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OVIDcast by OVID Health, a global healthcare communications consultancy, explores current issues in the health and life sciences sector.
In each series, we explore a new topic, speaking to prominent figures within the healthcare landscape.
[00:00:00] Jenny Ousbey: Hello, and welcome to The Health Change Maker podcast. I'm Jenny Ousbey, founder and CEO of OVID Health, a global healthcare communications consultancy, also known as the Health Change Makers. In this new series, I'll be interviewing experts from politicians and patients to tech founders and CEOs. All with a shared passion for improving the well being of people and driving meaningful change. Join me as I meet incredible Change Makers and be inspired to become a Change Maker yourself. Hello and welcome to the Health Change Maker Podcast. I'm very excited to be joined today by Abbas Karimi. Abbas has achieved a huge amount of things in his life so far, and has already done a swimming training session before he's even started this conversation with me today, so welcome Abbas.
[00:01:02] Abbas Karimi: Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
[00:01:04] Jenny Ousbey: Delighted to have you. So Abbas was born in Afghanistan with no arms and he left Afghanistan when he was 16 years old and traveled across mountains, traveled through Iran, was smuggled into Turkey, where he lived in a refugee camp and from the refugee camp, you were picked out as being a really promising swimmer and the reason for that is that the first time you went into a pool in Afghanistan, you realized that swimming was your calling and from then, Abbas has become an elite athlete and has won a number of medals during his elite swimming career, including a silver medal at the world championships in Mexico and also traveling to Tokyo as part of the Paralympic team and he is also six weeks away from taking part in the Team USA trials so that he can be a part of the Paris Paralympic Team USA swimming team in six weeks time and then, what would be great to hear is that moment, that first time where you entered a pool, Abbas, feels like where a part of your story began. So, can you tell us a bit about that moment?
[00:02:14] Abbas Karimi: Well, going back, 12 or 13 years ago that I entered the pool for the first time, I had a t shirt on and I was really scared of water and I was, I entered to the area that it was, the water was around my neck and It was very heavy. The first time, being in the water was felt really heavy and I was just standing there and I was not moving. But the thing was that I was happy that I was in the water and it was, it was cold water, but, not super cold, but it was cold and it was making me feel cool. Like, I'm getting refreshed. So that was one of the amazing feeling that I had being in the water.
[00:02:55] Jenny Ousbey: Do you still feel that amazing feeling years and years later, particularly when you're training every day and I'm sure some days you don't want to train, or it's hard, or you're tired. Do you still get that feeling, or is it different?
[00:03:09] Abbas Karimi: Of course, that feeling become more, especially after when I won some medals and after when I became a champion. Swimming is not fun all the time, especially when you're a world class level athlete and doing your best to be number one in the world and won these big games. It's not fun, to get in the water every day and get wet and, be in the water, but when it's become way of your life, I have to find my reasons that what, why I have to get in the water today, how, what will be the reason? So I'm like an hour or two hours before swimming, I put my headphone on and I listen to some, motivationally speaking or some videos or music that would, bring, I'm collecting all the motivation or the energy, the positive focus in my head, in my mindset and then it's make it fun. Once in a while, it's so much fun to jump in the water and have some fun or go to the beach, or there's some lake or say like, like a waterfall. It's so much fun, but being in the water every day, it's not fun. But, for me, because it became way of my life and it saved my life, all those things, despite all the pain and every day that I put myself through suffering and there's a loss of pain, training, especially when I want to keep, I have to keep going fast, every day. But I enjoy the pain because at the end of the day, it will pay off and it will make me a champion and it's worth it. That's how I enjoy it, because when I am in on that podium, that's the happiest moment of my life and then I say to myself, it's worth it that I, everything that I went through in the water.
[00:04:51] Jenny Ousbey: I watched a video of one of your coaches saying on Instagram that your drive is one of the best things about you. So the thing that makes you special is your drive, like how you get yourself up in the morning and get to do training every day. So I think that's interesting about how that doesn't always come naturally as soon as you wake up in the morning, it's something as you say, you have to put the headphones on, you have to get yourself in the zone. I'm interested about asking you, because one of the things that I've read is that you're really passionate about this idea around representation is a responsibility and you clearly take it really seriously in terms of how do you, in your role as an elite swimmer, fight for the rights of disabled people. Can you tell me a bit about how you feel like you getting in the pool every day and how you've translated that into representing for people?
[00:05:48] Abbas Karimi: First of all, everything I'm doing, in my life, especially swimming, getting in the pool every morning and, swimming with other, able bodied swimmers. First of all, I do something positive because it's a sport, swimming is sport and I compete at the international, the world championship or Paralympic games, any game, it showed positive sides of me and through that, I spread the energy, the positive vibes or the motivation or inspiration and giving the encouragement to others, especially in a able body, that makes me feel special, that, me, that I don't have arms, I was born without arms, but I've been fighting my whole life to be something great or being something special, because that was always my burning desire, that I wanted to be somebody, and, through that, I think I'm representing people with disability all around the world, not just in the United States, but all around the world, to be a positive face of disabled people around the world, to show the world that, we may have no arms, we may have, missing some part of our body, but at the end, we can be part of the society, we can be part of the world and we can be part of our, wherever we live, any country, that we can make the world a better place and we count and we're equal, that's, I do my best to show the people and make them understand that it's okay if we, if we have disability, but still, our heart and our brain, our mind is working and we can create more positivity to this world.
[00:07:27] Jenny Ousbey: Do you get people, parents or children or adults writing to you if they've experienced disability themselves and if so, do you feel like they are writing to you about the same challenges that you experienced is, or do you feel like it's changed over the years?
[00:07:46] Abbas Karimi: Well, absolutely. I get a lot of messages and especially in social media that they want to know and more about when if their child is have disability, especially if they don't have arms, they want to know that, what my child can be doing and what he will, he or she will be capable of and they're trying to learn more about, what I went through and how I learned things to do and be independent and be able to take care of myself. Of course, I have a lot of experiences, I'm not the only person without arms in the world. Everyone has their own, journey, their own challenging struggles or obstacles, whatever they went through. But mine, I believe that mine was the hardest one that I went through, but at the end of the day, I, no matter how many of time I fall down, but I keep getting up. I keep getting up because I believe that I failed in my life so much that I became successful. But at the end of the day, I didn't stay down, I keep getting up and that's what I'm doing my best to tell those families that if they have a disabled child, don't give up on your child or don't become hopeless on your child because God may take some part of your body or take some of the things from them, but I believe that he gave something even better to them that they have to, of course, that God doesn't come in front of you and tell you that, Hey, this is your gift and you have to live on with it and be better and be successful on it. We all have to find our truth and we have to create ourself. We have to keep working hard on ourselves that to find out what truly we are, you know.
[00:09:29] Jenny Ousbey: Do you think you deal with failure well or better than when you were younger?
[00:09:35] Abbas Karimi: I think, being born without arms, my family taught a lot of hopeless thinking about me than being positive, but yet they gave me a lot of love and all the things, but in my own world, I always been so lonely, but at the end of the day, because I believe that I'm very, I'm one of the toughest, men on earth, I am very driven and that I want to be something bigger than myself, I failed so much in my life and failing like taught me how to be better and find my weaknesses, it's always so sad and heartbroken that the, when we fail and I failed so much, like I said, in my life, then I became successful and I lost the biggest events of my life, but at the end, if it meant something, I kept getting up and I had to, I did it all over again and still, I'm not the most successful, the most winning medals in swimming, but I am the one of the toughest swimmer there. So...
[00:10:41] Jenny Ousbey: I think you need a t-shirt that says, toughest man on earth and then when you get to the Paralympics, that's what I want to see you wearing. As you get ready to go into the water, because I think that'd be amazing.
[00:10:52] Abbas Karimi: Absolutely, because, we have to be tough in this world. I believe that this world, show no mercy to no one, we have to keep getting up because we have to find our truth and we have to create ourselves because otherwise, life goes on in any way that we chose to move on, we can end up in the street, we can be homeless and we can, stay down and we're not, people doesn't care and they will walk on you. But if you stand up for yourself and if you really have a passion, a goal and you're seeking help and support, you will get that because, I'm not a self-made man, but because I wanted so bad to make all these things happen right now that's going on in my life and in my story and about my accomplishments in the past and right now. It's because I want it so bad and no one like forced me to do things that I don't want to do, but because I want it so bad to become a champion and go to these three world championship and one Paralympic games and one Pan American game and winning some medal at the world championship or Pan American game, it's just, because I want it so bad, and that's why people was willing to, support me and help me. I didn't like, force them, but because I have a passion and it's something very positive and it's something big, people were willing to help and that's how I got in United States, because I wanted to be a world champion. I wanted to compete at the world level and someone was interested to sponsor me and bring me here and that's what I'm trying to tell people when they see this podcast because, if they have something inside that they cannot live without and as long as it's positive, it's something great, it's something bigger than yourself, then I promise you it will happen, but you have to make it happen and you have to look for supports, look for, guidance and find ways that how you can achieve that success and how you can turn that dream, that vision to reality.
[00:12:51] Jenny Ousbey: And how do you look, talking about looking for guidance, who do you look to for guidance, for inspiration? People you think are change makers that have inspired you.
[00:13:02] Abbas Karimi: First of all, I have a relationship with God and I believe that, even my book is published that it says that God took my arms, but he gave me this gift. I talk with the God a lot and I pray three times a day and I always tell him that I'm going to do everything to be the most successful person and get everything I want in this world, in this life. But whatever you want, that will happen and whatever you want, if this is what you want, this will happen. But then I ask him help and then he put people in my way. When big people comes out of nowhere and they offer their help, their supports, then through that I made all these things happen, I think that because guidance is like, you have to believe in something, you have to have faith, you have to believe that no matter how down or what kind of darkness you're in, as long as you are in your heart, in your mind, you see something, some brightness that you'll get through this and then at the end of the day, you will come back, you will come to brightness from the dark moment that I've been through over years and years. But at the end of the day, I got myself out of that darkness. I'm out of that dark world because, I wanted to quit everything like a thousand times, but I just, at the end of the day, I couldn't, because there was always people that needed me to become a champion, needed me to keep swimming, needed me to do this, all these, positive things and then I did it. I just didn't do it for myself, I did it for millions of people and that's why it makes me different.
[00:14:40] Jenny Ousbey: Thank you, thank you for saying that and I think that will mean a lot to a lot of people listening to this today. On to a slightly different topic. I'm interested to know, how does a very driven person who wants to achieve, who wants to be a champion, relax?
[00:14:56] Abbas Karimi: I watch movies, Hollywood movies, and I listen to musics and I talk, I'm married and I talk with my wife and that relaxes me and I talk with my mom and keep getting her blessed and these are the things that I do that, to relax me. But I never had a very comfortable life to be relaxed and have everything, having a perfect life. I didn't, my wife is out on the other side of the world and I'm here trying to conquer the world and especially make Paris happened, to become the victorious and I want to conquer the Paris Paralympic Games. It's a lot of tough moments, lonely moments, a lot of suffering, a lot of challenges, a lot of obstacles. But then I always adapt, improvise, overcome all these things because I take it inside me and move on with it because that's, I believe that's a real champion because I don't make any excuses, but there are some times that I watch some movies and some, I watch a lot of TV, but most importantly, when I'm talking with people, when I'm doing podcasts or interview or doing motivationally speaking, it's really relaxes me because I tell to myself, wow, you went through a lot and now you're all telling all those things and I even cannot believe myself that, Oh my God, what you have done to yourself, especially when I read my book that for pre approved, I cried a couple of times even for over my own story that overall, I had to live all those 27 years that I went through and I have to go through that all over again. But I asked myself, what you have done to yourself, but then it motivates me, because what I'm going through now, it's nothing compared to what I went through and that encouragement, giving motivation, inspiration to others really relaxes me, because it's makes me feel good, you know.
[00:16:53] Jenny Ousbey: It's interesting, it feels like, as you were saying, it's almost like repeating parts of your earlier story is part of what fuels you now to keep going. I'm also really glad that you said talking to your wife relaxes you, because if you'd said the opposite then we'd be in trouble, but I'm glad that's the case. So hopefully, we mentioned that you've got six weeks and you've got these big trials coming up where you'll be competing for one of twelve places, I think, to get on to team USA's, swimming team for the Paris Paralympics. So let's manifest the fact that you're going to be there. You're going to get onto the team and you're going to Paris. Are any of your friends and family going to be able to come and watch you? Or will they be watching via the TV?
[00:17:39] Abbas Karimi: Some of my fans and some of my American friends, American family, they probably will be in Paris, but not my own family or my Afghan friends that will be in Paris, but there's a lot of my, I have some friends in Paris, but I don't know if they will be able to get the ticket and come to watch my competition. But I'm just looking forward to it because my family, my father, my mom, they always watched me on TV. After when I won a medal, I suddenly I was in medias and on the news and all those things and my family was seeing then, watching me and they was, that's how we were celebrating.
[00:18:18] Jenny Ousbey: As you and your story have become more well known. What do you think are the common misconceptions that people have about your journey or what you've achieved or what questions annoy you as well?
[00:18:32] Abbas Karimi: I'm a tough person. I am a competitor athlete and sometimes I can be in a beast mode and sometimes, I can be very funny, joking around, like being like a joker and laughing out of nowhere, but I always try and find ways to be positive in any situation, it's puts a lot of pressure on me. I think people, they have a negative judgment before they get to know me because I have always, a serious look, a mean look, but that, when I go to the pool, when I go to the gym and when I do trying to run, I cannot smile and at the same time train. All I can say to people is that, I'm the nicest person in the world, but when it's time to get focused, get serious, I can be the most serious person in the world, and it's focus, it's everything that I'm doing is, it's like, for me, it's like a life and death, I have to make it happen, I'd rather die than not making it happen and nowadays I become very comfortable that people, any question that they ask from me, I do my best to give them an answer. It doesn't annoy me because, I conquered myself. I conquered, I accepted myself that, no matter, it's okay, you don't have arms, but you're the most handsome and attractive or you're a King or, I see myself as a loss of I'm a lion and all those things. I see myself on those things and that's makes me happy. Like, maybe I should make one of those things happen and I have to keep swimming. I have to keep competing. I have to show myself what I'm made of and I have to show the world what I'm capable of, that's what drives me.
[00:20:12] Jenny Ousbey: Have you thought about what life will look like after your swimming career has finished? Because I know that's a really difficult transition for a lot of elite athletes to think about.
[00:20:23] Abbas Karimi: I think I'm going to be more successful after my swimming career is over and after when I'm retired because I already set bigger goals than being a champion. I think it's going to, it's still so bright, but it's going to be very difficult and very challenging because everything I set in my mind, everything I said in my life is supposed to be impossible. I have to achieve impossible, I don't want to achieve something that is average, I like to achieve something real, something special that will make me special and make me feel good, but then it will spread the energy, the positivity to the world and to the people around me. So I feel, I see it very bright because I did what I had to do, of course, making the Paris happen and I'm going to make it happen, I see it already, my times are dropping, and I'm just getting faster, I'm working so hard day and night to make it happen and most importantly, after when someone's career is over, we do our best from our sides to be in the best shape of our life to win, and to be the victorious, but at the end of the day, if we did everything we got, and we, did a lot of sacrifices and we paid the price and even if it doesn't happen, because nothing is guaranteed in life, life is full of risk, it's worth it, you know? All I want to say to myself at the, after Paris or, make it or not make it, I don't want to see myself as a failure to myself because I don't want to, curse myself, I don't want to punish myself that, screw you, you were a failure or you didn't make it happen. I'm doing everything right now, I'm not comfortable, I'm in pain every day, and then I know that it's going to happen, but if what, if not, then I don't want to have regrets the rest of my life. That's why I said, I'm going to try the, for the second Paralympic games. But I already set my goals after Paris, but right now I'm giving everything to make the Paris happen because it's everything to me, you know.
[00:22:29] Jenny Ousbey: Well, I know that we'll all be cheering and willing you on. I'm really interested about how, what can other people learn if they're sitting at home, they're listening to you talking and hearing this incredibly inspiring story. How can they learn, is it possible, do you think, for people to learn resilience, toughness, drive? Or is it something that you think you're born with?
[00:22:57] Abbas Karimi: I think they should listen a hundred percent to my speech and my videos and everything, but at the end of the day, they should not do what I did or what I went through because we're all different and we all have to create that toughness because I was not born with toughness, but I create it because I was in a world that all, most of the people was judging me negatively, but yet I was, no matter how many times I was falling down, no matter how many times I was getting cuts in my head, I was bleeding and blood was all over my face. But, I got up and I believe that people can get motivated, get inspired, or get, they can get the encouragement from my story. It will help for that moment for one second or one hour or one day or one month, but then they will be by themselves. They have to find what their interest is, they have to find what they're in love with, they have to find what they cannot live without and that's, not a human, but it's a goal to, it's success because I believe that, success is very attractive things and successful people are very attractive, like me, but I'm not there yet, where I wanted to be, I'm not there, maybe because I didn't work hard enough. But maybe it's I'm too young. I'm so young and still I accomplished so much in my life and I made it this far. My story is no matter, how many times people are trying to put you down, but at the end of the day, it's on you that you have to stand for yourself, you have to show the people that you're more than just what you are, because as a kid, I wanted to find out what am I, that I'm just a kid without arms. What more can I be? So I had to, I did all these activities, kickboxing, my first sport when I was 12 years old and then doing different martial arts sports and then, I ended up being a competitive swimmer and now I made it at this level. It's all just positive things, I did a lot of negative things in my life, but I learned from them. I learned that negative things can, end up bad, but positive things can end up good and that's, I chose positive things. I chose to become a people's champion.
[00:25:24] Jenny Ousbey: Thank you and I think there's a lot of discussion, isn't there, about resilience and about building resilience in young children and I think there's a lot that teachers and people who, parents who are thinking about how they can build resilience into their children is so important. I mean, I think I've got a seven year old girl and I think we're already having conversations about how can she be more resilient in life? Because there's always going to be something that life throws at you that you don't expect and as you say, you need to know how to deal with it.
[00:25:53] Abbas Karimi: Absolutely. I'm going to tell you guys a story. It's new, a week ago, I had a very bad accident. I was going through green light. I came from swimming. I was coming home, then a guy came out of nowhere and he hit me.
[00:26:09] Jenny Ousbey: Oh, God.
[00:26:09] Abbas Karimi: On my left side and then my car, I was upside down.
[00:26:13] Jenny Ousbey: Oh my goodness.
[00:26:13] Abbas Karimi: But yeah, then, at that moment I was telling myself, I'm telling God, Oh please God, keep me safe. I may, not afraid of death and I may welcome death sometime, but then I was thinking about that moment, what would happen to my wife and what would happen to the Paralympic Games that I'm still not a Paralympic medalist. The only medal that I'm missing in my life is Paralympic medals. After that, if I die, I don't care, but I have to at least finish what I started and when I took my seatbelt off and then I fall down and then the windows crack. So, I got bruises, on my knee and my feet. But then I got out of the car fine, sitting there, fixing my hair and I got a lots of long hair and then I was laughing and smiling that, I was keep praying at the same time. The thank God, maybe it was not my day and maybe, you didn't want it to anything happened to me. I was very blessed that none of my neck didn't broken or I didn't get a big injury to stop me from swimming and going to Paris, then I realized that, oh my God, you're, how tough you can be, because I went through a lot of darkness, I went through a lot, in my life that could, killed me or I should have be dead by now. But then, no, I was still alive, and I'm still doing what I, love to do and so, I'm very thankful, but like, I, the main point is that in life, no matter how old are when you go outside, when you take the risk, life is full of risk, you have to take the risk. But it doesn't mean that you have to stay home to keep yourself safe. That means you're locking yourself in your own prison. You have to go out there and achieve success and do whatever you have to do because tomorrow is not promised, but you have to be prepared for tomorrow, what's coming? That's what I did all my life, every path, every journey that I took, it was full of risks, but I took it and because at the end of the day, it was worth it and it's never too early to be successful and even at the age of 7, 10 or 12, when you'll find your truth, your talent, your reality, what you are, keep working hard and keep following that path until you become bigger and bigger and then one day you'll become bigger than yourself. You change the world, you bring positivity and you make the world a better place.
[00:28:35] Jenny Ousbey: Well, I'm really glad that you're okay after the car crash and I think that for most people, that would have been a massive deal, and they wouldn't, they certainly wouldn't be back in the pool training a week later.
[00:28:46] Abbas Karimi: For bit, I had a very, for a few days I had a very bad headache and I was concerned and worried that what if my brain is injured and what if I have a brain injuries and head injuries and I just, so I went to hospital and then there was a nurse, she calmed me down and she was asking my story and she got really motivated and she said, I want to buy your book because it's on Amazon nowadays, everyone can order my book and they scan my head and then they scanned my knee, nothing was wrong, especially very bad headache for a few days was the stress that I was freaking out because I couldn't believe that I got out of the car fine, but my car is upside down. It was keep flashing in my eye and in my mind. But then she really calmed me down and then the results came normal and then, I came home and I took my book and then I signed it for her and I give it to her because she deserved it because she calmed me down at that moment and then and I said, thank God after that the next day I have no headache because I was relaxed and but in this world, in this life, anything can happen to us, but we have to at least try today, to be something for ourself and then if tomorrow comes, we'll do it again. If not, then that's on, end of our life. So that's not guaranteed. So nothing is guaranteed.
[00:30:06] Jenny Ousbey: Thank you and on that note, I have one last question and you've heard Abbas talk about his book. You can obviously read about Abbas's story in more detail. His book is called God Took My Arms, But He Gave Me This Gift and you've done a really fantastic job of explaining that gift to us today. I'm going to ask you a slightly frivolous question at the end, which is when you are standing there waiting to dive into the pool to start your race at the Paralympic Games, because we know that you're going to get there. What song are you going to listen to motivate you before you get in that pool? Have you decided?
[00:30:42] Abbas Karimi: Most of the time I listen to emotional musics because I'm very emotional person. Obviously, I believe that the most serious or angry people around the world, in this world, in this life, is the most emotional persons because they are so lonely or they suffer so much and they become serious right away. I always try my best to listen to the music that will turn me to the beast mode and every time, I tried myself, I tested myself a couple of times that, every time I listen to music, before my, final event and I'm in final and it's time to win or lose and when I listen to music, I did, I don't become, I don't conquer and I don't win medal, I pray, I pray a lot and I believe that praying is calming me down more than music, but I listen to a lot of music before my competition, before I do the warm up, but when the warm up is done and I'm ready to go to the room, waiting in the room, I don't put my headphone on, I just pray and pray, that's what I realised that because, I'm faith, I have faith in God and I believe that he's gonna have my back and when I enter in His name, in the name of God and whatever he wants, that will happen, but I'm going to do everything on my side as a human being, whatever the result will be, that's what he wanted to be. I have a lot of, different music, I downloaded a lot of music and every day when I wake up, music moves me on or listening to the videos, it moves me, that come on, you gotta do this, I always collect the motivational energy and the positive energy, before I go to the pool, because it's not easy to get in the pool six days a week, get in the pool, get in the pool, get in the pool, but I have to motivate myself, inspire myself that what I was and what I can be if I do the training today.
[00:32:34] Jenny Ousbey: Brilliant, thank you and I think we will try and take even just a tiny bit of that motivational energy that you've given us today and I hope everybody listening will take that forward into their lives, into their day, into their week and take that with them and I know that you are not alone, that there are a lot of people out there who feel a part of your journey and will be absolutely cheering you on through the TV screens later this year. Abbas Karimi, thank you so much.
[00:33:03] Abbas Karimi: Well, thank you so much and even if you listen to my story, to my speaking, and if it gives us some positive vibes and positive energy, give the encouragement, I believe that giving the encouragement can save someone's life and I may not be the best motivational speaker in the world, but like I said, I'm the most toughest guy out there who doesn't quit, who doesn't give up no matter what, what I'm going through. So thank you so much. It was great to be in this podcast. Thank you so much!
[00:33:31] Jenny Ousbey: Thank you so much, appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Health Change Maker podcast. If you enjoyed it, why not share with a friend and subscribe so you never miss an episode.