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At some point in our lives we all get scared – of making the wrong decision, of not being a good parent, or that everyone will figure out we’re just making it up as we go.
I’ve spent years helping leaders work through fear, stress, and uncertainty. Now I’m making a podcast about how they face their fears and come out stronger.
It’s for founders, leaders, and business owners who feel like they’re constantly fighting uphill and not finding the balance they need to be effective at work and present at home.
Sally-Anne 00:00:17 I'm Sally Annemarie and welcome to Fearless Forward, the podcast that asks leaders how they face their fears.
Sally-Anne 00:00:26 Today I'm in conversation with a woman who's devoted her life to the service of others, and now in midlife is shining in a leadership role she never expected. Esther Taylor is CEO of the lady Macadam Breast Cancer Trust, a local charity based at Leigh on Sea and Essex, and which this year is celebrating its 50th anniversary. Breast cancer remains the most common form of cancer in the UK. Around 57,000 new cases are diagnosed every year, and organizations such as hers are in the frontline of a long standing and successful campaign to improve long term survivability. Esther's trust focuses on providing practical and emotional support to patients and their families, and promoting breast health awareness and education across Essex. Esther originally trained as a teacher as well as taking time out to be a full time mother to her two daughters. She's always been passionate about the charity sector. I love that you can have a real impact and make a difference in people's lives, she says.
Sally-Anne 00:01:30 Over the years, she's worked in a string of charities, including founding a children's charity with her husband. She's made a habit of stepping into opportunities as they arise, and three years ago, a chance encounter started a chain of events that led her to taking on her current role. Since then, she's been on a mission to change and maximise the trust's impact in the community. So, Esther, this is your first CEO role and it's a big one. How does it feel?
Esther Taylor 00:02:02 Yeah, well, I'm three, three years into it now. I think if you'd asked me that at the start, I'd have said very daunting. a lot to take in, a lot to learn. But three years down the line, and, I really enjoy it. I've got an amazing team, and, I've been able to bring about some really good changes for the charity and kind of update it a bit. which has been really exciting, and we're at an exciting phase and stages of charity. so being able to lead it is a real privilege.
Sally-Anne 00:02:41 and what kind of changes have you brought about?
Esther Taylor 00:02:45 So when I first started working for the charity, we were just concentrating on educating and raising awareness about breast cancer. The charity has a long history, locally, for, it was the first place to offer women their mammograms. before the NHS even offered them. And, the decision was made to stop doing that. Going. Coming out of lockdown. for a number of reasons, but mainly because our machine was breaking and our. System was quite convoluted. and also women now get their mammograms on the NHS, and the system they have is absolutely amazing. You go in, it's kind of almost one stop shop. If they discover anything, they'll do further tests there and then and it's all very quick and effective. So the focus was on education and raising awareness. And I think that's always going to be a part of what we do. However, with the the internet and all the information that's out there, there's less need for it. There's always going to be people that want it face to face.
Esther Taylor 00:03:53 I have a team of nurses that anyone can book in with, but through the way that our nurses were starting to work, they were starting to do a lot for advocacy for women who were discovering something was wrong. They'd found a lump, or they'd got a rash trying to get in to see their doctors and struggling to get a GP appointment. So, our nurses have started to advocate on behalf of those women and actually phoning up the GP and saying, we need you to see this person as a matter of urgency. And off the back of that, they're then doing follow up calls and check that they have. The lady or man has been seen and that they've been referred if necessary. and they've found out what the outcome is of, of the issue. So that's meant that we've started to pick up the women and men who have been diagnosed with breast cancer, which we weren't really having anything to do with before. And through conversations with them, it's become very clear that actually there's a lack of support.
Esther Taylor 00:04:55 You know, the NHS is amazing what they do, but they have very limited time to what they can offer. people, especially going through their diagnosis and treatment. So we looked at what we could do as a charity to fill that gap. and we, we visited another charity in London that do support services for people. and were completely blown away by their set up. and I came out of there going, that's what I want, but in Essex. and so we've started small scale. We had a complete renovation of our building downstairs to create a safe, welcoming, peaceful environment. people have commented that they feel like it's a spa when they walk in. there's nothing clinical about it. And, and, yeah, we run a whole programme of sessions to support someone who's either going through or has had breast cancer. So things from Pilates to, reflexology to advice about nutrition. we've had information sessions around chemotherapy, radiotherapy, all of that kind of stuff. And our nurses are also then supporting those people that come in, with 1 to 1 sessions.
Esther Taylor 00:06:15 We're also offering counselling as well. because again, the weight on the NHS, unfortunately, you're looking at probably a year. and we're able to offer it straight away when actually it's needed most. So yeah, it's been a full on, full on year developing all of that side of things.
Sally-Anne 00:06:35 So fantastic. And what I love about what I'm hearing there is that you noticed where the gap was and you looked at how to fill that. Yeah. you kind of regenerated in that sense. You realised that what you had been doing was not optimally useful. Useful, but not as good as it could be. And and you started asking, I guess, the right questions. Yeah. Which brought you to where you are now. And I'm imagining anyone with a cancer diagnosis, breast cancer diagnosis will benefit enormously from having someone walking with them. Yeah. You know, you're walking with. You're walking with them, aren't you? Yeah. Through all the different services that you provide. Yeah. In a holistic way.
Esther Taylor 00:07:20 Yes, absolutely. So we're able to do what the NHS unfortunately can't do. You know, they'd love to be like, we've had our local breast unit say, we'd love to be able to do what you're doing, but they just don't have the capacity, the funding, the time, you know. so we're able to add on to what they do. yeah. Which is really good.
Sally-Anne 00:07:40 Yes. Working in a complementary way, in that sense, plugging that gap and also and also the advocacy part, how wonderful that your team, your nurses will do that, you know, proactively step in and say, look, you need to bring this person further up like you.
Esther Taylor 00:08:00 Yeah. And we've we've had some quite I mean, some sad stories in some ways. I mean, we had one lady last year who by the time she came to us was really stressed out. She'd been trying to get hold of her GP or get an appointment with her GP for over a month, and every time she phoned up she was told it was emergency appointments only and she didn't feel it was an emergency.
Esther Taylor 00:08:23 I'd argue it probably was, but she didn't feel it was so therefore didn't push forward. and Yeah. By the time she came to us, she was really stressed because her symptoms had got worse as well. and our nurse phoned her GP on the Thursday night. She had an appointment the Friday morning. She was referred straight away. And unfortunately, she did have cancer. you know, and in my mind, that month was too long. She shouldn't have had to wait that long. and, Yeah. So we were able to kind of hopefully bridge that gap and reduce that time. Time frame, for, for people that have got concerns.
Sally-Anne 00:09:04 So yes, I'm imagining, you know, some of us are pushy, You know, we'll elbow our way to the front and others of us won't. And for those who won't. You're there to support them. Yeah. So. And this is throughout Essex, isn't it? So presumably also a part of what you do is, is communicating that you're there, making sure people realize that you're there to support them.
Sally-Anne 00:09:28 That's an enormous part of it, I imagine. Right.
Esther Taylor 00:09:31 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's it's still quite a big piece of work that we've got to do because, Lady Macadam was a household name for a long time. for a lot of households, they knew of, of Lady Macadam because that's where women came for their mammograms. and when we stopped doing them, the assumption and we also were based at the hospital, but we've moved building and the assumption was made when we moved building and when we stopped doing the mammograms that actually we ceased existence. so a lot of people are surprised when we say, oh, we work for Lady Macadam. And they were like, oh, we didn't think it existed anymore. So, yeah, we've had to do quite a big piece of work around actually raising our profile again and going. We're here and this is what we're doing. And actually, we're it's our 50th anniversary this year. And, it's it's providing us a really good opportunity to celebrate that and actually reinstate what we're doing and, and, and go out saying that.
Esther Taylor 00:10:31 So, yeah, it's something fun, very exciting.
Sally-Anne 00:10:36 and something about a round number anniversary, isn't there, that, you know, feels momentous and it is momentous. And, you know, you're reinventing yourself, aren't you?
Esther Taylor 00:10:47 Yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:10:48 Yeah, yeah. And what about you as a leader through all of through all of this, you know, this big role, a big, big transformation. How does it how does it feel for you?
Esther Taylor 00:11:02 so I think I've, I've had to grow a lot and, develop, in my confidence, in my own ability. and. It's great in that it's given me quite a lot of opportunity. I'm quite a creative person. I like to be quite innovative and actually working and directing. This charity has been able to give me that space to do that, which has been really good. And we've done some pretty crazy things every day.
Sally-Anne 00:11:39 what kind of what kind of crazy?
Esther Taylor 00:11:41 Well, when I first started. So I started in the march, and, we had the opportunity to take over, an empty shopping unit in one of our local shopping malls.
Esther Taylor 00:11:54 And, I mean, it's a massive shop. If I say H&M used to be in it, that will give you an idea of size.
Sally-Anne 00:12:02 Gosh.
Esther Taylor 00:12:03 And, one of our trustees at the time was working with on the like for the shopping mall, and so he was able to get it for us. and, yeah, we were like, what could we do with this big space? So we'd had we'd got another shop that we'd, we were running a pop up shop, for prom dresses and bride dresses. And my eldest daughter had said at the time, mum, we need a selfie wall. Like everybody loves taking a selfie. but we didn't have space in the shop to do that. So when this opportunity for this unit came up, I was like, what could we do? And then she'd recently been to a place in London called The Selfie Factory, and it's, just got loads of different selfie stations. And I was like, what about if we created our own selfie factory? And, and so we did and we opened it.
Esther Taylor 00:13:02 it was a lot of hard work I had to oversee. We had an amazing guy who does set building. and he came and created, the kind of the, the bare bones of each, selfie station. And then we had to decorate it and kit it out. And so we had one that had a bath in it with pink balls. And we had we actually did have a massive pink ball pit, which was huge. and then we had ones where, we have a whole load of knitted boobs. A local knitting group had made us, so we had a knitted boob wall, that the whole wall was covered in these knitted boobs. and so it was about raising awareness about breast cancer. So we had lots of posters up around the stats and how to get help and what to look out for. and then there was some that were just for fun. So we ended up with, I think it was 12 different stations within this selfie selfie factory and people paid an entrance, which was minimal.
Esther Taylor 00:14:07 and yeah, we had it open for the whole summer. it nearly killed me working on setting it up, but it was worth it. And, we raised, I think it was over £10,000. And, we spoke to over a thousand women in detail about breast cancer. so, yeah, it was interesting because it was originally I'd aimed it at teenagers thinking, actually, as a mum of teenagers, it's not something we're very good at talking to our teenage girls and boys about. And actually they need to be aware of the signs and symptoms. so it was aimed actually at teenagers, but we actually found it was young mums that came in because we had this big ball pit and they just wanted to put their kids in the ball pit. So, we actually didn't have many teenagers, but, we still had a lot of conversations that were really good and really worthwhile. and again, I think it helped raise our profile within the locality. So yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:15:10 Yeah. So it helped raise your profile.
Sally-Anne 00:15:12 you learned a lot. What did you learn in that process that you perhaps hadn't fully understood before?
Esther Taylor 00:15:25 I think I think particularly for the charity sector, I think it's that actually we need to be thinking more outside the box, and we need to approach things for creativity creatively, and differently. I think going out to people with a straightforward ask for money is, is not necessarily working anymore. I think it does in some circumstances, but I think if you can engage people in something that raises money, as well as helping you achieve what you're trying to achieve as a charity. then it's a good way of doing it, I think. I think it made me realise that, you know. Things like that are possible. I didn't, you know, if somebody had said to me or you're going to create a selfie factory, I'd be like, what? So, yeah. So I think it's that actually having the confidence to think outside the box and go with it. so. Yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:16:37 You you sound I mean, you've talked about you've said we a lot.
Sally-Anne 00:16:41 So you sound like a very collaborative, inclusive leader. Is that a fair description?
Esther Taylor 00:16:46 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I very much see the work we do as a team, like we are a team. It's not. It's not just me. It's, you know, everybody has a really important part to play. and I wouldn't be able to do what I do without them. so, yeah, it's very much a way. Not me. working for the charity. So.
Sally-Anne 00:17:13 Yeah. And you are, you know, by any definition, a can do person, aren't you? I mean, that's very clear from what you've said, even in this conversation. Tell us. Tell us more about. Tell us more about that.
Esther Taylor 00:17:28 Yeah. So, my, I think my whole career, journey has been that approach. I, I actually started off training as a teacher. that's what I'd always wanted to be as a as right from a small child. I loved being with children. and that's what I'd always decided I wanted to do.
Esther Taylor 00:17:52 so I trained as a teacher. and I think soon became very aware that actually, wasn't the rose tinted view that I had of it. unfortunately, and actually didn't pass my, university degree. because I had such a rough time in my final practice. my colleagues, unfortunately, weren't very good at supporting me. and my confidence had been really knocked by my second year practice, which I had passed. and kids are very perceptive when it comes to how somebody is feeling. And they picked up on the fact that I wasn't confident. and played on that. And, there were times where I would stand in front of the class in tears because I'd just lost all control of the class. and just couldn't do it. and so initially, I walked away from three years at university with nothing. but I've done my dissertation. And, I actually pursue the university to recognize the theoretical work that I've done. and after a lot of touring and throwing, but a lot of me pushing and saying, this is what I want.
Esther Taylor 00:19:10 they eventually acknowledged that and awarded me a degree in education. So I did come out of it with a degree which, you know, I was quite relieved with having accumulated debt and everything. I then, wasn't sure what I was going to do. I ended up working for a local organization where I was based in Greenwich at the time. and part of their a charity, and part of what they did was schools work. And my boss at the time said, we're going to do schools work. secondary. And I was like, no, we're not, not. Not if primary school kids can do that to me. Secondary school kids will eat me alive. Like that's not going to happen. So he said, well, how would you feel about actually working that through. And I was like. Well, what do you mean? And he was like, well, if we supported you by having giving you therapy, would you be up for that? And I was like, yeah, absolutely.
Esther Taylor 00:20:06 and so I went through a series of, therapy sessions, and it was probably one of the best things that I ever did. I was able to understand why I'd got to that point of not feeling confident, why I'd allowed the children to rule the class, as it were. and yeah, had a much greater understanding of myself and how I'd got to that point.
Sally-Anne 00:20:34 So I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I'm. I'm curious. Would you mind sharing with us what you discovered about yourself that had taken you to that point?
Esther Taylor 00:20:48 I think it it basically boiled down to just having a lack of confidence in myself and my own ability. and therefore that was projected into the class. and I think actually understanding that I had got skills and things to offer. and understanding that. Yeah, that I, I did have something worth sharing. was really helpful. and I did then go on and do schools work.
Sally-Anne 00:21:23 Fantastic.
Esther Taylor 00:21:24 and was fine with it. so. Yeah. And then, then I met my now husband, very randomly through the, the voluntary work that I was doing.
Esther Taylor 00:21:38 And, he was living in bath. and I moved up to two bath. and we happened to be at a party. And was. I ended up chatting to a lady who happened to be, at the time, head of support services at Bath University, and she was in a bit of a stress because she'd got this massive conference that she was supposed to be putting on, and the person running it had walked out on her, and she had no, no one to, to run this conference. and I was, of course, looking for work. So I just turned around to. I'm sure I can do that. She thought really? Well, so yeah, probably that difficult.
Sally-Anne 00:22:22 So you became cocky. Really? You went from super confident to like. Yes.
Esther Taylor 00:22:28 Yeah. And, yeah. So I, I ended up running this conference for Bath University, on dyslexia.
Sally-Anne 00:22:37 Wow.
Esther Taylor 00:22:37 And, Yeah, I had to organise the speakers, attending, getting tickets sold, overseeing all the delegates, the entertainment on the Saturday night.
Esther Taylor 00:22:47 It was a whole weekend thing. yeah. And I, I hit the ground running and and the conference was a success and. Yeah. and at that point, then Will and I actually looked at were looking to move back to Essex because my family were in Essex and, we were looking to move back and again, I was looking for work. So, somebody said to me, you do realize you can teach in the private sector without being a qualified teacher? And I was like, oh, really? So, I wrote I wrote round to all the private schools that I knew were going to be in the area. We were, asking, had they got any vacancies? And, one of them came back saying they were looking for a thing. Co so I, I, I managed to apply and blag my way into a synchro role in a private school.
Sally-Anne 00:23:40 can you spell out spell out Cinco for us? For anyone who may not know what that is.
Esther Taylor 00:23:45 special educational needs coordinator.
Sally-Anne 00:23:48 Okay.
Esther Taylor 00:23:50 yeah. and actually, I ended up doing more teaching than I did the, the Simcoe role. So I ended up actually teaching secondary art and English.
Sally-Anne 00:24:02 Oh, really?
Esther Taylor 00:24:03 Yeah. Which was just mad. but I actually really enjoyed I really enjoyed the art because that gave me an outlet for my creativity. but after a while, I've been there. They said to me, we really do need to get you qualified. and I've done it long enough to know that actually, it wasn't what I wanted to do the rest of my life. So I decided to leave at that point and then got my first actual official role in the charity sector. working for a national, national charity, as their admin assistant. And within a couple of months of being there. and events fundraiser role, had come up. And I said to my boss, actually, I'd really like to do that. that interests me. And so I became their events fundraiser. and did events for, a couple of years. and again, thoroughly enjoyed it.
Esther Taylor 00:25:05 it was quite full on. we were doing events for a couple of thousand people. and, the charity that I worked for had the royal, Princess Anne as their patron. So there was a lot of liaising with the royal family to, because she would attend some of our events. so. Yeah, but I didn't enjoy the commuting. I was having to commute into, London every day and didn't enjoy that. And we were also at a point of trying for a family to, So, ended up working back locally, just doing some part time work. And then, I took a break to have our, our two girls. we were in a fortunate position where we didn't need me to work financially, so I was able to sit back and, and have our goals, which was amazing. Yeah. but even during that time, I mean, I, I, I think I've always if I see a gap, I try to, to fill it. So, when my eldest was three months old, I'd been going to a breastfeeding support group, which would come to the end of.
Esther Taylor 00:26:19 And I'd met one of my now best friends at it, and we both wanted to go to a mother and baby group together to carry on. And when we looked into what was available locally that there wasn't anything because they were all full. So I was like, oh, I'll just start one up then. So, within, probably a space of about 3 to 6 months, I actually had three running a week and Or with between 20 and 25 mums at each group. and I did did that for quite well until my youngest was a two year gap between them. I did that until she was probably six months to a year old. I did it for a couple of years. which was good fun, hard work.
Sally-Anne 00:27:11 You're not afraid of hard work, are you, Esther?
Esther Taylor 00:27:14 No, no. If I if I want to get something done, I'll get it done. And I don't hang around to do it, so, Yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:27:24 You see the gap, you see the gap, and then you go.
Esther Taylor 00:27:27 Yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:27:27 If you're not afraid of hard work, what are you afraid of?
Esther Taylor 00:27:43 I think that's a good question. I think probably that fearful have not been able to do a good enough job. I'm always willing to give something a go, even if it's outside of my expertise or my area of comfort. but yeah, I guess there's always a fear of am I doing it well enough? and, and actually, when you're a leader, it's quite hard to know whether you're doing a good job because you don't necessarily get feedback. Yes. and so it can be quite you can be a little bit in the dark about it. you know, when you're not doing a good job quite often because, people will complain or tell you, but, yeah, when you're doing a good job, you don't necessarily get told. so, yeah, I think that's probably, I would say has been my biggest fear. And also, I think working in the job that I work now, it's very full on, you know, I work full time, and I'm aware there are times where I come home and I'm not very present for my family because I have a lot on my mind.
Esther Taylor 00:29:16 so I think there's a fear of am I am I sacrificing my role as mum, in order to do this? I think my girls would say no, I wasn't. but yeah, I've. I think this role, more than any I've probably had the worst mum guilt. just because it demands so much of me. yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:29:50 Yeah. How do we show up fully in all the different aspects of our lives when they're so full, when the life is so full? It's a tricky, very tricky one for all of us, I think.
Esther Taylor 00:30:02 Yeah, absolutely. I think and, and and also like balancing friendships as well. You know, again, it's really hard when you're full time and trying to see friends and keep up with friends and making sure you're messaging and, you know, yeah, that can be quite hard.
Sally-Anne 00:30:22 And I love that question, you know, how do you know when you're doing a good job, you want to do a good job, you care very much about it, and you have a fear of not doing that.
Sally-Anne 00:30:32 But how do you know. And I wonder if it's the uncertainty of that that keeps that kind of feeds that fear a bit perhaps.
Esther Taylor 00:30:41 Yeah I think so. yeah, I think so. And it's that, you know, I think the question around, like, what impact am I having? and again, I don't, I don't know. and I don't think we're very good at telling people they're doing a good job or how they've impacted you. I often think that when, like, when you go to a funeral, you hear how amazing the person is being the impact they've had. And I've often come away from funerals going. That's actually really sad that I wonder whether they knew, actually, that they'd had this impact. you know, I had it. Unfortunately not last year, the year before a friend suddenly died very quickly. she's only the same age as me. She was also a CEO of a charity. And, The funeral. The thing that stood out was just she'd had such incredible impact on so many people.
Esther Taylor 00:31:48 And I was just like, wow, if only she could see the impact that she'd had. I think she'd been quite blown away.
Sally-Anne 00:31:59 So another gap potentially as to. but but doing it for ourselves is tricky if we're not into self-promotion particularly, and we just want to do a good job and hope it hope it's recognised. Yeah. Implicitly. Almost. but I suppose in the culture of your organization, you know, recognition is something that you could encourage. And I'm imagining you probably do. How do you how do you. Yeah. How do you do that?
Esther Taylor 00:32:34 Yeah, I think I try and consciously thank my staff on a regular basis with the work that they're doing. Yeah, I'm very intentional about that. and and try and make sure that they know that actually, what they're doing is really good. and that I really appreciate the work they've done. I had a couple of days off last week. some annual leave and, the night before, like the day before, when I finished, everybody had gone home, and I just left a little cream egg and a little note to each person to saying, thank you.
Esther Taylor 00:33:15 I appreciate your hard work and I appreciate you. and just left that for everybody. so. Yeah. I try and do small things like that because I think sometimes those can have the greatest impact.
Sally-Anne 00:33:31 Yes, I would tend to agree with that. And I'm very curious to hear it in your words though. What is it about the small things you think that have the greatest impact?
Esther Taylor 00:33:46 I think it's I think it's the fact that someone's taking the time to acknowledge that they appreciate what you're doing. I think when you know, I mean the work we do is really full on and we can be busy a lot of the time. and so it's easy to get caught up in that busyness. and so just taking a moment out to go actually, do you know what? You're doing a really good job. I appreciate you. I think it's really important.
Sally-Anne 00:34:22 Yeah. It can be such a lift to the day, can't it? And also, what I'm hearing is the sincerity and that sometimes, you know, grand gestures may not be insincere, but, you know, can come over that way, can't they? Just smaller, more authentic, thoughtful.
Esther Taylor 00:34:40 Yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:34:41 Actions. Yeah. It can be so much more powerful. So taking a step back for a moment as to and looking at where you are in your life and your career and how you feel about it all. Yeah. What are you noticing about the sense of direction you have in terms of what you want to achieve?
Esther Taylor 00:35:07 Yeah, I think it's, I think one of the things that I often wrestle with, is that, you know, getting the balance between working, you know, working a high level job, like when you're in leadership, you know, there is a cost to that that is mentally draining. It's physically draining. but, you know, there's also benefits. You're paid more. You. You know, that kind of thing. so getting that balance, and I think getting a balance of working hard and playing hard as well. I think I'm, I'm kind of at that point in my life where I'm going, actually, I don't want to wait till I retire to do the things that I want to do.
Esther Taylor 00:36:00 you hear it so often that somebody retires and then gets ill and can't do the things. You know, I don't want that to be the case. I want to do the things that, that I want to do now. and so just trying to make time for that, making time for family. You know, my goals are going to be 20 and 18 this year. they're becoming a lot more independent. So again, it's about making the most of the time that we have with them. so I think, yeah, that getting that balance. but also I think, you know, I think as women, we we can. I feel I've been slightly penalized by taking time out as a mum. I feel like I've had to play catch up with, like, compared to friends that didn't take that break. They're further ahead in their careers than I am, although I've managed to jump a few steps and catch up quite quickly. I'm now at that point of going actually, now is is a time that I want to develop and grow my career, like, you know, and and thinking about what are what does that look like? I've probably got another I've signed something the other day.
Esther Taylor 00:37:22 I've probably got another 15, 20 years in me to work. So what does that look like? And. Yeah. And how how can I have impact in a positive way. so, yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:37:38 So these are the questions you're asking yourself at this point of your life. And may I ask, you know, again, as a, as a evolving woman, what are you noticing about how the, you know, changes that we all go through are impacting any of that?
Esther Taylor 00:37:56 Yeah. I mean, I said to somebody the other day, of course, you know, you get to this age in your life and you it feels like it should be easier and, you should have that freedom and what have you. And yet, the delightful menopause kicks in and physically, you I, I have not felt in a particularly great place, when it comes to my physical health, you know, the, the tiredness and some of the brain fog and, Yeah, just lack of energy at times, can be really frustrating because I'm at that point where I'm like, right, this is it.
Esther Taylor 00:38:39 I want to launch. I'm going to go off and do these things, and my body is going, no, it's time for you to slow down. I'm like, no, it's not. and it's, you know, my husband and I were talking about it saying, you know, we live in a society where probably years ago, women our age would start slowing down. They wouldn't probably be working either. And actually, they would be able to slow down because their kids were getting older and needing less of their time. And so it would be a gentle, natural progression to slow down. We don't have that in our society now. You know, the expectation is that women will keep working and, and, and I think as for me, as I say, I'm in that place of my children need me less. And I'm at a point where I actually, I'd quite like to see my career develop, but actually it's hard. Physically. It's hard. because I'm not not feeling the best physically that I have done.
Esther Taylor 00:39:46 so yeah, it's can be frustrating at times. especially as someone in leadership as well, because I think people expect you to, you know, power through and keep going and do well.
Sally-Anne 00:40:02 And do you have conversations about that, given that you're working with women for mainly women? Is that something you talk about?
Esther Taylor 00:40:11 Yeah, absolutely. And I think, one of the things I've learned as a leader is that actually it's okay at times to be vulnerable with your staff. and actually admit that you're struggling to, I think that's okay. It's okay to do that. yes. And actually, then sometimes gives permission for other people to go. Well, actually, I hear you. And I'm struggling as well with this. Yeah. so yeah, it's definitely, definitely something, that we talk about. And I would hope that as a leader, I am empathetic and sympathetic to those needs and to the needs of women generally. Like, if I have women who work for me who, young mums say I am very flexible with, you know, their work in time.
Esther Taylor 00:41:01 So if they need to go to a school assembly or whatever, they can come in late, or if the kids are ill and they need to work at home, that's fine. You know, I am, in that respect, pretty flexible. So.
Sally-Anne 00:41:14 Yes, because it's a reality of life, isn't it?
Esther Taylor 00:41:17 Yeah, absolutely.
Sally-Anne 00:41:19 In a way, when you look, you know, step back and look at it, it would be sheer madness not to acknowledge the reality and work with it. Yeah. but quite often what happens is that we crack on pretending it's not there?
Esther Taylor 00:41:31 Yeah, absolutely.
Sally-Anne 00:41:33 And it is frustrating. And I wonder if the frustration comes, you know, from a fear of not being able to accomplish what we know. We really we really want to in life.
Esther Taylor 00:41:48 Yeah, I think so. I think, yeah, absolutely. I think, again, working in the world of cancer that, you know, the it's it's very prevalent. And, you know, I think that's where I don't want to put off doing the things that I want to do, because you don't know what's around the corner.
Esther Taylor 00:42:11 so yeah, I think it's, it's if anything, it's taught me to not put things off.
Sally-Anne 00:42:18 Yes. My goodness. You must be reminded of that on a practically daily basis. Right.
Esther Taylor 00:42:23 Yeah, absolutely.
Sally-Anne 00:42:24 And I suppose a gratitude there. You haven't mentioned this, used this word, but I'm hearing a gratitude for what you have. You know, the gifts you've been given that you want to use to before, right?
Esther Taylor 00:42:36 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think not taking taking every day for granted, every day is a blessing.
Sally-Anne 00:42:43 Absolutely. Well, Esther, I'm sure everyone listening here will join me in saying thanking you, you know, for the work that you're doing and that you did. Thank goodness that you got the help you needed way back to to to reframe the story in your mind that, you know, you weren't you weren't good enough when you absolutely were. And what what a difference that made.
Esther Taylor 00:43:13 Yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:43:13 To the choices you went on to make. Right?
Esther Taylor 00:43:16 Absolutely.
Esther Taylor 00:43:17 Yeah, absolutely. I wouldn't be in this job if I hadn't changed that mindset. I was approached I was actually supposed to be joining the trustee board for this charity. and the the pre previous CEO was resigned because she had another job to go to. and she actually approached me and said actually I so I'd like you to consider being the next CEO.
Sally-Anne 00:43:42 Oh my goodness.
Esther Taylor 00:43:43 And I was like, absolutely. Oh, you.
Sally-Anne 00:43:46 Didn't know it. You didn't hesitate.
Esther Taylor 00:43:48 No I didn't. Yeah. Yeah.
Sally-Anne 00:43:56 Yeah. So looking at where you are now. Yeah. You know, everything you've achieved and, you know, looking into the future as best we can. Yeah. What does Fearless Forward mean to you?
Esther Taylor 00:44:12 Yeah. I was thinking about this, and, I was thinking about what? What is fear? And fear is a response to threat. And I think often we can see the unknown and, Like new jobs or new possibilities as actually a threat rather than seeing them as opportunity. And I think for me, I've learned to see those things as opportunities and, and opportunity to grow, and develop.
Esther Taylor 00:44:46 And so rather than seeing the unknown as a threat, actually seeing it as an opportunity.
Sally-Anne 00:44:56 So that's well, step by step as to wishing you the very best of luck with all of that.
Esther Taylor 00:45:04 Thank you. Thanks, Ali.
Sally-Anne 00:45:06 When Esther sees a gap, she moves towards it quickly, boldly, and she often steps into it before she's fully ready. This can do. Instinct has served her well. She's achieved a lot, and still is. And now she's grappling with the reality of being a woman in mid-life, just as all her experience, skill and wisdom reaches its peak, her body is asking for something different to slow down, rest more. And this can feel frustrating as someone who sees how much there is still to do. Listening to this. Can you relate? I know I can. So perhaps the invitation here is to listen more closely to where in your life and work you're being called to step into the gap, and where strength has become so habitual that you no longer notice the cost.
Sally-Anne 00:46:07 Thank you for listening. Fearless forward is edited and produced by Rob Lawrence. I'll be back with you in two weeks for our next conversation about how leaders have faced their fears. To be sure of catching it, go to Fearless Forward or subscribe to my weekly bulletin at Skillful Leaders.