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Built to Win is a podcast for leaders driving growth, transformation, and complex change. We speak with founders, operators, and industry experts about what it really takes to build and scale successful businesses. Conversations cover leadership, culture, talent, technology, and execution, with a focus on real challenges and practical decisions. Expect honest insights, real stories, and lessons you can apply straight away. Powered by people. Built to win.
welcome to the built to win podcast
I'm your host Luke Mccluskey
and during this podcast
I am going to be sitting down with the top 1% of people
in their industry I'm gonna be getting under the bonnet
of what makes them special
what makes them great
and what makes them stand out from the crowd
a lot of people ask me who I circle or what I circle
and I could sit here and say that
we help find the top 5% of talent in the marketplace
I could also sit here and say
we'll do so in timescales
that you've probably never seen before
and whilst all of these things stand true
I think
the true thing that separates us from our competition
and what really makes us unique
is the people that work here
we all have a relentless drive to succeed
a relentless drive to win and winning for our customers
so ensuring that we find our customers
the right contractors
to deliver their projects on time and in budget
running for our contractors
ensuring that we can get continuity
so going from one contract to another contract
to another contract
and ensuring that we've got the client base
to be able to deliver on those promises
we specialize in markets the food manufacturing market
and the life sciences market across the UK
Europe and USA we deliver large scale capital programs
we deliver large scale ERP programs
but I do appreciate that these are
just words so why not give us a call
let us prove ourselves in a live opportunity
and let us showcase what we can do for you
welcome to another episode of the build to win podcast
where I sit down with
the top 1% of people in that field uh
try to truly understand
and get under the bonnet of what makes them tick
what makes them special
today I am delighted to be welcomed by Gary Leslie
thank you thank you for coming on
um Gary um just about the appetite of uh the viewers
um Gary
um ha entered the food industry as a graduate um
on a graduate scheme for Moy Park and worked his way um
all the way up to director of complex
um for the organisation
which is pretty much operations director
director of operations um
and we're gonna talk about mindset
pressure disciplines and stuff like that um
because there would have been
thousands of people that ended
graduate management schemes in the food industry
in the UK at that particular time
what was it that kind of got you to to to to where
where um
where you get to did I have I missed anything on that
no the only thing would be as a to the boy park
give me that the
it's initial uh introduction to what's required
and I'll be able to decide to move on tonight
and I do all here guest in the uh TV yeah
yeah fine okay
um so we'll start with kind of mindset and pressure um
when everything is on the line now what
what is it that your internal dialogue sounds like
normally
for having spent that much time in the food industry
probably lived slept
uh progress through most things that you can
you can possibly think of yeah
challenges but
but when I see the proverbial hits the fan
and you're trying to show leadership
when people maybe sort of really
really struggle that's what I nine times out of 10
you probably have experienced
something very similar to what has happened yeah
you can just stay calm and provide guidance
support direction
and then just help guide the team
through the challenges that they're gonna be facing
yeah it's crazy
not everyone can do that but can they stay calm under
under under pressure
yeah well
I mean probably insane
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
yeah probably a recent heart rate and pulse yeah
but I mean literally just having that
that calmness but also clarity of thought
yeah and hopefully direct
direct communication uh huh
that actually helps the
helps the team and the people involved to get
through it you know
either we can actually see
just the sprinkling of light
at the end of the dark tunnel
you know it's there
and we just keep saying we're getting towards that
we're getting towards that yeah
yeah you know uh
have the fear of the contest
because they are the subject matter experts
they're in their field doing the job that they're doing
mm hmm you just need to keep
keep them aware of that yeah
totally true yeah absolutely
and what was it
what is it you say you would do differently when
like the stakes are like at the at
at the absolute highest I suppose it means
it really depend on what actually you
what situation you were you were facing
uh it's really just providing that clarity of uh
decision making uh huh
you know I like speed of that decision making to
to actually guide them through the initial
the fire yeah
where uh
because we can sort of dump in the fire uh
and then we tried it then we tried to put out
but actually navigating through that initial uh
explosion hmm
no me no
it's a process we
we face it and now we'll all face it
we face it together yeah
we'll just try to get each other through it
but knowing what the outcome
where we need to get to and a high degree of
a confidence in the path that we're actually uh putting
uh huh
so you what is it do you feel that um
separates people who because it
like we would have all worked with people that
absolutely thrive and perform under pressure
and people that don't perform under pressure
and kind of crumble under that pressure
what is it do you feel
that separates those two people
well I see if you find that the people who
on the outside appear to struggle under pressure
are probably the ones that actually get you through
you know that
are the ones that you can rely on
in extreme circumstances'cause
they're probably more logical
or introverted you know
but they make me sort of show for you
I'd say that uh
I don't even know what I'm doing here
but they're probably being selective
and they may well know the right path to follow
but don't want to talk it
don't want to talk it through
but yeah
they may be afraid that
it will be construed as being incorrect
or the wrong way but 90
90 10 would be the right way
it's just getting those people to have
have their say and be heard
you know I
I don't want to have people who are
see themselves as as wearing the
the tights and the and the uh
the cape mm hmm
you know and then wanna be a superhero
you know I'd rather have people who don't start fires
than people who start fires right
yeah that's actually a really interesting take on that
because a lot of the time
you're exactly right
as you don't have the confidence to
to come out and say that they've got an idea
but I guess if you can prise that out of them
the next time there's a crisis
they're probably more confident than coming forward and
and coming to say hey
have you have you
have you thought of this that's that's uh
yeah that's really interesting
and where you can actually provide clear leadership
you know but actually has then been able to change your
your behavior approach to the
to each of your end of the battles within the team
to ensure that they're that they get a chance to
to to prosper and shine yeah
through the through the stressful moments
cause you know
the the personal contracts with the team members
will really come come through in those situations of uh
pressure yeah
as long as everybody seems to be in part of the uh
the solution yeah
that would be up to the leader
and that is
to ensure that they recognize what people are actually
sort of uh
stepping backwards you know
and so almost coming uh
distant from the solution and they take it yeah
yeah absolutely
and also it's interest on the other side of it
leadership will show cracks under pressure
right when
when when there's an
when there's a a fire
as you as you put it
that is normally the time when you'll see the cracks
in somebody's leadership style right
cause then there's the need
there's the need of reactions that come and
and stuff like that
what would you say are your
the non negotiable habits that have like driven
driven that success to
to get to where you've got to
I think for me I've always
I've always worked I've always worked in uh
in operations
but I've always seen operations as the combination of
uh
effort uh awareness
uh cost me a
cost me an effort of uh
personal capability and I've got to say skill
but it's not skill that's just
you know uh
being able to do whatever you're facing with
at that point in time
it's actually always driving like you can do a bit more
hmm you can do a bit more
so never accept uh
what you just do was enough
always go a bit better 1%
but that's understanding where
how far you can take your team
your your team members to the best of us
but I don't actually
uh falling over by now
and then it's just it's setting up the dialogue to say
my personal contract with you is
I will push you and push you
you need to then tell me when I'm overstepping the Mark
and then I'll I'll step back
uh huh
and then we'll we'll reset the boundaries
how high we actually can get
and then I'll take you to the next stage
but the next stage will be higher
so
yeah on the last
you know
and the people just people tend to resonate with that
for me over over time
it's probably connected just the
some of the more local games and uh
so being involved then since uh sport
uh huh
team sport I'm talking team sport interesting
what's your ah
what um
what sport's your favourite push
favourite sport oh
as you can tell by my physique and my uh
a
it seems to me
Robina
have you um
have you read legacy or done the audio book of legacy
no James Carr on the all blacks
one of the best books on on culture I've
I've ever well
in fact it is the
the best I was on a um
my local club was doing a
a reunion for a team of the 90s
but yeah not quite successful
so we had a reunion
and a colleague of mine then was talking about ethos
culture and they actually remarked about the old
and the old blacks and the old blacks
it's not just about a team
and the representation of what that team also will be
and actually will right back to the starting position
which is what does
and you need to stand for it
what's the culture within the country
hardest the community engage with
but I'm bringing that forward
so we try to deliver or build an identity and ethos
yeah it's that cultural awareness
it's not so on purpose driven on vision maybe yeah
it's phenomenal what they did
it's phenomenal um
that is definitely the best um
book I've ever read on on the high performance culture
it's unbelievable and a lot
a lot of great leaders use
sport and analogies and sport and leadership to
to and get it into the business world because it just
it's such a game changer
cause the stakes are high in sport right
the stakes are high in business
but um
what what would you say um
is something that you consistently do
that most people probably don't have the discipline for
I would say for me is those shoes on the seal
hmm no
I just can't accept failure
I mean I'll always have a target set
I'll always go to beat the target yeah
you know even if it's just beating it by one
yeah I always go to beat the target
and I've always done that through my
my life I mean
while I was in sort of a development stage through trip
through all the training and sport
and you know
I had a friend when we so tricked
we played
I'll be six or seven years together for the same thing
and I was mature about I did one more than him
what where
where does that come from
where does that come from
I don't know because neither of my uh
parents would have been uh sporting
my wider family group also would not have been uh
into sport in in a big way
I think
it just comes with how you are brought up at home
and so what you do to the influence of your parents
your parents help you or not I
know that my mother was very driven
she might not actually say it
but being very specific about it
certain approaches certain values yeah
yeah and Joel's always meet me via where
wherever I feel to live up to those values
yeah yeah
I can imagine yeah
yeah that's so what my mother never
never watch me face work wow
no no
just cause she just it was
it wasn't it wasn't
but it wasn't sort of but what she was uh
I can be into but she made sure that uh
I didn't didn't want feeling to allow me to do yeah
to do that in my life yeah
yeah fair yeah
it's interesting isn't it'cause when you think about it
like so for the
I'm say I'm similar I can't I
I it makes me feel sick
the thought of failing like I just
and if I think as long as you have a work ethic
you can always achieve what
what what the task is in hand
whereas some people are just so happy
just letting failure after failure after failure um
and I it's really hard to understand what it is that
where it comes from in people
and what is that separation point
I suppose it comes down to
what I see is a definite step of failure
the thing is
you just go and you just go through the year
I'm a I'm a 30 gallon and I only get to the
a standardized
norm of the output of performance of no delivery
and that's it comes on the end like that
no it's text box enough for me is always no
it's that it's that willingness to constantly improve
but improve with that
the end of the knowledge that you're creating a better
a better a better environment
hmm better situation
that people coming behind you
then can
equally step into the path of the positive performance
delivery yeah
yeah yeah yeah
it's interesting it's um
I I think of
you know like
is it the three minute mile or the four minute mile
for the four the four minute mile like that was
it was broken once and you know
all of the headlines leading up to it
you know your heart will explode if you if
if you do a four minute mile and all of that stuff
and then one person breaks it
and then I think a dozen people do it inside the next
six months or something um
is that what it is for you
is it like just breaking those breaking
breaking the ceilings and the and the limiting beliefs
I suppose I suppose I'll talk to you alright
do you do you not believe that
because I probably would never have said myself
I want to be the first person to actually beat
the record
but once I realized that it's not readily achievable
and uh
people with similar abilities as me were able to do
it then why not you're right
I'm not I'm not gonna let them do it
I can't do it yeah
yeah yeah
but would I be
the person who wants to be the Roger Bannister
I think being the first to break it
I don't know alright
I don't know that would be me uh
do I would I want to actually create that
anybody actually then I was a coach
I was a coach but
bringing that
four minute will always be the expectation
yeah absolutely
it's just seen as as a
it's done now no more yeah yeah
it's done you know
it's done now right
I don't I don't achieve
I don't achieve my level
there's no point of me trying to aspire to be yeah yeah
it's an interesting one um
where where do you see people kind of fall apart
would you say it's mindset or execution not
not just in business but in life
I think actually for the vast
for the majority of the people that would be uh
execution because their mindset is
I just want to be part of the establishment
play out the uh
the norm uh
the people who actually then want to succeed be better
um create a better lifestyle for themselves
or a better sustainable future for their family
or their business you know
for them it's a mindset they must
they want to get better
and that's whether they have taken on the coaching
development it
may or may not have been provided for them
yeah and they actually gone and requested that
bad development no
cause you got the mindset
mindset and then you got to develop the skills
that'll come down to the execution yeah
but if you fail in the execution once
your mindset should be lower
that you're gonna just bounce up and yeah
try it again if you make the same mistake twice
then you haven't Learned absolutely
it's win or learn right
it's win or learn most well
all the time it should be
talk me through a moment where just in life
like something like didn't go to plan and kind of what
what happened next like from a
from a thought process a bounce back
and so for me personally uh
even though I may not look like it in terms
in terms of size but I've always uh
tried to be very proactive
uh huh and uh
and training you know uh
I avoid concussions what my
what my body is capable of doing yeah
yeah so I can't do
I can't do any any uh
intense contact stuff mm hmm
no so running
no no
cross trainer elliptical yes
yeah rowing uh
bikes so all of that non uh
non impact so
so I remember I went uh
I went skiing with to
I Learned to ski in my early forties because I refuse
I would refuse to go skiing while the lobby
uh huh so
because I don't like yeah yeah um
you know which probably that my family regret it
because they came to skiing quite near as well
ha ha um
so when skiing one time was
I guess my third time skiing
and I managed to be persuaded to go with a
a group of experienced gears for a three day trip
and of course my determination and refusal to be a
I don't was I've just followed them everywhere
so I had I had no skill level to do so
I think I actually told him
I said I would have scored 10 out of 10 for commitment
and yeah zero out of 10 for styling skill
was it like confidence and ability
that was it wasn't even confidence it was like
I'm refusing to feel it yeah
so what were you doing black ones
oh
my money's come back home
uh and I said to
they said to my wife my legs are bit sore
she said did you fall
I says no
but uh
I just want I just my legs really sore
so she says OK
we'll take it to the we'll take it to the A&E
to the A&E I had a
I managed to get to have a
2 inch long compound spiral fracture of my ankle
which I did
because I was putting too much pressure on the turn
because I was freezing so what day did that happen
I'm at home on Day two of this place
did you carry on on day two
yeah
and then I was starting to complain of pain
and of course some of my friends were saying
we should put you in that wheelchair
and he says with the greatest respect
I'm not sitting in that chair yeah
I'll never hear the end of that
yeah yeah
and then I walked to go for
so I walked in the three hours and the
and there's some the Sunday morning I was going
this is actually very good straight in 3 hours
and then they called me in to get an X ray
so I walked to the X ray but of a limp
I walked um
took the X ray
I went back and then they said you need the X ray again
so I walked uh
again the guys could do the
the uh
like the the nurse said this way
your legs broke but we needed to do another
so take that clutch I'm alright
I walk so walk to get it done
and then it's the third time
she threatened me because I don't put them
and then I said well
we might need to keep you for an operation
I said why
we might have to put a metal plate on
I want no
no she just put a cast on
be okay so eventually consult the Senate just to the
a plaster part of my apartment
so I phoned up a work colleague
of mine and I said right
can you pick me up tomorrow cause I can't drive so
so it was a Sunday so I went to work on a Monday
yeah and then seven weeks later I did
so there was the tour in Italia
came to Northern Ireland and I did a
um
for like a couple of uh
open legs
so the part of it was like a three year program
I call it the Gran Fondo mm hmm
so some weeks later I did 170 kilometers with some like
uh 3
5 meters of climbing some weeks later
alright I'm still
I'm still
where does that come from
where cause that
that is a mind that is that is a
that is a different mindset
and then I did it I was the first year
and then I did it three to two years after
and each year I said we have to be that time
but yeah 30 minutes that time
but yeah fair
but where does that come from
it's crazy right
I don't know do you
do you is it
is it um
do you get like dopamines hit
for beating records and beating yourself
and beat I probably
I get the personal satisfaction of yeah
doing what I was what I said I had to do
and the probably surprising people
people think ah
there's no way he's going to do that or um
whatever and there is um
there it so I
I do a lot of one to one mindset sessions
like with with my team and stuff like that
and when you when you break it down
like
whatever it is that they're trying to achieve in their
career or their personal ambitions
or whatever it is it normally stands
it normally tracks all the way back when you
when you keep going and you keep going
and you keep going
it's normally pride and proving people wrong
it's crazy like
like it's it's
it's uh
it's crazy when you uh
when when
when you when you strip it all back
I'm the same I
I'm exactly the same
which is why like I will tell everybody
I'll go on to LinkedIn and I'll I'll
I'll tell everyone what our
our vision is for the next 12 months
the only reason I do that is so I'm hold
I'm holding myself accountable
because I can't be seen to fail at it um
which is crazy it's
it's crazy when you break it
when you break it down
I don't know where that comes from
probably being doubted when I was younger and and
and stuff like that maybe but um yeah
proving people wrong is a big one
I think I always and I've done this for a while
so whatever is if you're in training
group training whatever
whatever you're into this and you said
we're gonna do this and I said
well exactly what are we gonna do
hmm
how many how many repetitions
how many sets yeah
you know and I was full of that lingo
why I just
I just need to know exactly how many we're doing
cause my head lingo right
and I'll count them out and then I'll go over them
20% done and 30% done yeah
and oh
we're more we're on our way down here now yeah
yeah yeah
I might be absolutely you know
corner freeze uh
sucking diesel you know
cause yeah
the auction's not gonna end yeah
yeah I'm going OK
I've got one more to do and then I'll do it
and I'm just OK
yeah and then I'll just wait for the next set yeah
so just have to know after know what
what it is I've been asked to do yeah
and then OK
well I'd actually break that down
and then I know what I'm gonna do
I see but I want
I want to do every one of them
uh huh same back
uh huh I do see
I do see him in Tennessee yeah
yeah yeah
it's interesting I see a
I think it was a podcast it's
it's quite old
but it was Will Smith talking about his mindset
like if you ever go on to YouTube
and look at some of Will Smith's quotes
his mindset and and uh
his disciplines and stuff like that
it's it's uh
it's really really motivational
but he he turned around and said
I'm willing to die
I'm willing to die on a treadmill and the guy goes okay
what do you mean by that he said
if we get on a treadmill
one of two things is gonna happen
either you're getting off first or I'm gonna die
it's like it's different different
different uh different level of mindset
um it's just grit
isn't it yes
I still
I've I
I'm uh I'm not gonna feel first
yeah yeah yeah absolutely
I actually probably would fall off
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha um what um
so we all have bad days right
how how
how do you how do you reset after a bad day
what's your what's your um
I wonder if my wife is here
would she actually agree with me
ha ha ha ha uh for me
I like to live away from so away from my desk at work
uh huh so
you know so I commute yeah
I mean and allow me to calm down uh
reflect uh
wind down from the uh
specific challenges of that I've had in that day of it
if it's a real uh pure
pure day where no I say
I haven't been able to create all the fires
or fires have been created
and it shouldn't have been created
so I feel I feel sort of
responsible and
responsible that
I didn't actually sort of start with the phone
so I like to I like to own wine myself and to travel
so actually when I get when I get home
it's time I'm able to park
park the work and then have a couple of family life
it's hard isn't it
yeah and I would also
you know I had the gym yeah
I would go on when I was almost uh
deliberately go to uh
push myself to the limit uh
this way uh huh
just to then completely wind down
yeah fat
and then I've never had balls to do it
if I do that then hahaha
yeah again
yeah yeah
fresh she's caught herself so high right
you just need to uh
get rid of it um okay
do you believe resilience is built
or is it wired into somebody
uh I
I think it's it's
it's a bit like to the the uh
the mindset and the uh
you have to you have an approach that says yeah
I I
I'm going to get knocked down
I'm going to come across an obstacle that
I may not be able to overcome
uh I'm not gonna let it defeat
defeat me but I have to have that mindset
that's true I mean
to say I mean
I'm gonna have
I need a level of resilience yeah
um but I also learn
need to accept that I'm not gonna come
that it always be better
so I can need to have that really
real positive mindset about what type of you can
make a magic
magic on a face and then if you're not present in it
because tomorrow it's a different day yeah
you wanna see you wanna be in an operation
you wanna face a different challenge
uh huh you know
I could be very critical lying to build up and build up
and before you know
you're trying to carry the weight of
you know many
many challenges
and you're definitely going to feel that stage yeah
I think
you have to learn from resilience and build resilience
but like you have to have the mindset first to say when
yeah
I'm gonna move on mm hmm
and you always mean
there's sometimes you'll say the glass is half full
or glass is half empty yeah
for me it's always it's half full yeah
and then you just continue to move move around
there's always gonna be a silver lining
coming through some cloud
mm hmm maybe this maybe the smallest
but you got spot at but you're always going to say
right you got you got hold on and say look no
you did this we just needed to continue to do that
and then walk on this one yeah
yeah no
and then team can see okay
well and you get traction
then you get momentum
then you get flow and then you back right yeah yeah
um what
what
what does winning what does winning mean to you now
winning to me is seeing the my team
uh whether it's a team at a Pacific
uh or my uh
tears actually having a mean big meeting
the objective that they had set themselves about
what was a project
it's cross functional project that the team working on
is actually delivering the project
uh on time
and everybody has uh
a sense of worth from that
to me it's a break
the team coming through like okay
I'll get some personal individual uh
satisfaction from that but now it's more of like the uh
the team winning through your people
yeah and I'm so
so sad to see them that they can uh
realize that the future is bright
and the future will be better
you know just because you've done
something for the last 10 or 15 years
this way you can make it much easier
yeah and then uh
helping them to invent that
uh huh
uh huh
um
and do you think winning is addictive
absolutely absolutely
and uh
thankfully I've
I've
I've I'm not a gambler
I go to I like going to sporting events
but lately if you see me going to sporting event I'm
I'm walking going towards buggies walk away
cause I haven't it's literally it's pop lock
yeah yeah yeah
but uh
when I'm when I love to see
I love I love to see winning
winning behavior I love to
then you can have people do my do things yeah
uh you know
I honestly watch me now again
come back to sporting now sporting mean uh
Tommy Pergatcha you know
has been chasing after the uh
the San Diego Padres
it's the last five years it's one that
it's one that he has never won
he then the bold and the cross 20 km from the finish
and then he managed to win by uh
nothing quarter of a second fearful
you know but that's yeah
I just just
I keep seeing that yeah
so that's that's
that's that's an
that's a an individual under absolute the prime
uh huh but then if we actually look at what they do
I mean the skill set has
their skill and ability has got them to a certain level
it's their it's their
their mindset and their resilience
hundred percent to actually m C no
I own the I own the best
how much wasted talent have you seen like
you know you see so much wasted talent everywhere
you see it in sports you see in business where they
people have got that natural ability
that others might not have
yeah but they haven't got the work ethic
but sometimes you mean it's
it's hard to mean the leader in the group uh
identifies the individual
capabilities of the team members
because you can't have a
you can have a team member who's
always doubts themselves hmm
you know but literally you wouldn't be as a
as effective as a team without their input
yeah you know and
that's making sure that they feel
they feel equally as valued
hmm and then the team and I help them
I mean and they know that they are
always want to be the best person in their
in their field they don't want to
they don't want to take on the leadership
but they want to take
but you just have to recognize what their
what their best best way to hit the best out of them
yeah and then yeah
absolutely how
how do you actually build a team like you personally
that performs under pressure and
and I'll I'll
I'll that probably a following question to that
do you do you hire mindset over skill set
or skill set over mindset
that's a really tough one uh
I remember years and years ago uh
I think we brought in a night time facility to the end
and we did a a marriage break profile
uh huh and the uh
I say the same day was general manager of the back
and so I think there was 12 people who actually did the
uh the Mars break profile
they would have been sort of the wider
senior leadership team within the uh
within the site plus some uh
supply team support team members
and the 11 members of the 12 were uh
estjs
and one member of the team was that was a
an ISP m uh huh
the complete opposite
I thank say that was the only female
in the team yeah
so that so that for she kept
she kept she kept the right
and she was also the HR member
yeah
but literally by then I thought appoint people who are
who are like you uh huh
driven just to get the I put out the door yeah
you will probably be less mindful of uh
people's emotions and uh reactions
uh huh it's always about strive
get it done get it done
get it done move on
you know uh
we're just expected to do this
so once I once I real realized that I thought okay
well how do I actually change and get a uh
cross functional team that aren't all a uh
mirror image of us and
and you do had you unfail before and then
then the Myers Briggs then you did the Myers Briggs
yeah well
after we do it was as we came at came from
so we probably did the Myers Briggs
um I'm gonna say
probably three years into the evolution of the uh
the same of the time yeah
we're going we're stepping into say okay
what's the what constitutes a high performing team
uh huh
I was like okay
let's just see what the uh
funny profile is this is uh
for all the individuals and I went
hold on
crap just the same as each other for a long time
so how do we actually ensure that
each of us has the chance to
consider a yeah turn of opinion
mm hmm because we're all
we're going driving for the one yeah
yeah hi
and if we pick the wrong route
then we're gonna we're just gonna all yeah
over the edge and so they won't actually act like that
so they probably didn't agree with the
agree with the say they would yeah
and when they
probably the best person placed of among six or six
really not said at the time to
to stand forward uh huh
rather than maybe looking external
or elsewhere within the wider business
to see was a complimentary yeah
uh
talent uh huh
looking in the talent but a lot of the
a lot of the appointments would be on
on see you know
probably the most important
interview stage is probably the last one which is
profile funny sad conversation or heard no
do you actually do you actually believe that you are
I could actually really worked with the individual
approach me and
do you actually believe that
there's no value and benefit to the team
yeah and you know me
if I mean it you can actually yeah
a person has you know
to the first couple conversations
yeah yeah yeah yeah
but I said
all the proper stuff has been done for years on yeah
yeah of course
of course you just actually get them from the uh
cultural let's have a chat yeah
yeah yeah
absolutely you do all the competencies at
that point um
a lot a lot of businesses still miss that out
you know they still
they still miss that that element out oh
it's nice for me for me
I cause you're gonna
I mean I probably spend more
more time than that
probably I do spend more time with my uh
work colleagues than I do with my family yeah
you know and so for that $40 a week or maybe 60
depending on wait a minute
I mean you want to make sure you're
you're you're surrounded by
with the people that are like minded
yeah are willing to do the hard
hard but you have you
but you enjoy being with them yeah
and you actually get a shared
shared development then you provide
I support you if you're dying I
I can support you when you're dying and
uh huh
you know
we can cleverly work together to agree to the situation
so you're actually you're watching right from yeah
starts right
so starting to build that up
so you try to start you can start to recruit the team
or you can actually build the team uh
plus having you know
as you mentioned earlier what's
what's your what
what's your vision what's your
what's your goal for the year
you know has I've been built from
yeah was that out
was that been part of the team's build
yeah for the uh
for the incoming year on the
or from the uh
the strategy mm hmm
I think we're getting some by the last six to 10 years
I've been learning a bit more about how to yeah
get a collaborative involvement in the astrologies
would be willing to this OK
it's our astrology uh huh
it's not your astrology uh huh
it's our astrology
and then collectively we're building the uh
activity plans yeah
absolutely so just
just taking it back to earlier uh
conversation I
I love how you build a high performance team
by the way with the personal contracts and
you know I'm gonna push you to be better and be better
and be better and you tell me
you know if
if we're if we're
if we're going too far um
I I love that
I think that's that's
that's brilliant when it comes to leadership
what is it that you feel that
what's the biggest mistake
that leaders make when they're trying to build that
high performance culture probably uh
making
making a decision that it's probably the right decision
but the the leaders
the leaders almost post pushed it on to the uh
to the table
and I probably made the decision individually
mmm hmm ourselves and informed the team
mmm hmm it's probably
it was always gonna be probably the
the ultimate outcome
but stepping in and doing that is you doing it that way
I'm doing probably
I'm not saying that slip service is not
but actually probably not truly buying into the uh
the team needs us hmm
three of them maybe it's
it's time it's time determined on it
and it has to somebody has to make a decision
you need to get it done and don't
so you move here
you're moving away from a decision making the day
it's difficult isn't it
yeah it's difficult
cause every decision that you
you make if you run a it's what
it's one on one isn't it
if you can get them to come up with the idea
what do you have
if you have the two way personal contract to say right
no tell me yeah
do you think that the you know
I or someone in the crew over
overstep the Mark or or pushed
pushed our idea too too vehemently to uh
with with the rest of the team
yeah me
ultimately
we're paid to make decisions OK
you know you just find this the uh
the outcome of the decision is usually better
if it's been perfectly part of a way to elaborate of uh
understanding of why it says you need it
hmm then somebody has to make it yeah
yeah yeah absolutely
um what is it that drives you
well
as I'm getting more towards the twilight of my career
is about setting up a
a future that allows any business that I'm
I'm associated with the uh
that the best possible foundation for the future
that the business can succeed in
but more importantly the uh
individuals than the operations team was
if I was still in an a
uh
operation function that they are best set up to succeed
hmm you know
for me that's the uh
it's important insight knowledge
uh shared learnings before we try to say no
they continue that way you'll fall you'll you'll you'll
you'll have a hurdle only because I
I did that 15 20 years ago
yeah and
you know try to uh
provide that level of uh
of of
of guidance mm hmm
and also except for me
that I'm probably um
personally better than I think I am
and I keep myself for I'm actually stupid to
to to try to show that I actually can uh
show not show knowledge inside yes
I'm sad people have to succeed yeah
you know to leave a legacy right yeah
yeah yeah
I thought I would leave a legacy
but I wouldn't I wouldn't see it that clearly
I
even though I turn around and say I want to
I want to succeed
I don't even want to express that I succeeded
yeah yeah
of course you know I
I'll always fly back I'd say that
I'll stand by an alignment
and I'll let people hear more
let's say uh
I'm out of the face for radio
you know rollers
all the face look up for the uh
the camera hmm
I'm not I'm not
I'm willing to take enjoyment from that uh
from that success yes
yeah fast
I got
I got to I got to actually stand back and that people
you know I probably hopefully I've been working on that
that skill set uh
over the last sort of uh 10 to 12 years
mm hmm and so I actually can know better yeah
a better moment yeah
fair enough fair enough
what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given
uh actually
the best piece of advice I've ever been given was from
the original I like a 2
I get 2 pieces of ice one more
the first one was from the original MT of
of of my park back when I actually went from my uh
to my ex my auntie
it was just a you just just he appeared
he walked down the corridor
just appeared into the final stage and the
he came across that he was he was
he was certainly an enigma
uh huh he come and he's chief and he's honest man
this is a long time ago
so it might not be approved in iron
to this hard on my life with me shoulders
my ha ha yeah
and he says I'll give you one piece of advice
I I'm gonna talk because I'm gonna employ you
Jesus Angel said that to me
what does he say I'm gonna employ you uh
he says
and if you don't make a mistake in the first week
I'm gonna suck it I says right
bye I mean no
I'm not sucky I'm not sucky
if you make the first mistake
I'll suck you
if you make the same mistake a second time
I'm like okay
so that's he's then tell me
he wants me to make a change
he wants me to make mistakes
because I won't know everything
but he will hold me to account
if I actually don't learn from the mistake that I made
so he wants you to make a mistake
but then he wants you to learn because he says
I'm questioning the state of the school yeah
yeah yeah
I'm trying to bring change
I'm trying to bring innovation
I'm trying to bring new concepts to it
have you ever used that yourself
I I have
I have showed I have showed that
and then so stealing that yeah
I'm so stealing that that's brilliant
and that was my so again
by the end of the would be sort of my
my mentor who actually has sort of seen that I was
probably about
I thought I wasn't and sort of took me on
on his journey so as he progressed
I was able to progress to be the right person for him
and he turned around and says guy
just one thing always remember
no two people this year and there's
there's no way that the people that make money
people like you
cause I know that I can give you direct feedback
that you're just gonna go OK
uh huh and I know if you actually
if you actually hit a brick wall and you
and you fall down you're just gonna brush
stand up brush yourself down and just move on
and I went yeah
he said but remember
you cannot have that approach
with the people that you want to develop
because they're not all going to be as resilient and
yeah determined and force right to you cause
you know one's one skill set doesn't move
doesn't move yeah
two solid pieces of advice solid um
what's the worst advice you see people follow
uh probably advice would be
is did this way without actually explaining why it's uh
thing best to do that way
uh huh
you know so
uh I've made the decision this is the best way
just do it uh yes
and then so I would
I think I'd I would say don't
don't do that hmm
even when there's times where
that time for food has been dead
you need to be able to uh
explain uh
either at the time or subsequently after yeah
yeah I'm gonna say
here's why I made that
I made that call or said to do this
mm hmm mm hmm
and one final one for me
are you driven more by the fear of failure
I think I know the answer to this one
or the the excitement of winning
oh it's fear of failure
mm hmm so it's well
I love I
love the the folk from
mm hmm balance
but I would always say the fear of failure uh
would be far away the uh
enjoyment of the of the wedding
yeah but
but if I failed and I haven't tried
fair fair
Gary this has been amazing
I've really enjoyed it
and I think the viewers are gonna absolutely love it
um thank you very much for joining me
thank you very much thank you
cheers cheers