Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Regenerative by Design Podcast where we get to the root of health, climate, economics and food. Host, Joni Kindwall-Moore, is an RN, an Ethnobotanist and the founder of Snacktivist Foods. Join us on this journey as we explore the ideas, stories and personalities behind the regenerative food system movement including climate change, human health, economics and food as well as other deeply interconnected topics.
In this podcast, we will be “going there” and leaning into topics that might make you squirm… just a little. We want to challenge ourselves to think outside of the box and to discover the deeper side of our world’s problems so that we can better understand how to solve them.
We aim to unpack some of the most dynamic issues of our day with some of the most inspiring minds who are pushing the boundaries of our current norms and thinking paradigms.
We have seen incredibly disruptive events in the past few years like pandemics, climate events, disasters and war. These often trigger system changes that are reactionary and have short term gains. When these are practiced over the long term, they often have a degenerative effect on health and the environment.
Regenerative design thinking is the opposite, and is an intentional, premeditated process that involves a high level of observation, analysis, creativity, and looking beyond reductionistic principles while embracing systems thinking and additionality to create regenerative solutions.
Regenerative agriculture has become a powerful force for positive transformation and hope in todays world. And no discussion about agriculture is complete without a conversation about food.
Food is the connection between people and the planet so grab a cup of coffee or your favorite running shoes and get ready to take a mental and philosophical leap into the future of food and our planet.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Hello
everyone, you are listening to
the regenerative by design
podcast where we will be getting
to the root of health, climate,
economics and food. I am your
host, Joanie Kenmore. Join me on
this journey as we explore the
stories of individuals and
organizations who are working to
realign our food system with
both human health and the health
of our planet.
Hello, and welcome, everybody.
We are starting our second
season of the regenerative by
design podcast, and our first
ever segments on what's
happening in the organic
industry. And we're gonna kick
this off most appropriately with
Colleen Kavanaugh, who is my
business partner, and an overall
champion and pioneer of
incredible transparency and
health. Welcome, Colleen, we're
so happy to have you. Thank you,
Joanie,
I'm thrilled to be launching
this. It's so exciting. It's
such like the next phase of 10
years of work. So it's really
thrilling. For
those of you who joined me in my
last season, we took a journey
through the food system
transformation that's happening
in this in our modern times
where we're really looking to
realign the goals of our food
system and agricultural
industry, with those of human
health and care for the
environment. And if you joined
my last season, you probably
know that we went in all kinds
of different directions, ranging
from topics around nutrition and
nutrient density, all the way
through to soil health and deep
chemistry and a lot of fun
farming information. In this
season, season two, we're
actually going to do a lot of
talking about human health,
nutrition and exposure to
chemicals. Now, Colleen is an
expert in the food space when it
comes to recognizing and helping
consumers to understand what is
on their food, why they don't
want to have exposure to that,
and making it a like an overall
fun experience and calling my
boat to kick this session off,
because I feel like the work
you've done is so unique and so
different than anybody else I've
ever met. Like what brought you
to this point today? Like why
are you a food entrepreneur? And
what made you start zego foods?
Colleen Kavanagh: It's a really
good question, because it was
quite a long pathway. So I
started out, wanting to get
involved in politics and making
the world a better place. And I
worked on Capitol Hill for our
congressman for about five years
on programs like school lunch,
and food stamps and things like
that, trying to improve
nutrition for low income kids. I
also worked on the school lunch
program itself, running
government affairs for them. And
I discovered over time that no
matter how hard we tried to
recraft, the regulations to make
the food healthier in those
programs are only a reflection
of the big food industry that
was lobbying them. And there
really wasn't anything that we
could do from the congressional
level because those forces were
so powerful. And the big like
aha moment for me was during the
Obama administration that we
were working with Michelle
Obama's staff and a bunch of
like minded people on Capitol
Hill to improve the nutrition
standards for high schools,
particularly in in their snack
bars, and the sales that they do
for vending machines, because
that's where a lot of high
school kids get all their
calories during the day. And we
were waiting with bated breath
to find out what is big food
going to do now that we have
these great new nutrition
standards. And about three
months later, the first product
that was launched, and this is
not even the punchline of a
joke, but it sounds like it. It
was a Kellogg's brown rice
krispies treat. Right, and we
just threw up our hands. And
we're like, that's not what we
knew. That wasn't what we meant.
And I guess they're always gonna
find a way around us. Yes. So
Joni Kindwall-Moore: I think
that's a lesson a lot of people
have, have literally encountered
where you're trying to create
change. And you realize,
sometimes you just have to take,
you know, the bull by the horns,
for lack of a better word and
say, We're gonna just create
what we want to see, because it
falls on deaf ears when it gets
out to those big layers of
corporate involvement or
business structures that take a
long time to change or are
unwilling to change. Exactly.
Colleen Kavanagh: And I had
spent so many years working with
constituents, right grassroots
folks to try to get support for
bills that my congressman wanted
to get past or to try to help
the school lunch program change
and get the people you know, who
are interested in program
calling Capitol Hill. So I knew
the power of that activating the
consumer who cares about what
you're doing? And so I decided I
would start a food company to
kind of get inside the belly of
the beast and see like what's
happening in the food industry
that we have such a rise in
autism, asthma, allergies, all
of this was happening around you
know, 2010 about when I started
the company And then and then
figure out where to go from
there. So we knew that there was
a gap in the food system, then
there still is healthy food for
people who have who have health
related diets. So restricted
diet. So whether you have severe
food allergies, you have celiac
disease, you have diabetes, the
products that were being named
for people that are compliant
with those diets were really
highly processed imitations of
their counterparts. So cookies,
cakes, pizzas, things like that.
A puff, puff things from
pirates. Yeah, yeah, really
manipulated. And there were a
lot of starches, which we know
are not good for us. High
glycemic, lots of sugar. So we
said, Okay, well, let's do the
hard thing. Let's make a food
that meets all of those dietary
standards for all those special
diets. But it's based on
superfoods foods that are whole
grains, and good for us. So
fruit seeds, and oats. And let's
build products out of that,
instead of trying to imitate
making a cookie or a cake, we
were going to just build
products from those ingredients
that are healthier for people,
so that people who have special
diets could get the healthiest
versions of those foods instead
of the least healthy.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah, it
really is a design process. And
if you've never owned a food
company, or worked deep inside a
food company, you don't realize
that the design process behind
the development of new food
products is usually not guided
by those principles of like,
what's going to deliver the best
health what's going to deliver,
you know, those overarching
principles that you're trying to
achieve. The design process is
usually driven just by price
point, and shelf life. And those
are two very conflicting design
processes when you're trying to
realign the food system with the
needs of human health.
And I would add to that
machinability,
Ed Bejarana: This episode of the
regenerative by design podcast
is brought to you by snacktivist
nation, elevating climate smart
crops and regenerative supply
chains through innovative
products and transparent market
development.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: So if you
haven't been, you have no idea,
you can have the greatest idea,
you can make the best hand pie
and sell it to the local bakery,
and you make it in your kitchen.
And when you get into a factory,
you have to make that on a big
machine and a that that's 500 or
1000 pounds. Yeah, completely
different. And then how it mixes
how it moves through the
machinery, how many pounds of
pressure does that explode the
proteins and the fibers like
there's a lot of damage that you
can just do taking those same
ingredients and putting them
through an extruder at a really
high pressure, you can ruin all
that attrition.
Yes, and that's something that
most people just don't have
insight into. So I love I love
meeting other entrepreneurs that
are trying to truly rethink the
design process of foods that are
available at scale on the
market, and try to maintain that
integrity.
Colleen Kavanagh: Really
important. And the integrity is
where we go to the next part of
our story, which is that we were
launching an allergy free
product, but without really
understanding what that meant.
And so we were not an allergy
free facility. And instead, but
people and people raise concerns
that these were not gonna be
allergy safe, I started testing
our products, and the tests were
coming out clean that they were
Allard, they did not have any of
the top allergens in them. And I
wanted to be able to show them
that this was a, this was a
clean product. So gosh, wouldn't
it be great if we could just
have them scan this bar, and
know that it was free of these
allergens? And of course, QR
code technology was pretty new
in the US at the time. But we
could do that with a QR code and
linking our lab results to the
QR code on the package. So that
just started us down a whole new
road of purity and transparency
and health.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah, and
I'm glad that you took it that
direction. Because it's one
thing to pioneer food and food
products. It's another thing to
pioneer a new consumer interface
where people can have direct
access to information about
their food. That is a poor
safety, which when you're
dealing with allergens is a big
deal. But also for just a deeper
understanding of connection,
like, you know, is if they're
labeling this as organic, is it
really organic? Can I see that
there is proof that maybe if
we've imported this organic
ingredient from another country,
where we don't have as much, you
know, hands on control, there's
a lot of different hands that
change custody of the of the
ingredient as it goes around the
world. Does it still have the
integrity that that organic
label stands for? And these are
things that you have hit on
that? You know, I think last for
many, many years. Definitely for
a decade. I've heard people talk
a lot about it, but seldom do I
meet people who actually figure
out a solution and a way to help
remedy this communication on
pack in the food system.
Colleen Kavanagh: It is hard to
do it on pack because you have
so little space at the time we
were making protein bars. So
that's a very how to space,
right? So really all we could
do. But we did end up learning.
So learning the process, doing
the allergy piece and the gluten
piece. And then in 2016, started
testing for glyphosate because
there was concern about
glyphosate, even within the
organic industry. And so we
wanted to test our products and
say, see, hey, what's going on
here, if we're organic, we want
to be able to be proud of that.
But people were starting to
doubt the organic, the validity
of the organic certification,
and say, tested all of our
products. And lo and behold, the
cinnamon that we were using was
chock full of glyphosate, even
though it was organic, and
that's fraud. Right. So that's
fraud. It's not okay. But we
wouldn't have known it had we
not tested. Yeah, that's a
chance then to find a new
supplier. I mean, we tried to
work it out with that supplier,
and they were like talk to the
hand. So that's a good reason to
switch suppliers on a new
supplier, but you really have to
keep testing because as you
know, glyphosate is out there,
right, it drips it, you know,
and for
Joni Kindwall-Moore: those of
you who are listening, I think
probably most of you are
familiar with the word
glyphosate. But it's what we
commonly call Roundup. Like if
you go to Home Depot. It's a
common weed killer. It's
considered a biocide. It's a
broad spectrum antibiotic. And
it is used on so many different
things throughout our food
system. A lot of attention has
been paid in the last couple of
years to using glyphosate as
what's called a desiccant. So if
they go in harvest oats, way,
far north in Canada, where they
have really short summers and
very cold, wet winter falls,
they started the EPA approved in
1996, I believe it was to start
allowing the use of Roundup or
glyphosate as a desiccant. Now
the problem with that is that
depending on where you are,
there's a lot of different rules
about how many days have to go
by etc. But for those of us who
are worried about our health,
and the gut microbiome and all
of these other things, that
leaves a residue of that
compound on the food that is
actually detectable, you can
find it in our food. And there
have been there's a lot of
action in the news this year, in
particular, about glyphosate
residues on Cheerios and other
commonly consumed oats. Now
Colleen has a really interesting
play in that her products, like
she mentioned, have oats as the
background, the backbone for
product development. So Colin,
if you could tell us a little
bit about oats and why you use
the oats that you use and why
they're special.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah, yeah,
it's a big deal. diets, right,
Colleen Kavanagh: Yeah, and
that's a good segue with the
conversation of glyphosate
because when we talk about it
being used as a desiccant, those
fields are you can't normally if
you're just using Mother Nature
control when you harvest, right,
but if the farmers know that a
big of wet weather is coming,
and those oats are still green,
and they need to harvest and the
last thing they want is water
when they harvest right, it can
lead to all kinds of problems.
So they want to dry out that
plant, they want to basically
kill it, so that they can
harvest faster. And so that's
why they would do a pre harvest
desiccant. And then the problem
and then with our cinnamon, they
actually were spraying it on the
bark after they took it off the
tree. And that would dry it out
faster. So it's kind of used in
different ways, but also as a
desiccant. And one of the
reasons why initially I wasn't
using oats because there were
issues with oats. So celiacs
were worried that it wasn't they
weren't really gluten free
because of cross contact. And
oats themselves are gluten free,
but that they're often grown in
fields where there's wheat
popping up and so there's some
cross contact there. And then
also this glyphosate issue. And
we have met a woman at a
conference. And there's a good
reason to go to like minded
values aligned conferences,
right. And she and I were
talking at the very end, which
we every teaspoon they eat needs
to be higher in nutrition than typical.
just goes to the show, you'd
never close up your booth early.
She was starving. I had never
she was starving. I had snacks,
we were chatting when she said
well, why don't you do any oats
with your, your with ZICO? It's
like, oh, well, you know, there
are questions about there being
gluten free and there's
glyphosate and there's not
enough, you know, and she went
through every single one. She's
like my family grows out in
Montana, I call it the Greater
Montana region, but it's Montana
and the surrounding states. And,
you know, we actually have our
farmers signed contracts that
not only do they not use
glyphosate, of course on their
organic, which is what we would
be buying oats, but also on the
surrounding fields, so there's
no chance of drift and they made
the farmers sign contracts that
they wouldn't use paraquat which
is another very dangerous
chemical actually so dangerous
that if you drink a thimble full
of it, you will die. So it's
much more toxic than Yeah, it's
much more toxic than glyphosate
is. And then they also were
using a method called purity
protocol, gluten free oats which
is where you are may you have
structures in place from you
know, seed all the way through
harvest and processing. Trying
to be gluten free every step of
the way. And these oats actually
grow shorter than invading, you
know, species like different
wheats and Speltz and things
like that. So that if a farmer
sees the tall shoots coming up,
they can actually go through and
just chop those off before they
even sprout a seed. So you
really can control for that. And
it opens up oats to this whole
group of celiacs and highly
sensitive gluten intolerant
people who couldn't have them
before. And the really beautiful
thing about these particular is
that we use their holistic oats
that have been bred to be higher
in protein, by the farmer that
we work with over over the years
naturally, broccoli, it's not a
GMO issue at all. It's just
naturally bread. And they
actually have about double the
digestible protein of typical
oats and 20 to 40%. More iron
and fiber, which is
unbelievable. Big deal.
Colleen Kavanagh: Yeah, and it's
a win win. And what's really
fun, and I love these small, the
small world stories. When I
first started my journey as an
activist, one of our very first
products was a Montana oat
pancake mix made from the flour
from these exact same oats. They
come from Gary Iverson, who is
one of our partners in the
Montana project. So it's like
really funny when you look at
how the universe comes together
and brings people together, even
when there's quite a few years
that span the middle of it. And
it's just meant to be so fast
forward a few years, Collins
doing all this incredible
pioneering work. And I think it
was a two or three year period,
consistently, people would say,
you don't know, Colleen
Kavanaugh, it's ego foods. I
can't believe you guys are not
friends. I can't believe you
don't know each other. It was
like, yes. So we have a friend
named Tim Richards, who founded
a company called philosopher
foods. And he's doing incredible
stuff now. Yeah, great stuff
with almonds, and regenerative
almonds and organic almonds. And
he finally said, Oh, my gosh,
Colleen is in the room here,
you're not allowed to leave I am
we're gonna go find her, but her
together, and we're going to get
you to enter duck introduced and
the rest is history. And that
was when we decided we had, you
know, a such aligned, you know,
mission in the world to try to,
again, realign the goals of our
food system and our agricultural
system to support human health.
And, you know, take care of the
planet while we're at it. So
that gave birth to a big huge
project that we're working on
now. And calling and I'll have
you talk a little bit about how
that came together. And what
precipitated those early
conversations. When you and I
were looking at our businesses,
looking at our teams, looking at
our goals and thinking, you
know, sometimes it's better just
to work smart than to just work
hard, and combine and, and do
big things together.
I would say that neither of us
could have worked harder. But we
were already working on each
other. So we collaborate, right?
We had to collaborate, we had to
build a team, we had to bring in
more people, more brands, and
more money. And we were able to
do that, which is amazing. So we
had this wonderful combination
of events happen where our
farmer that we made farmer we
work with wanted to retire, and
in his his partners. And so he
invited us in and said, hey, you
know, we have this processing
facility that you've been using?
What do you want to do? Jamie
bring us a business plan. And
that was right around the time
when USDA was starting to put
out some grants that were
available, really, specifically
around organic grains, but and
legumes and a couple of other
things. I think it was dairy and
maybe some meats, and to clear
up the bottleneck that exists in
the organic industry where we
have farmers who are growing
organic grains, and we have
consumers who want it, but we
couldn't get them processed
because it was no there's no
regional processing anymore.
Over time. Processors had either
bought up and most often closed
the smaller processors or maybe
it was a farmer who had a little
processing on his land, and he's
no longer doing that anymore.
But they had close hundreds and
hundreds of these. I mean, 1000s
had close yeah. 20,000 down to a
couple 100. So yeah,
Joni Kindwall-Moore: it's like
an extinction when it's like a
business or economic extinction
period. And when you think about
the impacts on our food systems
and resiliency and food systems,
it's a big deal. It's something
that people don't really give
thought to like lots of the
things we're talking about
today. But um, it's also one of
those startling moments when you
realize here in the US, you
know, you go to the grocery
store, you go to Costco, you go
to Fred Meijer, and you think,
oh, there's so much organic food
available on the market, but
it's still only represents like
under 1.8% of our domestic
farmland. It's been fun And, and
so clearly, a lot of this has
been imported from overseas. And
we want to rebuild our domestic
infrastructure in our domestic
agricultural sector that is
dedicated to organic farming.
Right,
Colleen Kavanagh: right, we've
got farmers going under every
week in the US. And yet, we have
these, what we call the value
added crops that are being grown
overseas, and we're importing
them, that's crazy, the farmers
will get a bump from growing
things that are organic. Of
course, if they're regenerative
and organic, that's even better.
At if there's extra protein, we
will pay them more. If it's
gluten free, they get paid more.
But if they're just growing a
commodity out there, pricing is
very, very low. So yeah, there
were so many reasons for USDA to
want to promote this. So
shortening that story. That was
right after I had met you. And
these grants were available in
like, five form that within six
weeks. And then we just quickly
pulled together an amazing group
of people, because both of us
have been doing this for quite a
while now. And so we really knew
that people who had bubbled to
the top do were the best
marketers who were the best
project managers who you know,
all those people. And I love
that we have a CRO who used to
be with Kraft Foods, and we have
a project manager, he used to be
with DuPont, like really wanting
to affect the food system in a
really positive way to come to
us with an amazing experience.
And everyone is amazingly
committed. So the grant that we
received, will feed into a new
business model that we've put
together that we call
collaborative, integrated value
chain. And it really comes from
solving the problem where in
food and farming, everything
happens to use word in silos,
right? The farmer grows, but he
grows and the process or
processes, but the process, and
the manufacturer then will or
the brand will make what they
want to make. And then they hope
that there's a processor, and
they hope that there's farmer,
and they hope they can get it
from the US. But no one's
talking to each other. And then
we've got consumers, right, you
got like four silos, and then
the consumers have to pay way
too much. Right? Yeah,
especially for that value added
piece. So the model that you and
I put together, which we call
civic really takes all of those
problems and weaves together the
resources to form a solution for
everybody that saves money, and
brings money to farmers, lowers
processing costs and packaging
cost per values, allowing brands
to then weigh and get it to
consumers at a lower price and
have a higher sales rate on
shelf in stores. Because now for
example, with our our double
protein oath product, which is
sort of our signature product,
that's $80 at the store right
now, we could sell that for
under seven, if we're able to
under the Civic model that we're
doing. Yeah, it's a huge
difference.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Well, and
that's a big deal. Because I
mean, most people, when you talk
to them about what the barriers
are to accessing healthier food
cost is like, usually the number
one thing. I mean, there's
always people who are like, I
just don't like healthy food.
But for everybody else. Cost is
like a big barrier. And what we
don't often think about is that
the premium cost on healthier
foods is often reflection, a
reflection of inefficiencies in
the value chain, not necessarily
even a premium at the field. And
so for me as a consumer, if I'm
going to pay extra for an item
of food, and I want that to be
driving the quality of what that
dude is not just paying for
inefficiencies, because it was
small scale processing, or small
scale, you know. And so for
Colleen and I were like how do
we solve those problems of
scalability, because we know any
economic model, scalability and
volumes drive a lot of the
equations. And so when you start
looking at working together, you
start to solve a lot of those
issues, because now you you have
some competitive purchasing as a
group. And that allows our
customers to eventually acquire
a more affordable product that
still has the promise of that
high quality and make sure
premiums go back to the farmers
and reward them for doing best
practices.
Colleen Kavanagh: Yes, and we've
we've built in a financial
system for paying farmers that
does reward them for better
practices. So I think this is
what I'm most excited about. And
you're most excited about model
if we have a new pricing system
built on what they were already
doing in Montana, so we didn't
invent this, we're just taking
it to the next level, where if
they're growing, I'll use the
oats for example. These oats are
organic oats. So what let's
start with just playing
wholeness out, so that's a
specialty variety. It's not a
commodity that is harmless.
That's eight cents a pound. If
you grow them so that they're
gluten free purity protocol
gluten free will give you an
extra 12 cents to 20 cents a
pound. If You can also grow them
organically certified organic,
you get 32 cents a pound. And
then for I'm sorry, 38. And then
for every percent of protein
higher than I think 19, we pay
you an extra penny a pound. So
we can then replicate this for
millet and other gluten free
grains that farmers want to grow
as rotation crops so that they
can grow more regeneratively.
And we can explain to consumers
because you and I have the
brands, and we're going to bring
in other values aligned brands
to help us explain this as well.
Like, we have two offerings for
you, we have organic, and we can
show you all of the metrics. And
we should talk about that, too,
Joni
Joni Kindwall-Moore: will have
to do a whole session on that.
Colleen Kavanagh: But we we can
explain to them through this
system that we've put together a
purity verification and visuals
in a very easy to understand
format, where consumers can just
scan the QR code on the package
and see Oh, I see this either is
certified organic, and I can see
that it's clean. And I can see
that heavy metals are low, which
of course isn't part of organic
certification, but it's
something people really want, or
they're getting, okay, this is
what what we're coining a clean
conventional. What does that
mean? Well, when you scan that
QR code, you can see what that
means, you can see that there's
still no glyphosate, you can see
that the heavy metals are
better, you know, but it doesn't
have that certification. So it
gives us the ability to
differentiate these crops to the
consumer, so that we can reward
the farmer when they get better,
instead of having the 01 game
of, you know, organic or
conventional. And that's it.
Yeah.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah. Which
is so important when it comes to
like food, equity and access.
And, you know, like, you look at
large scale contracts, like
school lunches, like what you
worked on in your earlier
career, or institutional, those
kind of places where they, they
want organic, they want
something healthier, they don't
want to knowingly be giving
chemicals to kids. But sometimes
the price points for a certified
organic product don't
necessarily meet the mark or
something. And then sometimes we
have farmers that for whatever
reason, need to opt out of the
organic certification program
for a while, like they maybe
need to do. There's a variety of
reasons why this happens from
time to time, but they're still
not using the chemicals that are
going to leave residues on the
food, etc, etc, we don't want
them to just go all the way back
to the bottom of the pile
commodity, where they're totally
selling into a non
differentiated market, because
often they're doing something
that is creating a higher
quality product, whether that's
free from things you don't want
to be exposed to or full of
certain nutritional compounds,
we want to make sure that we're
meeting that market and matching
it to people who need high
volume, lower cost commodities,
that are not just not at ease.
Colleen Kavanagh: Yet, there's a
lot of chatter in certain
sectors of our world where
people are talking about organic
doesn't mean anything, none of
these servers certifications
mean anything, because they'll
see a report that'll come out
from a well meaning nonprofit.
And they will publish these
results. And they'll say, you
know, we publish waste that
studied 20 different types of
oats. And then a third of those
were organic, and two of those,
they detected a small amount of
glyphosate. And for some people,
that's enough to just make
blanket statements, while all
organic food has glyphosate and
our organic food. And I think
it's really important for us to,
as we're working, also working
to improve organic, to recognize
that it is actually by and
large, much cleaner than
conventional, you know, when
you're looking at this in our
data, when you when you're
looking at glyphosate, the
typical conventional oat has in
the US over the past three years
since has 630 parts per billion
of glyphosate in it. And for
organic, it would be what we
call no measurable amount. So
that's under 10 parts per
million. So it's a it's
Joni Kindwall-Moore: a big deal.
Yeah, and it's such a big deal
that they're you know, that's
what this class action suit
against Cheerios is all about,
that the they actually tested
the glyphosate residue, and it
was high enough, where it should
technically be listed as an
ingredient on the declared
ingredients level, because the
glyphosate would be at a higher
amount than like added, like B
12, for example, or B, you know,
whatever. They're adding the the
the amendments to the oat flour.
And that is really frightening
when you think about it, um,
especially considering kids eat
Cheerios all day long. So I
think there's never been a more
important time to really re
embrace what organic stands for
and make sure we're realigning
it with the values that when you
buy something that is organic
you you are buying it because
you don't want exposure to those
chemicals and you don't want to
be supporting and paying for
them to be sprayed into our
environment. Those are the two
number one motivators and I
think sometimes people just
forget that.
Colleen Kavanagh: And the
transparency is really
important. It was incredible to
me that we don't have in the US
right to know if there's toxic
residue on our food before we
eat it? Yeah, I mean, you just
pause there, right like that,
that is amazing if you were to
call a company and ask them if
you could see their heavy metal
test for the baby food that you
buy, yeah, even if they have it,
they don't have to give it to
you. Now, heavy metals that's
starting to change with a new
California law. But anything
else, you do not have a right to
know that information, nor do
you really know how to interpret
it. And when we get into more
details, and showing people
visuals of what we're doing on
how to explain things like heavy
metals to people, we have
visuals now that people can use
not just for when they scan our
products, they can go across
their kitchen, and look at all
the different products that they
have, and actually take our
visuals and see where they fall
on the scale, which is so
Joni Kindwall-Moore: cool. And
very novel, very, very novel. So
I mean, this is just there's so
many layers of impact that
happen with Zika foods and with
civic. And that's what makes it
so fun. But it's also one of the
reasons we're going to break up
our segments about these
projects into a whole series
that's going to go throughout
the podcast season. And we'll
also be speaking in little just
updates like when we have really
fun, good news, because I'll be
doing some other regenerative by
design interviews with some
other leaders and movers and
shakers in the ag and food
space. We can even give little
updates there. So that way
people just know what's going
on. Because this is really
something that is truly
transformational to the food
system. And we're proving that
other models really can lead to
better results, both
economically and for health,
human health and health of the
planet. So I'm really excited
that we got to take this initial
plunge into the world of calling
Kavanaugh, who is a an
incredibly impressive
individual, even on a bad day.
Like literally, I'm always like,
wow, it is absolutely truly
impressive. So thank you for the
work that you do. It's it's
absolutely stunning. And it's
going to be so much fun to
follow this and actually have a
podcast that we regularly update
people that want to know what
we're working on. And they can
join us. So
Colleen Kavanagh: yes, I agree.
I mean, it's it's so funny, just
describing the business model.
And what we've already done is
going to take us several
podcasts. And we can do I go to
the factory and show like we
just installed this piece of
equipment. And this is what
we're gonna meet this farmer and
you know that we could actually
do it, but it is flex system
that we built for the Civic
model. But when you understand
it, it makes so much sense.
Yeah,
Joni Kindwall-Moore: and it's
kind of it's kind of simple,
when it really comes down to it,
it's just rethinking the
efficiencies of the system. So
that we make sure that we
prioritize the things that we
value, which is quality, and
minimizing exposure to toxic
compounds. So and treating
Colleen Kavanagh: the simple
thing milling and CO packing as
almost like a utility, where
it's not a profit center, that
was really the linchpin of what
we're doing. And we could not do
that without the USDA money. And
we couldn't do it without each
other. Like it really is a
collaboration to do that is a
game changer. And it will help
smaller values aligned brands
compete with big companies that
do have their own processing
facilities and milling
facilities. And they don't treat
them as profit centers.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Right,
exactly. And so I'm so glad you
brought that up, Colleen, we
kicked off season one of
regenerative by design with a
dear friend Don Sherman, of
police heritage farms. And he
talked again, he said, We need
to treat our processing
infrastructure more like utility
or community center. And and so
I think this is really cool,
because it's it's a theme here.
But it's something that is so
important because access to food
is essential. I mean, it is a
national security issue. We're
going to talk about food
security as national security.
In this season, we're going to
have some really exciting guests
joining us, literally from like
military and from health to talk
about why we all need to come
together to really take back our
food system and make sure that
it's resilient and in the hands
of the people who who steward it
and who operate it right here in
our own backyards. So, so many
more things coming, you guys and
Colleen Kavanagh: I'm gonna do a
little housekeeping, I need to
say blurb. So this grant comes
to us from USDA AMS Agricultural
Marketing Services. It's called
organic market development
grant. And we are doing work
underneath that grant, but this
podcast does not represent USDA
views. You got right. That's
Joni Kindwall-Moore: right. And
you'll be you'll be hearing that
more and I just want to say
thank you to the USDA for
hearing us and hearing so many
of the partners that received
these grants. I have to say I
have the great pleasure of
working with a number of
entrepreneurs in our area that
have received either these
grants from MDG or other grants
that have recently come out
through USDA initiatives to help
strengthen our domestic food and
agricultural system. So thank
you, USDA. Thank you, Colleen.
And I'm so happy to be back in
the studio more good things to
come later.
Ed Bejarana: Funding for
Regenerative by design podcast
was made possible by a grant
cooperative agreement from the
US Department of Agriculture
Agricultural Marketing Service,
its contents are solely the
responsibility of the authors
and do not necessarily represent
the official views of the USDA.
Joni Kindwall-Moore: Thank you
for joining me on the
regenerative by design podcast.
Please take a moment to review
our channel on your favorite
podcasting service. And share
this session with your friends
and colleagues via LinkedIn,
Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or
wherever you connect with your
community.