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Pull up a seat at our table, where badass women from all walks of life—fashion, beauty, design, music, philanthropy, art, and more—come together to share honest stories, serve truths, and dig into the realities of modern womanhood.
Johanna Almstea...: Hi everyone. I am menu planning for my next guest and I'm going to go kind of big and heavy. She loves good food and will actually eat good food, so I'm super excited. I'm going to do a full-blown charcuterie spread. I feel like one of the first times I met her, she was like, "This is how I like to eat," which was just like cheeses and meats and olives and pickles and gorgeous bread and yummy butter. So I'm going to go full on with a charcuterie spread, and we're going to have some prosciutto, some salamis, some nice cotta ham, some soppressata, and then some yummy cheeses, some nice reggiano and some Gouda, and just a bunch of delicious cheeses. Maybe some fig jam, some quince paste, some good good bread, some really crunchy crackers, and we're just going to go hard, because it's cold here and I'm feeling the vibes.
I think I might have some bubbles with this one, because I haven't seen her in a really long time. So I think we're going to start with a little, maybe some lambrusco, like a little bubbly red to start with our charcuterie. And then I'm going to go really hearty. I am going to cook braised short ribs for dinner. I'm going to do a really low and slow braise in red wine and a bunch of herbs, and we'll have a little bit of carrots and a little bit of pearl onions in there and a little celery in with the meat. And I'm going to serve that over a creamy Parmesan polenta. So I love, love polenta, and I'm going to do a creamy polenta with a little bit of Parmesan in it. And then we're going to put the braised short rib over top of it with the veggies that cooked with the meat, and it's going to be delicious.
And on the side of that, I'm going to do just a green salad, a really simple butter leaf salad, maybe a couple of shallots in there, but a nice bright vinaigrette on there, like a red wine vinaigrette just as a way to sort of counterbalance the heavier foods. And some big crusty bread. And I think we'll open a big red, maybe a super Tuscan red to have with our short ribs.
And for music, I'm going to throw it back a little bit to the time when she lived in New York and I lived in New York, and we would run around town with our big groups of friends. And I'm going to do a little Daft Punk, I'm going to do a little Air, which is a little French pop band that I love. I'm going to do Jamiroquai. She and I and our friends ran around New York, had such a fun time, and those songs and those artists remind me of that time, so I'm going to play tonight. And I can't wait for you guys to meet her. She is lovely, she is elegant, she is kind, she is smart, she's determined, and I hope that you are as inspired by her as I am. So let's dig in.
Hello everyone, and welcome to Eat My Words. I am really happy today to be reunited with an old friend whom I have not had the pleasure of seeing in far, far, far too long. My guest today is an entrepreneur and business owner who brought her love for color and pattern to life in her work. She's a former fashion editor with stints at Harper's BAZAAR, Vogue, and W Magazine. She's someone who cares deeply about women and art and design, and believes that women can say a lot about themselves by what they choose to wear and that your wardrobe should bring you joy. She is the co-founder and creative director of one of the chicest brands I know, Borgo de Nor, which has become the fashion insider's for signature print dresses that are utterly feminine, bold, and super uplifting. She is also a wife, a mother, a daughter, a global citizen, and a friend. She is kind, she is smart, and she is chic as can be. Carmen Borganovo, welcome to Eat My Words.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, and what a beautiful introduction.
Johanna Almstea...: Thank you for being here and taking the time out of what I know is a very busy and full life to talk with me and to share your story. So thank you, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2: No, it's a complete pleasure.
Johanna Almstea...: And I just found out that you just moved like a month and a half ago, so I'm even more appreciative of you taking the time out because I know how crazy and disruptive that can be to life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's great seeing old friends, so it's worth it.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes. Which brings me to, I love to tell our listeners how we know each other. And I love how we got to know each other because it's kind of funny. I was working in the communications department at Prada and your name was forever in my Rolodex as one of the accessories editors that I needed to make sure I was sending the right things to and sending the right credit information. And I believe you were at W at the time, and I was the assistant who would send credit info via fax whenever you shot anything from Prada for the magazine. So I knew your name, but I didn't really know you.
And then my best friend from college met you at a party one night, and I remember her calling me the next day on my landline, right? No cell phones yet. And she was like, "Oh, my God, I met the sweetest girl. She's so chic. She's so funny. She's like a true Latina. And she works in a magazine. You're going to love her." So eventually, we met through our now very dear mutual friend Christina, and proceeded to have many fun, crazy nights running around New York City in the good old days pre-kids, pre-marriage, pre-all those things, when we just had fun and worked all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that was the Rolodex days, and those days were incredible. And I remember when I met Christina, I remember it was my boyfriend at the time said, "I've met your best friend and I need to introduce you to her." And that's how I met Christina, which led me to you. Yeah, and those days were incredible.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that. I still think about those days. My kids ask me sometimes, "What's the happiest moment in your life? Obviously, when you had me." I'm like, "Right, right, right. Of course, when I had you children. Of course." But what was my really happiest times was those days when we were just working our butts off at jobs that we loved, running around New York City. There was no social media, there was no ridiculousness, all you had to worry about was what you were going to wear and where the next party was and what the next restaurant was that was opening. And we just had so much fun.
Speaker 2: We did. I think it also had a lot to do with the economy was doing so well during that time and fashion was booming. That really made our jobs even more incredible. It was so dynamic at the time. And we were really fortunate, because it was a flourishing time in fashion, so we were given so many opportunities and we were so young. And also, I think our generation, we were so eager to just work. I don't know if you remember this, but I was just so excited to be there. I didn't care if I was there until 3:00 in the morning working, I was just so happy to just be working in New York. And we balanced everything. We worked hard and then we went out until really late, and then we still managed to be in the office the next day. And I feel really grateful for those years because they really formed me as a person and they formed sort of who I was going to be, my type of work ethic as well when I was working in New York.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally. I mean, I think we worked so hard.
Speaker 2: So hard.
Johanna Almstea...: I remember leaving the office at 11 o'clock at night on a Friday night.
Speaker 2: Me, too.
Johanna Almstea...: And going straight to Christina's house to pregame and have cocktails before we were going to go out dancing. And then go out dancing and then go back into the office on a Saturday.
Speaker 2: Completely. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Maybe not as early as normal, but back in the office after dancing until 4:00 AM.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was also, we were young, but also it was really fun to work at that time. It was a really special, creative moment. It was what we would call it, what, the '90s, mid-'90s, late-'90s. And I think it was just everything was booming. And we were so lucky to experience that, because I think it was the golden era of fashion at that time. It was just fun. And also our age, we had so much energy. I used to do that, I mean, I would go out every single night in New York, even Sundays, and then I would go out until 3:00 in the morning, dancing, and then would get up and go to tennis class before going to W.
Johanna Almstea...: That was slightly more motivated than I was. I definitely was not going to tennis class, but I remember you going to [inaudible 00:08:43].
Speaker 2: [inaudible 00:08:43] in class.
Johanna Almstea...: That was really another level of motivation. I was barely crawling myself out of bed and showering and throwing on some cute clothes and drinking a big coffee.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, but it was incredible. And I think also at the same time, we learned from the best at that time. We had so many incredible mentors working around us.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 2: So I felt like a sponge, just taking it all in and learning so much from everybody. And just in awe of where I was at the time.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. So let's talk about how you got there, because I think your background is so interesting, and I want to talk about your journey and how you've ended up where you are now. Where would you say your journey began?
Speaker 2: I think in the sense of the idea of working in fashion, I think it started at a very young age. I used to love to draw. I was always leaning a lot towards creativity, being creative and drawing. And I started drawing, pencil drawing bodies and people. And then I started, I think my mother probably influenced me a lot in fashion. I would grab her magazines and I would start drawing the models in magazines, pencil drawing them. And that led me to sort of start reading magazines and looking at the mastheads. And at 12 years old, I would look at the mastheads and I'd be like, "One day I want to be on these mastheads. I want to be a fashion editor." Not really knowing what it was, I just-
Johanna Almstea...: What that meant.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was just like, I'm going to be there one day. And I kept the dream.
Johanna Almstea...: And this was when you were still living in El Salvador?
Speaker 2: No, no, I was living already in Miami. I was-
Johanna Almstea...: In Miami.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can go back to sort of my roots. I was born in El Salvador, and because of the war in the '70s, we moved to Miami. So I grew up in Miami, and it was while living in Miami. And I kept this dream, I wasn't very vocal about it, it was just a little bit always in my mind and I kind of always knew that that's what I wanted to do. And then there was a moment when I went to New York with my parents, we visited New York, and I remember being in Park Avenue, I remember the dress I was wearing, it was a halter top little floral dress. I remember just feeling the energy of New York and telling my mother, "One day, I am going to live here." And I was around 12 as well, so I had this focus that I wanted to live in New York and work in fashion.
And I kept with my art, I kept on doing art in high school, but wasn't extremely serious about it. Wanted to go to art school, but my parents at that time were like, "We want you to go to get a normal education, and then if you still want to go to art school after you graduate, of course you can." And I went to Boston College, ended up studying something completely different. Studied French literature and international relations, but kept on taking art classes during that time. Then when I graduated, I just started looking for internships in New York, and I did it through fax at the time. That's how you got an internship, you just sent faxes. And I was hired by Mirabella Magazine.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, my gosh. RIP Mirabella.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was at Mirabella. And funnily enough, I was also faxing Harper's BAZAAR. And at the time, Richard Sinnott, I don't know if you remember him, he was accessory director.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, I do.
Speaker 2: He was accessory director at Harper's BAZAAR, and he would never return my calls or my faxes. And once I had agreed to take the job at Mirabella, he then called me and said, "I need an intern." And I, of course, at that time, didn't realize the difference between Mirabella and Harper's BAZAAR and the difference in the magazines. And I, out of just respect to Mirabella, said, "I'm really sorry. I've accepted an internship at Mirabella, so I cannot take your internship." He tells me now how shocked he was that someone would possibly-
Johanna Almstea...: How dare you turn down Harper's BAZAAR.
Speaker 2: Yeah. How could this girl turned down Harper's BAZAAR? So anyway, I went, I did the Mirabella internship. Nina Garcia was my boss, actually.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, my gosh. Wow.
Speaker 2: And Beth Buccini was also an editor there. So it was a great, very talented team where I learned a lot. And then in September I started looking for a job, and I called Richard and I said, "I'm looking for a job now." And I remember he said, "How could I forget you? You told me no three months ago." And then he called me in for an interview and I fortunately got the job. So that was my first job at Harper's BAZAAR as an accessories assistant.
Johanna Almstea...: Wow. And then you stayed at Harper's for how long?
Speaker 2: I stayed at Harper's BAZAAR, I think it could have been, I was 21, probably three, four years, around there, and then I went to W Magazine and I was an accessories editor there. I stayed around a year, year and a half, and then went to Vogue Magazine as accessories editor. And I stayed there about a year, a year and a half or two, and then I got the job offer to go back to W as accessories director. And there I stayed for seven years.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: It was such a magical time [inaudible 00:14:00] magazine too.
Speaker 2: I know, it was.
Johanna Almstea...: It was so good. It was just so good.
Speaker 2: I mean, even working at Vogue and W was such an incredible experience, because I saw two different worlds, completely different worlds of how magazines are run. W was more about journalism, it was more about writing, it was styling. There I learned so much. And Vogue, it was so interesting to see how structured everything was run, how organized everything was, and how everything just led to Anna. And it taught me a lot about structure, about organizing, keeping true to one vision. Whereas W is a very creative. I mean, I walked in there and they're like, "You have to write. You have to learn how to write." And you just learned how to write. And that was a very, very incredible experience, where I started interviewing designers and writing articles for W and for Women's Wear Daily. So that was really, really inspiring.
Johanna Almstea...: How did you learn to write? What did you do?
Speaker 2: Do you know what? Bridget Foley was an incredible mentor. I think she always told me, "Write what you feel." And then just, as you start writing, obviously you have great editors who edit you. And they were very much about write what you feel and what you think. And then little by little you start understanding the language and the feel of the writing of W Magazine, and you start just catching on. I mean, obviously, I was printed. I don't think I was the most talented writer, but I was able to write pretty good articles for W and then you had amazing editors. So I would learn from how they would edit my work as well.
And there were times where things would flow really easily, where I just knew how to start a story. And then there were times where it took me a long time to sort of think, "How am I going to tackle this story?" But it was an incredible time. I mean, I kept looking back and I think all the reporting we did, how we used to review shows, the constant running around during shows, and then not only just going to look at things, but also critiquing shows. I don't know, it was a very fulfilling time for me at W Magazine and very creative.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I feel like it also was, I mean, yes, advertising and editorial had their connections, but it felt at that time less so to me. I felt like editorial was not as so heavy-handedly influenced by the advertisers.
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't at that time, because the fashion was booming, I think. I mean, I saw it with W and with Vogue, how you could do a small story of a designer you liked and it would start off their career, and that was the power of W at the time and a Vogue. And we haven't seen something like that happen now. And then also now, I think it's, sadly, it's a lot about advertising. And before that, we obviously had an advertising list, but we were allowed to be creative and actually really showcase our voice and what we thought about the industry as journalists. So it was a special time as well.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. That does not exist anymore.
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't. It doesn't.
Johanna Almstea...: Exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's changed a lot.
Johanna Almstea...: So what did you do after W? You spent seven more years there and then what did you do?
Speaker 2: So I spent seven years and there I had the opportunity to also edit a magazine called W Jewelry, so that was quite exciting. But then there was a moment where I think it was a more personal moment, I saw myself kind of, I thought, "Okay, I'm either going to become a New Yorker forever or this is an opportunity to go and discover other things." And it was more of a personal thing I wanted to... I had always had this idea that I wanted to go and live in Europe a little bit.
And I also was very interested in learning the other side of fashion. I wanted to understand what it took to create a brand, more the business side of fashion. And I was offered a job as creative director of Hogan to move to Italy. And I thought that was a perfect opportunity for me to discover these two worlds, different worlds, either discover a new culture, live in Europe for a little bit, and also work on the other side, work for a brand. So they offered me a job, and I moved in 2004 to Milan. And since then I've stayed in Europe ever since.
Johanna Almstea...: Not a little jaunt over to Europe anymore.
Speaker 2: No.
Johanna Almstea...: You've made a life there now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, my idea was I always saw it as either I'm going to love it and I'm going to stay, or if not, I knew New York was always in my heart and I knew that I could always go back. So I was 32 at the time and I thought, "If I don't do this now, I'll never do it." And I really wanted to experience something different and just see the world a little bit more, and I wasn't ready to settle down. And yes, I moved and I met my husband in Milan, and one thing led to the next, and I'm 20 years later, I'm still in Europe. But my heart is still in New York.
Johanna Almstea...: And what was that transition like moving... Your what? Your heart's still in New York? Well, New York still has your heart in ours. We miss you. What was the transition like for you to go from the media world into the brand world? Was it shocking? Was it confusing? Was it easy?
Speaker 2: It was shocking. It was-
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it's very different.
Speaker 2: First of all, it was a big cultural change. I came from New York, where fashion was really booming, and moved to Italy, which was 20 years ago, completely different. I was living in New York where I didn't realize at the time where work really defined me. And I moved to Italy where no one really cared about who I was before. And it was also a completely different culture. And I moved to Milan, but spent a lot of time in the factory in Ancona. And once you know how factories work and how design works, it's a totally different world. These are craftsmen working on the shoes, on the bags. They really did not care that I came from W Magazine and had this career. And so it was an interesting experience and it really formed me as a person, because I realized I needed to really work on myself separate from my job and separate myself from my career, and create something a little bit deeper within me where my job doesn't define me. And also, I had to learn a completely different culture mentally of how people work. I was used to the American-
Johanna Almstea...: Did you speak Italian?
Speaker 2: No, absolutely no. I thought since I spoke Spanish, I thought I'm just going to wing it. And that was also a challenge both at work and also personally, because I would go out and some people will speak to you in English, but they get bored. They don't want to speak to you in English the whole night. So it was a year where I had to look inside myself, grow as a person, but also see myself in a completely different light. And almost, I don't know, I realize that as a New Yorker, you really feel that New York is the center of the earth, or at least that's how I felt at that time.
Johanna Almstea...: For sure.
Speaker 2: And moving to Europe made me realize there's a whole different world out there and people see everything in a different way. And I had to sort of stop thinking like a New Yorker and start opening up my mind. Weirdly, I thought, "Oh, God, I've been so close-minded, because I've only been working in New York." Which sounds strange because you think in New York everybody's really open-minded, but I had to really change everything that I thought, the way people work, and grow a lot as a person, because I was facing a completely different work culture, the everyday life of culture, and it really helped me grow and made me be more open-minded. And put things a lot of things in perspective as well.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. And how long did you stay there?
Speaker 2: I stayed four years. But after the year that we lived in Milan, we moved to London with my husband. So there I started, I would just go back and forth between London and Italy. And then there was a moment in London that I realized that something was missing, like I still didn't have my group. I had a lot of friends, but I didn't have my fashion friends, my more creative friends. And one of my best friends actually, she said, "You know what, Carmen, you are most happy when you are around creatives. And it's great that you're with Hogan, but you're not around your world and your people. You should probably consider trying to get a job in magazines again in London so you can get to know people in the industry." So that's exactly what I did. And I said, "Oh, my God, you're completely right. I hadn't really thought about that."
So I started looking for jobs in editorial again. In a way, I went back to what I used to do. I had to take a step back and I started looking for jobs. And I don't know if you know, but in London, the fashion industry is super creative, really strong, but it's a smaller business.
Johanna Almstea...: Very small. I used to love working in London though, because it was so easy in so many ways because it was so contained.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very contained, but there were very little jobs available. So I started interviewing and I went to Vogue and I went to Harper's BAZAAR, and I remember that our chief of Vogue at the time said to me, "I'd love to hire you, but no one ever leaves. Only if someone leaves for maternity leave." And then at Harper's BAZAAR as well, and by chance someone did take some time off for maternity leave, and I took her space. And after that it turned into a job. And there I worked for, I guess until 2012 at Harper's BAZAAR as a fashion editor. And it was fantastic, because it was actually just a three-day job, so I was able to also freelance with designers and do freelance work.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there I worked with Lucy Omens, who was an incredible editor. Such an intelligent, inspiring woman. And it was great because there I started to work in fashion, not just accessories. And I started to style shoots, fashion shoots, things that I didn't do before, which was great as well because it's also helped me now with my brand and everything I'm doing now.
Johanna Almstea...: So let's talk about that. What made you take the leap to go back to a brand by starting your own? Because that's no small feat, especially for somebody who has not really grown up in their career at a fashion brand.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think it was experience working at Hogan. And also, in London, I was able to consult with a lot of fashion brands, so there I started learning what it took to make a brand and also this interest that I said before, this interest of running a business, like learning how a fashion brand works. And I also saw that magazines were dying a little bit. I saw that this magazine world, the one that we spoke about in the '90s just wasn't there anymore. And it was this just curiosity as well. The internet starting to become really big and NET-A-PORTER, and there was all these different things that were happening in fashion that were really interesting to me.
And I actually did a stint in a website called My Wardrobe. After BAZAAR, I went as fashion director of this website called My Wardrobe, which was a website for advanced luxury, and I went as fashion director. So I was fashion director of all the buyers, which was an incredible experience. I obviously went not knowing much about that job, about buying and all those things. One of my first days on the job, we went to visit a showroom and the company at the time owned money to a brand or the showroom, and I got cornered talking about money, saying, "When are you going to pay us," and, "You haven't paid us yet." And I was, as a fashion editor, I had never experienced that side of the business. And I remember the first day I thought, "Oh, my God, this is a totally different world and I really need to learn about this." By the time I left the company, I was able to discuss business, cash flow, money, payments, and understood also what it takes to sell a piece of clothing.
I remember one of my first buys, I went to see Acne and I fell in love with this beautiful black dress that was over a thousand pounds, and I was like, "Of course we're going to buy this." I remember my buyer, who's now at Selfridges, an incredible buyer, is like, "Carmen, that's too expensive." And I had that... I was like, "No, but we have to. It's for image, we have to buy it. How can that not sell?" And of course, we bought very little, because she was very careful in buying. And then I think maybe we sold one of those dresses. And after that I noticed price point is really important, especially when you're trying to sell end product. You really have to know who you're talking to and who your customer is in order to sell. So I learned all this at this website.
Johanna Almstea...: And it's such a different kind of aspiration, I think, than editorial, like for people who don't work in the business. Editorial, when you're putting a dress in a magazine like Vogue or W, price doesn't matter. It's meant to be this showstopper. It's meant to be beautifully shot and sort of over-the-top aspirational. And those are often not the things that actually sell. Very few people buy those things. Sometimes they're not even made right, right? Sometimes they're just made for the magazine and then there's a different version.
Speaker 2: Exactly. A lot of times they're not made and, yeah, it's important to understand that. And the whole experience was extremely interesting to me, because I was, in a way, it's through my career, I kind of went through all the different sides to understand 360 the fashion industry, from editorial to writing to making a collection, and also working for our websites and buying, which was also quite hard work to be a buyer and to be following the fashion shows and going to the showrooms and buying. I mean, it's non-stop. And it's incredible these buyers who do it, it's almost like they're always on the road and also thinking about they're not just buying, they're also thinking, "Are we going to make money? How much money are we going to put into this collection?" And that was very interesting to me, which led me to eventually create my own brand.
After that job, I was freelancing and I wanted to do something for myself, to be honest. I really wanted to be an entrepreneur. I felt like I had so much experience, but didn't want to go back into magazines. And I met my business partner, Joanna, who had a showroom. She had a sales showroom. And we started talking. I started freelancing, working with her showroom a little bit, helping her curate her brands. And we started talking about creating a resort wear brand or a dress brand, really, I'm going to call it. It started as a resort brand, but now it has all the seasons. And we saw a niche in the market. And it was a point in my life where I was ready to become an entrepreneur.
I had the confidence as well. I think back in the day, probably with you and Christina, we must have talked about me launching a brand. I remember having these conversations with Christina, and I always felt I wasn't ready. And I think it was just all things came together, and I think all the knowledge that I gained through all these different jobs allowed me to say, "Okay, I'm ready to do this," and, "I have enough knowledge to create a brand or at least try to create a brand."
Johanna Almstea...: Right. So you guys partnered up, you and Joanna partnered up, and what year did you launch Borgo de Nor?
Speaker 2: 2017.
Johanna Almstea...: 2017. And it's beautiful obviously, but I'd imagine that your experience and your connections in the fashion industry helped accelerate its success, I would imagine. You weren't somebody who was just crawling out of the woodwork and saying, "I'm going to just make a pretty brand and someone's going to buy it."
Speaker 2: No.
Johanna Almstea...: So how did you launch it? How did that all work?
Speaker 2: Well, it took us about a year and a half, because we were doing this idea, but then at the same time we were both working, so we took it slowly. And then there was a moment where we said, "Okay, we're ready to launch." At the time, I had a gut instinct that it would work, but you don't know. When you're first putting out your first creation, you really don't know. And I actually was very scared, because I knew people in the industry, I didn't want them to feel like they had to buy it or they had to... Which buyers won't. But I didn't want to make these people that I knew buyers or people at NET-A-PORTER uncomfortable, because they knew me and they were my friends. So it was an interesting experience the first time I showed the collection.
But I think it was a time in the industry where at the time there weren't a lot of print brands at the time. Now there's many more. And there was a niche in the market for a brand at our price point. And fortunately, NET-A-PORTER, the matches, they loved the brand and it went really well from the start. We were very, very, very fortunate that they liked it and they bought it. And then I did notice it was genuine, because buyers are intelligent. They wouldn't have just bought it because they were friends of ours. And it worked. Also, once you see the sell-throughs, it did work and gave us confidence to do the next season. And here we are many years later, still designing.
Johanna Almstea...: Still designing.
Speaker 2: And growing the business. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: That's wild. When you were younger, did you have an idea in your mind of what having it all meant? Do you feel like you've hit that now? Is it anything similar to what you thought about when you were a kid?
Speaker 2: It's similar, but it's different. I had this idea that I wanted to be a full working woman in New York. I mean, that was my thing. I was just like, "I want to go, I want to be a career woman. I'm going to have it all. I'm going to have an amazing, incredible job and have kids, but also be a power woman." And I think it's a bit softer what I am now than what I imagined when I was younger. It's a bit more realistic. To me, I have it all. It's just a bit, a warmer feeling, I guess, when I look at my life and what I have created. And there's more of a balance and there's a peacefulness to what I have now. And it's similar to what I imagined, but in a completely different way, if that makes sense.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: Because as you know, having children, it's...
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Sometimes they smudge that image a little bit of what you thought it was going to be like.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: So you're obviously a creative person and you always were a creative person. You obviously have a savvy business side, because you've managed to build this business and maintain it at a level of growth and success. Which of those parts of you is stronger or are they equal, or does one need to be cultivated more? How does that live in you?
Speaker 2: I think you can't be everything in a business. I think when you launch a business, I think you have to understand your strengths and your weaknesses. And it's not just me who's running the business, it's the team. So I think it's really important to create a team around you that can support you and understand where you need the support. I would say my strongest side is probably I'm more of a creative person. I'm a doer in that sense, in the creative. I work really hard, I can get things done quickly on the creative side. I think where we have support is in the business side, in that side. And I think it's hard to do both really well. I think it's important to understand the business side, and I do a hundred percent, but it's also, I think it's so important to surround yourself by people that can bring in knowledge to your business where you need it and to ask for help. I think that's super important.
Johanna Almstea...: Did you know where to ask for help? Because I feel like a lot of our listeners are founders of businesses or thinking about founding business, and I feel like some of the stories are like, "Well, I didn't know I needed a CFO until I screwed up that big purchase order one year," or, "I didn't know what I didn't know," or, "I didn't know where I needed help." Did you go through a process of identifying that or was that sort of an easy, seamless thing for you guys?
Speaker 2: No. I think for every entrepreneur you make mistakes and you learn from those mistakes. And I mean, our journey certainly hasn't been easy. We've gone through COVID. That for any young business has been extremely challenging. And also matches closing was extremely challenging. And also, the economy going up and down and all that is extremely challenging. So some things we've learned along the way, making mistakes. But also, what's been incredible is making mistakes, learning from them, and getting out of the mistakes, whatever that might be. And understanding that it's always a journey, and there's certain things in fashion, it's a market that goes up and down. Certain things are not predictable, so it's a little bit of you have to try to create a cushion somehow around you. So anything unpredictable, hopefully you can get out of.
And asking for help, do you know what? It's like you just have to ask, you have to ask around. If you know a finance person, whether it's a friend, you can say, listen, I'm looking for... Just talk to people. I'm looking for someone to help me on the finance side, on the strategy, on logistics, and speak to as many people as possible. I think that's really important. And share our ideas and experiences as well. I fortunately have some friends that work in fashion that have also, like me, editors, that have launched brands as well, and we call each other all the time and share experiences and just support each other.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing. I think so many people feel like they are supposed to know it all and they get upset about asking for help. They're afraid that they're going to seem weak or that they don't know what they're doing, or everyone has imposter syndrome, so they're afraid to show that they don't know something. So I think that's a really important thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so. I think you're constantly learning. And you see how fast the industry has changed in the past 20 years. We're constantly, you have to learn to be flexible and learn to problem solve. I think that's the most important thing. And when you're such a small business, you need to learn to make your company flexible and problem solve, not see it as like, "Oh, my God, what are we going to do?" It's just, okay, this is a problem. What's the solution right now? And ask for help when you need it or advice. I mean, that's the positive thing about London, London is such a small little community that launching a brand there was so important for us in so many ways. But also it's because it's such a small kind of familial community, we knew a lot of people and were able to reach out to people and say, "Can you help us?" And ask advice.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. And people are generally very supportive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are. They are.
Johanna Almstea...: So you've talked about this lovely, soft life that you're living now, that feels fulfilling and kind of better and different than you expected it to be, and you're running this business and you're a parent. What sacrifices have you made to get to this point? Because I know no one gets to this point without some.
Speaker 2: No, I think... Do you know what? To be honest, I don't see any sacrifices. I really don't.
Johanna Almstea...: Wow, that's great.
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I mean, I think the only thing that I think is... Yes, I think I do hear my children sometimes, "You have to stop being on the phone. Please don't be on the phone," or don't do this and don't do that. And then I always tell them, "Listen, if you want me to pick you up at school, sometimes I'm going to have to be on the phone, because I have a work message to return," or something like that. But I think it's good for them to see their mother working, passionate about something. I think maybe right now it's a bit difficult sometimes for them, but I think later on they'll really, they'll look at that and they'll be able to admire that I'm working and that I'm doing something for myself.
At the same time, having your own business does allow you to be there when your children need you sometimes. Sometimes, obviously, you do have to sacrifice that, but it allows you to be a little bit more flexible on that side. And on the other side, what has having a family? I love to work and I love being creative. I think once you have a family, the amount of time I would like to spend on work, I can't. So everything has to happen quicker.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. It's like almost now I find it's like a luxury to be able to work uninterrupted and with no end point, right? No pickup time that you have to go. I just had this feeling yesterday where I had my babysitter come and she was doing pickup and she was doing dinner and she was doing homework, and she was doing it all with him, and I was like, God, it's just such a luxury to not be rushing off to stop my work. It's a real thing. But of course you don't want to do that every day, you don't want to miss those things. But it's like you don't realize that working the way we used to work in our 20s is actually like a luxury for people who have families.
Speaker 2: It was a luxury. Yeah, and I think you could probably say this for yourself, we loved what we did, so that's why right now we do see it as a luxury, the time where... I mean, even as I told you this podcast, we had to put an hour because the children and all those things. And those are things that, yeah, we don't have the luxury to just work for hours and hours and weekends. I used to work weekends, but literally, it wasn't working for me. I was researching, I was going to the library to research and going to art galleries, all those things where now you have to do it, you go to an art gallery, you go for half an hour.
Johanna Almstea...: You Zoom in [inaudible 00:40:58]. Okay, good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: Speaking of that, because I know art is a big inspiration for you, how do you find inspiration? How do you nourish your creative side?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it started when we launched the brand, I was, at that time, reading a book on Leonora Carrington, who was a surrealist artist. And I've always been a lover of surrealism, both literature and art since I was very young. But then also started getting really interested in the women in the surrealist movement, who, when you read about all of them, I mean, they're incredible trailblazers. Changed how women were in society. Were really challenging society. And there were a lot of incredible female artists of the time.
And so at that time, when I was creating the brand, I wanted to infuse that powerful essence into the prints. And I always try to do a surrealist print or something inspired by surrealism. It doesn't happen now every season, because it's every season to do a surrealist print. Also, surrealism can be quite dark sometimes, so it's difficult. But my whole thing is about creating that passionate, powerful feeling in a print that empowers a woman when she wears a print, obviously.
But now I think with inspiration, it comes from so many different things. And it's this, it's because I don't have a lot of time now, I have two boys that are 10 and nine. My eyes are everywhere. It can go from, if I'm reading a book, it could be a sentence that could inspire me. It could be an art gallery. It could be the color of a flower that I've seen. I mean, sometimes, literally on the street, I'll photograph a sweater from behind because I like the color combination of a sweater. I mean, it could be anything. And it's just keeping your eyes really alert to any point of inspiration and putting it all together when you're designing. And a lot of it is mood as well. It's a feeling. It's a gut instinct. And I think that comes from the editorial side, where we're able to sort of feel trends and understand what's coming, and it's mixing all those things-
Johanna Almstea...: Before people know they want it, decide what they want before they even know they want it.
Speaker 2: Exactly. And understanding trends on color. And it's a mood, it's a feeling as well. It's a mix of a lot of different things at this point. And every season the inspiration comes differently, and I've learned to trust that. I've learned to trust that it all kind of works. And sometimes one print will inspire another, and it changes every season. And it's just trusting that journey when you're designing.
Johanna Almstea...: And how do you and your partner, Joanna, work from a creative perspective? Does the creative direction always come from you or do you guys-
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it comes from me. However, she does the sales side and she'll come in with input about sales, which is really important. And what works, what doesn't, what buyers are saying. And just tell me they want color or there was too much color. It depends, every season it changes. So it's a lot of understanding where the information comes and what works for us as a brand and what doesn't.
Johanna Almstea...: And is there ever a time where it's in conflict with what you're feeling for the season? Like if you're like, I'm feeling sort of dark and moody, and she's coming and saying they want bright and cheerful, and you're like, ooh, creatively, you're at a crossroads.
Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Yeah, it has happened before. I remember there was this one season where we launched a little capsule and it was so colorful and it was incredible. And after the season of the sale, we did a whole month of selling it. Both her and I were like, "Oh, my God, it's so colorful." Do you know when you see something so much? And then the next season, I went for more pastels and lighter colors, and we were really into this idea, and it wasn't our best-selling season.
Johanna Almstea...: Because people wanted more of what you had given them the season before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And then it's also understanding also your client. That was right in the beginning. In time, you sort of understand sort of what sells, what doesn't. And also, having a balance of pushing it forward, because you do have to believe in the new things and sort of say, okay, to move forward, we have to do something. It might not sell the first season, might not sell the second season, but the third it will, and stick to it. Which is not an easy thing to do, but that's where your editorial background comes in and you start saying, "Okay, I believe in this. It might not sell in the beginning, let's just give it some time."
Johanna Almstea...: And not trying to be everything to everyone. Understanding that your point of view is going to resonate eventually, hopefully with someone.
Speaker 2: Hopefully. Hopefully, yeah. Exactly. But it's also a lot listening to clients. I think when we do sales, I find that really, really important to go and see actually real women trying on the clothing and telling me how they feel in the print and how they feel and what they're looking for. I really take a lot of input in that. I think it really gives me a lot of information, and I really enjoy it, too. And I enjoy both the positive and the negative of it, because someone will come in and be like, "Oh, I don't like your sleeve. It's too big, it's overwhelming." And that's okay. It's about also understanding women are different sizes, different shapes, and understanding what works for certain types of women, what works for others.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. I think it's so different too, to get that feedback one-on-one from a human as opposed to that same information could be on a spreadsheet as data or as a focus group that someone else did for you. It's like, I think it's so different when you are there as the designer and as the creative lead of this brand to hear it from a human, right? I think that's so important.
Speaker 2: It's really important. I think it's both things too though. I mean, I think data is important as well. You just have to understand not to let it block your creativity, and it's hard sometimes.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. How do you do that? How do you not let it block your creativity?
Speaker 2: You know what I realized? There's always going to be people that are going to love your brand and there's always going to be someone that's going to say they don't like something. And as an editor, we used to go to the shows and we used to say, "Oh, the product show wasn't strong." I mean, what does that mean? I mean, do you know what I'm saying? Is it an opinion or a fact? That's how you have to see things as, is something an opinion or a fact? And you just have to grow a really thick skin, I think, because there are things that people are not going to like at all, and it's fashion. That's the beauty of fashion, it's subjective, and you have to understand that. And as you said, you can't design for everybody.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. Totally. Okay, so you're spending your days balancing art and commerce and family, trying to juggle all these things. When you think about your kids at this time, when they're old enough to listen to this podcast, what do you want them to know about this time in your life as you're growing them up, as you're raising them, but you're also building this incredible business and fulfilling your creative needs, what do you want them to know about this time?
Speaker 2: That it's the most beautiful time that I'm having right now, because also, their electric energy and their happiness really influences what I'm doing, to be honest. And it's really fulfilling. It's fulfilling to have both worlds and to feed off them as well. I mean, I don't know if this happened to you, but I think every mother says they can't believe everything they accomplish once they have kids.
Johanna Almstea...: I used to think I was productive and then I had kids, and then I became really productive.
Speaker 2: Me, too. And I just want them to feel, this time is just a really beautiful, colorful time in my life, both seeing them grow and seeing them become these incredible little boys and young men. And at the same time, I'm growing my company, and I'm very thankful that I have both. And they both feed off each other. I remember during COVID, I designed a collection and it was, I mean, I put a skateboard in a photo shoot, and I think I was really at that time really inspired by their energy and their happiness. We were skateboarding, we were doing all these things, I was spending a lot of time in the skateboarding rink, and their absolute beautiful happy energy influenced that collection while we were at home during COVID. And I looked back and I thought, they're inspiring to me during this time as well.
Johanna Almstea...: Do you think they know that they inspire you now?
Speaker 2: I think so. I think maybe the oldest does a little bit. He also inspires me through music. And maybe the youngest. And I think they will, or I should probably tell them, to be honest. I should probably tell them that they inspire me every day with my work as well. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. It's good for them to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you feel that with your children?
Johanna Almstea...: Of course. I mean, I think so much of... And I don't tell them enough, but I do think that so much of even just this podcast was thinking about what I can do to make their world better, right? What I can do to make them have an easier time or feel more understood or feel more inspired.
Part of the inspiration for this podcast was because we went through this phase in our house where it started with COVID, but we had several amazing women living with us at different times. My business partner in another business came from LA, and she's so brilliant and so beautiful and so kind with my kids, and I felt like they were getting this other source of inspiration for their lives. And then we had our former nanny, who's a dear friend and part of our family. And she was living with us for a little while, because she was in transition. And so I realized so much that women telling their stories, women other than me, of course, I try to be a good inspiration to them, but these women are going to be inspiring to them too and these women are inspired by them, by the process of living with us.
So I think this idea of us sharing our stories so that our children, number one, know about us, know what we go through. It's funny, I actually just got a note from the husband of a guest whose episode just aired, and he was like, "My kids are going to have this episode forever now. I'm so glad that you did this. I wish every member of my family could do this, because it's like a little time in a bottle kind of thing."
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. It's true. And that's a good way to look at it, too. It's almost about bringing them inspiration as well. And I agree with you, I think when I bring a lot of my friends in the industry that are really creative and they meet them, I think they see, it helps them think outside of the box, I think. It's like, okay, you followed your dreams and you're fulfilling them. And I think maybe they're a little bit too small right now to understand, but I think in the future they will.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, for sure. I hope so, right? I hope so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we hope so. Yeah, exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: So of all the achievements that you've had thus far, which you continue to have, what is something that you're most proud of?
Speaker 2: That's an easy question, it's probably my children. It's as easy as that. That and then, secondly, I think every single thing that I've done, I'm proud of. Everything was a certain time in my life, and it brought me here. And every single journey, both... When I think about New York, New York was easy. No?
Johanna Almstea...: Totally.
Speaker 2: It was easy. Everything was easy.
Johanna Almstea...: You had not a care in the world. All we had do is show up and go to the jobs that we loved, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And then we were making good money. It was all easy. And then in my late 30s, in my mid-30s, 40s, I think everything became just a little bit more difficult with work, with everything. But that was incredible for me because it's like I grew as a person, I separated my image from my job, and I learned so much. So I'm really proud of all the different, I guess, lives I've lived in the industry. And it's all brought me to here, which is a place where I'm really happy and at peace.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I love hearing that. Is there anything that you once believed about yourself that you have since outgrown?
Speaker 2: Once believed that I have outgrown? I can't think. I think I've always been quite grounded. I think I've always been quite steady. I've never really had all these, I've just been... Yeah, no. I think when I think about where I am, it's where I need to be, but I've always felt that. I always feel even a failure, it's where you need to be because you need to grow. And whenever it's been difficult, I always somehow just been like, okay, you just need to really go through this to get to the next place. It's your journey. So any sort of transition in my life, whether great or difficult, I see it as a journey to get me to where I need to be.
Johanna Almstea...: And now that you're in this lovely place of peace and creativity and fulfillment, are you dreaming about anything else? What's next? Do you dream about anything these days? Do you have time to dream about things these days?
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I do. I want to grow the business more. I would definitely love to get into accessories and start doing some jewelry. As you know, that's a passion of mine. So that would be fantastic. And just grow the business further. I mean, when we launched, Joanne and I, when we launched the brand, we saw it as obviously a ready-to-wear brand, but also we wanted to go into perfume and do other things, so that's still in the pipeline. It's still there. It's still a passion of ours. And to do jewelry would be a great extension, I think. And it would follow sort of my passions as well to add on to and do some jewelry for the brand. And follow that, that sort of putting art into jewelry and putting in all that knowledge that I have of jewelry into the brand would be fantastic.
Johanna Almstea...: And to keep yourself at peace, how do you nourish yourself? Physically, spiritually, how do you...
Speaker 2: For me, sport is super, super important. I try to move my body as much as possible, but it's really mental. So I try to do some sort of exercise at least three, four times a week. I would say I love to meditate, but I don't do it enough.
Johanna Almstea...: Me neither.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would love to say, oh, I meditate every day, but I don't. But when I do, it feels fantastic. And I always say, "Why don't I do this more often?" I hope to eventually either develop that a little bit more. And then also, just I'm finding now, now that my boys are a little bit older, I used to be a big reader and I used to love to read, and then, since I've been growing up, I've sort of given up on that. But I started to read again and I find that really nourishing. And then going to art shows, going to exhibitions, I think that is, for me, it's just so inspiring. Whenever I can, I just try to pop in half an hour, an hour to just see an exhibition. And now that I'm in Milan, what's great, it's a smaller city, it's easier to do. You can just pop in and out. It's fantastic.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. That's so nice. I've had to change my viewpoint of, I used to love to go to a museum and spend several leisurely hours, and then I had kids and that just doesn't happen. And I have business, and so that doesn't happen anymore. And so I kind of stopped for a little while. Even going to galleries and stuff, I just wasn't. And I have recently, in the last, say, year, been just craving it. I need it. I'm like, you know what? If it's an hour, it's an hour. If it's half an hour, it's half an hour. But I have to make the time and just pop in and out, even if that's all it is. Sometimes I'll go to the Met and I only make it through the lobby. I see one little bit, I'm like, "Okay, that was enough. That's fine. I'll look at the ceiling."
Speaker 2: Yeah. But isn't it enough? There's something that will inspire you at that moment. And obviously, you want to spend more time, but it's a balance, right? It's about trying to understand what you can do at this certain time in your life.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. Is there anything that you've said no to, that you wish that you had said yes to?
Speaker 2: Anything that I said no to? Nothing comes to mind, to be honest. I might tell you afterwards.
Johanna Almstea...: It's okay. We can put it in the notes.
Speaker 2: But right now, no. No. I'm just a true believer that where you are is where you need to be.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. That's a beautiful way to be able to live your life, I think, to have that trust and that faith that it's where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I really am a believer of that. And if it doesn't work, it's okay. You'll find your way.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I imagine you don't have a lot of these, but what is your idea of a perfect day off?
Speaker 2: Ooh, perfect idea of a day off. Probably going to a museum, going to see something, a beautiful exhibition. And being in nature as well is something that I really, really love. I think those two maybe don't work together. But I do love taking hikes, long hikes in mountains. That to me is a perfect day off, doing a beautiful hike and ending up eating in a lodge somewhere high up in a mountain, having the most beautiful food and some wine. That to me is a perfect day. And just feeding the soul with creativity. I really, I love to go see exhibitions or going to see a ballet or music. To me that's really nourishing.
Johanna Almstea...: And were you raised with that kind of art and culture in your life? Was that something your parents instilled in you or is that something you discovered later?
Speaker 2: No, I think a little bit. I mean, Miami at the time when I grew up wasn't the most cultural city, but we did go to see some place. No, but I think that developed on a personal level, just because I had a leaning towards art and the creative world.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, I also think all those things, I remember when I first started working, I guess I was probably at Prada where it was like I saw how quickly art and music and food and everything became, they were all intertwined in fashion, too. The references were all part of it, so you kind of needed to know all the other things that were going on too, to be good at [inaudible 01:00:24].
Speaker 2: Completely. I think also, when we were living in New York, we were so fortunate of all the things we experienced, working for the brands that we worked for. I mean, the concerts we were invited, the jazz concerts, the musicians that we saw on private concerts. All those things, when you think about it, I mean, it was a big... For me, New York was like a school. We learned so much in that era. We grew as into young adults to adults in those 10 years, 15 years, where we were working in these companies. And we were exposed to so much culturally at the time as well.
Johanna Almstea...: That's so true, too. I think about that, and I guess I took it for granted for sure. But I felt like it was more about we weren't necessarily seeking out culture, it was like who had tickets to what that night? Who could get us into whatever we were doing? And it was like, where are you going to be? Oh, you're going to be at this opening, because one of our friends is interning at the gallery, so we're going to go there. And then we're going to go to this opening of a restaurant because someone else is dating the chef. I don't know, I felt like it was less about having to seek it out and more about it just being part of our lives. And because of our work, being invited to film premieres and music and gallery openings. And I feel like it was just so easy back then to do.
Speaker 2: It was very easy. I wonder though, do you sometimes think, I wonder if it's the same for young people today in New York? I'm wondering if they're living that life too, that we... I mean, we don't, because we're older. I'm wondering if they're living that. I hope they are.
Johanna Almstea...: I hope they are. I think they are sometimes. I have someone who works with me, who she hosts a reading with authors once a month. And I went to one night and I was like, "Oh, my God, this is fabulous." It's just young people reading aloud what they've written. And I think there are people who are doing it. And then I think there are other people who are sitting in their apartments, being influencers, taking pictures of themselves, and worrying about the algorithm. I think it's probably a combination.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably a combination. That's true, yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I think even if you're not even seeking it out in New York, it finds you. You find a little bit of it through osmosis. You're walking by galleries or you're walking by nightclubs playing music, and you hear it at least.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, I hope it does exist. I hope our children get to experience what we experienced in whatever shape or form, but I hope they find their place that can inspire them as much as we were inspired during that era.
Johanna Almstea...: For sure. And work that inspires them. I think about that all the time. I'm like, we were so lucky. I had so many friends who hated their jobs, and we were so lucky to think our jobs were amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean, I sometimes even today, I talk to adults who said, "I still don't love my job." And for me, I feel so fortunate that I love what I do.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally. Totally. And you see how, especially after at our age, you see people who've been doing a job that they hate for 20 years, it's like that takes a toll on the soul and on your heart and on your mind.
Speaker 2: It does. It does. And we're lucky. I mean, I feel quite grateful about that, that this industry continues and it's changed in so many ways, continues to inspire. And also the incredible people we've met in the industry.
Johanna Almstea...: I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, this podcast has been a beautiful example of that, of people who I haven't seen in five years or 10 years or whatever, and they're like, "Yes, I'll come on and I'll talk and I'll [inaudible 01:03:56]." And how supportive people are and how inspiring they still are to me today. I'm like, I could sit and talk to these people forever.
Speaker 2: I know. It's great. It's really good.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, well, this brings us to the very exciting moment of the lightning round of silly questions. Do not overthink it. A lot of them are food-related, but they don't necessarily have to be food-related, it's just that I like to talk about food and I like to make judgments about people, about what they eat. That's all.
Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
Johanna Almstea...: So don't overthink it, it's just meant for fun. I know you're a good student, so you like things to be right, but you don't have to worry about this. Okay. Your favorite comfort food.
Speaker 2: Grilled chicken salad.
Johanna Almstea...: Really?
Speaker 2: Yes. It's my favorite thing on earth. It's my favorite thing on earth.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. What do you put in the salad?
Speaker 2: By the way, you can ask Julia, every single day at work that's what I would eat. It depends, it changes. The lettuce sometimes changes. It could be arugula, it could be just green leaves. And then I usually put some cheese, depends on what it is. Corn, egg, tomatoes, and avocado for sure. And then I roast nuts. I sprinkle like pine nuts on it. And I just love it. It's so refreshing. And that's when I want to feel... I love it. I just love eating a well-grilled chicken salad.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. That is not what I was expecting, but it sort of suits you though. I feel like that same part of your personality that's always been sort of grounded and level-headed and wise, I feel like the salad sound suits you.
Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, so what is something you're really good at?
Speaker 2: Something I'm really good at, I would say tennis.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, because of all those early morning lessons after being out clubbing all night.
Speaker 2: No, I did once, before I discovered fashion, I wanted to become a professional tennis player.
Johanna Almstea...: Amazing. Did you play as a kid?
Speaker 2: I did. I did.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. And do you still play? Do you try to play a lot?
Speaker 2: No. Sadly, I have a problem with my foot, so I haven't been able to play for a while, which makes me very sad, but hopefully I'll be able to play soon.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. What is something you're really bad at?
Speaker 2: Ooh, singing.
Johanna Almstea...: Really?
Speaker 2: Really terrible. And I love music and I love to sing, and I cannot follow a tune. I am terrible at it. And my dream is to go to sing, and I can't sing.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, maybe you should take singing lessons while you can't play tennis. Well, your foot is hurt, you should take some singing lessons and maybe you can get better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I'm so bad. My children [inaudible 01:06:32] tell me, "You need to stop singing." That's how bad I am.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, gosh. I'm sorry. That's hard.
Speaker 2: It's okay. It's okay.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. What's your favorite word?
Speaker 2: I love you. Love.
Johanna Almstea...: Love. Yeah. What's your least favorite word?
Speaker 2: My least favorite word. Negative. Negativity. Being negative.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. What's your least favorite food?
Speaker 2: Fish.
Johanna Almstea...: Really? I don't think I knew that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I can't eat fish. It's a problem. I've tried so many times, because I really want to like sushi and I just can't.
Johanna Almstea...: None of it?
Speaker 2: None of it.
Johanna Almstea...: What about shellfish? No? Nothing?
Speaker 2: No, shellfish I do eat. It's actually just fish in itself. It has to be either very, very fresh and grilled with a lot of lemon and a lot of olive oil, so basically you don't taste it. Otherwise, it's a problem. I mean, I can't, and I've tried many times.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. Well, I'm glad you keep trying. Best piece of advice you've ever received?
Speaker 2: Best piece of advice. I think, I mean, this is something that shaped me and it was from, at a very young age, it was from my father where I didn't do very well in a math test or something, and I came home quite upset. And then he, it was incredible, then he said, but it shaped me, it's just how I reacted to it, he said, "You don't have to be the smartest in the room or the genius in the room to be successful." He said, "Sometimes the geniuses are the ones that end up not having careers because they're almost too smart. It's like you need to believe in yourself as a person, and sometimes you need to be a little bit more," basically said it's better to be well-rounded and that will lead to success, and that gave me a lot of confidence.
Johanna Almstea...: That's major. I think a very formative thought for a little brain.
Speaker 2: It was. It helped me a lot in those moments. Just also, I guess what he was trying to tell you is move on. I think I got a C+ or something. "You got a C+, move on. You're smart. You can do it. Just move on from this." It's almost, he was trying to teach me, you're not failing. You're a smart girl, just keep on going. It's not going to define your success.
Johanna Almstea...: That's huge. That's huge. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be?
Speaker 2: Oh, my personality was a flavor. I was going to say a color, I would say red. A flavor, maybe cherry. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe a cherry.
Johanna Almstea...: Little juicy, a little colorful, sweet.
Speaker 2: A little dark, a little juicy, a little... Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Sometimes has that blood-like darkness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: I love it.
Speaker 2: [inaudible 01:09:44] mind.
Johanna Almstea...: I love it. Okay. So it's your last supper, you're leaving this earth, but it's not sad. It's just evolution. You can take whoever you want with it. What would your meal be? What would you be eating?
Speaker 2: A chicken salad. No, I'm kidding.
Johanna Almstea...: A little chicken salad.
Speaker 2: No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
Johanna Almstea...: You're allowed. That's okay. Some people use this same one.
Speaker 2: I would have lots of wine.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. Red wine or white wine, or all the colors of wine?
Speaker 2: All the colors of wine. I think whoever wants red, whoever wants white, that would be amazing. I would have a huge table full of the most incredible cheeses, good salads, meat. I love meat. And also a charcuterie board, because I love sausages and all those lovely things. And it would be more of a buffet of all these incredible flavors that you could try different things and try little bits, and just enjoy all the taste. Yeah, I think it would be meats and cheeses and salads, that's what I would do. And breads and wine.
Johanna Almstea...: Sounds fabulous. I'm coming to that party.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Johanna Almstea...: Have you ever had a moment in your life where you've had to eat your words, like take them back? Or you've said something that really you shouldn't have said or was embarrassing or hurtful?
Speaker 2: Yes, of course. We all have. I mean, I can't remember specific ones, but we all do. There are moments of exhaustion and moments of anger. We say things... The most important thing, I think, is to be able to admit it and apologize.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes. I'm getting better at that in my old age, I feel like.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Where is your happy place?
Speaker 2: I think it would be right now, wherever I am with my kids in nature. But El Salvador is a happy place for me. Going home is a happy place definitely. And being there with my kids is just incredible. It makes me so happy to take them home. And being in nature with my boys and my family is a happy place. Whether it's in the countryside here in Italy or somewhere where we're walking, we're in nature, we're feeling... Seeing green is really important to me.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world? So it's a big meeting or a big presentation or a hot date or something major, what do you wear?
Speaker 2: I think for me it's a mood. It's not specific to a certain look. It depends on how I'm feeling on that day and what makes me feel good at that moment. I think we all go through favorites in your wardrobe that make you feel good, and sometimes it could be a color. I mean, since I've started the brand, I'm certainly wearing less black and color makes me feel good. It's also just the way something feels on your skin. For example, this shirt I love. I absolutely love. I also love it because I love the white of the shirt and it brings light to the face. So it's a feeling. I mean, I think you know, when you try something on, you just feel good in it. And sometimes you might see it and you might think, "Oh, that's not going to look good on me," and then all of a sudden you feel fantastic. And that's the importance, I think, that clothing gives you. Sometimes it gives you happiness or a self-confidence, or it just makes you feel good.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. What is your go-to coping mechanism on a hard day or a bad day? Things are going sideways, work things are crazy, kid things are crazy, you're exhausted, what do you do?
Speaker 2: Sometimes I try to do exercise if I'm feeling a little bit... I mean, obviously, I can't in the middle of the day, but if I know I'm feeling a little bit, I'll be like, well, let me just get out the energy. 20 minutes on the bike or something. Meditation sometimes works, like a five-minute meditation. And sometimes, honestly, seeing your friends and having a glass of wine and laughing.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, I agree.
Speaker 2: Actually, yesterday I was quite frustrated all day. Really frustrated. Don't know why I woke up like that. And I ended the night with two girlfriends having wine, and it made me really happy just having dinner and-
Johanna Almstea...: [inaudible 01:14:08] the world right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: I agree.
Speaker 2: I think that makes the world right. I think, I don't know if you feel that, but as we get older as women, we really value our friendships, our girlfriends, and I get a lot of strength from that.
Johanna Almstea...: So much. So much. I feel like that is my coping mechanism almost all the time, is sitting up at the bar or at a dinner with a friend and some good wine and laughter and just reminding me who I am, I think sometimes that is. I think your friends are often a good mirror to hold up to you, right?
Speaker 2: Completely. And I think that's something we forget about ourselves when we're mothers and when we're running a business or working, you forget who you really are deep down inside, which your friends never forget.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. Okay. Dream dinner party guest list. You can have anyone you want, they're all going to say yes because they know it's your party. Who are you inviting?
Speaker 2: Okay. I would invite, at this point in my life, I would invite Leonora Carrington, artist. I would invite Lee Miller as well, another artist. Who else would I invite? I would invite all my girlfriends, of course. Oh, Christiane Amanpour I would like to invite.
Johanna Almstea...: Ooh. Bring some gravitas to the table.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would bring some gravitas to the table. Probably invite a tennis player. It would be between Bjorn Borg or Federer.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. You can invite both just for a little bit of healthy competition.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. Why not? We can bring them. I'm trying to think of if I would invite any politicians at this moment in time. I would like to invite the Queen of England. That would be interesting. I wouldn't mind meeting her, just to try to understand her brain. Jesus Christ would be a good idea.
Johanna Almstea...: You're not the first to say that. He's a popular guest. I like it.
Speaker 2: He'd be a great guest to try to understand. And Gandhi would be another one that would be really interesting. I think that would be interesting.
Johanna Almstea...: Do you think Gandhi likes tennis?
Speaker 2: Probably not. You have to have a lot of serenity when you're playing tennis, so I bet you they could learn from each other.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I love it. That sounds like a really good party. I feel like that might last into the night for sure.
Speaker 2: You know what? I would love to maybe invite a musician, maybe like Led Zeppelin, a band or something like that. That would be quite cool as well.
Johanna Almstea...: And would you want them to play at the dinner or are they just guests?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't mind. No, they could play for us, too. That would be fantastic.
Johanna Almstea...: They could have a little jam, like a little impromptu jam session before.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Johanna Almstea...: I'm into it. Okay. Lastly, what is one thing that you know for sure right now in this moment? You don't need to know it tomorrow, you didn't need to know it yesterday, what's one thing for sure right now?
Speaker 2: One thing that I know for sure is that I am where I need to be.
Johanna Almstea...: Amazing. Amazing. That's a wonderful place to be, huh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: Can you please tell the nice people who are listening where they can find you and Borgo de Nor?
Speaker 2: They can find us on Instagram @borgodenor, and they can find us on our website, borgodenor.com.
Johanna Almstea...: So it's B-O-R-G-O-D-E-N-O-R, right?
Speaker 2: Yes. .com.
Johanna Almstea...: .com.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: This has been such a delight. I miss you. This has made me miss you so much.
Speaker 2: I know, I know. But I'm hoping to come to New York soon. Hopefully we can see each other.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, please. Can we please have dinner and drinks and make the world right again?
Speaker 2: Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: Thank you so much for taking this time. I know that it's a crazy time for you and a busy time, and I know your boys are probably knocking down your door any minute. But I appreciate so much you sharing yourself and your story.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Johanna Almstea...: I know it's going to inspire people and that this time has just been a gift, so thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for wanting to interview me, and it's been so nice to see you. Thank you so much.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, that was so fun. So many memories, so much inspiration. I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did. If you think you know somebody who might enjoy this, please share the episode with them. You can copy the link in your media player and you can send it over text, you can post it on Instagram, you can send it in an email, you can send it so many ways, but please share it with anyone who you think might benefit from it. We are actively trying to grow this community every day, so the more you share it, the more people listening, the longer we can keep doing this. I'm so grateful to all of you for tuning in. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If you are not doing so already, please follow us on social media. We are eatmywordsthepodcast on TikTok and Instagram. I'm so lucky to be here and I'm so grateful for all of you, so thank you, thank you, thank you, and I will catch you on the next one.
This Eat My Words podcast has been created and directed by me, Johanna Almstead. Our producer is Sophy Drouin. Our audio editor is Isabel Robertson. And our brand manager is Mila Bushna.