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Join old friends and acclaimed artists, John Butler and Dingo Spender, for an intimate conversation delving into the creative process and narrative behind John's captivating new musical venture, 'Running River.' Settle in as they share anecdotes, inspirations, and the transformative journey that led to this ambient masterpiece. From the inception of melodies to the ethereal landscapes evoked through sound, explore the depths of artistic collaboration and musical exploration. Whether you're a long-time fan or a newcomer to Johns's work, this episode offers a rare glimpse into the heart and soul of his journey through new sonic territories.
Speaker 1: Hello, dear friends, this is John Butler
Speaker 1: and you're about to listen to a podcast
Speaker 1: called Running the River.
Speaker 1: This is a new podcast that I have put
Speaker 1: together with my dear friend Dingo Spender.
Speaker 1: He, you may recall, helped me with the last
Speaker 1: podcast I made for my album Home.
Speaker 1: Here again we deconstruct and get under the
Speaker 1: skin and get our hands dirty in the
Speaker 1: substrate soil of what I was envisioning
Speaker 1: for this latest ambient album.
Speaker 1: This is an album I made for wellness
Speaker 1: practitioners and practicers alike to
Speaker 1: defrag and decompress in this very busy,
Speaker 1: fast and quick world, and we hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: as we take you up down and across the river.
Speaker 1: This is Running the River.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I would love please tell us about
Speaker 2: the chronology, like what, what got you
Speaker 2: here?
Speaker 2: What led to this?
Speaker 2: What led us?
Speaker 1: here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where do I start?
Speaker 1: Where do I start?
Speaker 1: Because it's all kind of it's all some kind
Speaker 1: of venn diagram that's all over lane and
Speaker 1: intersectional.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, having the idea for a long time,
Speaker 1: you know, sitting out there on the back
Speaker 1: burner at some point, I'll do it, I'll get
Speaker 1: around to it one day.
Speaker 1: I will, I would, I should, I could, and you
Speaker 1: know, got back four or five years.
Speaker 1: It was interesting, it was the beginning of
Speaker 1: an interesting time.
Speaker 1: Basically, I've been with some band members
Speaker 1: over 11 years, 12 years, more than I've
Speaker 1: ever been with any other band member Byron
Speaker 1: Luters, fantastic bassist, great individual,
Speaker 1: and Grant Goffey and drums.
Speaker 1: Then I added a couple of new players for
Speaker 1: home as well, and that went well.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, after 10 or 14 years
Speaker 1: in a row, people want to do other things.
Speaker 1: They have lives and they have their own
Speaker 1: journey and their own path and life leads
Speaker 1: them in different directions and getting to
Speaker 1: those points and including myself, you know,
Speaker 1: and sometimes get into those points are not
Speaker 1: always a straight line hmm, and they're not
Speaker 1: always clean either.
Speaker 1: And it's simple and for me, I have a
Speaker 1: propensity to over complicate in my mind
Speaker 1: and also situations and read and put
Speaker 1: narratives over the top of things and see
Speaker 1: the whole world.
Speaker 1: That way I'm sure, I'm, not the only one.
Speaker 1: So, you know, without going into any of the
Speaker 1: details, because I think all participants
Speaker 1: and all players are all fantastic people,
Speaker 1: including myself, and we all do our best
Speaker 1: and did our best, and we all also added our
Speaker 1: ingredients to the mojo and the gumbo that
Speaker 1: that, uh, turned into.
Speaker 1: You know, those last months of the last
Speaker 1: incarnation of the trio, um, and I found
Speaker 1: that difficult, like I always do.
Speaker 1: I find those things kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: testing, traumatic, challenging.
Speaker 1: I, you know they stay with me a long time
Speaker 1: if you ask my partners, like it's, it's,
Speaker 1: it's a thing, and um, I put together
Speaker 1: another band in record time to finish my
Speaker 1: European and American commitments that I
Speaker 1: did want to finish with, like, some great
Speaker 1: players like Alana Stone on keys and vocals,
Speaker 1: oj Newcomb on keys and vocals, oj newcom on
Speaker 1: bass and keys, terry pie richmond on drums.
Speaker 1: I put this band together in two weeks and
Speaker 1: by the end of two months we were headlining
Speaker 1: red rocks again for the fifth time and you
Speaker 1: know it was like whoa, it was a lot that
Speaker 1: happened there and like afterwards I was
Speaker 1: just like, and after this, I'm gonna stop
Speaker 1: not make any commitments to any new members,
Speaker 1: new bands, I'm going to go solo for a few
Speaker 1: years and just whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1: Relationships seemed complex, difficult,
Speaker 1: scary.
Speaker 1: I was a bit tapped out.
Speaker 1: Being a band leader, an employer, a mate
Speaker 1: living on a submarine, been touring for 25
Speaker 1: years, I was dealing with anxiety
Speaker 1: throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 1: That would come and go pretty intensely and
Speaker 1: I was just a bit cooked.
Speaker 1: I was just cooked and so I said yes, I will
Speaker 1: go off the road and at the in around you
Speaker 1: know, the last few albums I've been working
Speaker 1: with garage band and trying to teach myself
Speaker 1: as an engineer, really gently.
Speaker 1: And then I was like I'm going to get logic.
Speaker 1: So I got logic and I was like, well, the
Speaker 1: first thing I should do is make this
Speaker 1: ambient album.
Speaker 1: It's really simple, you know, just like
Speaker 1: simple stuff, don't try really heavy.
Speaker 1: So I started making stuff and it was cool
Speaker 1: and exciting and I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: sick, and how about I just put a little
Speaker 1: beat to that little guitar beat to that?
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's cool, like why
Speaker 1: don't I just back that little guitar beat
Speaker 1: up with a little midi kick?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, why don't you just put a
Speaker 1: little synthesizer?
Speaker 1: You know, you know, long story short, you
Speaker 1: know, all of a sudden, I was in another
Speaker 1: studio that I'd built in our spare place on
Speaker 1: the land.
Speaker 1: It's like a little small upward studio
Speaker 1: space.
Speaker 1: That was already there and I was in
Speaker 1: full-fledged I'm making an album by myself,
Speaker 1: full production.
Speaker 1: Don't know what the fuck I'm doing Having a
Speaker 1: ball sitting up to four o'clock every
Speaker 1: morning making stuff and excited by the
Speaker 1: process Tracks everywhere, not knowing how
Speaker 1: to crossfade.
Speaker 1: Four o'clock every morning making stuff and
Speaker 1: excited by the process tracks everywhere,
Speaker 1: not knowing how to crossfade, just like
Speaker 1: just going for it and having fun and trying
Speaker 1: to, like you know, achieve some kevin
Speaker 1: parker thing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'll make it out by myself,
Speaker 1: why not?
Speaker 1: Never, never, never engineered.
Speaker 1: Don't know really what the hell I'm doing.
Speaker 1: Crossfading is something and you know, um,
Speaker 1: why not?
Speaker 1: I've only worked with, you know,
Speaker 1: professional engineers have dedicated their
Speaker 1: life to the craft of engineering, my whole
Speaker 1: career.
Speaker 1: Why can't I do that?
Speaker 1: And um, you know, um, met myself in it,
Speaker 1: yeah, and but in amongst that, uh, my
Speaker 1: partner's father and my father had both
Speaker 1: been dealing with long-term chronic illness
Speaker 1: that had come to a head and just shortly
Speaker 1: before I got logic and started doing that,
Speaker 1: you know, and something else, kind of
Speaker 1: majorly pivotal and massive precedent in
Speaker 1: our lives is COVID dropped.
Speaker 1: So COVID dropped, I'm at home, we're all at
Speaker 1: home, we're all not working and you know
Speaker 1: I'm recording a bit at home.
Speaker 1: I'll make this ambient album.
Speaker 1: And our dads fall very ill, like a long
Speaker 1: time coming and now we're doing palliative
Speaker 1: care In a short time, within a week, dan
Speaker 1: was gone in lockdown Victoria in the family
Speaker 1: home with all of her five siblings and was
Speaker 1: all oh, not five siblings, sorry, all of
Speaker 1: her four siblings and literally they'd gone
Speaker 1: back to the family unit looking after the
Speaker 1: patriarch of the family.
Speaker 1: One week later, my dad is finally told by a
Speaker 1: nurse you have to have care now and my dad
Speaker 1: had been kind of couch surfing and, like
Speaker 1: they call it, like furniture surfing where
Speaker 1: you can't walk properly and you're walking
Speaker 1: to the next object to lean yourself on.
Speaker 1: And I'd been saying, dad, I think it's time
Speaker 1: to come home.
Speaker 1: Let me look after you get some care.
Speaker 1: And he finally succumbed to that.
Speaker 1: And so in amongst that Dan's gone now in
Speaker 1: lockdown in a pretty intensive situation
Speaker 1: doing palliative care at home, and within a
Speaker 1: week of that I've emptied our whole room.
Speaker 1: I've put it wherever it would fit somewhere
Speaker 1: else.
Speaker 1: I emptied my whole dad's living room into a
Speaker 1: trailer and took it three hours down south
Speaker 1: to Margaret River wherever it would fit
Speaker 1: somewhere else.
Speaker 1: I emptied my whole dad's living room into a
Speaker 1: trailer and took it three hours down south
Speaker 1: to Margaret River and made his living room
Speaker 1: into my bedroom and then gave him care for
Speaker 1: the next month before he passed away.
Speaker 1: Danielle and my father, danielle's dad,
Speaker 1: nicholas, and my father passed within 40
Speaker 1: hours of each other, wild, both in lockdown.
Speaker 1: So that happened and then they passed.
Speaker 1: You know and you know the strain of that,
Speaker 1: the surrealness of that raising two teenage
Speaker 1: kids, 23 years of marriage and being on the
Speaker 1: road Band, kind of breaking up in a way
Speaker 1: that was very confusing and complex.
Speaker 1: You know and you know I'm kind of
Speaker 1: post-funeral.
Speaker 1: We're all a little bit shell-shocked and
Speaker 1: I'm sitting with this music trying to make
Speaker 1: it and it's getting more and more complex
Speaker 1: and the computer's struggling more to
Speaker 1: actually even do the right thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know where sounds are coming from
Speaker 1: anymore and I am just starting to swim in
Speaker 1: my attention deficit and whatever trauma or
Speaker 1: PTSD that lurks around and the anxiety were
Speaker 1: just starting to ping and I couldn't see
Speaker 1: the forest, the trees, and through that
Speaker 1: kind of year and a half, two year I was
Speaker 1: kind of um, oh well, I was very soberly
Speaker 1: humbled and um and kind of brought back to
Speaker 1: fair basics and um, and kind of like not
Speaker 1: knowing if I had it in me anymore to do
Speaker 1: what I do, to do what I wanted to do, even
Speaker 1: though the songs were still coming, even
Speaker 1: though they're like, hey, john, we're here,
Speaker 1: can you bring us to life so people can hear
Speaker 1: them, kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I talked to the songs, yeah, but I was like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not thinking about like I
Speaker 1: got these songs, like they're not solo
Speaker 1: songs, it's like they're band songs, I hear
Speaker 1: them, not solo songs, it's like they're
Speaker 1: band songs, I hear them, I hear how they
Speaker 1: want to be and I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've been so stripped bare, cleaned off,
Speaker 1: lost confidence.
Speaker 1: I've been really humbled by all of it.
Speaker 1: You know, like 20 years of interesting and
Speaker 1: amazing and not amazing behavior in a
Speaker 1: marriage raising two amazing kids, going
Speaker 1: through big times in life, two fathers
Speaker 1: dying at the same time, adrenal fatigue,
Speaker 1: but all that kind of stuff just and then
Speaker 1: just like feeling lost in.
Speaker 1: The only thing that I thought.
Speaker 1: I kind of like that was giving me some kind
Speaker 1: of you know solace.
Speaker 1: I was just like okay, I don't know if I got
Speaker 1: what it takes to do much of it, of any of
Speaker 1: it, you know, solace.
Speaker 1: I was just like, okay, I don't, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I got what it takes to do much of
Speaker 1: it, of any of it, you know.
Speaker 1: And that was extremely humbling in a real
Speaker 1: like zeroing off calibration.
Speaker 1: That, of course, was necessary, but I was
Speaker 1: like how could I possibly ever lead a band
Speaker 1: again, how could I?
Speaker 1: Do I even have it anymore?
Speaker 1: I'm not as naive and cocksure and abrupt
Speaker 1: and kind of insensitive as I used to be.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not insensitive, I'm highly
Speaker 1: sensitive in the sense that you need a
Speaker 1: certain kind of naivety.
Speaker 1: The more you know about human relations,
Speaker 1: the more nuanced you have to get.
Speaker 1: And I didn't think I had the skills to deal
Speaker 1: with the complexity with how sensitive I'm
Speaker 1: and how many stations seem to be on and
Speaker 1: blaring at once with my attention span.
Speaker 1: So I was like, how could I get, possibly
Speaker 1: get back?
Speaker 1: And I said, well, let's just work backwards
Speaker 1: a little bit, because these songs are not
Speaker 1: leaving you.
Speaker 1: Let's work backwards.
Speaker 1: How simply can we make the path back?
Speaker 1: yeah and the whole idea of smart.
Speaker 1: You know that smart acronym of you know I
Speaker 1: don't know what it's like set a goal,
Speaker 1: measurable, achievable rt.
Speaker 1: I don't know where they are.
Speaker 1: It was like what's the simplest thing I can
Speaker 1: do?
Speaker 1: I'm not listening to the things I've been
Speaker 1: working on for last two years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't listen to it.
Speaker 1: It's making me anxious, fucking whoa.
Speaker 1: Um, I'll start with the ambient album.
Speaker 1: Beautiful, I can maybe just do that.
Speaker 1: And then I was like in amongst that.
Speaker 1: Now we're post covid and all that.
Speaker 1: I'd worked with james ireland uh, for just
Speaker 1: two days.
Speaker 1: It was like a meeting just to see if we
Speaker 1: might do something together.
Speaker 1: Uh, for songs and, um, it was a really easy
Speaker 1: of days not being on the tools and being
Speaker 1: just on the instruments.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's right, engineers
Speaker 1: are sick and he was also a producer.
Speaker 1: And so I was like in amongst this gumbo of
Speaker 1: thought, something started to crystallize
Speaker 1: and it was like, okay, there's this band
Speaker 1: that I want to have one day.
Speaker 1: I'm compelled to have it.
Speaker 1: I want to have it, I need to have it, but I
Speaker 1: can't go there now.
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning.
Speaker 1: Make this ambient.
Speaker 1: You need to heal.
Speaker 1: You actually need to heal.
Speaker 1: You're fucking fried, bro.
Speaker 1: Now's the time to make this music, not for
Speaker 1: necessarily I mean, yes, of course to share
Speaker 1: but first for yourself, as a tool of coming
Speaker 1: back to how simple the process can be of
Speaker 1: recording, how simple music can be without
Speaker 1: all the complexities and overlays.
Speaker 1: And once that happened, the next thing
Speaker 1: happened is well, I want to make this
Speaker 1: instrumental album.
Speaker 1: The instrumental album is something that's
Speaker 1: very much connected to the intros of the
Speaker 1: songs and to some of the journeys of the
Speaker 1: music of the trio.
Speaker 1: And I was like so it was like Heal Begin
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 1: First album was an instrumental album that
Speaker 1: I used to play on the street.
Speaker 1: I was like Heal, begin Again, yeah, start
Speaker 1: again.
Speaker 1: So instrumental album.
Speaker 1: Then I'll do this solo kind of guitar beat
Speaker 1: album that I wanted to do, and then I'll be
Speaker 1: through all that, slowly, baby steps, I'll
Speaker 1: be able to have a band again and what I saw
Speaker 1: was four seasons and the way my mind works.
Speaker 1: It needs story and narrative.
Speaker 1: You can tell me, dada, until the cows come
Speaker 1: home and I'll be like, yeah, I understand
Speaker 1: you and I, yes, I understand that.
Speaker 1: But to feel something, to really integrate
Speaker 1: it as a concept and an idea and I need it
Speaker 1: has to be conceptual.
Speaker 1: I have to have a story.
Speaker 1: You want to teach me something about math
Speaker 1: or anything, or scales?
Speaker 1: Give me a story, give me a shape, give me a
Speaker 1: color, give me a feeling, give me a story,
Speaker 1: give me a history and I'll build something
Speaker 1: around it.
Speaker 1: That's what I need.
Speaker 1: That's how my version of ADHD works and
Speaker 1: that's how I.
Speaker 1: And the minute I had those four seasons, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, clear.
Speaker 1: And I also had this moment of clarity.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I had a good amount of
Speaker 1: serotonin or dopamine in my body at the
Speaker 1: time.
Speaker 1: Having worked with James, I was like I'm
Speaker 1: going to call two people right now and see
Speaker 1: if they're free to do the ambient album and
Speaker 1: the instrumental album.
Speaker 1: And on the same day, in the same hour, I
Speaker 1: texted Dave Mann, a fantastic musician,
Speaker 1: engineer, producer, songwriter, performer,
Speaker 1: who lives in Market River.
Speaker 1: He's like anybody who knows Dave Mann knows
Speaker 1: he's actually the man.
Speaker 1: He can literally do anything.
Speaker 2: He is the renaissance man.
Speaker 1: And he does it well and he's a humble
Speaker 1: gentleman.
Speaker 2: Forging steel tools.
Speaker 1: Making house trucks.
Speaker 2: Making.
Speaker 1: Sailing across, sailing, yeah, just you
Speaker 1: name it.
Speaker 1: Playing guitar like a.
Speaker 2: Singing like a Singing writing songs,
Speaker 2: engineering albums, Raising kids Just the
Speaker 2: whole lot.
Speaker 2: He's just the full package.
Speaker 1: He's just like stop it okay.
Speaker 2: I know Chill.
Speaker 1: Really like-.
Speaker 2: And he's a mountain of a man.
Speaker 2: He's six foot five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean it's surprising anybody likes him.
Speaker 2: Dave, if you're listening to this, just
Speaker 2: ignore that bit.
Speaker 2: If you're listening to this, just ignore
Speaker 2: that bit.
Speaker 1: So I sent him a thing going I'm free on
Speaker 1: these dates.
Speaker 1: I just had that clarity.
Speaker 1: You know that you have those clarity
Speaker 1: Especially for me.
Speaker 1: It's like I get these moments of clarity.
Speaker 1: I can see the whole matrix for a second.
Speaker 1: It's opened up and I'm like I'm going to
Speaker 1: pounce.
Speaker 1: And it opened up my diary.
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm free on these dates, I'm just
Speaker 1: going to try them.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to call somebody else, called
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, katie Tunstall,
Speaker 1: who's a fantastic musician, engineer,
Speaker 1: songwriter, just badass woman, boss woman,
Speaker 1: and I knew I had this gig in Miami on
Speaker 1: Michael Frenti's Soul Shine Cruise solo and
Speaker 1: I was like I could maybe go to New Mexico
Speaker 1: where she lives and record this thing.
Speaker 1: So I said to them both at the same time you
Speaker 1: guys free, are you guys free?
Speaker 1: And they both wrote me back within an hour,
Speaker 1: going yeah and I was like okay, it's on,
Speaker 1: and you know that's kind of asking you,
Speaker 1: that was, that was the, that was the
Speaker 1: journey to get to that moment I had to go
Speaker 1: through so much breakdown and and literally
Speaker 1: you know, and and literally be 20 songs
Speaker 1: deep into multi, multi-tracked songs and
Speaker 1: walk away from it all, yeah and and then go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I need to actually work with
Speaker 1: somebody else yeah yeah, damn it.
Speaker 1: Oh, I really wanted to do the kevin parker
Speaker 1: thing because I just wanted to stay the
Speaker 1: fuck away from people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were just too hard like complex,
Speaker 1: and I knew I was as well.
Speaker 1: It was this and it's like no, no, now we're
Speaker 1: starting to heal.
Speaker 2: Work with people, yeah, work with safe,
Speaker 2: kind, powerful, humble badasses and and and
Speaker 2: dave man was yeah first port of call can I
Speaker 2: just say as well, you at some point in this
Speaker 2: 20 track huge um, I actually came in for a
Speaker 2: couple of, was it maybe two days three?
Speaker 1: days, yeah, you did.
Speaker 2: We did some stuff in the world.
Speaker 2: You were like, you were like the, the
Speaker 2: wrestler on the ropes going reaching out to
Speaker 2: tag someone into the into the ring, you
Speaker 2: know, and I was just like on the side going
Speaker 2: come, man, just tag me and tag me.
Speaker 2: So I flew over, yeah, yeah and um.
Speaker 2: You know, from my perspective, like the
Speaker 2: work you've done there, like it's epic,
Speaker 2: it's big, it's huge and I can't wait till
Speaker 2: we get there to this cycle.
Speaker 2: This season has passed beautiful journey of
Speaker 2: like rebuilding yourself.
Speaker 2: To get to that level of complexity is is
Speaker 2: absolutely understandable because then you
Speaker 2: can serve it without it feeling like it's a
Speaker 2: burden to you.
Speaker 2: It's just a.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have the tools to deliver it
Speaker 1: to and to do it the service that you know
Speaker 1: yeah, the things that need to be
Speaker 1: prioritized first and I was jumping the gun,
Speaker 1: yeah I was jumping the gun and the music
Speaker 1: was like okay, it's big music you can, but
Speaker 1: let's see how you go yeah and it's like the
Speaker 1: music always knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just like, yeah, you have a
Speaker 1: shot.
Speaker 1: And I learned amazing things along the way
Speaker 1: and I think, failure is an amazing, amazing
Speaker 1: gift and tool and to meet yourself and also,
Speaker 1: you know, I like to think I'm pretty
Speaker 1: empathetic and like pretty, you know,
Speaker 1: self-conscious and aware, but it all it did
Speaker 1: definitely gave me, you know, just even
Speaker 1: another level, um, on just the appreciation
Speaker 1: of the skill of engineers.
Speaker 1: You know, um, you know and I knew that, but
Speaker 1: once again I got to feel that yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a very different lesson.
Speaker 2: Feel it in to really feel it.
Speaker 2: It's a different lesson, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah and just going okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some things I'm better at and
Speaker 1: some things I'm not good at.
Speaker 1: And now we're talking about energy.
Speaker 1: Where am I going to be the most efficient?
Speaker 1: Where am I going to be the most potent?
Speaker 1: Yes, learn that thing, but is it?
Speaker 2: it's not gonna best serve you for now.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's maybe that self-produced,
Speaker 1: self-recorded things down the track.
Speaker 1: This is a journey and you're still reeling,
Speaker 1: bro.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're still like trying to work out
Speaker 1: real simple, primordial shit, yeah.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, go back yeah you know, go back to,
Speaker 1: to the drawing board of your life
Speaker 1: schematics, yeah, and it's a circle, coming
Speaker 1: all the way around with a whole new
Speaker 1: understanding.
Speaker 2: It's not like you're starting from scratch.
Speaker 2: You're coming, but it's like the context is
Speaker 2: that you are.
Speaker 2: It's a renewal, you know, like the
Speaker 2: beginning is the end.
Speaker 2: The end is the beginning.
Speaker 2: It's that beautiful circle coming around,
Speaker 2: but this time you've got all this new
Speaker 2: understanding, this new capacity to begin
Speaker 2: again and be humble again yeah, and that'd
Speaker 2: be a lot of death.
Speaker 2: I think that'd be a lot of death, the death
Speaker 2: of a band?
Speaker 1: uh, death of confidence?
Speaker 1: Death of family members?
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh.
Speaker 1: Death of art recordings?
Speaker 1: Uh, a death within the marriage, I think,
Speaker 1: even, to be honest to say, a death of old
Speaker 1: ways in order to forge new ways.
Speaker 1: It was a real this, whatever you wanna call
Speaker 1: it, lifetime, the universe, it was like it
Speaker 1: was kind of nudging me in the directions.
Speaker 1: And then and I am a, at times, obstinate,
Speaker 1: stubborn and like stupidly, not
Speaker 1: stupendously, but stupidly loyal to an idea,
Speaker 1: a cause, to people, to myself, to a concept,
Speaker 1: and I just stuck with something that I knew
Speaker 1: had to change and that was wanting to
Speaker 1: change, and all the different organelles of
Speaker 1: it was wanting to change, not just me and
Speaker 1: finally it just said poop and just kind of
Speaker 1: pushed me out of the nest and yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: rough landing and you know, I just want to
Speaker 1: also, just, you know, give it that sense of
Speaker 1: like, the experience you've just explained
Speaker 1: and like what you've been through is such,
Speaker 1: a um, a broader experience for so many
Speaker 1: people about the kind of the gift of what
Speaker 1: covid kind of gave us.
Speaker 2: As well as it was, it was a death for so
Speaker 2: many people of old ways and having to deal
Speaker 2: with our own shadows and take
Speaker 2: responsibility for stuff, and we all did it
Speaker 2: in different ways.
Speaker 2: You know, um, people changed jobs, people
Speaker 2: left partners, people moved houses, people,
Speaker 2: you know it.
Speaker 2: Just it forced us to deal with our shit and,
Speaker 2: in your case, like it's you you, as as any
Speaker 2: true artist does, you you turn to your art
Speaker 2: as as the place to, to synthesize all that
Speaker 2: you were working through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly and to discern and almost
Speaker 1: decode it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's great unveiling.
Speaker 1: That's what I called covid yeah it was just
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff we knew was behind
Speaker 1: the curtain yeah, and something just was
Speaker 1: like yo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's gonna happen with this shit?
Speaker 1: yeah, yeah, and it all came out it wasn't
Speaker 1: just covid at blm, you know, just like yeah
Speaker 1: the facts just everything just was came to
Speaker 1: the fore and rested with social media and I
Speaker 1: think, all in all, there was a great
Speaker 1: unveiling that happened.
Speaker 1: I can't speak for everybody else, but what
Speaker 1: I noticed and I do have my own take on
Speaker 1: pattern recognition is that it seemed to
Speaker 1: happen for a lot of other people and it
Speaker 1: definitely happened for myself.
Speaker 1: It was a great unveiling, a great zeroing
Speaker 1: off, a calibration, whether we all liked it
Speaker 1: or not, or whether I liked it or not, and
Speaker 1: that set the bed for it to begin the
Speaker 1: process in the hard times.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for my people, all my family.
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the world.