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Conversations about marketing and business. Hosted by Dave Gerhardt (Founder of Exit Five, Former CMO). Join the top community for B2B marketers at exitfive.com
Dave [0:00:01]: You're listening to The Dave Gerhardt Show.
Dave [0:00:02]: Okay.
Dave [0:00:17]: Alright.
Dave [0:00:18]: This is exciting because I asked Louis to come on the pod in November, and then I booked it foolishly the same day that I was having my hip surgery.
Dave [0:00:27]: Which man fucking this guy making me tear up.
Dave [0:00:30]: I'm watching your talk from the marketing meetup up this morning, like, have my coffee.
Louis [0:00:34]: You're trying
Dave [0:00:35]: to get my mind right for you, and I I gotta sit through your cancer story, and I'm like, Jesus.
Dave [0:00:39]: I was not prepared for that.
Louis [0:00:41]: Oh, I'm sorry to make your feet of subs.
Louis [0:00:42]: You feel okay?
Dave [0:00:44]: Yeah.
Dave [0:00:44]: I'm good.
Dave [0:00:45]: I should be.
Dave [0:00:46]: I should be okay.
Dave [0:00:47]: I'll see if I can find what you drink to do...
Louis [0:00:50]: Then you have your hip surgery.
Louis [0:00:50]: Oh, my god.
Louis [0:00:51]: Who you?
Louis [0:00:52]: You.
Dave [0:00:54]: So I'm excited to have you on.
Dave [0:00:56]: You know, I love the lens of the stuff that you talk about.
Dave [0:00:59]: Because I think we share a common fondness of the timeless stuff in marketing, and I think the more time goes on.
Dave [0:01:07]: It's funny how that stuff seems to be even more true because, you know, we're deep in this Ai wave right now and everyone's telling me that everything is gonna change forever, and then, like, I, you know, I watched your stuff this morning and you wrote a great book last year, and I'm like, yeah, this is the stuff.
Dave [0:01:21]: And what's funny, man is anytime we talk about this stuff with B2Bmarketers.
Dave [0:01:26]: They're always like, Okay.
Dave [0:01:28]: This is great.
Dave [0:01:29]: But I wanna a B to b marketing example, And I'm like, yeah.
Dave [0:01:31]: I but we're missing the whole point here that anyway.
Dave [0:01:34]: So so give me your introduction of yourself.
Dave [0:01:36]: So you you worked in Saas for years, but now you kinda do your own thing.
Dave [0:01:39]: How do you talk about yourself?
Louis [0:01:41]: It depends on who I'm talking to.
Louis [0:01:43]: But, yeah, I usually, I'm a dad, book order, as you said, the market husband, a bowel cancer survivor, very proud of that one, recovering French man as well.
Louis [0:01:53]: So it's not easy to be in recovery, but I think a wiring recovery for that.
Louis [0:01:58]: Like, being French is has so much baggage.
Louis [0:02:02]: It helped to see the world for where it actually is.
Louis [0:02:06]: When you raised in France, you believe that everything about France is the best thing in the world, the food, the education system, and then you leave somewhere else and you realize, food is okay, but it's quite greasy.
Louis [0:02:19]: And the education system is actually quite bad and it's anywhere.
Louis [0:02:24]: So anyway, it's just...
Louis [0:02:25]: You know, I've been living in Ireland for fifteen years now.
Louis [0:02:27]: So I see my flaws and so I'm trying to recover.
Louis [0:02:31]: But I think something you haven't said yet, the fact that I'll send you something to pray for this.
Louis [0:02:37]: Right?
Louis [0:02:37]: Yes.
Louis [0:02:37]: So I would like you to open box number one.
Louis [0:02:40]: Okay for me.
Louis [0:02:41]: So I send you that over the post.
Dave [0:02:43]: So so for anybody that's listening.
Dave [0:02:44]: If you go over to Youtube, I can show you this, but very mysteriously.
Dave [0:02:48]: He messaged me a couple weeks ago I said hey, you're gonna get a package, do not open it until we record our podcast.
Dave [0:02:54]: There's like, a funny psychological lesson in that It's, like, because you told me not to open it.
Dave [0:02:59]: Like, I wanted to open this like, five times.
Dave [0:03:01]: And my kids like kids hut.
Dave [0:03:04]: So...
Dave [0:03:04]: Okay.
Dave [0:03:04]: So I have this.
Louis [0:03:06]: So it's big cardboard box with a few packages in it, that are wrapped in this kind of gold wrapping.
Louis [0:03:12]: And I've numbered them.
Louis [0:03:14]: Is that number one?
Louis [0:03:15]: They're not numbered.
Louis [0:03:16]: They are numbered.
Louis [0:03:17]: There's little numbers that has to be.
Dave [0:03:20]: Oh I got you.
Dave [0:03:21]: I got you.
Louis [0:03:22]: So number one to start with.
Louis [0:03:23]: It's create content for the podcast.
Louis [0:03:25]: I'm gonna comment as you go.
Louis [0:03:28]: So he's going through each package, so he's reading the numbers and trying to find number one.
Louis [0:03:32]: And
Dave [0:03:34]: okay.
Dave [0:03:34]: I got number one.
Louis [0:03:36]: Okay.
Louis [0:03:36]: So we're gonna open number one.
Louis [0:03:37]: We can hear the wrapping.
Louis [0:03:41]: It's a good a...
Louis [0:03:42]: Oh my...
Dave [0:03:43]: It's like Asm asmr for podcasting right now?
Dave [0:03:45]: Yeah.
Dave [0:03:46]: Kinda smells nice.
Louis [0:03:49]: Don't smell it.
Louis [0:03:49]: That's weird.
Louis [0:03:50]: It's not a candle.
Dave [0:03:56]: Okay.
Dave [0:03:56]: I got number one.
Louis [0:03:58]: But is it?
Louis [0:03:58]: Now, but what describe it?
Dave [0:04:04]: It looks like looks like something you'd see in a doctor's office.
Louis [0:04:09]: Right.
Louis [0:04:09]: Right.
Louis [0:04:10]: What is the black thing there?
Louis [0:04:12]: What is the little tool there?
Dave [0:04:14]: Is this like a endo?
Louis [0:04:17]: It's a colonoscopy.
Louis [0:04:17]: It's a
Dave [0:04:19]: colonoscopy.
Dave [0:04:19]: So this is is this in fact an anus?
Dave [0:04:22]: Yes.
Dave [0:04:23]: Okay.
Dave [0:04:24]: Alright.
Dave [0:04:24]: So look, I...
Dave [0:04:26]: You know, it wasn't dramatically off.
Dave [0:04:28]: You're like, no.
Dave [0:04:28]: It's an eyeball.
Louis [0:04:29]: Well, no.
Louis [0:04:30]: That's right.
Louis [0:04:31]: It was...
Louis [0:04:31]: Yes.
Louis [0:04:32]: Okay.
Louis [0:04:32]: Anyway.
Louis [0:04:33]: So that's the first package for you.
Louis [0:04:35]: I think it's a good segue into, like, mentioning cancer briefly.
Louis [0:04:38]: For reasons, one, because I think it connects with marketing in the weird way and two because I've gotten an emails, messages from folks thanking me for talking about it openly.
Louis [0:04:48]: Sure.
Louis [0:04:49]: Because that was the trigger for them to go, get checked because they have been putting it up four years.
Louis [0:04:54]: Some of them said, yeah, they found multiple polyps that I could have become cancers and stuff like that.
Louis [0:05:01]: So it's important I thing to talk about that stuff.
Louis [0:05:03]: So you have in front of you in your hands a mini colonoscopy equipment.
Dave [0:05:10]: So right now, I'm gonna give myself a colonoscopy on the podcast.
Dave [0:05:13]: Is is that your idea.
Louis [0:05:16]: Well, yes.
Louis [0:05:17]: That's...
Louis [0:05:18]: No.
Louis [0:05:18]: That's crazy is the
Dave [0:05:20]: because you mentioned even in going to my doctor.
Dave [0:05:21]: Who's was like, oh, you don't need to get a colonoscopy yet.
Dave [0:05:25]: It typically it's your forty or something like that.
Dave [0:05:27]: I'm thirty eight.
Dave [0:05:28]: But your video, I watch this morning You said I'm thirty six.
Louis [0:05:31]: Yeah.
Louis [0:05:31]: Yeah.
Louis [0:05:32]: So I didn't get a look p for fun.
Louis [0:05:35]: I got it after a few symptoms which are important to talk about.
Louis [0:05:39]: The first one was blood in my stool within the end, like, towards a few weeks before.
Louis [0:05:44]: I, I got...
Louis [0:05:45]: I went to my Gp.
Louis [0:05:46]: And the other one was, like, changes in my bowel movements, which tends to be something people forget about or don't really notice it's, like, if you used to go three times a day and all of a sudden, you only go twice a day.
Louis [0:05:58]: Once a day or once every week, then there's something going on, you need to get checked.
Louis [0:06:02]: Yeah, it's very unlikely to be cancer.
Louis [0:06:04]: But long story short went to my Gp, she prescribed a emergency sequel colonoscopy.
Louis [0:06:09]: And within two minutes of set colonoscopy, I could see on the screen, the leading blur thingy blob and I knew it was bad, and yes, he was cancer, and the guy said at the end, I'm so sure it's cancer, we gonna order biopsy, and even if it comes back as not cancer, I've I'm gonna ask another one because it's cancer.
Louis [0:06:32]: Thought That was weird.
Louis [0:06:33]: Right?
Louis [0:06:34]: But I was in November of was a year a half ago.
Dave [0:06:38]: Wow.
Dave [0:06:38]: Wait.
Dave [0:06:39]: And you you just went in to see your doctor to be like, hey, This yeah.
Dave [0:06:43]: This weird thing happening.
Dave [0:06:44]: They were able to do a colonoscopy, like, right there.
Dave [0:06:47]: They said, let's
Louis [0:06:47]: know sorry now.
Louis [0:06:48]: No.
Louis [0:06:48]: So they prescribed...
Louis [0:06:49]: I had to go to the hospital.
Louis [0:06:51]: I mean, now that we are sharing secrets or sensitive stuff.
Louis [0:06:54]: She did check in there, but with her finger.
Dave [0:06:57]: Yeah.
Louis [0:06:58]: Notice that there was still blood.
Louis [0:06:59]: And was like, okay.
Louis [0:07:01]: This is a big deal.
Louis [0:07:02]: The fact that you're still bleeding, and it's not coming from Hem.
Louis [0:07:05]: And so, therefore, I prescribed a emergency colonoscopy, and you'll get a call from the hospital in the next couple of days.
Louis [0:07:12]: So kudos to the irish health system by the way, which was fucking fantastic from start to finish.
Louis [0:07:18]: So, yeah, could pee pretty much two or three weeks after.
Dave [0:07:22]: Okay.
Louis [0:07:23]: So this is not an entire piece episode about cancer, although, you know, I could talk about it.
Louis [0:07:27]: But, I guess the story and how it connects back to what you said earlier the timeless principles in marketing and standing out and whatnot is that in those half moments of, you know, having the diagnosis, knowing that I had to go through surgery, not knowing whether I needed a stoma bag after I still felt in control, and at peace because I was in the right place surrounded need better right people.
Louis [0:07:51]: And I didn't wanna change anything about my life.
Louis [0:07:55]: You know?
Louis [0:07:55]: I didn't not have this realization from, like, Hollywood moment of I must travel and I must do all of this stuff.
Louis [0:08:01]: I didn't.
Louis [0:08:02]: Right?
Louis [0:08:02]: And I think this calm and tranquility is something we can really emulate in the marketing world, like, whatever happens, you know, what foundations we have that we can lean on even if the sheet hit the fan.
Louis [0:08:16]: And that's why you open package number one.
Louis [0:08:19]: Right?
Louis [0:08:20]: I this way.
Dave [0:08:22]: Well, it's also just a great story.
Dave [0:08:23]: Obviously, you're through the other side now, but, like, I find myself this morning.
Dave [0:08:27]: I was watching your talk and I'm like, this guy hasn't mentioned marketing it, but I'm five minutes in because you...
Dave [0:08:32]: It's a lesson in a hook.
Dave [0:08:33]: I, unfortunately, the hook is the look cancer.
Louis [0:08:37]: It's like, once I got it...
Louis [0:08:38]: Once I got canceled was like, oh, my god.
Louis [0:08:40]: This is gonna make such a great pitch.
Louis [0:08:41]: I cannot wait.
Dave [0:08:44]: Ten lessons I learned about B marketing from surviving cancer.
Louis [0:08:47]: But, that's pretty much it.
Louis [0:08:48]: Isn't it?
Louis [0:08:48]: So, yeah.
Louis [0:08:50]: I need to close the loop.
Louis [0:08:51]: Surgery involved cutting the portion of my colon that had the tumor.
Louis [0:08:55]: Thankfully it was wasn't too close to my rec because then it could have been meaning a stoma bag.
Louis [0:09:01]: And I was on my feet two or three days after, and now I'm fully cured that I have no cancer left.
Louis [0:09:08]: I had my second economics after surgery.
Louis [0:09:10]: A few weeks ago, and it's all clear and all clean.
Louis [0:09:13]: So, yeah, Go get checked.
Dave [0:09:16]: Good lesson Psa.
Dave [0:09:16]: We'll take that.
Dave [0:09:17]: This is look.
Dave [0:09:18]: What's funny is like, people listen to our stuff for all the marketing stuff, but fifty percent of it now is because of, like, the human connection hanging out trading stories, and so this is...
Dave [0:09:27]: That's a good example for one we will feel You know, it's a good opportunity to put the Psa out there.
Dave [0:09:32]: And, yeah, You know, honestly, I can't wait till my kids get home from school today, so we can play with the mini colonoscopy machine that we have now.
Louis [0:09:39]: Do you have bets?
Louis [0:09:40]: Yeah.
Dave [0:09:41]: We've have two cats in a dog.
Dave [0:09:42]: So anybody get it.
Dave [0:09:43]: Anybody could be up for a colonoscopy today.
Dave [0:09:45]: Alright.
Dave [0:09:47]: Should shall I open box number two.
Dave [0:09:48]: Yeah.
Dave [0:09:49]: While, by the way, while I do that.
Dave [0:09:51]: I'm just curious, like, did you have any after that experience?
Dave [0:09:56]: Did you have the, like a come to Jesus moment or, like, question everything in your life and you got kids and what am I doing?
Dave [0:10:03]: I, I see you back and you're, like, you still got a passion for marketing for your work.
Dave [0:10:07]: I'm just wondering like, if that changed anything at all.
Louis [0:10:10]: But that's what I was saying earlier, it's like, nothing changed.
Louis [0:10:13]: It just confirmed that I wasn't in the right place during the right thing.
Louis [0:10:17]: If anything I'm being more intense about my day today, but I haven't changed anything about it, which was such a great thing, knowing that even in those very hard moments, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else, you know?
Dave [0:10:33]: What have you changed about your day to date?
Dave [0:10:34]: You say more intense or more like a indeed?
Louis [0:10:36]: Yeah.
Louis [0:10:36]: Like, I'm trying to have even more fun, but it's hard.
Louis [0:10:39]: How your kids?
Louis [0:10:40]: Fun.
Louis [0:10:41]: I have one daughter and she's four.
Louis [0:10:43]: She's four.
Louis [0:10:44]: Yeah.
Louis [0:10:46]: Alright.
Louis [0:10:46]: So David's is opening package number two.
Dave [0:10:50]: Package number two.
Louis [0:10:51]: And clearly, couldn't wait.
Louis [0:10:52]: Okay.
Louis [0:10:54]: So what's the t shirts?
Louis [0:10:56]: So you're holding a t shirt.
Louis [0:10:57]: What does it say?
Dave [0:10:58]: Holding a t shirt that says worst pin pinata ever, and it's a picture of the trojan horse from eleven fourteen Bc?
Louis [0:11:07]: I love how random it is how, like, there's no connection within the two and yet there is.
Louis [0:11:11]: So the story about this is I wanted to make a point about Trojan Horse, which is one of the first kind of marketing concept, timeless stuff I want you to talk about today.
Louis [0:11:20]: I couldn't find any good ones.
Louis [0:11:22]: I wanted to get you a little sculpture of a trojan horse.
Louis [0:11:24]: I couldn't find one.
Louis [0:11:25]: So...
Louis [0:11:26]: And then I saw this joke, like this t shirt.
Louis [0:11:28]: I think it was pretty funny.
Louis [0:11:29]: I was like, okay.
Louis [0:11:30]: I'm gonna get that instead.
Louis [0:11:31]: So why Trojan horse?
Louis [0:11:32]: It's one of the thing that people struggle with the most when they're passionate about whatever they're selling.
Louis [0:11:37]: I don't know what you...
Louis [0:11:39]: If you found the same thing, dave but it's like, they are so in love with their idea or what they're doing what they're selling.
Louis [0:11:47]: That they forget to meet people where they are at.
Louis [0:11:52]: And they try so how to educate people about their way of thinking to educate the market to do this well, instead of just taking their point of view and starting from there.
Louis [0:12:02]: So that's kind of the conceptual trojan horse, but that stop here.
Dave [0:12:05]: Can you explain the joke?
Dave [0:12:06]: My history is not that good.
Dave [0:12:07]: So why why is the joke?
Dave [0:12:09]: Why was it a pinata?
Dave [0:12:10]: I know the trojan horse story, but did they like?
Louis [0:12:12]: What's the?
Dave [0:12:13]: A pinata is, like, you stuff a horse, you know, full of candy, and you smash it open and the kids go get the candy.
Louis [0:12:19]: Right.
Louis [0:12:19]: So here, the trojan horse is like the joke is that it's a giant pine because it's stuffed with soldiers.
Louis [0:12:26]: So it's the worst pi to ever her because it goes into the Cto of Troy on Kids everyone.
Dave [0:12:33]: Oh, like this...
Dave [0:12:33]: And the the city of Troy was like, wow.
Dave [0:12:35]: Check out this Pi pinata we got and then instead of, you know, Jolly Ranchers in there.
Dave [0:12:39]: It's soldiers that are gonna
Louis [0:12:40]: Exactly.
Louis [0:12:40]: So worst.
Dave [0:12:42]: I would wear that.
Dave [0:12:42]: I'm wearing that shirt to the gym.
Dave [0:12:44]: That's for sure I'm a walk.
Louis [0:12:45]: Well, and then you'd be like, oh, do you get
Dave [0:12:47]: the joke?
Dave [0:12:47]: Do I need
Louis [0:12:48]: to explain it to you?
Dave [0:12:49]: You have a huge show under a huge trojan horse guy.
Dave [0:12:51]: No.
Dave [0:12:53]: So you mentioned something that night?
Dave [0:12:55]: We talk about this a lot now with our team.
Dave [0:12:57]: And one, the fun parts about Exit Five now is, like, over the last couple years, it's more from my solo business to now we have a team of seven people, and it's super fun because I feel like I get to, like, do marketing again, and I'm involved in strategy, and, you know, we're sending out emails and we're running ads and we're trying to get people to go to webinars, and that's fun.
Dave [0:13:16]: It doesn't matter to me what the topic is.
Dave [0:13:18]: It's like, that's the fun activity.
Dave [0:13:20]: And we talk about this all the time now, which is, like, I sent an email.
Dave [0:13:24]: I took a screenshot of something we sent out the other day, and I sent to our team.
Dave [0:13:26]: I said, hey, honest question, like, if you got this in your inbox, like, what would you do and it was like, oh write to spam.
Dave [0:13:32]: Like, this is a terrible email.
Dave [0:13:34]: And I don't know where I got this, probably from the drift days, like David and who are the founders of there were very into, like, don't study B to b focused on consumer just, like, use your own brain and see things in your personal life that you react to and, like, take note of what catches your attention.
Dave [0:13:52]: And so I've always tried to, like, have that as a first principle, and we talk a lot about, like, we love webinars.
Dave [0:13:58]: Webinars work amazingly well for us.
Dave [0:14:00]: Other companies, some people say, no one goes to webinar anymore.
Dave [0:14:04]: I'm like, If you actually break it down, Louis, what's different between a webinar and, like, watching a Youtube video or listening to a podcast?
Dave [0:14:13]: It's all the same.
Dave [0:14:14]: And how you get someone there is, like, what comes down?
Dave [0:14:17]: It's what's in it for me, why am I actually gonna spend an hour out of my day?
Dave [0:14:20]: Hanging out with you and everything has to start there.
Dave [0:14:23]: Let's work backwards from, like, let's assume everybody hates marketing.
Dave [0:14:26]: Let's assume everybody hates sales.
Dave [0:14:28]: Let's assume nobody wants to be marketed to our sold too.
Dave [0:14:30]: Let's assume that I like you have a thousand emails in my inbox.
Dave [0:14:34]: Let's assume that, yes.
Dave [0:14:35]: I've only been recording with you for twenty one minutes, and I already have three missed calls on my phone.
Dave [0:14:39]: Right?
Dave [0:14:39]: Like, nobody needs more information, and so quite literally, the name of your book.
Dave [0:14:44]: Right?
Dave [0:14:44]: Is, like, Stand the F*ck Out.
Dave [0:14:46]: That is, like, the first principle that I think about more than anything else right now.
Dave [0:14:49]: And for some reason, I wanna rant the other day about this, but there's a whole crowd of people like, who are in the marketing sphere that they're, like, the hole than thou crowd, which is, like, you know, you shouldn't do things to get attention and marketing isn't about...
Dave [0:15:02]: I'm like, it absolutely is a game of attention because You quite literally have to get people to pay attention to care.
Dave [0:15:08]: So then you can earn the right to tell them about your product later.
Dave [0:15:11]: And so I love that framing of, like, the trojan horses, like, I wanna get your attention first.
Dave [0:15:16]: And then I can tell you about the thing that I wanna sell you later.
Louis [0:15:20]: It also goes one level deeper, which is first, you need to give people what they think they need.
Louis [0:15:24]: Right?
Louis [0:15:25]: And then you give them what they actually need.
Louis [0:15:27]: And there's a lot to be said about positioning and services or products.
Louis [0:15:32]: I talked to a lot of folks in the marketing space offering services, and they are so hell into...
Louis [0:15:38]: I do strategy.
Louis [0:15:39]: I don't do tactics.
Louis [0:15:40]: I sell strategy to clients, but they don't buy strategy.
Louis [0:15:43]: They want Facebook ads.
Louis [0:15:44]: Right?
Louis [0:15:44]: And they burn out within two or three years because they try so hard to dedicate educate people about it.
Louis [0:15:51]: Right?
Louis [0:15:51]: And to say, no.
Louis [0:15:53]: No.
Louis [0:15:53]: No No.
Louis [0:15:54]: Don't forget about Facebook ads.
Louis [0:15:55]: You must do strategy first.
Louis [0:15:56]: You must put the strategy together.
Louis [0:15:57]: And I'm like, no.
Louis [0:15:59]: The trojan holds principal tells you know.
Louis [0:16:01]: If first meet them where they're at.
Louis [0:16:03]: If they all want to be do Facebook ads, and you like working with them, then guess what your Facebook agency to start with.
Louis [0:16:10]: Oh, at least your offer your services like that.
Louis [0:16:12]: And then slowly, you bring them to where we them to be.
Dave [0:16:15]: Oh, lot
Louis [0:16:16]: of don't that mistake before.
Louis [0:16:17]: Right?
Dave [0:16:17]: Back at drift, like, when we started the marketing of the product, it was basically, like, we came up with a wedge.
Dave [0:16:23]: Which is, like, we eventually wanna sell this to everyone, but we know right now.
Dave [0:16:26]: We need to...
Dave [0:16:27]: It's a chatbot that goes in your website, and Yeah.
Dave [0:16:30]: The limiting factor is going to be that not everyone and the company has access to the website.
Dave [0:16:34]: Like, who can actually install the code on the website.
Dave [0:16:37]: Right?
Dave [0:16:38]: Do you work at Hot back in the day?
Dave [0:16:40]: Is that where?
Dave [0:16:40]: Okay.
Dave [0:16:41]: Like, if you wanna get hot hr on your website, you have to install the code.
Dave [0:16:44]: And so therefore, you have to sell to the person who can do that.
Dave [0:16:47]: And so even though we didn't think the product marketing role was our long term buyer, we're like, oh, they have influence and access to the website.
Dave [0:16:54]: So let's kinda like, the trojan horses like, like, go through product marketing.
Louis [0:16:57]: But you mentioned H, there was an example H job to majority of users came because of heat maps.
Louis [0:17:03]: And we offered way more than that.
Louis [0:17:06]: There was website recording.
Louis [0:17:07]: Their was survey.
Louis [0:17:08]: But guess what?
Louis [0:17:09]: Heat maps was deep feature.
Louis [0:17:10]: Yep.
Louis [0:17:10]: So instead of, like, fighting hard about, you know, it's all in one.
Louis [0:17:14]: There's more to that, we actually created a lot of content around heat maps and big, like ranked number one for so many of them, that fund also so many users.
Louis [0:17:21]: So like, letting go of your darling and your ego.
Louis [0:17:24]: You're not god as a marketer.
Louis [0:17:26]: Right?
Louis [0:17:27]: We are no god.
Louis [0:17:27]: You can't change people's mind.
Louis [0:17:29]: You can't generate demand that's another thing.
Louis [0:17:31]: You can't make people believe something they don't believe.
Louis [0:17:33]: You can only meet them where they're at.
Louis [0:17:35]: And if you're lucky, move them slightly towards you, but like, that's it.
Dave [0:17:41]: On that point, I wanna come back to your thinking about jet demand.
Dave [0:17:44]: But on that point about the heat maps at hot thing, like, that's a perfect example of This happens all the time in companies?
Dave [0:17:51]: It's like, no No.
Dave [0:17:52]: We have ten things.
Dave [0:17:53]: We we have ten features.
Dave [0:17:54]: We want them to know about all the features it's like, well, can we get them to know about one, and then can we expand there And I think this is where a lot of marketers that are listening this are probably like in their cars or whatever nodding along right now because the challenge is that, like, leadership.
Dave [0:18:07]: There's someone in sales or someone in this department or someone in this department is they wanna talk about the whole thing, and it's like, our job as marketers is to help the company internally to show them, like, hey.
Dave [0:18:16]: We're not gonna have the.
Dave [0:18:18]: We need to get the right to tell them about the whole thing.
Dave [0:18:20]: And to tell them all of the things that Hot Could do, but let's first get them we have this great feature that's heat map.
Dave [0:18:26]: Let's get them to get addicted to that, get using that, get value from that then we can be like, hey, You know us.
Dave [0:18:32]: You like us.
Dave [0:18:32]: You trust us.
Dave [0:18:33]: We have this thing that you use.
Dave [0:18:34]: We actually have other things that we can tell you.
Dave [0:18:37]: But I think it's this...
Dave [0:18:38]: We wanna try to do it all at once.
Dave [0:18:39]: When I think my favorite copywriting lesson is just this concept of, like, first line second line.
Dave [0:18:44]: Right, what's the goal of the first line of copy?
Dave [0:18:46]: The goal the first line of copy is to read the second line.
Dave [0:18:48]: And I think that's true about marketing in general.
Dave [0:18:52]: Right?
Dave [0:18:52]: Like, let's get you to use heat maps so we can get you to use this thing so we can get you to use this thing.
Dave [0:18:57]: Let's go back to your thing about.
Dave [0:18:59]: You can't you are not god.
Dave [0:19:00]: You can't generate demand explain that.
Louis [0:19:03]: So you can generate demand for a category of product or services.
Louis [0:19:06]: You can only position your product into a category that is in demand on channel some of it to your business.
Louis [0:19:12]: When people talk about demand generation, they usually mean generating demand for a product inside a category that is in demand, but you can't do that otherwise.
Louis [0:19:23]: There needs to be needs that are there, there needs to be humans wanting something, and you need to meet them there.
Louis [0:19:29]: You need to...
Louis [0:19:29]: Like, it's a river.
Louis [0:19:30]: Right?
Louis [0:19:31]: It's a flow.
Louis [0:19:31]: It's a demand river, and you need to just position your thing so that you create a little canal that just bring some of it to you.
Louis [0:19:40]: But so many marketers founders think that they can influence people so much that they can make them care about something they don't care about.
Louis [0:19:49]: And I get pushed back on that a lot.
Louis [0:19:52]: About, oh, what about Le?
Louis [0:19:54]: Yeah.
Louis [0:19:54]: I don't know if you come across those stalls.
Louis [0:19:56]: What about this what about that, whatever.
Louis [0:19:57]: And it always channels needs are already there, and it's also the exception of the rule.
Louis [0:20:04]: Those things that are impossible to replicate.
Louis [0:20:06]: You can use the same playbook you won't be the same.
Louis [0:20:10]: So I'm being very pedantic out the words.
Dave [0:20:12]: No...
Dave [0:20:12]: Look, Dude, also, I think like, so many people that listen this, I think, one of the challenges that I had with, like, I believe in the concept of, say, category creation.
Dave [0:20:20]: Mh.
Louis [0:20:22]: However is the past tense?
Dave [0:20:24]: No.
Dave [0:20:24]: I think I think I believe.
Dave [0:20:25]: Believe.
Louis [0:20:27]: Okay.
Louis [0:20:27]: Okay.
Louis [0:20:27]: You still about believing it?
Dave [0:20:30]: I still believe in it, but it...
Dave [0:20:31]: Everybody took the message in the wrong way, which is, like, every single product ever created we need to create and invent a new category for.
Dave [0:20:39]: It's like, yeah.
Dave [0:20:40]: I I don't agree with that because you could totally have a...
Dave [0:20:43]: What if your ambitions was to just create, like, a nice little boots strap Saas product, and it's just another...
Dave [0:20:49]: Yep.
Dave [0:20:50]: It's another landing page tool, and it's like, a little bit cheaper and it works and people are happy and, like, that's the business you wanna run.
Dave [0:20:55]: That can be okay.
Dave [0:20:56]: You don't...
Dave [0:20:57]: You can also go after a a whole company by basically just, like, eating up a share of their market by saying, like, yeah, you know, Hubspot has now become this, like massive all in one platform.
Dave [0:21:05]: They have all these features.
Dave [0:21:07]: We're just gonna do one thing really well.
Dave [0:21:09]: And although on, I'll let you go.
Dave [0:21:13]: I'll let you let you share you're thinking a second.
Dave [0:21:15]: Where it does apply like, yes.
Dave [0:21:18]: Was creating the iphone and the ipad, a new category of device, like, you can make more of a connection.
Dave [0:21:25]: I just think like the average person listening to this and the app the...
Dave [0:21:28]: They're working at a company their boss is the founder, or Ceo, they're the visionary, like, the next little like Mart tech point solution.
Dave [0:21:36]: It's very hard to, like, come up with some big category defining narrative for that.
Dave [0:21:40]: I guess, that's where I come from.
Louis [0:21:41]: Yeah.
Louis [0:21:41]: So most cases the claiming to be category recreation cases are actually sub category creations.
Louis [0:21:48]: Cases which, again, I'm being very pedantic here are very so important because, like, the air fryer.
Louis [0:21:53]: Right?
Louis [0:21:53]: That's sad created.
Louis [0:21:54]: Like, it's a fryer, but it's not using oil.
Louis [0:21:56]: And so it's almost always the same.
Louis [0:21:59]: It's like, it's like that, but it's like different in that way.
Louis [0:22:01]: So you're always leaning on something that already exist.
Louis [0:22:04]: There is other
Dave [0:22:05]: drift we said it's like live chat, but for sales and network.
Louis [0:22:10]: Exactly.
Louis [0:22:10]: So, like, you need to lean on something that already exists because we are not good, and therefore, you can't put thousands into people's head.
Louis [0:22:16]: You need to meet them where they at.
Louis [0:22:18]: So it's it's like that's why the first car that didn't have a a horse attached to it was called a horse carriage.
Louis [0:22:24]: You get big examples
Dave [0:22:26]: comparing it to the carriage.
Dave [0:22:27]: But what would you say to, like, I would quote this Og line all the time, which I do you believe this then?
Dave [0:22:33]: There's...
Dave [0:22:33]: He said there are no dull products only dull writers, which is, like, okay.
Dave [0:22:37]: There are no boring product.
Dave [0:22:38]: There's only marketers who can't make it interesting.
Louis [0:22:41]: Yeah.
Louis [0:22:41]: For sure.
Louis [0:22:41]: That's more about distinctive than differentiation.
Louis [0:22:45]: So the differentiation is ability to say we are the only one that does that thing unlike all of the alternatives or direct competitors.
Louis [0:22:51]: Right?
Louis [0:22:52]: That position you as the best choice, the least risky choice.
Louis [0:22:56]: Distinctive is about to be noticed is the ability to be noticed to stick in people's mind regardless of the product.
Louis [0:23:02]: So if you're in demand, even if you have hundreds of competitors, By the way, that's a great proof that there demand.
Louis [0:23:09]: Then you can be super distinctive even have a lot of fun, but you can't confuse the two notions because they are not the same.
Dave [0:23:15]: That also makes the point earlier of you can't create demand.
Dave [0:23:18]: Usually, there is some form of demand.
Dave [0:23:20]: Right?
Dave [0:23:20]: There's tons of competitors in the space, which is a good sign It means there's buyers.
Dave [0:23:23]: Know, there's people in this market.
Louis [0:23:25]: They've done the education for you.
Louis [0:23:26]: Right?
Louis [0:23:26]: Yeah.
Dave [0:23:28]: Alright.
Dave [0:23:28]: Can you a
Louis [0:23:28]: good number.
Louis [0:23:28]: Case number six.
Louis [0:23:29]: No.
Louis [0:23:29]: No.
Louis [0:23:30]: No.
Louis [0:23:30]: Number six.
Dave [0:23:31]: It's classic.
Dave [0:23:31]: That's good marketing right there.
Dave [0:23:33]: We're gonna interrupt.
Dave [0:23:34]: We're gonna go to number six.
Dave [0:23:35]: Did you wrap all this?
Dave [0:23:37]: No.
Dave [0:23:37]: This had to be a outdoors rap.
Louis [0:23:39]: So we asked my right hand woman, Diana works with me.
Louis [0:23:43]: We asked her best friends who still best in the Us to order all of them to her house and package them.
Dave [0:23:50]: So that's why this smells nice.
Dave [0:23:51]: Yeah.
Louis [0:23:54]: So might bike...
Louis [0:23:54]: Like, if I had send them, we don't smell nice is it's...
Louis [0:23:57]: That the implication here.
Dave [0:23:59]: I don't know...
Dave [0:23:59]: I don't do.
Dave [0:24:00]: I've never...
Dave [0:24:00]: I've never smelled you hand, so I don't.
Dave [0:24:03]: I don't have the answer that.
Louis [0:24:05]: I know, there's so many we have closed from this.
Louis [0:24:06]: Like, is that an anus?
Dave [0:24:13]: Right.
Dave [0:24:13]: People will really hate me.
Dave [0:24:14]: If we just crop This would be the true test of no context.
Dave [0:24:17]: Okay.
Dave [0:24:17]: So this this is a nice pair of rooster.
Dave [0:24:21]: This a bathing suit.
Dave [0:24:23]: Yeah.
Dave [0:24:24]: Okay.
Dave [0:24:25]: So it's
Louis [0:24:26]: a bathing suit with my Roger The rooster.
Louis [0:24:29]: Distinctive brand assets on.
Louis [0:24:31]: Right Sure.
Louis [0:24:32]: The reason why I asked you to open this package six is because we were talking about distinctive nes a bit.
Louis [0:24:37]: And one of the core fundamental principle that I think many B2B2Bcompanies in particular.
Louis [0:24:44]: Get wrong.
Louis [0:24:45]: Is this idea that you don't need to add to add an attach meaning to all of your brand assets in order to stand out and in fact, you should probably go after one or two, assets that are meaning free.
Louis [0:25:01]: So Explain what that means.
Louis [0:25:02]: It means like, you know, when you taste water, it tastes like nothing because our brain is kind of wired to...
Louis [0:25:08]: This is the average.
Louis [0:25:09]: This is what it should taste like this is the bland thing.
Louis [0:25:12]: And it's there because if it's poisoned or if there's a...
Louis [0:25:15]: Was a dead cheap at the top of the heel, and you drink that weather, you could die.
Louis [0:25:20]: And so you don't wanna to create something that is meaningful, like, you know, all of those copywriter that have a fountain pen as a logo, because you run the risk of confusing your prospect brain, you're not the only one way they font and pen, and therefore, you don't stick in people's brain.
Louis [0:25:38]: You could use other categories like in Sas in particular using very similar color, very similar logos, very similar vibes, The minute it's like the chatbot and the how do you call them, You know, the coloring thing like the lovable, but they do with the color, how you call that, the neon like.
Louis [0:25:53]: Anyway.
Louis [0:25:55]: So it's important to use some assets so that you make sure that people understand that you belong to a certain category, but you wanna go completely left field with one or two that are meaning free.
Louis [0:26:07]: Yeah.
Louis [0:26:08]: So that's the only one you it.
Dave [0:26:10]: I don't know why I guess, like, I'm not doing this with Exit Five because it's kinda like, already working and things are established.
Dave [0:26:16]: And maybe we could.
Dave [0:26:17]: But I feel like if I was gonna start a company, like, a Saas company today.
Dave [0:26:21]: The number one thing I would do is just come up with some insane completely not like anything else branding.
Louis [0:26:29]: Yep.
Louis [0:26:29]: And you don't wanna go too far.
Louis [0:26:30]: You wanna go far enough so that they still know that you're part of this group, but you're not like the other girls.
Louis [0:26:37]: Right?
Louis [0:26:38]: So, like, I don't know if you saw post hog website redesign recently, select this product analytics tool.
Louis [0:26:44]: They redesign their entire website to be, like, an Os or my experience, like, Windows ninety eight.
Louis [0:26:49]: So the entire website is essentially a an Os inside the website.
Louis [0:26:55]: It's completely different from any other websites we've ever seen, and they went all in with it.
Louis [0:27:00]: Right?
Louis [0:27:00]: Like, you can open menus open Windows inside.
Louis [0:27:03]: It's fucking gorgeous.
Louis [0:27:04]: Right?
Louis [0:27:04]: Mh.
Louis [0:27:05]: And there's this deal hedgehog as well.
Louis [0:27:07]: And I ask you, you know, what does a hey hedgehog have anything to do with product and analytics?
Louis [0:27:13]: Absolutely nothing.
Louis [0:27:14]: What does have a rooster anything to do with positioning branding?
Louis [0:27:18]: You could say well, I'm french, the rooster, whatever.
Louis [0:27:20]: But That's how far it goes.
Louis [0:27:22]: No one else uses it.
Louis [0:27:24]: No one else will uses it in my space.
Louis [0:27:27]: And so this is a meaning free brand asset.
Louis [0:27:29]: So back in the day, talking like an old man, you know Gong, Yeah.
Louis [0:27:34]: They used to have this dog as their mascot called Bruno, Bruno the bulldog dog, a real dog, and they actually had auditioned eight dogs before picking this one.
Louis [0:27:44]: Again, what does bulldog dog have to do with anything around, like, sales calls and cells.
Louis [0:27:48]: Nothing.
Louis [0:27:49]: So This is the my advice.
Louis [0:27:51]: My foundational kind of press principle advice.
Louis [0:27:54]: You could go after...
Louis [0:27:55]: I'm just gonna share briefly the type of things you could look into.
Louis [0:27:59]: Like, there's the sounds stuff.
Louis [0:28:00]: There's the visual stuff like logos, type face, colors, Mh.
Louis [0:28:03]: There is mascot, in particular like characters.
Louis [0:28:06]: I would argue that Fore Exit Five.
Louis [0:28:08]: One thing that is highly distinctive is you.
Louis [0:28:11]: And I think this is what makes it work as well, not only from your network and all the stuff you're growing, but also your face quite simply.
Louis [0:28:20]: Yeah.
Louis [0:28:21]: So just being the main person in front of this company.
Louis [0:28:24]: I think makes it meeting free distinctive because no one understands your face.
Dave [0:28:28]: Yeah.
Dave [0:28:28]: That's true.
Dave [0:28:28]: That's a weird thing for media articulate because, like, sometimes we'll be like, well, how are we different than so.
Dave [0:28:32]: And so of people ask, and I'm kinda like, well, me, I guess, it's weird for me to say it, but it is.
Dave [0:28:37]: Like, this is it is.
Dave [0:28:38]: This is the ingredient.
Dave [0:28:39]: Like, the whole marketing strategy when I learned how to do marketing, which I would say was that Drift was like, the founders were well known.
Dave [0:28:46]: Had lots of followers already had a reputation.
Dave [0:28:49]: So I was like, oh, boom, perfect.
Dave [0:28:50]: This is my ingredient.
Dave [0:28:51]: Like I think, what I love about marketing is, like, each company is different.
Dave [0:28:55]: Each scenario is different.
Dave [0:28:57]: Everybody has different budget team, availability.
Dave [0:28:59]: And what's really fun is, like, you get to, like, open the fridge.
Dave [0:29:03]: And, like, all we have is, like, three eggs onion and a piece of bread and, like, we gotta make a decent meal it.
Dave [0:29:09]: And that's what's fun to me.
Dave [0:29:10]: And I like sure, I've worked at a company that had lot of Vc money that had no money.
Dave [0:29:14]: Now I'm doing a bush up.
Dave [0:29:15]: Like, this is the fun part about Mark He's like, oh, let's...
Dave [0:29:17]: That's why it's funny because you and I, like, we give marketing advice for a living, so I'm gonna like, shit on us for a for a second.
Dave [0:29:23]: But it's like, there is so much nuance.
Dave [0:29:25]: It's like, Okay.
Dave [0:29:26]: Maybe this company, like, everyone's like, just hire A players and it's like, well, they actually can't hire a players because, like, no one's ever heard of them before.
Dave [0:29:32]: They have no money.
Dave [0:29:33]: So they kinda have to hire some, like, c players who could maybe become A players.
Dave [0:29:37]: So anyway, I love that as a differentiator.
Dave [0:29:40]: You also mentioned them just these little details, like, sound, like, Gary V been talking about this forever he talked this concept of like, Sonic branding, which I think is genius and think about it, if you listen to musicians or podcast podcasts, you know, they have a certain sound.
Dave [0:29:57]: Like, I've been listening to Tim Ferris podcast for ten years.
Dave [0:30:00]: I could harm you what his like, intro tune is, and that's now cemented in my head as things like, we absolutely should think about these things in B.
Louis [0:30:10]: And it goes back to scientific facts about the way maybe it works.
Louis [0:30:13]: Right?
Louis [0:30:13]: It's not because Gary said it.
Louis [0:30:15]: It's not because of any of that.
Louis [0:30:16]: It goes back to first principle foundational scientific stuff.
Louis [0:30:19]: We remember things is better where the tickle different parts of the brain.
Louis [0:30:23]: And if you can associate your brand with sound stuff, visual stuff, character stuff, that actually stored in different parts, so that helps with recognition, recognition, you noticed all of that.
Dave [0:30:34]: I believe that we had an event couple months ago.
Dave [0:30:37]: I'm not gonna give any more details this because they I don't wanna expose anybody.
Dave [0:30:40]: But I met a person who...
Dave [0:30:43]: We've traded messages forever online, you know, whatever, great super friendly super kind.
Dave [0:30:47]: I was talking to this person, and they had the worst breath.
Dave [0:30:52]: The worst breath.
Dave [0:30:53]: And I...
Dave [0:30:54]: Maybe it's a medical thing.
Dave [0:30:55]: I don't know no disrespect.
Dave [0:30:56]: Every time I see that person pop up.
Dave [0:30:59]: That's all I can think of now.
Dave [0:31:01]: That's Louis with the bad breath, and I can't help it, but that is physically ingrained in my.
Louis [0:31:06]: I haven't met, so you easy.
Louis [0:31:07]: Yeah.
Louis [0:31:08]: But that's it.
Louis [0:31:09]: And I know that one of the questions that people are asking then start listening to this right now is how do I get approval from the Ceo or the C suite about this.
Louis [0:31:18]: So how do we go meaning free?
Louis [0:31:19]: Like, they want to play safe and whatnot.
Louis [0:31:22]: Yeah.
Louis [0:31:22]: And so it's...
Louis [0:31:23]: I don't know what your advice there.
Louis [0:31:25]: I'm actually curious to hear what you would say to people asking this.
Dave [0:31:29]: I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
Dave [0:31:30]: I've been doing a bunch of calls with people taking new jobs or founders or whatever.
Dave [0:31:34]: I think you have to really be a steward of, like, the craft of marketing and if I just say to you.
Dave [0:31:39]: Like, hey.
Dave [0:31:39]: I wanna do...
Dave [0:31:39]: I wanna change this...
Dave [0:31:40]: I wanna make this look crazy, then Ceo gonna be like, well, I don't sit...
Dave [0:31:43]: I don't get it.
Dave [0:31:44]: But if I can actually sit down with you, and Be like, hey.
Dave [0:31:46]: Louis, can we sit down for like, I just wanna, like, talk about, like, our competitive landscape and how people buy and, like, how they make decisions and if you can talk about in the framework of, like, how we're gonna get people to pay attention to us then I like it.
Dave [0:31:57]: Right?
Dave [0:31:57]: Where Yeah.
Dave [0:31:58]: Where nobody gives you the chances is if you just kinda do a one off thing and you're like, we wanna try something different, I think that can be hard.
Dave [0:32:04]: How do you answer that?
Louis [0:32:05]: Yeah.
Louis [0:32:05]: Like that pretty much.
Louis [0:32:06]: Now, I would add a couple of tactical stuff.
Louis [0:32:08]: One thing that I like to advise is to ask for forgiveness and not not permission.
Louis [0:32:13]: So try to, like, within your realm of responsibility.
Louis [0:32:16]: To try something a campaign, let's say you only run Facebook ads for your company and you want them to try something different.
Louis [0:32:23]: Well, run a Facebook ad campaign with that idea in mind with a small budget that won't, like, get you fired and prove that it's working better in whatever metrics.
Louis [0:32:33]: Right?
Louis [0:32:33]: So, like, prove it as for forgiveness us data, if you didn't not have really the commission to do it.
Louis [0:32:37]: That tends to work well.
Louis [0:32:39]: Another thing is okay.
Dave [0:32:41]: Of results.
Dave [0:32:41]: If you could blind and cover up the creative and you just showed, like, the Ceo the results.
Dave [0:32:45]: They're almost always I've never met a Ceo that is not interested in the results side of it.
Louis [0:32:51]: Yeah.
Louis [0:32:51]: Or, you could appeal to today Ego and say, well, why don't you create a campaign or wait don't you do the way you think, and I'll do the way I think and compare results.
Louis [0:33:00]: That looks the works.
Dave [0:33:03]: They'll never do
Louis [0:33:03]: it.
Louis [0:33:03]: Well, and think that was it's my job.
Louis [0:33:07]: It was something I think about
Dave [0:33:08]: when I go on Linkedin as an example it's like, I see...
Dave [0:33:10]: I don't get why And I'm sure we do this too.
Dave [0:33:15]: So you could find our ads and you can dunk on me for this.
Dave [0:33:17]: So whatever.
Dave [0:33:18]: I think a lot of times, like, why do the ads look like ads.
Dave [0:33:22]: Especially in b2b b, we make these ads that look like it's so odd.
Dave [0:33:27]: It's like a because of what you set because of the root cause of this was, like, because it has to be on brand.
Dave [0:33:32]: And so there's this ad in my Linkedin feed that basically just looks like a flyer for the company.
Dave [0:33:37]: It's got the same font, the same logo.
Dave [0:33:39]: It's like, my brain, instantly tunes that out where?
Dave [0:33:42]: Did you ever read the bo letter Gary Helper?
Louis [0:33:45]: Yes.
Louis [0:33:45]: Gross.
Louis [0:33:46]: K.
Dave [0:33:48]: He has this thing in the book where he talks about the a pile and the b pile.
Dave [0:33:51]: Like, when you get your mail when you get your pile of male, you come home And you know, I got all this stuff.
Dave [0:33:57]: These are my, like, bills and everything.
Dave [0:33:58]: I put these away.
Dave [0:33:59]: I put these in the side.
Dave [0:34:00]: But then there's one handwritten note that's clearly, like, human and this kinda sm in the back.
Dave [0:34:06]: I'm gonna open that one first.
Dave [0:34:07]: Yep.
Dave [0:34:08]: Because it's a handwritten No.
Dave [0:34:09]: This is why years ago we went to doing plain text emails and kinda like, look, you know, lowercase subject lines, Like, don't you want your ads to stand out?
Dave [0:34:16]: Isn't it the point?
Dave [0:34:17]: I want to get you to click on it?
Louis [0:34:19]: What's funny about it is how that changes?
Louis [0:34:21]: Over time is like, as more marketers use the same tricks, then that becomes the norm, and so the opposite of that could very well be what used to not work now works.
Louis [0:34:31]: Right?
Louis [0:34:32]: There.
Louis [0:34:32]: And it's also...
Louis [0:34:33]: I think there's an argument against it saying, like, a lot of big, big, big brands keep growing by just being there.
Louis [0:34:40]: Right?
Louis [0:34:40]: Like, Coca cola, Mcdonald's all of that.
Louis [0:34:42]: They need to stay top of mind, they need to keep their share voice share market.
Louis [0:34:47]: And they need to look like extremely successful company that run ads because running ads, people as you said that with success on the fact that oh, they have budget and they're there.
Louis [0:34:59]: And even though we don't necessarily react to it like, oh, I must click on that link, I must due to that page that tells me did down.
Louis [0:35:08]: It's there.
Louis [0:35:09]: Right?
Louis [0:35:09]: So I think this argument against not just going just for that type of ads.
Louis [0:35:14]: For small brands.
Louis [0:35:16]: That's probably
Dave [0:35:17]: different though.
Dave [0:35:18]: Like, I think about that when I travel.
Dave [0:35:19]: I go to the airport, and I'm, like, this whole terminal is like Cisco you know, I'm like, who...
Dave [0:35:25]: How do they mention it?
Dave [0:35:26]: But it's exactly your point.
Dave [0:35:27]: That feels legitimate If I'm traveling for work, and I'm like, Damn.
Dave [0:35:30]: Cisco is everywhere, like, okay.
Dave [0:35:31]: That's a legitimate.
Dave [0:35:32]: And then when my company is working with them, that totally makes sense.
Dave [0:35:35]: I...
Louis [0:35:36]: You don't get fired from hiring Ibm as this day.
Louis [0:35:38]: Right?
Dave [0:35:39]: Yeah.
Dave [0:35:39]: Right.
Dave [0:35:40]: I saw Z Crm everywhere in, like, the Detroit airport, and I was like, oh, they must be doing well.
Louis [0:35:47]: Yeah.
Louis [0:35:47]: But there you go.
Louis [0:35:47]: Exactly, right?
Louis [0:35:48]: And that might not be true.
Louis [0:35:49]: Who knows?
Louis [0:35:50]: Why don't we open package for.
Louis [0:35:52]: I'm careful I'm mindful of the time, and I wanna make sure you get to open all of your little things.
Dave [0:35:58]: This has gotta be for.
Louis [0:36:00]: Joyce to audio version of this podcast.
Louis [0:36:02]: It's just gonna describe dave's face.
Louis [0:36:03]: Dave's is very, very excited.
Dave [0:36:05]: This is very handsome.
Louis [0:36:07]: No.
Louis [0:36:07]: I didn't say.
Louis [0:36:08]: I said it's very, very exciting.
Dave [0:36:09]: No That means in French that means handled
Louis [0:36:11]: in French times.
Dave [0:36:16]: We're not cutting anything out of the audio episode because this gonna get people to watch.
Dave [0:36:20]: This looks like a bat signal?
Dave [0:36:23]: Yeah.
Dave [0:36:24]: It is a bad signal light.
Dave [0:36:27]: Yeah.
Dave [0:36:28]: Okay?
Dave [0:36:29]: That's it?
Dave [0:36:30]: Thanks for coming on the bar.
Dave [0:36:32]: Dude.
Dave [0:36:33]: Yeah.
Dave [0:36:33]: Great to see it.
Louis [0:36:35]: That's just that's just for y'all for your office or whatever.
Louis [0:36:38]: So, yeah, it's a real light bad signal thing.
Louis [0:36:41]: I think it was handmade or on those lines.
Louis [0:36:44]: It's not a mass thing.
Louis [0:36:46]: And so one of the other principles I want to...
Dave [0:36:49]: What is that?
Dave [0:36:49]: I care about it more, is I mean, we're supporting some local
Louis [0:36:53]: Whatever it is.
Louis [0:36:54]: Yeah.
Louis [0:36:54]: Exactly.
Louis [0:36:54]: You should care about it more.
Louis [0:36:56]: So bad signal why the fuck did is on that to you.
Louis [0:36:59]: I think the one thing that keeps coming back when I already work with.
Louis [0:37:04]: Oh, sorry.
Louis [0:37:05]: Clock sake basically.
Louis [0:37:06]: Alright you see that's how excited it is.
Louis [0:37:08]: It's just it's just shaking excitement and just broke the lamp already.
Louis [0:37:12]: And the concept of a bad signal is related to point of view, and I know that a lot of folks here about this advice on, you must have a point of view and your company should share a point of view and that's how you stick out.
Louis [0:37:25]: And I don't like it that much because I think it, again, forgets about the first principle behind all of it.
Louis [0:37:30]: So a point of view is not there to be controversial for the sake of it.
Louis [0:37:34]: It's not there to steer shit.
Louis [0:37:35]: It's not there to be a contra or anything like that.
Louis [0:37:39]: A point of view, it's really there to show your segment, your people, your Ic that you're there for them that you're there to protect them earning their trust.
Louis [0:37:49]: And you do it by talking about the struggles their face, you do it by naming the monster or the enemy or whatever.
Louis [0:37:56]: And you do it in a way that is consistent everywhere, so that that creates a sense of coherent and control.
Louis [0:38:03]: Right?
Louis [0:38:04]: When you share a point of view throughout everything you do, people understand why you're here?
Louis [0:38:10]: And I don't know if I come across a business or someone on Linkedin let's say, where you're like, what's their game?
Louis [0:38:18]: Why are they here?
Louis [0:38:18]: Why are they doing this?
Louis [0:38:20]: Right?
Louis [0:38:20]: Like, what's the deal?
Louis [0:38:21]: Right?
Dave [0:38:21]: Yeah.
Louis [0:38:22]: It's because they're lacking this kind of through line this point of view, this bad signal that this should broadcast to the world.
Louis [0:38:29]: So that's why you had the best signal as the light.
Dave [0:38:32]: Wait sir saying you don't.
Dave [0:38:33]: You should have a point of view, but the point of having one isn't for the sake of content.
Louis [0:38:40]: It's not there for the sake of contracting people for the sake of it or just shifting on a group of people for the sake of it.
Louis [0:38:47]: A lot of advice around point of view is narrative is, like, basically said the opposite of what others are saying, and that's not at all where it should be.
Louis [0:38:55]: It's about signaling to the right people that you're there for them you're on their side.
Louis [0:38:59]: And it takes time.
Louis [0:39:02]: And a lot of people do it.
Louis [0:39:03]: Without thinking.
Louis [0:39:05]: Like, I mean, you're an example of that with Exit Five.
Louis [0:39:07]: Like, everything you do is centered around one thing, and you don't do it just to piss people off or to annoy a group of people.
Louis [0:39:14]: You do it because normally gets to school to study big to marketing.
Louis [0:39:18]: Right?
Louis [0:39:19]: That's kind of the overarching of view.
Louis [0:39:21]: Yep.
Louis [0:39:21]: And that trickle goes down to every single thing you do.
Louis [0:39:24]: That's what...
Dave [0:39:25]: So it's a good observation because something that I'm trying to...
Dave [0:39:27]: I try to edit it out a lot or, like, I don't want to...
Dave [0:39:30]: I think as we've morph from, like, my personal brand to the company.
Louis [0:39:35]: Yeah.
Dave [0:39:36]: A lot of the way that I would write online is, like, it would be very polarizing.
Dave [0:39:40]: Like, this is wrong.
Dave [0:39:41]: This is Dot out dot.
Dave [0:39:42]: Right?
Dave [0:39:43]: And I vowed to basically be, like, I'm not gonna do that because I really think everything can work.
Dave [0:39:48]: And so instead, our mission as a company with X.
Dave [0:39:51]: If I if I was doing Solo consulting, Dave, I'm trying to get pipeline for myself, like I would take a different approach.
Dave [0:39:55]: But we wanna...
Dave [0:39:56]: Wanna be a brand that, like, lift up marketers.
Dave [0:39:59]: We celebrate the craft and the job of doing marketing, and we are a resource where you can come and learn.
Dave [0:40:04]: Yeah.
Dave [0:40:04]: And then there's people who don't like me for whatever reason I know how you can not like me.
Dave [0:40:09]: That will then translate...
Dave [0:40:10]: I could never follow five because Dave's full of shit.
Dave [0:40:13]: That's totally fine.
Dave [0:40:14]: But our content is meant to be like, designed for you.
Louis [0:40:17]: Yes.
Louis [0:40:17]: But that's how again, exactly it is.
Louis [0:40:20]: That doesn't prevent you from having a extremely strong point of view because as you said, you're there to help your people, like B2b marketers to have thriving careers and influence to companies they work for.
Louis [0:40:32]: And that's why everything you do goes on to that.
Louis [0:40:35]: But I would disagree with something you said where you're like, oh, when I post something, like, I don't like this I don't see that at all.
Louis [0:40:42]: Like, in the way you're right.
Louis [0:40:43]: Mh.
Louis [0:40:44]: It's actually quite...
Louis [0:40:45]: You do have nuances, and you don't just say this is all shit.
Louis [0:40:49]: You shouldn't do it.
Louis [0:40:50]: You don't.
Louis [0:40:51]: So, you yeah know, I would disagree with that.
Louis [0:40:53]: Okay.
Louis [0:40:54]: Good assessment.
Louis [0:40:54]: Right?
Louis [0:40:55]: But
Dave [0:40:57]: I think the point of view thing though, don't you also think...
Dave [0:40:59]: I think the other thing is, like, this can't be just a marketing thing.
Dave [0:41:02]: It can be like, marketing develops a point of view.
Dave [0:41:03]: I think people that do this really well Like, the point of view is actually embedded in the Dna of the company?
Dave [0:41:09]: Like, I'm into these.
Dave [0:41:10]: My feet are all messed up because I've been wearing bad Nike and Jordans and choose my whole life.
Dave [0:41:15]: And so I got really into, like, finding a barefoot...
Dave [0:41:18]: The concept, like, a barefoot foot shoe that kinda spreads out your toes is better for your feet, and I've...
Dave [0:41:22]: There's this brand, vivo barefoot.
Dave [0:41:24]: Right?
Dave [0:41:24]: Perfect example of this.
Dave [0:41:26]: Like, that's not a marketing message.
Dave [0:41:27]: It's...
Dave [0:41:28]: Their point of view is literally baked into, like, how they build the product, and that's where this can be really powerful.
Dave [0:41:34]: And so your point of view has to be baked into, like, Yeah.
Dave [0:41:37]: We do have a new way of doing this, and that's gonna be represented in our marketing.
Louis [0:41:42]: It has to come from a place of...
Louis [0:41:44]: Yeah.
Louis [0:41:44]: It's not a marketing trick.
Louis [0:41:45]: It has to come from a place of generosity towards the people you seek to serve.
Louis [0:41:49]: And it's like, progressing that backs vaccine all into the sky is saying, hey.
Louis [0:41:54]: If you need this, if you struggle with that.
Louis [0:41:56]: This is where you can find us.
Louis [0:41:57]: And there's no trick there.
Louis [0:41:59]: It's not about being controversial for the sake of it.
Louis [0:42:01]: Okay.
Louis [0:42:03]: Dave is going rogue.
Louis [0:42:04]: Open to fucking.
Louis [0:42:05]: It's just open What's the number that you opened.
Dave [0:42:09]: Oh, do Want me to do this one first?
Louis [0:42:11]: I don't know.
Louis [0:42:12]: You've already opened the other one.
Louis [0:42:13]: So go ahead.
Louis [0:42:14]: There's no.
Dave [0:42:15]: This is...
Dave [0:42:15]: This one I was worried about.
Dave [0:42:16]: This is the one I was worried because you sent this to my house.
Dave [0:42:19]: This one wasn't wrapped.
Dave [0:42:20]: I'm like, oh, shit.
Dave [0:42:21]: Like, is Trump trying to get me.
Louis [0:42:24]: So that's a Tnt
Dave [0:42:29]: trigger.
Louis [0:42:30]: Do you remember the the crash?
Dave [0:42:32]: Oh my god.
Dave [0:42:33]: Dude, my my kid we bought a Playstation one, so he could play the original crash band, and it's up upstairs.
Dave [0:42:39]: The only video game he likes.
Dave [0:42:40]: We love we...
Dave [0:42:41]: Yes.
Dave [0:42:41]: Yes.
Dave [0:42:41]: I do.
Louis [0:42:42]: Alright, that's what him then.
Louis [0:42:44]: So that's a little kicker, like, a Tnt box speaker, and that's another principle that I think is probably the most overlooked principle in b2b.
Louis [0:42:53]: It's the fact that people don't buy because they have pain points, people buy when they experience a set of triggers that lead them to buy because you can be in pain quite literally.
Louis [0:43:04]: For years without doing doing anything about it, and it's only when specific triggers happen that you actually do something.
Louis [0:43:12]: So I just gonna give you two examples.
Louis [0:43:14]: I'm working with a Saas at the minute that sell to manufacturers they were struggling with that concept because for them, the problem was they're overwhelmed, and they need to manage the update to day better inside the factory.
Louis [0:43:26]: And I argued, that's just common.
Louis [0:43:29]: Everyone suffers from that problem, how are we gonna reach people when they need.
Louis [0:43:33]: What we offer.
Louis [0:43:35]: Discovered for interviews and stuff that one of the key reason why people push that Tnt trigger that chemical reaction happens when they buy a new factory inside the group or they get bots or they expand or they move to a new factory a new site.
Louis [0:43:52]: Right?
Louis [0:43:52]: So all of those things that are, like, life changing moments where there's a big change happening.
Louis [0:43:58]: The pain is still there, but then they are like, okay.
Louis [0:44:01]: Now that we'll move to a new site, we might as well take care of this.
Louis [0:44:04]: Right?
Louis [0:44:04]: And once you understand the difference between the two, I think that's extremely powerful.
Louis [0:44:09]: Right?
Louis [0:44:10]: It's like a tnt thing.
Louis [0:44:11]: At the reason why Tnt as the gift because crash money could for once, but also because I don't know if you knew.
Louis [0:44:17]: Tnt wasn't discovered as a explosive device explosive thing first.
Louis [0:44:22]: It was very stable compound.
Louis [0:44:25]: I don't remember what it was for, like, for dying colors, stuff like that.
Louis [0:44:28]: And it's only when it's actually put on their a massive amount of pressure that it just fucking explode.
Louis [0:44:35]: So it the same for people and how they decide to buy.
Dave [0:44:39]: I thought you just get one of those like intense signal ignore vendors and they tell you in this moment is about to happen and then just email people and then boom.
Dave [0:44:45]: You do
Louis [0:44:46]: it.
Louis [0:44:46]: Now, you're right.
Louis [0:44:47]: Actually, I'm sorry.
Louis [0:44:48]: I'm I'm wrong.
Louis [0:44:48]: But you see that's why the first principle thinking is so important.
Louis [0:44:53]: Once you know that that's how people behave, and you can look back at everything you've bought in the past, I can guarantee you.
Louis [0:44:59]: I'll find at least one trigger that is not directly related to the pain point or problem.
Louis [0:45:03]: Once you understand that, you can then apply the tools and the insight from twenty twenty six to your stack.
Louis [0:45:12]: So, yeah, The minute it's all hot, like Gt signals and whatever.
Louis [0:45:16]: That's the same principle.
Louis [0:45:17]: That's the same thing, but they focus on stuff like neural, Yeah.
Louis [0:45:21]: New company, whatever.
Louis [0:45:22]: That.
Dave [0:45:23]: So, like, let's get into a company.
Dave [0:45:24]: You were gonna go work on a new company, a new product that, you know, we're gonna go help this company that already exists like, the very first thing we're gonna do is, like, deep research on the customer.
Dave [0:45:32]: Let's look at the last fifty customers who have bought and our good fit customers, and let's try to really talk to them and understand, like, what was the kinda inc incident.
Dave [0:45:42]: What was the thing that actually led to the purchase.
Dave [0:45:44]: And that's not gonna mean We're gonna send some perfectly timed email about it so we can build an understanding of how people buy and then where do we need to show up along that journey?
Louis [0:45:54]: Exactly.
Louis [0:45:54]: The power of this is not only just to be all the change up.
Louis [0:45:58]: Therefore, we should send them an email.
Louis [0:46:00]: It's about being they have before they even stopped thinking about us?
Louis [0:46:03]: It's like, if you sell took factories if you sell, like a Saas to factories and you know that moving out or moving in or whatever is a big trigger, I guess what, you create content about it, You associate yourself with the theme and the topic of moving in, like, preparing the move and whatever.
Louis [0:46:20]: And then once they are ready once they moved in and they look into search like yours.
Louis [0:46:25]: They think of you first.
Louis [0:46:26]: Right?
Louis [0:46:26]: So that's the beauty of thinking these ways, you can anticipate what's gonna happen next.
Louis [0:46:30]: Once you really understand triggers, usually, like, they are almost always the same once you start I don't identifying looking into research.
Dave [0:46:37]: Yeah.
Dave [0:46:37]: Well, what you're talking about that also makes the case for, like, investing in brand and let's do things to get people to know we exist before they're ready to buy from us.
Louis [0:46:47]: Yeah.
Louis [0:46:47]: That's why I think a lot of B2b market to struggle with the pain pinpoint problem kind of messaging or approach?
Louis [0:46:54]: It's because they get stuck there.
Louis [0:46:56]: It's like, yeah.
Louis [0:46:57]: But what if they don't feel the pain that much?
Louis [0:46:59]: What if there's is an urgency where do you go from there?
Louis [0:47:01]: Like, what are you supposed to do?
Louis [0:47:02]: Well, you look at trigger events and you go back into the timeline, and that's when you can build, associate yourself your brand with key category entry points or trigger events or whatever you're gonna call them.
Dave [0:47:15]: And can also got this fifty pound dumbbell.
Louis [0:47:18]: Oh, that wasn't part of the thing.
Louis [0:47:20]: Is bonus.
Louis [0:47:22]: Bonus.
Louis [0:47:23]: That's a rogue.
Louis [0:47:24]: That's a vendor, who decided to, like, frozen.
Dave [0:47:28]: Trying to tell me something.
Dave [0:47:28]: This is...
Dave [0:47:29]: Alright.
Dave [0:47:29]: And then I got the last one, which is what got my face going because this is...
Dave [0:47:33]: I'm gonna make it look like this was a gift to my children and the when they come on from school today, we're gonna put this together because
Louis [0:47:39]: look we're all...
Louis [0:47:39]: You think that it was on on purpose?
Louis [0:47:41]: I mean, do you really think I'm that...
Louis [0:47:42]: Now.
Dave [0:47:43]: I know.
Dave [0:47:43]: This is a good move.
Dave [0:47:44]: Surprise Well, marketing principle number seventeen surprise the delight.
Louis [0:47:49]: So this is a lego set, Harry Potter, Lego sets.
Louis [0:47:52]: Harry Potter because I believe your daughter loves Harry Potter, and yep.
Louis [0:47:57]: Lego.
Louis [0:47:57]: Yeah because That's one last concept about it, which is people for thinking that if they repeat themselves too much, they'll bore people out so they're always trying to find new ways to say stuff.
Louis [0:48:08]: And I think the principle it should be, like, share one core thing one thousand different ways.
Louis [0:48:14]: Not one thousand things one time.
Louis [0:48:17]: Right?
Louis [0:48:18]: And so the lego set is kind of decent analogy energy of all those breaks that are there to kind of build the same thing and goes back to the point of view Right?
Dave [0:48:26]: Yep.
Dave [0:48:26]: So there's a real analogy is like, we will have fun putting this together, But What they actually love most is once they put something together.
Dave [0:48:33]: Now we have...
Dave [0:48:34]: Then, eventually, everything gets taken apart.
Dave [0:48:35]: Now we have this massive bin with all the random pieces and, like, my son can play for hours with just all the random, like, we got some Sonic the hedgehog legos.
Dave [0:48:43]: We got some star wars.
Dave [0:48:44]: We got some Harry Potter.
Dave [0:48:45]: It's like, putting those all together what's fun.
Louis [0:48:48]: Exactly.
Louis [0:48:48]: So I think you.
Louis [0:48:49]: The other
Dave [0:48:50]: thing is, like, I've been reading a lot of, like, history, fiction, historical fiction, it's amazing because if you just take a step back and like, study history for a little bit, you're like, oh, all this stuff is the same.
Dave [0:49:05]: It's it's just different now, but, like, I forget what I was reading.
Dave [0:49:10]: Maybe I was listen to podcast.
Dave [0:49:12]: I to founders podcast and that guy David Center.
Dave [0:49:15]: They...
Dave [0:49:15]: He was doing...
Dave [0:49:16]: I listened one about Red Bull.
Dave [0:49:17]: Amazing.
Dave [0:49:18]: Right?
Dave [0:49:18]: Red bulls is like this crazy.
Dave [0:49:19]: They made an energy drink and, like, now, they're like, you know, sending people out of space and they own a One team and all this stuff.
Dave [0:49:27]: And it was like, all the reasons that this guy wanna start this company in the eighties or nineties whatever.
Dave [0:49:32]: There's so many lessons that apply to whatever products we're working on today.
Dave [0:49:35]: Go study history, study people.
Louis [0:49:37]: Yep.
Louis [0:49:37]: I did this all study on pipe cutting tools and the market added it, like, for one company that I me to do it and realizing that history repeating itself from the first web builders like dream river, and all of that appeared and how dream river became very clunky and so therefore Microsoft front page started to take over a...
Louis [0:49:59]: Like, it basically the mirror image of what's happening now faster, but same thing.
Louis [0:50:04]: So, yes, study history.
Louis [0:50:05]: And don't think you're that clever to actually, you know, do something that shouldn't really won't follow those principles.
Louis [0:50:13]: It's like, let's just check our Ego at The door and be a student of what's happening of our customers of the market of history.
Dave [0:50:21]: What do you say to someone who would listen to this or hear anything about this in the same vein that we would talk about and say, yeah, yeah.
Dave [0:50:26]: This is great.
Dave [0:50:26]: I get it.
Dave [0:50:26]: But like, you guys didn't show me any B2B2Bmarketing examples?
Dave [0:50:29]: Why are people?
Dave [0:50:30]: What?
Dave [0:50:30]: Why do people ob obsessed over that?
Dave [0:50:32]: Why do we always have to know that, like, Salesforce had this landing page and it worked really well and so that, like, that counts.
Dave [0:50:38]: So why does that matter?
Louis [0:50:40]: I think it's a version of, like, risk.
Louis [0:50:41]: It's we don't like risky stuff.
Louis [0:50:44]: We can remove as much risk as possible both from our decision the better.
Louis [0:50:47]: So asking for b to b example means it's well less risky because I know it's applied to my world, and I don't have to think that much.
Louis [0:50:56]: Right?
Louis [0:50:56]: Don't make me think.
Louis [0:50:57]: But I would say, we share a lot of bits example here.
Louis [0:51:00]: We shared talk about Hot.
Louis [0:51:02]: We talk about the Sas, like the industry.
Louis [0:51:05]: We talked about
Dave [0:51:06]: Post hog.
Louis [0:51:07]: Yeah.
Louis [0:51:07]: Post hog Drift.
Louis [0:51:08]: Gong with Bruno d Bulldog.
Louis [0:51:10]: I mean, come on, you know?
Dave [0:51:13]: Yeah.
Dave [0:51:13]: You're right.
Dave [0:51:13]: Go rewind this.
Dave [0:51:14]: And what are you up to these days?
Dave [0:51:16]: Sir, Louis.
Louis [0:51:19]: I've launched a Youtube channel doubling down on something that's Ai contact touch, which is, like meeting people in person and actually doing some fun marketing work together, so I launched a first series about locking three freelancers in a cottage in Ireland and helping them with their positioning.
Louis [0:51:37]: That I was fun.
Louis [0:51:38]: So I was four videos, and we're doing another one pretty soon.
Louis [0:51:42]: I'm gonna go to the house of a Saas founder, and just be there for two or three days, film everything, help him with this marketing, but also understand story behind it.
Louis [0:51:52]: I'm a big fan of documentaries, man.
Louis [0:51:54]: I love Louis Room in particular Like, I fancy myself as someone who could do a good job there doing some mix of, like, the documentary style with marketing and advise.
Louis [0:52:05]: So that's thing.
Louis [0:52:06]: And then the books stand Fa out is still I and that to everyone who asked me, I still talk about it all the time.
Louis [0:52:13]: But that's yeah.
Louis [0:52:14]: The Youtube is pretty much the one thing at the minute that I'm ob obsessed about because it's fun.
Dave [0:52:18]: You have a film crew in in your area that you trust and hire or you'd hire freelancers each time.
Louis [0:52:24]: So for the first time, the one in the cottage, I hired a video.
Louis [0:52:26]: But for the one with the Saas on there, I'm actually gonna go on my own, I have two cameras.
Louis [0:52:33]: I have my gear, and I'm gonna do that myself.
Louis [0:52:36]: I wanted to be intimate.
Louis [0:52:37]: I don't want it to feel like this is an entire crew there.
Louis [0:52:40]: And it might fucking fail, but I'm gonna try.
Dave [0:52:46]: What are you gonna feel?
Dave [0:52:46]: What you got?
Dave [0:52:47]: Gopro?
Dave [0:52:47]: You put Gopro pros right?
Louis [0:52:48]: No.
Louis [0:52:48]: So I have a Dg dji handheld camera, and then I have a sony oh nice.
Louis [0:52:53]: Thingy.
Louis [0:52:53]: I have, like, the wireless microphone.
Louis [0:52:57]: I have a shotgun microphone.
Louis [0:52:59]: I have mounting gears.
Louis [0:53:01]: Have everything I need.
Dave [0:53:04]: Okay, Louis.
Dave [0:53:04]: Louis, On Linkedin it says, Louis French.
Dave [0:53:07]: That's
Louis [0:53:09]: it?
Dave [0:53:09]: Check him out.
Dave [0:53:10]: Stand the F*ck Out.
Dave [0:53:11]: I love this topic, man.
Dave [0:53:12]: I'm happy to do more of it.
Dave [0:53:13]: I...
Dave [0:53:13]: If I could be an advocate for one thing, it would be this, this type of stuff So if you like this hour with Louis, I wanna hear your feedback directly, email me Dave at exitfive.com or go to Louis Linkedin and send him a message, because I I think we can do a good job of advocating Like I understand a lot of the tactical stuff matters.
Dave [0:53:32]: But I wanna get more people to think.
Dave [0:53:35]: You know Harry Dry?
Dave [0:53:36]: A little bit.
Louis [0:53:37]: A little bit.
Louis [0:53:38]: Now.
Louis [0:53:38]: He's a good friend of mine.
Dave [0:53:39]: Yeah.
Dave [0:53:39]: Desi.
Dave [0:53:39]: Okay.
Dave [0:53:40]: Yeah.
Dave [0:53:40]: You guys are similar.
Dave [0:53:41]: He told me He told me.
Dave [0:53:42]: He spoke a drive this year, and it was great and was one of the most well received sessions because it was exactly this, and I saw a guy in the lunch room after and he was like, man, I talk with Harry, like, reminded me why I love marketing, and I feel the same way when I talk to you.
Dave [0:53:55]: This is...
Dave [0:53:55]: It's not about this, like, you know, Ab data provider, use case and here's what you can do.
Dave [0:54:00]: It's like, I like talking about this stuff.
Dave [0:54:02]: And it's fine.
Dave [0:54:03]: I've been looking forward to this.
Dave [0:54:03]: I got a whole mess of of presence and stuff.
Dave [0:54:06]: And so you should go...
Dave [0:54:07]: It's my Youtube channel.
Dave [0:54:08]: Hey, Dave Gerhardt or just search Dave Gerhardt.
Dave [0:54:10]: Youtube or Exit Five Dave Gerhardt.
Dave [0:54:12]: We'll have this up here You can see.
Dave [0:54:14]: I don't know, maybe I was gonna take the rest of the day off, and I'll get this Harry Potter things set up before my it's come out from school.
Louis [0:54:19]: Yeah.
Louis [0:54:19]: I two things very briefly.
Dave [0:54:21]: Sure.
Louis [0:54:22]: So thanks for today.
Louis [0:54:24]: It's quite fun.
Louis [0:54:24]: The first time we talked, the first time I've you do on my now dead podcast.
Louis [0:54:28]: Everyone heights marketers is was nine years ago, man.
Louis [0:54:31]: Just to.
Louis [0:54:32]: Yeah.
Louis [0:54:33]: Nine fucking years ago.
Dave [0:54:34]: So that was twenty sixteen...
Louis [0:54:37]: Twenty seventeen, you were just starting at drift.
Louis [0:54:40]: Oh, my god goodness.
Louis [0:54:40]: If I not mistaken.
Louis [0:54:42]: I'm gonna throw
Dave [0:54:43]: because that my daughter was just born now she's...
Louis [0:54:45]: I know It's weird.
Louis [0:54:45]: It's fucking weird.
Louis [0:54:46]: So one thing do take any symptoms related relating into your bowel seriously.
Louis [0:54:51]: Don't be a ashamed of it.
Louis [0:54:53]: They see way worse.
Louis [0:54:55]: So blood into massive changes in bowel movement, tired, a lot of stuff like that.
Louis [0:55:02]: It's unlikely that you have it, but do fucking seriously.
Louis [0:55:05]: And then the last thing is amen.
Louis [0:55:07]: The fun thing about the concept and the first principle we talked about is whatever happens in your career or entrepreneurial life.
Louis [0:55:13]: You will stand back up.
Louis [0:55:15]: Right?
Louis [0:55:15]: If you fall, you will stand back up because you have those principles foundations to lean on.
Louis [0:55:18]: And so whatever happens, new Ai shit, whatever, you will feel in control, and that's a nice feeling when you're in marketing.
Dave [0:55:26]: That's a good message because it's hard.
Dave [0:55:28]: I feel like I have these skills and I have constant fo.
Dave [0:55:32]: Like, my new thing lately is, like, dude everyone's talking about cloud code, and I don't even know how to write a single line of code, Like, in my toast.
Dave [0:55:38]: Is this?
Dave [0:55:38]: The business?
Louis [0:55:40]: Yeah.
Louis [0:55:40]: Yeah.
Louis [0:55:40]: Fired it.
Louis [0:55:40]: A apply.
Louis [0:55:41]: But that's why exactly what I'm saying it because you're not alone, I'm not, like, everyone feels this way and it just, like, to ease up your nervous system to say, you will figure shit out.
Louis [0:55:51]: If you have those foundations, you will figure she, you will.
Louis [0:55:53]: No problem.
Dave [0:55:55]: We will.
Dave [0:55:55]: Alright, Louis.
Dave [0:55:56]: Great to see you, my friend.
Dave [0:55:57]: Likewise, I'm gonna get you to Vermont in September.
Dave [0:56:00]: You'll be here.
Dave [0:56:01]: We'll figure it out.
Louis [0:56:02]: We have a problem with that.
Louis [0:56:03]: K.
Dave [0:56:04]: And talk about it later.
Dave [0:56:05]: Bye.
Dave [0:56:07]: Goodbye.
Dave [0:56:11]: Hey, Thanks for listening to this podcast.
Dave [0:56:13]: If you like this episode.
Dave [0:56:14]: You know what?
Dave [0:56:15]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.
Dave [0:56:20]: I have something better for you.
Dave [0:56:21]: So We've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at Exit Five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating a review, go check it out right now on our website exitfive.com.
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