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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.
Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge
necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.
And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.
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Please let others know by sharing,
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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the
Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.
ca.
Today, I'm joined by an adventure,
not just any adventure, but
someone who National Geographic
has named adventure of the year.
He's walked across Iceland.
He's walked across India.
He rode across the Atlantic unsupported
for 45 days from Spain to Barbados.
And he spent four years
cycling across the world.
He is the author of numerous books,
including his most recent, Local.
He is extremely passionate about
encouraging people to search closer than
ever before to their homes for nature and
wilderness to embark on micro adventures.
Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Alistair Humphreys.
Alastair Humphreys: Thank
you very much for having me.
Travis Bader: You have.
Quite the list of
accolades behind your name.
Your books that you've
written are inspiring.
They get people outside and they
do so in a really accessible
way, but I really, really want
to talk about micro adventures.
I want to talk about your new book,
but I think I would be absolutely
remiss if we didn't touch on a little
bit about you and kind of what got
you into these grand adventures and
what's been pushing you into the term
that you coined micro adventures.
So if we're going to look back a little
bit, what's your earliest memory of
an adventure that you've been on?
Alastair Humphreys: Oh, um, I grew
up in, um, a lovely part of Northern
England called the Yorkshire Dales.
It's very beautiful little
country sides of landscape.
And I was quite lucky that the school
I went to, say when I was about nine
or ten years old, they forced the
entire school, I'm sure this would
be highly illegal these days, but
they forced the whole school to go
and walk this, um, 26 mile mountain
challenge, the three peaks of Yorkshire.
So that's what.
About 40 miles walking around
the countryside over some hills.
Uh, it was, and you had to do it
in under 12 hours to get a t shirt.
And I was so proud of that t shirt.
So that was my, that was my
first adventure, but you know,
everyone in my school was doing it.
So it wasn't that I was some
sort of crazy adventure guy.
It was just that I was lucky to grow
up in the countryside and my school
made us do stuff like that, I guess.
So, um, yeah, that's my first
real adventure, I think.
Travis Bader: Yorkshire,
beautiful countryside, beautiful
puddings, uh, what, James Cook.
He's from your, he's one of your
countrymen there from Yorkshire, isn't he?
Grand Explorer.
Yep.
Amy Johnson, Amy Johnson.
You know about her?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
Good, good Yorkshire knowledge.
There
Travis Bader: you go.
I, I liked it over there is, uh, just a
beautiful area that, uh, what did she do?
She flew from England to Australia.
She was the first person to
Alastair Humphreys: do that.
Yeah,
Travis Bader: yeah, that's
a pretty adventurous.
So I, you know, what, what
is it that drives you?
What was it that drove you to go out
on these massive grand expeditions
that took tons of planning and arguably
put your life in, in harm's way.
What, what was it that was inside you
that was sparking that, that desire?
Alastair Humphreys: So I, I didn't really
do anything particularly adventurous as a
kid, um, beyond school camping type trips.
So it was only really when I
got to university that a couple
of things happened to me.
Um, one, we have like the, the
reserve army in Britain that's, um,
basically a weekend army, essentially.
And I joined that, uh, mostly because
the beer was really cheap and you got
paid money to run around the hills.
And I had, I had no interest in
the guns at all, but I really
enjoyed running around the hills.
And that was the first time in my life
that I'd got quite a a buzz out of
being pushed really hard and setting
high standards and working hard to
try and meet those high standards.
So I got interested in that sort of
physical side of challenging myself
in a way that I'd never done before.
And then simultaneously to that at
university, when I should have been
studying, uh, I was mostly reading
or when I wasn't drinking beer,
I was mostly reading books about
travel and adventure and explorers.
And I loved all of these things.
And those two worlds collided
really, uh, getting me just thinking.
Wow, I really want to set myself a
huge, physical, difficult challenge,
um, and I really want to go see
the world, all these amazing places
that I've been reading about.
There must be exciting places
beyond the shores of Britain.
Let's go have a look at it.
Um, but Like a lot of young people,
I didn't have a huge amount of
money, uh, but I had plenty of time.
And so I decided to go
around the world by bicycle.
It was a, it's cheap, it's simple, it's
painful, it's slow, it's difficult.
It's a brilliant way to see wild
places and to talk and communicate with
communities and families and individuals
who meet along the way, and still
after all the adventuring I've done,
I haven't yet found a better way to
travel than to put a tent on the back of
a bicycle and see how far you can get.
So yeah, it was a combination of
curiosity and wanting to travel, like
a lot of young people, plus a drive
to try to prove something to myself in
some sort of tough, challenging way.
Travis Bader: No kidding.
Well, when I look at it, so when you say
I can't think of a better way than to
throw a tent on the back of a bicycle
and travel around, I got to imagine,
uh, meeting people all over the world,
different communities, uh, learning about
cultures that are completely foreign to
your own and just opening yourself up
to an environment that, and situations
and, and adventures that you might
not normally see will just sit around.
Sitting on the couch at home for sure.
But that's a very different adventure than
getting into a rowboat with a couple of
your mates and rowing across the Atlantic.
So one, I would think there's
a very, um, social side to it.
And the other one's going to be correct
me if I'm wrong, but dogged determination
and your social network is now going to be
those few people on that rowboat with you.
Does that sound about
an accurate description?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, very much so.
And so after I'd, after I'd gone around
the world, I started to start seeking out
different kinds of adventurous experience.
So hot places, cold places, desert,
dry places, oceans, wet places.
So trying to get a variety of,
uh, environmental experiences, but
also traveling in different ways.
So by foot or, uh, on skis,
pulling a sled or on a rowing boat.
So getting different kinds of adventures.
And then.
The third thing is also trying to mix
up doing journeys by yourself, um,
versus doing them with other people.
There are pros and cons to traveling
alone and traveling with other people.
And yeah, traveling around the world was
very much, I was on my own, but it was
a shared social experience of every day.
I was.
buying bread from the village
shop or asking someone for
directions or, um, and so on.
So it was always a conversational
type experience, um, interspersed
with areas of remote wilderness.
Rowing the Atlantic was just me and
three other guys and nothing for
3, 000 miles, um, of empty ocean.
So that really became an exercise,
as you say, in dogged determination,
but also it's very much a.
human interaction of how
do we work together to get
the best out of each other?
And frankly, to not
want to kill each other.
And how do I behave so that these
guys don't want to kill me as well.
So, um, I've really enjoyed, I mean,
traveling by yourself is fantastic for
your self self development, your self
confidence for knowing yourself, the
good sides and the bad sides, but you
can also become a bit of a selfish.
Idiot by just doing that.
So traveling with other people is
a really good way of remembering
to be kind, to offer kindness
and, and to accept kindness.
If someone said to me on the rowing boat,
Al, you're looking a bit tired today.
My natural macho instinct
is to say, I'm not tired.
Look how tough I am.
I'm going to row until I drop, which
is just dumb and far more sensible.
But I personally find much
harder is to say, thank you.
Thank you for your kindness.
I am struggling right now and
I'll accept your help and I'll pay
that back to you at some point.
So it's very, they're very
different experiences traveling
alone and with other people.
And, but I think both of them teach you
a lot about yourself and about the world.
Travis Bader: Yeah, that was, that
was a, uh, a lesson I learned.
I wish I could say I learned it early
in life, but I didn't, the, uh, the
whole macho, I'm tough, I can move on.
I can keep going really.
If you've got a large objective
that you're trying to meet.
Being able to pace yourself properly and
just give it your all every single day,
as opposed to 110 percent or 120 percent
and burning out in a couple of days.
Yeah, that was, um, I remember I was,
uh, in hiking some hills over here
with a good friend of mine, he's a
ex British army and his approach.
I'm looking at this guy, like he did
SAS selection a couple of times, and
he was about a day away from getting
badged when he got, uh, injured.
On, uh, on one of his attempts there,
but, uh, he's like, okay, yeah, no, let's,
let's get some food and that's okay.
Let's have a tea.
Okay.
Let's make sure we got our jackets on.
I'm like, what is this guy?
I thought we're supposed to be tough here.
Right.
But we were comfortable and where
everybody else was, uh, knackered on
the side, uh, fallen out, we just kept
going and going, and we just had a.
Pace that we can maintain day after day.
And so that, that little piece of, of
a life lesson, life lesson, I learned
very late in life, but what a crucial
one, if you really want to achieve more.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
And any idiots can be
uncomfortable, right?
Travis Bader: Mm hmm.
Yeah, totally.
So what advice would you give to somebody
who, let's say, and I know I really
want to talk about micro adventures,
but I, I got to, I got to get some of
the bigger adventures out of the way.
If somebody wanted to embark on
one of these two very different
types of adventures, let's say the,
uh, rowing across the Atlantic.
I, I think I read somewhere that
you guys didn't bicker there.
There wasn't any fights, which I find
unfathomable spending 45 days with other
people on a boat in these conditions.
But, uh, what advice would you
give to someone who wanted to
embark on an adventure like that?
Alastair Humphreys: Well, probably
my, my semi serious advice would
be don't go do the ocean row.
Um, it's, uh, It's an extremely expensive
way to have an adventure, extremely
logistically complicated and a bit of
a hassle and you, and you could spend
the money much more, um, much better I
think by just getting on your bicycle
and pedaling away from your front door
or just putting your backpack on and
walking out of your front door and just
setting off Forrest Gump type style.
I think, I think it's.
Especially for younger people to
consider how much money you have
available and how you can best
spread that into a long adventure.
So I didn't have very much money
for cycling around the world, but
I just made it last a really long
time by living an extremely basic
life essentially eating just.
instant noodles and banana
sandwiches for four years.
Um, which was, you know, sometimes
it's tough, but, or I could have
gone to Vegas for a week and,
uh, drunk champagne for a week.
So it's a kind of a choice of, of how
to get the best bang for your buck.
So I personally would hugely encourage
you to go for the, the simple cheap.
Adventure.
And another aspect is that it
then is all in your own hands.
Trying to row an ocean, unless you're
really rich, you're going to have to
go out and find sponsors and companies.
And then you're starting to put your
hopes and dreams in other people's hands.
And it takes ages and you
might fail and all sorts.
And so I'm a huge believer
in just, just trying to take
responsibility for your own.
Save up as much money as you can work
out how much time you have in your life
and then don't complain because someone
else has got more time and money.
Just appreciate what you've got and do
the best that you can with what you've
got and do it as soon as you can because
life will only get more complicated and
uh, with more commitments and more tight.
So do it, do it as soon as you can.
Travis Bader: What is it that drives
this passion for adventure that you have?
Alastair Humphreys: I think there
are various things driving my
adventurous side and they have
evolved a lot over the 20 years or
so I've been doing big adventures.
I mean, I guess that happens
just, you just get old, don't you?
So your motivations for life change.
But so, so.
If I just talk you quickly through
them, I've, I've mentioned the
early ones, which is a curiosity
to see the world and a desire to
push myself and challenge myself.
And then that sort of moved on
towards a, uh, a curiosity about.
learning about different
places in the world.
Um, and then adventures for me
moved on more to about the, the
joy that I got from encouraging
other people to go have adventures.
So I do my own adventures and then
through those try and encourage people
to have adventures of their own.
And then more recently, the more
recent phases is that adventure
for me is a way to spend time.
out in nature, which is good for my, uh,
body and my soul, physical and mental
health, but also is a way to start getting
me really connected and caring about
nature and the environment and hopefully
trying to help do something to, to fix
the mess that we've got ourselves in.
So yeah, my motivations for adventure
have evolved a lot over the years.
Travis Bader: You know, when I
was, uh, I think it was grade
three, I was diagnosed with ADHD.
My family had no idea what to do with me.
They were going to ship me off to a,
uh, uh, wherever someplace I would take
because I was a bit too much of a handful.
And then the doctor says, well, maybe
you should get this kid checked out.
Got diagnosed professionally with ADHD,
was put on the highest dosage of Ritalin
in the province on an experimental basis.
Apparently I was told anyways on an
experimental run to see how this worked.
I absolutely hated it.
But one thing that I found was
being outdoors, being in nature had
a, just a profound effect on me.
And it's something that I
encourage obviously everybody else.
And I see now they have, um, they talk
about, I think it's like green therapy or.
I forget what the term is that
they use, but, um, ways to cope
with ADHD without medication.
And a big part of that
is just being outside.
So that's always been a huge part of
me and, and my soul and what, what
kind of drives me more out of necessity
than anything else for my own sanity.
Um, would you say that that kind of,
uh, speaks to you as well, when you grew
up, were you one of, did you follow a
similar path as myself that you needed the
outdoors or did you discover the outdoors
and, and what it could do for you?
Alastair Humphreys: No, I don't
think I, uh, particularly needed.
the outdoors as a kid.
I enjoyed it when I was doing it, but
I generally quite happily spend as many
hours watching TV as I could get away with
before my mum threw me out of the house.
So, so no, so, so that
aspect didn't apply to me.
Although actually just, just this
weekend, I was talking to a friend of
mine who's a teacher in an elementary
school and they, there's an education
program called forest schools where you
do some of the teaching out in the woods.
And, uh, and she was telling me about
a child in the school who, really
struggles in the normal classroom.
They can't concentrate.
They're naughty, all these sort of issues
that may be familiar to you, Travis.
And yet when they get to the
outside part to the time in the
forest and boom, this kid shines.
They are the superstar.
They're engaged.
They know about the birds and
insects and boom, boom, boom.
And, uh, and there's, so there's different
levels of what success at school.
Could mean, I suppose, but
I, I've come to that side of
nature, uh, as an adult, really.
So now as an adult, I need to get out
and run around and burn off some energy.
I need to get out in nature just to
de stress myself and to calm down.
Um, and, and increasingly so, I find
that I turn towards just spending time
outdoors to just try and slow my soul and
get through the stresses of modern life.
Travis Bader: It's interesting
you bring up success.
If I were to ask you, and we have
success in many different ways,
but what would success be to you?
Because you're a guy who's got
some pretty high ambitions.
Clearly you're driven.
You've got a number of
different endeavors.
Mind you, they seem to follow a
similar theme and underlying theme.
What is success to you?
Alastair Humphreys: Well, success is
also a, something that is evolved a lot
and I've realized that it is a foolish
master and a foolish goal to chase
because for example, cycling around the
world, one of the re, I would come up
with a challenge like that thinking I
want to do something huge and enormous
and if I can just cycle around the world
then I'll Then people will tell me I'm
amazing and I'll feel great about myself.
And that will be real success.
And I go off all the way around the
world and I get all the way back home.
And I then essentially think, huh,
well, I made it around the world.
So it can't actually have been that hard.
So maybe I should have done
something a bit harder.
So then I start trying
to think of another idea.
So.
So trying to chase, um, goal
driven success is the route
to madness in my experience.
And much better is to try
and chase the sort of success
based on your, your values.
So what, what's important to me to be
someone who spends a lot of time in the
outdoors, who encourages people to live
adventurously, who tries to do a bit to
try and fix some of the environmental
issues and, and that sort of values
within me that I'm trying to work towards.
And if I spend a day doing
those, then that feels like.
Perhaps a successful day, but I'm really,
I'm really bad at Competitive success.
So for example, if I sell a thousand
books, I don't think oh great.
I just look on Amazon I see some dude
who sold 2, 000 books and I'm just
jealous and angry at that guy So yeah,
I have to try to just keep it within
myself rather than competing with others
Travis Bader: Yeah.
So you've got a pretty
strong competitive nature.
Clearly you've, you're competitive
with yourself in, in some of your
endeavors that you've been on.
Um, how do you, how do you handle
that, that natural competition
that you feel within yourself?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, essentially,
although I just said that about
competing with other people on books,
generally my competitive instincts
are just within myself, just trying to
push myself and prove stuff to myself.
And I think.
I think maybe I'm just getting old
because, um, I'm not, I'm not nearly as
ambitious and driven as I used to be.
And I'm much more concerned now.
We're trying to live a life that just
feels like it's got some purpose to it.
I'm trying to do some good, but
generally also that I'm just.
Enjoying my life.
And that's a very new concept.
Uh, until quite recently, I would
have thought that someone trying to
enjoy themselves was just a wimp.
And that really what I should be doing
is jumping in some ice cold lakes and
having a truly miserable time in order
to ensure that I was maximally alive.
But these days I'm quite happy with a,
uh, a good book and a cup of coffee.
You
Travis Bader: know, I've always
liked that, uh, that outlook
that, uh, success is to be able
to enjoy your life and to ensure.
To share that enjoyment with others and
people who have reached a point where
they know how to enjoy their life.
They know what it is that brings
them happiness and they're
able to share it with others.
I, I think that's a pretty good
measure of success for anybody.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, absolutely.
And I, I think I envy people that you
sometimes meet people who just got that
sorted and I definitely envy them and.
Travis Bader: You know, I don't know
if I'm ever going to have that sorted.
I, I, I like the, and a friend
of mine, you would probably, uh,
uh, have some words about this.
He's like, I don't think life is a
journey, but I like that journey.
However, we want to express ourselves.
Explain that or describe that the
process being able to enjoy that
process is, uh, so utterly crucial.
Like when you say being goal oriented
is, um, and always striving for
those goals, well, you get there
and then what, well, maybe I.
Maybe I need something harder.
I liken it to cliff jumping.
Okay.
Kind of scares me.
I'm pretty high up, man.
Is the water deep enough?
I think it was.
I threw a rocket.
It sounded like it was okay.
Let's go.
Okay.
That was good.
Let's do it a couple more times.
Now, what, well, let's
climb a little bit higher.
Right.
And you keep doing that.
And at what point do you stop when
you suffer serious injury, because
you don't want to give up, right?
You don't want to let your
fears get the, get ahold of you.
So I liken that process of, uh,
goal chasing to cliff jumping.
And maybe we need some of that.
Maybe we need those failures
to keep pushing this up if
they're, uh, controlled, but.
Man, there's something to be being
able to be content with the process of
being content with what you're doing.
There's no question in there.
It's just a big, long statement.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah,
that was a long statement.
I was about to try and think what to
say, but I'll let you ask a question.
Travis Bader: No problem.
So you had a podcast for a while,
which I thought was pretty cool.
Cause it's interesting listening to you
at your first episode and then listening
to you as you progress through and how
you get more and more podcast develops.
What was that?
Just my own personal sort of, uh,
uh, selfish question here, but
what was that process like for you?
Alastair Humphreys: First of all,
I absolutely loved having a podcast
and I continually trying to work
out ways to get it back to life.
Uh, essentially it seemed to me, it's
just an excuse to find someone that
I thought interesting and say, Hey.
Please can we hang out together for
an hour, um, in a way that if I didn't
have a podcast and just ask people that
it would seem a bit creepy and weird.
So I love that aspect of it.
Um, I mean, and interesting that you
mentioned the technical change in it.
I mean, the, literally the first
time I took the microphone.
out of the packet and press record
was when I put it in front of my
first guest, which is a terrible
way to go about the technique.
But hey, ho, I improved a bit.
But what I really enjoyed about
it was I, I just, I spent a whole
month cycling around Yorkshire.
This is the small County
that I grew up in in England.
And I did this because I'd been
all the way around the world, but
I realized I didn't know very much
about home where I'd grown up at all.
So I was interested just to go and
explore where I lived and I was
also very interested in what living
adventurously meant to different people.
I had my own ideas that living an
adventurous life was uh, pursuit
worth going for, but how did other
people approach that same question?
So I just went interviewing people who
in their different ways were living
adventurously and they were artists or
photographers or all sorts of various
different things, but it was just
essentially a really nice chance to
chat, but I found it deceptively hard.
So I'd prepare my questions and
then you ask the guy the first
question and they answer and go off
in a totally different direction.
So then in my head, I'm trying,
I'm trying to hold the microphone
in front of the person.
I'm trying to read what my second
question is, but also in my
head, I'm thinking, well, maybe I
should go down this new direction.
Cause this is really interesting.
And by the end of the interview,
I was absolutely exhausted.
So, um, I found it really quite hard
to do, but, but enjoyable as well.
Travis Bader: I've always found the
hardest part about recording any
podcast is just my introduction.
Cause I always look at it.
Like if I'm going to have somebody
into my house, I don't, I know
some podcast hosts will do this and
no judgment, but they'll say, go
introduce yourself to the audience.
I wouldn't have somebody
into my house and say, oh, go
introduce yourself to everyone.
I'm going to bring them on in
and say, this is Alistair, here's
a bit about his background.
Introduce them to the rest of the group.
And I, and I look at the
podcast as the same way.
Mind you, that sets a tone for the
podcast where now the person is
like, okay, now I've been introduced.
Here's what I got to live up to.
And it becomes a, uh, sort of an
interview question answers kind of format.
And I've always loved the, the back
and forth that we're often able to
develop in a podcast where people
throw things right back at me.
They say the, well, that's
a really stupid question.
Let me ask you this.
Right.
And, and that's the, the beauty of the
podcast I find is, is how it can evolve.
And, you know, I'm previously right before
recording this, you were on an Instagram
live and you're with the river trust
and talking with them and talking about
great joy you've had out in swimming
in the different rivers and, uh, brings
to mind a podcast that you did talking
about, I think it was a Ted talk that
you're going to go talk at, or, or some.
Talk in the, uh, in the Netherlands
and a taxi driver picks you up
and, um, you talk him into doing
something a little bit crazy.
Did you want to talk me through this one?
If you remember this.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah,
I do remember this episode.
So I is, I, um, do quite a lot
of talks in different places.
And I, so I took the train
from London to Amsterdam.
to go speak at some boring corporate
sort of event, um, but the taxi driver
picked me up and he was driving me to
the place and it was a hot summer's
day and in the Netherlands there were a
load of canals, of course they're famous
for that, but what I noticed as we were
driving there it was a hot summer's day.
There are a load of kids and teenagers
jumping off the bridges into the canals,
and I love doing stuff like that, but I
was on my way to an important corporate
event, sensible guy, and I was with a
taxi driver, so I said, oh, oh well,
and then after a bit I was like, come
on, I really want to go jump in a
canal, not least of all because the
topic that I We're speaking about it.
These events was, Hey, just
get on and live your life.
Be adventurous, blah, blah, blah.
And there was I just sitting
in a taxi being lazy.
So I said to this guy, can we stop at the
next canal so I can jump into the canal?
And he sort of laughed and thought I
was a strange, but of course, you know,
I'm the client, he's the taxi guy.
So he kind of has to do whatever I want.
He's like, yeah, sure.
So as we drive towards the next
one, then I say, Have you ever
jumped in one of these canals?
He said, no, no, I've
never done that before.
I thought, right, why don't you join me?
So he's like, okay.
And I was delighted that he was just
willing to grasp it and say, okay.
So we stopped the car and we both
got out of the car and we just had
to strip down to our boxer shorts.
Jump off a fairly high
bridge into the canal.
It was fantastic.
We laughed and I think we did it two or
three times and then we just had to get
dressed, get back in the car and drive on.
And it was a lovely little experience,
but you know, I, I do that sort of
thing a lot, so I enjoyed it, but
it wasn't that big a deal to me.
This guy sent me.
An email afterwards.
This was amazing.
And then he sent me an email a
year later with a photo of us.
Like, wow, do you remember
when we did this together?
And I just thought that was so fantastic
that he'd also really appreciated that.
And who knows, maybe he'd got
some other clients to go jump
in rivers at other points.
So yeah, it was a lovely experience.
Travis Bader: It's got to
be one of the most memorable
taxi rides I'm sure he's had.
I got to wonder, was he still on the clock
when he was jumping in, or did he turn the
clock or the cab off when he was jumping?
Alastair Humphreys: I
hope he was on the clock.
Also, when, uh, when we were about to
jump in, this guy, uh, he's a tax driver.
He had massive muscles
and a huge six pack.
He made me feel like a real
scrawny little wimpy guy
Travis Bader: next to him.
Oh man.
You know, that's what, it's amazing
what we can accomplish in life and the
adventures that we can have if we just
open our mind up to being acceptable
to them, um, to being open to them.
And that's really what you're pushing.
If I gather correctly with
micro adventures, changing the
perspective of what an adventure is.
And harnessing that same sort of thing
that you would feel on one of your epic
massive adventures without having to
break the bank, without having to really
travel too far from home and maybe
even get it done before you go to work.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, absolutely.
So I think a lot of people, hopefully
people listening to this podcast
enjoy the idea of adventure, you
know, they were talking about crossing
oceans and cycling across continents.
And it's quite fun to listen to these sort
of stories like, Oh, that sounds great.
But it's kind of also not really
very helpful for real people in
real lives with real jobs and
real commitments and families and
mortgages and all that sort of stuff.
So it struck me that there was a
bit of a disconnect here between
the number of people who like the
idea of adventures versus those who
have the opportunities to do it.
So I wondered if I could somehow try and
bridge the gap between the two to take all
this good stuff of adventure that we all
love and somehow make it compatible with.
busy real life to find short, simple,
local, affordable alternatives to
the big adventures I was doing.
So what I've started to do is always was
then was to just think what opportunities
for adventure can you find in your day?
Not what barriers are getting in the way.
So don't complain about, Oh,
I've got the nine to five job.
I can't do it.
Ask yourself, well, what
about the five to nine?
When I finished work in the
evening, what can I do until?
I have to go back to
work the next morning.
Maybe I can fit something in then.
And don't think, oh, I haven't got enough
money to row across the Atlantic, say.
Instead think, oh, wow, I've
got 50 bucks in my pocket.
I wonder, maybe I could get a train
to some place I've never been to a few
hours away and walk home this weekend.
What, what advent, what
opportunities are there, not
what obstacles stand in the way.
So.
Yeah, my adventures, um, over
the last 10 years, it just got
smaller and smaller and smaller.
And then hopefully at the same time
become more accessible and relatable
to more people so that people not only
enjoy hearing about adventures, but they
now have more opportunities and fewer
excuses not to go do them for themselves.
Travis Bader: When you're doing your
podcast and you were asking people
what it was like to live adventurously,
uh, what was a common thread?
Was there a common
thread that you'd found?
What was the thing that would drive people
to want to live a more adventurous life?
Alastair Humphreys: I think
the people that I was speaking
to were quite willing to.
go against the herd.
So not just to do the stuff that
society deemed was normal or expected.
So perhaps a streak of individuality
and eccentricity and a willingness to
walk their own path and quite a strong
awareness that time is very short and
for all of us and yet Well, any of us
who are listening to this podcast, we're
on the privileged end of global society.
And if we don't make the most
of that incredible, um, lottery
winning ticket of birth, then
it'd be a bit of a shame, really.
So I think it's about just not caring
what other people think, being honest
about what you personally feel is
important and fulfilling and adventurous.
And then Making it happen
because time is ticking.
So, um, yeah, time is ticking.
That that's certainly something
that has driven me to a lot of my
projects is I have an idea and then
I'm thinking, well, let's just get
on with it because time is ticking.
Travis Bader: Do you keep that
sense of mortality in your,
uh, your head at all times?
The whole momentum Mori sort of concept.
Alastair Humphreys: Um, as I was saying
that then I realized that I haven't said
that for a few years and it certainly
used to be a really big driver for me,
but I think as I'm a mellowing, I'm
getting more accepting and I'm less
driven and ambitious, I think, than, than
I was a bunch of years ago, but there's
a fantastic website called death clock.
and you type into it, your, your age,
your gender, your height, your weight,
whether or not you smoke and it calculates
for you the day that you will die.
Um, which is sort of depressing, but I
personally find it really inspiring and
I actually have it in my calendar, my
Google calendar of, uh, on this date,
I am dead and all following dates.
Um, and I put it in for a bit
of a joke, but actually it's
quite serious for me now.
It's like anything that
I want to get done.
Has to get done before this date
that's in my calendar because after
that I'm, I'm busy being dead for
the rest of the existing universe.
So, uh, it is the deadline.
Travis Bader: Do you remember what
that date is off top of your head?
Alastair Humphreys: It's
alarmingly, it's alarmingly soon.
It's, it's, I don't remember the
date, but it's, it's much sooner
than I would like it to be.
Travis Bader: You know, my
grandfather died when he was 56.
I never met him, but I saw pictures
of him and, Oh, look at that old man.
Right.
56.
It sounds like a good ripe old age to go.
Now that I'm getting older, I'm like.
Man, that was pretty young
in the scheme of things.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
Yeah.
That's scary, isn't
Travis Bader: it?
Totally.
Yeah.
Being able to, um, get things accomplished
while there's still light of day is
definitely, uh, a motivator for many.
Um, it's funny that you'd say that that
was something that really sort of drove
you, but you're starting to mellow
and, uh, it's not on your head as much.
Is that because you feel you've gotten
those key pieces accomplished or
is it because your perspective on.
Death is changing.
Alastair Humphreys: Um, just incidentally,
while you're asking me that question, I
quickly typed into my Google calendar,
uh, death, and I've got it scheduled
in for the 8th of September, 2055, and
it says my death day one, uh, and then
9th of September, my death day two.
So yeah, if you want to call
me, you've got to do it for 8th
of September, 2055, because I'm
pretty busy after that being dead.
Um, so I, I think, I think
things have changed for me.
Through a conscious.
A conscious effort to try to
make myself be less ambitious.
So my ambition has to become less
ambitious to accept more that what I've
got is good enough and to appreciate
what I've got and to be tried to be
driven by some of those sort of internal
values around the external goals and
targets of, Oh, just one more adventure,
one more book, blah, blah, blah.
So it's been a conscious effort to
just sort of slow down and accept
what I have and that enough is enough.
Travis Bader: So a lot of people listening
to this, I'm sure would be intrigued
by the adventures that you've been on
and intrigued by the fact that micro
adventures maybe isn't something that's
even been on their radar in the past,
but they also might come up with some.
You know, maybe you've seen it, some
common barriers or misconceptions
that might prevent them from
embarking on a micro adventure.
Have you seen many misconceptions or
barriers that would prevent a person and
how would you suggest they overcome that?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
So I started to take micro
adventures quite seriously, um,
Geez, quite a long time ago, 10
years, more than 10 years ago.
And I'd send out some questionnaires
to people like what's stopping
you having adventures?
And I'd get hundreds and
hundreds of replies to these.
So essentially the two big ones are
a lack of time or a lack of money.
Generally in life, you either
don't have enough time or
you don't have enough money.
There's generally a period
for one of those two things.
Um, then, Um, a perceived
lack of expertise.
Oh, it's okay for you
to have an adventure.
Uh, I can't do that because
I'm too young, too old, too
thin, too heavy, too old, too.
What I'm not fit enough, all
these sorts of perceived things.
Um, whereas what I'm trying to
emphasize with micro ventures is.
Do what you can with what you've got.
Sure, you might not be able to climb
Mount Everest, but for you, maybe
climbing that hill that you can see
from your office window that you've
never been to before, maybe that's
your personal version of Everest.
So that's one thing.
And then the fourth is um, geographical.
So people think Oh, I can't
have an adventure cause I
live in boring old Britain.
If I only lived in Vancouver, then
I'd have these wonderful adventures.
Whereas of course there'll be loads
of people in Vancouver thinking, Oh,
boring old Canada been in all my life.
If only I could go to England,
that'd be a real adventure.
So try to try to get the, into your mind.
The idea that just try and seek wildness
and nature close to where you live.
Don't just wish that you lived
in a log cabin in Patagonia.
Just do what you can.
So they're the four chief things that
I come up against time and again.
But the two biggest by far are
lack of time or lack of money.
Travis Bader: Isn't it funny,
the, uh, the doctrine of distance.
And we talk about that in the, so
I, I run a training company as well.
And we talk about that in training
and people will bring in an instructor
from another province or another
state going into the, uh, The United
States there, well, they must be good.
Cause look at how far they're coming from.
Oh, but if you get one from the UK, well
now we got, we got a heavy hitter now.
Cause look at how far they've come.
The doctrine of distance and the same
thing applies to going on an adventure.
It's like, Oh yeah, look at, look
at all these beautiful places that
we've got posters on the wall of that.
And one day I'm going to get out
and I'm going to check this out.
And the amount of absolutely beautiful
places that are right here in our
backyard, when you just kind of look
around a little bit is, is pretty crazy.
I think that's a really good distinction
that people can make is having that
passion and joy in their hearts
for something that is accessible.
It's right here, right in your backyard.
Alastair Humphreys: I, I
think you're exactly right.
I was talking, um, to someone a while ago
about how I've been exploring the local
map that I live on and I found interesting
little things close to where I live.
And this person said to
me, yeah, that's fine.
But where I live, I live in Kansas.
This is so boring.
There's nothing to see here.
And I just said, I've
never been to Kansas.
If you suddenly dropped me now in the
middle of Kansas, I'd be so interested.
Like, wow, look at this.
There's a giant cornfields or I
don't know, a cafe selling pancakes.
I don't know what I'd find, but
that would be so interesting.
The very fact that he
listened to me saying.
There is interesting stuff where you live.
And he'd said, yet, yet that's true,
but not for me because where I live
is boring, really, really struck me.
Travis Bader: That's funny.
You know, uh, haven't done it in a
while and I probably should, but I used
to go to the bookstore and I'd take a
look at, um, uh, what were they like
the lonely planet, or they had things
like Europe on a shoestring or all
these different kinds of travel books.
And I'd look at ones.
For my area and I'd go through and I'd
take notes of different things and then
I'd go out and I'd check that out because,
you know, growing up, I had no money.
And that was, that was
something that was fun.
It was kind of neat, but you, it, if I'm
having a difficult time looking at it from
a An outsider's perspective, just going
to those websites or going to those books.
Cause when I was doing it, we didn't
have websites, but, uh, uh, was
something that helped me get out there.
Alastair Humphreys: I did exactly
the same thing when I got home
from cycling around the world,
having just been in 60 countries.
When I'm in a foreign country,
I find everything interesting.
Wow.
Wow.
Look, look how the supermarkets work.
Oh, so interesting.
The school buses are
yellow in this country.
I'm just, I find everything
interesting in other countries.
And when I get home, I'm home.
So when I got home from cycle around the
world, one of the first things I did was
buy the lonely planet guide to Britain
and the lonely planet guide to London for
exactly the same reasons as you just said,
to make myself remember, to be curious
and have that curious traveller's eye.
Right here at home,
Travis Bader: one thing that I found, and
maybe you found the same thing is when
traveling, particularly traveling solo.
I love to travel solo just because
you learn a lot about yourself and
you can learn a lot about things
and be put into situations that you
might not otherwise be put in if
you're in a group, but the number of
people that would reach out and say.
Oh, hey, um, you need a place to stay?
I got a place you can come to,
to my place to stay tonight.
Oh, what are you doing for dinner tonight?
My treat, come on out.
I just want to practice.
English, and I was always a little
suspect and I tend to say, no, no, no, no.
I'm fine.
Even though again, broke, I would save
money on accommodations by sleeping
on trains or finding a little place
where I could, uh, make a little camp.
And so that way I'd have some
money to be able to pay for
those trains or pay for the food.
You wouldn't find that same sort
of interaction in our own backyard.
It's not like I walk around Vancouver
and people are like, Oh, you look hungry.
hungry or you want a place to stay and
you get this idea that people where I'm at
aren't friendly, people where I'm at just
aren't as open, but maybe, maybe it's you.
Have you found this?
Alastair Humphreys: So I've got a really
good example of exactly this dilemma.
Uh, so, um, one of my earliest micro
adventures actually, although now I
look back, it's actually quite big for a
micro adventure, but I decided to walk.
Right the way around London.
There's a road, a big motorway, a
big freeway that goes in a circle
around London called the M 25.
It's full of traffic.
It goes through endless boring suburbia.
Everyone hates it.
And I decided to walk a lap
of it to try and show that you
can find adventure anywhere.
And hey, maybe there's
some beauty along the way.
So, um, I did that in January It was
snowy and cold, but I had quite a
big rucksack, backpack on, with my
tent, I was camping along the way.
So, I'd get to these completely ordinary
English towns, the sort of places
that I've spent, I mean, all the time.
But suddenly I'd be walking into the cafe
or the pub with my huge backpack on and my
tent and like Suddenly I look different.
I was an interesting, exotic arrival.
And suddenly people like, Hey
stranger, tell us where you're from.
Tell me your story here.
Let me buy you breakfast.
Uh, it's really cold outside tonight.
Why don't you put your
tent up in my garden?
The sort of stuff that never
happens to be normal in Britain.
But because I was suddenly
different, I was an adventurer.
I was on a journey.
People responded to that.
Um, so yeah, that was an exact test of
the theory you just, you just mentioned.
Travis Bader: That's really cool for, for
me, that's, uh, one of the coolest things
about, about traveling is just meeting
the people, seeing the cultures and being
open to those sorts of experiences, being
able to have that in your own backyard.
That's pretty cool.
So are you able to share?
A personal micro adventure that was, uh,
impactful for you, meaningful for you.
Was there one that really stands out?
Well,
Alastair Humphreys: that was certainly
the walking around London was a
really pivotal one for me because
I, I, um, I did it to try and prove.
One point.
And the point I was trying to prove was
that you don't need to go to the end of
the world to have some sort of physical
challenge and a bit of an adventure.
And it was interesting in that regard.
At the same time, I did kind of
think it was going to be a pretty
ugly, fairly boring sort of journey
through boring suburban towns.
And it's true.
I mean, there are a lot of
boring, ugly suburban towns.
But what I realized on this walk was
that between these towns are fields and
little rivers and bits of woodland and
stuff, which I'd never noticed before.
Cause in the car, you just zoom
from one town to the next and.
I hadn't seen these things because
I'd not been looking for them.
And they, that made me realize that there
was much more nature and wildness, even
in a fairly built up place like Southeast
of England than I'd ever realized before.
And that then got me, uh, Into
the idea of, wow, I can find
rivers to swim in or hills to camp
in or, or woods to go running.
And I can find these everywhere.
I really don't need to go all the
way to, um, Alberta to, to find
a bit of peace and wilderness.
Travis Bader: Now there's always
going to be those that are risk
adverse, or those who don't want to
go into the wild because they figure
there's going to be a bear there.
They don't want to swim in
the ocean because they figured
there'll be a shark in there.
Maybe they live in an area where sharks
or bears are around, but even if they
are, the odds are really in their favor
that they're going to be just fine.
Um, do you find that that
is an obstacle for people?
Like, and it's particularly in a micro
adventure because all of a sudden they're
unknown or that the scary thing might
be, might be other people might be.
urban dangers.
Is that something that you've encountered
or an objection you've heard from people?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, that's
an absolutely enormous one.
Um, and what, what I think people
tend to neglect in their thinkings.
They worry, Oh, if I go out and, uh, swim
in this river, then a shark might eat me.
And that would be really bad.
And they, and they worry about that.
But people don't pause to think
that if I don't swim in that river,
then I will miss out on that.
joyful experience of having swum
in the river and my life will be
slightly diminished because of that.
So people don't seem to, and to me
that seems like a really big risk.
That, I mean, that's really risking
my life that it's, I'm making my life
worse by not swimming in that river.
And what a tragedy that is because
I've got my death in my calendar, so I
better get on and swim in that river.
So I think, I think there
is that aspect to it.
Um, but I think though, also to
be fair to, to be maybe kinder
to people, there's um, there's an
a nervousness about the unknown.
And I think that I sometimes downplay that
because I've been lucky enough to have
spent many years actively pursuing the
unknown and sort of choosing uncertainty.
And I didn't find that easy at first.
I was often very nervous and worried,
but, uh, but then I felt great when I had.
done that pushed myself to do that.
And I think like any sort of exercise,
you flex the muscle and it grows.
So, so I do now have quite a lot of
confidence that I quite happily land in
any country in the world or wandering to
any wood and I have an interesting time.
So I've got the habit of that.
So what I would encourage people
who sort of like the idea,
but have too many negative.
worries is to just think
of a smaller option.
So you don't want to go sleep on that hill
for the night because it's a bit scary.
So, okay, don't just do nothing.
Shrink it down.
Maybe sleep in your backyard for the
night, which sounds kind of silly.
But I used to love doing that when I
was a child, just sleeping outside.
And you know, I've done it now as
an adult and I feel a bit silly just
taking my bedding out from my house
and lying down in my, in my backyard.
It feels a bit silly, but actually once
you're there, you know, you see the
stars, you can hear the birds in the
trees and the wind blowing and things.
And in many ways you're getting,
let's say, 80 percent of the benefits
of a wilderness camping experience,
but only having you had to go two
meters from your front door with the
benefit that if it rains, you can
just go inside and go back to bed.
So the good, so then you do that.
Someone does that.
They'll think, Oh, that was good.
I enjoyed that.
It's worth me being a bit bolder to
try something a bit braver next time.
So I think if something seems too
daunting and difficult rather than doing
nothing, just try and find a smaller,
shorter, simpler option until you can
overcome your internal worries about it.
Travis Bader: That's brilliant.
You know, I got to imagine that I'm trying
to put myself into your mental headspace
prior to cycling around the world.
I'm trying to put myself in
your mental headspace prior
to rowing across the Atlantic.
I would think that the, uh, trepidation
of rowing across the Atlantic would be
higher than the trepidation of embarking
on a cycling trip across the world.
Is that, is that fair?
Or would you say that there's
maybe equal, but different, uh, um.
Thoughts going through your head.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
I would say that very, very different
feelings that really, so my, my
worries about going around the world
were really about getting murdered by
horrible, scary foreigners, because I'd
learned from reading, from reading the
newspapers and watching the TV news.
I knew that foreigners and all these other
countries were horrible, scary people.
So that was my, that was my worry, really.
Before I started cycling.
And then of course, once I actually
started visiting these foreign countries,
I realized that everyone was just nice
and normal, like they were back home.
And what on earth was all the fuss about?
So my worries about, um, cycling around
the world were very much premeditated.
No, not what they were done
before the, before the trip.
And they were totally and utterly wrong.
Um, my fears about rowing the Atlantic
were more about, uh, falling off the
boat in the night and drowning or
getting capsizing in a huge storm and
falling off the boat and drowning.
And, and, and that then led
onto the notion of perceived
dangers versus actual dangers.
Because the reality is when you're
rowing across the Atlantic, as long
as you keep your safety harness
on and you keep clipped onto the
safety line, you're pretty safe.
You know, you're not going to
fall off, off the boat and drown.
And then if you just sat in the boat
for a few months, you would drift
across the ocean to the other side.
So The perceived risks were high, but
the actual dangers were quite low.
And I think that's a
sign of a good adventure.
Something that gets you worried
and nervous, but actually, if
you plan it and do it properly,
it's actually quite a safe thing.
Because adventurous people love
being alive, so you don't want to do
something reckless and stupid and die.
So, um, uh, yeah, they were very
different things I was worried about.
Travis Bader: See, I would
find, and this is perfect segue
into where I'm going with this.
And you probably, uh, saw where
I was going with that to begin
with, but you know, I would find.
Like at a young age, I would look at
these rivers and look at the white water.
And man, that's kind of scary.
And how can someone go through that?
But, you know, maybe I'll just go on
the real side of the water and I'll try
swimming down beside the, the white water.
And I did that and maybe I'll put a little
inflatable boat in and I'll go down.
Hey, that wasn't too bad.
Maybe I'll roll it out into the center.
All of a sudden, I'm getting
a little bit more comfortable,
a little bit more comfortable.
I ended up, uh, rafting most of the,
uh, the major navigable rivers around
here, uh, ended up purchasing a
whitewater raft, a commercial one after
almost drowning a couple of times.
Uh, prior to that, it was a 20
Canadian tire, which is an outdoor
story all across chain store over
here and, uh, no life jacket.
Maybe I had a few beers in a backpack
tied to it and, uh, Then it was a World
War II inflatable that, uh, purchased at
a, at a gun show that we ended up having
to make, we called it a shower cap.
So that, uh, cause we
ripped the bottom out of it.
And so we had a bit of a bucket boat,
but always progressing up and up.
But there's this feeling prior to
going in that I would have even going
into the, uh, side of the water when
I was, cause I was never a great
swimmer, which I've learned to overcome.
When I just kind of swam or floated
down the side, there's those nerves.
Then when I started going out into the
bigger white water or start swimming
through that, there's those nerves and
eventually you get more used to it.
So I guess this whole roundabout
question statement is, do you
still get that on micro adventures?
Alastair Humphreys: No, not really.
So, micro, I love micro adventures,
uh, but this, and they, they act as
a substitute for a lot of adventurous
type stuff in my life, but no, they
don't, they, they don't do that.
for me so that I don't get that
side of the adventuring from
doing the small local things.
But when an interesting, um,
well, maybe interesting, you
can decide this is interesting.
I realized that over, overdoing
lots of expedition things, you
start to become comfortable with it.
You start to become competent.
You realize you're
probably going to see you.
If you do things sensibly, you're going
to get from A to B and you'll succeed.
And I started to realize that perhaps
in my own way, These adventures
were actually not that adventurous.
They were almost just me in my comfort
zone, just sticking to what I'm good at
and maybe to get back to that fear and
adrenaline and the uncertainty I needed
to really look differently at adventure.
So I, um, I decided to retrace the,
one of my favorite books, a book from
the 1930s about this young British guy
who walks through Spain playing his
violin to earn money along the way.
I can't play the violin at all, but I
decided this is what I'm going to do.
I had six months of violin lessons.
I sounded like a strangled cat.
It was horrible, but I spent a
month walking through Spain with
no money, no credit card and only
the violin to earn me some money.
And I personally found standing up
in little village plazas, little
squares to play the violin absolutely
terrifying, at least as terrifying
as rowing the Atlantic ocean.
But, um, but it was a different way of
trying to get that uncertainty and fear.
And, and I think, I think a good.
Example of how we can all
address what adventurous living
means in quite different ways.
Travis Bader: I really like that example.
You know, and you're right.
I mean, you start setting these goals
and these adventures and the, you
find yourself in your comfort zone.
People would say, wow, you're
rafting these big rivers.
Isn't that an adrenaline exercise?
No, no, it's actually
really, really relaxing.
And it's really, it's really
the opposite of adrenaline.
Every once in a while, you find
yourself in a bit of a predicament and
there might be a short stint of, uh,
okay, we need some action quick here.
But no, it's extremely relaxing, but
in that same breath, um, I also found I
was getting complacent as I went out and
kept pushing myself and I would push that
whole risk reward envelope a bit more.
Just so I could kind of get that feeling.
Is that something that you've experienced?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, absolutely, and
it is actually one of the chief reasons
why I decided to reconsider Adventure
Adventure, to think about hey, perhaps
playing the violin is an adventure, or
perhaps encouraging people to sleep on a
hill, that's adventure because The, the,
uh, the line you're pursuing there just
eventually is going to lead to disaster.
If you keep just pushing and pushing
and pushing, eventually you're going
to go jump off a higher and higher
cliff until eventually it goes wrong.
So, uh, I didn't want to just be
heading down that route and I prefer
to just try and start trying to
think a bit more laterally about the
way I was going to go about things.
Travis Bader: So one question I've
asked myself is at what point am I
being smart and at what point am I
being kind of chicken and not living?
That's always that little
thing that I'm kind of, uh.
Uh, juggling with like, I
want to push, I want to live.
You want to do these exciting things.
No, I've got a family.
I've got a couple of kids.
They depend on me.
I got to make sure I do
things in a smart way.
So where is that balance
in the same breath?
I don't want to be living a life
that's risk adverse and teaching
my children to be risk adverse.
Cause I think that's the worst thing
that I could possibly do for them.
Is that something that you juggle with?
Alastair Humphreys: Absolutely.
And there's a very fine
line between recklessness.
And bravery, very fine line.
The trouble is that you don't know where
the line is until you've gone across it.
And, uh, yeah, increasingly, again,
perhaps as I'm just becoming an old
man, I just felt that that pushing
that line eventually was just going
to lead to something bad happening.
And, and, and the rewards for
pushing that line diminish as well.
And, and, and also I've done it quite
a few times, perhaps it might be more
interesting to have a look at different
ways of going about things, so yeah,
step, consciously stepping away from that
route was a, has been a conscious choice.
Travis Bader: Have you had close calls?
Alastair Humphreys: Uh, not, not really.
And not many, to be honest.
Um, so, um, I got mugged at gunpoint
in Siberia, but then the guy, once I'd
given him my wallet, uh, I was lost.
So I then got out my map and
he helped me navigate back
to where I was wanting to go.
So there's some, there's
some good in good.
Good sides in everyone.
Um, and,
Travis Bader: uh, sorry, can you say that?
Can you say that one again?
You were mugged at gunpoint
and the same guy helped you?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
So I was in, uh, Siberia in the,
in the winter time on my bike.
It was very cold.
It was dark, minus 40 degrees
and, uh, um, a car stopped.
Um, a very, um, a couple
of very drunk guys got out.
One of them's waving his gun around.
Give me your money, give me your money.
So of course you give them some money.
I had a little decoy wallet for exactly
this circumstance with a little bit
of money and just to appease them.
And he's like, Oh, great.
I've got your money.
And then I'm like, Oh, excuse me.
While, uh, while, while you're
taking my wallet, can you, um.
Give me some direction.
So I got the map out and then
the Russian people, when I cycled
through Russia were so kind
generally that he was like, Oh yeah.
And he's helped with the
navigation and they got into the
car and drove off with my wallet.
So, um, yeah, I found that a very
interesting human experience.
Travis Bader: That, yeah, that is funny.
I think you're going to see,
you're going to give another
example there before I cut you off.
Alastair Humphreys: Well, the other
example is, is more, um, very much
from your sort of world, really,
when I was, um, crossing Iceland
by packraft and there was a stretch
of whitewater rapids, which looked,
definitely looked beyond my skill level.
I was with a friend at the
time, Canadian guy, actually.
And we were.
Wrecking the room, walking up and down.
And we had kind of had that gut
feeling of, Hmm, this is beyond this.
We shouldn't do it.
And then I sort of uttered the immortal
words of think how great this will
look on YouTube, which then got, which
then got my vanity and my ego going.
And so I decided to packraft it.
The moment I got into the
current, I realized I was totally,
totally out of my skill level.
And I flipped and it was
terrifying and absolutely horrific.
I managed to get to the shore and
then I was frantically blowing on
my little whistle to stop Chris
coming down the river afterwards.
And I learned, I learned
an important lesson.
Then I also had forgotten to press go
on the camera, so I didn't even get it
on YouTube, but it proved to me a really
important lesson that I've used many
times since, which is, would I do this
thing if nobody else found out about it?
I, am I doing this adventure
for myself or am I doing it
to show off later on YouTube?
So again, is this an intrinsic thing
driven by me or is it a external
sort of validation that I'm after?
So yeah, don't do stuff just
to look good on YouTube.
Travis Bader: Do it for the gram, right?
No, that's really good advice.
Did you know in your gut
before going through there
that this wasn't a good idea?
Alastair Humphreys: Yes,
yes, I definitely did.
And then I certainly did within about five
seconds of paddling out into the current.
Um, yeah, it was just way,
way, I was completely, yeah.
And then as you will well know, once
you're out in the middle of the current.
You're in it.
You kind of got to go for it.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: You know, I, uh, I remember
I had a, uh, this is prior to getting
the commercial whitewater raft and
there is a local river around here.
That's that's run commercially,
but the commercial guys weren't
running it at this point because
I guess it was a bit too rough.
And I was doing promotions
for a, uh, Corona beer company
that brought in Corona beer.
So had this.
Jeep all deckled out and Corona stuff
and they give you a digital camera
and which is brand new kind of stuff
at the time and they were given away
this, uh, inflatable boat all deckled
out with Corona stuff on there.
And I thought maybe I'll just borrow
this boat and I'll take it down.
The river and anyways, we
drive out to the river.
I'm there with a buddy of mine.
He's got the digital camera.
Um, he looks, he says, I'm not doing this.
This is, this is too, it's too rough.
The water is going too fast.
And, uh, there's kayakers that came
in that we're looking at and they're
like, yeah, no, we're not doing this.
And I look at over at my buddy.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
This is the safest I've ever seen it.
Because I started getting of this
mindset that, Like quite often when
it looks really bad, it isn't bad.
And it's these things that don't
look bad are the things that you
kind of got to watch out for.
Like when you see the water
bubbling up and down and over,
generally you'll be like a cork
and you can float over all of that.
It's strainers and, um, recircs
and these sorts of things that
you kind of have to watch out for.
Anyways.
I said, tell you what I'm going to
put in, in the roughest area of this.
I'm going to show you how safe this is.
And then once I've convinced you of
this, we'll, we'll just go down the
river in, in the, in the less rough area.
Anyways, I'm walking down the, the side,
the riverside to get into the river.
He's got the camera.
He's going to take pictures
all the way through.
And for whatever reason,
like, you know, I was.
Raised Catholic.
I wouldn't say I'm a religious guy,
but for whatever reason, I do a sign
of the cross before getting into
the, uh, into the river and I think
deep down, I knew in my head that
what I was doing was stupid, but you
know, young, dumb ego, all the rest.
And so I look at it, I, I scout
my line that I'm going to take.
I got these goofy little oars
on, on this, uh, inflatable
boat and get them all set up.
I've actually got a life jacket
on now because, uh, another.
Company had given me a life jacket.
We used to put in where the commercial
guys put in and we'd try and follow
them so we could see the safe way to go.
And maybe they're safety kayakers
would take pity if we, if we got
into trouble and they'd rescue us.
Anyways, I put in same
as you way too fast.
It was cold.
The boat deflates a bit, um, immediately
the paddles are not worth anything
and I'm hands and feet trying to
paddle over to get on my line.
I don't make it to my line, I'm sucked
into a re circ, then I'm sucked into
a bigger re circ afterwards, I end
up losing the boat, I almost lost
my life, I remember I'm passing out
I guess, cause you're losing oxygen
was your, they say don't panic.
I didn't feel like I was panicking.
I just felt like I was working as
hard as I could to get up and out.
I'm making every letter of the
alphabet, trying to touch some
green water to pull me out because
the white water is so aerated.
Anyways, my buddy's standing
on the rock, taking pictures.
He's like, I didn't know what to do.
I couldn't jump in and help you.
There's nothing I could do.
The only thing going through my head was
if you don't make it on this one, the
camera's going in the river too, because I
don't want to be the guy who took pictures
of his buddy drowning on the river.
Anyways, I, uh, ended up getting spit out.
I was going to swim over to the
other side where the, my line was
and where my head was, and I looked
over to my left and I said, closer,
I'm going to swim as hard as I can.
I won't give up until I get to shore.
And despite all of that, the second that
my body got into an area where it was.
Calmer and I wasn't really
affected by the flow of the river.
It collapsed on my buddy, drags
me out and I'm throwing up
water and coughing out water.
But, uh, yeah, funny, funny.
Um, yeah.
How that works.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
I think there's a good reason
that women live longer than men.
They're less stupid.
Travis Bader: That's it.
And that's all it is.
And again, it was ego.
We didn't have Instagram.
We didn't have YouTube at the time,
but, uh, but we had a digital camera and
these pictures are going to look good.
Oh, well, um, is there anything else
that we should be talking about, about
your new book, about micro adventures?
Is there anything that we should be.
Uh, letting people know about that.
We haven't already.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, I guess, I guess
I'd like to, um, just explain a bit how
I went from these massive, big global
adventures onto small micro adventures,
trying to encourage people to just get out
at the weekend to what I've been spending
the last year doing, which is going even.
Smaller and more local than ever
to, I committed to trying to
spend just one year on the small
map that I live on in Britain.
We've got these little,
these sort of hiking maps.
Um, they, they, um, measure
about 20 kilometers by 20
kilometers, a really small area.
And I decided to go out once
a week to explore a single
one kilometer grid square.
So one kilometer by one kilometer, try and
see everything in that square once a week.
What would happen?
And I was a bit worried that I might
be a bit bored doing it and a bit
claustrophobic But I soon realized that
there was just once you slow down and
pay attention and be curious Decide
consciously decide that I'm going
to be interested in everything then
suddenly everything becomes interesting
and What I thought was going to be
quite a boring year turned into one
of the most fascinating Uh, journeys
and learning experiences of my life.
So I'm on a big mission at the moment
to get everyone to just buy the
local map for where they live and
go out and find what adventure and
wildness is right on your doorstep
within a few miles of where you live.
It's been a really eye opening experience.
Travis Bader: You know, my
wife got me into foraging.
Um, I wasn't really into it.
She's loves gardening,
foraging, all the rest.
And she's like, there's this
guy, he's got a book out.
He's got a few books out.
Hank, Sean, we're meeting up with them.
Actually, we're going to go down to
California, Sierra Nevada mountain range
and going to do some foraging with them.
So we went out, we did that and
started really opening my eyes to
like, we went out in the forest, we're
doing morels, looking at wild onions
and garlics and we're pine nuts.
And, and in your head, you're like,
okay, you got to go to these exotic
places and look at all these cool things
that you can forage, but then when I
started to become a bit more aware.
You can make salads out of stuff
you find growing out of your
sidewalk right by your house.
And this, this sounds like a very
similar sort of a, uh, an analogy.
What would, can you walk me through
what a day in adventuring locally,
that micro local adventure would
Alastair Humphreys: look like?
Yeah, so, so I was limited to this
one kilometer by one kilometer.
And I would try to go and see every
footpath or, um, hiking trail on there
or some quite often they were towns.
So then I'd try and cycle down every
single street within this little area.
But the countryside
ones, it's interesting.
You mentioned the forager as a sort
of teacher to open your eyes because
I was doing this on my own, but I used
an app called seek made by iNaturalist.
And it's one of those apps where you
pointed at a plant and it tells you the
name of what you're, what you're seeing.
And then suddenly went, ah,
I learned the name of this.
thing.
And then you start to see
it all over the place.
And I'd come home late and
Google it and realize, Hey,
you can put that into a salad.
So exactly like you teach, but
here teaching myself through an
app was starting to learn about
all this nature around me, which
I'd spent my entire life ignoring.
Cause I just thought Britain was
boring and I needed to go to the ends
of the world to have an adventure.
So yeah, it was, it was, it was
an exercise in slowing down.
I try and take lots of photos and
try and take really nice artistic.
photos again, just to make me pay
attention, to notice things, to
look at things in different ways.
So, you know, maybe I'd find the
car that had been burned out and
the police had been put a tape
around like police have been here.
And I try and take beautiful photos of
stuff like that as well, just to make
myself be interested in, in everything.
And the more you become interested in
stuff, the more you find, there's even
more to learn and even more to learn.
And suddenly.
One small kilometre started to
feel absolutely enormous and one
small map felt way too big for
a single year of exploration.
So yeah, it was a really interesting
self educational experience, I guess.
Travis Bader: That approach
sounds like ADHD heaven.
There's always new things.
There's always new hobbies.
There's always new, uh, avenues
that you can start exploring.
And speaking of apps,
have you tried geocaching?
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah.
Geocaching is along the same
sort of lines, isn't it?
Of it, it's just an excuse to go
somewhere you've never been before
and to pay attention and be curious.
And then you get excited.
You find a little plastic tub
with some little bits of rubbish.
And it's not the reward.
Isn't that, is it?
The reward is.
Going somewhere new.
Um, and that's a very similar
sort of spirit to, uh, to
what I was doing with my maps.
Yeah, I think geocaching is a
brilliant thing for people to
take their kids to do, isn't it?
Just to get them out into the outdoors.
Travis Bader: Oh, totally.
Yeah.
It's a lot of fun.
Maybe you find it.
Maybe you don't.
Maybe someone's moved it, but
at the very least you're outside
or you're in a different area.
Maybe in a little urban area outside.
Um, are there other apps that you use?
You mentioned that Seek app.
Alastair Humphreys:
Yeah, Seek was brilliant.
The other one that I found
fantastic is called Merlin.
And Merlin listens to birdsong and tells
you the name of what you're listening to.
And I, I always like birdsong,
of course, it's kind of nice to
hear birds, but suddenly I'm like,
Oh wow, that's a chiff chaff.
And then I Google it and it's like
a tiny little thing that weighs six
grams and it's flown all the way
from Africa to be in England, to
be in this little bush in the park.
Wow.
That's incredible.
I just heard it going chiff chaff.
Never paid any attention.
And then now I learned the name of,
I learned the name of this little
dude and suddenly I care about it.
So yeah, Merlin has been really good.
Travis Bader: That's a cool one.
Yeah.
Merlin makes me is reminiscent
of that old handheld game.
I don't know if you
guys ever had that one.
It's a little.
It looks like a red telephone.
My grandparents had one
and he pressed the buttons.
You can play tic tac toe or all the
different anyways that, uh, Merlin.
I think we're showing
Alastair Humphreys: your age now, Travis.
Travis Bader: Maybe, maybe
I'm getting older here.
I tell you, um, gray hairs
are starting to come out.
Well, we'll make sure to get links to, uh,
obviously to your book, to your website.
Uh, anything else we should be
linking to that we'll throw up in
the description here for everyone.
Alastair Humphreys: No,
that would be great.
So I've just written a book
about spending a year close to
home that I've called Local.
So I think, yeah, Local would be, I'd
love it if people would read Local.
Um, then obviously I've written
Microadventures and I've written books
about, uh, cycling around the world.
I've also written books for children,
uh, one about cycling around the world.
And I turned my story of rowing the
Atlantic into a kid's book called
The Girl Who Rowed the Ocean.
Because I think we need more books
about girls having crazy adventures.
Travis Bader: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Cause there's lots of girls out
there that have crazy adventures.
That's what, you know, I'm watching
your feed and I'm liking how you
put the reviews up good and bad.
And I'm finding that not
Alastair Humphreys: good.
Jen, I don't really bother with the good
ones, but I, yeah, I put on Instagram.
I use the hashtag not very
glowing book reviews and I read
out my one star terrible reviews.
Travis Bader: It's a
very different approach.
A very refreshing approach to what
you typically find on social media.
And you took the same
approach with, uh, podcasting.
So when I first started this podcasting,
I had no idea what I was doing.
I'd been on one podcast.
I listened to one podcast live.
But aside from that, I've
never listened to a podcast.
So I got my recorder.
I got things set up.
I had a couple of friends.
We would start recording and I would
edit every, um, every, uh, every, and I
try and make it clean and professional
and the amount of work and effort that
I put into it and I found after a while.
That there not only is that a
heck of a lot of work, but that
level of perfectionism that you're
trying to put in detracts from the
realism and from the heart of what
you're trying to put out there.
And I find the same sort of thing
when you did your podcast, even your
first one, you're giving your intro.
And you had to start again
and go through it and say it.
And he says, you just left it all in.
I thought that's refreshing.
Just like when you put the not so
glowing book reviews, that's refreshing.
Is that something that you find is,
uh, you've had to learn to do, or is
that just something you've always done?
Alastair Humphreys: No, it's very.
much a learned thing to try and be grown
up and brave enough to say to the world,
Hey, I'm not perfect, or I'm not very
good at this, but I'm trying my best.
And, um, and weirdly, the more you
admit your weaknesses, the more
they kind of become superpowers.
So when I played my violin through
Spain, if you look on YouTube,
My midsummer morning on YouTube,
you'll see I'm really bad.
I'm not just being British polite.
I was terrible, but that weakness,
I'm being brave enough to just say
to the people of Spain, I'm really
bad, but I'm going to try my best.
People responded to that
and they gave me money.
I was sucked, but people
were still giving me money.
So yeah, just daring yourself
to admit to the world.
I'm not perfect.
And then actually sort of
becomes a weird superpower.
Travis Bader: I like that a lot.
Do your best every day.
Don't worry about the blemishes.
We all got them.
And in fact, sometimes it's what my
wife would always tell me, and I try
so hard to make something perfect.
She's like, perfect.
Isn't beautiful.
Alastair Humphreys: Yeah, it can be.
So I should suggest today, um, I
was looking down someone's Instagram
feed and all the pictures were
so beautiful and they all had
the same sort of color palette.
Uh, I just thought, man, this is so.
Boring, really boring.
Um, so yeah, I think, um,
yeah, I agree with that.
Perfect can be a bit
Travis Bader: boring.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Isn't beautiful.
Maybe I wonder if she's saying
something about me there.
Um, I don't know how to take that now.
All right.
Well, Alistair, uh, anything
else we should touch on?
Alastair Humphreys: No, I think,
uh, ending on your lack of beauty
and your imperfection sounds
an ideal way to wrap this up.
I
Travis Bader: like that Alistair.
Thank you so much for being
on the silver core podcast.
I really enjoyed this conversation.
Thank
Alastair Humphreys: you.
Likewise.
It's been good fun.
Thank you.