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Thoughts and ideas on education, culture, psychology, social science and more from our academics, students, alumni and wider community to create lasting and evolving change. Podcasts brought to you by UCL Institute of Education (IOE), the world's leading centre for education and social science research, courses and teaching, and a faculty of University College London (UCL).
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You're listening to IOE Insights, the UCL Institute of Education podcast at University College London.
Louise:Hi Tooba and hi everyone. Welcome back to the third episode of our podcast. We meet again after the Eastern holidays and I have to admit that my belly is full of chocolates. But I was mostly drinking chocolate in front of my laptop, studying again and again on my thesis. What about you, Tooba? What were you doing?
Louise:Same
Tooba:Same as you, staying in front of my desktop, trying to make sense of my data. You know how we both have now collected data, now we are in the writing phase, analyzing and trying to write our findings. But I really miss those days when we were in the field and collecting data. And in today's episode, we're going to look back and reflect on our journeys.
Louise:Talking about our data collection, let's start from discussing our data collection methods. So Tooba, what approaches did you use?
Tooba:So my research is qualitative. So the first approach I used was case studies. I'm calling it multiple case studies, not comparative, because I went to collect data from two different field sites. And for particular approaches to data collection methods, I took inspiration from ethnographic methods of data collection, participatory research. I combined them both, so I used a combination of different methods.
Tooba:To begin with, my prominent method was workshops with my main participants, which were school teachers, and interviews. Alongside that, I conducted school visits and ethnographic observation in which I recorded any substantial or insightful detail that I experienced or observed while staying in both of my two field sites. And I also did photo documentation because I went to very interesting places, and I thought the only way I can do justice to do is have the photos, documentation in my findings as well. How about you, Louise?
Louise:Actually, I used a method similar to you. That's funny. That's interesting. I also choose a qualitative approach, and I also use some elements of ethnography. I actually choose to use the focused ethnography approach, which is a short type of ethnography with a short visit in the school, which was easier for me because in London you cannot access the school as much as you want if you're not working inside it.
Louise:So yeah, short visits, but a lot of data collection, lot of recording. And this focused ethnography helped me to find where the news and media literacy was happening inside the school. So I was speaking to a lot of teachers, to a lot of students, and that got me to different classes, different clubs where news and media literacy were happening. Alongside this, I was using a mosaic approach. So mosaic approach is a combination of traditional imparticipatory methods, a bit like you as well.
Louise:I was using observation, so I was able to observe different class, club, taking some notes as well. I did some interview with the teacher, just like you. So all the classes I observed in club, I always interviewed the teacher after that. And I did some parts about your activity with the children. So I did some mind maps, some drawing and one focus group.
Louise:So children were able to draw and speak about the news they consume, reflect on the news they consume, and also about how the school were teaching them about media and news. So a lot of data as well, very rich. Quite interesting. Yeah, actually. Like Hue, that's lot of data and I think it's going to be very time consuming to analyse.
Louise:I'm seeing that you're putting a lot of blue in your journey, what are you doing?
Tooba:Well, today we are talking about our fieldwork, and I think, I thought that maybe I should paint a memory. The only memories I have is the beautiful geographical locations I went to. One of my field sites was filled with mountains, very high peak mountains, so I'm just trying to draw them. What about you?
Louise:That seems wonderful. I want to see a picture of it. Me, I'm just drawing the school, I was doing my research in London. Boring, but
Tooba:no, I have the colors actually. It's orange and pink. Interesting color for schools.
Louise:Yeah, I think this is my memories of the school.
Tooba:Oh, that must be a very good school. Not boring at all. Okay, Louise, so having a thought out plan on paper is one thing, but going to actually implement it and collect data is another thing. How was that experience for you in your fieldwork? Did you face any challenges?
Louise:Yeah, I did. I actually faced a lot of challenges. My first challenge was to actually find a school to do my study in. I visited some school at the beginning to do some initial observations to help me to design my methodology, of course, and also to choose a school that's going to match my criteria because I was looking for a school that has news and media literacy. So I did several initial observations.
Louise:However, some schools didn't match the criteria and some schools ghosted me. So yeah, it was hard to find a school that actually wanted to work with me. I had to use my supervisor contact and network. I saw Covenant Sampling to find a school. And finally, I did.
Louise:I did find a school that had a lot of news and media initiative and that wanted to be part of my PhD research. And I thought that the challenges were gone, but no, more challenges coming. Yeah, it was hard to find time to do the activity and the interview with the teacher and the children because the curriculum is very heavy. They are very busy people. So it's hard to find time to do the interview with the teacher.
Louise:And it was hard to convince children to participate in my activities because some of them were in GCSE, so preparing for exams. So they have no time. And when you say, oh, do you want to do a mind map or drawing? They're like, no, there is no interest for them to do it. So I tried to bribe some of them.
Louise:I bring some donuts it worked some kids came but I had to change my methodology and to adapt it I had to so I was doing mind map and I wanted to do mind map with three different classes but I did with only one and for the other one, I did some drawing it was easier the kids can do it at home so I was not taking their time during their day and the third one was a focus group where I can just speak with the kids so they don't have any work to do it was easier to do this I had to chase the consent form from the kids a lot. They keep forgetting it at home. And I had to do consent form for the kids and for the parents, so double work. I had paper consent form. I changed it to online consent form so it was easier for me to get it back.
Louise:I have to give up some part of my methodology as well. I wanted to do an interview with the teacher. I keep it, but I just did it with the teacher. I observed the class in the club. And I wanted to add the parents, and I gave up on the parents interview because it was hard to convince them to participate.
Louise:It wasn't as useful as I thought for my research as well. And I also wanted to do digital diaries with the kids so they would be able to record the news they consume at home. But none of them wanted to participate because it was too time consuming for them and they were too busy. So I just changed it. Did, during the focus group, they were able to draw the news they consume during the last twenty four hours and then to reflect on it.
Louise:So I had to be very flexible and to change my methodology just to adapt to what were happening in the field, like the reality of the field. It was also a lot of administrative work to organize activity, wait for the email from the teacher, and then there is holidays and sick leave, and yeah, that took me a long time. I stayed a bit less than one year in the school, and yeah, mostly it was waiting for an answer from an email and organizing everything. So yeah, I would say that if are a qualitative researcher, you have to be very, very patient, very resilient, and very flexible about your research and your methodology. What about you, Tooba? Did you face any challenges?
Tooba:Well, I agree with you, and I like how you put it. You have to be very flexible, resilient with your methodology. I mean, for my experience, I have my fair share of challenges also. The first thing was the logistics, to figure out how I'm even going to begin with the data collection, how I'm going to find the sites, the places I want to go, and also, most importantly, the collaborators or the people who are going to help me and play this role of mediator between me and the participants. And I remember at some point, I was talking to more than 10 people and hoping at least one of them said, Yes, we will collaborate with you.
Tooba:It was a very long, and it took me several months just to find two connections that actually worked for both of my case studies. And the next challenge then began of actually arranging enough fiscal resources to actually go there because both of these locations are very remote back in my home country. And I live in a very accessible city. I come from Lahore, which is a big metropolitan city in Pakistan. So from there, going to and reaching to finding how I'm going to even access these locations was the next big challenge.
Tooba:And I remember that for my second field site, which is Chipperson Valley, it's very remote, and it took me three days off road trip to reach there, and my mother wasn't letting me go there at all. And she was saying to me that, No, you just go to your grandma's village and do the research there. And I told her that, you know, unfortunately, the research doesn't work like that. But it was amazing. I met some of the very amazing and hospitable and very warm people in both of these locations who were always happy to help me and host me in their communities and in their places.
Tooba:I think the other challenge that I can remember is very much linked with the methodology and approaches I was using. Perhaps I wasn't aware myself that the approach, though I did conduct a pilot to test my workshop methods and activities, but still it was very westernized, I would say, which I never realized until I was there. And I asked them to let's do a story circle, and everybody just looked at me like, what are you talking about? So that was a moment of realization where I thought, okay, this is, I really need to take a back seat, and flexibility comes up front, and I really need to pay attention to these people that I'm interacting with. So I left my plan, and I asked them what activities do they do which are indigenous and cultural to them.
Tooba:And I embedded those activities in my workshop approach, and that's how I was able to actually achieve my goal. I spent about two to three weeks in each of these locations and made a lot of memories and cried a lot of time when my plans were not working. And it was, my data collection was a six month long journey. I remember when I was coming back from my second field site, I was very happy that I have finally did it. It used to look like a dream, and a lot of people used to say that you're being very ambitious, but I was happy with myself that I actually were able to go and, collect data.
Tooba:So I wish I had more time. If I had more resources, would have been able to actually stay there for a longer time, but I have to make those changes in my plan because I didn't have enough resources to stay there. And, I just want to share this interesting thing. I don't know if it's interesting even, but while I was coming back from my second field site, again, it took me two to three days' road trip to reach back to my home city, and I ended up in a hospital emergency because I got an infection along the way, and I lost my voice. Oh.
Tooba:So my field work journey was amazing in so many ways. It taught me a lot of lessons. And if you ask me, I would still do it all over again.
Louise:That's nice. I would do mine all over again, even if it was less fancy because my school was in London, but
Tooba:I think yours was very fancy Less adventure No, wouldn't say, I would say it's still very adventurous, it's just a different kind of adventure Oh, you phrase it very well
Louise:So Tooba, you say you stay six months in Pakistan Yes Did you miss London? What did you miss about London when we were there?
Tooba:Well, honestly, whenever I am back, it's very hard for me to miss London because I just love being at my home and my mom cooking me the most delicious food every day, which I love the most. I mean, but I did miss London, I think I miss the people. My friends, I miss you a lot. Also, was quite nice for me to have my fieldwork done in my home country, which for the most part, I was traveling and not at home. But at the same time, I think it was very isolating as well, because a lot of time, whenever I was facing any challenge or just wanted to rant or, you know, get my frustration out of my system, talk to a friend, someone who understands research or a PhD journey.
Tooba:I wasn't able to always find someone like that. My father kindly joined me for both of my field sites for the journey and data collection, and I think I made him into a researcher by the end because every time I had something, and mind you, I was in those places where I wouldn't have even electricity, so forget about internet connection or anything. So I would just talk to him, and I remember that when we started, he would just nod, and he was just always listening and being the loving dad that he is. But by the end, he was actually able to give me very good advices. I think he got the gist of it.
Tooba:So I really miss that. I really miss just hanging out with friends here and talking to people here in London. And while I was there, you were collecting your data here in London. Right? And I used to always think, whenever I used to think about you, I I would think, oh, Louise is so lucky.
Tooba:She's doing this in London. That must be very convenient. But now that I hear your experiences, it doesn't sound very convenient to me. You also have a lot of challenges, and I'm very proud of you for overcoming all those. So how was your experience experiencing London, but as a field site?
Louise:Well, thank you, first of all, for the compliment. I mean, it makes me explore some part of London I didn't know because the school was a bit out of London. I mean, not Central London. So I had to take the bus and it was an entire journey. No tubes.
Louise:So yeah, it was a very long journey to go there early in the morning. It was very convenient because at least even if it was one hour away, one hour and a half, it was still London. I could stay home. Like, I mean, you know, the coziness, the comfort of your house, that was really nice. I still had my friend.
Louise:I can still hang out with them. But at the same time, I had the duty of my life because I was still in London. So I was still working. I had still all the activities I'm doing at university and outside of university. So I had to balance my life between the data collection and work and every activity.
Louise:So it was kind of challenges, even if I had my friend by my side. Now you're back in London. Yes. Do you go back to Pakistan sometimes to see your family and to have a fresh heart there?
Tooba:Pakistan is quite far away and the airfares are going higher every month. So it's not very easy to go back home even if I want to go for, per se, Christmas or Easter holiday. I really have to plan it out. But I try to go back at least once a year or once every two years. I always say this is very important as an international student to just go back and have your sense of belonging and home renewed, Because if I don't do that, then it's very hard for me to survive here.
Tooba:So I do go there, but not too often. And how about you, Luis? Do you are you able to go there very often?
Louise:Well, my country is obviously just across the sea. But like this is very pricey to go back home. And also you don't always have the time because going back home is also very tiring. You have the journey and then you have family meetings, party. You don't have any time to rest.
Louise:Sometimes you just want to stay in your apartment in London and rest during the holidays. But I do try to go back in France twice a year, I would say, for Christmas, because Christmas is very important in my country, of course. And for summer as well. I'm going back because I have one month holidays with my part time work and I love going back home because it's mostly about the people I love to see my mom and my dad my little brother and also my childhood friend my godson everybody I miss everybody and I'm very sad about the fact that we are missing a lot of events back home. We are missing birthday, weddings, parties, everything.
Louise:And so that makes me sad. So that's why I'm trying to go back home and try to make the most of it. So it's always very tiring because I'm just trying to see as much people as I can, traveling different cities and places to see my family and friends. But I love to go back for the food as well. I love to go back during Christmas because it's a lot of French food, and I do miss bread and cheese and wine, of course.
Louise:This is very cliche, but I do miss them. But when I'm back in France, I do miss London. I miss my friends who are back in London. I miss all the activities in London. Yeah we cannot be happy can we?
Louise:Never that's the thing because now as international students you have two house yeah that's true London and your childhood country as well Tooba so before we finish our episode let's introduce to everybody our drawing. So I can see on your drawing, is some mountain, there is a river, there's also some sand.
Tooba:Yeah, you got it right. I was worried that maybe I'm not drawing it right. Today we were just talking about our data collection experience, I was trying to look back at all of my memories, and actually there, all I can think about is mountains, because one of the research sites, which is Chipursan Valley, is in Himalayan Mountains, so there were a lot of mountains there, which I saw and I lived there. So also, everything on this paper is very intentional. You see a river in the middle.
Tooba:So I like to see my fieldwork research journey as along with the Indus River, which flows from the mountain towards the southern side of the country, which is the more desert side. Chipursa Valley was the mountains from where this river starts, along the way it goes, to different parts of the world towards the southern side, which is the second field site for my research, Rajanpur. And it is a mix of both agriculture and barren land, but because of climate change, it's becoming more barren. So this is my visual representation of both of my field sites and the memories I contain. What about you?
Tooba:I see very cute colors on your paper.
Louise:Well, first of all, I have to say that your drawing is very, a lot of meanings, lot of concepts that I love it. Mine is more down to earth and minimalistic. Yes. So I just draw a school because I did my research inside the school and you can see as well I did the school arrangement, so with some student table, the teacher desk and some books, some chair for everyone. I draw a sun and some green because I did part of my research collection, my data collection during spring and summer term, which was very nice in London.
Louise:And I drew a tiny red bus because we are in London. So I used to go to this school with the famous London
Tooba:I really like the tiny red bus. Like it's such a good reference to London.
Louise:Yeah, we don't know if it looked like a bus or a ladybug. Maybe it's a ladybug, maybe it's a bus, we don't know.
Tooba:That's why it looks cute.
Louise:Yeah, that's true. So we spoke a lot about our data collection journey today. On the next episode, we're going to focus more on how we balance our personal life with the research life as well. So our identity, the research, as well as part time work, conference, side projects, everything that we are doing as an international student. So stay tuned.
Louise:If you have enjoyed this podcast, search IOE Insights on your preferred podcast platform to listen to more episodes from the IOE.
Tooba:And a quick favor before you go, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, we would really appreciate it if you could give the IOE Insights podcast a rating.
Louise:Five stars will, of course, be nice if you have been loving what you are hearing. That will help reach more people who are interested in knowing what we are all about.
Male voiceover voice:Thanks for listening. Search IOE Insights for more podcasts from the IOE.