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A relatable and honest podcast about the highs and lows of being a youth hockey parent. Join us as we share real stories, struggles, and wins from the rink, offering insights and support for parents navigating the world of youth hockey.
This is for the sled dogs in the trenches. Real hockey parents, real stories. The Good and the Gong Show. No filters, no sugarcoating, no politics, just straight hockey talk, and the best guests around the barn. Welcome to the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast.
Intro:Alright, boys. Grind them corners, chirp responsibly, and bring that savage fire.
Jamie:Alright, everybody. Welcome to episode 90 of the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast powered by Pacific Rink, the unfiltered podcast for hockey parents. No politics, no sugarcoating, just real talk for hockey parents in the trenches. Buddy, episode 90? 90.
Scott:You know, that number that number, I feel like we've been doing it for way longer than 90. But then when you look at when you look at the calendar, it's it's... We haven't been doing it that long.
Jamie:No. Like a year and a... No. Like a year and a half ish, give or take?
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's it's it's awesome, man.
Scott:Awesome. Yeah.
Jamie:Nine is a
Scott:great number. Hundreds around the corner.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah. And and what's crazy is that is that episode, for some strange reason, on, like, the forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, like, we always have Bob Mancini on a zero.
Scott:Oh, how
Jamie:about that? We had him on for forty. We had him on for fifty, and now we have him on again for ninety. Bob Mancini from USA Hockey, the one and only.
Scott:Dude. Yeah. Know. That's... Well, obviously, good good intro, I guess.
Scott:Well, not so good, but it's like, whatever. Intro to today's episode, which was which was little bit
Jamie:of a taste. A taste.
Scott:There we go. That... Those are the words that I was looking for. You know, I couldn't do this without you, buddy.
Jamie:Hey, listen.
Scott:You're the ying to my yang.
Jamie:Two heads are better than one.
Scott:Right? You're the ying to my wang.
Jamie:That doesn't make any sense.
Scott:No. No. Not not much. Feeling a little goofy. No.
Jamie:It's okay. Nothing wrong with goofy. So, dude, what's happening? Yeah.
Scott:We had a weekend. I tell you. You did happen. We had a weekend over here. Youth hockey never never ceases to to To frustrate.
Scott:Frustrate, excite all of the above. But before we dip into that, why don't we just shout out our partners
Jamie:Yeah. On our website. Yep. So we have Howie's Hockey. Use our discount code crazy 10 for 10% off all your Howie's hockey gear.
Jamie:So Scott loves the scented candle, scented wax. I love the yellow handled scissors, but they have such awesome gear. Their wax laces we use all the time. Their tape is all over our house and has been since Dominic's been five. You know?
Jamie:Yeah. Nancy used Nancy used it to close just about everything.
Scott:You wallpapered your walls with one inch tape.
Jamie:Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure. So one of one of our... So I'm gonna go on a little bit of a tangent right now. One of our players
Scott:That's a surprise.
Jamie:Not this... Fuck off. Listen. I'm good at what I'm good at, I'm good at tangents. So so so one of
Scott:And that makes me confused with, like, calculus.
Jamie:So so what? What what?
Scott:Cosine, sine, and tangent.
Jamie:Right? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah. Exactly. Why you're going back to, high school. Jesus Christ.
Jamie:Okay. Got it.
Scott:Or or just going to math. That's
Jamie:all. No. No. Well, yes. The high school math.
Jamie:So so... Yeah. So one of our players got, like, smacked in the face the other day, and his cage was probably not tight enough. He probably had too much cage hang. And the the top of the helmet came down and, cut him on the brim his nose.
Jamie:Oh, shit. Opened him up pretty good. And it's funny, one of our coaches
Scott:Laughing, but I feel bad.
Jamie:Yeah. I'm not. Mean, one of our coaches went over to him and put a piece of hockey tape right in between his eyes. Right on his nose, right in the bridge of his, you know,
Scott:How long did that last for?
Bob:With his
Jamie:sweat? It actually stayed. He came out of the locker room, and it was still on from what I saw. It was our last game, not this past Sunday, but two Sundays ago. And then his dad is a...
Jamie:Is an ENT, so his dad used some, like, you know, medical Dermabond to, like, glue him shut when they got home.
Scott:Oh, got you. Yeah. You know, that's that's interesting. It just made me think like, maybe just putting tape across the brow could mean an effort indicator, low tech effort indicator. Because I would think if you were sweating, it would come off.
Jamie:I mean, was pretty sweaty when he came off the ice.
Scott:Oh, okay.
Jamie:You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he did have a piece of tape right in between his eyes.
Scott:And it was Hockey tape.
Jamie:It was how... I'm pretty sure it was Hockey tape. I mean, would it be any other kind of tape?
Scott:That's my point.
Jamie:Even if even if it was some other kind of tape, it should have been Hockey tape if it wasn't. You know?
Scott:That's what I'm saying.
Jamie:So... But no. So so... Yeah. So my point is you can use Howie's Hockey tape for everything, even posing gashes if need be for a short period of time maybe.
Jamie:So so anyway You'll see it. So... Yeah. So so so go and check out Howie's Hockey. Use our code crazy 10 for 10% off all your Howie's Hockey gear.
Jamie:Good.
Scott:So, you're gonna see I know, no, I have a... Yeah, well, anyway, I was... After my Mensley game Sunday night, I went to the local convenience store to pick up a protein shake and a bar, my my typical post post hockey game snack. Anyway, I walked in there and I'm like, making a turn around the corner and there's a dude standing there, like, ordering a sandwich and he looks over at me and he's, like, nice sweatshirt. Mind you, it's, like, 11:10 at night And like, rando is like telling me nice sweatshirt.
Scott:I'm like, time to get out of here. But turns out... What was
Jamie:your sweatshirt? What sweatshirt was?
Scott:Well, I was wearing my all black, my black house Hockey sweatshirt. Yeah. And he said, nice sweatshirt. It ended up being that this guy is actually... He plays men's league.
Scott:I actually play against him, and it was just like, that's why he, you know, said that. But at at first, I was like, okay. Time to leave. But, no. Howie's hockey gets attention.
Scott:Yes.
Jamie:How... And that that sweatshirt is pretty cool, by the way. The Blackout sweatshirt pretty cool for kids and adults.
Scott:Yep. Or or two days this weekend at the Hockey So, in any event, we'll get to that soon. Nice. But continuing on, so let's talk a little bit of hockeytraining.com. Coach Kevin, again, can't can't say enough about the...
Scott:His platform. I'm continuing to use the men's league domination programming. Any parents out there that are looking to get their kids some additional off ice training, definitely go check out hockeytraining.com from live stick handling sessions to a massive library of videos. There's replays. There's workout programs.
Scott:What's even great about the workout programs that they have it for, you know, older athletes, younger athletes, but they also break it up into, like, you know, weight room type workouts or body weight workouts. So even if you can't get to the gym necessarily, you can, you know, rep out some body weight workouts using his platform. So definitely check it out. He's got a bunch of Hockey IQ videos up there to go through in the film room. What else he got going on?
Scott:Oh, he just had added a a workout tracker, you know, which is like gamify, like, know, the number of workouts you level up, you get to create an avatar. So, again, if you if you don't know it, you're not familiar with it, check it out. Check out Hockey Training HQ. It's a spot, you know, to go for, you know, off ice, stick handling, shooting, speed, strength, agility workouts that are gonna translate to your honest performance. So check out hockeytraining.com.
Jamie:Nice. And then go check out Titan Battle Gear. So Scott and I trust our kids in Titan Battle Gear. So you can go to titanbattlegear.com or just go to the link in our show notes, which is titanbattlegear.com backslash Crazy Hockey Dads. Use the discount code Crazy Dads 10 for 10% off all your Titan battle gear.
Jamie:Scott, just the other day, I was staying in the parking lot for our game on Saturday, and when the dads came up to me and he's like, Jamie, he's like he's like a friend of mine. He's like, he kinda fell on the ice the other day. And right above where the Titan battle gear stops and the chin guard for the helmet is, he got cut right in between.
Scott:No shit.
Jamie:Under the chin guard, right up and over the Titan battle gear.
Scott:This is an adult or a child?
Jamie:This is a child. Is like a kid that's like, you know, 13... Ten ten ten to 14, something like that. 10, 12, 13, 14. But she got cut right under the chin, you know.
Jamie:So so go go get your Titan battle gear, guys. There's more more skate cuts now than ever with more kids playing and better better edge holding steel and and everybody's got it in a at home sharpener, so the steel is as sharp as it ever has been. Go get yourself some Titan battle gear. It's the best stuff on the market. It it will by far, you know, protect you from any skate cut.
Jamie:God forbid your your child comes in contact with one. So go get yourself some Titan battle gear. They have some great styles. It's... The kids love it.
Jamie:It looks awesome, but it protects them. That's the most important thing. So go again. Go to titanbattlegear.com. Use the discount code crazy dads 10 for 10% off all your Titan Battle Gear.
Scott:Well done, sir. And for any coaches and managers who wanna get more out of their game film, definitely need to check out athletic performance insight. The platform combines tag videos with team game, individual player analytics. It gives coaches, like, useful information that they can, you know, bring directly to the video review and player development. You know, use the contact form at @athleticperformanceinsight.com to connect with Eric.
Scott:He can demo the platform and tag a game so you can see how it works. You know, mention Crazy Hockey Dads for 10% off for a season subscription, and, you know, I just can't, you know, say enough how important Hockey IQ is, you know, and that's a key tool in in in developing that, you know, so for any coaches, managers out there that haven't, you know, done video review with your teams yet or looking to up your game, check out athletic performance insight.
Jamie:And I gotta tell you, you know, Eric goes above and beyond. I mean, he's he's great. Not only did he design the software and he's the owner of the company, but, you know, he goes above and beyond. Scott, I didn't even tell you this. So the other day, our kids had a game at Black Bear on a Black Bear rink.
Jamie:And for whatever reason, the the the camera system was not was not functioning. Yep. So, like, parents only got to see, like, a little bit of stuff. He actually called Black Bear and actually tried to, like, find, like, video. And I'm pretty sure Really?
Jamie:Yeah. I'm pretty sure he got, like, you know, some more video than was actually broadcast during the game. But my point is that he goes above and beyond. So Yeah.
Scott:He does.
Jamie:So if you if you guys are looking for video analytics, go check out Eric, you know, at API. Like I said, he goes above and beyond. He's not just your average. You know, you actually get to talk to the owner, you know, of the company and the one who who created the platform, who's a hockey dad himself.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. He's always made himself available whenever I needed to chat. Yeah. He's super open to feedback.
Scott:Great guy. Knows the game. And, couldn't couldn't say enough about him. So, again, athletic performance insight. Check it out, y'all.
Jamie:Yeah. He's awesome. And and I just want... I I also just wanna talk about... I know we don't kinda do reads for them because they're they're all over our socials and our and our logos, you But if you guys are looking for a hockey bag, mean, there's no other place to look than Pacific Rink.
Jamie:I mean, they have the best hockey bag on the market. The holiday seasons are coming up soon, guys. Sell out very quickly. I guarantee you, you will not be able to get a black hockey bag you know, around Christmas time. If you guys are looking...
Jamie:Your kids are looking for... Because they sell out so fast that the black bag. So if you guys are looking for a pond pack, you know, to get... To take your kids, you know, skating on a local pond when it gets cold, because that time's coming, you know, ODR time is coming. Right?
Jamie:It may even be here in some places in this country. It's not here where I am or where you are, Scott, but who knows what the temperature item is at out in Minnesota right now, right? And if not, it's getting there shortly. But, so go check out Pacific Rink. Again, they have awesome bags, the Pond Pack, The player bag's insane.
Jamie:It's by far the best bag on the market. You will not be disappointed, and you'll have it for years.
Scott:Yeah. Yep. Yeah. A 100%. Yeah.
Scott:Awesome, dude.
Jamie:What else is new, buddy? So let's talk about your hockey weekend because you had a really fun, enjoyable hockey weekend.
Scott:I mean, it
Jamie:would Probably be the best hockey weekend you've ever had.
Scott:I I I will say that it was it was... There was no shortage of of emotional capital spent this weekend. So just to kick things off, you know, we went up there with the family. It was Otto's birthday weekend, so we went up there together, which we don't always do. Like, my daughter isn't, like, super thrilled about going to these tournaments, especially if there aren't, like, siblings there that she, you know, can hang out with.
Scott:And unfortunately, she really didn't have anyone this weekend. So but in any event, we were all up there and, you know, family stuff, it just, you know, you're in one room. Plenty of plenty of things just to, like, nitpick and whatever about. So Well,
Jamie:that's your first mistake right there, buddy.
Scott:Well, no, I Listen. You know what?
Jamie:My my buddy normally does adjoining rooms and shoves his kid in one room, or if you can or if you can get a suite, Nancy and I do suites. I do not like being in the same room with my children.
Scott:Yeah. Well
Jamie:If I can help it.
Scott:No. No. I... Listen. I I I totally understand.
Scott:But look. That that... That's look, that's that's part of, like, family dynamic stuff, and I'm not complaining about it. Sure. Love love being with the We kiddos all spend love time with them, but we all know how things can get complicated.
Scott:Right?
Jamie:Oh, yes.
Scott:But... So that so that was, like, you know, so that was part of the equation. However, so we get to the hotel, and as we're pulling up, there's a Providence... Providence College? Why am I messing...
Jamie:I think it's Providence
Scott:Providence College. Yeah. Don't know Friars. Saying.
Jamie:The Friars. I know what you're about.
Scott:Yeah. So, anyway, there's a bus in the driveway as we pull up to the hotel, and and I was like, can you imagine if those are hockey players? And then we see some kids getting off the bus and like, know, just kinda sizing them up. And, you know, what... There were nothing...
Scott:There was no telltale hockey anything as, you know, we saw some of the kids walking in. Sure enough, it's a hockey team. And so that was pretty cool. The kids were there, and we were... You know, I don't know how many of them really talked to them, but they were like just a
Jamie:bit... Probably college, not not university. Common. Yeah.
Scott:You're right. College. So
Jamie:so they were staying in your hotel?
Scott:So they were staying in the same hotel. It was... You know, that was cool, whatever.
Bob:Nice.
Scott:And then... You guys were up
Jamie:in the Boston area?
Scott:Yeah. Boston area. We're up in Tewkesbury. Okay. So on the Northern End Of Mass.
Scott:Right. So so, yeah, we get to the hotel room and kinda settling in, and first thing that was was... Went a little sideways was I was like trying to figure out the the curtains, you know, to like close lower and whatever, and I kinda peek behind one and there's a massive bug on the wall. Like, I don't even know what kind of bug this was, but it was nothing I wanted in my room. Gross.
Scott:So, immediately, I murder it, and it splatters all over the wall, and it's stuck. I was like
Jamie:take a picture of it and throw it into Chatty Pitty and be like, what is this? No.
Scott:I didn't even... No. I I could I You should
Jamie:tell me it's not a cockroach?
Scott:Well, no matter what it was, I only saw one and it wasn't gonna live any longer. So, I killed it, but I decided to leave it on the wall so that, you know, when, you know, the housekeeping came, that they could take care of it and they could see that they've got bugs in their hotel and I'm not just like, you know, making So, stuff in any event, then my daughter takes a shower and the water, like, basin of the shower starts filling up and filling up, and she's got water surrounding her feet. I was like, great. Of course, the drain is clogged. But, like, the drain is not...
Scott:You can't see the drain because it's like kind of like this flush flush bathroom, like, towel... Shower floor, there's like an aluminum, like, piece that's like covering the entire, like Drain. Drain. Yeah. You have to lift it up.
Scott:Lift it up. Clogged clogged with loads of hair and whatever other, like, gunk. Right? Gross. Gunk.
Scott:So, then I take a picture of that, and I go down to the front desk and I say, hey, listen, I... You need to see this because this is a problem. I didn't tell my wife about the bug, but everyone knew about the...
Jamie:Probably a smart move.
Scott:Yeah. The woman writes it down in a notepad, and I was like, notepad, Okay. So then I just, like, I let it go, and I was like, you know, hopefully... I said I'd like to, you know, I expect to hear from somebody. Never heard from anybody.
Jamie:Course, you didn't.
Scott:Fast forward to the end of that, I ended up complaining again before I left, sent an email. They ended up taking a night off of the hotel room for our stay and for that. But even even after having housecleaning... Keeping come, there was still some bladdered bug on the wall. Oh, you actually
Jamie:call... You actually had them to come up and remove it?
Scott:Yeah. We were there for three nights. Yeah. So Saturday night, I asked them to come. Or Saturday, they came and there was still bug on the wall.
Scott:So that was pretty gross.
Bob:That's pretty gross.
Scott:So that was that part. So that was like the hotel stuff. Oh, and then, like, of course, the kids were all running around, multiple hockey teams, you know, like, you know, I was told that the Saints team is in trouble, blah blah blah blah blah. So not that I don't know that anything came of it, but it was like, you know, our kids were running a bit wild
Jamie:and Yeah.
Bob:They they always
Jamie:get get threatened to get thrown out of the hotel.
Scott:A 100%. So that was something
Jamie:It's never actually happened. I've never I've never actually... We... Our teams have never been thrown out of a hotel.
Scott:And they didn't get thrown out, but, you know, just, you know, alright, boys. Time to time to calm down.
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:Sure. But... So then, you know, we ended up having... And this is in no particular order. Otto, know, we had Otto's birthday.
Scott:Went... We're out to dinner. We had... There was a band at the restaurant we were at. They sang happy birthday, had, like, a massive cake situation.
Scott:Apparently, some kids, like, were firing Nerf darts and hit, like, a little kid in the head. And the the mom of the little kid was, like, reprimanding our kids, and they... I guess, the lady said, you know, I'm gonna talk to your parents, and our group told the... That mom that they were orphans and they didn't have parents. So I thought that was funny.
Scott:But she did threaten to call the cops. But, know, whatever. The the kids were being kids. There was no... The the little kid was fine.
Scott:It wasn't like anything that was that bad. But, you know, there was a there was a situation. Again, kids being kids, and and everyone was fine. So
Jamie:Sounds pretty typical.
Scott:Yeah. Sounds pretty typical.
Jamie:Sounds pretty typical of a hockey hotel.
Scott:Well, this was at dinner. But then... So here here, this was kind of like the the one
Jamie:Again, sounds pretty typical of a hockey weekend.
Scott:Yeah. A a 100%. And then and then... Okay. So apparently, and this was news to me until this, you know, until this weekend, there was a parent of one of our players who, like, is regularly very hot under the collar.
Scott:And it sounds like he's hot under the collar about a variety of things, including, you know, the the team, including his son, and it's like, you know, apparently, he's... Like, he was an issue. So this parent, after one of our games, and keep in mind that, like, the... Our kids did not have a, you know, a winning weekend. We lost all of our games, you know, and they...
Scott:We got we got... We had some pretty significant beatdowns. But this parent walked into the locker room, and there was tape on the floor, and he told the kids that if they didn't pick up the tape, that he was gonna kick them in the ass or kick their ass. One of those two versions. And I was like, what?
Scott:And I was like, yeah. They're like... And I said, like, he was joking. Right? Like, he he said this, like, in a joking voice, and he's like, nope.
Scott:And I'm like, are you sure? He's like, dad, I'm telling you, it was not a talking voice that he, you know, he said that to us in. And I was I was like, uh-huh. Okay. So, we have a parent that's like threatening our kids.
Scott:They don't pick up tape. I was like, not okay. Zero okay. And so I... So ultimately, the the the kid had come into the locker room earlier in the day and announced to the team that it was his...
Scott:Probably his last game. So Right. Needless to say, this this parent ultimately, by the end of the day, had pulled his kid. They left the tournament early, and on their way out, just happened to cross paths with him. So, you know, so I was like I was like, dude, I hear you.
Scott:You know, like, I I basically confronted him and said, dude, like, you're like, what are you doing? Yeah. You're seriously, what are you doing? Not okay. You're not allowed to threaten kids.
Scott:You're certainly not gonna threaten my kid. And, you know, if this happens again, you got something else coming, buddy. And he's like, don't worry, you're never gonna have to see me again. He apologized to Otto, and Right. He took his kid
Jamie:kid off the team.
Scott:And they left.
Jamie:That's crazy that he left mid tournament.
Scott:Mid tournament. Yep. Kids went... So apparently, last season, this kid was playing for a team, got, you know, pulled from that team also, joined another team, left that team, came to our team this year, and and and in some version of the story, there was talks that the, you know, the kid was saying that... Or the dad was saying that he's not playing hockey anymore.
Scott:I was like, wow. Talk about how a parent can ruin for their kids. Like, Jesus.
Jamie:A 100%. I'm I'm also not so sure that the coach did his due diligence in bringing this kid over because generally, I mean, if he left the team mid year last year, I mean, that's not a good sign, by the way.
Scott:That's that's an interesting point. Yeah. I would I would I no. Agree that's not a and good
Jamie:that stuff comes out pretty quick if you if you look for it. You know? That stuff's really easy to find. All you gotta do is make a couple phone calls. That stuff is pretty apparent.
Scott:Yeah. Well You know? So so the the the the the long story short, addition by subtraction, I think, is the the the... Like, the way we're looking at this one.
Jamie:At least in at least in the parent category. Right?
Scott:Yeah. I mean, the... Yeah. And... Well, I don't know.
Scott:I I mean, like, I don't know. Otto seemed to like the kid. I didn't hear the kid.
Jamie:It's a shame about the kid. Yeah.
Scott:You know? You feel bad for the kid
Jamie:100%.
Scott:The most. And just that I've never seen a parent so, like... I I don't know. It just there was definitely something wrong there. I don't know.
Jamie:Very I think there's a... Yeah. I'm sure there is. I mean, clearly, he... Yes.
Jamie:A 100% there's something wrong there. You know? And that's a shame because we talk about, you know, parents rooting for their kids all the time, and that's a very good example of parents rooting for their kids. Just let the kid play. I know it's hard.
Jamie:I know it's frustrating when you when you lose. Trust me. I get it. It sucks. You know?
Jamie:But at the end of the day, it's a peewee hockey game. Right? You guys are sending your peewees. Right? Like, it's a peewee hockey game.
Jamie:Like, nobody's gonna remember it. I guarantee you in, like, in... I guarantee you when you... The next day, you won't give a shit. You know?
Scott:Right.
Jamie:And in the grand scheme of things, it's all about the development of the kids. It's not about listen. It's great to win, and you try to win, and you teach the kids that you do whatever you need to do to try to win within the rules, right, of the game. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, it it doesn't doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't fucking matter at all.
Jamie:Yeah. Like, nobody's gonna go back and be like, oh, what was your score when you went up to the Eastern exposure? What was your record when you went up to Eastern exposure in Boston?
Scott:No one's gonna give a shit.
Jamie:Nobody's gonna give a shit. Nobody's looking. Nobody's paying attention. Nobody fucking cares.
Scott:No. But Nobody fucking cares. But this this is what I will say, though. I do think that, like like, yeah, when you look back on it, like, years down the road, no one gives a shit. But, like, let's just say, like, at the end of this season, like, you know, for a a player that's having, like, a great season, like, the...
Scott:I'm sure that there are parents that are like, look. This is what my kid did at this tournament, you know, potentially to, like, you know, you know, make an impression on another team, another coach. So, yeah, I agree. At the end of the day, doesn't mean much, but, like, it's... You know, I will say that, you know, the same thing that you were talking about with the...
Scott:It doesn't matter about, you know, winning or losing, and I agree with that. I will say this. We have not done a lot of winning this season, and it takes it takes a toll in... Like, mostly on the kids. Right?
Scott:Like, the kids get upset, and then, like, you know, it's it's harder for them to stay positive. It's hard for parents to stay positive sometimes, And I don't wanna say winning matters. It does... You know, like, it's just about, like, developing, and are the kids better today than they were yesterday? If the answer is yes, then okay.
Scott:But I I... It's it's hard in the moment to completely put aside the fact that, like, you know, week in and week out, you're not coming away with a w, you know, and it's just... It does get frustrating. And there's, like, this negative energy that that kinda comes with it that unfortunately can creep into parent player conversations, parent to parent conversations, parent to coach conversations. So I I don't wanna discount, you know, having, you know, a losing season, how that can affect what goes on.
Scott:But at the end of the day, I agree. Like, the only thing that people should really be focused on is, is my kid better today than he was yesterday? If the answer is yes, then, you know, that's a that's a good thing. That's the... That's what you need to focus on.
Scott:Right?
Jamie:Yes. You know, listen. At at the end of the day, you know, I think I think us as parents are trying to teach life skills. Right? Totally.
Jamie:And and unfortunately, you know, you have to learn how to lose as well. Right? And you have to learn, you know, that when you lose, you have to obviously try to figure out why you lost, you know, and figure out how you can make yourself better. Or or maybe you can be a... You could be a better teammate and not be negative on the bench.
Jamie:And as parents, you need to teach your kids those things because those things will serve them well in the long run. Right? Know, need to try to take... There's there's a silver lining somewhere. You just gotta find it.
Scott:Okay? It might not be and it might not be super apparent now. Look. I can say for sure that, like, one of the things that I took away from this weekend and was like, okay, so our kids are... Weren't putting a lot of pucks in the net.
Scott:Period. End of story. And so we were ended up in our zone a lot, and there was a lot of, you know, defensive zone work. And, you know, what did the team start cheering about? They started cheering about block shots At, like, probably by the second by the second game, every time a kid blocked a shot, you heard the coach, you know, you know, cheering on, you know, wait it...
Scott:He didn't, you know you know, whoever. Great job. And all the kids are slamming their sticks, the coaches are making sure that the kids are encouraging There are kids on blocking shots. Otto Otto even said, he's like, I'm gonna get a Pee Wee a Pee Wee Gordie Howe hat trick. I'm gonna block a shot.
Scott:I'm going to get a goal and an assist. But like the fact that he was like amped up to to block a shot. He even told me, he's like, dad, he's like, I put a dollar coin in my cup for good luck. And I was like, really? I was like...
Scott:He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm gonna block a shot today. I was like, but now I I don't know that he did, but the bottom
Jamie:line is thinking about it, and that gets closer to blocking a shot than not.
Scott:But the the kids rallied behind that, and that's what... That was gonna be the thing that they got pumped up about. And I thought that was great. You know? And then, does defensive zone cover it?
Scott:Like, know, you spend a lot of time in the defensive zone, and you hear the coach giving, like, solid instruction on, like, positioning from the bench, and the kids are And they're, you know, they're getting better oriented in the defensive zone. You know? And I even saw a kid, it was great, and he didn't... He he... Defenseman picked up the puck in the corner, loose puck, you know, he shoulder checked, he saw they didn't have anything, and he just held it along the boards.
Scott:As opposed to just throwing the puck away, he just pinned it up against the boards and waited for some support, you know, or just kinda battled it out as opposed to, you know, throwing it up the boards and giving it to to, you know, the other team. So, you saw these little things, and I was like, wow. I was like, okay. Like, this is this is development. Right?
Scott:These are things that these kids probably wouldn't have done if they weren't spending so much time on their zone, but now they're working on some of the details, and I thought it was it was great to see.
Jamie:Yes. Agreed. No. I I I totally agree with that. There has to be a silver lining somewhere.
Jamie:Right? Totally. And in the grand scheme of things, the kids aren't gonna give a shit. At the end of the day, they're not gonna care if they win or lose. Like, let's say you
Bob:guys lose every game for the rest
Jamie:of it. They'll they'll care in the moment, but they don't care long term. Long term, they don't give a shit.
Scott:No. That's my feeling. I I... Yeah. I I I don't know.
Scott:Like, time is like the greatest healer. Right? And so, like, in any event, ultimately, I think, you know, there there's there's are... There's learnings, and that's important. Even if you're not winning, there's learning as as whatever you wanna call that saying.
Scott:It's true. As long as you have the right, you know, like, kinda growth mindset, you know. So in any event, that was my weekend, dude. I'll I'll stop there. How about how about your weekend?
Scott:How how did that go? Hockeying?
Jamie:So our weekend was was good. We won Saturday in a close game, two one to, like, a rival team, so that worked out well. And then we lost. We had two games on Sunday out on Long Island. Fucking Long Island, dude.
Scott:Your favorite. Between that and the drive to Pittsburgh, I know where to send you and You know, to be totally honest
Jamie:with you, I would rather drive out to fucking Pittsburgh than play on Long Island. I I absolutely... Although I must say that? Northwell Health, the rink is lovely.
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:Yeah. Where the Islanders practice, beautiful.
Scott:That's what I thought it was.
Jamie:Spectacular facility. Yeah. Like, awesome. I mean, the l I... The LIU sharks play there.
Jamie:What a cool facility. Right? Too bad. It was kind of ruined by what I would consider the worst refing job I've ever been a part of in my entire career as a youth hockey parent. That's Yeah.
Jamie:And and I gotta tell you, Saturday nothing. Saturday was not great either. So, like, let me start with Saturday. So this this is the problem I have with with with refs. And listen.
Jamie:And and we we... We're obviously... Bob Mancini is on with us today, and and we touched on refs. I should have asked him about this. I don't know why I didn't.
Jamie:We had so much to go over, and I should have I should have got into this, but I didn't. We're gonna have to have him on again, which is... You know? He's so good to us, so maybe we should have him on again. But anyway, so so Saturday, we had one ref for a for a second year banter.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Okay? Oof. Really hard to see everything with one referee.
Scott:No doubt.
Jamie:And this referee... And and I say it all the time, Scott. Like, and I'm okay with one ref as long as you can police the game. Right? These were two teams that do not like each other.
Jamie:Okay? It's a rivalry. The kids know each other. They... They're all from very similar areas.
Jamie:They don't like each other, and and they have some kids on their team that get super chippy.
Scott:Okay.
Jamie:K? And listen, and we have some kids on our team that can get super chippy. So, you know, like, some dudes being... One of our kids are being punched in the back of the head, cross sectioned the back of the head, and, like, the referee just looks at it and skates over. He's like, alright.
Jamie:Break it up, guys. Like, you can't be, like, pounding a kid in the back of the head and and it not get called. Whole building the whole building's soft, Scott. The whole building. Like, take both of them.
Jamie:I don't care. You don't think... Take both of them, and make an example, and talk to the benches, and be like, hey, coaches, like, this... We need to, like, talk to you players, like, this game needs to be like, you know, right? So that that was...
Jamie:And I have to tell you, if I had to pick a worse roughing job, I would have taken that guy Saturday solo over the guys... Over the group that was roughing Sunday any day of the week. Oh, and by the way, I need to shout out I need to shout out Jessica from the saints Oh. Our organization. Jessica, actually, she she happened to walk into the rink and start talking to us parents.
Jamie:Jessica works, you know, at Sport O. So, Jessica, thank you so much for doing what you did. Jessica walked in. She saw there was one ref. We talked to her.
Jamie:She went over to the other sheet of ice and waited till their game to... For their game to finish. As she said, she talked to the ref. She's like, listen. Can one of you guys jump on the on the other sheet of ice?
Jamie:Like, they have... You know, it's a little bit of a chippy game, and they only have one ref. So so thank you to Jessica at Sporting. Thank so much for for for jumping in there. We really appreciate that.
Jamie:You have no idea, but we appreciate that. So so Saturday was Saturday. Right? The guy just wasn't calling much, and he... I think he's a little he's a little, like, nonchalant from what I understand.
Jamie:Right? Sunday. Scott,
Bob:I
Jamie:I I I don't even know what to say. Like, I I very rarely blame referees because they have a very hard job. I get it. And like Bob Mancini has told us, you know, you know, it's really hard to make a call when the kids are going full speed and there's traffic in front of them. I get it.
Jamie:I do. I 100% get it. Okay? But I think there's a fine line between that and what I witnessed on Sunday.
Scott:Okay? Okay.
Jamie:So we're up at Northwell. Again, beautiful facility. I'm playing the Pal Islanders. And, Scott, we had... We were up two nothing.
Jamie:K? We had nine penalties called against us. Nine penalties. We had two five on threes. Okay?
Jamie:We had two five on three, nine penalties called before they even made it. And they made two calls for us in, like, in, like, the middle of the third period, probably just because the parents were going bananas. Right? I mean, to talk about talk about... You're obviously frustrated with that with that with that that that child's father who who said something to the locker room.
Jamie:I mean, so I get the level of frustration. When you're watching a game that you guys are dominating... And, Scott, it wasn't even a close game. Like, we were dominating this team two nothing. The the ice was so tilted.
Jamie:It wasn't even funny. Right? And and literally, they started calling penalties, nine straight penalties against us. Like I said, two five on threes. When you're playing when you're playing, you know, down a man...
Jamie:And and to be honest with you, we were really playing seven on five the whole game because those referees were not. I like... It was so blatantly obvious that it was like hometown refing. Like, I I I don't even know what... And again, I I I never say boo about the referees.
Jamie:I don't. Yeah. Because I know it's hard. I get it. But, Scott, this was so blatantly obvious to everybody.
Jamie:You could have a purse... A Martian could come down from fucking outer space. Okay? From outer space somewhere, and he would come down, and he would put him in the fucking bleachers, and he would watch a game, and he'd be like, this doesn't look right to me. He can know nothing about fucking ice hockey, and he'd be like, this looks a little lopsided to me.
Jamie:Right. You know? So again, we talk about keeping the kids safe by, you know, like, listen, in youth hockey, you could probably call something every two minutes. Right? Because shit happens every two minutes, but when you're so blatantly one-sided, it was a real shame.
Jamie:It a real shame. Like, I want to actually
Scott:Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Sorry to cut you off, but my question is, was were the penalties called on on you guys reasonable and there was a lack of, like, calls on their end, or were they
Jamie:just Scott, they were all,
Scott:like very bad calls.
Jamie:They were all And
Scott:I'm also not calling anything on them.
Jamie:They were all, like, roughing and tripping. But then when it happened to our kids, the arm doesn't go up.
Scott:Like, it was But they were... You would... Would you would you agree that most of those were, in fact, penalties that they called or no? Not trying to defend them. I'm just curious about like, you know, like, it's...
Scott:You know what I'm
Jamie:So if you're gonna let some go for one side, you gotta let some go for the other side.
Scott:A 100%.
Jamie:Right? Like, the the game the game was not... And I have to tell you, we're we're not like an overly penalized team. Right? You know?
Jamie:So, you know, it was so... It was just one-sided. You could see that, you know, when we were doing something, it was getting called, but when they were doing the exact same thing, it wasn't getting called. Right. You know?
Jamie:You could see it. It it it was... Again, there... You don't have you don't have nine penalties called to zero starting the third period. Like, that doesn't happen.
Jamie:No. No. You know? No. So our parents were going absolutely bananas.
Jamie:Right? Because, again, because you're watching a a clearly one -sided hockey game, you know, ref wise, you know, which was... And it wasn't like our kids were so, like, you know, egregious in their penalties and, you know, and the other team was playing such a clean game, you know? And again, we were... We're the much better hockey team, and and and they all know it.
Jamie:The parent... Their parents know it. Their coaches know it. You know, we're a much better hockey team than they are, but we were playing seven on five the whole game, which was really, really, really unfortunate and super frustrating as a parent. And the kids were...
Jamie:And then the kids were pissed off. The kids were like, woah.
Scott:Of course they are.
Jamie:The kids are like, what are we supposed to do? And you saw, like, our kids stopped hitting, you know, like, like, after, like, you know, like, after, like, halfway through the second period, because they're like, how do we hit? Like, we we touch somebody. We're gonna end a penalty. You know?
Jamie:So it was
Scott:a shame. That's tough.
Jamie:It was a real shame. So we had a really rough weekend referee wise, and I'm sure all of you people listening know what that feels like. I'm sure you've all experienced it. And again, Scott, I don't complain about refs. I don't say boo.
Jamie:Even if it's like a bad referee job, I don't say a thing. This was so blatant and so egregious that I... I've never seen anything like it in my life. Wow. And we wind up losing four two.
Scott:That sucks. Yeah. That's really frustrating. Then you have to drive that along island.
Jamie:No. No. Then we had to drive to to the Free Port Oh,
Scott:that was the first Yeah.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then we had another game.
Jamie:Yeah. We had another game, you know, you know, like thirty minutes away.
Scott:How'd that That
Jamie:was fucking Long Island game. That was at the Bubble. It's like the Freeport Rec Center or
Scott:something like that from
Bob:Santa Ray.
Scott:Been there,
Jamie:done Yeah. We've been there a couple times. I think we have to go there one more time, unfortunately. Oh. Yeah.
Jamie:Yeah. We won, like, I don't know, six two in that that last game. So it ended on it ended on a good news late. I think we got out of there, like, 08:00 ish.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:You know? So we didn't have much traffic on the way home, which was great. But other than that, hate Long Island. Hate it. Hate everything about it.
Jamie:And your refs suck, by the way.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, listen. I I, know, I think I think in a situation like that, just...
Scott:And I think you started saying it before I cut you off, but the... You know, I think it's reasonable just to take, you know, reasonable measures that are appropriate, you know, in terms of, like, if you really... You know, if if anyone out there has, like, a bad refereeing situation, like... And and you and you wanna make it known, you know, obviously, you can't change the outcome of the game, but, like, if there are refs that are out there doing a really bad job and you think it's reasonable to say something, you know, you you know, you should you should follow through follow through on that. I don't know what the right recourse is.
Scott:We should probably look into it and see.
Jamie:I'm pretty I'm pretty sure our coach got their names and was going to do something about it.
Scott:Yeah. But... Yeah. But I I think, you know, it's also easy not to follow through on something like that because Yes. You know, whatever.
Scott:But, you know, I don't know. I think I think it's I think it's... Look. If we're gonna complain if we're gonna complain about the refereeing, but then at the same time not do anything that's within our power, then that's also like shame on us.
Jamie:Listen. Listen. There... Listen. There's there's a shortage of refereeing.
Jamie:Right? Their job is not easy. They don't get paid a lot of money. Like, I don't want anybody to lose their job, but, dude, just get better. Like...
Jamie:Or or stop being one-sided. You know what I'm saying? Like, this guy's this guy's probably not a bad referee. He was just super one-sided. You know?
Jamie:Okay.
Scott:But, like, let that... Let... All I'm saying is, like, let that be known. Right? Because if nothing else is feedback, it's feedback that, listen, maybe it's just gonna fall in deaf ears.
Scott:But I I don't know. I I think it's I think it's a reasonable thing to do if it's something that's so egregious. Like, I'm not saying do it every time you get, like, a bad call, but this sounds like, like you said, the worst thing you've ever seen in your entire hockey parent career. Like, that's probably something that's worth, like, escalating or, you know, asking the team to escalate it. You know what I mean?
Jamie:I've never I've never witnessed a a... I've never seen such a one-sided game.
Scott:Okay. Not that's
Jamie:not being. And normally parents start screaming, like, after the first couple, if they see it on their side and the other side's not getting called. Normally parents start yelling from the stands. Right? And it's blatantly obvious.
Jamie:Right? You know? And then it normally turns the other way. Right? Because they try to, like, even out, you know, the...
Jamie:You know, what it looks like. But I but I have to tell you, like, he he threw Dominic off the ice for not having a mouth guard. This is how it started. He started throwing kids off the ice for not having mouth guards. Okay.
Jamie:Fine. So he's he sees Dominic in the face off circle, and he goes, where's your mouth guard? And Dominic goes Dominic goes, it's the locker room. He goes, go get it. He goes he goes, I can't wear it.
Jamie:He goes, I have braces, and it's going to break my braces. And the ref's like, don't care. So Dom got off. I understand he's trying to protect Dominic. Okay.
Jamie:No problem. So Dom got off the ice, goes and grabs his mouth guard, puts it in, breaks his braces. Gotta go tomorrow to have them fixed. You know? So apparently, he did not like that Dominic talked back to him.
Jamie:When Dominic said, hey. Listen. Like, I can't wear it. It's gonna break my my, you know, my braces. You know, he...
Jamie:Apparently, he didn't like that. And our coach even said to him, like, like, you got mad at my player, and you took it out on the rest of the team because he was like, I can't wear my mouth guard.
Scott:Wow.
Jamie:Dude, it was crazy. It was crazy. And I get you're trying to protect kids. I understand that. I have no problem with you sending my kid to the the locker room to get his mouth guard.
Jamie:No problem whatsoever. And I understand why Dominic didn't wear it because he didn't wanna break his braces, and he broke his braces. He broke, like, one... The back the back two are off now. Like I said, he's gotta go to the orthodontist tomorrow.
Jamie:You know? But, like, the... And I really hope that he didn't take it out on on our team because of... Because because because they are... A bunch of my kids did have mouth guards.
Scott:But still, I mean, like, you just... If the kids... The mouth guard thing is is really is, I think, crazy because talk about something that's, like, inconsistent, you know, like, it's it's more times than not, like, refs are not enforcing that, at least for what I've seen so far. But then you have the one guy, and so that's going to enforce it, and you're catching kids off guard, you're catching fail... You know, it's like, look, at the end of the day, should us as parents be ready to throw a mouth guard into our kid's mouth if they need it?
Scott:A 100%. But it's it's so few and far between. I I completely see how people don't. You know?
Jamie:And you know what? We we haven't gotten a penalty for kids not having a mouth guard. Know what I mean? So it's not like that type of stuff. You know, again, I I have no problem with the mouth guard stuff, but it...
Jamie:But I really hope that that he didn't take it out on our team because Dominic was like, dude, I can't wear my mouth guard. Like, I can't. Hey. He wore it. He he put it in, and he snapped his braces.
Jamie:So it is what it is. You know? And and now I just went and got... What I just got, I went and bought Shock Doctor. They just got delivered yesterday.
Jamie:Shock Doctor orthodontic mouth guards.
Scott:Okay.
Jamie:So apparently, they work with braces.
Scott:Okay.
Jamie:You know?
Scott:Good. So he's got one.
Jamie:He... Yeah. So he did... We actually bought three of them. So he actually didn't he actually didn't give didn't give a penalty to, you know, to to any of our kids for doing that.
Jamie:So I I get that, but the the point that you make about the refs being inconsistent, whether it's with mouth guards or whether it's with... When we were at our showcase two weeks ago, one ref started calling. So when you hit Bantam, for those of you who are out there, either you're at Bantam or you're coming up to Bantam, when you hit Bantam, if... In club hockey, if you hit without making a play for the puck, technically, that can be called as a penalty. If you don't make a play for the hockey puck with your stick while you're driving your shoulder into the person, you can get called for a penalty.
Jamie:Okay? So to your point, Scott, we got called on that in one game last weekend.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:So it's so subjective as to which ref is going to call it and which ref isn't. Some call it, some don't. You know what I mean? And then when you get to high school, it's like a free for all. Right?
Jamie:Like, can hit, like, as the puck leaves, you can hit a couple seconds after, you know, after the puck is gone. There's no consistency in in refereeing from what I can tell as far as as far as hitting goes.
Scott:Right. Right? Well, that's like, you know, like, when you have a problem, right, like, it's, you know, it's typically, like, it's either the people or the process. Right? And a lot of times, it always comes back to, like, training and the quality of the training and the extent of the training.
Scott:And while not pointing the finger at, like, you know, the the the current training, whatchamacallit, like, the official training, you know, it gives a... But all all I'm saying is that, like, you you know, for, I don't know, you know, for for people that take pride in their work and and, you know, wanna do the best they can, you know, I I think it's... You know, it would be great if, you know, they they were, I don't know, looking at, you know, like, watching video review of, like, the games and reviewing the penalties and, you know, I don't know if refs do that. You know, I don't know if, like, you know, us as, like, parents and, like, kids, like, look at our games and say, oh, this this was good, this wasn't good. Like, how many refs do you think are rewatching games on Live Barn and being like, oh, I I doubt...
Scott:I see why the parents were pissed about that. Like, do you even think that's a thing?
Jamie:Maybe? For some? So so funny you said that. Conveniently, the Northwell Health Live Barn was off that game.
Scott:Oh, how about that?
Jamie:How convenient. Right? I'm I'm sure that was just a coincidence, but it was not... Because I I would have gone back and watched that. I normally wouldn't give a shit, but I actually would have gone back and watched that.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Because it was pretty it was pretty it was pretty like, again, super one-sided. So very frustrating, you know. And again, I don't really care that they lost the game. You know, we'll we'll see that team again, and we'll pound them. But it's just frustrating for the kids go through...
Jamie:Listen, but life's not fair. You know? So, you know, you always talk about... We always talk about looking for a silver lining. Right?
Jamie:Life's not fair, and sometimes you need to figure out a way to overcome whatever is happening to you at that moment and figure out a way to still try to get the w and to move forward. Right? And that's and that's that's not easy. You know? No doubt.
Jamie:But that's but that's kind of the stuff that I take away from that is sometimes the refs are not gonna be fair to you. It happens. Right? Maybe not that egregiously, but it happens. Yep.
Jamie:And you need to figure out a way around it. Right?
Scott:Couldn't agree more. Could not agree more, dude. A 100%.
Jamie:So here's my rant about shady referees.
Scott:Okay. Well
Jamie:There's lot of really good ones, but this dude on Sunday was... Yikes.
Scott:Yeah. Oof. Well, it sounds like it sounds like we both had our our our fill of less less good things in the youth hockey space this weekend, and hopefully, it's... They're not gonna repeat themselves. But, look, it's it's it's like, you know, we talk about it.
Scott:Things aren't easy, things get complicated. You know, parents don't ruin it for your kids. Just be supportive and, you know, like in... Like Jamie is saying, even in games where the refereeing is horrible, you know, like, when we talked to Bob Mancini, we talked about, you know, the ref, you know, officiating. And one of the things that he brought up was just how, you know, why is it that in hockey, the the go to thing is the ref step on the ice and they get booed.
Scott:Right? And there's just like this negative... Negativity around referees that that just seems to be, like, everywhere, like what I even mentioned in the interview. I was at BU this past weekend to see their home opener versus Yukon, and when the refs hit the ice, the student section just starts booing, you know? Yeah.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie:Get a bad rap, man.
Scott:They get... Yeah. A 100%. And, you know, again, I think people need to have some kind... Some level of empathy, and, you know, it's it's it's not easy.
Scott:Right?
Jamie:Yes. It's definitely not easy. 100%. You know?
Scott:So No. You're absolutely right. That said, what do you think we we welcome back Bob Mancini, USA's assistant executive director of Hockey Development, and our first three time guest to the pod.
Jamie:Oh, yes. Yes. Enjoy everybody. Since we forgot to ask since we forgot to ask him the sparks first question of the interview, how about how about how about enjoy Bob Mancini's third appearance on the Crazy Hockey Dads with us talking some DL sponsored by Sparks Skate Sharpener.
Scott:Okay. There you go. Way to put it in there. And I did wanna say this, and I do... Before I forget, I want to shout out Donnie.
Scott:Donnie from Long Island came up to me at the tournament this weekend and said, what's up, fan of the pod? So I just wanna give him a shout out. Good catching up with him. His kid plays for the PAL Islanders. And so in any event, thanks for listening, buddy.
Scott:And, yeah, just wanted to shout him out.
Jamie:Nice. Thanks, Donnie. Appreciate you listening. And I... We love all our Long Island listeners.
Jamie:I just hate your referees.
Scott:Okay. Alright. And the traffic. The traffic is also reasonable.
Jamie:That's a whole another story. We'll... We've gotten into that in the past. But love all you Long Island listeners. Enjoy Bob All
Scott:right. Let's go.
Jamie:All right. We are back with our next interview, and we have the pleasure, for a third time to have mister Bob Mancini from USA Hockey on. Bob?
Scott:Let's go....
Jamie:How are you doing? Thanks so much for coming on, and you're the first three time guest on the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast, and rightfully so.
Bob:Wow. That's... Yeah. Well, thank you guys for having me. I feel like that special SNL episode, right, where they have the hosts that have been on five times or 10, whatever.
Bob:Yeah, you guys don't have Tom Hanks in the background coming on, do you?
Jamie:Never know. We have surprises.
Scott:You've ruined it.
Jamie:Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on with us again. I know you're super busy these days. I'm sure you're being pulled in every different direction. Update us.
Jamie:It's been about ten months ish since we spoke to you last. What's been going on with USA Hockey?
Bob:Yeah. Wow. I mean, the biggest news, of course, is the launch of the DL, and we ended up... The committee ended up deciding 29 teams was the right number for now. We put out 29 invitations, 29 acceptances, which funny.
Bob:There was a narrative, Oh, this team isn't going to accept, and that team isn't going like, Oh, what's going to happen? The fact is we were never really concerned about that. It wasn't even something we were worried about because the feedback we were getting from the entire environment was this was something we had to do. This was a direction we had to go in. And the real tough part of course is that not everyone can get in.
Bob:This wasn't made for everybody. This was made, as we've talked about before, to redefine the pathway and to not just redefine, but reimagine and try to get all of youth hockey under control, so to speak, or make more sense for parents. It's funny, we just had a USA Hockey affiliate presence meeting that was so great and so enjoyable. We have so many hardworking volunteers that do great stuff all over our country. One of the points I made, and I'll start here with it, James, is the fact that while everybody wants to talk about the DL all the time, right?
Bob:95% of my job, 95% of our conversations, 95% of what we do is everything else around that. Right. Like with any new initiative, it's going to take the bandwidth of everybody. It's going to move to the forefront. Of course, we have tremendous, tremendous passionate people in our youth hockey ecosystem that want to know.
Bob:So it's been busy. It's been fun. There are a lot of other good things going on with USA Hockey. We're getting ready for national championships, getting ready for... You know, we're already planning for next year's development camps.
Bob:Right? Districts and affiliates are already planning on how do they get their players through the system and through national camps. And so, you know, I know we're here to talk about the DL, and I'm sure that's where we're gonna go, but there's so many good things that happening. You know, girls hockey continues to be on the rise. Membership is up.
Bob:Coaching registration is up. You know, our officials, while right now year over year registration is down just a little bit, we're coming off of two record breaking years for official registration. We think we have another month or so. We're going to hit those numbers again. We're confident we're going to hit those numbers.
Bob:Before we get to the DL, I think that speaks a lot about what I just said about there's so much else, 95% of the job. Believe USA Hockey and our affiliates have done a nice job in trying to make hockey better, trying to make youth hockey better. When we all see the social media posts, we see the problems. We know there are problems, but we continue to push forward and try to make hockey better. I think we're creating a better environment for our officials.
Bob:Not perfect by any means, but better. A better environment and path for our coaches. Not perfect, but better. The addition of our six U, eight U specialty clinic for parents and coaches who have eight U players, that's a big deal. Right?
Bob:We've shortened up our level one, not to make education less important, but to make it more focused on what new coaches need. And then the last thing, I just thought about it, and I'll announce it right here for the first time ever, USA Hockey is holding four webinars for the parents of new players. I believe, yeah, we got one at eleven Eastern and at seven Eastern. Then on November 10 or eleventh, believe it's Tuesday the tenth, same thing. And we've never done that before.
Bob:Every parent of a new player in USA Hockey at six and eight and under got an email invitation to attend this webinar. And you know what? Oh, great. We're so excited about that because it's important. You know, you guys love the game.
Bob:You understand. It's so important to let these parents know you're a part of what we do. Welcome to USA Hockey. Here's what you can expect. And not only is the safety of your child at the foremost of our minds all the time, but so is the experience.
Bob:Right? It's just, hey, look. This is why they're a Crazy Hockey Dads. Right?
Jamie:Well That...
Scott:That's for sure. As you were talking, I'm glad you... I'm I'm really glad you dove into some of the topics other than the DL because obviously, we're certainly gonna get to it. But one of the things when you're talking about officiating that I recall from one of our previous conversations is that, you know, we talked about the younger reps that were entering in, and that's... There were some there were some ideas about differentiating, you know, maybe with an armband for a younger referee.
Scott:You know, if if you wouldn't mind just maybe diving into the officiating because we just both came back from, you know, I came back from a tournament weekend. Jamie came back from a long weekend where refereeing was, you know, a hot button topic across, you know, some of the parents. So I'm just, you know, just curious on on that front, you know, if you could share any more that you you you might have come up there.
Bob:Yeah. No. I'm glad you brought it up. So the Green Armband Initiative is alive and well. It's not in all our affiliates.
Bob:It's still a pilot program that we're going out, making sure we're getting the data that is important for us to make decisions going forward, but that program is there. We've changed our officiating, excuse me, education model just a little bit in order to get more people into officiating, and we're using the same model as the American Development Model or the same direction. The American Development Model is about getting as many kids as possible in the right environment and for as long as possible. Same kind of thing with officiating. Let's get as many kids to try officiating, let's put them in a great environment, and then let's keep them in that environment.
Bob:And then along with that, we've kind of also gone down the same path with the ADM of play, love, excel. So with players, we want them to play, we want them to love the game, and then once they love the game, they're going to excel because they're going to want to do it. Well, now we have officiate, love, excel. Right? So come and try officiating and let us help you love officiating, right?
Bob:Because the one thing I've learned, and I think, Scott, I talked about this maybe on my last time I was on, is officials love the game as much, if not more than coaches and players.
Scott:Right.
Bob:We got to capitalize on that. So this whole idea of try officiating, let's get you to love officiating because if you love officiating, you're going to stay in it, you're going to excel at it. Officiating's hard. We're doing a lot of coeducation between coaches and officials and the number one thing we hear from coaches all the time is when we do something like you make the call, we show the video in real time, and every time there'll be at least, I don't know how many coaches that say, Can you show me that again? Right?
Bob:And the answer is no, no. Ref doesn't get to see it again. That's right. It's such a tough thing to do. Have so much respect for our officials out in the field and what they do.
Bob:Do we have problems? Do we have issues? Do we have to make it better? 100%, but that's with everything we do. If we're not constantly reviewing and getting better, then we're going backwards, right?
Bob:That's true with all our programming.
Jamie:Yeah. Nothing's perfect. Right? Nothing is, you know, and you can't expect it to be perfect. You know, I'm curious, Bob.
Jamie:You know, do you... This could be a silly question, but I'm curious to hear your response. Is the retention hard for officials these days because of how insane parents are?
Bob:Well, yes, but it's not the number one reason why officials are leaving the game. It's in the top three. Right?
Scott:Okay.
Bob:And we... And and that is not to discount it at all. We have to make it safer for officials. Why is it that hockey... You don't hear the umpires booed when they're announced at baseball games.
Bob:You don't hear the NFL officials booed when they come onto the field. Why is it that the default reaction when an official comes on the ice is that we boo them? Inherently that's an issue, right? We got to start there. But it is a very important piece.
Bob:We got to make the environment safer. We got to make the environment better. There should be at the grassroots level zero tolerance for abuse of officials. And that's where we have to get to because the job is hard enough. But I go back to the education part, right?
Bob:I mean, we all coach or, Oh, can I see that again? I want to go to the video. Guess what? The official's there in real time and they got a choice to make and this And is what it we're also been doing something which has been a lot of fun, is trying to show the call from different point of view. So it's easy sometimes to make a call if you have the overhead camera, what if you have the camera at eye level of where an official is?
Bob:Or what if that camera has to go through two skating bodies, a falling defenseman, a goalie that's in front of you, a net that's blocking your view? Now you have to make the same call. So, you know, if I had a wish, my wish would be for all of us in the hockey community to take a step back and recognize the difficulty of this job. But with that said, I think we made tremendous, tremendous advancements in our officiating education and our officiating development. For the first time we've hired three officiating development coordinators, and their job is to go out to the grassroots and help our referee and chiefs in each district and each affiliate to make officiating better, and that's exciting.
Bob:Right now you're all thinking to yourself, Oh yeah, I remember Bob only needs two questions to fill an hour.
Jamie:That's right. Well, I forgot you said that when you came on with this the first time.
Scott:But, you know, it's it's interesting some of the... You know, what you just talked about officiating. I do two quick notes. I was at the the BU UConn home opener on Saturday night, and like you... Like, just like you were saying, the moment the refs hit the ice, the entire student section was booing.
Scott:Entire... And my daughter was actually saying, why are they booing? And I said, you know, that's a really good question. And... But then the other the other part was just trying to, you know, make a call throughout everything that's going on on the ice.
Scott:I mean, we just saw in the NHL. I forget which game it was, but how long did they play when the net was dislodged? I I don't know if you saw that clip also. Like, a goalie made a save with the the goal, like, half off. So even at that level with all the technology, something as obvious as a goal off its pegs was was missed for a considerable amount of time.
Scott:So needless to say, it is definitely not easy.
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:And then, you know, one other thing, at least on my mind, and James, if there's something else in your mind before we talk to y'all, I just wanted to dive a little bit into the women's game. You know, we had spent some time, you know, speaking with some of the women's coaches recently and, you just really hearing a different perspective and their enthusiasm and excitement and just, you know, what's going on in the women's game. So just on on your end, is there is there any other, you know, highlights that you want to to call out there?
Bob:Well, you know, last year, we had for the first time ever over a 100,000 girls and women playing the game and that was a long time goal of USA Hockey and our Girls Council. And Don Gould who heads our Girls Council and Kristen Saggart who is our director of girls hockey at USA Hockey. And just so many people on the girls council, too many to mention that have made this such a passion of love and of what they do for the women's game is incredible and it continues to be a bright beacon of our sport at USA Hockey. This past weekend I had the pleasure of attending our Game On Women's Leadership Summit, and this is our sixth year in a row. This one was held down in Tampa.
Bob:We had over 60 women and men, but people who are focused on women's hockey who came down to learn more about how can we get more volunteers in women's hockey? How can we be more purposeful in what we do? How can we continue to build on this surge of girls and women who are playing the game and continue to make it such a positive direction? Is my third one, which is a funny story. When I got this job a few years back, I remember asking Kristen if I could go because it was the Women's Leaderships Conference, right?
Bob:So I transitioned this job and she laughed and she goes, Of course you can It's not just for women, but it's about women. There are so many men who, not enough, but who embrace their leadership role in women's hockey. But it was a great weekend. They had some great speakers and great direction, and we're just very fortunate to have the leadership of the USA Hockey Girls Council do what they do. They are on and try to be on the cutting edge of girls hockey with everything they do.
Bob:So I'm just... I'm thrilled to be a little bit a part of that.
Jamie:Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. You see it. Like Scott said, we talked to Courtney Kessel, the Princeton women's head coach.
Jamie:We're gonna have the Harvard women's head coach on. I mean, the women's game is exploding, Bob. It's it's it's really nice to see. You know? I'm hoping they start adding more division one hockey teams, right, to give these girls more of an option to play in in college than there are now.
Jamie:I mean, it's awesome. And I can't imagine it's gonna slow down anytime soon.
Scott:Yeah. No. I agree.
Bob:I agree. All indications point that there's no slowing down. So Right. That's good. Sorry, Scott.
Scott:No. No. It's all good. I was just gonna share when we we were over at Princeton for the the Baker Bash, you know, we got to see a little bit behind the scenes and even just speaking with Courtney. It would...
Scott:One thing that I took away from that interview that I don't know that I've taken away from any other interview, you know, on on the men's side is just the amount of fun that these girls are having being a part of a of a hockey team. Like, it's just like, yes. It's serious. And, yes, they're they're there for a wide variety of reasons, and there's women that wanna play in the PWHL and take it to the next level. But just the smiles and the enthusiasm is just like...
Scott:It's... The culture feels feels different, and it feels like I said to Jamie immediately after the interview, he was like, I wanna go hang out with them. That that... That's what... That's the locker room.
Scott:I... You know, I would like to, like, you know, just experience to hear, like, all the camaraderie and all the jokes, and it was just really refreshing. But, you know, it's Josh,
Bob:so I have a question for you. How do we get that back in every level of the boys game? Right? Because it's a great question, because I think fun is such a driving force to keep kids in hockey at any level. The DL should be fun.
Bob:Tier one should be fun. Rec hockey should be fun. Mensley should be fun. We do too quickly, especially on the boys' side, disconnect fun from a higher level. Oh my God, now it becomes serious.
Bob:Oh my gosh. To me, it's a bit of an issue. As you guys know, we talk about fun a lot. We talk about the experience a lot, But it's critical that we make sure it stays in our game, both boys and girls, at every level.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. You know, the the first thing we... As you ask that question that that that comes to mind, and it's it's not gonna... You know, it's more of a a general thought about about how things kinda get serious at the younger ages so quickly, but, you know, you have parents that, you know, are seeing kids that are now, you know, like, okay.
Scott:For... Previously, we're looking at, like, oh, maybe my kid will get a scholarship. Right? And there's obviously the NHL where guys are making millions. Right?
Scott:But now you have, like, the NIL money that's coming in, and you hear about, like, you know, football players in Texas getting, like, Nike deals in high school, and there's, like, this downward pressure to achieve a, you know, greatness because there's something on the other end younger and younger. And I think that you have parent coaches that take it way too seriously, not all for sure. And I'm sure this happens on the women's side too. Right? But I I just think that there's that there's, like, holistically, that there's a ton of downward pressure, you know, that's put on these younger kids by their parents because they're seeing something on the other end that, you know, that that that they're chasing probably more so than their kids.
Scott:And I know... I don't know. Certainly, that's a complicated thing to kinda nuance and it's... You know, or to dissect and nuance. But that...
Scott:That's kind of like... You know? And as far as it... How's it relate to the women's game? You know, I'm I'm not sure.
Scott:Perhaps because the women's game isn't as established with, you you know, as the men's game and it doesn't... You know, perhaps there aren't as many people that are, you know, seeing women's hockey as a means to an end. And and and I'm just speaking generally. I'm not saying that's true, and I'm not saying that's my... Necessarily my opinion either, but those are some things that kinda pop into my mind.
Bob:Yeah. It's, you know, I don't think I said the last time we were together, but John O'Sullivan with the changing game project, he changed my life as a hockey parent. And, you know, I I said to you, the ADM changed my life, right, Coming back to work for USA Hockey and how much I just absolutely love youth hockey right now. All of those things have changed my life, my career path, all of that. But John O'Sullivan, yeah, I got to meet him a couple of years ago.
Bob:Was funny. We had never met before, but kind of in the same circle sort of. He came up to me and he was like, Oh my gosh, I finally get to meet you. I've been looking forward to meet you. I couldn't believe it.
Bob:I'm like, No, that can't be true because all I've ever wanted to do was meet you. You've made a change in my life, He talks about the most important thing you can say to your child is, I love watching you play. And I think I may have mentioned it to you. I still tell my son that to this day. He has to take care of all the other stuff.
Bob:I know what he's doing is hard and stressful and he's got to find his own path, but being able to sit back and just tell him every time I get a chance to watch him play, Victor, I love watching you play. Still to this day, and he's 24 years old and it's still... I think we have to find a way to get that message to every single parent.
Jamie:Yeah. And it's funny. Agree. Yeah. And and it's funny, Bob, you know, I I...
Jamie:So I think what what you guys are doing with the webinars, I think, is really good because I think, from what I've noticed talking to, Courtney Kessel, Ben Sire, you know, Tom Upton, Reed Cashman, We've been talking to a lot of the ECAC coaches these days. And, and what I've noticed is is that these guys and girls, they they establish a certain culture in the locker room. I mean, they really come in and they change the culture and they make fun. Obviously, it's all... Like Scott said, it's all...
Jamie:It's it's very businesslike. It's very serious, but I think you also need to still have fun even if you're at the pro level, right? Pro college youth, whatever it is. But I think the culture is something that's huge. And I think, and obviously Courtney Kessel has changed the culture there.
Jamie:Not like Caramori didn't have a good culture before, but you know, Courtney likes to have fun. You could tell when you talk to her. She's fantastic. Right? So I think I think if you can change...
Jamie:And it's it's gonna take time. Right? But with the education you guys are doing with the webinars, if you guys somehow can change the culture, the thinking, like you said, your thinking was changed, and you can change the thinking of of parents, right, that are new to the game at a young age so they don't get so wrapped up in it as their kids get older. So I think culture is huge. So if you guys can figure out a way to change the culture of the parents when they...
Jamie:When their kids get into youth hockey, and I think you're on the right track with the webinars you guys are doing, I think I think more kids will stay in the game because they will... There will be more fun in the game. Hard hard hard to do. Right? But I think that's...
Jamie:The culture, I think, needs to be changed, if humanly possible, right?
Bob:No. Yeah. Nope. Absolutely, I agree. Yeah.
Bob:A 100%.
Scott:Yeah. All right. So let's switch gears. Let's talk some development lead, Bob. And and, you know, a lot more information has certainly come out, like, since we last spoke, obviously.
Scott:But, you know, maybe just, like, ripping ripping the Band Aid off. Like, what are some of the the, you know, the more challenging things that have come up on on your end that, you know, that you're working through or or perhaps what are some of the the major concerns that you're fielding and looking at as a priority?
Bob:Well, it's an interesting question because there are some specifics obviously, but the biggest thing is that the league is going to get launched here in whatever it is, ten months, right? Obviously we have to have all the answers and we feel that we either have the answers now or the answers will be revealed here shortly. I think though from an overview, the hardest thing has been to let everybody know that just because you may have a question on this podcast and you want that answer now does not mean we need to have it now, right? Doctor. Right, true.
Bob:We know some of this is going to evolve and we know we're going to learn some stuff, and that is a really, really important part of this. We went into thinking that we were going to have... We had very strong language saying, We're going to choose up to 32 teams, because we knew at this point we weren't going to have more than 32 teams because we knew that was the ceiling that the environment really... We couldn't support more than 32 at this time, but we were very careful in the language to say up to 32 because as we went through it, we wanted to make sure we were making good decisions on not just who the programs were, and that's an interesting thing, but also how many programs.
Scott:Because,
Bob:you know, it's much like player development. Just because a tier one team did not get a DL designation now does not mean they're a lousy hockey club, does not mean they're not doing the right things. It doesn't mean that they won't be a DL in the future, right? What means is right now in this snapshot, here's what the committee has chosen to go forward with because the committee had felt this is the best for hockey in The United States at this time, which leads to, Will there be expansion? Yes, there's going to be expansion.
Bob:Oh, Bob, what is expansion going to be? Well, hang on. We're not ready to answer that yet. We will be and we will let everybody know, but just because you want to know what expansion is today and we could be one, two, three years out from expansion, we don't have to have that answer. We don't need to have that answer.
Bob:Sometimes it's like taking over at a new job, right? And I learned this years ago from a great hockey mind, Pierre Page, when he took over, I was working for him. I was there when he took over the Quebec Nordiques. We got to know each other very well and I call him a friend to this day. One of the things we were talking about is what was he going to do when he took over?
Bob:And he says, I'm going to watch for six months. And I thought, Wow. Because too often we want to jump into things that maybe we shouldn't, and we're gonna watch now. This is a big change to the environment. Let's see which clubs that did not make the DL continue to be development based.
Bob:Let's see which ones put the players first. Let's see which ones figure out a new environment and say, Here's how we can be a part of it, instead of saying, Oh, screw you, USA Hockey. You know? Like like, this is an important part of where we go because you've heard me say it, and I'm gonna say it again, and people do not seem to be hearing this. Tier one hockey is an important part of player development in The United States and will continue to be an important part of player development.
Bob:That's why the DL is 15u and 17u, right? Multiple exit and entry points. That's why tier one is 14, 15, 16, and 18. This gives players a chance to develop at their own pace. Just because Scott is not ready for the DL right now doesn't mean just because James is, that Scott isn't going to be a better player than James, because if Scott is committed and he has the right tier one program and he does the right thing, we don't know what's going to happen.
Bob:Right? Every athlete's an experiment of one. Development is not linear. All of these things are so important to what's going to happen, and we're going to see it. And that leads me into...
Bob:I'll give you a very specific example about development. We know that playing one game a day is better for players than playing five or six on a weekend. We know that. There's data that shows it related to injury, related to performance, related to power output. There is real facts and data behind all these.
Bob:Is one of the reasons why playing one game a day and twenty minute periods is so important at those ages that we're making it a development principle. And then I have someone say, Well, all we care about is development. We want to develop it. We do the best job of development than anybody else, but we can't play one game a day. Well, okay, then maybe you're not doing everything for the player.
Bob:We want programs that are player centered and player first, and make good decisions based on the development of players, and then we have, and this may come up, I know it's come up a lot, is, Oh my gosh, one game a day, twenty minute periods, you're gonna add a half an hour time slot. How can we afford it? You're raising the cost. Hang on, I was a liberal arts major, so you guys are going to have to help me here, but if you play five games on a weekend times two hours of versus three games on a weekend times two and a half hours of ice, somehow in my mind, seven and a half times your ice bill or 10 times your ice bill. And again, I'm a liberal arts major, so I'm dumb.
Bob:I don't get masks. All right? But you know, don't throw out to me, That's gonna make the game more expensive. No, it's not, but you know what it is gonna do? It's gonna help develop players in the right environment, right?
Bob:But one game, rest. Let's talk about rest and recovery. I had one coach say to me, Well, we're going to have one game a day. What are we going to do for the rest of the time on an away weekend? How about coach?
Bob:How about coach? How about video? How about have team meetings? How about creating a relationship with your players that is far beyond what you've ever had before? And not that people don't have good ones.
Bob:I'm not saying that. But create the culture that James talked about earlier. Creating culture is not putting a a slogan on the board. Creating culture takes time, right? It takes effort.
Bob:It takes great coaching, not good coaching. It takes great coaching. Well, this is what development principles should look like. So there, I answered your cost question and that... And you know what?
Bob:You've given me the... I love this because every once in a while I look over and I see James and it's all he could do not to just burst out laughing, which is great.
Jamie:It's true.
Bob:Very true. But okay, no, I'll let you ask the question about teams. You want me to just go into it? Yeah, yeah. You might as well.
Bob:Absolutely. Yeah. The other thing is, and this happens with a lot of questions, what's gonna happen to a DL team that's away from the biggest footprint, right? What's gonna happen to teams that have to travel? Oh my God, you're gonna raise, gosh, you're gonna raise the cost of them.
Bob:Wait a second. Those costs are already higher in tier one. The travel is the same. That's why we have a schedule that says you only have to pay 60% of your... Play 60% of your games against EL teams.
Bob:Okay? It doesn't matter. The team from the Southwest is going to get on that same plane they were getting on last year. Their schedule is going to look the same or similar as it was last year and the year before. So I'm getting, as you can tell, a little frustrated and tired with the questions that say, well, you're doing this to something that's already there.
Bob:Right?
Scott:Well, let me let me just interrupt for a sec... Quick second. But on on that, do you think that, okay, so totally, that that makes a ton of sense. Those tier one teams are still doing a ton of traveling, you know, without the DL. Introduce the DL.
Scott:Do you think... I I mean, I can certainly imagine, you know, organizations, coaches, parents that are, you know, insisting upon playing the the toughest schedule possible. Right? And that... And because they have this philosophy or they...
Scott:Because that's, you know, what they think is... If if we play, you know, 10 more DL games than, you know, the next team, then, you know, that's gonna be better for our kids to develop. Right? Like, how how would you respond to that?
Bob:Which we know isn't true. Right? We actually know that's factually incorrect. Now Scott, you're 100% that's the belief, but the true development happens when you play a percentage of your games against players that are a little bit better than you, and a percentage of your games against players that aren't quite as good as you. Sure.
Bob:And then a large part of percent... Percentage of games of players of likability. So this is why it was DL 60% of the games. This is why we want our DL teams to play tier one, why we want our tier one teams to play DL teams. Know, there are before and after teams that wanna play the DL.
Bob:This is important for the entire environment. You see, and that's the beauty. One of the things I love about my job, my job isn't about tier one versus high school versus prep school versus DL. I don't look at it like that at all. My job is how do we create a total environment?
Bob:How do we create the totality of player development for kids? Right? Those kids playing on great tier two programs, they have... Some of them have the desire to play tier one. Well, those tier two programs doing what it takes?
Bob:And those kids who are playing tier one, they may have the desire to play DL. Well, are those kids in programs doing what it takes? And the same thing goes through with the DL team. So This is more about looking at this in the totality of the structure of, in this case, boys moving through a development system to fulfill their own potential, and we don't know what that potential is. It's really interesting right now that the parent of every 14 year old thinks this is going to change hockey because every 14 year old on every team throughout The United States is going to go try out for a DL team and make it.
Bob:Well, that's not possible, right? But what we can do is give every 14 year old that makes it the best environment and every 14 year old that doesn't the best environment where they are so they can make it in the future. The vision of this is so important in terms of early developing players, late developing players, on time developing players, and taking responsibility for your own development. If Bob Mancini really, really wants to be a player and I'm not ready at 15, does Bob Mancini decide I'm going to do everything I can to become a player? Or does Bob Mancini say, You know what?
Bob:I'm not sure that's for me. This is good for me. I like this. I like where I'm at, and that's okay. Then we, as USA Hockey, we, all of us together, have to provide for that player.
Jamie:Right. It's so funny that you brought that up because I have a 14 year old son. So so that was a perfect segue. Well done. Sorry.
Jamie:So Dominic... So my younger one is a 14 you. He's... He he used to play triple a. He's tier two now.
Jamie:And... Alright. So I I have a two parter for you, Bob. Alright? So so there are...
Jamie:So obviously, we live in North Jersey. There's, you know, three teams right around us that got that got, you know, DL designations. Right? So and this is kind of not not a question, more of like a thought that I have, and you tell me if I'm right. I think that the DL team coming into our area...
Jamie:I... I've been saying for years that I think that that single A is watered down, double A is watered down, and triple A is watered down in our area. Do you think that that the DL teams coming into our area will then maybe push the kids down to the levels maybe which they should be playing and haven't been playing in the right space for however many years now because there's so many triple a teams in the area. So now you have three of the top, you know, clubs in our area that have DL teams, and you're gonna have a flood of kids coming into those programs to try to try out. And that will maybe kind of push people down and maybe make tier two hockey better, maybe make tier one that's not DL hockey better.
Jamie:Am I right about that?
Bob:You are 100% right, and that's exactly what I talk about redefining the pathway, reimagining what this looks like. You hit the nail exactly on the head. Everybody's concerned about, Oh, my kid isn't going to make this team or that team, instead of being concerned with, Is my son playing where he should be? I will tell you right now. So the DL rule is each club could have up to four 14 year olds.
Bob:Now we don't know if that's the right number yet because the environment is changing so quickly. The new major junior rule or the new NCA rule, players lead, all of this is changing so quickly, but we knew we had to find the number where there was a limit, but also encaptured what if there really is that many great 14 year olds? We couldn't limit it to the point where we're going, Oh no. So we've decided to let the market decide, but I will tell you this, James, and I didn't realize that Dominic was 14, but I will tell you this. This will be the biggest mistake the parent of a 14 year old will make.
Bob:My son has to play on a DL team and gonna be the twelfth forward on a DL team or the sixth defenseman because that parent is gonna threaten clubs with, Well, if you don't take my son, he's going somewhere else, or, If you don't take my son, we're never coming back to this program, instead of actually doing right for their son. Be good at the level you're at. Dominate the level you're at. If you are a top 14 year old who's in the top three forwards, the top two d on your tier one team, and you're on the ice all the time, and you got the puck in your hands, and you're running the power play, and you're on the penalty kill, and you are becoming a better player in your environment, is that not better than being the least best player on a DL team, but that is my fear, and it's not a fear for the clubs and the coaches and the organizations. I have to believe that these teams that we're in partnership with will try to make really good decisions for every player.
Bob:My fear is that the uneducated parent, and I shouldn't say that because that's wrong, I apologize.
Jamie:Just the uneducated- The uneducated- Yes, correct. The uneducated
Bob:parent. That's an awful phrase. Try to get it. We talk about, Oh, educating... Oh crap.
Bob:Our parents are educated. Need to make sure our environment's informed. Right? That the uninformed parent will not make a good decision, right? And we talked, I think the last time, if the three of us are in the locker room, or our kids are in the locker room, the decision my son makes, or we make for my son, should have absolutely no impact on what you make for your son and Scott, what you make for yours.
Bob:None.
Jamie:That's
Bob:right. None whatsoever. And that's really the message we have to get to everybody.
Jamie:That's right. And I actually have... So the second part of my question, Scott, and you can ask yours as soon as I'm done.
Scott:No, no, you're good, dude.
Jamie:Because I'm gonna forget, and it ties in. All right, if your child plays on a DL team, they cannot play high school hockey. Is that a correct statement?
Bob:So there's a USA hockey rule that you cannot be rostered on two USA hockey teams. There are some affiliates who allow rostering for USA hockey or for federation play. We are talking about doing right now is having it in the DL. Right now it says in the DL guidelines that you're not allowed to play on any other roster. The truth is we can't actually make that statement, but the clubs can, right?
Bob:So the clubs can say, Hey, Scott, if you play on our DL team, you're not allowed to play on any other team. USA Hockey can't prohibit that. We can prohibit kids from being on two USA Hockey rosters. Right. So what we're doing is through our agreements with the clubs and through what will be our player agreements, is we are telling players, No, you can't play on outside hockey.
Bob:But there's a reason for this, right? We go back to development. If we're going to have six days of practice and or games, if we're going to have one game a day, that if we want, we're either going to put our kids in the best environment or we're not, right? That's what people, quite honestly, not just with this, that's what people are having a problem with, is, Oh, I am all about development as long as it doesn't involve actual development.
Jamie:Right. All right. So do me a favor. Explain, because you just kind of touched on it. What does a weekly schedule look like for a DL player?
Jamie:Because you just said you know, six days a week. Tell me what that looks like. Because I see why you wouldn't want somebody to play high school hockey and this. I don't think you'll have the time, and you'll burn out, and there's no time for recovery if what I'm hearing you say is true.
Bob:So what we're going to continue to do is help inform coaches and have meetings with experts in the field to help all our coaches and programs, deliver the right programming. And it could look a little bit different for everybody. Sure. Right? Depending on where you are.
Bob:But, you know, one thing that's important at this age level is that every player has one day off, and that's a great example. Could you imagine if, you know, our DL clubs had six days of on and off ice training and games, and then on that seventh day the kid went and practiced or played for his high school team? When's he going to get off in the next six months? When is he going have a day off? He's not.
Bob:Won't Right. And so this is why we're looking at this more holistically, right? But there should be training six days a week, training or games, right? You might have two games a week, you might have three games a week. We always want a day off.
Bob:You might have two off ice sessions a week. You might have three. One of the things that we're advising clubs to do is not to not to schedule your off ice training around competition, but rather schedule your off ice training on what's good for that athlete at that age with the championships in mind, and that's what the MTDP does. We don't not train off ice hard on a Thursday just because the 18 team is playing Lincoln on Friday, right? The goal is the under eighteen world championships, so what does your training schedule look like?
Bob:For the DL, the goal is the DL championships, which by the way, every team is going to be in the championships. Right? Oh, really? Okay. Why?
Bob:It's a development reason because now you're behind the bench, James, in November and you're playing every player because you know you don't have to win that game, you know, on a Tuesday in November at the expense of development. Do you wanna win that game? 100%.
Jamie:Of course. Right? It's not necessary for the standings. Doesn't matter.
Bob:The standings that, you know, you're not gonna get a bad draw. Right? And, you know, that's part of development. Right? Interesting.
Bob:Now, will there be an outside entity who decides to put out a DL rankings and then standings? We may put out a DL ranking. We might wanna own that narrative, right? But the fact is what's happening every day in the program, what's happening every day at the club. Right?
Bob:So every week will be a little different. Three games, two games, three off ice, two, but a minimum of two every week. What about video? Video is important. What about the clips all getting pushed to players?
Bob:Are the players having access to the clips? Do they have access to the clips with their coaches? How are these clubs watching video? Are they watching video through questioning? There is a big difference between how coaches at the highest levels watch video, and we have some great coaches in the DL and great programs, and I'm certainly not saying, Oh, we know everything and they not.
Bob:No, this is a partnership, right? But how about our tier one or tier two coaches? There's a big difference between you and I watching video and me going, Scott, you need to do this. Look at this clip, you should have done that. Coaching the result.
Bob:Or how about you and I, Scott, sit down and we watch video and I say, What did you see here?
Jamie:If influenced this
Bob:you were in this situation again, would you make that same decision? What other options do you have? This is video through learning. This is video through questioning, right? And then, you know, we went and interviewed a college program, the other day, and this coach pushes all his video out to his players, and if you wanna watch video with a coach, you gotta come back and email him five videos that you wanna talk about, but you gotta do the work.
Bob:Do you wanna become a player? Right? And this is gonna be a big part of what we do. Will our players take responsibility for their own development?
Scott:Right. So, you know, that... That's... So just thinking about the the... You know, that part of it, what came to mind also is that, like, you know, for organizations that also have, you know, like, our development league organizations, it just seems like even within that organization, right, there's gonna be some best practices that are gonna be leaned leaned into for all the other ages.
Scott:That's that's probably just, you know, that's only gonna help help throughout. But as you're talking about as coaches or coaching staff for the DL teams, one of the parents that had written in, just wanna give... So this is Guddy Hockey, have written in, will the will the DL require non parent coaches? Is a question we got from one of our listeners.
Bob:Yeah, and the answer is no. The DL is creating partnership with all these clubs, but we have to trust our partners to make good decisions. And so the quick answer is no, there are some things that we will control and some things that we'll leave up our partners to control, right? Is the real question, will we allow parent coaches or is the real question, I don't like that parent coach because he plays his son too much, Well then maybe I won't take my kid there. Well that's a reflection of your program, right?
Bob:The stuff that's happening every day in those clubs, I believe all our clubs, whether it's DL, tier one, tier two, all our organizations and programs, the decisions they make will reflect on their future success.
Scott:Right. And kind of in the same vein as like on how organizations are perceived and how they're implementing DL, another one of our listeners, this is Kimberly Dirkinson, I think, or did did you... Dadsden? I apologize for butchering that up. But in any event, can can the DL teams recruit from anywhere in the country is the question.
Bob:They can recruit and or sign players from anywhere in the country. But, again, that's what's allowed. We already have a number of DL teams, you know, and and by the way, this goes back to that same thing. In some affiliates, tier one teams can do the same. Other affiliates- They're doing now.
Bob:It's- They're doing it now. Right, exactly. And so that's not gonna change much, but it's interesting to hear some of our DL clubs that are talking about, Oh, we're gonna take players within a 100 miles of our... We have enough players, we think, here or there And or it's gonna change. It's gonna be different everywhere, but the quick answer is there are no residency requirements in the DL.
Scott:Right. We actually... And on that note, you know, for parents that are concerned about that, who... You know, just this past weekend, I was told that 2014 birth year team had brought in a goalie from Ukraine. So so just for whatever that's worth, it's it's, you know, it's ramping at all the age levels, which I think is kind of mind blowing.
Scott:But, yeah, you know, I think to your point, there's, you know, there's... It's it's happening now anyway. So it doesn't seem like just because it's now a DL designation that that's gonna change the landscape at all.
Bob:Goal tending is interesting. I'm glad you brought it up. Right? No non US goaltenders in the development league. We gotta do something to continue to develop our goaltenders, and that's one of the things we're doing.
Bob:No non U. S. Goalies in the development league.
Jamie:Oh, really? So no... So that kid from Ukraine cannot play in the DL when he gets to that age? Wow. So what about skaters, Bob?
Jamie:What about regular skaters, defensemen,
Bob:forwards? There's a rule that you will have to have played in The United States previous to the DL.
Jamie:For a
Scott:handful of
Bob:areas. There's a limit, and there's also, I think it's a limit of two
Jamie:Per team.
Bob:Up to two players per team. Okay. And the idea there is that you can't go out and recruit a kid from wherever-
Jamie:Canada....
Bob:To come and play on your DL team, but we also have to recognize you know, our partnership with Canada and, you know, people who making their living here, right, and kids who are in the system.
Jamie:Interesting. Okay. Right. I like that. Yeah.
Jamie:Yeah. So I'm curious, Scott. I'm gonna I'm gonna ask the question that I know you're probably gonna ask next because No.
Scott:You go for it, dude.
Jamie:Because it was it was kind of a a part of the question that that I was thinking too. When I first heard
Bob:Yeah.
Jamie:You know, who kind of who kind of the DL teams around us, I know a lot of them are academy based, and I think, Scott, one of our questions was, you know, do the DL teams have to have an academy attachment where people are billeting there or sleeping there? You know, I think I know your answer, but I'm curious because I think a lot of our listeners are curious to hear.
Bob:Yeah, no, having an academy was not part of the criteria for a DL team, and again, that's a nod that it looks a little bit different everywhere, right? That's one of the things at USA Hockey when we're putting in initiatives like this. We do have to consider what does this look like because a parent, a podcast, whatever, you're so entrenched in understanding what is happening in your region, right? Well, it might be very different. So the quick answer is no.
Bob:However, we have a SafeSport handbook and we have USA guidelines for SafeSport. So these are already in place for any program, tier one, USA high school, whatever, and all the programs do have to continue to follow those safe sport guidelines when it comes to dorms, building, and things like that.
Scott:Right. So to to kind of maybe getting into the... Some more of the details of the difference between what would be like... And we we talked about this earlier. We had a question come in that was like, so how do you envision a 15 pure team for 15 pure triple eight team differing from a 15 new development league team?
Bob:Well, by the rule, a 15 new team can have up to four 14 year olds on it. A 15 only team can only have 15 year olds on it. So that's the distinction and the rule. We'll see what that plays out and the nice thing about that is that was an important birth year. We want a wide base.
Bob:We want that 15 only tier one to have all those 15 onlys because again, especially at that age, we know there's tremendous turnover at our national camps between 15, 16 and 17 because again, development is not linear. I don't know if there's going to be that much of change. Oh, Bob, aren't you afraid that 15 only teams are going to beat a DL15U team? Absolutely not. Best thing that could happen to hockey.
Bob:It's just like the NTDP. Oh, USA hockey. Aren't you afraid that a team in the USHL is gonna beat the best 17 year old? No. This is...
Bob:You know, the rising tide raises all boats. Right? This is good for hockey. Right? Because those teams want to win, and now they're forced to get better.
Bob:The NTDP teams are forced to get better. The USHL teams are forced to get better, and I keep preaching this and I won't stop. This is why the partnership between USA Hockey D. L. Tier one and Tier two, and what you brought up earlier, James, what you talked about about having kids play at the right level, this will really be the most important thing that happened with the DL.
Bob:Just like when people, as you know, I was at the beginning of the MTDP, one of the people that were fortunate enough to be there when we first started the program. Well, what has been the biggest impact? And everybody wants to go to number of draft choices, number of NHLs, dah dah dah dah dah. 100% that's really important, but for me, when you look at the MTDP, the biggest impact has been that all junior programs around it had to get better. When the NTDP started, the USHL teams had one coach and some of them had a part time or volunteer assistant.
Bob:The next thing you know, there are rules in place. You have to have a coach and an assistant, then a goalie coach, then a trainer, then a strength and conditioning program, right? This is all good stuff for us, and this is what we're trying to do.
Jamie:Yeah. It's good for USA Hockey and the country as a whole across the board. Exactly. Right? So can you clarify, Bob, the 15U and the 17U?
Jamie:How many kids can play? Like how many 14 year olds can be on the fifteen year team? How many 16 year olds can be on the seventeen year team? Can you clarify that for our listeners?
Bob:Yeah, so first of all, maybe you could edit in the QR code to our FAQ somewhere, right? Sure, People need to go to the website and read because the there's just too much, like there are even media outlets that are just assuming things that aren't true or saying things that are not factually based. So up to four 14 year olds can play on a 15U team and up to two 15 year olds can play on a 17u team and goaltenders are included in that. So goaltenders are not exempt from that. Right.
Bob:But those are the only restrictions. Now, some people are saying, Oh, well, I remember reading you restricted 17 year olds. You restricted the number of 16 year olds. And here's the interesting thing. One of the things we were tasked with was to be completely transparent in the process.
Bob:But when you're completely transparent in the process, that means you tell people, Hey, we're thinking about this. You may have heard this. We're looking into this. We're experimenting with these, whatever it might be, and then that becomes gospel.
Jamie:All of a sudden it becomes factual in Yes. Their
Bob:So then when a decision is made, okay, and I love this, a decision is made, one of two things happened. One thing was, Oh, well, they have no idea what they're doing. They can't even make up their mind on this. Okay. Yeah, whatever.
Bob:Or the other thing is, Well, that's not right. You can't win for losing in this, but I am so comfortable with the process that the DL joint subcommittee went through and the transparency with all our partners. Look, some people say, Well, this is the first I ever heard of it. Okay. Not our fault, right?
Bob:There's an FAQ, there've been releases, there've been articles on the website, there's been all of these things, QR codes in every form we can put it out to, right? But do we have to do better communication? A 100%, we'll continue to find ways.
Jamie:Right, it's like you said, the uninformed parent or uninformed somebody tells somebody else who's uninformed and it just kind of like spiders out from there, right? Unfortunately. All right, so my other question is, and I think I know the answer, but just for our listeners. So if an an organization gets a DL 15 u and a DL 17 u, those teams cannot also have tier one teams in those categories. Correct?
Bob:At fifteen and sixteen.
Jamie:That was correct.
Bob:And there was a very, very good reason behind that. We know that tier one was already watered down, So right? If we would've just added DL teams on top of those existing teams-
Jamie:It wouldn't have fixed anything.
Bob:We would've been creating 29 more programs at each age group.
Jamie:It would've made it worse, yeah.
Bob:And that wasn't the, Right. Then there's some other USA Hockey rules that have played into this that have been very, very important. The limit on the percentage of tier one teams by affiliate. That was a big rule change for USA hockey last year, and one that we continue to explore, right? That was big.
Bob:The fact that there's no such thing anymore as non national bound tier one, that was really important, right? Because you have a million tier one teams and you have some of them saying, Oh, well, we're tier one, right? And then they find out, or the parent finds out, Well, they're tier one in name, but they can't compete for the state affiliate district national championship. So our registrar section did a great job of now limiting the number of tier one teams in our affiliates across the nation to 7.5% of the registered players at 14, and they did a great job of not allowing any more non national bound tier one teams. By the way, they continue to look at that and I would expect there's going to be some tweaking to the percentage rule going forward, which is again really important to the environment because we have to be truthful to our clubs and we have to be truthful to our parents, We're not saying your son isn't a good player.
Bob:We're saying we want him to play where he can experience the most success and develop. Just because you're on the one hundred and fifty ninth ranked tier one team and your son is the seventeenth player does not make him what he should be at that age. Playing in the right environment at the right level and he wanting to become a player, that's what will take him to where he wants to go, not a label, right? And I tell everybody all the time, USA Hockey has approximately 300 players in the NHL. A 100 of those, somewhere between ninety six and one hundred two every day because the numbers change with IR.
Bob:Right.
Jamie:Who goes up and goes down.
Scott:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bob:Yeah. But let's say 300 in the NHL, 100 played at our national team development program. 200 of those players in the National Hockey League who are US players never played the national team development program. That's how important getting development right at tier one and the DL is. That's how important getting development right at our player development is.
Bob:Two thirds of the players, US players in the National Hockey League did not play at the NTDP. Now, that makes sense. They only graduate 22, 23 players a year, right? I mean, that makes sense, but still, that's why all of this other stuff is so, so important. Right.
Bob:Right. Right.
Scott:So now we have a development league, I know parents have talked about how are they measuring development? What what what are what are maybe some, like, KPIs or metrics that USA Hockey is gonna be looking at to see how the development league is performing perhaps against, you know, just, you know, tier one, for example?
Bob:Right. So that's one of those questions that I can tell you the things we're talking about, I can't tell you what we've decided on. We are currently looking at a number of ways to do that. Off ice testing one, two, three times a At base programming, constant constant with off ice or strength and conditioning people in the programs to measure physical development. Then we're looking at on ice, how do we do that?
Bob:Time on ice. Right now, Ken Martell, who's our senior director of coach and player development, he's looking at a number of different avenues where we can get that information and try to have meaningful results out of that because you don't want to just collect data for the sake of collecting data, right? So video, teaching through video, right? I mean with AI right now, so much is happening, right? Not gonna surprise me that we can actually, well, know you can now, have conversations with AI programs that will tell you on a certain set of metrics on our players improving.
Bob:So if a player in the first month of the season is turning the puck over in danger areas 7.3 times a game, and by December now he's making better decisions and now that turnover is fine, is that a true indication of player development? Those are the things we're looking at right now, Scott. While I can't tell you exactly, I can tell you all that is going to be a part of it, including some things we want to do for the players in mental health and mental performance. This is really important stuff. Right.
Scott:Yeah, for sure.
Jamie:It's so funny that you just brought up Ken Martell. You could run the show today, Bob. So you brought up Ken Martell, because I was going to ask this. So when we had Ken on, I don't know, probably about a year ago, Ken said something about, we have no idea what a kid's going to look like until he hits puberty, right? Then it we on a reel, and we had a lot of parents going, Oh, you know, what does he know?
Jamie:You know, my kid needs to play brick because I read that 20% of people that play brick, or if you play brick, you have a 20% better chance of getting to the NHL. And I look at these comments, Bob, and I want to be like, you're all schmucks. Right? But can you please speak to that? We keep telling people, you don't need to play brick.
Jamie:You don't need to go... Everything will change once puberty hits. Can you please speak to that for me?
Bob:Every athlete is an experimenter one, right? Because Brick did not make Conor McDavid, Right? Conor McDavid made Brick because now Brick gets to say Conor McDavid played here. And those 20% of the players, whether the... If Conor McDavid didn't play Brick, I'm guessing he still would be Connor McDavid.
Jamie:Funny how that is, isn't it?
Bob:Yeah. That's really the question we have to ask ourselves. You look at the number of late developers now playing in the National Hockey League.
Jamie:That's right.
Bob:Do you want your player to be the best nine year old or the best 19 year old? Exactly. The best 19 year old or the best 23 year old.
Jamie:That's right.
Bob:Because the impact that college free agents are having in the NHL is huge. It's massive. It's bigger than it's ever been before. Right? More late round draft choices are playing in the NHL than ever played before.
Bob:This speaks to player development, physiological development. This speaks to all of that. James, it is a hard argument to win because don't give me the facts when I... The facts have nothing to do with this. Am I going to miss out?
Bob:What am I going to miss out? So it's interesting that you said, Well, 20%. Oh, that means 80% doesn't?
Jamie:That's what I said.
Bob:Let's talk about that 80%, right? So on a 20 player brick team, right? Okay. What is that? 16 players have less or no chance?
Bob:But it's hard and I get it. Puberty is one thing because everything changes after puberty. We know that, right?
Jamie:Oh
Bob:yes. But also the decisions and choices after puberty are really, really important. And there are so many good stories. If the NHL... And it shouldn't be the goal because if it's the goal, that's the problem, right?
Bob:The NHL is what happens if you do everything else right, but there are seven thirty six players in the NHL, 23 times 30, yeah, seven thirty
Jamie:six That's
Scott:a lot.
Bob:In the NHL. There are seven thirty six different stories on how they got there.
Jamie:That's correct. That's exactly And
Bob:so the biggest thing, and I don't try to parent anybody else's child and I don't try to tell people what good parenting looks like. That's not for me to say, but I think it is for me in my position to say we need to make good choices for our own child as a parent because navigating the hockey landscape is difficult and it is one reason why we wanted to put the DL in place is to hopefully make navigating the landscape a little bit easier and a little bit more direct for everybody who has a child, a boy in USA Hockey.
Jamie:Right. And it's interesting, so I was just gonna ask you, what would you say to a parent you know, who has a kid who's 14, 15, who's panicking right now and you know, the DL and about where their kids are gonna be? Because I hear people going, oh my goodness, what if there's a filter down and my kid's gonna get bumped down to a different level? And there's a lot of anxiety right now, you know, out there. Hear it, you know, I don't know if they come up to me because they know we have a podcast, right?
Jamie:But you hear a lot of anxiety about that, about what's gonna happen to my child. It's all over the place, Bob.
Bob:Then make sure your child has fun, and there's a difference between actually being able belonging somewhere and having the label of something, right? Again, I go back to this eighteenth player on the one hundred and fifty ninth ranked team. Okay? Is what's important that we say that player is playing tier one hockey, or is what's important that he's playing at a level where he can get better? Right?
Bob:And maybe that's tier two for a year, and then maybe it's tier one for a year, and maybe it's DL, then maybe it's back to tier one. This is why that exit and entry system is so important. I get the anxiety. I mean, I get the anxiety and I can empathize with the anxiety, but just because we have the jacket doesn't mean we have our son playing at the right level or daughter, we're just talking about boys and the DL, but for any hockey player. And that's so, so important.
Bob:Then going back to something we touched on earlier, fun, fun, Is your child having fun? Fun and passion will be the thing that drives him or her to every level and the next level, and that's what we have to focus on.
Jamie:Yep. Yeah. I agree. Doug Christianson says it all the time. He says, you know, if your kid's not...
Jamie:If they don't love the game, if they're not having fun, once it gets hard, you know, is that is that child gonna wanna pay the price to to do what he needs to do to keep moving forward? Right? And if you're not having fun with it, if it's more like a job, it's probably not gonna be something that they wanna to do. Right?
Bob:That's exactly. And it's hard to your point. Hockey is hard when it gets to the higher levels. So you better be enjoying Right. The
Scott:Yeah. It's it's very hard at peer league too. I had a rough one last night.
Bob:I I didn't see any clips on social media, Scott, so it could have been that. Not not yet.
Scott:I just have... I I... I'm trying to I'm trying to find one or two bright spots. Oh my god. Oh, but this...
Scott:Yeah. Go ahead, James. Was there anything else on your end that you you had on your list?
Jamie:Sure. So I know we... We've covered a lot. Do me a favor. Just touch on the importance of high school hockey, you know, because I know in places like Minnesota, right, it's important.
Jamie:Know we touched on it a little bit, you know, whether or not you could play on a high school team and a DL team, but talk about the importance of high school hockey still throughout the country and prep school hockey also. So the way having
Bob:multiple pathways to get to college and beyond is really important for the American player, right? This is why we have never said the DL is the only pathway. In some parts of the country, the DL may be the most preferred or the most important pathway. In other parts of the country, like Minnesota, high school is clearly preferred and best pathway, right? In that state, out in Massachusetts and New England, prep school.
Bob:So if you've ever seen some of our presentations, we have a slide that has US Junior College, the highest levels in the middle, and then we have these three pathways of tier one DL, prep school and high school that all fall into that, right? All fall into our American pathway of USHL, North American League, and then beyond. Again, this is not an adversarial relationship, this or that. It's what is good for your child at that time and what makes sense for you as a parent. If every parent in The US said, I'm not sending my son somewhere else at 14 and I'm gonna play in my tier one club or in my high school or in my prep school, it'd be a great decision.
Bob:It'd be fantastic because that's what's good for those kids, right? But you know what? There's going to be some really good players in outlying areas in The United States, what we used to call nontraditional, which isn't true anymore. We have no more nontraditional areas in The United States. Isn't that the greatest thing to have?
Jamie:How nice is that?
Bob:Yeah, exactly. But there's going to be somebody in, I don't know, where's Tupelo? Tupelo, Mississippi,
Jamie:Mississippi, yeah. Yeah, there you go, who
Bob:is an incredible athlete and a hockey player, and we don't have good high school hockey, we don't have good prep school hockey, we don't have good DL, and we don't have good tier one there. And for that child, finding that pathway is gonna be very, very important. So this is not us versus them. This is USA Hockey looking at, Hey, if prep school's your right path, good for you, good luck. If high school is your right path, good for you, good luck.
Bob:If tier one in the DL is your right path, good for you, good luck. And as USA Hockey, we hope every single one of you, because every single one of you are important to us, fulfill your potential and reach your dream. That's what we want.
Scott:As you were just talking about that, earlier you were mentioning how you have the new welcome to the parent education piece that's coming online for parents that are new to the game of ice hockey and USA hockey. Do you envision that type of education expanding to the older age groups for parents that maybe, you know, are getting to different, let's say, milestones along the hockey path? Because, you know, you've mentioned a few times just like, you know, what's right for your child, and I'm sure there's plenty of parents out there that I don't know what's right for my child. Like, how do I figure that out? And, you know, a lot of people look to, you know, people around them, and they're just gonna follow a path because Johnny's doing it, but that might not be good for them.
Scott:Do you see USA Hockey continue or going to expand parent education in that regard?
Bob:I didn't until right now.
Jamie:Okay.
Bob:And I just wrote it down, Scott. I'm going to make Nice. Sure
Scott:There we go.
Jamie:All the credit....
Bob:For this idea. And if my colleagues and staff tell me, Bob, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard, you'll be the first to know.
Jamie:I was just going say, there wasn't my idea. It was Scott's idea.
Bob:No, I love that. Man, And this is fantastic, right? And no, we hadn't thought about that. Now we're going to because maybe there is something there. Maybe we need a bigger pulpit to get the word out.
Bob:That's, I appreciate that. Yeah.
Jamie:It's funny. I didn't think about that either until you said that Scott, but I actually think that that Scott makes a very good point, Bob. There's a lot of, like you said, uninformed parents and uninformed people that are giving bad information, and that bad information just gets taken like it's gospel. Right. I I think that, you know, that's funny.
Jamie:I didn't think about this till Scott just said it, but it's so true. If you can help expand the way that you guys get information out there, I can't see how that wouldn't be beneficial.
Bob:Yeah. Right? Yeah. 100%.
Scott:There's a lot of it. It's like bro science in the gym. You know? People that are just training because the biggest guy in the gym is doing one thing, and they'll just do it themselves. And, yeah, it's it's...
Scott:You know, and and and, again, just speaking, you know, for myself, I was just... You know, we're just up at a tournament in Massachusetts and and just watching, you know, some of the higher end tier one players play, and it's easy. It's really easy to see some high end kids that are at the younger ages be like, I want that for my kid. How do I get that for my kid? And then you start asking questions when in fact, you know what?
Scott:It's like, that that... That's not necessarily going to your kid any good. So, yeah, I know, at least for me, as I think about this, lot of times, I'm like, I don't know what the best, you know, what the right next move is. And, you know, it's it's it's an interesting thing to talk about, and I think, yeah, anything that USA Hockey could do to, you know, you know, to to help with that would be be beneficial for parents.
Bob:Yeah. No. I love it. It's awesome. It's
Jamie:awesome. Bob, is there anything else that you... That we didn't touch on that you think that the parents should know about the DL or USA Hockey? Or were they before we let you go?
Bob:No, I appreciate being on and our relationship and your support of what we're And for parents and listeners, just please get on the FAQ, get on the website, and get your questions answered because they're important questions to us. And as I said, every single player, every single parent is important to us and we want them to have the right information. So I appreciate my time and good seeing you guys again. Thank you.
Scott:Likewise, Bob. Always a pleasure.
Jamie:And we'll put the USA Hockey links in the show notes here, we'll put them on our socials so everybody knows kind of where to find the FAQs and stuff like that. Awesome.
Bob:Well, you. Awesome.
Scott:Bob, thank you so much.
Jamie:Appreciate it. Bye bye. We'll see you soon.
Scott:Take care.
Jamie:Talk soon. All right, everybody. Welcome back from our awesome interview with Bob Mancini, buddy. Whoo. Man, third time's a charm for Mr.
Jamie:Mancini.
Scott:Yeah. First time was also. But, yeah, it was it was great to hear more about the DL and just, know, get some questions answered, get a little more perspective on what's going on out there and, know, definitely made some points that were just like, yep, makes sense. Specifically, just about like travel costs. Now, again, I I don't know enough about the whole situation to like really say with confidence, but like, yeah, like like teams in the Southwest, for example, they're gonna have heavy travel schedules that include flights if you're a tier one team anyway.
Scott:So it's not like they're going from no flights to now all of these flights. Right? So not... I don't know. I thought that was like, you know, a point well taken again, but there's there's probably, you know, arguments on both sides that I I don't don't know fully at this point.
Scott:But that was something that obviously stood out because I know cost is a big concern. Yeah. You know? And also, you know, just how there are certain charters that didn't necessary or certain teams that didn't get designate organizations that didn't get designations, and that expansion looks like it's inevitable. So, yep.
Scott:You know, yeah. Don't know, anything in particular for you that you took away?
Jamie:You know, I get the whole like people that are like, Oh my God, there's gonna be all this travel. There's all this travel now.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:You know? I mean, when when Don played high end, you know, tier one, we were going to Chicago a couple times a year. We were going to Boston, like, like every other weekend. You know what I mean? Like, it was no different.
Scott:You know
Jamie:what I mean? Like, that to me was no different. So I don't think it's gonna change much there. Like Bob said, they're doing it now anyway. So what's the difference?
Jamie:You know? So that I get that part. You know, what I thought was interesting was the... Which I thought, and I kind of mentioned it during the interview, figured the way to kind of not fix the watered down AAA, because you and I have talked for a little while now. We've said that that single A hockey is watered down, AA hockey is watered down, AAA hockey is watered down.
Jamie:Right? So this putting some downward pressure on the pyramid, right, should push some kids down into maybe where they really belong. Right? Sure. And then maybe you don't have that kid.
Jamie:Listen, you're still gonna have that kid who's who's the the twelfth forward on a DL team or the tenth or whatever... However many forwards they take. Right? Yep. Or the seventh or the seventh defenseman.
Scott:There's always gonna be a worst player.
Jamie:A worst three player, a body, a third, whatever. There's always gonna be that. Right? Right. You know?
Jamie:But but maybe it pushes kids down to where they can really kind of develop, and maybe it's gonna make, you know, some of the parents that just put their kid in, you know, AAA hockey because they want to say their kid plays AAA hockey, maybe that person gets kind of put where they're supposed to be, and that kid develops better than he would, you know, playing in maybe a spot that he doesn't belong.
Scott:Right. And that, you know, that comes back to something that DL or no DL still, you know, parents should be trying to put their kid in, you know, an environment where they're gonna get, you know, the most pop touches, the most, you know, you you know, game situations, you know, to to help with their development. And, you know, yeah, I guess, you know, the DL is like the... I don't know. Maybe maybe in some people's eyes, it's like the new triple a or call it quadruple a for
Jamie:people to say. Wanna call it.
Scott:Right? But, yeah, you know, it it obviously makes makes certain things, you know, more competitive. It'll be interesting to see, like, how many kids on a team, a DL team are gonna be from out of state. Right? So that's that's something.
Scott:But, you know, ultimately, the the cream typically always rises to the top, and you're gonna have the best players typically playing on the best teams, and that's no different now than it's gonna be in the future. And, you know, it's it's just... I think, you know, I I think parents are just seeing this come out, and they're just... Their knee jerk's reaction is like, you know, if if I'm not on it, I'm on the outside looking in and, you know, my kid is not gonna have the same kind of opportunities to play, call it college or whatever. But then there's, like Bob was saying, also, there's multiple entry and exit points as well.
Scott:So... You know, and like you made the point about how many players in the NHL are, you know, like, t t... NTDP alumni. It's not everyone, but, I mean, there's a lot probably from a percentage standpoint. But nonetheless, there's there's there's plenty of different paths.
Scott:Right? So can't give too much too much weight to this.
Jamie:No. I don't think so either. I think a lot of people are freaking out about it. I don't see a reason to freak out about it. You know?
Jamie:I think it's another it's another pathway. You know? And I I didn't tell Bob this, you know, when we were on with him, you know, but, you know, I I was thinking about having Dominic try out for a DL team next year, and now I've actually changed my mind, you know, because I... You know, if we do anything, I'll have him just try out for a triple a team, a regular triple a team, and go... And have him go play some high school hockey because I actually want him to play high school hockey.
Jamie:You know? I want him to experience the high school hockey. You know? Sure. You know?
Jamie:So it kinda changed, you know, my, you know, I think the path that Dominic's gonna be on. Know? Interesting. So listen. If he really wants to try out for for one of the DL teams, maybe we will.
Jamie:But I think Dominic actually wants to play, you know, some high school hockey.
Scott:Sure.
Jamie:You know? So I'm just gonna say every path is different. Right?
Scott:No doubt. And there's definitely... You know, you you played DL. There's definitely, you know, some drawbacks there as well. I mean, you know, like you were saying about playing high school hockey and the game mode and, like, all that stuff.
Scott:And, you know, people struggle again, but kids are also struggling with that with, you know, the current landscape balancing two different teams that's... You know, if you're playing a full season club team and, you know, in your high school, if there's, you know, prioritization that happens, you're not getting the best version of certain players because they just came back from playing, you know Another practice. Another practice, another game, whatever it is. So I don't know, man. Like, I just think the unknowns is, you know, not knowing what this really looks like and how this is gonna shake out is, you know, is, you know, is setting off alarm bells and understandably so.
Scott:But, you know, I... If nothing if nothing else is interesting to see, it'll be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out. And and, you know, I I hope... You know, I think one of the discouraging things is when you have high end teams in your neighborhood. When I say your neighborhood, like, I'm not necessarily meaning literally in your exact neighborhood, but like in your state or in, like, you know, your half of the state, whatever it is.
Scott:You know? And and you see that, like, as the kids get older, and we see that we see that here. Right? You might have a kid that's played ten years for, you know, the North Jersey avalanche. But then when it comes to 16 new premier, like, they don't even get a sniff.
Scott:You know? And it's like, I think that piece, I... Is understandably frustrating for families that are local, that are staying with the club, and, you know, they just... They don't have... In reality, they don't have a chance ultimately to play at the highest level at that organization.
Scott:And I think that that part will be interesting to see how it plays out. You know?
Jamie:You know, I mean, I I don't think there was ever any loyalty with any of these clubs, you know, and this is probably gonna be very... Now that you can really stretch out across state lines
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:You know, and and use some sort of like an academy style with a with a billet, you know, portion if if they have that. Yeah. I I think you're gonna see kids all over the place. I really do. I think you're gonna see kids all over the place.
Jamie:Yeah. And just because you don't make a d l team, I don't think you have to worry as a parent. You know? I mean, there's plenty of paths for you to be on. This is a whole another path, you know, for kids to be on because every kid develops at a different pace, and I think that you can go in and out of the DL teams, you know, depending on the birth year, I think it's pretty good.
Jamie:Kinda like that. Know, so I think parents should get anxiety over it, I really don't, you know? I also don't see, when this kind of first kind of, you know, came to the forefront, I think a lot of people, you you see a lot of the the stuff on online, like, oh, this is another way for USA Hockey to make money. I don't really see that. I'm not I'm not really I'm not really seeing that.
Jamie:Are you?
Scott:I mean, I I I don't I don't really have a good grasp on, like, the business side of of all this stuff. Look. I I I I think we'd be foolish to think that any organization is gonna put forward a model that isn't profitable or tries to be profitable.
Jamie:Yeah. I didn't say that. Didn't say they weren't gonna be profitable.
Scott:Well, well, sorry. Then maybe I misunderstood. You were saying
Jamie:But I'm seeing how USA hockey is gonna make money. You know, everybody's saying that USA hockey is gonna... Is just another money grab from USA hockey. I'm not not sure I'm seeing that.
Scott:Right. Well, I mean, that's that's... But where where am I getting confused? I I would... Don't you think USA Hockey would would would put something out that...
Scott:You're saying that USA Hockey is not gonna make any money. You don't see how US... They're made. The organizations will make money, but you don't see how USA Hockey will make money. Is that what you're saying?
Jamie:So people were saying that this is another money grab from USA Hockey. Yep. And I'm not really seeing how USA Hockey is going to profit off this.
Scott:Right. And and I guess what I'm saying is like, look. Again, I don't know anything about, like, the way
Jamie:We should look into it more.
Scott:Work. But, like, look, if you would think think... This is... Like, the money the money to to to put together something as comprehensive as this that's that is ultimately reshaping the landscape for the the most elite hockey players within this country. Right?
Scott:You would think that took a lot of resources to do. You... Those, you know, money to pay these people has to come from somewhere. You know? And ultimately, what?
Jamie:To pay who? Well, I mean, for
Scott:for USA Hockey. For USA Hockey. I mean, USA Hockey... Look. Like, again, all I'm saying is I I I don't know the...
Scott:Like, how all these financial things work, but, like, how how how... The... They they need... The money needs to come for this, like, research and development, let's call it, to put together a DL. Like, quite
Jamie:like Well, sure. I mean, I think... But that comes from USA hockey tuition. You know? That's that's anything.
Jamie:That's any research and development, whether it's a new refing program, whether it's the DL, is that any different than what they've done for the last however many years?
Scott:No. No. Maybe
Jamie:I'm wrong. You know?
Scott:No. Listen. Listen. I I may... Maybe maybe we're saying the same thing differently, or maybe I'm just not...
Scott:Look. I I don't see it as a money grab. If that... If that's, like, I don't see, you know, like, I don't know. Saying.
Scott:Right? Like, I don't know how, like, you know, what what... What's coming out of, you know, you know, people's pockets, parents of players. I don't know where, like, USA Hockey is directly taking money out of their pocket.
Jamie:That's what I'm saying. I'm not finding how USA Hockey is making money on this.
Scott:Well
Jamie:Had a messy.
Scott:But to say that USA Hockey isn't making money through the organizations or whatever dues or whatever they have to buck up to be a DL designation, I mean, I don't think USA Hockey is getting that out for free. Do you?
Jamie:We should find that out. I I wouldn't think so. I wouldn't think that there's... Maybe there is. Maybe there
Scott:is money
Jamie:coming from that.
Scott:I'm not sure. But we
Jamie:have find that out then.
Scott:So if
Jamie:you if that is the case, maybe that's a different story.
Scott:Right. So, like, if this is an additional cost for an organization to be a... Know, if at the end of the day, the... A hockey... Youth hockey organization now has a greater cost of doing business
Jamie:Mhmm.
Scott:They're going to need to, you know, collect more money somewhere, you would think, as opposed to just losing money on this... I'm... Go ahead.
Jamie:So if that's the case, yes, then
Scott:You would tuition would go up.
Jamie:You would think tuition would go up to cover that. Right? Because if your costs go up, right, I mean, then obviously you're gonna pass that along to your customers, right? Correct. So let's find out if that's true.
Jamie:I'm not sure if that's true.
Scott:Right. And I think the other thing, right, is that like not every age level requires the same amount of resources to operate. So it's like whatever the tuitions are, you know, to whatever extent the, know, like younger age groups subsidize the older age groups.
Jamie:Well, I was just gonna say that. Don't know. That happens in any building where the younger kids subsidize the older kids.
Scott:Right. They... You know, there's a market price for what it pay... What it costs to, like, play. But, know, at the end of the day, you're looking at the organization as a whole and looking at your, you know, your p and l, and you're like, okay.
Scott:What's my top line all in to cover my costs? And they don't really... You know, you don't really care necessarily if it comes from mites or it comes from midgets.
Jamie:Right? I don't... Correct. I don't think you do. And and other people were saying like, you know, wow.
Jamie:You know, these organizations are gonna lose money cause they're losing like two triple a teams. Well, they may be losing some triple a teams in in the 15 you and the and the you. Right? Because you can't double dip. You have to have a d...
Jamie:You can only have a d l in those birth years. You can't have a d l and a triple a team. Right? And I was saying to somebody is they... The organizations will make that up with, like, a squirt a team or a squirt b team or Pee wee b team or a Pee a team.
Jamie:Right? They will make that up someplace.
Scott:But but isn't it just like like us... Like swapping one out for another? Yes. Like, the... It...
Scott:I the
Jamie:I think it is.
Scott:It... It's like it's like
Bob:I I think it's zero
Scott:on that. You lose a triple a.
Jamie:I I think it's a wash. Right. Right? You you lose a triple a, but you add a DL. I think it is.
Jamie:Right? Yeah. You know? Which you
Scott:can probably charge more money for, but you're also probably gonna have to dedicate more resources to.
Jamie:I I think that's true. And I I think the tuition... I think we read that tuition was gonna go up. We should ask Bob that. That's something we should have him back on because we should go back.
Jamie:We should actually go into the money part. I I think that would be actually a fascinating thing if we go into the money part of this whole thing. Yeah. Now that we kinda know the logistics, maybe we kinda dive into the money piece.
Scott:Well, look. You know? So just just because I play men's over at at Ice House where the North Jersey Avalanche play, you know, since the... Since we started talking about the DL, you know, over... And look.
Scott:Some of the stuff... You know, some, like, whatever, you know, like, upgrades, you know, were were probably overdue or they they needed to do them. But, you know, they have... Like, there's new scoreboards. It looks like the live barn cameras are new.
Scott:They have... They're redoing the the front, like, you know, like that front desk when you first walk in.
Bob:Mhmm.
Scott:That's got some nicer wood paneling back there. They had to have a mobile app coming out. They have an academy now.
Jamie:They still don't have they still don't have a fucking ceiling.
Bob:What? Still don't
Scott:have a ceiling. Ceiling. What do you mean?
Jamie:You have a... Each... Next time you're in there, walk in and just look up.
Scott:Oh, when you first walked in the lobby? Yeah. Oh, well, I mean
Jamie:They have the grid for a drop down ceiling with no drop down... No tiles.
Scott:Oh. I don't
Jamie:think I think the idea was for them to put a ceiling in, and they
Scott:never did it. Well, look, I mean... But either way I
Jamie:don't know what Jameed you're saying. Just maybe put a fucking ceiling in, just so But
Scott:my my point is is that, like, you see these upgrades happening, and I wonder to what extent it's just they're overdue and they were gonna do them anyway, or how much of it's tied to, like, you know, the... This, like, DL and and making sure that they have, like, you know, the... A comparable level of... Oh, I don't know what the right word is. Like, facility, I guess.
Scott:I don't know. I don't know. Just putting it out I
Jamie:mean, listen. You know, the the teams that got, you know, DL teams in our area, they all need repairs. The Rockets the Rockets restaurant is fucking atrocious.
Scott:I gotta say Bridgewater is pretty rough.
Jamie:Well, that's what I'm saying, and they have a DL team. So, like, you know, are are they gonna start putting money into their building? Fuck no. There's no way. You know?
Jamie:The dude has no interest in putting money in that building. He's got a huge building, and he... And it's like, there's no way that guy's putting money into that building.
Scott:That's a that's a really weird building. Yes. Between the lighting, the vacant space, the fucking the cafe... Like, just... I don't know.
Scott:Just... I find it odd.
Jamie:I I get it. It's misused. It's not used right. It's not used well. Yeah.
Jamie:But how many rinks you walk into that aren't used right?
Scott:Lots. Fair. But I I mean, I feel like you walk into Sporto, and you're just like, ugh. This place, you know. It's just a shithole.
Scott:This this is this is right. You know? But then you walk into Bridgewater, and it's like, I don't know. It just strikes you as
Jamie:a It's not as much as a shithole, but it's a misused... A lot of misused This is weird. Yeah. Anyway. Yes.
Jamie:It is weird. Yeah. But listen, we're gonna find out. I'm curious to see how the DL evolves as everything kinda moves forward. They're gonna start tweaking things.
Jamie:Alright. Stuff that doesn't work, they're tweak, I think. You know? And we'll see kinda when everything comes out in the wash what it looks like.
Scott:Yep. There's definitely gonna be some shuffling. That's for sure. Players.
Jamie:I think so too. Organizations.
Scott:Because you're gonna... You're, like, you know, you're gonna have high end kids that are at different organizations that are gonna wanna play DL,
Bob:and Correct.
Scott:They can't get that... You can't get that anywhere. Right? So Right.
Jamie:You need to go to certain places. So people are gonna... Listen. I would think those tryouts are gonna be pretty packed. You know?
Jamie:I would think
Scott:an interesting question. Do you even think... Like, what do you... You you think, like, they already are picking... I mean, they're clearly already...
Scott:I'm not clear. I shouldn't say clearly, but you think
Jamie:They do.
Scott:That they're already making offers to people.
Jamie:I have no fucking idea, dude. They must. I don't know the answer to that.
Scott:You wanna lock that shit down as soon as you can.
Jamie:I mean No? It happens all the time. So wouldn't shock me. You know?
Scott:But this is a little different because, like, there's gonna be tons of high end kids that... I shouldn't say tons, but there's high end kids that that they're curt... Like, there's now a better... A quote, unquote, a better alternative to what they're currently doing.
Jamie:Better? Is it better, or is it just different?
Scott:Well, okay. Fair. But let's just... Okay. I'm just just putting this out there.
Scott:Let's take clubs like, I don't know, Philadelphia Hockey Club. Right? BHC. Or you take, like... I'm thinking, like, teams more south...
Scott:Or, like, the Colonials, for example. Mhmm. Like, what's that gonna do to their program?
Jamie:Right? These are teams that It's gonna it's gonna pull kids away from their triple a team.
Scott:But that's what I'm saying. So, if if you if you're
Jamie:No question about it.
Scott:So, if you if you're playing at the Colonials, right, then you've got three different organizations that are vying for your your kid, in theory.
Jamie:Right. The three DL teams
Scott:in this The three DL teams. So, I I would have to think these conversations started over the summer.
Jamie:Maybe not. I don't think... If they knew they were getting the DL designation, then yes. Right?
Scott:No. No. Right. Not not before the announcement. But...
Jamie:Yeah. Meanwhile That's
Scott:what I would think.
Jamie:Meanwhile, I'm gonna announce right now that Monday, because he just texted me, Monday, you and I are interviewing the one and only Scott Gomez.
Scott:Oh, dude. This is gonna be unreal. New Jersey
Jamie:devil's own. Scottie Gomez just texted me and said, yep. We're good for Monday.
Scott:Let's go.
Jamie:So Scottie Gomez... And you heard it here, folks. Scottie Gomez coming out with us Monday.
Scott:Dude, if you haven't listened or watched or both the the... His two interviews on Chiclets that are
Jamie:like I haven't. You keep telling me they're really good.
Scott:Dude, they're excellent.
Jamie:Yeah? I'm gonna go back
Scott:and You gotta you gotta watch them.
Jamie:Yeah. They're from a couple years ago? Yeah.
Scott:Yeah. I don't know the dates, but there was a... There was... You know, he was on, and then he came back on, and both were phenomenal.
Jamie:Yeah. They're good. Meanwhile, so speaking of Scottie speaking of Scottie Gomez and, like, the New Jersey devils, can we talk about Connor fucking Allebuck?
Scott:Yo. Let's switch gears. Yeah. Allebuck. Bro.
Scott:This is this is wonderful news for the Devils, to say the least.
Jamie:Wonderful? That's like putting him so super mildly.
Scott:Wait. Do they say when when he's gonna get his... When he's gonna be back on the ice? Like, is he down at... Is he with the AHL team?
Jamie:I don't think he's with the AHL team. No.
Scott:He said he hasn't had a training camp. You don't think he might... They might not throw
Bob:him down there for
Jamie:I'm pretty sure he's not in... No. I'm gonna Yeah. Say I don't think he's playing any AHL games. My guess is he's...
Jamie:No. My guess is he's in Jersey. My guess is he's... I'm pretty sure they're in Dallas tonight, if I'm not mistaken. They're they're doing like a West Coast swing tonight.
Jamie:I think it's Dallas Dallas, the Kings. Is it Anaheim? They're doing a... I'm gonna look it up right now as we speak, but I'm pretty sure the devils are on a West Coast swing right now, and they start tonight in Dallas. And...
Jamie:Yeah. So they're in they're in Dallas tonight. So they're Dallas. Let's see here. So the devils are in Dallas tonight.
Jamie:Tomorrow, they're in Colorado. Oh, wow. Friday, they're in... At the golden nights in Vegas, and then they come home next Tuesday, November 3, and that's the Oilers at home.
Scott:Oh, so that's gonna be his first game.
Jamie:I I'm feeling that is going to be his first game.
Scott:Then let me ask you this. Do you really want his first game back to be against McDavid and dry weather?
Jamie:Yeah. Sure. Why not?
Scott:I I I mean, look, obviously, he's a gold... You know, a medal winning goalie. He's one of... He's the... If not the best goalie in the world.
Scott:So, like, I get it. It's not like you have to, like, baby the guy. But at the same time, it's like... I don't know. It was...
Scott:I was listening to Chicklins, and they were saying how I think when Swayman, like, held out and, you know, when he missed training camp, I think he had one of his worst seasons, if not his worst season as a Bruin. Listen. Not to say that that's, like, you know, gonna Listen.
Jamie:It's very possible. Right? It's very possible. I know he did his own thing, and he had NHL shooters kinda shooting on him. Listen.
Jamie:We're gonna find out.
Scott:Let me ask you this. Yeah. Would would... If if if you were him, if you were in his shoes, would you really want your first game back to be against the Oilers and McDavid, or would you want, like, a a couple reps under your belt before then? Mean, seriously.
Jamie:Listen. The stars are no slouches. Right?
Scott:No. No. I'm I'm... I I totally... I get it, but just there's gonna be like No.
Jamie:I mean, Vegas is no slouch. The abs are no slouch. I mean, we... It's like pick your poison, dude. Stars, abs, knights, or Oilers.
Scott:No. I understand that. But currently, Connor McDavid is, like, on another level first ripping himself. Yes. Like, I'm just saying, like, if...
Scott:Okay. So if you have to pick your poison, are you gonna take, I I mean, I don't know that I would take the Oilers as the game I want as my first back.
Jamie:Listen, who knows? Right? I don't know. I I... Listen, it's gonna it's gonna...
Jamie:I don't know what kind of game shape he's
Scott:in. Fine. Who... What game would you take? If if you had to choose if you had to choose one of those West Coast games to be the one you you play before
Jamie:Before before the Oilers? Is that what you're saying?
Scott:I'm assuming... Right. Like, what like, what game do you say? Like, alright. I want in starting then.
Jamie:So I would I would... I... If I if I was running the show over there, I would put him in against the Vegas Golden Knights Friday, October 30. I would give... I would let him rest against the Oilers, and I'd have him against the Blues on Thursday, November 5, coming back after
Scott:the Oilers. Or you can just... He can also just wait until the Blues game comes around.
Jamie:It's possible. You know? I wanna see him now. I wanna see him tonight against Starz. That's what I wanna see.
Scott:Yeah. I I mean, if if it... I... On one hand, I'd wanna, like, just... Let's just get in there as soon as possible just to start shaking off any rust.
Jamie:You know what I mean? Absolutely, dude.
Scott:And so... But, like, again, I don't know with that position if like you really, you know, you get in as soon as you can and it doesn't go well for whatever reason. If you're just... You're not setting yourself up for success. You know?
Scott:I I don't know. I don't know enough about this stuff. But if it was me, I'd be like, dude, get in there as soon as possible. Just let's
Jamie:So so... Oh, hold on. Hold on. I'm reading on dailyfaceoff.com.
Scott:Playing today.
Jamie:Connor Hellebuck will make his debut for the Devils and start in Dallas on Tuesday night.
Scott:So
Jamie:Tonight. Tonight, buddy.
Scott:Yo. Let's go. I'm watching
Bob:that game.
Jamie:In an hour. In an hour, he will be off. Let's go. See? So there's your answer.
Scott:Sonny Maiden and I think alike.
Jamie:There is your answer. He's playing tonight, so so much for being down in the AHL, so much for needing to shake off Rust. He is is being thrown into the fire, and I'm making the prediction right now. Quinn Hughes will be a New Jersey devil at the end of the season once free agent starts. I'm saying it right here.
Jamie:There's no fucking
Scott:chase. Foregone
Jamie:he resigns in Minnesota. Sorry, folks. It ain't happening. That's my... And you can all tell me that I suck and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong, but I do not think that Quinn Hughes is not coming to the devil's to play with his brothers.
Jamie:No fucking way.
Scott:I don't think... I've never I've never heard that expression, you'll eat crow. You mean like actually like crow... Like the bird, crow meat?
Jamie:You've never heard that you've never heard that expression?
Scott:No.
Jamie:You've never heard I'll eat crow?
Scott:No. Are you talking about the bird?
Jamie:I am. You've you've never heard that?
Scott:It's not... No. I've also never had crow either.
Jamie:I mean, I I I
Scott:don't I guess think it's not good.
Jamie:I don't think many people have had crow. I'm assuming it's probably Because it's not Assuming it's probably not good. Right? But
Scott:I guess.
Jamie:But... Yeah. So if I'm wrong, you can all tell me that I suck and you're fucking stupid and and rightfully so. But I am I am pretty sure that Quinn is coming. I I thought I think...
Jamie:I thought he was coming regardless of Hellebuck. But now that Hellebuck is is is coming or is here, I think Quinn is a foregone conclusion for the devils. Yeah. And they have the cap space.
Scott:Yep. It'll happen. I don't think I don't think anyone's really questioning that at this point.
Bob:I'm being honest.
Jamie:I'm running into a lot of people that are still questioning it around here. Really? They're like, nah. He's gonna resign in Minnesota. I was like, why would he resign in Minnesota?
Jamie:Why would he do that?
Scott:Unless he, like, unless he unless he's, yeah. No. No.
Jamie:I mean, these guys have a shelf life, Quinn, Jack, and Luke, of however many years they're gonna play. So if you wanna play together, if that's a dream of of you guys. Right? That's a dream you guys wanna try to play together, you can't not take that, and you try to win a cup. And I think the devils will have years with all of them together.
Jamie:Hella Buck's like thirty three. So I think you have, like, a three year window for Jack's contract's up, and is is '36, '37. Well, that's fucking three years ish. Three, four years.
Scott:Listen. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Jamie:Should be fun, buddy. Should be fun.
Scott:Anything else?
Jamie:Yes. So, folks, if you made it this far with us, do me a favor. Please go, leave us a review. Press pause right now before we get off and leave us a review. It is so hard to get reviews.
Jamie:Go review us on whatever platform you're on, whether it's YouTube, Spotify, Apple, any of the podcast apps, you can find us anywhere. Wherever you listen to us, please give us a review. They're so hard to get, and they help us out so much with the algorithms. So please go do that. We really would appreciate it.
Jamie:Five stars is the only ranking that you should be giving us. That's the appropriate appropriate number
Scott:of stars.
Jamie:Right. But honestly, you know, all kidding aside, if you really like what we're doing here, please go give us a a review. It really helps. And we really appreciate all of our listeners, even our Long Island listeners. We appreciate...
Jamie:We appreciate everybody.
Scott:Especially Donnie.
Jamie:Donnie. Thank you, Donnie. Appreciate you, following us. We really appreciate everybody that follows us on on Instagram and on our socials. We couldn't do this without you guys, so thank you very much.
Jamie:It's much appreciated.
Scott:Yep. Agreed. Likewise. Thank you, Juan. Thank you all.
Scott:And until the next episode, senor.
Jamie:And you and I have a trip this weekend.
Scott:Oh. Oh. The following weekend.
Jamie:Should we should we... What? Go ahead. You tell them... Tell everybody where we're gonna be.
Jamie:Alright. So this weekend last
Scott:episode. We're going up to Albany as our our centralized point between RPI and Union, and we're gonna be doing two barn tours over there. Gonna catch some games. So that's something that we're looking forward to to get some, you know, some more ECAC coverage and bring to you some more, you know, on on location content. So that's gonna be coming up.
Scott:And then after that, the following weekend, we're gonna be heading out to Chicago for the CCM World invite. Super excited to be a part of that. We're gonna be setting up on Thursday. We'll be there for the opening night, the opening event. And then from there, we will be at one of the rinks that's hosting, and we'll be on location looking to talk to parents, coaches, players, and just, you know, continue to talk hockey, continue to hear and learn from, you know, all of our all of our listeners, the parents, and, you know, and just continue to bring, you know, more more information to our listeners from people that are actually going through it.
Scott:People that are in the trenches, homie.
Jamie:That's right. So thank you to the ECAC for for having us out up at RPI this Friday and union on Saturday. And thank you to two hundred by eighty five for having us out at the CCM World Invite. We're looking forward to it. It should be a lot of fun both weekends.
Scott:Absolutely.
Jamie:Alright, buddy.
Scott:Alright.
Jamie:Number 90 in the books. In the books. We'll see you on ninety one.
Scott:Yes, sir.
Jamie:Later, everybody.
Bob:See you. See you.