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Join Dr. Kim Kutsch, the brilliant mind behind CariFree, as he explores the extraordinary lives of thought leaders in the dental industry, and beyond. Contrary to Ordinary explores further than dentistry - here we unravel the minds of change-makers, paradigm shifters, and world shakers.
Every two weeks, we dive into the stories of our remarkable guests—ordinary people who continually defy limits. Discover their tales of success, resilience, and self-awareness, and explore how they leverage these experiences not only to elevate dental practice and patient care but also to champion personal growth and entrepreneurship. Listen for captivating conversations with innovators who seamlessly blend art and technology, pursue curiosity, and create the truly extraordinary.
Contrary to Ordinary isn't your typical dentistry podcast—it's a vibrant community that's hit #1 in ‘Entrepreneurship,’ #3 in ‘Business,’ and #21 in ‘All Podcasts’ for a reason. We've had the pleasure of hosting inspiring guests like innovators, dental leaders, pioneering inventors, and artists, including Angus Walls, Machell Hudson, Dr. Simon McDonald, Dr. Bobby Birdi, Rella Christensen, Professor Phillip D. Marsh, Carmen Ohling, John Kois, Dr. Susan Maples, Doug Young, Colt Idol, Stephanie Staples, and many more who've graced our mic.
Each episode isn't just a listen; it's a lesson in living an extraordinary life authentically, embracing rebellion, and nurturing leadership. We dive into diverse topics, from mentoring, coaching, personal development, and work-life balance to self-awareness, emotional intelligence, leadership, storytelling, altruism, and motivation. And yes, we also cover dentistry—exploring natural dentists, dental health, dental laboratories, oral care, oral surgery, dental hygiene, caries disease, brushing teeth, and overall tooth care.
Tune in to Contrary to Ordinary for a unique blend of wisdom that goes beyond the ordinary and resonates with all aspects of life! This podcast aims to empower you to be extraordinary in your dental practice and improve not just your dental care but your overall life!
Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share with us? Or perhaps a question for Dr. Kutsch. Contact us on our Instagram, Facebook or Twitter today.
About Our Host:
Meet Dr. Kim Kutsch: a retired dentist with 40 years of experience, prolific writer, thought leader, inventor, and researcher in dental caries and minimally invasive dentistry, brings his insatiable curiosity to the forefront. Eager to learn from those breaking boundaries in dentistry, particularly in preventative and non-invasive dentistry approaches, Dr. Kutsch launched the Contrary to Ordinary podcast. As a keen creative and curious mind, Dr. Kutsch extends his podcast guest list to artists, entrepreneurs, and fascinating minds who have piqued his interest. He wants to learn from them and see how he can be inspired by their extraordinary ways of living and adapt his learnings into his own life and his business, CariFree.
About CariFree:
CariFree is the new model for oral health and cavity prevention. Dr. Kutsch is the CEO and founder of this business. They create cutting-edge technology and science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, making it easy to banish cavities for good with preventive strategies over restorative procedures. Find out how dentists are using CariFree products to revolutionize their dental practices here: https://carifree.com/success-stories/.
Recording:
Extraordinary.
Leader
Innovative.
Integrity.
Honest.
Courageous.
Curious.
Thoughtful.
Brave.
Unafraid.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There is a place where technology and art meet, where work and play are one and the same. When the threads of curiosity are pulled in this place, the spark of innovation ripples across industries. Those who make this place their home are giants. Titans, who pursue creative passion while leaving their mark.
Recording:
Creative.
Flexible.
Brilliant.
Clever.
Confident.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They are courageous thought leaders set on changing the practice of dentistry and their corner of the world. More than the sum of their parts, we deconstruct the traits that bind these uncommon innovators.
Recording:
Humble.
Daring.
Disciplined.
Playful.
Principled.
Spontaneous.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
To discover what makes them contrary to ordinary, where we explore the extraordinary. Hi, there. I'm Dr. Kim Kutsch, host and founder at CariFree. I'm fascinated by what makes the paradigm shifters, world shakers and art makers tick. Let's embark on a journey. Extraordinary is a place where ordinary people choose to exist. Together we will track the peaks of possibility, illuminate the depths of resilience, and navigate the boundless landscape of innovation, to discover how some of the most innovative dentists and thought leaders unlock their potential and became extraordinary. On Contrary to Ordinary, we explored the motivation, lives and the character of innovators who see limitless potential around them, the people behind some of the largest paradigm shifts in the practice of dentistry and beyond. We as dentists want every single one of our patients to walk away from our practice with a smile that they can be proud of. If a practitioner can also make their patients feel comfortable in the alien world we inhabit, they must be doing something extraordinary, right? Today's guest is Dr. Betsy Bakeman, a private practice owner and expert in restorative and cosmetic dentistry.
Betsy is included in an elite group of less than 300 dentists worldwide who are accredited by the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, the AACD. In fact, she is one of 50 dentists worldwide and the first dentist in Michigan to have achieved the distinction of being an accredited fellow in the AACD. Betsy is also an adjunct faculty member and Clinical instructor at Kois Center, which is where our conversation took place. This is part one of my interview with Betsy, so make sure you stay tuned for the second part of our conversation next time. Betsy had a difficult time believing in herself growing up. In fact, it wasn't until a teacher told her that she was scoring top grades in high school Biology, that the wheels began to turn in her head.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It's so important to tell young people that they have potential because we think they know it. They don't necessarily know it. I was babysitting for two chemists at Dow Chemical. They had a three-year-old and a six-month-old, and I babysat off and on for them for several years, and I remember Mr. Soche driving me home one evening and said, "What do you think you're going to do for a career?" And I'd been in to have my teeth cleaned and I was thinking about something with Biology and the Sciences and I said, "I'm thinking about maybe becoming a dental hygienist." And he said, "Why not a dentist?" It never crossed my mind. I didn't know any female dentist. No counselor, no one had ever suggested that, but he just threw that out there and it planted a seed.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
How old were you when that teacher pulled you back in the office?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I think I was in 11th grade, and then my senior year there was a Co-Op program. If you had enough credits, you could go to school in the morning or afternoon and then be out in a job. And there were dentists in Midland that hired Co-Op students, and I was fortunate enough to get a job at Dr. James Bakeman's office in Midland. Ironically, Bakeman is my married name, so no relation, but Dr. Bakeman had a morning Co-Op student and an afternoon high school Co-Op student, and those were his only assistants. He had one assistant between the two-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
... high school students. I know. It was an amazing experience. And that's the other thing I'm always encouraging people. People will talk about what they're majoring in, so my poor young patients, I'm always saying, "Well, what do you want to do?" I mean, I think it's so important to really think about a career and then what's the pathway to get there? That piece is really important. So the opportunity to work in this dental office was amazing, so I assisted chairside. I did all of the room setups, the room breakdown.
It was back when we had tanks for radiographs for X-rays, and so we would develop all the films on Wednesday afternoon, Dr. Bakeman golfed or he'd go to the club during the winter time. And so I tore the lab apart, clean the lab, drain the tanks, clean the autoclave. I had all of that experience, and then at the front desk was a lovely woman, Dolores, who she had terrible arthritis, and so there were times where her bouts of arthritis were such that she just couldn't even work. And so I would run the front desk as well, confirmed all the patients. I'd do the peg board accounting, I'd schedule patients.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you're a high school student doing this?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I was a high school student and I started school when I was four, way back when, so we started early. So I was a young high school student. I was maybe 16, and so I had the opportunity to do all of those things. And within three months there I realized that I was fascinated in everything in dentistry. And you work with people, that appealed to me as well. He was his own boss. I saw that and I thought that was interesting. Sometimes he would come in, he'd say, "Dolores, I'd like to take off the week of January 5th," and she would just pick up her sharpened pencil and cross off those days in the appointment book.
And I thought, "That's pretty sweet too," and he seemed to have a nice lifestyle. He drove a nice car, he seemed comfortable. And so I put all those pieces together and thought, "If I can do it," I didn't know if I had the intelligence, but I learned very quickly as I went to college that it was more about work. I just needed to put in the time and achieve a certain grade point, do well on the dental admissions test, and I really thought that I could do it. Within a year, I was thinking, "I think I can make this happen."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you headed to college then with that career goal in mind?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yes, but I told very few people. I mean, I would tell the counselors at school, but I didn't tell my high school friends, my closest friend, but I didn't tell people in general because I didn't want them to think, "Oh, poor thing. She can't do that." In fact, my high school counselor, he strongly discouraged me. He knew my grade point in high school. He'd never seen me push for anything. I ended up needing to go to another counselor to find out what are the requirements to get into Dental School because actually he would not give it to me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow. Betsy, as you're telling that story, I have goosebumps. When I was in high school, my high school counselor, they said, "Well, what do you want to do? What is your plan? What are you going to do?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm going to go to college and I want to be a dentist," and he looked at me and he goes, "You need to pick a different career. You'll never make that."
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It is interesting to think about, and your counselor was more blunt.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, he was very blunt.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
That's wow. My counselor just kept saying, "Well, dental hygiene's a really good career for a woman," that was his response.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. You and I came through Dental School at a time where it was very patriarchal, chauvinistic, good old boy club. Up until the mid 1970s, 98% of dentists were men or male, and that's changed dramatically today, I think for the better. I'm happy to see that. My class in Dental School, we had 10% of our class were women and it was the first time, and it was like the largest percentage of women in a class and there were amazing people. And so it was interesting to me, I didn't ever face any of that headwind of being a woman in the profession or coming into the profession. Did you face some challenges because of that, Betsy?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
They were maybe there, but I never felt it. I always try to see the best. I didn't have the opportunity to learn from a lot of, there weren't a lot of, as you know, female instructors and it was just the way it was, but it was also that way in undergrad, in the Sciences, it was the same thing. In Math and Sciences, there weren't a lot of women faculty members, so I'd never really had much different, so it didn't really think about it. I've always felt that I've had wonderful opportunities for growth, and so I've just, take what you can. I try not to read between the lines on things and take people at face value, and sometimes people have said things through the years that maybe were just more the way they were raised and I just let it roll off.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
When I think back, I can't actually remember any college Science or Math professors who were women when I was starting out. There weren't any in the Dental department either. We're lucky that things are different now. According to the ADA among the 202,304 dentists working in the field as of 2023, 37.7% were women. But of course, more representation doesn't necessarily change attitudes. If you cast your mind back to my conversation with Dr. Amanda Seay, you might remember the experience she had on the first teaching engagement of her career. I'll let her recap that story in her own words.
Dr. Amanda Seay:
One of the dentists that I was sitting having breakfast with, he's older gentleman probably in late 50s, I was early 30s at the time, came in and he looked at me like stunned, and he looked at me and he scoffed and he said, "You are our presenter?" And I said, "Yeah, I am." And he laughed and he said, "Honey, I've been practicing dentistry since before you're even born," and I realized that he didn't know when I was sitting there that I was the speaker. He thought I was just an attendee.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
This experience almost shattered Amanda's confidence, but I would love to have seen that man's face when she knocked it out of the park on her first try. It feels so outdated to put someone down because of their age or gender, but it does still happen. Betsy has been a part of the Kois Center family since 2006 when she joined as a clinical instructor. Since then, she's published countless papers on cosmetic and restorative dentistry. I wonder what does being part of the Kois Center mean to her?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It's humbling to do that kind of dentistry. Patients put a great amount of trust in us when they allow us to restore their teeth, and so it's really an honor to do that and we want to be able to do it to the best of our ability. And the Kois Center, learning here, being involved in the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, it's really helped me be able to be a better dentist, provide better service for my patients.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That's a huge undertaking. I mean, when you do a complete reconstruction or rebuilding of somebody's smile, I mean for them it's a huge undertaking in terms of time and also money, right?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Time, money and managing, sometimes fear, sometimes they've had a negative experience. Many times people when they get to that point, patients have actually invested a lot in their teeth already, but as we learn here at the Kois Center, they have a fair amount of risks, susceptibility to disease, and so it's been something they've struggled with all their lives and they have sometimes some guilt about that. They feel poorly about themselves when it really wasn't their fault, so there's all that emotional component to be able to move past as well, to invest in having something done with their teeth, and hopefully the training at the Kois Center has helped me provide more long-lasting solutions for the patient, and that's really the truly gratifying thing.
It's one thing to do this beautiful cosmetic result no matter what it is where you really improve the patient's smile, but that's over the course of a couple months and you take your post-op photos and everyone's happy. It's a big celebration of how beautiful everything has turned out, but when the patient comes back to you repeatedly and you see them five years later, 10 years later, 20 years later or more, and the restoration and their mouth looks just as good as the day you finish the treatment, that's what really makes you happy. That's what really brings you a lot of joy.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And that gets overlooked a lot, I think, in our profession is like we treat the immediate, and I'm talking about in general. Our profession treats the immediate issue and treats it for today, not really thinking about, "Is this going to last 10 years or 15 years or 20 years or longer?" The first couple of times that I did some major consultations with patients, they broke down and started crying, and I'm a guy. Guys aren't comfortable with that. I wasn't at the time and I didn't have those verbal skills, so they started crying and I was like, I froze. I didn't know what to say. And then it evolved to the point where I really appreciate and understood how much guilt and shame is associated with that, and I got more comfortable with the fact that, "It's okay. It's okay to feel that way. I'm here to help you. I'm on your team on your side."
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
The other thing they teach us here is you not only look at how the patient presents, but you really critically evaluate your treatment plan. What kind of risk does the patient end up with even after they invest time, money into restoring their teeth or doing treatment, treating the periodontal disease, what are they left with? And anytime our treatment plan would raise risk, which would reduce prognosis, we have to have a gut check. We'd have to say to ourselves, "Am I going in the right direction for this patient?" Or, "Is there another solution that would lower risk and provide the patient with a better long-term outcome?"
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Betsy, you bring up a really good point there, and I was educated in Dentistry in the dark ages a long time ago, but we were trained to save every tooth at all costs because there weren't really good alternatives. If you didn't have a tooth, there wasn't a good replacement for a tooth. I mean, you ended up with dentures ultimately, now we have dental implants. So trying to save every tooth, particularly teeth that are high risk that maybe aren't going to be in the mouth two years or five years or 10 years from now, whereas if you replace that tooth with say, a dental implant that if it survives the first five years is going to be with that patient for life.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Exactly. And we have more science altogether. I mean, we made the best decisions we could make 30 years ago based on-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
40.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
... and 40-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
45.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
... on the science that was there. There's always more science, more data coming out that molds our decisions going forward, and we have to be open to that. Just because we did things a certain way before we really knew it was the best we knew then, but we always have to be open to changing. We can't hold on to certain approaches just because that's the way we've always done it. We have to be open to the science and evolving.
Speaker 11:
Hi, Contrary to Ordinary listeners. We're going to take a short break from this conversation for our segment questions with Dr. Kim. Don't go anywhere. In this segment, I'll answer a listener's question about their dental health. If you have a dental question that you want answered, then send it to podcast@carifree.com. That's C-A-R-I-F-R-E-E.com, and add questions with Dr. Kim and the subject line. If your question gets read out on the show, then we'll send you a small gift to say, thanks for checking in. This week's question reads, "Hello, Kim. Loving the show. I would like to know how much pressure should I apply to my teeth when brushing, and should I use a firm or soft bristle toothbrush?"
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thanks so much for the question. Proper toothbrushing technique is essential for maintaining good oral hygiene and preventing damage to your teeth and gums. When brushing your teeth, apply gentle pressure and brush in a circular motion for two minutes, avoiding a hard back and forth scrubbing motion. Always select a soft bristle and avoid hard or extra stiff bristles as they contribute to tooth wear and sensitivity. If you have sensitive teeth and gums, consider an extra soft bristle or ultra fine. Many people prefer an electric toothbrush over a manual one, but the same principles apply. Use a gentle force and use a soft bristle. Also, replace your brush or bristle head every three to four months or sooner if the bristles appear frayed or worn.
If your bristles appear splayed, you're applying too much force. As important as the toothbrush you use, also select a toothpaste that is not too abrasive. And if you, dear listener, would like more information on all things dental then head to carifree.com/podcast where we've got more resources on dental health and our line of CariFree products that can help you keep a healthy smile. Let's get back to the conversation. So you're really involved in the AACD, you're involved in the Kois Center, you're involved in a lot of organizations. What about that is important to you?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I mean, being here involved here at the Kois Center has been one of the greatest honors of my career. I get emotional even thinking about it. It's a place that I have learned a lot. It changed my practice, it changed outcomes for my patients. It was just a major shift, and like I said, to be able to see my dentistry last the way it does has been such a gift to be able to help impart that in others, to have that same experience, sort of like the holidays when you were younger, the excitement and the magic of Christmas morning.
As you get older and it becomes more routine, it's not the same, but then you have children and you see that experience through their eyes and you relive it. That's somewhat how I can relate teaching and helping others is when you see the light bulb go on for them or they share with you what a difference it's made for a patient or in their practice. I get this glimmer of that feeling again, of that excitement and that magic of having a shift in your thinking. And it brings me so much joy. I love being able to give that back and there's only so long we're here, and there's only so long we're going to be able to do what we do, but to spread that and have it go on in others, it's important to me. I'm willing to take that time out of my practice to help others. It has value for me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. I look at the expertise in the tribe here at the Kois Center, and I've never seen anything else like it in the profession anywhere in the world. I mean, you can go to different organizations like the AACD and the best people in cosmetic dentistry are there. Or you can go to another organization and find the best people in that knowledge in that particular area. But as a whole, the amount of knowledge and expertise and openness and sharing and safety and having colleagues that you can network with is a huge part of this center.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It's been wonderful. And the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry has been great too because of their credentialing process. You have to submit five cases that cover a broad range of cosmetic dentistry, and as a general dentist or a prosthodontist, specialties are allowed to do that with their board exams. But in general, dentistry, how do we push ourselves, again, make the analogy, if you want to become better at tennis or golf, you could be out on the driving range or you could be on a court just practicing hitting a ball, doing forehand, forehand, forehand, forehand, backhand, backhand, backhand. Well, until you put yourself to the test, until you play a game, you don't really know how if you're improving, and that's ultimately what we do. We start to play a game. We test ourselves against others or a standard, and the credentialing process does that.
You can look at your dentistry and say, "Oh, that's really very great," but now you submit it to a board of examiners and have them look at it and say, "Does it meet this standard?" And it's hard. It really forces you to critique your work, to become better, to work with better ceramists, to learn more about composites and smile through all those things that are just so important and it's humbling, but what a great opportunity to improve, and anybody that wants to improve their aesthetic results, it's a great process.
I don't know anything else like it in dentistry. And let's face it, I don't care where it is in the mouth anymore, it can be in the front of the mouth, the back of the mouth, patients can evaluate how it looks. They can evaluate the margins. They can't evaluate a lot of things that are important to us that we take responsibility for, but they can pick up a mirror and look at it, and if it's imperceptible, they are thrilled. If it looks like teeth or an enhancement of what their teeth used to look like, they are so happy and they spread the word and it's important. We need to be able to deliver that to them.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
If we're going to do the very best for our patients, then it's important that we're always learning and growing. So many of the people I've spoken to on this show have been lifelong learners, and a way of accelerating our learning is to open up our work to critique from our peers. I've talked about psychologist and author, Brené Brown on the show before because I think she has so many interesting things to say about the concept of openness and what it can do for us. In daring greatly, how the courage to be vulnerable transforms the way we live, love, parent and lead. Brown says that vulnerability is the first place of innovation, creativity, and change. To receive constructive criticism, we need to be vulnerable, but also have enough self-confidence as a practitioner that we know we can improve. To be a lifelong learner in our field, it's important to have your work observed and critiqued by our peers, which can be a challenge. Betsy though takes challenges in her stride.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I seek challenges as more as goals, something that I want to accomplish or do I find them motivational when it's something within my control. If it just takes work and grit and determination, I love that. I'm all about that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you lean into it?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Let's get it done. I find it more challenging when I have to collaborate and I have to rely on others, and I get frustrated because sometimes you think your goal should be everyone's goal, and that's not necessarily the case. I know my frustration can sometimes come across as disappointment to others. I don't mean to make people feel inferior, but I want them to lean in the same way, and that's not really fair. I've learned that that's a maturity thing of not everyone's in the same place, and I've actually had people tell me that when I was working on accreditation in American Academy at Cosmetic Dentistry, my local lab technician, I was really excited. I was going to do my missing tooth case. I brought her an article of a beautiful case, some ceramic work that was done by Lee Culp, and I said, "This is how I want to do this case, and this is what we can do. We can use this new material," and I'm just so excited.
And she said, "Well, if you want to do that, you need to give Lee Culp a call and do this case with him." I said, "No, no, no. You can do this. You absolutely can do this." And she said, "I don't want to do it." She said, "I have a business to run. I have three children. This is your journey," and it hurt my feelings for her to say that, but sometimes we have to let go of one hand to be able to grab onto another. And she pushed me to let go of her hand and grab another hand, and I ended up working with Lee Culp for 10 years, and he taught me a lot.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
He's an amazing-
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
He's amazing ceramist and all of his knowledge about occlusion and photography, I learned a boatload from him. I get it, and sometimes we just have to let go, but it can be hard. We're not all in the same place at the same time.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... and it's challenging, I think, particularly if you have relationships with those people, to let go of that because you want to hang on to that relationship, and it's like, "Well..." But she did you a favor pushing you on.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
She did, and we're friends to this day.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, that's Cool. When you think back on your early life, you've told me a couple of people that just had momentary, just huge impacts for you, who were a couple of your mentors as a young person, would you say?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Oh, my mother was just so influential in my life. She had this big family and lots going on, but talk about unconditional love. She loved us all. She's very hardworking. My mother loved to learn, and she was always interested in new things. She loved people. She became very passionate about her faith and helping others, and she was so good about being there for her kids.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That's so cool. Other mentors that had a profound influence on you?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
My family's just been always really important. My husband, Jim's an orthopedic surgeon and he has a great work life balance, and he's been influential in my life as well because I could very easily have poured myself into work. I could definitely have monovision, and when I become involved in something, I become very involved, and he definitely has a great balance in life. From years of working, working, working, I didn't really have that as much, and so he's instilled that in me and I think it's really important.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, absolutely. What kind of things do you guys like to do?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
We like to travel. We like to bicycle, and we just like to be with family and friends, and I enjoy cooking when I have time and to make a nice meal and see people enjoy. That's enjoyable as well.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thanks for listening to part one of my interview with Dr. Betsy Bakeman. In part two, Betsy and I discussed the evolving role of digital in dentistry, her incredible work ethic and why she doesn't consider herself extraordinary. Around here we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile or scratch that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary.