and I'm gonna keep us safe. And it turns out, ironically, please don't laugh at me, but it turns out that what no one ever told me was that part of what keeps us safe is actually connection.
Speaker 1:I know. Right? So it turns out that some expression is necessary to be healthy, which maybe is obvious to the rest of the world, but I'm just figuring it out. Okay? So I'm trying this as a as an effort in part to honor what needs to be expressed and in part as a transition through quarantine back into the world, except not because we're still in quarantine.
Speaker 1:But, you know, like, we've been in lockdown for almost eight months now. It's the October when I'm recording this, and it's been hard. Like, in some ways, it's been perfect for us. Like, no one comes here. We don't have to go anywhere.
Speaker 1:We're totally in our own world. But you know what? It's gonna like, I'm gonna lose my mind because it gets really blurry between what's real and what's not, what's internal and what's external. And if we did not have the husband and the children here, I think in this place everyone inside would just be out whenever they wanted, and it would be all kinds of blurry and slippery, and that's fine when no one notices. But when you have to show up for a job, you guys, I missed, like, three meetings this week, and it was so embarrassing.
Speaker 1:And no one says, hey. You're DID, and if you wanna keep your job, you need to function. No one says that outright, but you know. Everybody knows because of the podcast. Like, they know.
Speaker 1:Okay. We know you're actually multiple, and we're assuming and trying to give you the credit or the benefit of the doubt that you're well enough to work. But if you're gonna work, you gotta show up to your meetings. No one says this, but I'm feeling it. I'm aware of it.
Speaker 1:So somebody's gonna have to tell time. Somebody needs to know when to be where, and someone's gonna have to figure out how to do Zoom on purpose. Because if we're going to do classes and we're going to be volunteering and we're going to be participating in meetings, we have to show up when we're supposed to show up. So close. You guys, so close.
Speaker 1:I feel like one thing that's happening with therapy and one thing that happens as you heal with DID is that you actually become more aware of how sick you are. It's almost more humiliating at the same time as it is liberating. Is that a thing? I don't know. Okay.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, part of it is that we just don't carry our phone with us. We're not on the phone. It's actually a problem because we have all this land now, so our husband will, like, text us from the shop, like, you have a shop now when you live in the country. And so his office is out in the shop, and he'll text us from that, but we won't see it. So he's irritated.
Speaker 1:We don't have it. And our friend is like, we need more connection to be healthier, which it turns out she's right. And we have figured that out, but that means we have to pay attention to our phone because pandemic. So it's a fine line between, like, it's great and healthy, we're not attached to our phone, but we also can't use it to avoid attachment with people. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:I feel like there's a whole podcast episode just in that truth bomb. We're gonna have to figure that out. So let me say it again. It is good and healthy that we are not attached to our phone, but we cannot use that to avoid connection with people. Bam.
Speaker 1:That's like our lesson of the week. Okay? But anyway, some people have sent messages that I wanna respond to. We have some emails to read. The ASWrite system says, my system and I have been listening to the podcast for maybe two or three weeks now, and I'm not quite caught up because of school and family keeping me busy, but I just listened to the episode asking for help with Em talking about her hospital trauma, and I felt compelled to send a message.
Speaker 1:We have hospital trauma too, and this episode really resonated with us. I understand her pain and I hope that it has gotten better. I'm going to keep listening and keep up with it as long as I can. My point being, I understand you are making the podcast and I understand what she goes through and she's not alone. It made me feel less alone for her to basically vocalize what I think and feel.
Speaker 1:What a wonderful example of connection. Thank you. Kate says, I just finished listening to your latest episode where you responded to emails. I want to thank you and the husband for the update on your family. I was wondering how your daughter was doing.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you guys, she's still doing fantastic. They told us it would give her six good months for sure and maybe a good year with possibility of a good eighteen months before we had to do that surgery again where they completely rebuilt her airway. And right now, she is doing incredible. She is eating by mouth. She is running around and playing.
Speaker 1:She's able to play outside and still breathe. She is not on oxygen during the daytime. She is doing incredible, as in seriously the best that we have ever seen her since she was born. So I'm so grateful, so grateful. They're not words.
Speaker 1:I'm so grateful. But yes, she's doing fantastic right now. Thank you. That is very sweet of you to think of her and to ask. Kate continues, I discovered your podcast about two months ago and have binge listened to all the episodes.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, you guys, there's so many. Still when people ask me about the podcast, I tell them it will make more sense if you start at the beginning. But I'm starting to feel bad about telling people that because there's so many now. And I don't at all assume that anyone listens to all of them because I don't know, cray cray. There are so many that I want to go back to and listen again.
Speaker 1:Oh, sister, I tell you, I feel you, I hear you on this, and let me tell you, this month, October for us, is like our new top 10. Like, the shock of it all, literally so a year ago, we did the whole episode about getting in the boat and trying to get to the other side, and that journey has been hell. Let me just tell you straight up. It has been terrible. It has been the hardest year of our entire life and we have been through some stuff.
Speaker 1:I don't say that lightly, but getting to the other side of that has absolutely been incredible and amazing and so good for us. And we are in a whole different place. Like everything is different than a year ago, even more than what we've disclosed on the podcast yet. I don't even know yet how to explain it, but everything is different than it was a year ago. And when I start to regress or slip backwards or get anxious or scared or think I'm going to lose that ground and I'm gonna lose my capital s, which so far is still the best way I can explain it because I don't have words for it yet.
Speaker 1:The experience is so new. But when I am starting to get slippery on that capital s and I need to reclaim that, I have to go back to the episodes in October of our response to the English teacher episodes and the this is me episode and the betrayal trauma episode. I have to go re listen to those three and then I'm good again. I'm solid and I'm focused and I know what's going on and I'm intentionally making choices and I'm aware of things. And so that is really helping me, even though we are only just now like getting to the process of being able to dig into the work because therapy is awful, you guys.
Speaker 1:Don't let people tell you, oh, therapist is sweet and good. No, it's terrible. Therapy is hell. I hate therapy. But we are back in it, and we have a solid therapist we've had for several months now.
Speaker 1:And we're doing really well with her, and she's staying, and we're gonna be able to stay connected with her. I don't wanna mess that up or jinx it by saying so because you know we went through a nightmare of therapists this year. But we're good and it makes such a difference, I can't even tell you. I am not yet, because of the pain of the last year, not yet ready to just let everybody run loose or to explain everything from other perspectives yet. I don't know if I will or if we won't.
Speaker 1:I honestly can't answer that, but I get what you're saying about listening to episodes again. There are several of that, even besides the October ones, that we really have to listen to over and over again to keep our head on straight. So I hear you. I get you. Kate shares, We are a system living with DID in Canada.
Speaker 1:Hearing about difficulties in finding a good therapist is so relatable. Our therapist was still qualifying as one when we found her three years ago. She is amazing. She was willing to let us pay around half her rate as we could not afford it otherwise. We are so grateful that we found her.
Speaker 1:She now does EMDR and has let me borrow her copy of Coping with Trauma Related Dissociation. Oh, good. Good, good, good. You're on the right track there. Chloe, a little, would like John Mark to know that having a pet on the inside who is not an altar is possible.
Speaker 1:We have a cat. What? A pet on the inside who's not an altar is possible. We have a cat. What?
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. Okay, I'm gonna have to read that sentence like a hundred times and we'll come back to it. To Sasha, thank you for starting the podcast. Do you have a favorite type of cheese? We enjoy brie and cheese curds.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's funny. That's a good question. We actually like really stinky soft cheeses and French cheeses because we live there, and they have amazing food. The freshest food in the world is in Africa or Australia. The richest food is in, like, Italy, and the cheeses and breads of France cannot be beat.
Speaker 1:And the solid legit breakfast of England is the way to go. Like and then every day in the Midwest, I eat Asian food. And so not really. But that's what I would pick if I go out because I can get the vegetables, and I can get the protein beans and things. And I can't tell you.
Speaker 1:If we could travel the world for every meal, I would tell you where to go, and I could plan the best courses and tell you which restaurants to eat at in which cities. Because when you travel, what a privilege thing. What a pre pandemic thing. What a pre children thing. You guys, our lives are way more boring now that we don't fugue out all the time.
Speaker 1:Can we just say that out loud? Is that a thing? Okay, focus. After listening to your friend who is a medical doctor talk about the conference on the podcast, I was reminded of something that I learned in a health psychology course. It was about how the difference between biomedical model and biopsychosocial model.
Speaker 1:I'm wondering if you are familiar with it. Oh, absolutely. Because you know therapy. So we do a lot of that biopsychosocial stuff. But those are those fields and the clinicians who are aware of that research, that's starting to blend a lot more as neuroscience confirms a lot of what we knew clinically intuitively, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And so that's interesting to watch it unfold. The rest of the email is pretty private, and I just wanna say to Kate that I read the to rest of the email. Thank you for sharing with us. And yes, some of those things are some topics coming up on the podcast to be addressed. So keep listening and thanks for writing in.
Speaker 1:It was good to hear from you. Amy says, good evening from Texas. I have not been able to listen to your podcast for a while due to needing to pull away and do some self care. Oh, no kidding. This has been intense, and I'm really sorry the podcast went from super fun to super stressful, but that's what happened in the pandemic, I think.
Speaker 1:Anyway, Amy says, I'm glad you took some time too to care for yourself. We who consider ourselves your podcast friends are always cheering for you, want what's best for you, and we'll patiently wait or if or when another episode airs. But I have caught up in the past couple of weeks, and all I can say is you are one of the strongest people I know. Thank you so much for sharing your vulnerability, struggles, and triumphs during this unimaginable spring and summer. I can't imagine the inner and outer struggles you all went through.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad your daughter was able to get her surgery. What a little warrior she is. Homeschooling six kids and juggling all the Zoom classes is a feat not many can boast. I'm also very glad that your husband is doing better. Also, having to move a large family so quickly is not an easy task.
Speaker 1:Now I know why John was so confused on the July 4. Oh my goodness. That was so embarrassing. Yes. Felt really embarrassed by that episode.
Speaker 1:It was embarrassing, but also it was a good reminder to go back to our journal. We don't have the notebooks anymore except that our friend except that someone sent us some, but we do have a bullet journal that we have been trying to use a little bit. And in that, we have caught up a little bit. Like I opened it and there had been nothing in it since COVID happened in March, since the cancellation of the ISSTD conference and everything just stopped in the journal. And so part of it was something we were so depending on helping keep us oriented was kind of taken away from us, and that's a whole different story.
Speaker 1:But reclaiming that has been really helpful and given us a way to document. We have these friends now, this is our therapist now, here's what's happened in our friendships, you need to know about this about our friends, you need to know this about the children, you need to know this about the husband, you need to know this about us, Here's what to say. Here are promptings for conversations. If you're trying to keep up that capital s and there has been switching, here's how to cover with that. Like, we're trying to manage that differently, but it has definitely been difficult.
Speaker 1:But we are more oriented to the new place and to moving and all of this. Kate says, once again, you constantly show how very strong you are. I personally have been so encouraged by you all. Your transparency about your setbacks, struggles, fears, show time oh, I read that as show time because we have a husband in musical theater. That's funny.
Speaker 1:Show time and time again how it is possible to grow, evolve, and heal. Your poem about butterflies has specifically spoken to my husband and I. He has been battling severe depression, which he is medicated by addiction. He is okay with me sharing this information. He went to rehab earlier this spring and has found a great psychiatrist and a wonderful therapist, and he's doing so much better.
Speaker 1:I played him the poem about the butterflies, and he said that is perfectly describing his healing process. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing it. Amy, I'm so grateful for your message and helping us to know that what we share is helping and is working and that we need to keep doing it because it is terrifying to do and it's so scary to put out there and it's so vulnerable for us.
Speaker 1:But for whatever reason, this has unfolded as part of our process. And so we do just keep going, but it's obviously so vulnerable to do this process and to try to keep going that it's stories like yours that help us keep doing what we're doing. And so once again, it's like what we said earlier. It takes all of us as a team, all of us together, whether we're talking internally as a system or externally as the collective of survivors and supporters and allies and clinicians, it takes all of us working together for all of us to heal and to grow and to become more than the limitations of what our trauma has done to us. And I'm so grateful for you sharing your story.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I know that that looks different for everyone. When we had our therapist for three years, that meant driving to be able to see her, which sometimes made for a very long day, which required the support of our husband as he was still home with the children or anxious about us on the road, or it required connection from friends who were able to make sure they stayed checked in because we physically could not hold on to the connection by ourselves without that. And it's through that kind of solid checking in that we were able to develop our first friendships. And when we tried to get a therapist in Kansas City, but it was in a smaller building and the waiting room was super crowded and everything was feeling overwhelming trying to even get in the door, that therapist offered us opportunity to just meet at a different entrance and in the parking lot and get in a different way so that we weren't as overwhelmed by that.
Speaker 1:There are so many options and flexibilities for caring for each other And now we have a therapist that we have met with for telehealth because of the pandemic, but also who lets some of our sessions that we pay for so that we aren't anxious about boundaries or overusing her or abusing her or crossing any lines because we cannot, at this point, physically risk putting our therapeutic relationship at risk. We're so fragile right now because of everything in the last year that that's such a big trigger. We are able to make sure that we are paying for her time to read. We are able to make some of our telehealth sessions be through messaging and writing so that we can share things we can only share through, like how we used to use notebooks, except now it's on the computer, but actually processing them because we have the increased safety of doing it through writing over time instead of in a required fifteen minutes where it takes us half of that time to even start talking. To now with friendships where we can literally process with friends and say, I think actually for our friendship to be healthy, we need more connection.
Speaker 1:And to hear them say that to us so bravely and being willing to teach us because we don't know and we're not aware of the time that's missing in between. Also us being able to say, we can do that and we want to do that and we want to be vulnerable in that way, but we have to increase safety in these ways because for us neurologically, this is what happens when you have connection. It's positive and it's healthy and it's good, but because that has always been danger in the past, any kind of connection came with the risk of danger, this is a result of those attempts. And so to keep that side of things safe, we also have to do this. Like, I'm just saying there's so many creative ways to connect, to reach out, to invite, and hearing your stories that it means something for you helps so much because it means we can keep going, and it means that it's worth something, and it means that it's helping someone, and that's what makes it worth it.
Speaker 1:Because that's not just accepting our trauma, it's not even just healing our trauma, it's helping others heal from trauma. Because the trauma doesn't get to win, and we don't even have to be identified by our trauma. We can change, we can grow, we can be identified by our ability to receive help and comfort for trauma, while also being empowered to help others in theirs. And that is a powerful, powerful thing, I think. Thanks, Amy.
Speaker 1:Maddie says, It's my first time writing you, but I've listened to your entire podcast beginning to end and have learned so much from you. Oh, Maddie, I'm so grateful. Thank you. Maddie says, I'm a trans therapist that works at a queer agency and have really started looking at all my work with clients through a trauma attachment polyvagal lens because of everything I've learned from your podcast. I can't even tell you the number of times I have shared episodes of your podcast with clients to help them and it being so helpful.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. I'm so grateful. That means so much to me. That that's, again, every single person who contributes to this podcast, whether it's a donation or a letter or note that encourages us or a shared story that says how it got passed on, it makes meaning out of all of this, and that's so powerful. Thank you, Maddie, for this.
Speaker 1:Maddie says, I have a question that isn't about dissociation specifically, so you don't want to answer it. That's okay. I know you're beyond busy. But I'm right here right now for you, Maddie. I got it.
Speaker 1:I recently had a lot of folks added to my caseload with ADHD and or autism and have found it interesting with the overlap of trauma, chronic pain, and other things you have talked about on your show. I know you've mentioned two of your children being autistic. So whether from a professional or personal place, do you have any suggestions or resources that you have found helpful? I know majority of what we are taught, especially for autism, is not empowering or actually helpful to folks and just behavioral and creates more stigma, and I'd like to be as client centered as possible. Good for you, Maddie.
Speaker 1:I'm loving Maddie, you guys. Everyone give a shout out to Maddie. If it's not, that's very okay too. Thank you so much for all you do, all you share, and the ways you're changing the world. You've definitely changed mine.
Speaker 1:Oh, Maddie, I've loved your email for a hundred reasons. First of all, ADHD is often over diagnosed when it's actually relational trauma. And people think it's not relational trauma because they had really good parents or especially if they come from really good people or really good churches or really good anything. Too much good is often associated with relational trauma and people think it is ADHD or forgetfulness or very similar expressions of actual dissociative disorders, even if it's not DID. Okay.
Speaker 1:So first of all, we are in the middle of completely redefining what CPTSD is, And that has to do with the ICD coming out and DSM-five broadening PTSD instead of adding CPTSD, and all of that is a different podcast. So we can talk about this more in the future in another episode. But to answer your question quickly, ADHD is sometimes actually ADHD. Like that can be a thing. Of course it's a thing.
Speaker 1:Medication helps with that, but even more than that, getting a medication, and I'm not a doctor and I'm not giving medication advice, this is experience, okay? Getting medication that matches the right antidepressant actually bolsters both of them. And you need to talk to a psychiatrist that knows about this and can explain it to you, but that will help immensely. The other thing is going back to relational trauma. It often shows up as ADHD when it's really relational trauma because ADHD has to do with being attentive and physically and neurologically responding to be attended to.
Speaker 1:And if you don't get those, then it can result in behaviors or expressions of self that look like ADHD but really are relational trauma. So I think that needs to be its own episode and we can come back to it. And then as for autism, there's all kinds of neurological research being done right now about the overlaps of these. And if you go back to some of the episodes that we have done with survivors themselves, there are a couple who are autistic that shared about this more directly and could speak to it from first person. But I agree with you, it's really hard to find that.
Speaker 1:In fact, our family wrote a series of children's books because we could not find books or media that reflected our children's special needs in positive, empowering light. There was nothing, almost nothing. And so we wrote a book called My Life on the Spectrum. It is by Alex and Emily Christianson. You can find it on Amazon.
Speaker 1:We wrote a book called CP and Me about cerebral palsy by Kirk and Emily Christiansen. We also did one, Marvelous Mary about life with cochlear implants. And we did G Wiz G tube about our youngest daughter getting her G tube. And we did the other brother about being a sibling of kids with special needs. And we did goodbye, hello about relinquishment of parental rights in foster care by Amber and Emily Christiansen.
Speaker 1:And so these children's books are all on Amazon, and you can see them there. The memoir about our family is called Keeping Curie, and it's also on Amazon or on audiobook. You can listen to those, see all this information we're disclosing on this episode. So you can listen to those just for the story of our family or our children, and not that that's developmentally appropriate for the adults that you see necessarily, but it can be powerful if some of them also have trauma and don't have positive things that reflect them, or if you know children with any of these special needs that also reflect them. It's just powerful in those ways of seeking out resources that what just what you say.
Speaker 1:It's the same with any other marginalized population, like with trans or with queer or with African American or Latinx or Asian or the deaf population, right? Like that's us and or any mix of those, like our daughters who are biracial or we who are bicultural because we are deaf, so we're not hearing, but we also and sign language is our first language, but we also betrayed our culture by getting cochlear implants. And so those are issues too of how do you navigate two worlds and what's that like when you have hearing friends and what's it's like when you have deaf friends. So that's just speaking from my experience. And I know that's a lot of issues besides just ADHD or autism, but I think you are on the right track.
Speaker 1:And the fact that you are even asking those questions shows how attuned you are with them. And that is everything. I would also recommend the ISSTD conference if it's still available online to watch. The conference itself has already happened just last weekend, but if it's still available to watch, the ISSTD did a powerful conference of societal trauma impact on marginalized communities this weekend, and it was outstanding. So that's a resource as well just for the broader context of specialized populations.
Speaker 1:But the other things besides reflecting that as far as the overlap between that and trauma and chronic pain and what's going on neurologically, like we've talked about in other podcasts, that's the internal experience is the overlap or finding things that reflect them. But externally, when we talk about trauma and misattunement and relational trauma and shame, what happens is when someone doesn't understand your diagnosis, no matter what it is, whether it's autism or even if it's only ADHD, do you see how people say that only ADHD Like it doesn't mess up every area of the functioning of your life. That's not okay. That's shame based language, even how that's spoken. And so no matter what the diagnosis is, if people don't understand what it's like to be you or how hard it is to be you or don't respect or connect or adapt in the ways that you need, then by default, you are experiencing misattunement, which is relational trauma, which leads to shame.
Speaker 1:And so even if nothing else goes wrong in your life, which no human has a life like that, then they are automatically getting trauma just because of their diagnosis and people not understanding it. So there's automatically a comorbidity with trauma, even if it's not about child abuse or sexual abuse or physical abuse, it can be relational trauma. And it can be relational trauma without a caregiver being a bad person. That's a huge misnomer that we also need to address. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:It's about your experience, what was attended to or not, and what life is like every day. This is why with six children, we can't hardly function in any other area of our life. Like we fight to keep our job, we fight to work hard with our patients, we try hard to make enough money to feed the children. But every other single waking moment is spent with the children because there are so many of them. There are six children, right?
Speaker 1:And with six children, there are many things that are amazing about big families. But even if we were perfect, which we are not, all the children still have to take turns. And any kind of waiting counts as relational trauma. It counts as misattunement. Any kind of delay in having your need met is misattunement.
Speaker 1:It's not about us being bad. You can come from an amazing family with incredible parents and still have relational trauma. You could be the first child and then your mom have a second child, and whether you're the first child or the fiftieth child, like we have so many kids in our house, right? Like, it doesn't matter what birth order is even in this context. If you're a toddler and your mother has an infant, has, like, has another baby, that's still relational trauma because your relationship gets disrupted and shifted before you are able to understand what's going on and before you are able to resolve that by yourself, which means your emotional needs are not getting met.
Speaker 1:So you may have a wonderful parent, and maybe your parent is so perfectly perfect that they don't even have postpartum depression, which can also cause misattunement with a child, even if they're never abused. Right? So we have to broaden the understanding of trauma that it's not just about abuse, it's about your emotional needs not being noticed, reflected, or met. And until they are, you are left starving for that. And that can show up in a hundred ways.
Speaker 1:So even with ADHD or autism, even if they don't have classic trauma in their background, there may very well be relational trauma because of their diagnosis or because of people not understanding their diagnosis. It may not even be about them, right? So I think you're on the right track and the fact that you care is so powerful and I would actually, Maddie, if you were up to it sometime and have time, I would actually love to talk to you about this on the podcast. So let me know if you wanna come on the podcast and we can talk about it because I think it would be really fantastic conversation. Sal says, I just recently started working with Doctor.
Speaker 1:Barish, and he suggested I listen to your podcast. I'm a few episodes in, and I reach out to you to let you know how transformative it is for me. I feel so much less alone in this world. I can barely put it into words. Thank you.
Speaker 1:A thousand shout outs to Sal, and kudos to you for working with Doctor. Barish. I love him so much, and that's wonderful that you have a safe place to go to and to talk about your stuff and to connect with in that way. And I'm so glad that listening is supporting that and that you feel connection here and that you are not alone in going through what you have endured even if our circumstances are completely different. Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 1:Faye says, I just want to say thank you to you all for the work you do. We've been listening to the System Speak podcast for over a year now, and it has helped us so much more than I can say. The cascade of defense episode especially just blew us away recently. I know. Right?
Speaker 1:You guys should see Christine Forner in action. Like, she is a powerful, powerful woman saying incredible things and speaking very real truths. It is good stuff. And when she presents it, it is like, you're gonna have to listen to it six times just to process it all. Right?
Speaker 1:They said, we listened to it three times, took notes, sent the episode to our therapist, and discussed it. It led to such a huge breakthrough moment. We can't thank you all enough. We're setting up a monthly donation to you all to support this amazing work. I hope your family is doing well and settling into the new house.
Speaker 1:Lots of love from all of us to you all. That's amazing. Thank you so much. Mrs. J says, I just started listening today, the September.
Speaker 1:I had my first lost time incident in August and will be having an EEG soon to determine if it was a focal partial seizure or rule it out. I've been diagnosed BPNOS since 2012 and recently started doing work to accept and integrate my inner child with EMDR. Wow. I experienced trauma as an infant and long term physical abuse and a substantial TBI, that means traumatic brain injury, if you don't know, with a felt sense of an NDE at twelve. That's my first conscious memory of dissociating.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I was terrified of losing time and then canceling my personal and marriage therapy with my amazing therapist. I didn't find out until the August I had done it. Intellectual me started putting two and two together from my past and researching. The second episode from Doctor. E, OMG, thank you.
Speaker 1:Just thank you so much. I cried and cried and cried. You explained it so much better than anything I read because you have experienced it. I don't have a diagnosis of DID, but I do know that I have a pretty complex history of trauma resulting in PTSD and have been in fight or flight response for what seems like half my life. There are lots of my past that I don't remember and what I do, it's a mostly negative, and I have at times felt like a stranger in my own body trying to figure out and define the concept of self and consciousness through different philosophers like Hume and Kant, Dorita, Plato, Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, etcetera.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yes, the podcast helps, and I'm only on episode two. That's hilarious. You've got a long way to go, and welcome to the journey. Lisa says, so happy you have the English teacher. I'm sorry to hear even the therapist is a multiple layer hardship heartache for you, but happy to hear both parties are able to keep the relationship safe and stable and heavy for all.
Speaker 1:It sounds like incredible progress, but I can't imagine how hard that wise decision was to execute. Oh my goodness, Lisa. You got it. The English teacher episodes were intense. I'm not sure they were entirely healthy to do to myself, but it seems like it was necessary and it was very hard to wrestle with.
Speaker 1:And I'm continuing to process those things in therapy, but it was good stuff and I'm in a solid good place right now if I can hold on to it, which feels daunting and terrifying. But I think it was good, and we're making progress. I'm so glad you're out there, Lisa, and once again, like, you really understood pieces we weren't even able to express. Thank you. Laurie says, I had a realization when you were talking today.
Speaker 1:I was listening to your most recent podcast with your longtime friend, the English teacher. You keep giving yourself a hard time for not being a good friend and questioning why it's like that. With that particular friend, she brings up a lot. I totally get why it would be hard to keep in touch with her, even though she's nice and wants to be helpful. Thank you for sharing your process because it just gave me a huge dose of compassion for myself.
Speaker 1:I often feel like, why do I do that when it comes to relationships from my past? It's okay. It's what I do. I've been through a lot and those historic relationships can bring up a lot from those times. You know what, Laurie?
Speaker 1:You are absolutely right. That conversation was so triggering and she just went straight there and was super intrusive in those ways. What's not on the podcast is that I had given her permission to do so because I really wanted to know what there was to know, but it was hard to hear, and it was hard to process, and it was hard to stay with it. And so I edited out a lot of things, and I edited out a lot of silence, and I edited out a lot of things I wasn't ready to share on the podcast, but it it was brutal. Like, there's no way around it.
Speaker 1:That was a brutal, terrible, deep conversation that was very painful, but I do think it was necessary. And on this side of things, I'm glad we did it, but it was very painful and absolutely changed everything. So I feel like it was really like a bookend to the leaving on the boat a year ago, but also was more like a stepping stone, and we still have a long way to go. And it just took us a year to take that next step, and so now we're focused on what's coming next and processing that. Maybe that will take a whole other year just to process everything from those interviews.
Speaker 1:I don't know. It was super intense, though. Absolutely. Thank you for understanding that and respecting that and reminding us all to have compassion for ourselves. Jen says, I just wanted to reach out and say thank you for your podcast.
Speaker 1:It's helping me to unravel and make sense of my experiences. It feels confusing right now, but I'm comforted by your podcast and willingness to show up and be vulnerable. It really helps. Oh, Jen is in New Zealand. A shout out to New Zealand.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's gorgeous. And the food there, let me tell you about the food in New Zealand. Oh my goodness. Thank you, Jen. Raven says, We stopped listening in the middle of our bad time of year last year, and so we just now started listening again, and we've gotten caught up through February and have started some of the March ones.
Speaker 1:I know it's a long time ago for you, and I haven't listened to the recent ones, but back in February and the March, we are in awe of how Doctor. E is feeling able to know some things that weren't okay for her to know before because she had to function at work. And Emma is progressing so, so much. We are so proud of her and all of you. Also, Julie says Sasha is still amazing and she wants to say hi to Sasha.
Speaker 1:Oh, Raven knows Julie. Well, hello, Julie, and hello, Raven. It does give us hope and we want to just thank you for sharing these parts of your journey with other survivors and DID peeps, reducing stigma. The hard parts you share are just as valuable too because we feel less alone and less ashamed. We haven't gotten as far as you are getting now, although we have made quite a bit of progress with internal cooperation before, but a lot has been coming undone this past year when one of us went dormant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a thing. But it does give us hope that what may feel impossible to us now could be possible at a later date when things are more stable in the external world. Stability in the external world makes all the difference. So does connection with safe people. Let me just say that while she's mentioning it.
Speaker 1:What you said about the truth bomb text from your friend about a comment you made in a podcast that being alone is safer really struck a chord. It feels like one of those moments of alignment in the universe that we just so happened to listen to that podcast so shortly after telling our therapist that if we ever have any person around us that is no longer a safe place in our minds, for us too alone is safer than people. So we related to that so much. Your friend's wake up call and what you learned from Gottman's website about turning toward. Some of us are saying that makes so much sense, that when someone is a safe person, being alone probably isn't better.
Speaker 1:But also a lot of us are resisting that and saying no way, we need to be completely alone, no people at all to stay safe. They're a little irritated with your friend's words. So we are really proud of you all that you could so thoughtfully consider her words and share the wisdom you learned from research with listeners instead of pushing her words away like we want to. You know what though? That's part of the conversation.
Speaker 1:That's part of the internal dialogue. That's part of what you have to work through and navigate. And you can't do that if you don't listen to them. That's part of what has been so hard for us this year, is listening to parts that we have previously ignored or dismissed. And it's ugly, messy, difficult, painful work.
Speaker 1:But because of that, being able to include them and have them on board and all of us on the same page and making decisions together changes everything. Everything changes. And again, this is something we're gonna have to talk about in the future that we don't quite have words for yet. But I absolutely hear you and agree with you. Raven says, We may just not be quite ready for that truth bomb yet, but it gave us another perspective to consider inside and maybe someday we will be able to circle back and revisit the idea when we feel safer and more stable in an external world.
Speaker 1:You even said in your podcast that your therapist had said something similar for years and so perhaps we just need to be more patient with ourselves and our process and when we are really ready to take in those kinds of nuggets of wisdom. We wish you lots of good things on your journey. The birthday episode meant a lot to us too. We are so happy you could have that silly and wonderful experience. You guys, the birthday really was special, and our friends really were so very generous and kind to come all the way to see us, and it was a good day.
Speaker 1:A lot happened because of that, that changed everything, and that was hard. But those hard things needed to be dealt with. Those things needed to be faced. Those parts needed to be heard. And I don't know if we would have even discovered them if the birthday had not happened.
Speaker 1:And so even though there were some challenging things about it and difficult things with it, it was really a huge gift to us that our friends gave us by loving us in that way. Because I think really what happened was they gave us the gift of love that now we are able to give ourselves in a way differently than we ever could before. And that's what's changed everything was connection and love for ourselves and for others around us. Like our capacity to do that for ourselves and our capacity to do that for each other. Raven says, We are sad you didn't get to do it before.
Speaker 1:We didn't either growing up, so we relate and feel less alone as you so bravely share a part of your vulnerability with the listeners, and we thank you for that. We so relate to how all those questions brought up so many internal fears, memories, arguments inside, and thank you for sharing how you dealt with it. That hammock sounds so soothing and comforting. Just wondering if you have a personal PayPal where we could send a little money to you. We like to donate to the podcast when possible, but we also like to send you a little something just for you if it's okay.
Speaker 1:Wishing you the best on your continued journey. Oh, that's very kind of you, Raven. You can send us money through the PayPal on the website, and there's a place where you can leave a note to us about what it's for, if it's for just our family or if it's for the podcast, and if there's anything you want to share that we can read on the podcast. All of that you can put when you donate on the website. Thank you so much, Raven.
Speaker 1:Marissa says, hi, my boyfriend has OSDD and a system. I want to learn more about this topic so I can be there to support him to the full extent. I joined a Discord server about it that he's in, and I don't really feel comfortable messaging one of the random systems in it. Yesterday, I was on the server and someone got mad at me because I was being too affectionate or familiar with the littles. Wow.
Speaker 1:Okay. Several things. One, we don't talk about OSDD a lot on the podcast only because that's not our lived experience. But we have had some specific episodes where we had guests who do have that experience and we're able to share that, so follow-up with them. As far as online people, remember that every system is different and their boundaries are gonna be communicated differently through different people.
Speaker 1:So if you've made friends with some parts, then other parts are going to let you know what's safe or not. Just remember that it's a system wide experience and you're always interacting with more than just the person in front of you. I guarantee it. So if you make friends with some littles, that's actually a pretty safe and sacred and special thing. Not many people will let you make friends with their littles.
Speaker 1:In other ways, some littles are sometimes out more often because of developmental needs or connection patterns or because of developmental issues where connection patterns were made possible or dismantled, really depending on what people's experiences were. Right? And so anytime you make friends with one part of a system and another part says, woah, woah, woah, we need to do this differently or you need to do that differently, just respond to that feedback. Accept the feedback. They're setting boundaries for their system, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:And ask how you can do it differently or how you can interact more appropriately. Learn from that system what is appropriate and healthy and good for that system specifically, and listen as they share what they need. That's what you do in healthy relationships anyway, whether it's with another friend or an entire system, is just listening to what is meaningful to each other and learning from that. So good luck and thank you for your support. Trish says, Hello everyone.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to say thank you so much for doing this podcast. It has been a huge help to me. My therapist suggested it to me and somehow hearing from you and your contributors just helps me to come to terms with things better. I live on a tiny island off the coast of The UK, so hearing you is so valuable. Thank you from Trish and all her parts.
Speaker 1:That is super cool, Trish. And I live on a tiny hill with six children. And so hearing from you is valuable to me as well. Welcome. BJ says, I just listened to your podcast in response to the English teacher episodes.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing the significance of your scars. Those experiences that create them reinforce the strength within them. Now see, this system, they really are good with those truth bombs and you just have to sit with those for a while and think about them. Thank you for writing in, and thank you for your support. And thank you for the art notebook and the art pencils.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. They are amazing, and I'm so grateful. And in fact, I've been able to work on Christmas presents for my family with them, and I would not have been able to do that if you had not sent me new supplies because funny thing about having paints or being into art at all is that you use up your supplies, and so it's really hard to replace them when there are other things that are so much more important to take care of. And so that was very kind and generous. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Really, really. I mean it. So, again, all of that just to say the community of us inside and the community of each of you and the community of all of us together, I think we're changing the world. Or maybe we're just making it a safer place. Or maybe we're just learning to feel better about ourselves.
Speaker 1:Or maybe all of it's true, but thank you for being you. I mean it. Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsspeak.com.
Speaker 1:We'll see you there.