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Welcome to Coffee Can't Fix Everything, a unique podcast where we delve into the complex and often misunderstood world of mental health, all over a comforting cup of coffee. In each episode, we sit down with a steaming brew to have candid, heart-to-heart conversations about various aspects of mental health.
00:00
Hello everybody, thank you for listening to Coffee Can't Fix Everything. This is a show where we talk about mental health over a cup of coffee.
00:07
and I got none other. Man, I don't know how many times you've been on my show. Too many to count. It's becoming natural at this point. I love it. It's so natural. We had a podcast before we even hit record. Facts. We just went chat and we were like, oh, we actually probably should record, right? We should probably record. Yeah, we could have a part two. Facts. But we got, I don't even know how to introduce you, Kayla, because you do so much. You are a mental health, not only therapist, but influencer.
00:37
Right? Like leader in the community, created the first ever here in the area black mental health conference that was honored to be a part of. Even though sometimes I feel weird about that, Kayla, because I'm not a therapist, so it makes me feel weird that I'm around all these people that really about that life and I'm just, hey, I'm just like...
01:04
I'm an advocate. You know what I'm saying? Don't dim your light. I'm not going to dim my light. You know what I'm not, but I'm like, y'all can speak on that way better than I can. You know what I mean? But as a health equity advocate, and I advocate for all areas of health equity, right? Mental health is a big part of that, and I am a believer of having easy mental wellness access for all. So
01:32
and I have lived experience, so there's, I feel like I should have been there, but it's like, I was like, yo, there's some, I forgot the lady who sat next to me. Deborah Carr. Deborah, woo! I was like, golly! She's that girl. I know what to say, I'm like, what do I say after? I'm like, what do I say after? Yes, yes. But Kayla, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. But a common theme that I've been noticing, and what,
02:02
Just with some of your content lately, just around me in general, is the importance of community healing. Yeah. When I say that to you, when I say community healing, what does that mean to you? Yeah, so to me it's like warmth.
02:23
It's love, it's care, it's intentional, and it's a multitude of it. So a lot of times we think about healing, therapy, we think about this one-to-one, either relationship with myself or relationship with a helping professional. When we think about community healing, it's like a complete embrace. You have pockets and environments and spaces that you can go to to know that you'll always have something or someone available to you to support you. So it's this inherent belongingness, connection. That's what I think about community healing.
02:53
but the beautiful piece kind of going back to years you started saying like I don't know if I should be in this space I was like it's not only mixed up professionals especially as black people we have so many ancestral practices naturally you was talking you just like you know God got me like you know like I just aged myself you know where did that come from? What did I say? I was like that's the ancestral wisdom inside you right? I believe us as community we have so many things that make us who we are that overcome situations that's like embracing the community with just that
03:22
professionals but it doesn't have to be professionals. Yeah. Whatever community means to you. That's so true and you said something, I could assume your content. Thank you. And so you know you said something, I don't remember what it was but you had talked about going, it makes sense with community, is that there are times where there are practices that we have in our community that aren't evidence based but it is not evidence based. There are people that feel like it's irrelevant or it doesn't work. Yes, 100%.
03:52
that my grandma was not a licensed nothing, but there are things that she, she wasn't no doctor, but she gave me something that's something her grandma told her or whatever, that worked for me. 100%. So like, how do we start to incorporate or mesh that, that kind of that community healing aspect or those things that we pass down from our ancestors into these professional spaces? Because they, they are, they're important.
04:22
As it starts we have to believe them that they work, right? It's not voodoo, it's not those things. They work, they're helpful, and they have value. That's where we get the separation between this is evidence-based, this is what works, this is helpful, which is helpful, but then we devalue all these other practices because they never get permission to go into the rooms to be research-based. That's money, that's a whole other conversation, right? So we have to take the capitalism out of the healing practices that we already do, right?
04:52
that starts with learning like what are the ways that my people have been healing long before we had access to therapy long before we had access to a lot of health care and I mean my mom told me a cup of tea and some mustard will help my digestive issues and I live by that I didn't need to go to my PCP to find out I said stomach hurt where my mustard and it works I'll tell you that drug works till this day little honey right but I learned it because my mom told me and I trusted her and I believed her right I tried
05:22
Because truthfully, the things that we do, we go, we seek help from someone, we trust them, we believe them because we see their credentials. So we are already kind of monopolizing who has the right to help us and help heal us. But then we don't have access to them often, right? So if I don't have finances, then what does that mean? I'm by myself. Community Healing is realizing, no, I got this. So before we think about evidence-based and bringing it, lived experience evidence has to be a part of the play. It can't just be only driven by this qualitative and quantitative measure of like, this is what's helpful for people.
05:52
because sometimes every person doesn't get opportunities to enter that room. So I was looking at who are the lived experiences and can that be lived evidence as well? I've seen that this is helpful to you. How about you try this as well? And maybe it's not, maybe it will, but that's where you get to build some trust is actually realizing, no, we know what we're doing as well and we can get more help in these specific spaces if we get lost and we need additional support. Yeah, wow, that's so real. That's so real. I'm gonna try the muster joint next time I have some problems.
06:22
You should. Let me know. A spoonful of mustard. Now, if there's any doctors watching this, listen, don't come for me. I'm not claiming it works. I'm just saying it worked for me. It worked for my mama. That's enough evidence for me. It is helpful. The one thing that's coming in my mind right now when I'm thinking about community and trying to be an advocate or someone that's there to serve and help is how can we
06:52
heal the community when ourselves are still going through a healing process. Right? Like I would love to get your thoughts on it but like I am like myself I'm going through my own mental wellness journey. Yeah. Right? And sometimes it feels like...
07:07
you may feel like a hypocrite, like who am I to help somebody when I'm, I can barely help myself. Yeah, absolutely. How do you work through that? Absolutely, well, when we think of healing, healing isn't done in isolation, right? So we heal in connection with other people. The only way that we would heal in isolation is the idea we just lived in isolation. But because we're social beings, we're constantly having interactions between each other. That's why like a random act of kindness can make someone else's day, you pass that ripple down to other people. So when we think about how do I help others,
07:37
can't help myself, it's more of how do I help others as I help myself because what ends up happening is if I'm helping someone else as I'm trying to help myself through that, that person is being helped and then that gets passed down, right? We're creating a ripple of everyone helping each other, right? And so we think about like a whirlpool of you keep moving that motion, eventually you create a whole new motion in which everyone is feeling helped and supported. So if you feel stuck, well I know I'm not alone in this, as I'm figuring out myself I know someone else has my back, right? And that's the beauty I think in the black
08:07
collectivistic, right? We think about grief. No matter what happens in your life, somebody's coming to bring you food, they're checking in on you. That's real. You know, that's part of healing and community is when you have community, it's not necessarily my stuff doesn't matter. It's like my stuff matters, but I recognize your stuff matters too. And then we kind of help each other. So kind of like navigating a boat that feels like a shaky, it's like we're making sure that this is in rhythm and the rhythm is in connection. Yeah, and it's almost like it's built in because you immediately feel that way.
08:37
going through something, immediately, how can I support? Right, yeah. Let's make them something, let's support them in some way. I know it can be hard to do so, you know, for some people, depending on life situations, but it almost feels like a natural pull to wanna do it, and maybe that's just how we've been all along. Right, yeah. I mean, historically, we've always only had each other. Right, in the most horrific conditions, literally. So it's like, I see them hurting and aching.
09:07
them up in that moment. It's not like I want you to like be down. That's individualism, right? So how can I lift you up? And then knowing your boundaries, I think where we're at in society now is like, yes, you might not have so much to give. That's a checking with yourself. Say, what can I offer? Does it feel okay? And if I can't offer it right now, when can I offer it? Who can offer to help me as well in the process? Right, right. You know, 2024, you know, now the community looks
09:37
You have a great, you have a huge community on online presence. How is there, walk me through your process of how you cultivate your community. Is there something you go through? Is it just you like, okay this is what I think my community needs? How do you work through that? Absolutely. I love TikTok. For the main reason it makes healing so accessible. So how I typically, I think of it as community healing.
10:07
In many ways, I'm building relationships with people. So I respond to every comment. I mean, I get to it right in that moment, that day, but I see it as like every person I'm interacting with is not a follower, it's a person that's supporting me. And their supporting me makes me like wanna support as well. So they ask questions. I'm like, is that a question that I can answer? I make a video to reply. I thank people for following me. I thank them for their comments. I soak in the messages. Like they're starting to give me affirmations. I didn't expect that when I first started.
10:37
I get DMs, multiple DMs, comments saying like how this has been so helpful to them because they didn't have a therapist and couldn't afford it. And someone recently posted saying, I've always felt this way, but now I feel like I actually can help this part of me that's been stuck. So for me, it's more of a, I recognize sometimes I'm going through something and I have some thoughts about it and I put that into the world. Cause I recognize I'm not a person individual. Like if I'm feeling something, there's probably somebody out there that feels that. Yeah.
11:07
You can almost feel like, and this is anything, you can almost feel like, man, I'm the only one feeling this or I'm the only one who's had this experience and you can just give it to the world and there are thousands of people who've had the same exact experience but maybe didn't have a solution to it or a way of expressing it. And then they're feeling seen like, oh my gosh, this person that is thousands of miles from me
11:36
me. Right, yeah. That is so, it is, it's almost unbelievable in the way like, but you're that person. Like you're the person. Which is wild. That's like, like, I live a hop, skip, and a jump from you, but I'm on TikTok and you say something like, man, community healing is this that and the third. I'm like, it is, can you believe it? Yeah, yeah, it's back.
12:02
And that's the beauty, right? It's like, cause you said they see me, but it's like, how powerful is it to feel seen? Because often people are feeling like I'm not seen or I can't talk about it, or they feel ashamed. This is really what my platform is all about. It's like, I want to alleviate shame related to what we feel because shame is the thing that keeps us stuck. And then it doesn't give us permission to open up and share because we're just too embarrassed or afraid of what might happen or how we might be believed or felt by others or even seen by others. So it was like, open it up. It's like, I'm going to share this. I know there's someone else out there.
12:32
It gives permission to say, oh I feel that too. And then we have permission to create community. Right? Because now I don't have to hold my pain by myself. It's okay to feel this pain with someone else because that's invited in. And I think a lot of times thinking community healing was the barriers, it's like there's not an invitation. Right? Community isn't always community, right? It's like people come together, but are we actually in relationship with each other? Or are we in comparisons? Or are we judging? Or is it just based on a transactional relationship? We're in community because we gotta get this other thing done.
13:02
I believe in community healing is it's an invitation for you to bring your full self in and be accepted, warm, communicated with, loved, comforted, all of these pieces in whatever state that you're in and we're knowing that you can work through things together. That's in itself is where that pain and the burdens get to start to be released. No that's real and one thing that's a beautiful thing about community sometimes maybe can be difficult to maneuver around is community is also multi-generational. Yeah. There are so
13:32
many you know the way that I would talk to my mom would be different than I talk to you, be different than I talk to my daughter, but you navigate that so well because you're also in many different spaces. Yeah right you gotta have your therapy talk which sometimes depending on who you're speaking with could be your normal self but sometimes you're talking to maybe somebody older or how
14:02
connect with your community but understanding that some of them are coming from different areas or different times. Yeah I start with that piece right there is like they're coming from different spaces and compassion right. We have very different walks of life. I'm very different than a lot of people. I really connect with them. It's just very different and I can joke about it. My grandma we talk and I'm like she's like don't you go dye your hair red. We live in two different generations. So when I first started
14:32
healing though, I perceived that as judgment though. Like there were so many parts to me that held shame. It's like I feel like you're attacking my way of living and that disconnected us from being in community because I felt like we couldn't be here. When I started to heal and recognize what was being activated inside me, first and foremost I realized I just needed acceptance, right? And I had to figure out how to work with that feeling and where did that come from this need of acceptance and belonging in this particular way and how I felt if they couldn't offer me that in that way. So as I develop more compassion,
15:02
for myself and I was able to create communities where I felt like I could receive that I was able to open up the door for communities with people who maybe couldn't offer that in the ways that I needed that because that was my wound that got activated and I had to figure out how do I get support to help through that and how do I build community that can help with that so when I'm talking to people in different generations or even different backgrounds it's more of like what's the hope in this conversation if you're coming with compassion and I'm coming with compassion then we can have a conversation we can hold space for each other and I can have more empathy and
15:32
you're coming from, you can have empathy and understand where I'm coming from because our shared goal is community. Sometimes we have these conversations, shared goal isn't community. It's I want to disagree. I want to be right. I want to figure out all these different pieces, but it's not true community and connection. Right. Do you feel like people force community sometimes? Oh, a hundred percent. Um, I would say this was happening before the pandemic. And I think we're socialized when you think about school, like you're in a classroom, you're expected to be friends. I work, you know, with college students and like, Oh,
16:01
time of my life is like it may not right you may be your best friends in college or in high school but you may not you might meet them at a workplace you might meet them at a random event you might meet them at a bar or somehow you might be at church so i think what happens is socially we say these are the spaces where community is supposed to happen but the systems and structures in place aren't building community they're building a lot of partnerships they're building a lot of networking but i feel like community is different and when you force it that's when you feel that rift that's
16:31
internally start to blame yourself or blame someone else which pulls you further away. Yeah and you see it especially in schools and college. I would say more so high school or like middle school. And I've seen myself do it in a sense of like hey go play with them kids over there. You know what I'm saying? Like y'all like they like family gatherings. Oh my god that's your
17:01
Exactly. Now I gotta be like, luckily I'm grateful to have cousins that I grew up with and that I love. They are my best friends. But I also got cousins that I've never met in my life. And I was expected to go like...
17:14
Kickin' out. I don't know. I mean, yeah, are we really cousins? Because you could just be a friend of my mama Or if I don't like you, right? Yo! Like when you think of like all these dynamics, so yes, even Yeah Embedded yes blood or family should be it could be that's how we talk and socialize to be like that's family But that might not be people's community all the time. Yeah, that's so that's so real. That's a real walk me through I want to go back to
17:42
kind of the online, the internet communities, you know, and not specifically TikTok, but just like social media in general, because you're building a positive community, but we also know there is a dark side to some of that too. How do you maneuver some of the negativity within maybe your own community, or like how if somebody is just maybe more of a consumer in trying to be a part of the community?
18:12
Like what, do you have any thoughts or ideas of how somebody can kind of stay away from the negativity? Because that's hard to do, but I know it's a hard question, but like any thoughts? Absolutely.
18:28
When we think of the negativity, it starts as an energy experience or energetic experience. How you're feeling when you look at someone's content should tell you a little bit about what's happening. And this is when you talk about forcing community because a lot of times we're like, oh, I really like them because they're this popular person or they're talking about this, but I'm not really vibing with them. I'm not connecting. I only like what they say or I don't like what's happening. But you feel forced or inclined to continue to engage. We're already dismissing what our body is telling us. And I went through this with someone.
18:58
technique-wise, very aligned. But when I looked at their content all the time, and they're very popular influence, I'm like, wow, they're cool, maybe it's me. And I was like, I don't feel happy when I look at their page. Like, the things and the way they talk about people, not necessarily people we work with, but people who disagree with them, that didn't connect with me. And I was like, well, why am I still following? Like, what is happening in this? And I think that's the difference in online presence versus in person presence and community is I can ask myself, what is the intent behind me
19:28
For me, I was like I felt guilty if I unfollowed they're following me. We're in community Yeah, I know but is this it is this community or this what I believe it should be with community And so checking in how are you feeling because I truly believe social media is a beautiful tool. It has a dark side But I'm curious. I what am I consuming? Is this something that I feel good with and do I want this on my page? Do I not want this on my page in comments, you know, there's trolls as you call them. Yeah Come back I
19:58
as well and was inviting what kind of disagreeableness did I want to hold, right? Because there are people who can disagree and that's okay because everybody's not going to be friendly online like you're open up into a whole space. Oh yeah. But there are people that are out there that maybe intentionally try to hurt you with their comments and I started to choose and decipher and have discernment about what felt right for me to respond to. Right. You know what I've noticed too, and notice this has happened a whole lot, for me I am out here popping like you in
20:28
social media streets. But there was one time where I did receive a negative comment, and I responded very respectfully. And somebody replied to my response. It was like, yeah. It was almost like your community is, they want to know how are you going to respond? They're watching you. How are you going to respond to this comment? You know what I'm saying? And that could almost.
20:57
improve the strength in your community even more. Yes, yes. Because they know, okay, they are riding for what they said. They ain't gonna punk out. Integrity, yes, integrity is important. Oh my gosh, I went on this dang rant and I forgot what I was gonna say next. No, but I'm building that though, because what you're saying is why I hear a lot of people that struggle to build community and have online presence because they're afraid often of how my people see me.
21:27
And I think that shows up in online because you're more vulnerable. You're not really in control of how people see you because you're public. As soon as you hit posts. It's there. But that's exactly what happens on a micro level of community, right? It's like, ooh, if I talk to this person or if I try to connect, I'm so worried about how they'll see me or how they'll view me, that that stops me from feeling I can be authentic in community, right? So it's the same thing that happens on social media where people are like, oh, should I post this or not? What if people say this? We see that replicated in our micro community.
21:57
as well. How many times, I remember my question, how many times do you feel like your community has changed with you? I feel like you know as a shorty my community is one thing but now as a 40 year old man my community is totally different. Yeah, yeah. Like what is that process like for you or how is that how has that evolved for you? I've been thinking about that a lot. I think I'm really blessed because the community I built when I was very young
22:27
I would say college and earlier has grown with me.
22:32
And I feel honored all the time. Because I'm like, if people who knew me before, or like before grad school, like we're still homies. We still, I was on the phone talking to one of my friends earlier. Like, it's a closeness. And I feel there's a level of vulnerability. And they've grown as well. Like, not in the same ways we've grown, but we've held space for each other to grow, to build connection. I've noticed that my community has changed so much for people who met me after grad school. And that has shape shifted even more so than that foundation.
23:02
And so I realized that community hasn't evolved as much with me as much as I would hope. And it's something I'm still thinking about, like, what is going on within that? But I think more of the communities that you really invest in, when you think about it being like a garden and a seed, how much are we investing in community now? Because I see that more of like timing, rather than like you in my age, because you and I, like we've had so many, right? We've grown in here. But I feel like there was a lot of intention and care and connection that was built compared
23:32
when I look at the relationship that haven't grown with me, I feel like we collectively haven't been watering the depths of the seeds. And I also realized for me, my community needs have changed. Where maybe when I was in certain points in time, that community meant like, hey, let's help through these certain situations happening in our life. But as I've grown within myself, community is meaning I want the roots, right? I want a deeper connection. I want a more personable connection. I want to be seen and known. I want to also see and know you as well. And then not to feel threatening
24:02
Harrison or any of that and I've noticed like that has been the difference for me and what community grows with me because that's a Stronger need than maybe I had been aware of when I was younger. No, that's that's so real. I think for me as It's funny because as I get older not funny because as I get older I know exactly what I want to contribute to a community. I know who I want to be a part of my community. Yeah, and I'm not making any exceptions or any
24:32
or anything because it's, you know, it is hard enough, you know, feeling like you're alone to have people a part of your community that don't know how to maybe... If I didn't have anybody that I would say like my top five people, if I didn't have anybody, one of them I can call and be able to vent to.
24:57
without getting like a, oh, word? Oh, that's crazy. You know what I'm saying? It's like, what are we doing? You know, what am I doing? Because I wanna pour into you, I also wanna be poured into you. And if I'm not getting that from the ones that are saying this is my community, then.
25:16
maybe it's time for me to re-evaluate who's a part of that community. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I would even say it sounds like, because often our first thought is like, all right, I gotta cut people off, right? You know, you know what? And I've been there, I've been there, I know it. But I say it's now you get to re-evaluate the investment, right, think of like the gardens you have, right? Okay, maybe this piece of my community, like this is the type of water, this is the type of soil, this type of nourishment, this needs, but with this community that I'm wanting here, this is what I need within that.
25:46
have a place anymore. Right. But the type of investment and the time you spend in that community might shift depending on like where you're at in that time of your life. Right. That's real. So before I get you going, I got to bring it up. I didn't want to. I wanted to wait. I ain't gonna be nervous. My city, my health. Hey, okay. 2024. Look, I won't say that I'm crazy. I was nervous. Where's you going? We got you back for the third year.
26:16
So you just tell me time and date. I was like, I'll pop up. In a row. And it's so funny how our conversation here aligns with the conversation we're having at My City My Health for the mental health panel. And why I think it's important is that like, one, I wanna get your thoughts on My City My Health in general, I wanna get your thoughts on that. But two is the conversation we're having around community.
26:44
and why that is important for the healthcare professional to really understand. Because like, we've been talking about it today around the things that are not evidence-based. Well, when we're trying to build community, there may be an evidence-based way framework to build community, but like, I don't think it's, it's not as great as just what we're talking about today. So like.
27:13
One, My City My Health, how you feeling about it? Yeah. What are your thoughts about it? Yeah. And two, when we're talking about that within the public health framework, why is that important? Absolutely. Yeah. So what I hear you actually, as you were saying, it finally came to my mind. Like My City My Health, I used to see that as like, that's Corey. Yeah, I hear you doing it. Like, he sounds like that's dope. And now as I hear you talk about My City My Health and compound with community healing,
27:43
Everybody is saying my city, my health. So it's a collective embrace of like, yeah, this our city, this our health, you know what I mean? And so it's like that my feels like collectively powerful. Right? So when I think of it, it's so exciting. It's such a vibe. I look forward to it all the time because that's the first of anything I've ever been to. Like when I say I walked in, I was listening to Fantasia when I see you, I said, oh, my people.
28:08
I said, oh, this is different. This is not the mindfulness, you know, elevator music. I was like, oh, this is fine. And I felt like I could be myself. I felt like I didn't have to code switch. To me, that changed the game for me, you know? Whereas like to be in a space where I can just talk and I did not care, but I also felt invited in. Like you could feel the energy. There's a desire to have people be authentic. And so I felt like my full blackness was in that space. So I love that. And that's probably why you hear me in those spaces. Like I just feel, it just comes.
28:38
because I'm like, I'm here, you know. As it relates to healthcare in like the importance we think about community healing, and this is what I tell, like especially the therapists that I supervise as well, when they leave your office, where are they going? Right? And if this is the only place that they have access to care, healing, comfort, support, we have a huge problem. Because then we're sending people out into isolation and we think about the impacts that has on mental, physical, social, all kinds of health,
29:08
effect where they become dependent on this one micro time in their day. And we think about therapy, that's often maybe a 60 minute session once a week. When you think about other health care, that's maybe like a 15 to 20 minute session. Who knows how often, right? So we're doing people a disservice when we do not emphasize the impact that community can have. When we emphasize who else is on this care team, maybe there's someone else that can help with medication, there's other people that can provide clarification, there's other people that can provide you support if you need to, then your having wellness becomes
29:38
more sustainable. And I believe that is a lot more sustainable than anything that we are doing in this moment. We work together. We do good in a health care setting, but we don't often invite in other people to the play. We don't ask who else should be a part of this treatment? Who else do you feel like should be invited into these meetings with you, these opportunities, these appointments? Because that is where we get more collective help because if they fall outside of your space, they have someone they can call before and guess what? That person is often free. Because realistically we talk about it, community, I don't believe community should be paid for.
30:08
I believe it should be inherent. And if the only community someone has is something that they have to be paid for, we have a problem. No, that's real. That's real. And I'm gonna leave it at that. Period. That period. Kayla, as always, pleasure. I learned so much. Likewise. Thank you so much. Everybody, this was just a conversation around mental health. I am not a mental health therapist. Kayla is.
30:38
outside of you and Brand, I'd be like, we ain't therapists, but yo, we got one. But I want you to get help. Information to receive help or find help will be in the description of this episode. Coffee can't fix everything, but we will have a conversation over coffee every time till we get there. I'll holler at you next time.