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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
Speaker 7: Hi friends, this is Steve
Gladen, and I wanted to jump in
here really quick before we started
this podcast just to give you an
update on Ron and his journey.
He discovered recently that he has
colon cancer, something that he and
his wife Barbara weren't expecting,
but they would appreciate your prayers.
He has a lot of wisdom to give out to
this world and has a lot of books in store
in his head that he wants to get out.
But most of all, he needs the prayers
and just the covering with his family.
So as you listen to this, if you
could be praying for him, I know he
would appreciate it and so would I.
God bless.
Louisa: Hello!
And welcome to a special S G Squared.
Pastor Steve Gladen and his guest,
Ron Kelleher, recorded this episode
at this year's Lobby Gathering event.
Listen to learn how you can win a free
autographed copy of Ron's new book.
Ron and Steve Gladen each have
over 25 years of experience to
encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen, and learn, together.
Speaker 5: Hey, everybody.
Welcome to SG Squared, Steve
Gladden on small groups.
Only on these ep- this episode,
we're in the, at our lobby
gathering that we hold every year.
And, uh, I have with me Ron
Kelleher, who I'll introduce to
you in just a couple of seconds.
But, uh, uh, this particular episode,
we're just kinda getting Ron Kelleher raw.
So we brought him into the studio, and
we're just gonna f- uh, find out about
his new book that he's got coming out,
and, uh, how you guys can win a copy
of it, and I'll tell you about that
a little bit later on in the podcast.
But for right now, Ron,
it's great to have you here.
Welcome to SG Squared.
Speaker 6: Oh, thanks so much, Steve.
It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
It's, uh, it's great to
have you here and all that.
So Ron, if you, if you could, um,
I, I know you're, uh ⦠Boy, we've,
we've got like 30 years together.
Yes, indeed.
But, but the audience
doesn't quite know that.
Uh, doesn't know you, uh,
as well as I want them to.
And so Ron, can you give us a
little bit of your background?
Let's talk about your family first.
Okay.
Tell us how long you've been married.
Speaker 6: All right.
Speaker 5: Kiddos that you
have, something like that.
'Cause, uh, I see you every
Saturday- ⦠4:00 service,
and so, uh, but they don't, so.
Speaker 6: All right.
Uh, I have, uh, been married for 40 years
to, uh, Barbara, the love of my life.
Mm.
And, uh, uh, we have two adopted children.
Justin is from India, and our
daughter Rebecca is Filipino.
And so w- we have, uh, quite the
international house of, of people.
Um- ⦠Justin is special needs, so
he's, uh, while he's 43 years old,
he's still with Mom and Dad, and
we help- Mm ⦠take care of him.
Daughter is, uh, married to a
wonderful young man and has given
us two terrific grandchildren.
Speaker 5: Ah, the old grandkids.
I tell you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's exhausting,
but it's the greatest pleasure ever.
Speaker 5: So true.
So true.
So Ron, you, walk us through
a little bit of yourâ¦
I, I know you've written
a great ministry book.
We're gonna get into that
in just a, a little bit.
But walk us in through your work career.
I mean, uh, just for giggles,
what was your first job?
Speaker 6: First job was mowing
lawns probably when I was 12,
maybe even a little younger.
I went around the neighborhood and mowed
lawns for, I think it was, like, 50
cents an hour or something like that.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 6: That was back when
the minimum wage was probably
a dollar and a quarter an hour.
So I probably felt like I was doing
pretty good at 10 or 12 years old.
Speaker 5: Knowing your business
acumen, uh, that does not
surprise me you went per hour.
Yeah.
I, I wasn't quite as educated as you.
I just did per house.
Oh.
And yeah, sometimes I got, they
got a great deal- ⦠so with that.
So good for you, though.
You're, you're smart.
So, uh, you have a, a quite an
illustrious, uh, professional career in
the marketplace, and can you just give us
a brief snapshot of that piece at- Sure
Procter
& Speaker 6: Gamble?
Sure.
I spent 36 years with Procter & Gamble.
I was really fortunate.
Uh, I got hired right out of college.
Uh, I grew up in Washington.
The first job I had with P&G
was here in Southern California
in the Los Angeles area.
So I packed up my car and moved,
and had a wonderful 36-year career.
Started about- I think it was about
the first half, uh, maybe not quite
half, 15 years or so I was in the sales
department, then P&G created a couple
of new kind of different kinds of roles.
Uh, they felt like P&G is a wonderful
marketing company and, and they felt
like we could do a better job of helping
some of our customers market our brands.
So they created s- kind of some hybrid
roles, and I had one of those hybrid
roles where I worked on, uh, helping our
customers learn how to market our brands
better, and that led to some success here
in LA and then, uh, the West Coast, and
then ultimately I was doing marketing,
uh, for national, uh, on a national
basis for our multicultural businesses,
so supporting our African American and
Hispanic communities in particular.
Speaker 5: All right.
And, uh, so when you were working
at, at P&G, you know, what was
the, the highlight of your career?
What was the, the thing
you loved the most?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think, uh, in the, e-
especially in the, uh, in the marketing
phase of my career, the thing I loved
the most was being able to do new
things that nobody else had done before.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, there, there was a lot that was
done, um, nationally by our brand
marketers in Cincinnati, but they didn't
scope down into the local marketing.
Mm.
And so for me, uh, you know, I got to
do a lot of things locally in different
markets around the United States
that nobody else had done before, and
some of those things worked Sort of.
And, and some of them
worked spectacularly.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 6: Um, uh, so, you know, being
able to, to invent new ideas and,
and try new things was, was probably
the thing that, that, uh, encouraged
me and got me motivated the most.
Speaker 5: Now, Ron, I know that you ended
up taking retirement, but I know you, and
I watched you not be able to sit still.
And so you, you did g- you did exit
the corporate world, and, uh, God
took you on a little bit of a journey.
So can you share a little bit about that?
And I don't know where Saddleback ⦠I
know, I know parts of your world.
I don't know where Saddleback kinda
w- you know, if you always went to
Saddleback or, you know, what, what,
how, how'd that ha- all transpire?
Speaker 6: Okay.
So the Saddleback journey, Saddleback was
actually the third church, I think, that
we had attended in Southern California.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 6: Um, my, my wife and I w-
grew up, um, in families that were,
were s- irreligious, I think, it'd
be the best- You know, they just,
they kinda left it up to the kids to
figure out what they wanted to do.
And it was when we had children
that Barb and I both felt like
something was missing in our lives.
And a kind neighbor invited us to
church, and we went to a church up
in, uh, Irvine, and that was terrific
until that church kind of imploded.
Mm.
And we went to a smaller church,
um, in South Orange County,
and really loved the pastor.
Got a l- uh, so much out of that
environment until they had a new, uh,
childhood education person who felt
like they couldn't manage Justin and
his special needs- Oh, yeah ⦠and
wanted to put him in a classroom of
his age rather than his ability level.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And we couldn't do that.
So we left there, and weren't
church for a little while.
And then one of my coworkers said,
"Hey, you know, there's this other
church in, uh, uh, the Mission
Viejo area called Saddleback.
You oughta, you oughta give them
a call and, and give it a try."
So I called up and got connected
to a wonderful woman named Pastor
Ellie Edwards, who was- Oh,
Ellie ⦠responsible for the
childhood education department.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And this was totally a God
intervention thing because I, I talked
to Ellie and she said, "Why don't
you bring Justin and, and you come in
here, and we'll talk for a minute?"
And she, uh, she said, "You know,
a week ago, a woman that teaches
special needs kids in the school came
in and volunteered and said, 'If you
have any special needs kids, I'll
run the Sunday classroom for 'em.'"
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 6: So Justin became the first of
what Saddleback now calls Special Stars.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And, um, so that's why
Saddleback has been our home ever
since, because there's a loving
environment there for our son.
Speaker 5: Wow.
And you're just not just a
receiver, you're also a giver.
And so I, I, I know that when
you took early retirement-
that, that was a, a new bud
that was growing and, uh,
blossomed into, uh, many things.
But walk us through a little bit
of that journey because you took
early retirement and you said, "I
think Jesus has something for me."
Speaker 6: I had been involved with
workplace ministry at Saddleback
ever since, uh, Rick Warren wore
socks and had hair, and so did I.
Uh, many moons ago, a young Rick
Warren, uh, wa- was being mentored.
Uh, a- and, uh, he realized as a
young pastor that he didn't understand
the business community as well as
he thought he should, and so he had
invited several of us businesspeople in.
We met every, uh, Monday afternoon in
his office, and that began, began the
start of the workplace ministry, reaching
out to men and women in the workplace.
Um, and so over the years, I was
involved with the workplace ministry
in a variety of forms as a volunteer.
Um, but that led up to the
retirement when I was, uh, 57.
I really felt like God was calling
me into a different phase of my life,
that I wanted to be able to devote
the rest of my life to Christ and- Mm
and specifically to the workplace
ministry, where I'd been
volunteering for years and years.
Uh, and so I, I bravely s- talked
to my wife about taking retirement
early, and she asked me two questions.
She said, "Can we afford to do
this, and do we have insurance
that'll help take care of our son?"
And- Aw ⦠I said, "Yep.
We, we have both."
And then she sa- she said,
"Well, then you have to follow
what God is leading you to do."
So I retired in June- That's beautiful
⦠of 2009 and started seminary at, at
Talbot Seminary, um, that fall of 2009.
Speaker 5: As a Fuller graduate, I
don't know if I like the Talbot story.
But, you know, keep, keep
going with this, you know.
And then what happened?
Speaker 6: Uh, so I graduated from
Talbot with my master's in biblical
studies and theology in 2012.
And on my, on my way almost out the
door, I was recruited to be the chief
operations officer of a missions
organization here in Southern California.
It was an old organization, and,
uh, they brought me on board to
help rebuild the ministry and
reposition it to a younger audience.
And so I spent a couple of
years helping them do that.
I'd been on their board for 20
years, so I was equipped to, to
help them reposition the ministry.
But ultimately, I still felt like
my calling was to the workplace.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: So after helping out the
ministry for a couple of years, I
decided to step away and, and start
focusing on what I think God had called
me to do, which is really jump into
the workplace ministry full time.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
And, uh, for a little bit of a
backdrop there, I know Ron hasâ¦
You've been deeply involved in all
the aspects of the workplace ministry.
And, uh, at the end of this podcast, you
know, we'll be able to get some contact
information for Ron because I think,
you know, dealing in the small group
ministry world, one of the untapped
veins that you have in your church
is mobilizing those people that work,
whether they're working at a fast food
place, whether they're working at a
blue-collar job or a, a white-collar job.
You have a whole harness of, of people
ready to do some amazing kingdom stuff,
but the church isn't equipping them.
And so not only will, uh, Ron be willing
to help you, but also his book is gonna
be, uh, a lasting guidebook with that.
So a very beautiful piece.
Ron, uh, before we jump into that,
I wanna just let our listeners know
that we're gonna be giving away six
copies of his book to six lucky people.
Uh, a little bit later in the podcast
I'll, I'll let you know how you can
win those signed, autographed copies.
You know, that's what is gonna
take it over the top, but there's
a lot of meat in those books.
But Ron, you- Mm-hmm ⦠you
helped with the workplace ministry.
You were a ferocious writer.
Can you, can you dive into
that just a little bit?
And then we're gonna
start to unpack your book.
Speaker 6: All right.
So my writing started as soon as I
got out of seminary, and as I said,
I was really focused on leadership,
Christian leadership in the workplace.
So I started writing a blog
article, um, way back when, and
now I've written, uh, just 701.
Yesterday I finished 701 article numbers.
Yes.
Speaker 5: Yes.
701.
Speaker 6: I have published weekly,
uh, over the years and, and I've been
very fortunate to be able to do that.
So that, that's the backbone of
the workplace leadership, Christian
leadership ministry that I've formed.
Speaker 5: Now, Ron, w- so we'll talk
about this a little bit later on, but,
uh, since you mentioned that you've been
publishing weekly, what, if someone's,
like, listening and, uh, right now,
where, where would they find those 701-
bits of nuggets?
The, uh, the- And when Ron
writes, by the way, he, he, he
gives you your full money worth.
Speaker 6: The, the, uh, the
articles are on the ronkelleher.com
blog, and, uh, they're all right there.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
In the show notes you'll see a
link to his website, and you'll
be able to, uh, you know, enjoy
that, but it's ronkelleher.com.
And Ron, you wrote a book,
uh, just came out recently.
Uh, we'll talk about another
one that, that just, you know,
came on the heels of this one.
But that's a, that's another chapter
we'll get into in just a second.
But, uh, Kingdom Leadership: Embodying
Christ in the Work- in the Marketplace.
So Kingdom Leadership: Embodying
Christ in the Marketplace.
Ron, uh, talk to us a little bit, uh, I-
I know you know the book well enough, you
could probably, you know, quote it, the
whole thing, but, um, give us an overview
of who is the target audience of this,
and what are some of the high-level pieces
that people would get out of getting this
book, Kingdom Leadership, if they aren't
one of the lucky six people to get the
signed copy of the Ron Kelleher book?
Speaker 6: All right.
The, the book grew out of, uh, actually
the articles that I'd been writing.
Yeah.
Uh, and I, and I had people say,
"Hey, you should write a book."
And I kept thinking, "I don't
know what I'd write a book about."
And they said, "But you have
all this content, um, thousands,
tens of thousands-" "⦠hundreds
of thousands of words.
There's books in there."
Millions.
And, and so I kept thinking about it,
and I kept thinking about the, the issues
that most people in the workplace as
Christians face, and that is, is that
We as Christians are operating for the
most part in a secular world, and we're
going to have a challenge to integrate
our faith and do it effectively.
And that was what most of the people that
gave me questions would say is, "How do
I integrate my faith in the marketplace?"
And w- Mm ⦠and we had done a survey,
and we found that 80% of people that are
Christians in the workplace said, "Hey,
I know it's important for me to do this.
I wanna integrate my
faith in the workplace."
But nearly 70% said, "I
don't know how to do it."
Mm.
And, and about 60% said, "And not only
that, but I'm afraid to do it because I'm
afraid- Yeah ⦠it might hurt my career."
And so with that as a background, it kind
of helped form the structure of the book.
I started looking at leadership
characteristics of successful leaders in
the Bible, and looking at, over time, what
worked out for leaders in the Bible, what
made them successful, what characteristics
did they have that made them successful
leaders in, in one field or another.
And so out of that bubbled up 12 specific
characteristics that I thought were
particularly important for us as Christian
leaders in the marketplace today.
Speaker 5: So when you look at those
12, Ron, I know they're all important.
Uh, are there a couple that stand
out to you a little bit more as
your, the ones that you love?
Speaker 6: I yeah, the two, one, one that
I, um, I struggle with and, and one that,
um, kind of k- kind of is most enjoyable
to me now in this stage of my life.
The one I struggled with the
most is the idea of stewardship.
So I understood- Mm ⦠the idea of
stewardship from a f- from a how do
you use your money point of view.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Uh, uh, but what I ultimately
s- saw as I developed the framework of
this book was that stewardship is a whole
lot more than what we do with our money.
That's good.
Stewardship is all about all the
resources that God has entrusted to us,
and how do we steward those resources.
So it's, yes, it is our money, it's
our finances, but it's also our
time, it's our treasures, it's all
the things that God has given us.
In the workplace, we have our time and our
skillsets and all these other attributes
and skills that God has given us.
How are we stewarding those, and
are we giving our best in each
and every one of those things?
So stewardship was, was probably the
one that hit me the hardest as a young
Christian leader because I thought, "I
may not be doing the best I could with
my time management or with my management
of my resources or the management of the
people that work with me and for me."
So that one, that one was a
compelling one for me to work on.
Speaker 5: I love, I love how you even
framed that, the one that you kinda
struggled with, the one that you loved.
And, uh, just all by itself, the
stewardship chapter will be gold for you.
But sorry to interrupt you.
Uh, you're on a roll, but I just- ⦠it
really s- strikes me that you can
take a s- very simple concept, and
there's so much depth to it that
can help people 'cause you're right.
A lot of times w- especially in the
church world, you think of, "Hey,"
when we're talking stewardship, it
is about money, but God gives us so
many things that, that help with that.
Uh, flip it over on the other side.
You, you said there's one
that you do love, though.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the chapter
on prayerful leadership is the
other one that I I didn't really
understand as a young Christian-
Speaker 5: Hmm
Speaker 6: as much as I'd like
to think I understand it today.
As a, as a young Christian, you know, I
felt like prayer was important surrounding
my family and in individual things that
I was doing, but it wasn't something that
entered into my business life, honestly.
Not very much.
I didn't- Mm-hmm ⦠I- if I was
confronted with a crisis, I thought,
"What am I gonna do about this?
I've gotta take action."
And what I realized as I got older
is, you know, I need to slow down
and I need to come to God and say,
"God, what should I do about this?"
before I take action.
And that's one of those principles
that I saw with successful leaders in
the Bible, people like, uh, Nehemiah,
uh, who came to God in the midst
of so many crises, and he said- Hmm
"God, what do I need to
do before I move ahead?"
And that was a lesson that I,
uh- Hmm ⦠I came to really
appreciate as I got older.
Speaker 5: No, that, I mean that's,
that's, that's so rich, and I, I, I love
getting the perspective of people who
have lived some life together because
you, you start to learn very quickly
about the, uh, the, the beauties.
Youâ¦
And again, another common word you
hear in church world is prayer.
But, uh, as you unpack this and you
start to see the power of it and how it
can help you engaging in the workplace,
'cause so often we, especially depending
on where you're, you're wire- how
you're wired, you wanna, you wanna
do, do, do, do, and you wanna- Yeah
you wanna get it done.
And, and if you're working, you're
trying to do the job right and
trying to do it really well.
But, uh, all of a sudden, you know,
also when you get into spiritual
matters, you're, like, going,
"God, I got this one," and, uh,
how prayer helps out so much.
Um, so you, you got the book
here on, uh, kingdom leadership.
Uh, w- who, who would you say,
Ron, that this is targeted to?
Who would, who would
manage best by reading it?
Speaker 6: Well, originally I felt like
the target audience, if you will, would be
a young Christian, someone like who I was
when I first became a Christian is- Hmm
⦠someone who has committed their lives to
Christ but is now wondering, "Okay, how
do I now fulfill this calling of mine?
How do I live out my
faith in the marketplace?"
Because most of us don't come
with instruction manuals that
tell us exactly how to do that.
Hmm.
And I, I don't think my book by itself
is gonna do that, but it will certainly
paint a picture and, and p- Create a
journey that people can go on to help
build up their framework of how do I
live out my faith in the marketplace by
following the 12, uh, strategies and, and
techniques that I talk about in the book.
Speaker 5: Yeah, as Ron said that,
uh, just as you look through the table
of contents, I know Ron's gonna hate
me when I say this, you can, uh, go
to one that maybe gravitate to who
you are, uh, and that you feel is, is
maybe a, a growth area for you, but
all 12 areas would help you so much.
And even I think of my son who is, uh,
and my daughter who are both going through
the early stages in their 20s of going
into the work environment, and being in
the work environment, how each one of
these 12 would help, all the way that
when Ron asked me to get an advanced
copy to read it, and just like going,
"Oh my, these are little things I should
sharpen my blade with a little bit-"
is, uh, it's a good piece
for each one of you.
So, uh, Ron, before I jump into
the, the book that's following on
the heels of this, uh, anything
else you want the listeners to
know about, uh, Kingdom Leadership?
Speaker 6: I think this is the
greatest untapped potential for us as
believers- Mm ⦠to impact the world.
Isn't just this book that I've written,
but the idea of how do I integrate
my faith in the work- workplace?
How do I, how do I embody
Christ in the marketplace?
If we can figure that out as a Christian
community, we can change the world
one person, one workplace at a time.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
And Ron, I think, and you can't, you
wouldn't say this about yourself,
but he, he has got 36 years of
working in a major corporation in
the United States, and there's so
much wealth of wisdom in there that
you've navigated a number of terrains.
And when you add, you know, you're
following Christ in your, how it's been
embodied in you, you've taken the best of
both worlds and kinda molded them together
so that people, wherever you're working,
can help out and take it to another place.
Uh, you're listening to Ron
Kelleher, uh, ronkelleher.com.
He just wrote his book,
Kingdom Leadership: Embodying
Christ in the Marketplace.
Uh, I've known Ron for decades, uh,
seeing him do it practically in the
workplace ministry at Saddleback Church.
Uh, but Ron, you, um, just on the
heels of this, and I know you're a
writer- ⦠but it's really ridiculous-
⦠uh, uh, what you're cranking out.
But, uh, give us a little taste
of the book that's coming after
this one, and then I wanna let our
listeners know how they can, uh, win
a free copy of Kingdom Leadership.
Speaker 6: Sure.
So the Kingdom Leadership book
took a while to actually write and
then produce to get to the point
where we launched it on March 1st.
So while the editors and the designers
and all the people were working on
bringing Kingdom Leadership to, uh,
reality, I was writing the second book,
which is called Faith-Driven Leadership.
Which is w- a fun book to me.
I looked at 20 different Bible characters,
and I looked at their leadership
strengths and weaknesses and how
their faith impacted their leadership.
And so that book is, uh, now designed,
and we're, we're, uh, proofreading it
now, and that one will launch July 1st.
Speaker 5: And when that's out and,
and you're available to snag it,
we'll get Ron back on the show right
here and, uh, kinda dive into that.
Because on SG Squared: Steve Gladden
on Small Groups, you know, we talk
a lot about small groups, strategy,
structures, you know, things that can
help the small group point leaders.
Uh, one of the things I love to do is just
seeing how we can impact the marketplace.
Uh, everyone's gotta work or
they're doing some type of work.
And even if you're a stay-at-home mom or
dad, uh, you have influence with people
that you're, you're working with, and
these 12 principles would certainly help
you and, and take you to that new level.
If you wanna get a copy of this, if you
email me at steve@smallgroupnetwork.com,
that's steve@smallgroupnetwork.com,
we're gonna be giving the book,
a free copy of the book to the
second, fourth, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12.
Uh, I, I do know my
math fair- fairly good.
But if you're those people that are
the second, the fourth, the sixth, the
eighth, the 10th, and the 12th person to
just send me your address, say, "I want
a copy of Ron Kelleher's book, Kingdom
Leadership," you don't have to be that
exact, but just let me know you want Ron's
book, uh, we'll s- we'll e- we'll mail
that to you any place, uh, in the world.
So if you're listening abroad, which
I know a lot of our listeners are,
we wanna serve you as best we can.
May take a little while to get there,
but we will get it out in the mail.
So if you're one of those that hits the
even numbers for the first six copies of
the book to steve@smallgroupnetwork.com,
you'll be able to get a free copy.
Ron, uh, before, as we're wrapping
this up, uh, is there something else
you wanna tell the listeners and, uh,
also tell us how we can get to know
and how we can get in contact with you?
Speaker 6: Sure.
So the easiest way to get a hold of
me is, uh, uh, ron@ronkelleher.com
if you wanna send me an email.
Uh, you'll find, uh, I also have a,
a Facebook page, uh, Ron Kelleher
on Facebook, and you can find me on
LinkedIn under Ron Kelleher as well.
Speaker 5: Great.
Uh, anything you wanna tell the listeners
as we're wrapping up this episode?
Speaker 6: You know, for your audience,
Steve, I would just say- Take advantage
of every opportunity you have to dig
into your own leadership style, to
see how you can embody Christ better
wherever it is you live out your life.
Whether you're in a church
environment or a marketplace
environment, it does not matter.
We all should be embodying
Christ in our everyday life.
So dig in, find out what it takes to be
a better leader, and be one every day.
Speaker 5: Kingdom Leadership: Embodying
Christ in the Marketplace by Ron R.
Kelleher.
I don't think I know your middle name.
What's R.?
Speaker 6: Ray.
Speaker 5: Ray.
Speaker 6: Named for my father.
Speaker 5: I love it.
Ron Ray Kelleher, but it's Ron R.
Kelleher.
You can, uh, get that wherever your books
are sold if you wanna pick it up that way.
Uh, but if I were you, I'd pick it
up the freeway and, uh- Not like a
freeway, the roadway, uh, but a free
way to get it, the book with that.
So email me at
steve@smallgroupnetwork.com,
and if you're one of those lucky on the
even numbers, we'll give you a free copy.
We'll mail it to you.
Uh, just wanna thank you for listening
in on this particular episode.
We're, uh, live at the lobby.
We're just g- grabbing a lot of the people
that are here and just, uh, helping you
get to know their, their tender side
and their strategic side with that.
So just wanna thank you for being,
uh, a part of the show, and, uh,
just wanna say God bless and goodbye.
Speaker 6: Thanks so much,
Steve, for having me on.
Speaker 5: You bet.
God bless you, Ron.
See you later.
Louisa: Thank you for listening!
And don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.
If you'd like to go deeper and get
more resources or join the small
group network, just head over
to small group network dot com.
We'll see you next time!