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*Winner - Best Tech Podcast - 2025 Quill Podcast Awards*
British Columbia is experiencing an unprecedented housing crisis. While addressing various aspects of the housing supply chain is essential, no single approach can fully solve the challenges we face in scaling housing production. So, what's the blueprint for growth?
In November 2023, DIGITAL — Canada's Global Innovation Cluster for digital technologies — launched its Housing Growth Innovation Program with support from the Province of British Columbia through the Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs. The program brings together collaborative teams of industry leaders to accelerate technology-driven approaches that are driving real, tangible growth for British Columbia's housing production sector.
Amy Vilis, Director of Housing Growth Innovation at DIGITAL, chats with innovators doing groundbreaking work within DIGITAL's Housing Growth Innovation Program to develop and implement technology-based solutions within British Columbia's housing sector across the full scale of end-to-end production. These conversations showcase how ideas are making it into the real world where they can become comprehensive, viable and, best of all, achievable solutions to accelerate housing production for British Columbians.
Amy Villis (00:01.504)
Innovation in housing isn't just about the system and that technology. It's also about the people. The future of construction depends on a workforce that can adapt, learn, and lead through change. Welcome to Blueprint for Growth Innovation and Housing. I'm your host, Amy Villas, Director of Housing Growth Innovation at Digital, Canada's global innovation cluster for digital technologies.
In this episode, we'll explore how digital tools and new training modules are reshaping the way we build, manage and regulate housing in Canada.
Clip
The baby boomers have retired. We have not yet replaced them. As we look towards very ambitious, how we structure, we don't have the people. And the challenge with construction is that construction is so urgent and imminent. They're always just trying to survive. If you just leave it to the end, you're not going to be.
Amy Villis
John Reed, co-founder of Faber Technologies, shares how micro-credentials, gig platforms, and accessible tech are helping tradespeople upskill, move between projects, and find better opportunities in real time. Ellen Helozin, director of strategic alliances at Trax, brings the regulatory perspective, showing how AI-driven tools and standardized systems can help speed up permitting and give officials the skills and confidence to make faster, smarter decisions.
Amy Villis (01:23.65)
Because meaningful change in housing doesn't happen without people. When industry and government work together to invest in skills, technology and digital systems, we all start to build a workforce ready for what's next. To understand how the next generation of tradespeople are being recruited and upskilled, it helps to look at platforms driving change from the ground up. John Reed, co-founder of Faber Technologies, is at the forefront of that shift, connecting construction companies with workers across North America.
Since launching in 2018, Vapor has helped match over 40,000 construction gigs and built a network of more than 100,000 workers, all with the focus of tackling the trade and labor shortage shaping the industry today. Given our current climate and housing needs, know, the urgent need right now, workforce upskilling, understanding what needs to bring folks to a more modern method of construction. How are you working on this?
What do you see just as initial observations?
John Reid
Yeah, great question, Amy. You know, I think really in my opinion, what's kind of having an issue in the construction industry isn't a lack of actually labour. I think we use the word labour shortage kind of a little bit too broadly. I think, like you mentioned, is our biggest issue right now is productivity and obviously workers learning new skills. You know, the construction industry, I think, hasn't really changed on how people gain skills and learn things for a really long time. And so.
You know, I think that we need to bring more training and more training programs into the construction sector. And I think that's kind of where we pull that in. You know, we're a platform where construction workers can connect with gigs from all facets of the construction industry, whether it's generalized construction, whether it's landscaping, whether it's concrete work, et cetera. And these workers are actually able to learn micro tasks on the job site. And they kind of create a profile and this profile carries with them across Canada.
John Reid (03:17.014)
and they can work in all these different facets of jobs. instead of looking at it of like, hey, I'm in a course or I'm in a four-year apprentice, we actually give workers the ability to access a different range of jobs and be able to kind of learn a bunch of different multifaceted skills and then potentially kind of move into one vertical, whether it's, know, carpentry work, landscaping or concrete.
Amy Villis
And how is that done? it through like a short cycle targeted training on boots on the ground? How are you doing that and how do they know which path to take?
John Reid
Yeah, I think that's a really good question. know, Faber, we have a mobile platform where construction workers basically can sign up. They can put in all their skills. They can put in the jobs that they're looking for. They can put in any certifications that they want. And, you know, construction companies, like I mentioned, of all facets, whether it's subcontractors or general contractors, can post short or long term gigs on our platform.
And these workers basically get a bird's eye view into the actual construction world, opposed to traditionally how it's done, whether it's through a job fair or it's through connecting with companies on a job board, they can actually see what they're actually getting into. And then as these workers work for these companies, whether like I mentioned, it's a sub trader, a general contractor, they can then kind of facilitate that one-on-one interaction with that customer or that construction company and go into landscaping because they love landscaping because they've worked five landscaping jobs and four plumbing jobs and they hate plumbing but they love landscaping because it's really hard when you're young and you're looking to get into a trade and be like, yeah, I want to become a plumber and you're in year one and then you realize, I don't want to be a plumber. I want to be an electrician, right? So this kind of gives you that flexibility and be able to go like one foot in one foot out with all these facets of trades.
Amy Villis (05:08.438)
So if I'm hearing you correctly, if I was to go on your site, sign up, get a working gig, and then it could be in different areas, and then I'm able to explore and get myself sort of skilled in different areas. And so the micro-credential part of this, like how is that working on your site as far as noting that I have done those activities or I have accomplished any skill?
John Reid
Yeah, it's been like a big thesis for us when we started is being able to take someone that has zero skills on a construction site and actually be able to upskill them and turn them into a carpenter or turn them into a landscaper. we've seen, think, over 21,000 skill tags logged since we featured that tool in 2021. So we are seeing it actually in the real world happening and we are tracking all of those things. So we have been able to take people from a general labor background that's, interested in learning carpentry and actually be able to skill them up based on the fact that we've been able to have all these micro skill tags, whether it's, you know, someone who's starting off just sweeping, but now we know they're a really good sweeper, turning them all the way into a framer, turning them into a finishing carpenter and a concrete carpenter. And the nice thing about these micro skill tags is, you know, they can choose to pick up more jobs based on those skill tags. So when a construction company comes to us, they'll click off all the skill tags that they need for that construction gig.
And our algorithm will actually match those workers that have those micro skill tags to those jobs. So we know you're really good at framing because you've been endorsed for 10 framing micro credentials, right? And that in turn is gonna incentivize that construction worker be like, yeah, you're really good at framing. That's probably the path that you should take or hey, you're really good at hanging doors and doing cabinets. You should go into mill worker finishing carpentry, right? And I think there just really isn't that like kind of cycle and that feedback loop and our platform is able to do that, which has been great.
Amy Villis (07:07.51)
So as far as shortages are concerned, so I know we're talking about either labor shortages or training shortages and productivity challenges. And I don't want to argue with all the experts out there talking about retirement rates and that we just don't have enough people, whether it's enough people or not the right skills. So kind of touched on that already a bit, but where do you see skill sets needing to sit nowadays? I'm a larger developer construction company and I have a swath of maybe 500 employees. How would you say the best way to kind of monitor and see if I'm using the people in the right spaces and what kind of skills I need to provide them to make them ready for the type of construction we see coming with modern methods?
John Reid
Yeah, definitely a lot to unpack there. think one of the kind of interesting, we'll answer the question in a couple of different parts is, you know, take the technology sector 15 years ago, right? Where software engineers were in super high demand. We didn't have enough people that were software engineers. We needed to train them really quickly, right? There was this huge boom happening, right? In the software industry. You look at all the micro boot camps that popped up across Canada and the U.S. where, you know, people could learn how to code and...
three months, opposed to going and getting a computer science degree from one of the universities. I think we definitely need more of that. I think that these companies need to develop programs internally or externally with third parties to be able to obviously upskill the workers that they have and the workers that they need to attract, right?
you know, in the modern technology world, if you know, a software engineer needs to learn something, they can either go online and they can learn that themselves. They can do a bootcamp, right? Or they can go the traditional model. And I think the construction industry kind of needs that micro, cause of bootcamp model in order to obviously skill people up. Cause like you mentioned, I understand everyone talks about the retirement problem, but you know, I think access to content and access to training. If I wanted to be a carpenter,
John Reid (09:13.478)
and I didn't want to go to trade school, either I need to get a job in carpentry and hope someone trains me, but like you can't go on to a platform or there aren't many third party boot camps like the technology sector, I think has done a really good job. And so that's kind of how I would tackle that approach.
Yeah, and the argument there, one would say, like, how do you, you know, use digital technologies to lean into a non-traditional way of schooling? So, you know, work that we're doing together around developing another arm of your platform in order to meet some of those engagements through digital means. Do you want to speak to that a little bit? With a mobile app that's connecting them not only to construction gigs, but now the platform that we're going to be building in tangent with this is an actual training platform, right? Where construction workers can be on our mobile app, whether they're employed full-time for a construction company or they're looking for construction gigs and be able to access in real-time training data and programs for the construction sector seeing that sort of pivot with this notion of modern methods of construction, offsite manufacturing? We had conversations with some of our other partners and colleagues, and it really is about what we see as a traditional on-site role is shifting, especially in a manufactured environment. Are you seeing that come across your desk as far as the need for a multi-trade individual as opposed to the on-site traditional methods being utilized in offsite.
John Reid (10:43.522)
The future is going to be these people that can do a little bit of everything, right? They don't have to be a, you know, a killer finishing carpenter or killer electrician, right? For lack of better words, they need to, you know, kind of know a little bit of everything because as the construction industry starts to grow, there's going to be offsite manufacturing and you're seeing that obviously today. And it's going to kind of be, you know, I don't want to dumb it down and say it's going to be like Jenga, but there is going to be that avenue where you're going to get these like, you know, bathroom kits that come into your tower and you know it's a one-stop shop just screw in da da da da da right so I definitely think that there's going to be more of that we're seeing more of that through the platform we get a lot of requests that come through that's like hey I need a guy or a girl that you know has a you know carpentry background and also a landscaping background whatever that is so yeah definitely starting to see more of the multi-skilled stuff come online our platform we need to talk to the people that are actually building these projects and then we'll get a better kind bird's-eye view into what we need. And that's something that you and I have been obviously working on a lot. I think we've interviewed 15 different subcontractors across the Western Canadian landscape, and it's been pretty insightful for us to see what they need.
Amy Villis
So I know we're early days on that, but what sort of insights have you gotten from them so far or some repeatable themes?
Yeah, I think some of the repeatable themes is definitely access to training, right? Like we talked to a couple of like the mid-level apprentice people that are like, hey, you know, I want to learn and these are the construction workers telling us this is like, hey, like, you know, it's really great that I see this path, but I want more. And that kind of goes into the multi-skilled facet things, right? Of like, hey, I'm a level two, you know, plumbing apprentice, but like, it would be awesome if I could learn a little bit of carpentry to understand X, Y, and Z that's happening on the project.
Amy Villis (12:37.132)
So again, I think it's like access and there's going to be people that are going to love it and they're going to be like bookworms. And you saw that in the tech sector of people who learned how to code themselves. And there's going be people that, you know, maybe they just want to go the traditional route. I want to just be a plumber, right? But I think it's giving them the option. I think what a lot of people want, especially the construction workers as we've talked about, weren't appealing for lots of folks. know, shifting back into a space where they can work in a gig economy space where they're earning and then they're learning at the same time, you know, is a big shift. And creating a more digital ready workforce is a huge piece around attracting new folks to doing things differently with technologies involved. Have you seen a shift in that as far as what folks are looking for? when they're applying on the site.
John Reid
Yeah, I think, you know, goes back to your retirement kind of mantra that we've we've chatted about offline and a little bit online here today is like the next generation of people that are working are mobile first people. They're not going to apply and go do an interview and X, Y and Z. Right. You're already seeing it. I hate to use TikTok as an example, but like, you know, the Gen Z workforce that's coming is like quick gigs, learning, you know, getting paid, whether it's daily or weekly right? And having access to a technology tool, being able to almost be their own boss. I know it's that's sometimes frowned upon. People are like, well, you know, these construction workers work for me. I shouldn't give them the option to choose and whatnot. like, yeah, like it's the gig economy is such a big ecosystem. It's growing every single year more and more and more. If you look at like Upwork, for example, which is one of the largest gig economy companies in the world, I believe for mainly for software engineers, designers, et cetera, but like they have an interactive way where people can get up skilled and make more money over time, right? And so, if we can be the conduit for the construction industry to be able to upskill people and find them better career paths, that's gonna be an amazing way to drive people to our site, but also drive people to construction industry and drive young people to the construction industry, right? It's kind of been the pushed away to the side job for the longest time, but I think we are starting to see a massive increase of young people coming to our platform looking for construction work. I would love to see kind of that bootcamp model of like, hey, maybe there are programs that are out there. I believe there was one in Toronto that was trying to do it. It was like a week's bootcamp for someone to learn like a little bit about everything in construction. And I think I'd love to see more of that happening.
Amy Villis
Awesome. I love that.
John Reid (15:23.82)
whether it's at the high school level or whether it's bootcamp programs, whether it's post-university or if you didn't go to university, there's that access. I would love to see some government funding around that where there's these bootcamp centers where someone can come in and kind of learn a little bit about construction before they make the jump.
Amy Villis
As we move from workforce innovation to digital tools supporting it, our next guest brings a great perspective on how technology is helping people work smarter across the industry. Ellen Hlozen is the Director of Strategic Alliances at TRACS, Canada's leading regulatory platform for design and construction sector. TRACS is changing how building officials, designers and construction professionals access and apply information, giving the workforce the tools and confidence to work more efficiently and consistently across projects.
How is Tracks Codes leveraging AI to accomplish supporting local governments in their reviews and empowering the workforce in using AI as a skilling tool?
Ellen Hlozen
Our tracks codes tool has created a digital library of all of the building codes, associated acts, amendments, et cetera, for all of the provinces in Canada. And so what we're doing with that is linking to all the associated regulatory information that's listed in the codes, making it easier to navigate. And we're also offering things like a code comparison tool. We also have a building code Q and A. So you can ask the building cones a question in plain language and have a conversation with the codes. So it really helps people get where they're going a little bit faster, understand where to find the information they're looking for, and just take them to that really quickly. On the learning side of things, we obviously partnered with digital to create an AI adoption course, which is called Understanding AI Assisted Regulatory Workflows. And what we're doing with that is trying to create a level of foundational understanding around how AI works. What we noticed out in the field is that many of our municipal customers
hundreds of municipalities that we chat with, were all kind of knowing that they needed to do some due diligence around AI use in their municipality, but there was a bit of confusion about what kinds of questions they needed to ask, what was the right approach, and how to make decisions when adopting an AI tool. So we decided to create a course that could help give that foundational understanding and address things like ethics in use in government looking at what actual types of AI are out there. There's more than just generative AI and they've been around for many years. So understanding all the variations, how they can be used and what the right application is of AI in such a workflow.
Amy Villis
That's excellent. So what do you think some of the significant barriers that you're encountering when trying to upskill local governments and industry teams as well to ensure that technology driven housing production is met?
Ellen Hlozen
Yeah, some of the roadblocks there are around this being kind of a historically underserved market when it comes to software tools. So there's actually not a lot of tools out there that are really tailored to building officials and to builders. So there's just a lack of resources in one sense. And then the resources that are out there, what I've noticed in talking with hundreds of building officials and hundreds of builders is that there's kind of a lack of end-to-end complete solutions. So there are a few solutions out there that can target very specific parts of the permitting life cycle, but they don't kind of cover the full end to end. They don't provide data analytics. So the opinion that I've formed around this is that there's kind of a missing middle in housing, obviously, that we're always talking about, but there's also a bit of a missing middle when it comes to software solutions in the field. There are things that are digital, but still very manual. So, you know, using a PDF, for example, is not really a digital first approach. And then there are solutions on the other far end that maybe take things a little bit far.
So there may be a bit too early using things that are still in their research phases or infancy as a technology. And so there's this kind of middle ground that we can really focus on that would help support building officials and builders. And we'll just get them where they need to go a little bit faster without necessarily always using AI. Something I've noticed is that there's a big jump that a lot of people want to make in going from zero to a hundred working from paper and then going straight to AI. And there's maybe some incremental change that could happen in the middle there. And building on top of tools like what Traxxas developed, a regulatory database is the first step towards any kind of intelligent automation that can happen in this space. So that's why we started with that particular tool to really help support people with intelligence behind it versus pinpointing different elements of the building process and just focusing on those without a systems first approach.
Amy Villis
I appreciate that. So when piloting, if it's an AI product or any digital training for local governments and industry partners, how do you ensure both new entrants and experienced team members acquire the future ready skills they need to build today's environment?
Ellen Hlozen
Yeah, well, we worked with a lot of partners on the Understanding AI-assisted regulatory workflows training that digital supported us on. We worked specifically with our partners at the OVOA, the Ontario Building Officials Association, the BOABC, the Building Officials Association of BC, as well as FNBOA, the First Nations National Building Officers Association. And so all of these organizations are membership organizations that represent professionals out in the field, and they really know what their members are struggling with.
Additionally, Trax has obviously hundreds of municipal customers. And so we also hear these things direct from our customers. So we put together a few different advisory committees and we really worked hand in hand with the associations as well as our curriculum consultants and instructional designer to understand how we could best communicate what building officials and builders were looking for in having a foundational understanding of AI and how to structure that best for an adult continue education audience who wants to learn things very pragmatically, very specifically and in the field. So we tried to incorporate a lot of doing it yourself and case studies into the training so that people could see their own experience reflected in what they're learning and understand how that would apply in their day-to-day work, as well as giving them these different case study options so that they can actually try it in real time experiment with different tools and really feel that they're actually getting a good sense of how this works and how they can implement it into their actual day-to-day work once the training is over because it's not useful if you can't implement it.
Amy Villis
What would one of the examples be about one of the topics or the case studies that you guys sort of realized were a good subject to tackle based on your research?
Ellen Hlozen
Yeah, so we looked at a few different things. So on our advisory committee, we had both fire prevention officers, planners, building officials, members of First Nations communities that would all be prospective audiences for the training. And so what we tried to do was develop, for example, one of the learning pieces is looking at how to write a good prompt because the quality of what you get back from a regulatory database that's AI enabled also is a little bit dependent on sometimes how you ask the question so that it can be understood clearly what information you want to access. And so we developed a series of prompts that kind of spoke to all of those audiences and looked at different elements of the code and regulatory environment. So it could be a question that relates to the Planning Act, specifically to fire prevention, specifically looking at part nine, because First Nations communities emphasize that that's the most applicable piece of the building code that they might choose to adopt.
Amy Villis
What potential do you see for AI-powered permit review training to open up new career paths, improve efficiency, and inspire future innovations across Canada's housing sector for both local government, staff, and construction workforce?
Ellen Hlozen
The one avenue of opportunity I see is that we obviously need a lot of young people to start entering the building official field, given how many permits need to be approved by 2030, according to CMHC. And so making it easier and more enticing as a career option for young people is really key. And some of what we've heard at partner conferences is that young people are really excited to have a digital first way to engage with codes and regulatory information. It's in fact what they expect when coming into a workforce. They've been doing all of their schooling in a lot of digital formats. And when they get to something like learning building codes and they're presented with a physical book or a PDF that isn't searchable, that doesn't really work very well for them. I think having more digital first tools is really going to encourage new people to enter the field, younger people, more diverse audiences, which is really key to meeting that housing gap.
Amy Villis
Obviously with a tool like this and the use of a digital first approach to understanding codes, we can look at how we can apply that to a regulatory compliance side of things. So have you guys gotten feedback about that or thought about exploring that area to help augment those review checkers that need that extra horsepower and tool to help with compliance?
Ellen Hlozen (24:44.556)
Yeah, some of what we hear the most from both municipal officials and builders is that what they really need support on is complete and high quality applications for permits. And so this is kind of to my point of like a missing middle of software tools. This is something that can be utilizing AI or might not be, but could really help assist municipalities and builders in that end to end application life cycle. So what I mean by that is the builders sometimes need a little bit more information about what's required of them, what's the municipality looking for, and have they actually met those criteria. And having an intelligence system that can help support them in knowing whether they've put in the right information would be huge for them. It would save rounds of revisions. It would really simplify that process. And then moving on from the applicant side into the review side of the municipality.
What we've heard from municipalities is they want to receive higher quality applications that do meet their criteria. And they also want assistance on some of the smaller checks that they do. Things like understanding if the right trying stamps are on a document, being able to rename certain documents and files correctly, and just doing small checks for things that meet their own municipal policies to make sure those are there when they receive an application so that they don't have to do five to seven or more cycles of review.
And so that would really expedite the ability for more housing to get built faster. And ironically, often we see some tension between builders and municipalities, but this is something that they tend to agree on. So that's a really nice thing that when they each talk to me about it in their own separate environments, they're saying the same thing. So there's alignment there, which is really key. And we've been working on a new product to help support that called Trex Checkmate.
If anyone's interested, whether you're a builder or municipality, please reach out. We'd love to work with you on piloting this new tool.
Amy Villis (26:43.776)
Awesome. And then just as far as capacity building, what are some of the things that you've learned when you're out talking to folks in the field about it, about how they feel capacity can be built?
Ellen Hlozen
So in chatting with municipal officials and looking at the numbers of how many permits are needed, we really need to be supporting them with software tools around building their capacity to review more things by using intelligent systems. using intelligent systems would really support and assist them without taking away any of the really crucial work that they're doing. They're the experts. They know the code inside and out. They're looking at it every hour of the day and their interpretation is really important. So having tools that can kind of offer some additional layers of intelligence and support through AI as more of a co-pilot or an assistant, not something that would actually do the interpreting on their behalf, is really the key, especially in chatting with municipal officials. They want to make sure that everything is safe and sound and tools can support them in that, but not do it for them. I think one of the things that would really help is having consistent data across applicants, reviewers, the municipalities, being able to just really understand where the actual pain points in the process are. And if every different municipality or builder is using a different tool or tools that don't connect to each other, then it can be really difficult to get that aggregate data that would give us a clear sense of where we should be focusing. getting to a point where data can be less siloed and more consistent and transparent across the board would be super useful. Like if things can be viewed at both a federal, a provincial, and a municipal level and be connected, that would just be huge in understanding where we actually need to solve problems and what problems to solve.
Amy Villis (28:39.182)
Agree. Utopia. What is your call to action for those listening? So whether it's government, industry, community who want to champion real change and adopting modern methods and technology for housing innovation right now.
Ellen Hlozen
Make sure you do your due diligence when you're adopting new tools. Make sure you look into what questions to ask and look at a variety of questions. Look at where your data is being stored. Look at what problems are actually being solved for you by a particular software, where it enables you or doesn't enable you. If you're exclusively hearing yes, yes, yes, yes, from a software company, then maybe they're just telling you what you want to hear. So you should be also hearing some no's and learning something when you're engaging with a new company. And I would also say that you want to look at not siloing yourself. So if you're always being enticed or invited to customize and maybe even have devs on your own side of the fence that work on such an application, that's going to create more data silos, which is ultimately not
going to result in an end-to-end systems first approach. So I guess that goes a little bit towards standardization, but the more tools we put into place that silo us, the less we're going to be able to clearly identify and solve problems in the industry.
Amy Villis
that answer. I love it.
Amy Villis (30:03.65)
Thanks so much to John and Ellen for sharing their insights on how new training modules and digital tools are helping set Canadian construction workers up for success. Today's conversation showed how aligning technology, upskilling and smarter systems can help meet Canada's housing challenges. Up next, we'll explore the concept of trees to keys, resilient partnerships, offsite manufacturing and their impact on Indigenous communities. This podcast is powered by Digital's Housing Growth Innovation Program. With support from the province of British Columbia and the Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs.