Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
This podcast is dedicated to changing the automotive industry for the better, one conversation at a time.
Whether you're a technician, vendor, business owner, or car enthusiast, we hope to inspire you to improve for your customers, your careers, your businesses, and your families.
Lucas Underwood 0:00
I was walking out of the bathroom a few minutes ago and as I opened the door, Cecil, like I'm walking out and Cecil's still in the bathroom. He says, Oh, that's nice and warm and I was like
Lucas Underwood 0:16
Mr. Walker, introduce yourself, buddy.
Nathan Walker 0:18
Nathan Walker Walker automotive in Wilmette, New Hampshire,
Lucas Underwood 0:22
Wilmington, New Hampshire.
David Roman 0:23
We're how far like we're in New Hampshire is that?
Nathan Walker 0:28
A little south of Central? So what I've got forward, what I'm looking forward to when I leave here Friday night is going home to about 100 degree temperature swing. Yeah, it's going to be in the minus 20s. Friday night.
Lucas Underwood 0:44
I think I would stay here if I was completely honest with you yesterday.
David Roman 0:48
What airport does like Southwestern, so fly into
Nathan Walker 0:52
the Boston has the most options. Manchester is like half the distance, but a lot of times there's layovers and stuff, whereas Boston, Boston was direct to here. So that was easy.
David Roman 1:04
Yeah, yeah, I could see that. I don't know. I don't, I'm okay. With the layoffs. He always makes fun of me, because he's like, why are you flying to Chicago first? Well, it's 35 minutes away, and then I get off the plane, I walk to the next plane I get back on and
Lucas Underwood 1:20
here's the thing about layover is that the layover increases your likelihood of having a delay or something happening? Because 80%, at least
David Roman 1:30
not southwest. Southwest had a stellar reputation, right up until, like the last two to three months. They had a stellar reputation on being on time. And it wasn't till it's been in the last year, like all of a sudden I'm having problems. But my wife used to had to choose to travel two weeks out of every month, she was on the road. And she would not fly anything but southwest because she's like, I'm gonna get on the plane. I'm gonna get off on time and I never have to worry about it. I don't get revelation. Yeah. And so I've always I've attached to that. He doesn't. He's out of Charlotte. And their hub is American. Right. So head flies American. And it's a crapshoot, whether you'll get
Lucas Underwood 2:21
a knock on wood, I better knock on wood. I have never, I have they always take direct flights. They've never let me down. And now I've got enough points that when I show up in the airport, and I'm in there so much, they're like Mr. Underwood, don't worry. That flight was canceled. We'll move you to this one. And all those people, they move me right up in the front of that line. All those people are really upset about
David Roman 2:42
it. And the other thing too, is that it's not a hub. Kansas City is not a hub for anybody.
Lucas Underwood 2:47
So maybe after this change, it will be do you think that
David Roman 2:49
no, heck, no. Nobody wants to fly to Kansas City. It's not the point. I'm okay with it there because they have a hub in Dallas. And they have a hub in Chicago. And so all of the well, it's midway, which is a tiny airport. It's not it's not O'Hare. Oh, here's a nightmare. Oh, here's a walk. So in Charlotte, you go into Charlotte. It's like, okay, I'm 45 minutes to the gate from this plane to that plane. 45 minutes, and it's a walk halfway. You're huffing. You're like wheezing, like you asked for the car? Yeah. Then they're like you're not battled that you're asking for a car, then you get offended. You're like, how did you don't don't age me?
Nathan Walker 3:30
You know, you're looking at your watch. And like, I don't have time. Yeah, well, and my
Lucas Underwood 3:34
heart rate is also we had time or my heart rate when we flew to,
David Roman 3:39
to what tools we went to tools in Pennsylvania, and that was flying into what's the name of the town? Allentown? Yeah, Allentown. So we fly in Allentown. I love that airport. That airport is awesome, because it's it's literally just the runway and the runway. And that's fine. But to get there, you have to fly in the Charlotte and we land and it's like, hey, terminal six D. Gate 58. You're like, Okay, we ran it's my me and my whole family. I have two little kids running and we're like, we gotta go we gotta We barely got on that plane.
Lucas Underwood 4:23
I so I was in Charlotte, before Apex two years ago. And there were all these flight cancellations like the day before. So I get into Charlotte. And dude, the entire concourse like before you go through security is packed. I mean, you can't walk, breathe, people are throwing things and I I just had this really lucky event as I'm as I'm like, going through right. I'm trying to even just find a line to get through TSA right. And I'm asking and there's the sheriff's officer there I'm like man Do you know where lines at he said buddy he's I'll be honest with you being found Milan. Be my guests get in But he said, I don't think anybody knows what's going on here. So we're just here trying to keep the peace. And so at that point, there was a, there was a young girl. And she was one of the porters pushing a wheelchair. And she's pushing it through. And she comes by, and this man grabs the wheelchair out her hands and he grabs it, he throws it. And he like, takes our hands and tosses it. And I mean, like, into a sea of people, right? There's nowhere to go. And so she just like breaks down. And, and so I walk over to her. And I just felt terrible for this poor girl, because I said, Hey, you know, there's a spot over there between the like, there's a spot where the area before security closes down a little bit. And we were standing in that closed down spot. And right outside that there was this little cutaway where she could go walk and I said, Hey, I said, you're doing a really good job. And it's okay, like, walk out there and just catch your breath, go over there, you can step aside, put your masks down, catch your breath, you're okay, because I could see her like going in full blown panic mode, you know. And I felt bad. And I think everybody in the room was panicked at that point, because it's just on the verge of being a riot. So she walked over there, she got her wheelchair, she pushed over there. And a few minutes later, she came back. And she said, Where did you need to go. And I said, I'm trying to get to anything precheck, I've got to get to be, I think it's B 60. C, or B 16, which is at the very end of the, the concourse. And so I just need you to point me in the direction of security so I can get in the TSA line. So I can go and I've only got like 15 minutes to get there. I think I've missed my flight. And she said, Come with me. And she like drags me all the way up to the front of the TSA PreCheck line pulls the little thing up, and says something shows her badge and says something to the guy at TSA. And so I start to like go through the line and I'm putting my stuff up. He said no, he said, she said you're going through security, you need to go and like points at me and I like run through security dude, I run up into the gay and he's like, we're closing the door closing the door. And I'm like running down the chippers to get on the airplane. You know, like holy cow. Eric, that's not like that flight.
Nathan Walker 7:05
That's too close for comfort. Oh, yeah, dude.
Lucas Underwood 7:06
And, you know, that is the only time experience I've ever had with American I don't think I've ever had and that wasn't their fault. They couldn't have done anything about it. They said that that there was something like 52,000 people pre security in that airport that morning. Yeah, there was no breed.
Nathan Walker 7:27
Well, Chicago, I got stuck overnight in Chicago on two consecutive
Lucas Underwood 7:32
trips. Holy cow in O'Hare.
David Roman 7:35
Two consecutive trips. Yeah, O'Hare or midway.
Nathan Walker 7:40
Midway. Yeah. And I was like, and that's heard many people say, Whatever you do try to not schedule a layover. Yeah. In
David Roman 7:49
Chicago in Chicago. Oh, we do it all the time. Because I fly out of Kansas City is like, if you're trying to get anywhere, you're going to Chicago. Yep. He's like, two trips in a row. I
Nathan Walker 8:03
was like, alright, yeah, I'm trying to avoid this airport. And
Lucas Underwood 8:07
it cost I will do my very best to fly direct everywhere I can. Because I mean, the winners,
David Roman 8:12
the winner can be a little dicey. But you know, that's no different than New Hampshire, like sometimes a lot of snow. Like that's what it is
Nathan Walker 8:20
being on a plane having a habit D is this quite common? That's for sure. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood 8:25
So you were sharing a little bit about your shop ownership journey? And that, that you've been doing it a while?
Nathan Walker 8:33
31 years? Yeah.
Lucas Underwood 8:35
And so you've been in this? How long did you say you've been in this group?
Nathan Walker 8:40
Well, it changed from our elbow, you know, to the institute being purchasing them out. But between the 218 years, and I found out the I was the infamous, been the longest have any current member. I don't know if that's good or bad. Learner maybe.
Lucas Underwood 8:59
So, you know, I was pretty inspired by what you were telling me earlier. Because one of the things that we've talked to a lot of shop owners about, we've had a lot of these discussions, a lot of guys write it out to the very end, and they say the shop is my retirement, and this is it, and I'm gonna sell it, and I'm gonna make a bunch of money, I'm gonna do something that's going to be my exit strategy. Right? Yeah. And it sounds like you've come up with a different plan. Tell me what the plan is.
Nathan Walker 9:30
Well, the plan. So I just turned 60. I plan for many years was to have a strategy in place by the time I 62. Now, whether that was finding someone who was going to buy me out completely, or be a partner, so I only had to work, you know, four days a week, three days, whatever it may be, but just to give myself more flexibility to be able to do more things I wanted to do. So Luckily, the current guy employee I'm working with was going to buy a place, had it all worked out, had the financing, SBA local bank, plus savings. And the deal fell through. And he was in my office interviewing. At that time he expected to be in his new business. Yeah, running it. And but within a half hour of us sitting there talking, and me finding out that I had, like this amazing candidate, to possibly be my successor, you know, sitting right in front of me, to him saying, I can already tell that this is this is going to be a better fit than what the other one was. And I'm already glad that fell through because I just, I got a better feeling about this already.
Lucas Underwood 10:50
And in that, in that amazing how, like, life just finds the perfect path. You know what I mean? Like things just, you know, what was it the guy said, Life is
David Roman 11:00
not found a perfect path? What are you talking about? Literally dodging dumpster fires every single day? What in the hell are you saying you dodge dumpster fire? 60 years old, you're not that old? Look, you're making me feel bad here because I'm like, not that far away from you. I'm not saying I'm six years old. I may look like I'm six years old. But I'm not that far away. If you definitely
Lucas Underwood 11:24
don't add like you're 60 years old.
David Roman 11:27
You know, I freak everybody out. Because I tell them I'm like, you know, middle age isn't in your 40s Middle Ages in your 30s. Right? So all my texts are middle aged. I'm like, you can a crook at 74 on average. So 37? Dude, you're middle aged.
Lucas Underwood 11:46
I know. Yeah. Well, and you're over the hill.
David Roman 11:50
But you know, things are gonna change or whatever. And like, you may have another 2530 years 35 years. Like, that's a whole lifetime for this one over here. so why try to get out of the business, I guess is what I'm asking.
Nathan Walker 12:07
Oh, 31 years, and I should have added up the number of employees when I was looking, I was telling you about looking at quick information on a past guy. I should have added up the number of employees over 31 years I've had. I mean, it does kind of wear on you, you know, I've had my ups and downs, a lot of ups and downs. Definitely. On the upside now and feel the best I've felt in a long time as far as about the, you know, the people I have in place and sure not having to go and work every day. And like coming to this and feeling like I had everything I don't even need to Yeah, they'll text me or call me if there's a problem. If I don't hear from them. I know I'm going to come back and there's not going to be any any problems, you know, so that's a great feeling. But, you know, 31 years, I worked 10 years before that a Chevy Cadillac dealers a flat rate tech. So that was, you know, says 41 years. You know, it's like, I feel like I've had I mean, there's certain as actually one of the biggest things that I'm like, oh my god, am I going to have to start paying for my own car repairs that's actually gotten through my head.
David Roman 13:24
I've said that before him. Everybody makes fun of me that I'm gonna try to sell the shop as quickly as possible. But I'm like, I'm not paying retail. For car
Nathan Walker 13:33
repair, I had enough cars and enough repairs done. And I'm like, Oh my God, if I had to pay for all this, oh, I know right now. Right. And now I might have to pay for him. Like, maybe I have to work something into the deal. Yeah. When it's slow. We can pick and choose when you work on my cars, but you know, yeah, we get a deal. You know, we work a deal out or something.
David Roman 13:51
But what's next though?
Nathan Walker 13:54
Well, I have a place up in Maine. So like I was telling you when I leave here Friday. That's what they do
David Roman 13:59
when they're up in New England like northern part of New England. They just go further north. Oh, yeah. Go north.
Lucas Underwood 14:06
Angle i in the complete opposite of that. I'm already trying to figure out how to go farther south.
Nathan Walker 14:12
It's funny we we have lots of what we call snowbirds. You know that people that summer, a lot in Florida, or winter, I should say winter in Florida, they come back to our area in the summer. And there's a lot that moved down here. And it's funny how many you know, it's like a year, two years. Couple years later, they're back.
Lucas Underwood 14:34
Hey, no, see, we listen. We've got a term for that. Okay, so I'm from the mountains of North Carolina. And the thing about the mountains North Carolina is, is that in the mountains of North Carolina? It's two hours on the airplane to here. Okay, not even quite two hours. And so right now it's in the 40s 30s 40s there, okay. The the coldest it gets is probably zero. Okay. The hottest it gets is probably 95 So what we have found is everybody from there comes to Florida. And then they become halfbacks because they come halfway back. And they land in North Carolina. And then they transit to Florida when it's cold and come back to North Carolina when it's warm, because they can't handle the heat. So yeah, the heat
Nathan Walker 15:21
is it's I grew up in it aren't used to it, right? They don't handle it very well. Oh,
Lucas Underwood 15:27
I know. Tell us a little bit about your journey of starting a shop.
Nathan Walker 15:33
Alright, so just had the, there's nobody in my family this mechanical. You know, so many times I hear, you know, meetings like this and stuff, you hear about all these, you know, the generational things. Nobody in my family was even mechanically inclined. Like it all, somehow, I don't know where I got it. But I just right from the beginning wanted to someday run my own shop. So out of high school, went to technical, you know, to your technical associate degree program, graduated first in my class. Granted, that was like a class of, like, 30 some odd years started and only like, six or seven of us graduated in high attrition rate. bounced around a couple of dealerships. And finally, I guess I ended up at Bank Chevrolet Cadillac in Concord, big, big dealer. Basically, that's where I really got my roots of, on the job training and also a lot and they provide a lot of training. Okay, so I worked there 10 years, but was always the goal was always my 30 have my own place. So I purchased a piece of land, had a branch house on it, but it was, you know, in a commercial right on the main road and everything. So I built the shop. And then I, I still worked at the dealer, which is 30 miles away for a year. So I worked full time at the dealer for a year while I was started, right starting time job. Yeah, part time on my own shop. And that was a rough year.
Lucas Underwood 17:08
I bet. So I really
Nathan Walker 17:11
wouldn't really recommend it. It was let's just say if I was married at the time, I probably wouldn't have been married still, right couple years later. I mean, there was many, many, it was a small town or in where I grew up in where at my shop, it was only about seven 801 When I grew up, and it's only like, twice that now. But there was many nights that the local cop would stop and, you know, just poke his head in the door. Because the lights still on. Just want to make sure you're alright, you know, it's 10 o'clock. 11 o'clock? 12 o'clock, right, one o'clock. Not too often that was that late, but once or twice, you know, and then have to get up the next morning drive through it already, again, 35 minutes? Well, so that was a rough year. But you know, like what, like the week of my 30th birthday, I went to work full time and my first employee was a guy who I worked with and had come in was working part time. Also, just like I was helping me at my shop. And then 30 years later, it's been a rollercoaster of many employees and many ups and downs and
Lucas Underwood 18:23
how much did you pay for the piece of property in the first shop?
Nathan Walker 18:27
The property when I bought it, I paid I think it was like 100,000 Okay,
Lucas Underwood 18:32
and did you save all that up? Or do you finance it? Or did you
Nathan Walker 18:35
I had saved a good portion of it. Actually, I was a saver, right? You know, I would the I forget who was at the dealership would come to me from time to time and say, you know, you get like six paychecks you have a cash, will you please deposit those drawer in my toolbox? Right? Which wasn't the wisest thing to do, but it's just uh, you know, I did spend it you know, so yeah, I was a saver so I had saved up a lot you know, so I didn't have to borrow too much.
Lucas Underwood 19:06
And then you finance the rest and did you build your own building?
Nathan Walker 19:10
Yep. So built a building that was about 15 years later put an addition on to it you know, still remember the first year I cracked a million which I never ever, you know, right I envision myself and I help her or to maybe you know, you know, it's an hour path again past that you know, type of thing. So just gone into territory never ever envisioned right, even remotely possible and also and making more money than I ever envisioned.
Lucas Underwood 19:47
Right? Well, so
David Roman 19:48
why not go in the direction of the like nine shop owner, like why not going that direction?
Nathan Walker 19:55
That's just not my thing. I one time I thought it was and Yeah. So actually, I have a stepdaughter who lives in Australia. So I've been to Australia several times, I had a daughter a little bit older than your average person. So when my daughter was, I think she was only like maybe seven. And she had, she'd flown to Australia like four times already, by the time she was seven. And so one time when my wife and dog were in Australia was wet, and was talking with a guy I knew who was looking to get out and, you know, was talking about buying his shop and everything. And you know, it's kind of one of those, I was riding a little bit of a roller coaster of, you know, yes, I want to have a second shop. And then then you go through all these problems at your shop with employees, or problem cars, or whatever. And all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, my God, I'm dealing with these problems. And obviously, I know twice as many. I know that, having listened to the guys here, and who are obviously very successful, you know, it's all about,
David Roman 21:02
say, you have to get past three. Yep. Yeah.
Nathan Walker 21:07
I was just talking with a guy today. And he said, I get two shops. I said, you know, that's not good. I said, Two is not good. You'd have one or three or more or more, yeah, it just puts you in a position where you can have another person overlook everything. So and I was never great at delegating. That was one of my problems. So
Lucas Underwood 21:28
I sense when, when you say it was a roller coaster, and I sense when you talk about the employees that there's there's a little bit of pain or a little bit of like you feel it deep down inside, when you say that, is that is that
David Roman 21:44
you don't learn everybody learns to work on course, it was something I probably should have mentioned on the panel. But it's like, the the advice, whatnot, I cannot remember what it is that we were talking about. But the part of the the, the perception in the industry, is due to little shop owners don't have any soft skills. Yeah. And like you worked on cars, that's what you did. You didn't manage people. And all of a sudden, you're a manager of people, not a fixer of cars. And like the gentleman was asking, How do you even get to the point where you're not putting out fires all day long? That's like, stop answering their questions. It's just some of those little
Lucas Underwood 22:31
you know, here's the thing is, is we've got to remember that you have a different experience than even a lot of us, right, because you were trained in a corporate setting. You were trained to hire and fire and delegate and lead people. Right?
David Roman 22:45
They don't train you. You.
Lucas Underwood 22:47
Well, okay, you're a
Nathan Walker 22:49
so you weren't a tech, you didn't start as a tech.
David Roman 22:52
I went to tech school flunked. And then funked. I didn't, I just didn't finish. I just gave up. I didn't give up. Well, I remember the money. I was I was paying out of pocket. And it was like, it was like 1100 bucks for the semester. And I I signed up for some scholarships. And it was down to me and a single mom. Because we got it wasn't me, we don't,
Lucas Underwood 23:19
we don't, you know, we don't talk about your whole story nearly as much as everybody else's whole story on this show. Because you react so much. You drive in the little beaters. And like back and forth to school in the
David Roman 23:34
know, I had a nice car then I had some new Honda Civic.
Lucas Underwood 23:39
That's what it was. That's what it was. I can't I ended up
David Roman 23:42
selling parts. But in the parts world, what they do is they get young, younger people to take a really low salary, and work on 78 hours, 80 hours a week. That's it. And they're like, Hey, we're gonna promote to the store manager. We're like, oh, well, here's your salary. At the time, they gave you a very nice stock option. Bonus, I'd be millionaire right now if I hadn't sold out. That's that's something that I you know, I wish somebody had walked up and said, doesn't matter what you think you will learn to do with that money? Whatever you think you're going to make with that money. Do not sell until the very last minute and then dump it all.
Lucas Underwood 24:26
And I know a girl who her dad was one of the original Lowe's hardware employees. And he worked up through the ranks and it had nothing to do with with money or anything else. He loved the company he was loyal to the company worked for him for years and never touched anything to do with that stock option just kept it just sat on it. And you know, he started almost I guess it would have been 50 years ago.
David Roman 24:54
Well, they they they had you you're fully vested in four years. In You had to do something with it by year 10. So if I had or you get fired, but you had to do something when so when you had a 10 year option to do something with it, but you know, by by your fifth year you can itchy and you're like, man, it's or I'm gonna cash out $60,000 Let's go. Let's do this. Anyway, anyway, they they. So they hire these kids in anyway sick kids, I'm only their early 20s. Right? Yeah. And they work on like board meals, that's all it is 98, your payroll percentage needs to be 11%. And you're like, okay, and son, even elevens Hi, by the way, the I'm talking like 9% payroll percentage, and a payroll percentage of 9% on the store. Two, and 100,000 250,002, when I left was doing almost $300,000 a month in sales, a 9% payroll percentage and a 300,000. All sorts lets you have some employees. But when you do an $85,000 a month, 9% payroll percentage is nothing. That's you, and maybe two other employees. And so somebody has a staff the store from 730 to 930, at night, seven days a week, who's going to be there to do that? The salaried employee, yeah, that's the store manager. So the ones that survive and make it past those first couple of years are the ones that figured out, I gotta learn some soft skills, I gotta be able to manage a whole bunch of part time employees, some older, some younger, I've got to be able to figure out how to get all my tasks done on a daily basis. I've got to not be the person that answers all the questions, answers, all the phones, check out all the customers looks up all the parts, I can't do that 1000s of phone calls are coming in constantly. So you still you learn very quickly to delegate, delegate and inspect and
Lucas Underwood 26:52
that that experience has served you well. It really has. I mean, because I was all out the window when I opened my shop. Because I mean, I'm sitting here thinking about it, right? And I'm thinking man, I wish somebody had told me some of that, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I could have really done something like that, you know, and I think as owners, it's it's all too often that, you know, I fill each one of those employees, right? I'm the same way I look at my shop management software, I look in QuickBooks, and I see all those inactive employees. And I'm like, you know, like, it's not exactly a good feeling. And but that's what business does. Right?
Nathan Walker 27:31
Yeah. I mean, there's times when, unfortunately, you hire a body, you know, yeah, most of the time you try not to do that. But there's there were times when I did that many times. And it was just, it was worse than having nobody. Yeah, as it turned out. Yeah. You know, but
David Roman 27:48
almost almost every single time that ends up being the case. Yeah.
Nathan Walker 27:52
It's part of the learning experience, you know?
David Roman 27:56
Yeah. Unfortunately, I'd say but a lot of that stuff like you abandon it. You abandon it because they were in operating the store doesn't matter how big it is. The one thing like for me, the one thing I didn't have to deal with, because, you know, you look back at that and go, I was wildly successful at what I was doing, I was able to show double digit growth year over year during the Great Recession. There were and even then, like when I was even before that I had competitors coming into town, and I wasn't showing a decrease in sales. You know, I had upper management coming and going every other store has a competitor come in sees double digit, decrease in sales your flat for the year. Well, yeah, I am because I do X, Y, and Z. And I look back and I'm like why was I able to execute so easily there. And the difference is when you open your own business, all of a sudden, things that they were able to handle a corporate. We're now on you, specifically the marketing. I always had customers you open the doors, you turn the sign on, phones start ringing, customers are coming in the door. Your job was to retain those customers convert those phone customers into in the walking customers in take care of those walk in customers to make sure they come back a second time and that they always come to you to the to your store that you have a good crew that you're reliable that you hire good people. There's things you put in place, but you never had to worry about where the customer is going towards that next car gonna come in. And that was earth shattering for me and
Lucas Underwood 29:36
paying the taxes and handling the
David Roman 29:39
slow pay the tax. Sales tax. You don't want to deal with that. He's New Hampshire. Sales tax. No sales tax in New Hampshire. They have income tax All right. Live Free or Die. You guys have income tax though there. Yeah. That's not very much so.
Nathan Walker 29:56
Now taxes aren't bad. But it's funny how People come in from out of state and they free or die. Yeah, I love that some
David Roman 30:04
pets. It's on their license plates. Yeah.
Nathan Walker 30:06
Actually, my wife has a friend from down this way I'll say no, it's like, we had no helmet law, you know, motorcycle helmet law, anything. And so she always said, live free and die. I was I was always sort of thing. But she was also one that didn't understand a lot of the basics of like, she'd see places where I mean logging and, you know, Hampshire and Northeast and stuff. And so she'd see where they would, they'd be logging. She'd be like, they're gonna, they're gonna replant a tree for each one, they cut. Right. And we're like, no, come back in a year and see how many are already grown up. Yeah. It's like, no, it's clueless, you know?
David Roman 30:51
Yeah, yep. They do grow back, you know, Oh, yeah. The trees fast. And here's the thing, like, they need to grow back. I don't know. I don't know, understand that people have an issue with logging. It's like, you know, if I cut all the trees down, I'm out of business, right? Like I have to have more trees. So we're gonna make sure that we sustain this and that we have more trees growing