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The Politics Chicks is a progressive politics podcast and politics news show hosted by Christy Branham and Monica Healy.
Every week, we sit down with candidates, elected officials, journalists, historians, policy experts, advocates, and everyday Americans shaping the future of our democracy. We go beyond the headlines with thoughtful interviews, fact-based analysis, and candid conversations about the issues that affect our lives—from elections and public policy to healthcare, education, civil rights, and the economy.
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Joe: Over $9 billion is what Big Pharma has spent on.
Monica: You said billion with a B, right?
Joe: With a B. Oh, my good God. Over $9 billion over last year. That's what they spent just last year. And the average American sees as many as like nine pharmaceutical ads per day. Yes. Or what that equates to is 16 hours a year you watch pharmaceutical ads. That's more than you spend in your doctor's office.
Christy: Well, welcome to the Politics Chicks podcast. I'm Christy Branham.
Monica: And I'm Monica Healy.
Christy: Lower drug prices are an easy promise to make. The test comes when someone picks up a prescription. What would it take to make that bill smaller?
Monica: The Pharmaceutical Reform Alliance says its national polling shows broad support across party lines for changing how prescription drugs are priced. With the midterms approaching, can that agreement produce action?
Christy: Joining us today is Joe Cunningham, who represented South Carolina in Congress and now serves as a spokesperson for the Alliance. We'll discuss its proposals, who would benefit, and how to know whether patients are actually saving money.
Monica: Joe, welcome to the Politics Chicks.
Joe: Hey, thanks for having me.
Christy: We're so glad you're here today. We had a little chit-chat beforehand to get to know each other, and we're excited to do this interview because we know you have a lot to say about this. And Joe, when you represented South Carolina, what conversation with a constituent made the cost of prescription drugs feel personal to you?
Joe: You meet people everywhere you go, and everyone's telling you a personal story about the cost of it and what they do as a result. And the most shocking thing, and it shouldn't be surprising, is that people just skip their doses or they cut their pills in half. In order to make it, they have to make decisions between filling their prescription or filling their gas tank or paying their rent. And even more so now, since this affordability crisis is like front and center, this is like a cornerstone of that. Because just like gas, where you have to fill up every so often, or just like rent, where you pay once a month, this is something that you fill up once a month. And so it's a constant reminder as to the squeeze that's being put on ordinary Americans.
Monica: Well, and contrary to what our president says with his questionable math about prescription drug costs going down 500%, we all know that that's not really the case. So we appreciate that this issue is actually being addressed. So now let's talk about you a little bit, because you've worked as an ocean engineer, a lawyer, and a congressman. And the lawyer and the congress man, I think everybody knew about. But tell us about the ocean engineer before you lead us to how you decided to take on this role with Pharmaceutical Reform Alliance.
Joe: Yeah, so I went to the College Charleston for two years, and I had a great time. And after two years, I was looking for something to study that could earn me a living. My friends are telling me I own business.
Monica: Okay, I got to pause about that. I had a great time. We'll just leave that unsaid there. Yeah.
Joe: Well, look, the College of Knowledge, the College of Charleston, it's a liberal arts school. And my friends who are coming out with business degrees were going in the restaurant industry and waiting tables or bartending. And so I had a brother of mine who had a maritime license. He's impressed upon me, like, if you're investing this much time and money into college, you need to come out with a certificate or a license or something. And so I was decent at math. And so I thought, okay, I can do engineering. And the only form of engineering that really suited me was ocean. I want to be on the water. And so there's only, at the time, I think a dozen schools in the country that offer the program of ocean engineering. Oh, cool. It's a program that combines, you know, structural analysis with, you know, corrosion and wave mechanics and all of those natural forces into a degree that is sometimes applied to people who are designing or working on oil rigs or beach renourishment projects. Or in my case, I worked in the marine environmental consulting field designing boat slips and marinas in a way that, you know, would minimize environmental impacts. And so, you know, for five years, it was a great career until the economy crashed, you know, for this sector is a little bit after 2008. And so I was living down Naples, Florida at the time, working Heaven's Waiting Room, if you're familiar with Naples. And I was, you know, in my 20s, I was extraordinarily young for that town. So it just, after being laid off during that time, it gave me the opportunity to pursue other areas of work. And law had always been in the back of my mind because I wanted to work more with people than with steel or concrete. So that just provided me a natural transition. And you know, no, no, it was
Christy: perfect. It was perfect. And I was just about to say Monica's Monica is secretly thinking this is Christie's gem because I love all that stuff like mechanics, engineering, like physics. That's all my that's all my thing. So I'm sitting there going, oh, I need to look that up. That's really cool.
Monica: And I'm married to an engineer and I want to hear about the people at work. As soon as he gets into, you know, the nitty gritty, my eyes glaze over.
Joe: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christy: So let's let's talk about what you feel you can accomplish now as a part of this alliance that you couldn't do when you were a member of Congress.
Joe: Yeah, you know, when you when you get out, people take a lot, you know, nowadays and people are getting out of Congress or basically too old to go back to work. Right. I mean, we've seen the aging leaders and the age of members of Congress, but we'll sidestep that. And, you know, after leaving Congress, I went back to practice in law and I think as a former member, you get approached on a whole slew of different things to either talk about or work on and not attend things, you know, don't hold my interest or passion. And so but when this this came up, working as a spokesperson for Pharmaceutical Reform Alliance, it's like illustrating to people the greed with big pharma and how it's costing Americans money. I mean, it just seemed like it was stuff that I was already doing in Congress and it just seemed like a natural fit. So it was it was an easy yes, shall we say.
Monica: Well, this is a bipartisan issue and there is support across the aisle. And in fact, one of your co-leaders is a Republican.
Joe: J.D. Hayworth, he served before me. He's a huge personality and a great guy. And it's you know, it's interesting. I've made a lot of friends across the aisle. People are still stay in touch with. But it's illustrative. Just there is a lot of common ground that can be tilled on the left and the right if he'll just talk about it. And this has been a very seamless partnership with J.D. and I go on. You think we know each other for 20 years. And because, you know, this is just this is an experience that we all go through. We've all gone through, you know, looking and you know, it's like playing the roulette when you go in, you ring up a new prescription. You have no idea what's going to cost.
Monica: Right. Yeah.
Joe: I mean, it could be it could be more expensive than the rent or the mortgage payment. And so when you when you ring it up, they're not asking you at the pharmacy, are you Democrat or Republican and charging something different? So I say that, say we all go through it. And J.D. and I go through it, have gone through it. So it doesn't make it partisan, just makes it more personal.
Christy: I think that's proof positive that Republicans and Democrats can can get along and have meaningful conversations if if they're willing to give up the tribalism and work for common cause.
Joe: A thousand percent, Christy. And especially with this, I call it the recent populism, you know, it's interesting. And there's a bill that and we 'll get into a bit later that would codify most favorite nation, which brings American drug prices in line with other developed nations. And that bill was sponsored, you know, by Ro Khanna on the far left. And when she was in Congress, Marjorie Taylor Greene was a sponsor. It's a bipartisan bill. Yeah. And so, you know, say politics makes strange bedfellows, but this is one of those issues where you hear people on both sides of the spectrum talk about it and where you're like, you find like, OK, this isn't a one sided bill. This is something that's actually bringing a host of personalities together, you know.
Monica: Well, that that's one of the things that does unite us. And Christy and I have talked to so many candidates. And when we ask them what they are hearing from their voters, it is about the things that unite us rather than divide us. Those so-called kitchen table issues, you know, affordable health care and good schools for their kids. And the pharmacy prices is a big one, too.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Joe: Just because it doesn't doesn't discriminate.
Christy: Yeah. And before we came on, you told us about a person that you spoke to who was no longer filling their prescription that they needed because they couldn't afford it.
Joe: Yeah. I mean, the guy I cut my hair, this is like two weeks ago that we were talking about it. And he has osteoporosis. And he's telling me how much the prescription was. It's like thirty two hundred dollars for a month.
Christy: Yikes.
Joe: And I asked, I was like, God, what I mean, I think about like that line item in a bill. I said, what do you do? And he's like, I just don't get it. And I think it's something he said he filled a couple of times. We had some coupons rebates, but he just didn't get any more. I was like, so how are you doing? He's like, I guess. OK, but I haven't checked my bone density in a long time. I mean, it's probably just one one fall away from shattering something. But it's a broken hip waiting
Christy: to happen.
Joe: And, you know, I think we get as Americans, we get like the frog in blowing water. We get accustomed to like this is how it is. This is how it's supposed to be. And when you go to other countries or you talk to people from other developed nations, it does not have to be this way. Like our system in America is just, you know, abysmal. And the prescription drug price model in this industry, it's such a complex problem. But this is one of these pieces of it that is easily digestible, no pun intended, but people can understand. They can wrap their, you know, because they pick up their bottle, they pay for it, they go home. There's no other, you know, it's just them, you know, the pharmacy and that's it. There's no other PBMs or providers or specialists in that, you know, just something people can understand. And that's what we're trying to make it simple. And that's that's what I've learned in politics is you can keep it simple. Chances are you have more success.
Monica: Well, let's delve into that a little bit because you already alluded to the most favored nation pricing. And like put that into plain English. Like whose price do we match and who qualifies for that?
Unattributed: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. So the whole idea behind most favored nation and the pricing policy, it benchmarks U.S. prices against the prices that manufacturers have agreed to in other countries like Germany and Japan and Canada. And so under this framework, the U.S. prices would be tied to the lowest price available in what's called Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the OECD. It just rolls off the tongue. Any of those OECD countries with a GDP per capita of at least 60 percent of the U.S. And so by tying that, it helps ensure that Americans aren't paying more than patients in other comparable countries. And so with codified in the law, and I mentioned this earlier about the bill that Ro Khanna, my friend from California, is introduced as co-sponsoring. If that was codified, that policy would apply to all Americans, not just those on Medicare or Medicaid, but the 80 percent of the country in the private sector.
Christy: Well, and you're you've you've actually done polling, the organization, I should say, has done polling and it's got support. There's like an 87 percent report of support for international price matching, 81 percent for patent reform and 88 percent for matching drug ad spending rebates. So you made the choice to become a part of this organization for a reason. So what stands out to you about the agreement across party lines? Because like you said, this is a bipartisan issue.
Joe: Yeah, I mean, this is one of those kitchen table issues that is a slam dunk. If I'm running for office or I 'm running for reelection and this poll comes across my desk and shows something, it has just such glaring high positives. That's a campaign issue that I 'm going to include in my stump speeches. Something I'm going to run on, particularly if, you know, your opponent is, you know, either taking a lot of money from pharmaceutical or has been reluctant to attack them or not sponsored some of these bills that will directly help Americans. Like the Global Fairness and Drug Pricing Act. And a lot of people. I know I'm trying to stay focused here, but I'm a sidestep. Again, a lot of people listen to podcasts like this or listen to radio shows or at home thing. OK, that's great. But what can I do? And the truth is, if you're sitting there, you're listening and you're wondering, OK, I wonder if my member of Congress is co-sponsoring this bill on the most favored nation. You pick up the phone, you can email them, ask them if they're co-sponsoring or supporting the Global Fairness and Drug Pricing Act. I can tell you, as a former member, when I flew up to D.C., I get into the office. One of the first things I did meeting my staff, I had a read out of all the emails, all the phone calls that came from within the district. And this kind of helped me keep my finger on the pulse as to what's important to them. And so if even people feel like, well, I don't know if the member actually listens to those phone calls or emails, I can tell you that those things trickle up. And they make a difference because it's telling them what the attitude and sentiment is of the constituents. So that's something that everyone can do. Everyone listening can do.
Christy: I'm going to throw a plug in here for the Digital Democracy Project. We had Ramon Perez on a couple of months ago. It was a great interview, but it's an online platform. And now they're basically it allows you to vote online for legislation so that it tells legislators what their constituents want, but also holds them accountable. And they now have every federal bill that is up for consideration on their site. They use the Votes app, which is the same app that is used for members of the military to be able to vote when they're deployed abroad. And, you know, calling the office using the five calls app, but also jumping on Digital Democracy Project and seeing who's authored the bill. They also give you a summary of the bill because a lot of times those bills are 20 pages of whatever and you just need the nitty gritty and they provide you the nitty gritty too. So I can't say enough good things.
Monica: We do need to point out that that's not deployed all across the country. It is in place in Florida and there's a pilot, I believe, for five other states, but it's not available everywhere. So as Joe mentioned, I call your lawmakers and we we keep saying that. And I'm guessing that the people that listen to podcasts like this are already doing that. Yeah. You should be listening. Tell all your friends to do that, too.
Christy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's clear. Do you feel that this is evidence that this is vote changing for people? Because I think we're at a very we're at a turning point opportunity for turning points in our country. And, you know, it's sad that, you know, all the other negative things about this president did not get him elected. But it's the price of gas that is really getting people involved in things. This could be another thing that would might entice them to change their vote as well. Don't you think it completely
Joe: could? I mean, it all adds up. Right. You know, not only have incomes not kept up with inflation and cost of living, but all these variable costs and prescription drugs and health care is one of them. It's a big one. And I think with people seeing their insurance rates rise and you're seeing the biggest spike in insurance rates after, you know, here recently. So I think all these things together are a constant reminder that the system is not working for people and particularly just squeezing the middle class. And I think people are going to vote with their their check books, with their wallets. But this is this is definitely one. And like I said, it's very personal to almost everyone. If if it's not you being directly impacted by expensive medication, the chances are high that it's a parent or it's a brother or a cousin or a neighbor who is just. Bankrupted by the cost of prescription drugs.
Monica: And we can't we can't overlook the inextricable link between pharmaceutical costs and health insurance. And both of them are just astronomical. And we have health care outcomes in this country that are lower than they should be based on the wealth of this country because of those high costs. People forego medical care. They forego taking their their prescribed medications because they're just cost prohibitive. So you take somebody that has insurance and somebody that's paying cash. How does your proposal change what each of them is actually going to pay at the pharmacy?
Joe: Well, you know, each person's situation or prescription or health insurance or lack there of is is unique and different. I can't you know, there's no one size fits all. But I can say the confidence that if this bill were codified, the cost for. All Americans in their prescription drugs could come down. I mean, this is a nice. It's not from what the president has proposed regarding Medicare and Medicaid. The. The. Legislation, the most of the global fairness and drug pricing act applies to 100 percent of people. So, you know, this is a simple fix, I think, can reap just enormous benefits for for everyone. People are paying cash. People are going through their insurance. Either way, costs are going to come down.
Christy: Yeah. And as someone who has chronic disorders and I take several medications a month, Monica, how many times in the past couple of months have I said to you the pharmacy is out of my meds?
Monica: Yeah. And and I just had a physical last week and my doctor asked me how many times did you have have trouble getting your prescription refilled because of the shortages?
Christy: Yeah. So how would you prevent companies from limiting access to a drug or raising prices everywhere? And weaken the benchmark for.
Joe: I mean, that's that's that's always a concern. You know, the manipulation that can happen overseas, you know, them them raising overseas cost. You know, the the truth is the devil's kind of going to be in the details for the codification. And there there's all these things, amendments that can be put in that could influence, you know, outside outside, you know, this outside pricing. But it all kind of depends on the final legislation, what it looks like. But I just just don't see the manipulation overseas. I don't see those countries allowing it in such an egregious manner where it washes away all the savings that Americans could enjoy. You know, these countries overseas, you know, even Canada. But Japan, Germany, a lot of these developed nations have obviously done something right in their negotiations. If they're enjoying, you know, the benefit of what these drugs should cost. And Americans are bearing the burden for our high cost and probably subsidizing theirs in some way. So I don't think that by codifying those countries who have already been successful in negotiating with these pharmaceutical companies are going to be less successful in the future.
Monica: So we're sitting here talking about all these prescription drugs and being a musical person. I'm thinking about all of the ads that I see constantly running on TV and all of those jingles.
Christy: All I see is pharmaceutical ads.
Monica: Yeah, and all those jingles are running through my head. And I'm thinking about how much they're spending on it because, you know, their pockets are super deep. And your team's pitch describes a proposal to match drug makers ' consumer advertising spending with drug rebates. Who receives that money and how does that work?
Joe: Well, I mean, you mentioned money spent on ads. Let's just kind of start with that. Over $9 billion is what Big Pharma has spent on.
Monica: You said billion with a B, right?
Joe: With a B. Over $9 billion. Over last year. That's what they spent just last year. And the average American sees as many as like nine pharmaceutical ads per day. What that equates to is 16 hours a year you watch pharmaceutical ads. That's more than you spend in your doctor's office.
Monica: Right.
Joe: But, you know, the direct-to-consumer drug ads, they market higher costs and often lower value drugs to Americans. And there's one analysis that revealed that more than two-thirds of drugs commonly featured in these television ads were deemed to have lower therapeutic value. So, you know, there is that, you know, to your question, I want to make it clear that Pharmaceutical Reform Alliance hasn't proposed the legislation. But, you know, we have taken voters' temperature on the proposed reforms. And what our most recent bipartisan poll found is that Americans wholeheartedly support restrictions on their ability to advertise directly to consumers, especially when they're often advertising, you know, less effective drugs that are on the market. So, for example, you know, our poll asked voters, see if I got the wording here, asked them if they would support legislation that requires that for every dollar Pharmaceuticals spend on drug advertising, they must agree to spend an equal amount on drug rebates. And 89% of all voters across party lines said yes on that.
Christy: Well, it makes sense.
Joe: Completely. And I think, you know, one of the biggest – it's a nice way of saying this. Let's say charades.
Christy: Oh, you don't need to be nice. This is a podcast. You're not on broadcast television. Yeah.
Joe: One of the biggest misconceptions, I think, that Big Pharma pushes is that we need to, you know, advertise, and we need to charge these higher prices for the R&D, for the research and development that goes into producing, so we can make, you know, better and more life-saving drugs. When the reality is, you know, they spend a lot more money on advertising than they do on R&D. They spend a lot more money on stock buybacks and bonuses and things like that. So when you follow the money and you look at that, it tells a quite different story than – this isn't just all for the being done so that new drugs can be developed and more lives can be saved. The numbers tell a quite different story.
Christy: Yeah. I can remember when my kids were young, I would, you know, in the later part of the day, I would have the television on, and I would see ads for, like, Hamburger Helper and things like that. I cannot tell you the last time that I saw an ad for just something mundane. It is drug ad after drug ad after drug ad. It's – clearly it's working for them because they would not be investing the money in it if it weren't.
Joe: And it's expensive. I can tell you, you know, having run campaigns, like, the – a typical campaign raises, you know, all their money, and then they dump the vast majority of that into TV, buy TV ads because, you know, it's the most expensive component of your campaign is purchasing TV ads. And so the amount of money that is being dumped into that, it's just less money being offered for rebates or for, you know, for research and development or other things.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Monica: We have a – our lieutenant governor in Minnesota is Peggy Flanagan, and I promise I'm going to bring it back to the point you were talking about. Peggy Flanagan is now running for a Senate seat, and her campaign logo was the many over the money. And I can't help but think about all these pharmaceutical companies, and their logo is the opposite, you know, the money over the many. It's very frustrating.
Christy: And how much these companies donate to political campaigns too. Let's be clear about that.
Joe: Yeah. And, you know, we've – Pharmaceutical Reform Alliance actually just launched a new tool on our website where you can go to each state, and it breaks down to each member of Congress or senator and the money that they've received from Big Pharma. It's – yeah, I found myself on there for longer than I should have been, just state-to-state looking. And I know that, you know, with AI, you're seeing a lot of these interactive tools that help illustrate that. But it's very, very, very transparent as to where that money is going now.
Christy: And to be clear, it's both Republicans and Democrats who are taking this money. It's not simply Republicans. So that is itself a bipartisan issue.
Joe: And, you know, I just want to say, and this is kind of a bit into the weeds, but those are the hard dollars that we're seeing being spent. You know, there's also the soft money. And so you can, you know, as a member or senator, you can vote a certain way on a bill in whatever trade association or group that support that bill or push that bill forward. The next week, they may buy a full-page ad for you in the local paper or maybe put up a TV spot saying, you know, thank you, Congressman or Congress woman X for standing up for whatever, veterans or health care or big oil or, you know, whatever it is that's being spun. And it's a way of assisting these members who are constantly in re-election mode, right?
Christy: Yeah, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.
Joe: Yeah, well, yeah, it's just a, it's a, it's an indirect campaign contribution is what it is. And it happens, again, it happens on both sides of the aisle and it happens constantly.
Christy: And what would stop the rebate that you're talking about from staying with an insurer or a middleman instead of reducing the patient's actual bill? Because that, that's something that I would look at it and want to know the logistics of that beforehand.
Joe: What would stop the, say it again?
Christy: How would it stop the rebate from staying with an insurer or a middleman instead of reducing the patient's bill?
Joe: Yeah, I mean, you know, again, the devil's always in the details. And I think a lot's going to depend on how legislation that's drafted in Congress and what amendments are put in. But, you know, what I can tell you definitively is that in our polling, we found that people want Congress to take some kind of action to rein in Big Pharma. And they're sick and tired of the ads and how much they, you know, they've used, like I said, 16 hours of ads every year. And people are sick of that and they want that to be, they want that to be eliminated. And, you know, rebates are obviously, it's one point of debate. But, look, there's a lot of different ways we can attack this problem.
Monica: My guess is that people who are listening are nodding along with everything that they're hearing, that there's too much money in Big Pharmacy. We need to do something about lowering prescription drug costs. And you are here as PRA spokesperson. So then where is that money? Like, who funds that alliance? And do any of its funders have a financial stake in the policies you're promoting?
Joe: Yeah, I can tell you we all have a financial stake in the policies. You know, I've got a stake in it every single month when I go get my prescription drugs and my growing family. But, I mean, to answer your question, Pharmaceutical Reform Alliance is a 501c4. It's a nonprofit. Limited on what it can do and can't do. A lot of its supporters and sponsors are proudly listed on the website. And so, you know, there's a lot of small organizations that add up to it. But at the end of the day, I think, you know, we're all part of this mission and we're all, you know, somewhat impacted by it. This is an issue that, you know, crosses party lines and that affects all of us.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Christy: And I am on, because I have a disability and I have been found by the Social Security Administration to have a disability. I have been on Medicaid the past couple years. Once you're on Medicaid for two years when you have a disability, you get bumped over to Medicare. And my first day of school in Medicare is November 1st this year. And just the whole application process, keeping the Part B, Part A, Part C, it is so confusing. And, you know, we tout this as, you know, a beneficial program for the elderly. But it's confusing to navigate. And I'm wondering how really effective the Medicare's first 10 negotiated prices that took place earlier this year really were helpful. There's, in 2026, there's an out-of-pocket cap for covered Part D drugs, which is $2,100. And you mentioned that you, you're the person who does your hair, it's got a $3,200 a month prescription. And that means that that person is going to have to pay the first $2,100. What do those things, what are you hoping to change? And what do we still need to do to make this system more navigatable for people who are transitioning on to Medicare?
Joe: I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. Like, it's not just your experience, everyone's experience either with Medicare, Medicaid, even the private insurance. You know, finding out, like, you know, who's in network, who's not in network, what the difference is between. I mean, look, I've got two degrees, and I still sometimes struggle with understanding these bills and invoices and spend an inordinate amount of time on the phones trying to find out, like, who's paying for what. Medicare is no different. You know, all the hoops you've got to jump through. You're just going through a government entity, which sometimes compounds the frustration. But, you know, the price you pay from country to country is significant. I mean, you're looking at, I mentioned the guy who cuts my hair. There's one big pharma company that was charging, I think it's for diabetes drugs. They're charging $6,900 for the medication in the U.S. Wow. But for the same drug, it's $ 900 in Canada and then $200 in France.
Monica: Wow. I just, that's a really stark difference. Right. And makes you think, yeah, no wonder people are going out of the country just for healthcare, for healthcare, for prescription drugs.
Joe: Healthcare tourism, right?
Christy: Yeah.
Monica: Right, exactly.
Christy: Monica, who do we talk to that a member of their family went to Mexico to have surgery recently?
Monica: I know people that have done that, personally.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah, I got friends that go to Colombia, South America for it. Yeah.
Christy: Yeah. Yeah. And this is like not strictly elective. Like, this is not a cosmetic procedure. This is an elective surgery, but it's something that they need to get done. It's not, it's not a one, it's a have to. Yeah.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Monica: So, Joe, you've been inside Congress, but you also see what our Congress is currently. Like, it's basically non-functional. So, while this.
Joe: You noticed, huh?
Christy: Oh, my God.
Monica: I think so.
Christy: Don't even get us started.
Monica: So, this proposed legislation has bipartisan support, but given where we are, the current situation, do you see this passing? And if not, like, why?
Joe: Well, we're in September 22nd, which, and the House is adjourned for the rest of the year. For six weeks. Yeah. So, in this session, no. Even in lame duck, when they came, when they would come back, I don't see something like this going through. I think we're looking ahead towards next session, next January 2027. You know, when Democrats, I think Democrats take back the House.
Christy: Your lips to God's ears.
Joe: You know, the Senate is, if you asked me a while back, I would have said no, but now I'm starting to think they probably will as well. And I can tell you, you know, as one of the members who came in on that wave in 2018, which is, you know, there's some correlation between this midterm and mid term in 2018. I think this midterm has potential to be so much better because of the frustration, you know, frustration with Americans on the economy. I mean, it's just, it's palpable. And so, how the majority handles this and whether or not they take on the cost of healthcare head on, I think it's something they should look. I mean, you got to hold people accountable. I know there's a lot of people that want to come in to hold hearings on Trump. I was, you know, part of Congress in 2018 that had that at the spotlight. But I think in order to build an enduring majority, I think you've got to provide wins for the American people and simple things like this, codifying this. You know, if people see the cost of, you know, imagine if outside the pharmacy, they had the ticker, just like gas stations do for the price of gas. You know, if you had the tracker of what average, whatever X, Y, and Z cost, and it showed you these prices coming down month by month or week by week, I think it'd be a huge win. But look, I don't care, you know, I have my disagreements with this president. I do agree with him on the most favored nation. And I got a group of credit for putting that forward, making that front and center, making it part of his speech. I just wish Congress would take some action on it, whether or not through legislation or through the discharge petition, which has become like in this Congress, I think it's been used more times than this Congress. It's like historic.
Christy: Yeah. It was never used in the past because they couldn't get enough signatures on it. And Ro Khanna and Joe Massey are just hitting it hard.
Joe: I remember seeing, you know, people would line up, members would line up along the walls to get in line to sign these petitions. And they never went anywhere, you know, just like kind of like, you know, wasting their time, staying in line, doing that. But like they've never made any movement. But now with this razor thin majority and the different factions within each party, you know, Epstein was a prime example, like how it garnered people on both sides and galvanized different factions. So I don't care how it happens, you know, but I do, I do think that it has to be beyond a executive order because as we've seen what Trump did to Biden's and what the next president may do to Trump's like the executive orders are only worth the paper they're written on. And they just don't stand the test of time like legislation does.
Christy: You know, Monica and I have had the opportunity in the past few months to interview a bunch of independent candidates running for the Senate. So we've interviewed Brian Bang s, Seth Bodner, Todd Achilles. And they, along with, I can't remember the name of the person running in Colorado. And then in Nebraska, who's the Senate? Yeah.
Monica: Hasborn.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah.
Christy: So they are planning on caucusing as independents, meaning that they are going to create a fulcrum and deny a majority to both parties in the Senate, very possibly. And I think we're at the point where we need that, where neither side has complete control over the agenda anymore because it's going to force negotiation and it's going to force them to have to work with each other and talk these things out. So if you're going to pick one reform that you believe that hopefully a more productive Congress than the one we have now could pass, what do you think that is? And what needs to happen first before they can even move forward on that?
Joe: I mean, I think something like this would be prime for that. Because, like I said, it's got bipartisan support. Obviously, any piece of legislation like this, as so many invested players, big players, like Big Pharma, there's going to be everybody trying to get their amendment hung on to like a Christmas tree. Keep it fairly simple so that it benefits all Americans and doesn't provide handouts or favors to certain companies. I think it's going to be critical. But I agree with you, Christy. This day and age with such a narrow majority, I mean, never has one member of Congress or two been able to wield so much power. But I think we're getting to that point. I mean, you know, the whips and the leaders in each prospective party, they keep track of every member. If somebody member is caught in the Dallas airport and can't make in town for votes, that's tabulated, you know. So it was such a razor. Which is why they sent
Christy: everybody home, because I think they had a whip count and Pete Hegsop was going to get impeached.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, good reason to send everybody home. And, you know, it might apply to the, remember the delayed swearing in? Elating in Halva from Arizona. Yeah. You know, all these things become pretty apparent. But it's, and look, it's unlikely to change, too, with gerrymandering. You get 95% of districts that are determined by the primary. And so they're not really swing districts. So the numbers are the numbers. I think this election, you're going to have some surprises across the country. But in the following election, it may even back out to a more closer majority.
Monica: I think about this alliance that you're part of and just the broad support that it would have. And so many other things that would have broad support in Congress. And we just have a really defunct and dead government right now that just is not working. They're impotent. Nothing is working. They have abdicated all of their powers. It's very frustrating. So let's end on a little, a little lighter note. Because seriously, what you're advocating for, I think everybody can get on board with. So let's get to a little lightning round. So ocean engineering or a congressional floor debate, which is hard to navigate.
Joe: Ocean engineering, probably.
Monica: Really?
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even in the state of our
Monica: Congress now, that surprises me.
Joe: I had to study a lot to get through engineering school. Like, I'm not going to lie. It was very tough. My hat's off to any engineer. And as Monica, your husband is the one, right? Like, you know, it's very, and look, there's a lot that relies on it as well. But politics and congressional floor debate, look, it's just challenging on its own. I went up against a good friend of mine on the Republican side, Garrett Graves from Louisiana. And we're debating offshore drilling because I wanted to ban it off the coast of the Carolinas. And he's from Louisiana, a big pro offshore drilling. And maintain a great friendship. But on the House floor, we can engage in vigorous debate respectfully. And I think that's the way it should be.
Christy: Yeah, well, it's the same thing in sports. A lot of athletes are friends. But when you put two guys against each other on opposite teams, you play the game. And you follow the rules. And you do what you need to do to win. So one thing people get wrong about South Carolina.
Joe: Well, I'll drill down and make it more personal. I guess the one thing I get wrong about Charleston is equating it to Southern Charm. Because everyone always asks me, oh, you know, do you watch Southern Charm? I'm like, no, I know the people on it. Shep is a good friend of mine. Very, you know, funny as hell. Very sharp. But it's not a – it doesn't just personify the entire city or area.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Christy: Just out of curiosity, what's going on on the ground out there? And what are you hearing about the Senate race?
Joe: Annie Andrews, the Democrat running, is a good friend of mine. She's highly qualified. Love her. Very sharp. Very sharp person.
Monica: Send her our way.
Christy: Yeah. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. And she's just – she's a great person. You know, you watch that debate with Senator Graham and the Republican primary. You know, it's disheartening. Let's just say that. Yeah. South Carolina is a ruby red state. I've run statewide here before in a bad cycle and got better. So it's an uphill battle. I'm also running in a Trump plus 13 district and have won that in a good cycle. And so I can tell you right now, this is a great cycle. This is a great – if there's ever going to be a chance to do it, it would be this time. And so, you know, it's a tough road to hoe. But, again, I think this is one of these cycles where the impossible may become possible.
Monica: And we ask this of everyone, what is giving you hope right now?
Joe: Family. Yeah. Like I said, just welcome. We got a two-month-old baby girl. Congratulations.
Monica: Is anybody sleeping at your house?
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She started sleeping through the night probably about four weeks ago. Wow.
Christy: You are very lucky. I don't think I ever had one of those.
Joe: This too shall pass, I imagine, right? Next week, there's going to be a regression. But I think, you know, not being in Congress and being back in the private sector, I'm able to kind of focus more on family and become a bit more immersed. I don't think my time in politics or public service is done by any stretch. But it has given me hope. And just kind of, we got a three-year-old son and eight-year-old son and it's just been a lot of fun. And it's. Now they have a little sister to protect and take care of.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Joe: And there's reminders to what to focus on, what's important. Right. And why we do these things that we do. Why y'all, you know, why y'all started this podcast and why you have this platform and what it's about. It's not about you. It's about what comes after you. It's about who you're fighting for. Yeah.
Unattributed: Absolutely.
Monica: Christine, I have grown children and I think we would, would both advise you to just enjoy it because it goes so fast. It does.
Christy: It's going to be a blink of an eye and then they're graduating from college and then they're moving out.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Joe: I say, I say, I say that whenever the nights are long, there is a, there's a, there's a, there's a period between getting home from work 530 to bedtimes where it's, it's all hands on deck. And that goes back to our first part of our conversation is when you're gone in DC, you're gone to Congress, it shifts a lot of burden over and makes the job that much tougher.
Christy: Which just reinforces the fact that public service is supposed to be personal sacrifice, not personal enrichment.
Unattributed: Correct.
Christy: Right. I'm just going to go there.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's insane to see the numbers of, uh, and especially what's going on right now with, with the personal enrichment. And I just.
Christy: Yeah. It's, it's a lot. And so Joe, let's tell our listeners where they can find the Alliance's proposals, the full poll and keep up on your work.
Joe: Yeah.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Joe: So, uh, again, it's, uh, pharmaceutical reform Alliance. We're online at www.uh, pharma reform Alliance.com. Um, also the handle pharma reform Inc. Um, and, um, so the social media handle website. Yeah. Uh, so you can find the, again, that tool that determines where the, the money is going from big pharma to each, uh, representative in each particular state. You can find the, the bipartisan polling that illustrates the points we talked about and just a whole host of other data points that I think is instructive on this whole, uh, debate on prescription drug pricing, which again is, is, you know, it's very unique to the United States and we should not be paying as much as we're paying. Uh, and we shouldn't accept it as reality. We should acknowledge that we got ability to, to change this if we want.
Christy: Well, I'll be sure to put that in the show notes, um, the links, direct links, and I'll include a direct link to that, that tool so that people can check, um, how much money their state, their state legislators are being paid by big pharma.
Monica: Awesome. Any fight, any final words, Joe, anything else you want to share?
Joe: No, I was, this, this has been fun. Um, we, we do quite a bit of these and I want to say, uh, this has been, um, awesome and, and I think it's incredible what y'all have built in our building. And I was just, uh, I feel fortunate to, to be a, uh, a small, uh, glimpse of it here today. So thank you for having me.
Monica: Thank you for sharing your work. Yeah.
Christy: We're honored to have you on and, and thank you for, for continuing your public service, even though you stepped away from Congress. I think more people, if, if more people thought that way about working for the greater good, the country would be a lot better of a place right now.
Unattributed: Yeah.
Joe: Well, it's easy, easy doing something that, you know, that you're consistent about and you believe in. And, um, it's, you know, it doesn't feel like work at that point. Right.
Unattributed: Right.
Joe: Yeah. When you're, when you're saying things you believe in and supporting causes that are near and dear, then it just feels like I'm continuing the things I've been doing. So happy to be part of it. That's amazing.
Monica: Keep up the great work.
Joe: Thank you. Thank you.
Monica: To our listeners, if you are finding meaning in the stories we're sharing, if something moves you, challenges you, makes you see the world a little differently, please like, comment, and share. It helps more than you know.
Christy: And follow us everywhere at the Politics Chicks on Substack, Threads, Blue Sky, Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
Monica: Thanks for being a part of our community, folks. Keep shining your light so we can find each other in the dark.
Christy: And remember, we're stronger together. Joe, thank you so much for this conversation. And today, it was great. And it was such a pleasure to meet you.
Joe: Thank you so much. I appreciate y'all. Thank you.