We have the pleasuring of hearing from Joel Busby, Lead Pastor of Grace Fellowship in Homewood. Joel sets the stage for how to think about the spiritual disciplines and why they matter, and then teaches, practically, on the discipline of reading Scripture. Following his teaching, questions.
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Welcome to our 1st theological talkback of the summer. I was counting up on the way over here. I think this is the the 12th theological talk back series that we've done, which is pretty amazing. The theme, and I'll kind of break down. If you've never been to one of our talk backs before, this is how it is, how it works for the next 45 minutes.
Jeffrey Heine:We're going to have a talk on a particular theme, a particular topic, and then we're going to take a little break, little break, tiny break, get some more, cups of cake and drinks and all that, and sit back down. And then we're going to have a time of Q and a. And, so throughout the talk tonight, I encourage you if you've got some some paper, you've got a pen, if you've got a little, notes app on your phone, you wanna you wanna write some questions down. Things that you can be asking here in just a little bit. And, and it's, sometimes if, you know, if the questions are really good, sometimes the q and a time is even better than the talk itself, because it just provokes all of these questions and this dialogue, for all of us to have together.
Jeffrey Heine:And so it's a, it's a really fun time and the more that we can interact, the better it is. And so, the theme for this summer, the the 3 talk backs that we're gonna be having, has to do with spiritual disciplines. Spiritual disciplines, it's a way of of thinking about how we are deliberate in the way that we live, the choices that we make and how we are followers of Jesus. And so the spiritual disciplines that we're gonna be looking at, we're gonna look at the discipline of community and friendship. We're gonna look at the the discipline of prayer.
Jeffrey Heine:And tonight, we're gonna be exploring the discipline of being in God's word. And, it is an extreme pleasure and joy to be the one that gets to introduce our speaker for tonight, which is the Reverend Doctor Joel t Busby. I first actually got to know Joel Busby, in a redeemer home group, 11 years ago. And, there are a few people who have taught me and cared for me like Busbee has. The few people who have tended to my very soul like Busbee has, And that's gonna come across, I believe in his teaching tonight.
Jeffrey Heine:Joel was sent, to plant Grace Fellowship in Homewood, coming up on 3 years ago. And, some of you here tonight, I know are from Grace Fellowship. It's a beautiful church family, household of faith in the West Homewood area. And we are, so thankful for the ministry, that's being carried out there. And so they were sent, to be, the first kind of redeemer family of churches church in that, part of Birmingham.
Jeffrey Heine:And so, we're gonna be hearing from him tonight. So if you would join with me in welcoming Joel
Speaker 2:Busby. Well, good evening, y'all. I tried. It is so good to see you guys. I'm so thankful that you're here tonight.
Speaker 2:It is a joy for me to be here and anytime I get to spend any time at all with folks from Redeemer, I always wanna take the opportunity to say how unbelievably thank for I am for you guys, for your church family. Elders and pastors at Redeemer, are honestly some of my best friends in the whole world. The relationships spread many years. They run very, very deep. Jeff just said some kind things about me, but you know, I would consider Jeff.
Speaker 2:I would consider Joel Brooks. I would consider Matt Francisco, Josh Howson. I'd consider all these people pastors to me. There's Dwight, whose back there just threw his hands up at me. I love Dwight so much.
Speaker 2:In in the process of of planting Grace Fellowship, the time I got to spend on staff with, Paige Bierman and James Kling, the ways in which they just serve me and continue to serve me. This is no exaggeration, Kling can verify. I think I call him on the phone, his wife can really verify. I think I call him on the phone or text him multiple times a day to ask for help with things. And he continues to serve and help in so many ways.
Speaker 2:So I'm just so so thankful. So thank you guys for having me. And just as a congregation, I wanna thank you for our church's existence. Our church exists because of the grace of God, of course, but after that it exists because of the generous support and encouragement of Redeemer. You guys have planted a church.
Speaker 2:Is that exciting to you? And and we hope that Grace is just one of many churches that together we get to plant in our city, really, for years to come. So that gets me really excited. So thank you. I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 2:I do want to just jump into what we have to talk about tonight. I'm here on assignment, as Jeff said. I was asked to really talk on really 2 things in the next 45 minutes. Your series this summer is on spiritual discipline. So what I'm here to talk about is just very briefly, about 10 or 15 minutes, I want to talk about just a general introduction to spiritual disciplines.
Speaker 2:There are some things I want you to be thinking when you think spiritual disciplines. When you hear that phrase, when you hear those two words, there's a there's a there's a range. There's actually 3 concepts I want to, kind of, pop into your brain when you hear the phrase spiritual disciplines, and I'm gonna explain that. And then actually I want to take the discipline of reading scripture, and then talk about that a little more fully with our time. So an introduction to spiritual disciplines, and then talk about reading scripture in particular.
Speaker 2:I've been in Christian ministry for about 14 years. Some really nice people in San Antonio, Texas, gave me a job working with junior high kids 14 years ago. And over 14 years of Christian ministry, I've sat down at table after table, part of my personal, maybe ministry style, is just the 1 on 1 conversation. I've sat down after table, after table, after table, over coffee, or lunch, or whatever. And so many times in 14 years, I've had people lean across the table and they kind of look around and they say to me, you know, I've been in church my whole life, I'm I'm embarrassed to even say this, but I really have no idea how to read my Bible.
Speaker 2:Or they'll say to me, you know, I know this is really gonna sound crazy, I've been a Christian for years, but but prayer is so difficult for me. In other words, as a pastor, so many of the conversations you have are really basic questions about the spiritual life, and in particular, the idea of the practice of the spiritual disciplines. Okay. So that's what we're gonna get into tonight, and then we're gonna talk about scripture in particular. I know that there's so many things I'm gonna say to you tonight, that you know already.
Speaker 2:Is that people need to be reminded more often than they need to be instructed. So I'm going to remind you of some basic things you might already know. Okay. And there are people in this room who know more about all these things than I do. Okay.
Speaker 2:And and that's fine. But you get me, so I'm gonna try to make you think about it my way. Okay. So that's what you have to look forward to. I wanna read you a passage of scripture to just set, the table for this first concept I wanna I wanna talk about.
Speaker 2:I wanna talk about, as an introduction to spiritual disciplines, I wanna talk about moving from have to, to get to. A lot of times when we think spiritual disciplines, we automatically think something I have to do to be a godly person that I'm struggling with, that I'm not getting up in the morning for, that I'm not sure what I'm doing. And I want us to try to move from have to, to get to. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 2:And I want to read a passage of scripture to just get your mind around this idea. In John chapter 15, Jesus is in the upper room with his disciples. And he begins to talk to them about the life of discipleship. And this is what he tells them, John 15. He says, I am the true vine, and my father is the vine dresser.
Speaker 2:Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit, he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I've spoken to you. And then here's the kicker, abide in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine and you are the branches.
Speaker 2:Whoever abides in me and I am in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Jesus goes on to say that, the branch that that that does not abide in the vine is is thrown away, meaning it's it's it's not useful. It's a wasted life. And then Jesus goes on to say in this section of John, He goes on to say these just mysterious concept and he says, just like I and the father are 1, you are in me and we are 1. I say all this to say that when you hear the 2 words, spiritual discipline, you have to, in your mind, automatically hear those 2 words as the sweetest invitation that you can possibly imagine, to in the case of John 15 and following, to literally participate in the life of God.
Speaker 2:That's what's on the table here. Spiritual disciplines are about these things we intentionally pursue in order to practice this idea of abiding in Jesus. When you hear the 2 words, spiritual discipline, you have to think, this is not something that I have to do, this is a sweet invitation. This is something that I get to do. Okay.
Speaker 2:I wanna try to say this another way. Okay. Spiritual disciplines are a pathway to life, joy, and peace. Now you and I live in a culture that tells you true freedom, true life, true joy, and true peace are about sort of cutting loose any restraint. Okay?
Speaker 2:The idea is we have these restraints on us, but we're these autonomous individual people, and we're supposed to cut every restraint away from us so that then we can finally be free. Okay. That's totally wrong, It's totally wrong. Life that's truly life, life in joy and peace, is actually about attaching yourself to the right kinds of restraints. That you can experience what it really means, in this case, to know and treasure Jesus.
Speaker 2:Okay. This is not have to stuff, this is get to stuff. I'll give you a couple of examples. Let's say, you're gonna take on an exercise routine. Okay.
Speaker 2:So last summer I became a runner, like for fitness, like no one was chasing me. An exercise routine is about saying, I'm gonna invite into my life these kinds of restraints, so that I can say, yes to true joy, true peace, in this case the the the peace and joy that comes with physical fitness and good health or whatever. Getting on a budget. Okay. This might make some of you squirm.
Speaker 2:But but getting on a budget is about saying, I'm gonna invite the right into my life so I can actually know the joy and the peace of knowing that I'm being a wise steward of my money. Okay? Writing yourself a note to to leave to get flowers for your your wife, for example. Okay. That's about adding a discipline into your life so that you can say yes to the joy of, in this case, loving your wife.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? You and I tend to think of it exactly opposite of that, we tend to think that if it has to be about discipline, somehow it weakens it. I mean, I'm a pastor, and you know how many times I've heard somebody say to me when it comes to spiritual disciplines, I just feel kind of bad, like, if if if I have to if I have to kinda like make myself do it, if I have to, then I don't really mean it in my heart. So therefore, do you all know that feeling? True joy, true peace is about inviting the right kind of restraints into your life.
Speaker 2:K? Discipline and delight go together. Discipline paves the way for delight. So when we're talking about spiritual disciplines, we're not talking about something we have to do. We're talking about a sweet invitation, something we get to do to participate in the very life of God.
Speaker 2:Y'all with me? K. K. Here's the second idea, something I want in your mind when you think of spiritual disciplines. Okay?
Speaker 2:I'll move a little quicker here. The idea of means and ends. Okay. The idea of means and ends. So the Bible teaches that God has ends, He has desires, He has things he wants to do.
Speaker 2:He's got plans that he's going to accomplish. Okay? The Bible talks about all these ends that God has, all these plans, desires that God has. But the Bible also talks about means by which God is going to accomplish those ends. Okay?
Speaker 2:And spiritual disciplines are these biblically grounded, historically in the history of the church affirmed, practical means by which the ends that God wants for your life as a Christian are accomplished. Okay. So there's there's 2 things that that God says about ends when it comes to you as a Christian person, if you're a Christian tonight. There's there's 2 things, he says that he is going to finish the work that he has started in you. He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it.
Speaker 2:When I sit down pastorally with people, I always get to encourage them with the idea that, you know that Jesus Christ has promised to finish the work He started in you. Well, what I'm telling you tonight is a way that he's going to finish the work that he started in you, is by the process of these disciplines in your life as means by which that end happens. There's another promise that that Jesus makes. In Ephesians, he says, that we, you and I are already seated with him in the heavenly places. Our sanctification, okay, our having been complete in Christ, is what sanctification means.
Speaker 2:Our sanctification, our full completion, our full having grown up into Jesus, the apostle Paul says, is already a done deal. Spiritual disciplines are a means by which you get to arrive at that place. Okay? The real you is already seated with Jesus in the heavenly places. And spiritual disciplines are the matcher, are the means of the maturation process of you getting to that great end.
Speaker 2:What we're saying to you guys this summer in this talk back series, is that reading scripture, prayer, the discipline of friendship and community, these are some means by which God wants to produce some ends in your life. So it's an encouragement to embrace these things. Here's the third thing. I'm pretty excited about this. I wanna talk about real quick, as a way to think of spiritual disciplines.
Speaker 2:I wanna talk about Vulcan and growing tomatoes. Alright? So, this right here is Vulcan. So my 4 year old son, Leland came by and drew this before. That's not true.
Speaker 2:I drew it. Okay. Alright. This is gonna be hard to explain, but it's been a kick I've been on for a while. So bear with me.
Speaker 2:K. The symbol that sits over our city is Vulcan, the god of the forge. K. It is a tip of the cap to Birmingham's industrial heritage. Right?
Speaker 2:Symbols that sit in cities actually have an amazing influence on the culture of any given city. Just trust me on that. Okay? My dad was an iron worker. Okay?
Speaker 2:So I know that of which I speak. Okay? He started at American Cast Iron Pump Company when he was 18 years old. He still works there to this day. The industrial mindset that I believe sits over even a city like Birmingham.
Speaker 2:The industrial mindset is about this, it's about saying, there are exact inputs, you know, coal, whatever, They're exact inputs that can be measured and burned at exact temperatures to create, you know, hot molten something, that can be put in an exact shape cast, that can be formed into a pipe, that can go down the assembly line and be sold as a product at an exact price to make an exact amount of profit for the company, and we all go home happy. The industrial mindset is about predictability, exactness, speed, efficiency. I mean, my my dad I'm sorry my throat's messed up, I'm sorry y'all. My dad, is in charge of maintenance at American Cast Iron Pipe Company. There's an exact number of dollars that the company loses for every minute a furnace is down.
Speaker 2:Okay. So why do I tell you this? For for a city like Birmingham to be understood as, kind of, a sleepy southern city, kind of behind the times, okay, you know how that narrative is told, my observation from years of doing ministry in this city and growing up in this city, is that Birminghamian people are surprisingly impatient with anything that's slow, takes a long time, and is invisible. It's like we have this deep pragmatic spirit about us, where it's just bottom line me, give me something that'll work. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Now, there's a major problem with this when it comes to thinking about spiritual disciplines. Almost all the Bible's metaphors for spiritual growth are not industrial, they're agricultural. Alright? So I started growing tomatoes. Do do do you know that tomatoes need a certain set of conditions to grow properly?
Speaker 2:They need a certain amount of sunlight, they need a certain amount of water, they need a certain kind of soil. Now you can do all those conditions and it's kinda unpredictable if the growth is gonna happen fast or not. It's slow, it's an arduous process. I I wanna make this point to you as a way of adjusting your expectations when it comes to spiritual disciplines. Okay?
Speaker 2:As a pastor, I've heard people say to me so many times, I mean, I've been reading my Bible, but I'm just not getting anything out of it. What if I told you that that maybe you'll begin to get the riches out of scripture maybe 20 years from now. What would you think if I told you that? Honestly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm out. That's crazy. Committing yourself to spiritual disciplines is about creating a kind of condition, a set of conditions in your life by which you're asking the Lord to work and help bring growth. It's not predictable. It's not exact.
Speaker 2:There's not an assembly line process of Christian discipleship. You go to a 5 week class and you come out at the end of that as mature Christian disciples. That's just not how it works. When we think about spiritual disciplines, we have to think about slowness. We have to think about invisibility.
Speaker 2:We have to think about, like, an inability to control outcomes exactly. Does that make sense? So you're locking into a process that requires a great deal of patience. Alright. So that's it's three things I want you to think in spiritualism.
Speaker 2:Not have to, but get to means and ends in the idea of slow invisible conditions of growth. Prayer, friendship, scripture reading, these are these are these kinds of things. Okay? Alright. Alright.
Speaker 2:So that's 18 minutes in. Okay. So we're gonna switch we're gonna switch here and I'm gonna do something awesome. And I'm gonna flip this board for you. And we're gonna talk about reading scripture.
Speaker 2:Okay. I want to read you another text to ground some of these thoughts about reading scripture. Okay. This is from Deuteronomy chapter 6. The famous creed of ancient Israel, the Shema, the the here.
Speaker 2:Here's what it says, verse 4. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is 1. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. And here's the thing for tonight, and these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, you shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Speaker 2:You shall bind them. As a sign on your hand, they shall be written as frontlets before your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your houses and gates. The greatest commandment in the Bible, to love God with all your heart, the immediate action step to that is to keep God's words before you all the time. That is that is that is, emphatic language of saying, you're you're never not living a life that's not in conversation with scripture.
Speaker 2:It's always before you, you're thinking about it all the time. So when I'm talking about reading scripture, I really wanna talk about it a little more broadly. I'm gonna talk to you about some things about when you're gonna study scripture, but I wanna encourage you to study scripture, I wanna encourage you to memorize scripture, I wanna encourage you to take 6 months and read, like, a paragraph of scripture, and just read it one word at a time for, like, weeks at a time, like a slow chew on scripture. I wanna encourage you, Okay. Listen.
Speaker 2:I wanna encourage you, when you go to church on a Sunday, I wanna encourage you to take a second when you hear the opening scripture and prayer read. I want you to encourage you to say take a second and and pause, and almost bring your eyes to tears over the just utter sacredness of a moment when you're gonna hear the very word of God read out loud to you. I wanna talk to you about I I wanna I wanna keep in view when someone proclaims, chooses scripture to you in, like, a preaching moment. We're talking about the the the the the Bible being before your eyes all the time, before your life all the time. Okay?
Speaker 2:So I'm talking about all those things right now. Alright. First thing, when when we talk about reading scripture, now I'm not very technique y. Okay? So these are not so much like techniques.
Speaker 2:This this one is going to be slightly more technique y, these 2, but this is more like habits for reading scripture. These are framework things for reading scripture. When you think about reading the Bible, I want these things to form a framework for how you're going to engage. Okay? So the first thing we have to talk about is our posture when we come to scripture.
Speaker 2:Okay? The Bible describes God's word as a very extension of his person and character. K? In other words, the Bible is not like any other book. See, any other book, what we can do, and as modern people we're really tempted to do this, as modern people we think we can stand over or apart from the book, read it, diagnose it, decide if we think it's good or bad, or makes any sense, or applies to our life.
Speaker 2:And we can kind of distance ourself in order to evaluate the book. I mean, literally, modernity gave you that notion, something we can talk about in q and a. The Bible's not like that, actually. Okay. The Bible goes on to say that whenever God's word is being taught, proclaimed, heard, read, studied, chewed on, prayed through, the Holy Spirit is literally at work to create people's hearts anew to form Christian churches.
Speaker 2:The Bible has a creative power to it. In other words, when you go to reading scripture, the first step is taking a posture of humility, taking a posture of an orientation to obey it in advance? Does that make sense? Like part of what will help unlock the meaning of the Bible to you, Part of what will unlock the meaning of the Bible to you is for you to already be committed to obeying it when you start reading it. See, we think it's opposite of that.
Speaker 2:We think we're gonna evaluate it and then decide if we're gonna obey it. You won't really get the Bible if you approach it that way. The Bible has to be read from a posture of of willing to obey it. In other words, we have to approach the Bible with some respect to the subject matter of the Bible, which is God. And our posture has reflect that.
Speaker 2:Thomas Cranmer, who's a famous English reformer, he wrote a lot of brilliant things about this. But Thomas Cranmer was a really smart guy and he lived in the in what was becoming the enlightenment, the age of reason, and all these things. And someone asked him one time, what is the number And Thomas Kramer is a brilliant person, He knows Hebrew and Greek and all these things. They asked him one time, what's the most important skill a person needs to have? Or what's the most important ability a person needs to have to understand the Bible?
Speaker 2:Now, you and I hear that question, and as modern people we immediately think, oh, they need to know Greek, they need to know Hebrew, they need to have this kind of thorough education in the scriptures, which I think all of that is awesome. But it's noteworthy that Cranmer heard that question and said, oh, humility. Easy. Humility. It's the number one thing you gotta have to read the Bible.
Speaker 2:We have to come to the Bible, as a result of these things, prayerfully, with spiritual eyes, asking the Holy Spirit to illuminate. When you're a redeemer and someone have you ever noticed this happens at Redeemer? Somebody reads a passage of scripture and then someone prays before they preach from it. Have you ever seen that happen? They're not just killing time, They're asking the spirit to illumine the words, because that needs to happen to understand it.
Speaker 2:That's an actual real life prayer, asking God to do something. We have to read the Bible in a posture. In other words, we can't read the Bible like it's any other book. It's not. Okay.
Speaker 2:Second thing here. 9th grade. How many people remember 9th grade? Okay. Show of hands.
Speaker 2:For how many people was 9th grade an awesome memory? Like, one person. Okay. How many people 9th grade was the worst grade you can imagine? K.
Speaker 2:How many people don't really have an opinion on this and just sit there? K. So here's the point I wanna make here. I just told you can't read the Bible like it's any other book. There's a degree to which you have to read the Bible like it's any other book.
Speaker 2:When I was in 9th grade, I had a teacher named miss Foster, and she taught me how to read a book. Christians historically have been called people of the book. Whenever Christian mission goes out to the ends of the earth, adult literacy classes and literacy classes for children typically follow those efforts, because we're a people of the book. When I was in 9th grade, I learned how to read a book. And you're going to have to pull out some of those things you learned from back in 9th grade, when you try to try to read the Bible.
Speaker 2:I made you guys a little handout of key questions that you want to ask when you're reading certain parts of the Bible. Okay? Let me give you just a quick rundown of those. So for example, narrative. The majority of the Bible is a narrative.
Speaker 2:Okay? So narratives are stories. You've got to think through, okay, well, what does it mean to read a story? So for example, Old Testament stories, this is just kind of a fun fact, it's reflected on this handout. Old Testament stories are particular kind of story, they're Hebrew narratives.
Speaker 2:Hebrew narratives are all about dialogue between characters. Okay? So when you're reading an Old Testament story, what you're wanting to pay attention to is what are the characters saying back and forth to one another. Perfect example, the maybe best example, when Eve is talking with the serpent, there's so much conversation that goes back and forth there, The action of that story is that she saw it, she took it, she ate it. See, like, American stories are all about the action or the cycle, like the psychoanalyzation of characters.
Speaker 2:Hebrew stories are about the dialogue between characters. That's where the emphasis lies. K. So you're gonna have to learn to read, you know, in a in a deep way to engage scripture. Here's another example, Old Testament poetry, the Psalms.
Speaker 2:Old Testament poetry, for example, and the Psalms in particular, really build on this idea of parallelism. In other words, there's gonna be there's gonna be 2 lines that are side by side. That's why when you look at the Psalms, you'll see that it's kind of in couplets, 2 line batches on down. Okay? So So when you're reading Old Testament poetry, you're gonna be trying to say, what relationship did these lines have with one another?
Speaker 2:I'll give you an example. Psalm, Psalm 131. Okay? Psalm 131. How blessed it is when brother that's not 131, 133.
Speaker 2:How blessed it is when brothers dwell together in unity. It's like the oil that runs down Aaron's beard. And then there's a second line that says, like the dew that goes down from Mount Hermon. There's some relationship between oil on beard and dew on Herman that you're supposed to grapple with. The lines will either restate it the same way for repetition, which is emphasis, or it will develop the idea in some way by intensifying it, or even or even having a note of contrast from it.
Speaker 2:I could go on and on about this. Okay? When you're reading Old Testament prophecy, all the Old Testament prophets, there's kinda like a cycle. It's like a u shaped cycle. Are we in warning here?
Speaker 2:Are we in judgment here? Are we in restoration here? Like, where do we fit in judgment? Are we at warning? Are we at are we at the judgment, or are we at the restoration?
Speaker 2:You have to kind of think through how how Old Testament prophecy functioned in that way. There's the gospel stories, there's things to pay attention to in gospel stories. In gospel stories, what portrait of Jesus is being painted here? And what does that mean about following him? New testament letters, like Romans or Ephesians.
Speaker 2:You gotta ask yourself, what's being argued here? Like, what case is being made here? Okay. Apocalyptic literature like the book of Revelation. Here's what you have to ask when you read the book of Revelation.
Speaker 2:You have to ask yourself, what old testament illusion is being made here? There's some statistic out there, and I I don't know the exact numbers, but it's something like this. There's something like a 150 verses in Revelation, but there's like a 175 old testament illusions. You have to be able to grapple with just simple reading things. And everything I just told you is not something I just know because I'm a seminary person.
Speaker 2:Like, this stuff can be found and accessed. I have resources for you to look at that are accessible. I only brought accessible resources for you. That you can learn these things, like you can read the Bible, you can. It's gonna take work, you're gonna have to dig around in the dirt to use the growing tomatoes illustration, you're gonna have to wait, you're gonna have
Jeffrey Heine:to gain skill
Speaker 2:as a reader of the it's a skill that they develop over time. That's why your grandmother is a better reader of the Bible than you. She's been reading it longer. She's developed the skills. My grandmother, I did some some postgraduate work in the Psalms.
Speaker 2:And my grandmother will tell me things about the Psalms I never even thought of. It's a skill you develop over time. You become a good reader of the Bible. If you feel like you're a bad reader of the Bible, it's okay. Take heart.
Speaker 2:You got your whole life of pursuing Jesus to work on it. It's okay. Alright. So so, look, So we come to the bible with a posture of humility, we began to try to actually read it. Asking questions, highlighting things, studying it deeply.
Speaker 2:And then we wanna chew on it a little bit. Okay? The the bible will call the idea of chewing on the words of scripture scripture meditation. The word literally is to gnaw on it, like a dog would with a bone. You know, you know when a dog, gnaws on a bone, it makes that rumbling noise, like, that thing?
Speaker 2:That's literally what the word meditation is. So you're gonna read the Bible, and you're gonna just let it, like, rumble in your heart. Okay? And in a way that I that I try to let the Bible rumble in my heart, I'm going to give you kind of a method here. I like to talk about reading the Bible in layers.
Speaker 2:K? Reading the Bible in layers. Let me explain what I mean. So this is a this is a method of reading scripture that was born in the middle ages, actually. Okay.
Speaker 2:This is kind of a little more of an ancient way of reading scripture. And the middle age the the medieval scriptural interpreters created this nursery rhyme in order to help people know, like, the, kind of, fourfold layers of reading the Bible. So here was the nursery rhyme. It went like this. The letter shows us what the fathers did.
Speaker 2:The spirit shows us where our faith is hid. The moral shows us how we live our life, and they kinda said the the term was anagogy. Don't worry about that. The anagogy shows us where we end our strife. K.
Speaker 2:Let me explain that. The letter, the spirit, the moral, and then the, well, I'll just call it the future hope. K? So I like to think of it in terms of, k, the letter, spirit, moral, and then future. K.
Speaker 2:When you're reading the Bible, the letter like like, read the words. What do the words say? You you break down the words. What are the words actually saying here? Okay?
Speaker 2:The spiritual meaning is a step further where you think about, okay, these words tell me exactly what about the character of God. See, the Bible stories are about putting God's character on display for you. Like, it's his way of working in the world, it's kind of God's MO, that's what the Bible stories are. Okay? The moral is saying, okay, so how does this affect the actual life?
Speaker 2:Is there is there something that I'm supposed to do out of this? Is there something I'm supposed to obey out of this? What implications does this have for the actual lived experience of faith? And then the future hope is, in what way does this text point me to that day, when you have a resurrected body in a new heavens and new earth, and where the Bible says you're actually gonna see Jesus' face. Can I give you an example of how this works?
Speaker 2:Is that okay? So take the story of when the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea. I'm gonna take that story and I'm gonna put it through this this layer grid thing. Okay. The people of Israel crossed the Red Sea.
Speaker 2:What was the Red Sea? You know, what were the circumstances there? What was Who was Pharoah? Who was Moses? Who was the children of Israel?
Speaker 2:Like you just kinda break down what just happened in the story. They're they're on their way, they get stopped at the Red Sea. Moses stretches out of his hands in the sea parts and they're able to pass through on dry land. That's all kind of the letter, like, what just happened? The spiritual meaning is saying, What does this Red Sea story teach me about the way that God works in the world?
Speaker 2:Well look, it looks like God presents himself in this story as the great rescuer of his people, the great deliverer of his people. And then you can think through what it means that god has delivered. The moral is where you take it into your life and it looks something like this, God has also delivered me. And I bet that I can trust him when it comes to x, y, and z in my life. If he's the great deliverer of this thing that I'm facing, I can probably trust him, if he's the kind of God that delivers.
Speaker 2:And the future is saying, no matter how hard your life becomes, he one day has promised to deliver you fully and finally from the curse of sin and evil and death. Do you see how I just kinda worked it through that layer? To me that's a helpful way to think about how you read the Bible. Okay? Read it in layers.
Speaker 2:Alright. 2 more kinda quicker points. Signs. At some point you have to ask yourself the question, and this is kind of a Tim Kellerism right here, what I'm about to tell you. You have to ask yourself the question, what is the Bible ultimately about?
Speaker 2:Is the Bible ultimately about this is Keller, and I quote, Is the Bible ultimately about you and what you're supposed to be doing? Or is it ultimately about God as revealed in the person and work of Jesus and what he has done. Okay? This is a Charles Spurgeon thing I'm about to say. All the parts of the Bible are like roads.
Speaker 2:And eventually and and and it's like and, yes, like roads. And there are signs, like like a paragraph here, a story here, a poem here, a psalm there, are like signs on that road that's pointing you somewhere. And according to Spurgeon, all those roads and all those signs are pointing you ultimately to the person and work of Jesus. So when you go to read the Bible, you've gotta read it in view of Jesus and what Jesus has done. Okay?
Speaker 2:Saint Irenaeus, who was a famous early church father, he liked to tell this story of a mosaic. You know, like a mosaic is a piece of artwork that has all these tiny little pieces. Does that make sense? And he talked about how imagine that there was a a great wealthy person who got a mosaic from some artist, And it came to him in a box with all these pieces. And he talked about how, like, the scriptures are kinda like all the pieces.
Speaker 2:The Exodus story here, first Samuel there, Romans there. And honestly, you can arrange all those pieces kinda any way you want. Right? That's why people can use the Bible to kinda make a case for almost any crazy thing you can imagine. What Irenaeus said is something that you know instinctively if you've ever put together a puzzle, that the way to figure out what it's about is to know what it's supposed to be of.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? When you put together a puzzle, first thing you do what's the first thing you do? Most people say in that moment when I ask that, find the corner pieces, which that works. But what I'm going for is look at the picture on the front. And finding the corner pieces, we can probably apply that somehow to this.
Speaker 2:Okay? What what Irenaeus said is, you have to know that that mosaic in his illustration is a portrait of a great king. Because if you don't know it's a portrait of a great king, you'll take all the pieces and you'll make it look like a, in his case, an ugly fox. You have to know what the Bible's actually about. Okay?
Speaker 2:Saint Augustine said this, it's a Latin phrase, signum res, the the words are a sign. The stories in scripture are signs that point you to the ultimate revelation of the person and work of Jesus. So when you're reading a story about King David, you need to let that story of King David be what it is, actually. You're not supposed to just say, well, I know David's only a pre cursor of Jesus, so I'm not worried about David. That's not what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to say, how does the David story provide a unique and discreet witness to the person and work of Jesus one day? Okay? And then let me just add one more thing to that. Not only is the Bible trying to get you to see the person and work of Jesus, and this, kind of, goes full circle back to the first thing. It's actually asking you then to submit your entire life to his lordship.
Speaker 2:That's what it's asking you to do. The Bible, when you begin to read it, is asking you to see, and to seek, and to savor, and submit your life to Jesus. That's what that's what it's trying to do to you. K. As a pastor, I'm not your pastor, I'm some of your pastor, I I would encourage you to do that.
Speaker 2:To submit your life to him as soon as you can. Last thing, Reading the Bible with others. Okay. Reading the Bible with others. And this is, like, I'm not really, like, a a math guy.
Speaker 2:Okay. So this is kinda simple math to me. I don't know if it's math, maybe it's physics, science, I don't know. If the Holy Spirit is alive inside of me, illuminating the words of scripture. And the holy spirit is alive in Dwight, illuminating the words of scripture.
Speaker 2:And the Holy Spirit is alive in Josh, illuminating the words of scripture. The Holy Spirit is alive in Hayden or Mandy or Kelly or Abigail. If if the Holy Spirit is alive inside of these people, illuminating the works of scripture, it makes sense to me that when we're in a circle together, there's more light. See, it's simple math, or science, or physics or chemistry or biology or photo engineering or something. I would just really encourage you to read the Bible in community with others.
Speaker 2:The idea of you having a personal copy of your Bible, that you can have an individual experience of the Bible, you can have an individual experience of the Bible. I actually, I strongly recommend that. I think you should do that as a spiritual discipline in your life. But it's just worth noting that's a relatively new idea in the history of Christianity. The printing press didn't come around till 1500, Affordable books didn't come around till the 1800.
Speaker 2:So let's think through, not only do we read individually, but let's read individually and bring our individual reading in community. Here's a just a simple thing I'd recommend any of you do. Ask 4 friends to get together and read, say, the gospel of John together. There's something that happens when we read the Bible with others. Some kind of illuminating work that happens.
Speaker 2:I want And it's simple. I encourage you to do it. Alright. It's about posture, it's about asking hard questions of the text and really reading it. It's about thinking of it in layers, it's about letting the roads take you, point look at the signs to Jesus, and it's about reading with others.
Speaker 2:Those are just five things I think are really helpful when it comes to reading scripture. Okay? That's all I have to say. We're going to take a break. Jeff, do you want to say anything before?
Speaker 2:Okay. A quick break, like 5 minutes, and then we're gonna ask some questions. One of the great things about doing a talk back is is I don't I don't feel like I had to say everything. I mean, I scratched off 75% of things, because I knew you'd ask great questions, so ask good questions. Okay?
Speaker 2:5 minutes.
Jeffrey Heine:Alright. So now is the time for q and a. Time to be brave. Time to be bold. You're all hopped up on sugar and you're ready to go.
Jeffrey Heine:Speaking of, hopped up and ready to go, this is the time for questions, and, this is not your opportunity to have a lecture and a talk back. If you're interested in that, talk to me afterwards. But this is a time for questions. So, we would love for whatever questions you've had, maybe it's something that you would like for Busby to to clarify or to speak more about a particular thing, or maybe your question is just related to your own experiences, with spiritual disciplines or, with reading God's word. And so it can, you know, explore, wherever, your question might be coming from.
Jeffrey Heine:So, we'll just kinda take it by raising your hand? We'll get a microphone over to you and you'll stand up, ask your question, like the brave soldier that you are. Okay? Alright. So, first question.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so what I'm about to tell you is, again, a Thomas Cranmer thing, and it's something that I that I learned from a church historian named Ashley Knoll. And he kind of talked about I think I have to draw it. So, okay. So you all know about the enlightenment.
Speaker 2:Right? Y'all know about that? It's a movement that basically put human reason at the forefront of all that was true and, like, human reason is the only way you can know a thing. It's kinda what enlightenment was about. Descartes, I think, therefore I am.
Speaker 2:It's a way of understanding people as primarily thinkers. Okay. So basically, what modernity basically tries to get you to think is that, it goes like this, mind,
Speaker 3:will,
Speaker 2:heart. Okay? So here's Ashley Knoll says it. What the this is what it means to be a modern person actually. You primarily think that human beings are thinkers, so you think, what the mind understands, the will will choose, and then the heart will kinda learn to love it.
Speaker 2:Okay? So so here's here's the best way of debunking this way of people being. Cheeseburgers. That's it. We understand they are bad for us.
Speaker 2:We eat them. We love them. Okay? If if modern people were really this way, you wouldn't have cheese I mean, you know, I'm just apply this to anything. This is not how people are.
Speaker 2:Okay. Cranmer, Ashley Knoll, who got this from Cranmer, who got it from Augustine, who I'd say got it from apostle Paul, who I think gets it from Jesus and, you know, I guess, says that human beings are primarily heart people, followed by will people, followed by mind people. So Wayne Kramer Wayne Ashley Knowles says it, is what the heart loves, the will chooses, and then the mind justifies. Isn't this more how you are? Be honest.
Speaker 2:Say absolutely. Okay. So when we come to the Bible as modern people, a lot of times what we think is we're going to detach ourselves from our, kind of like, our desires and our loves, and we're going to think about these things reasonably, and we're gonna stand over these things as the human reason person over this ancient book. Another thing about modernity is, modernity assumes anything new is immediately better. Okay.
Speaker 2:It's really amazing. You could read Roman historians who wrote 2000 years ago, and they would talk about the pyramids in Egypt 5000 years ago, and Roman historians would would say, we've gotten so much dumber, we could never do what the Egyptians did. The modern world assumes anything newer is better. Do you all know what I'm saying? You assume the newer iPhone is automatically better because you believe in this notion of Anyway, I could go on and on about this.
Speaker 2:But but we think, we think as modern people, that we're going to stand over the Bible, evaluate it, decide if we like what it says, and then we will learn to love obedience. What I'm trying to tell you is that we have to understand that primarily we're lovers in desires. And if we start with a posture of loving God, and choosing at the beginning to follow him, it unlocks understanding for us when it comes to reading scripture. Have you ever noticed how when you read the bible by yourself, you can get the bible to say the things that you wanted to say so that you can go about doing whatever you wanted to do anyway? Have you ever noticed how you were good at that?
Speaker 2:I I've noticed how I'm good at that too. That's why you have to start with a with a love for God. That's how Deuteronomy starts. Right? Love your Lord your God.
Speaker 2:And then with an orientation to obey him in a submissive posture as a way to gain the understanding. So for example, and I don't I don't I'm just this is gonna be somewhat of a can of worms. I'm just gonna say it really quick, and then you can ask me after. Like Stanley Hauerwas, he's a theologian. And he he's famous for saying that you won't really understand, say, the Sermon on the Mount unless you're already committed to obeying it.
Speaker 2:So for example, if you're committed already to turning the other cheek, you'll understand the Sermon on the Mount. If you don't wanna commit to turning the other cheek, you're gonna think that Sermon on the Mount's about something different. That's just an example of how we kinda preload what we wanna do anyway. So we have to we have to do heart work before we can really do understanding work. Is that helpful, Beach?
Speaker 4:So in in your talk and with that question, like, you've kinda mentioned a lot of things that modernity has kinda tainted reading the Bible or made it harder to read the Bible. So I wanna know if modernity has given us anything better about reading the Bible or if we're just kinda toast.
Speaker 2:Great question, Brad. I wanna think about how I wanna say this. So I would say I would say the gifts of modern biblical scholarship, the gifts of research, the discovery of things like the Dead Sea Scrolls, which unlocked so much of how the Hebrew Bible worked. I would say the idea that 500 years ago, you wouldn't be able to have a table of accessible resources for you. So I would say, sure.
Speaker 2:God, in his providence, has used the workings of history to preserve his word for us and given us some amazing tools. Where I come short, or where I want to, like, hesitate, is to sort of assume that the ancients who didn't have those tools weren't as good readers of the Bible as we were, because I don't think that's true. Okay? So like John Calvin, for example. Calvin knew, like, even even the reformers, part of the genius of the reformation is it recovered critical languages, like Greek and Hebrew, like it it it it helped create new additions of the Bible, it helped clarify meaning, it did amazing things.
Speaker 2:And Calvin was really good at the languages, for example. But Calvin also would quote the authority of somebody like Augustine, who didn't know as much as he knew about the Hebrew, for example. So I say the modern world, God and his grace has given us so many things in the modern world, given us, you know, abundant riches to to Dobner's word, that's all really good. But I think we take those things and remember some of the bad things, and kind of take it, you know, a little bit of a little bit of give and take there. It's a good question.
Speaker 5:One of the things I kinda struggle with when I sit down for my quiet times, I often find myself turning to CS Lewis or John you know, whoever, the list is long, and not going straight to the bible just because it's easier to read a lot of those authors. How do you kind of strike the right balance to make sure that, you know, you can go to topical books sometimes, but you're not getting secondhand scripture?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a really great question. I would wanna do like a both and there. When you said that, how do we strike a balance? So I I wanna do some both and there.
Speaker 2:So I think it's really good to use the wisdom of the tradition, is what we would call it, you know. We are heirs of a tradition. Have you ever you ever think about this? We didn't just make up Christianity recently. People have reflected on the scriptures and there's a a tradition that you and I are heirs of.
Speaker 2:And because we're heirs of it, we're we're stewards of it. And because we're stewards of it, with God's help, we can give it away to others. So the tradition's good, like so, reading it Augustine, reading it to Cecil's, I think that's all that's good. I would just say that there is something special and unique about the kind of first hand knowledge that you gain from reading God's word. I just think there's something special about that.
Speaker 2:You know, the reason why seminary students read, like learn Greek and Hebrew, it it's not because by knowing Greek and Hebrew, we have a better translation, like, it's not that me as a pastor preacher, it's not because I know Greek and Hebrew, all of a sudden I know some secret thing in the Bible you don't know. That's really not it. The reason you have Greek and Hebrew is because it makes reading the Psalms such a slow slog of a process that's painstaking. And it just gives you, like, more, like, surface area, like, of your life against it. I don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 2:It's it's a way of eating it up. Like, I mean, I seriously think of it that way. Like, if I could eat the Psalms, particularly 120 to 134, if I could eat them up, I would. So, I guess that's a weird way to answer your question. I I know it's that.
Speaker 2:But it's something about the the the being able to be in it for yourself to see it, that I just will tell you, you won't be disappointed. Like that will give you sweet reward over a long time. So I would say, you know, the balance is, let's just let's just kind of engage both the tradition, but let's let's engage the scriptures too. Sort of both and there. I think that's an awesome question.
Speaker 6:Hey. Thank you for doing this talk. In a world surrounded by media noise, how can we develop patience to enjoy God's word?
Speaker 2:In a world surrounded by noise, how do we develop patience to enjoy God's word? Yeah. So first of all, I just wanna say I understand what you're asking because okay. And maybe this is just me, but I have a feeling it's not. Have you ever been reading the Bible, and the next thing you know you're ordering like shoes, and you don't know how you got there?
Speaker 2:Is that is that just me? Or, you know, it applies to prayer too. Like like, I'm in a time of prayer with the Lord and next thing I know I'm, like, eating at Saul's Barbecue, and I don't know how I got there. The Internet is shaping your brain. It's a fact.
Speaker 2:K. Nicholas Carr wrote a really good book called The Shallows that explains what the Internet is doing to your brain. And most especially, the Internet is wiring your brain and it's rewarding shallow reading over deep reading. Okay? So for example, when you're reading a blog post, you see the link.
Speaker 2:It's literally training your brain to see a few lines of text to get to go to a different text, to get to go to a different text. And in the in the in the Internet rewards that kind of reading with, like, new stimuli, new does that make sense? So what I'd say is, this is where I'm gonna say, don't beat yourself up so much. Okay. Like like, handle what you can handle in pieces.
Speaker 2:Train yourself to be able to read the Bible longer. If you walk out of this talk and you say, you know, I'm so inspired. Joel Busby said, the bible is a very extension of God's character. I'm gonna read an hour and a half tomorrow at 5 AM. I'm gonna say, man, I don't want you to set yourself up to be so crushed.
Speaker 2:Like like, what I what I want you to do is I want you to say okay. So Psalm Psalm 131, 3 verses. Oh, lord. My heart is not lifted up. My eyes are not raised too high.
Speaker 2:I do not occupy myself with things too marvelous for me. I have calmed and quietened my soul like a weaned child with its mother. Like a weaned child with its mother is my soul within me. Oh, Israel, hope in the Lord. And and tomorrow, read that.
Speaker 2:And then and then Tuesday, read it again. And then Wednesday, read it again and see if something sticks out to you different. And then Thursday, maybe just focus on on verse 2. Like, just begin eating it. Like, I have a 2 year old daughter.
Speaker 2:She's the most beautiful little girl you've ever seen in your life. Okay? People at Grace Fellowship can attest to this. Okay? I I I I she says to me she says, daddy cut it.
Speaker 2:Like, when I give her food, she says, daddy cut it. She she has to eat it in smaller bites. And I would say if you struggle with your attention span, if you struggle with patience, if you struggle with distraction, do what you can do and acquire the taste to do it more and more. That's that's how I'd answer that. I think it's a great question.
Speaker 2:Hi. Hey, Paige.
Speaker 7:Kind of on that note, I would love to hear your thoughts on different types of bible reading. So, like, you were just talking about, like, a deep study versus, like, a bible reading plan versus I'm gonna read, like, just this psalm today or just kind of, like, varying seasons versus, like, different books that you might be reading. Like, what's kind of the wisdom? How do we, like, sort through when to study, when to just, like, read an entire book?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. So I she asked for my thoughts on this. I'll give you my thoughts on this.
Speaker 2:Like, I don't I don't know if this would necessarily work for you, but I would try to think of it like you think of eating at restaurants or something, you know. There there are times where you need a quicker meal at an affordable price, if you will. There are times you want a slower dinner. Like, I I would just say mix and match things. So for example, I have a couple of patterns in my life that I've started to practice, that I'd recommend to you.
Speaker 2:So every Lenten season, I spend 40 days in Lent reading slowly one of the passion narratives. Okay. The the story of Jesus' final days. So like 4 years ago, I did Matthew. 3 years ago, I did Mark.
Speaker 2:You know, last year I did gospel of John. This year I did Luke. And and I've done that every year, you know, for 10 years maybe. So that's more like a a consistent pattern in my life, where I'm going to be in one section of scripture for a pretty long amount of time. I do a lot of very short daily Psalms.
Speaker 2:Like honestly, y'all, from Psalm 120 to 134, they're called the Psalms of ascent. They were these songs, little songs, they were all very short, that were really intended to be a kind of like as you go kind of thing. So so take little bits, you know, to begin your day or something like that. I I think it's, I think it's wise to to maybe maybe maybe at some point in your year, decide you want to do a more thorough reading of a book, you know what I mean. Like in 2020, I think I'd like to get in the book of Ephesians, and just just read Ephesians.
Speaker 2:I mean, I I would just say, mix up a whole diet. Think of it like a diet, like, there are gonna be some times where you want to get lost in whatever is going on. Like like, why is it that there's such a comparison in contrast between David and Saul in first Samuel? There's something going on there. Everything Saul is not David is.
Speaker 2:Everything that David is, Saul isn't. There's something happening here. What is that about? What is the David Saul narrative about? I'm really asking this right now.
Speaker 2:I really can't get my mind around it. Somehow Saul somehow Saul treats God like he's a thing. Somehow David treats God like he's a person. And I think that's more what it means to be a man after God's own heart, not being perfect. K.
Speaker 2:Sorry. That's a slow read of a particular section. And that's something I'm doing. I'm reading 1st Samuel right now. And then and then other time Yeah, I just say, think of it like a diet.
Speaker 2:Mix and match, all different kind of ways. There's different resources that help you on all that. And but I would say just in what you can digest and and do. Don't make yourself feel bad about it. I mean, anytime you think about spiritual disciplines, don't make yourself feel bad.
Speaker 2:I remember I used to feel so bad when I would try to have times of prayer early in the morning, and I'd be asleep on my couch. I feel so horrible about that. My children fall asleep in my lap and I'm honored by that. You know what I mean? Kind of a weepy mess tonight.
Speaker 2:Okay? So so do what you can do. That's what I'd say.
Speaker 3:So I guess with, 2 ideas kind of with scripture that you sometimes hear about, like, scripture is powerful and authoritative. How do those things factor into the way that we approach the Bible or read it? What does it mean for scripture to have power over us or for scripture to be an authority over us?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, you know, if you noticed, I didn't really try to make a case for the Bible's authority tonight or its truthfulness or its some people like using words infallibility and errancy. I don't really try to make a case for that. I kind of assumed that. I've assumed we're kinda on that page.
Speaker 2:We could talk about it a long time. But I would say, the authority and power piece, the way I'd answer your question right now, how does the authority and power piece play into how we read scripture? Well, I think it's kind of similar to what I said about posture. It affects the posture by which you approach it, but but I'd also say it it adds this kind of layer of, I don't really wanna miss out on the riches. You know?
Speaker 2:I mean, if if the Bible has a power to as it says in the book of or or as it says in first Timothy, as it says in the book of Hebrews that it's able to pierce, that it's useful for all these things. It's like if it's got that kind of power to shape your soul, I would just encourage you not to miss that. Not to miss that is kinda how I'd wanna answer that. It's a good question.
Speaker 8:I really liked what you talked about, how scripture can be agricultural in a industrious, world. And, my question is just kind of about that. So in the moments where it seems like the soil is dry or, the promise of the return is perhaps far off. I'm wondering how we sort of stir one another up, or like, stir our hearts again in the moments where it's, tough. Just sort of a practical type of
Speaker 2:Yeah. Man, that's so good. Yeah. So, I mean, I could ask you, have you ever read the Bible and felt like you got nothing out of it? And did you ever feel that way for like 10 years, you know?
Speaker 2:The Bible teaches that God is a rewarder of those who seek him. So there's a kinda hope there. And the thing about Christian hope that makes it so difficult, okay, is that Christian hope is a deferred hope. It's something later. And I just wanna acknowledge before everybody how very hard that is.
Speaker 2:K? But god is a rewarder of those who seek him. My immediate answer to this is the Psalms, honestly. So there are Psalms. K?
Speaker 2:They're gonna fall the bulk of them are gonna fall between, say, Psalm 45 and, like, 109 that are gonna just express exactly what you said. I feel so dry. I mean I mean, Psalm 13. How long, oh Lord, will you forget me forever? Why do you hide your face from me?
Speaker 2:And I would say, just take whatever those thoughts and those experiences you're having. In that case, it's dryness and it's deferredness, like later. And I would just say, go to the places in the Bible that has given you the exact way to be in God's word in that place. And And as far as how you do it with each other, there's something really great about Christian community in knowing that if you're if you're in a season of not sensing God's presence, you absolutely you absolutely know God's presence is real because you see it in another person and just stay in community. I I think that's I just appreciate that question.
Speaker 2:I think it's really good. Thanks. All the Psalms are called the Psalms of Lament, and they're just a bunch of them loaded in that one section of the Psalms. I
Speaker 6:have a question. It's less about, spiritual discipline of reading your the scripture, but more about spiritual disciplines as a whole. I find it hard to have time just to spend 5 minutes reading my bible a lot of times, and we haven't even got into prayer and meditation, fasting, and other things. How do you end up balancing all the different spiritual disciplines in your life apart from scripture reading when you're already very busy and hard to hard to get it all worked in.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right. We all remind me of something. There's something I might wanna say later. Y'all just say remember the thing if I decide to say it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, Tyler, what I would say about that is is there a place somewhere that says you're supposed to do all of them? That's my first thing. So, like, I think it's okay to get with your your wife, in this case, Allison, or or your your fellow elders, good friends, and just say, hey, y'all see things that maybe I don't see. And and is there a particular discipline you might really encourage me to pursue this year?
Speaker 2:And, and let that be what it is. So for example, I'll be honest with you. I'll be vulnerable here. Somebody really encouraged me to pursue a discipline more times of the spiritual discipline of silence and solitude. So this is when you're, like, literally gonna go somewhere and not talk to anybody and not read anything in this case and and just I mean, what are you even gonna do?
Speaker 2:Right? Like, be, you know. But it was a friend who told me, Busby, I just think you need more reflection in your life. And, he had some very direct reasons he thought that. And the bible says that wounds from a friend can be trusted and he's right.
Speaker 2:And so I would say I would say, you know, a way to kind of balance them all is maybe don't try to do that. Maybe pursue 1, or 2, like, you know. I mean, I think to a degree, like, you can kinda count coming to church and hearing God's word preach. Like time in the Bible too, you know. So so maybe in 2020, you know, maybe I'm gonna pursue, something, you know.
Speaker 2:I would just say, try to think through ones you might need for certain reasons. And I think I I believe there is something probably to the primacy of something like prayer and and and reading God's word. But I would I would just say seek some help some from some for some friends about the kind of discipline you actually need based on what they see in you? That's just the first thought I had. That's a good question, Tyler.
Speaker 9:I would say just, memorization of scripture. So, like, how do you structure that? If you're witnessing to someone and, like, oh, yeah. It was back in Romans, and it's talking about this, and, you know, you would love to to be able to say. And and anytime that you need it for any time of temptation, or anytime that you that that's necessary, that it should be able to come to your mind and you can recite it.
Speaker 9:So just how do you structure memorization of scripture as you're reading scripture?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think I think you have to have an honest, like an honest evaluation of how good you are at retaining what you read. I mean, I just think you have to be honest about that. Right? So some people can read things and they will always know it in their mind.
Speaker 2:There are people like that. There are people who have to work harder than that. So I think you gotta be honest with yourself. So then if you gotta work harder that you're gonna have to look to some other tools. So tools like, this is how I memorize everything I had to memorize in school, I would have to write it a 1,000 times, you know, write it, write it, write it, write it, or repeat it.
Speaker 2:They say if you repeat something, you you know, 15 times, if you write it 7 or whatever it is. I would just say you have to think through what you might need in addition. Okay. But but I also would say, there's and you will understand this because of what you do for a living, but like there's just no substitute for doing the work, you know, for for sitting there. And if you wanna memorize Psalm 131, to just take time and memorize Psalm 131.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, scripture memory is a hard thing. But once you get in a kind of a groove of it, it's kind of interesting, like it it gets easier for you, actually. And what a precious thing to do to memorize the Bible. I see my little boys memorizing verses of the Bible, and it's there's something to that, but it takes a lot of work. And I would say I would say do the work, but think through what you might need to do to help you do that.
Speaker 2:I memorized one time an entire book of the Bible. It was kinda short, and I'll be honest with you. Here's the only reason I memorized it with you. This is gonna get to reading the Bible with others. Here's the only reason I memorized it.
Speaker 2:It's because I was in a group where we said we're gonna do that. So I showed up because I didn't want to not do it if everybody else was. There's something about being in community to spur each other on. Get with a group of friends and say, let's why don't you try to memorize? And don't don't don't get, like, hung up on a whole book, memorize a section, you know.
Speaker 2:Shoot. I mean, I will commend to you, like, Ephesians chapter 3. Go memorize that. I mean, it's amazing. But but do it in groups.
Speaker 2:That's that's that's the structural question is I would do it in groups. Yeah. Remember the thing. Any other questions? I do have one thing I do wanna say.
Speaker 2:I do have one thing I wanna I'll I'll wrap up with a comment, but I'll And I can hang around for a little while if you wanna talk a little bit more. I do wanna say one quick thing. This is not the thing, this is another thing. Joseph and Allison Ray, who who are at Redeemer, they wrote this amazing little booklet, that's just a really practical kind of, framework for a pattern of spiritual disciplines. And they they mentioned something about it recently.
Speaker 2:I think it's incredible. It's $5. It's a PDF. It's just so good. I just want to say that.
Speaker 2:I don't think they're here tonight, but it's awesome. Here's the one thing I want to say and then I'll be done. Jeff, is that okay? Okay. I heard somebody say this one time.
Speaker 2:I think it's a good concluding thought. Spiritual disciplines are about saying no to what you want now, for what you actually want most. You think you want a few minutes on your iPhone. What I'm telling you is you actually want Jesus. Behind every longing in of your heart, there's an object, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
Speaker 2:And spiritual disciplines are somehow about saying, whatever I want now, I'm gonna put aside for what I actually want most. And what I would just tell you as your friend, as your pastor, for those of you from grace, that those who hope on the in the Lord will not be disappointed. K? Can I pray? Be done.
Speaker 2:Lord, would you help us in these things? We wanna know you. And you've promised, Lord, that you will do the work in us that you've started. So help us in these things, we pray. Thank you for this night in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Jeffrey Heine:Join me in thanking Joel Busby. Be Be sure and check out the handouts and the resources that are over here afterwards and, take a chance to meet Joel if you haven't met him before. I do wanna let you all know that on June 5th, we'll be back here for our next talk back with Lindsay Smith. Lindsay is gonna be, teaching on the the topic, the spiritual discipline of spiritual friendship, of being in community, and it's gonna be an awesome time with her. And so hopefully, you can make it out, bring some friends, co workers, neighbors.
Jeffrey Heine:Make a friend between now and then. It'll be fantastic. But we hope to see you then. Thanks