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Join host, Tuck Choate, and executive pastor, Bennett Holloway, as they discuss Temple Church's Sunday sermons in more detail, explore everyday application of biblical truths, and answer listener questions - all to help you strengthen you in your spiritual walk. Expect meaningful conversations that will encourage you in your faith journey.
Tuck Choate 0:08
Welcome temple family and friends. We're so glad to have you joining us for another episode of Temple talk. This podcast aims to engage our faith community through thoughtful biblical discussions centered on God's word. Our goal is to explore Scripture together to discover the wisdom that has for our lives. In this podcast, we'll be diving deep into God's truths and discussing how they impact our daily living. We're eager to unpack the riches of the Bible with you all our extended church family. And now here's welcome temple family and friends. We are thrilled to have you back with us. As always, I am tuck and joined with Pastor Bennett, how are you doing?
Bennett Holloway 0:44
I am doing well. I am full and highly favored. We just had Thanksgiving. And a deep I did I did an eastern North Carolina tradition this year took a deep fried mud Turkey. And that's something that I've never done before. And that's I didn't burn anything down. Good. I didn't burn myself. And the turkey was tasty. So it was something that I enjoyed. I didn't have to wait 20 hours smoking it. That's the difference between smoking and deep fry. And while it is unhealthy to deep fry, it cuts out about 19 hours of manual labor. So I enjoyed that. But what do you have good we had we had a big weekend here. And every year during Thanksgiving, we do a toy run, where we work with different motorcycle clubs and groups from across the state. And this year, some came from Tennessee. But it was mainly through the vein of the what used to be the Harley Davidson group out here in New Bern. And so every year, there'd be a motorcycle ride from New Bern to Kinston, where the Kennedy children's home is. And it's a Baptist children's home here in the state of North Carolina. And it's a it's a ministry that we support as a church we've done really support it through our state convention, but also in a personal relationship with them. And so that's something that we did, and we had around 300 And something people here, just south of 300, motorcycles, some of the most beautiful, loud motorcycles you would ever see. And and they left the church and they drove up to the Kennedy home where they got to enjoy the afternoon with the kids and eat together. And it was a great, great time we raise money for the Kennedy home throughout this and we got to gift them with around $25,000 for their ministry, and what they do is they service a lot of kids that are displaced through DSS here in in the surrounding counties. So there's a huge need there. Just to give context to the need. Here in Craven County where we reside. Right now there are 141 Kids in the system that are that are being displaced currently. And the deep, the deep prayer and desire of the Kennedy home is to really give an opportunity for these kids to be cared for for the season. So they may be integrated back into their home, that's safe. And that's a healthy environment for them to be raised by their mom or dad or both. And so that's the prayer that they have. And that's the ministry that they do. And Sad to say, every single week, the Kennedy home has to turn down phone calls from different judges in different courts, asking if they can take these kids, they get about 12 calls a week. And they're having to turn calls down every single day. And so as a huge need. And there's also a huge opportunity for people that want to be involved. So on Sunday, we actually had Kennedy home, come down and share a little bit about that to the church after worship and and we had a man that runs a motorcycle ministry, out of Wake Forest, come down and share the gospel as we really focused everything in on why we do what we do. And it's because of what he's done what Jesus Christ has done in our lives. And so that impacts what we do day to day. And so it's a fantastic Sunday of celebration. It was a fantastic Sunday of awareness of the need, but also an opportunity for people to respond throughout the weekend. And not only serving the putting on the event but also writing and donating money and time to the Kennedy home. They're in Kinston. So it was a great weekend. It was
Tuck Choate 4:17
great. We got to see some motorcycles on stage. We got to hear from from him speaking to us and I thought it was a wonderful message. So but for today we wanted to go kind of a different direction. We wanted to do another testimony episode. So we have with us in our studio, Karen and Tim welcome both so much. Hello. Hi. And how are you guys doing today?
Karyn Lackey 4:42
Pretty good.
Tim Lackey 4:42
Yeah, doing well.
Bennett Holloway 4:44
Mainland it so the lackeys you guys are incredible couple. And it's been so much on my end through a period of time getting not only more and more exposed to your personalities as individuals, but also for you, as a couple, as a family, getting more and more involved in our church. So before we jump into some of the backstory about who you are and where you've come from in terms of what the Lord has done in your life, I would love to just get a taste of maybe a flyover about how in the world you came from a couple from Cali to New Bern, North Carolina, and even getting introduced to Temple Church share a little bit of that with us.
Tim Lackey 5:28
Well, you know, I was just thinking about that it's been a really fast three years, it seems like because we came out to North Carolina and 2020 in August, late August 2020. And we arrived the first week of September. Yeah, so it's weird. It's really just been three years that we've been out here. And we have just, I feel like I'm, I've been here forever, you know, that. I'm very well entrenched here at the church, and hopefully, I think is a good way. But, you know, our journey from California started in, you know, Karen and I were both raised, born in California, we spent most our entire lives out there. And then we knew we weren't gonna be able to retire and stay out there. So we looked around different places we wanted to go and a friend of ours had moved out here previously. And we came out to visit her. And Karen made the made the proclamation that this is where I want to go. And of course, once once Karen speaks, that's what Tim does. So that's right, go. Happy wife happy life. So we, we didn't plan, you know, it was it was, we thought we were going to be about another year later. But the COVID hit and kind of changed everybody's lives, changed our lives changed our world. And it just accelerated that whole move for us. So we ended up coming out here about a year earlier than we expected. But, you know, I think it was a good thing. Yeah, I feel like, you know, the whole trip, everything was very inspired by God. You know, when we, when we left California, with, I felt like the I felt like the Beverly Hillbillies. We looked like the Beverly Hillbillies had a truck, and trailer and all kinds of stuff. And, and, you know, we're driving across country, you know, and it took us like, 12 days to get out here, we didn't just come straight out, we did like this weird zigzag pattern and visited a lot of people. But, you know, when we, when we came out here, our friend that had already moved out here, she lived on like five acres. And she said, just put your camper in the back and stay, you know, for as long as you need to. Because, you know, we were, you know, trying to get jobs and place to live and different things, because that was kind of the faith jump for us is that we came out here with really no, no, no plan, no, no place to live, no job to come to, you know, just knowing that we were going to we were going to live on the property that Meredith had, and, and that, you know, it was gonna work out. You know, we just, we just believed it. And so yeah, we've been here for about three years now. And, you know, very, very happy I think, you know, I miss my family and, and our friends back in California, but the people that we've the relationships that we've developed out here are just as valuable to me now as any of those that I had before. The whole
Karyn Lackey 8:40
time we were coming here. And when we first got here, things would go wrong in our definition. And Tim would look at me and shake his head and I say, God's got this, God's got this. And they got it make it better. You know, it's like, our storage unit, for some reason didn't get closed out. And so they're calling up and they're going, you know, you owe us this much money, and you haven't paid and it's like, no, we moved out on that date. You know, and it's like, they started arguing with us, and then we get a phone call going out. Nevermind. You know, it's like, Thank You, Lord. So
Bennett Holloway 9:12
Karen walked me through real quick. So you guys came. And then there was something in you that said, this is where we're going. Walk me through that feeling and that could that desire. What was it that made
Speaker 2 9:23
me decide Newbern sign New Bern, North Carolina. One thing it rains. It sounds really weird. But we went we were at that point in about a 10 to 12 year drought. In California, half our town had burned down. You know, the town a cup out 30 minutes away from us had burned a whole big area all the way through to Malibu. And then because we lived not far from Malibu, and then we come here, it rains here. It's beautiful and green. And one story I don't think I've ever told you is that my parents grew up basically in the same town and went to the same church, and there was a church split, and my grandfather, my dad's side locked Bagram, my grandfather, my mom's side out of the church. So mom didn't see my dad for years. They barely knew each other anyway. Well, then my father goes in the military. My mom, who was very adventurous, drives across country from California, just because she wants to see New York, her and her girlfriend in the 50s. So it was really weird. Anyway, their car broke down in Fayetteville. So she got it fixed, was driving around and pulled up next, these military guys and one of the guys goes, Hey, California, that lady's got a California license plate. They met, dated and got married in Fayetteville and then moved back to California. Hmm. So it's like, my brother and I are laughing because I ended up in the state that my parents got married in. Yeah, yeah. What are the chances? But it was also there's a lot of history here. And I've never seen this old we've only seen the history and California Arizona Ark. Yeah, that whole area on the west, which is, which is American, Indian or Spanish, right? Yep. And here, there's a lot of colonial and it's just fascinating to me. So
Bennett Holloway 11:08
that's an aspect that I didn't fully appreciate until I got here. You know, guy came from Oklahoma and Texas, right. And just about as much history as you gotten in Texas, Remember the Alamo. And then in Oklahoma, a lot of incentive to young state. And so got a lot of native Native American heritage, a lot of stuff like that, which, which I loved. But I also love colonial history. Yeah. And so once I got here, and I think it was one of the first couple months that we were here, and we were walking down by the by the old capitol building by Tryon Palace, and one of the houses that's still standing is older than the Declaration of Independence. So I sat down and looked at that, you got to be kidding me. This place? Has some history. Yeah. And so that's an aspect I attribute of Nubra. And then I fell in
Tim Lackey 11:55
love with the architecture. What do you think of the architecture? Beautiful, it's
Bennett Holloway 11:59
amazing. It's amazing. I love it. Yeah, that's good. So so as you guys made your way out here, borderline on an Abraham pathway, where you have no idea what you're doing, where you're going. And what you'll do when you get there. This level of the development, the growth of the your faith in God and dependence on him as, as things kept breaking down, and things didn't work out the way you expected, or the way you wanted as, as Karen, you kept encouraging, God's got this contract. That's God's got this, as you guys work through it, I'd love to hear some of your origin story of what coming to saving knowledge was like for each of you. I'd love to hear just an aspect of your testimony in the beginning of being born again, that has led you to now. And Tim, you're the facilities director of Temple Church, and so you lead a department you lead a ministry that cares for and stewards the resources of this church. Yes. And then Karen, you're one of the very first voices and faces that anyone that comes on property gets to see. And so the level of impact you to have as a couple on the daily livelihood of people bless through the ministry of this church, to glorify Jesus is significant. So I'd love to take it all the way back. Not too far. Because you're not that old. Take it all the way back to the beginning of being born again, and hear a little bit of your story there.
Speaker 1 13:28
Okay, I'll go first, she's looking at me so well, I was, you know, I'm a, I don't want to get too too deep here. But I was the fourth child, I am the fourth child of my family. I'm the baby um, and my parents married when they were young, they, you know, I grew up in a family that went to church regularly, was raised in the church, you know, my parents never divorced, they stayed married, they, you know, they were married for over 60 years when my dad passed away. So they were lifelong mates. So, that's kind of what my foundation was, you know, that kind of a family situation. Unfortunately, that wasn't strong enough to keep me or not, I didn't feel it was strong enough to keep me involved in the church. So I did, I did accept Christ when I was 14 years old at a at a church camp. And, but I didn't follow through when I came back, you know, they didn't, you know, there wasn't any baptism involved. And it was just, you know, it was okay, way to go, you know, back back at church, here we go, you know, life's back in session, you know, Camp is over. So I did all that and ended up kind of going down the broad path of life for quite quite a few years and I'm You know, didn't get away from the church and didn't didn't come didn't go, you know, and, and kind of found myself floundering through life and different directions and different things. And, you know, I was delving into, you know, lots of alcohol and street drugs and things of that nature. And you know, that that pathway of life that was, I would not recommend to anyone, but, you know, along the way, I did find my way out of that into recovery, and up after about 1718 years of recovery, I did find my way back to the church. And, and it was a couple years after that, that I, you know, I thought, well, you know, maybe I should get baptized. You know, I've just like, I've never been baptized, you know, and I, you know, so we went through the discussion with my pastor at the time and kind of told him what was going on? And he's all Yeah, you know, so I, so we we got baptized. I think Kurt, I got baptized on the same day. Yeah, we did. So, you know, that's, that's kind of, you know, a little little tidbit of, of my salvation story, I guess. But, yeah.
Bennett Holloway 16:21
So how much does your experience the way that God used recovery, into drawing you went to salvation, and really the dedication of your life to Him as Lord and Savior? How does that experiential knowledge impact you today?
Tim Lackey 16:43
I think I think it impacts me greatly. You know, I think I live it out on a daily basis.
Before I came to work here, I was working for the Baptists on missions. And we were, you know, working in areas of New Bern, and Chris, everybody knows that there's an area there town where it's not a very desirable location to be. And, and a lot of those places that we worked on, were in those areas. So you know, it's not like, you ever get very far from it, it's just right around the corner, you know, but it doesn't mean you have to go there and live there. And, and, but you can be a part of, hopefully impacting somebody's life for the better. And in those in those places, I think is where we can have some, some, some bigger impact. Because anybody can, you know, just come to church and talk to the people at church and be involved in your church. But when you get outside and get more into the world, you can you can still carry that church with you and and be that Bible that that Maybe nobody's ever going to see. Or, you know, maybe they haven't looked at it in a while. But so I think that's where I try to live my life in that. You know, it's not just something that I carry around with me to church on Sunday. It's something that I take with me every day. You
Bennett Holloway 18:07
live by the Bible. I try. That's it. That's good.
Karyn Lackey 18:12
Me. Yeah. Okay, let me see. I grew up going to church with me there, my grandma and my aunt. We went to, which is the church, my mom and dad were raised in. We went to church went to a very legalistic church. And so I was thoroughly convinced I would never make it in heaven. thoroughly convinced I could not live that good. I do have a rebellious side. I guess my mom. Anyway. So I ended up not going to church. Well, when I went to church camp, when I was about nine, I got baptized, but then there was never any follow through. So when I got as I got older, I, too got involved in alcohol and drugs. Because I it's a child of the 70s. And unfortunately, it was pretty common, then. It's even worse now I think. And when Tim and I were living, Tim was going to college in Fresno, and we were going to school there. Billy Graham came for a crusade. And his cousin commented to me, you need to go because it's a chance of a lifetime. He may never do this again. And my mom had gone when she was a child. So I went Sure why not? So we went and God drugged me down to the front. I am not kidding. And then a couple days later, these really sweet ladies came to the door and invited me to a Bible study and so I went scared that I went and drug my daughter with me when she was only about six I think and realized what started learning what Grace was. And that's what I was missing before is I didn't understand race. And so we went to church for a while. And then when we Tim graduated, we moved to Ventura. I literally went church shopping, because that's what I was told to do. They prepped me for it, they were really cool about doing that. And found this nice little church and just felt welcome and started learning more and more. We were I was in recovery I had gotten to recovery before I met Tim. In fact, that's where I met Tim, funny story is, when Tim and I were both using we knew each other and we didn't like each other. And then we met each other after we got clean and got married. Go figure. No, so Lord had another plan. But anyway, so we started going to this other church. And we started at Celebrate Recovery there. And the people, everyone taught me about grace, or started teaching me about grace, because there's a lot to it. When you're being when you don't understand it, you've got a lot to learn on it, because I kept saying no way. So then when we moved here to Vinter, I'm here to New Bern. I told him, honey, we got to church shop, you know. And we found, we went to two other churches. And we knew it wasn't right. And we walked through the doors here, we were picked up out in the parking lot by our car in a little golf cart, and felt welcome from that moment until we left. I mean, we felt walked in the door, we were welcomed by everyone. I've never been loved on so much. And when we got in the car drive home, Tim goes, That's home. And I said, Yeah, that's our church right there. And we come every sense, because we I mean, there's people in here who talked to me, I don't even know who they are. But that's okay. You know, but that's what made a difference to me is I that's when I really started seeing grace. And we just really enjoyed it every sense.
Tuck Choate 22:01
So, along the way, you know, we always come up with struggles, even after you've fully accepted Christ, you've changed your life for the better. What kind of struggles have you dealt with in the years since that you've had to work through,
Tim Lackey 22:15
I think that it goes back to, you know, when I came back to the church, because I've always believed in God. And I didn't think that I was living a life that could measure up to what God wanted me to do. So that's, that's one of the reasons I quit coming to church. But when I came back to church, and I, you know, it was it was just an almost like, a relief, you know, because I knew what I needed to do and, and to struggle, you know, because I thought I was finding everything that I needed in a, in a, in a program, a secular program that I was going to, you know, I had that God of my understanding, you know, but I knew that wasn't all that there was to it, you know, so, you know, coming back to church and in the struggles that, that we have, that I have, I guess be better said is just acceptance, I think it's got to be like an end. In submission. If I'm just willing to submit to what the day is, and not create something that I want the day to be. My day goes a lot better.
Tuck Choate 23:38
Like, like leaving your phone at home? Leaving
Tim Lackey 23:41
my phone? Oh, yeah. But you know it. So I think that's a big part of it. For me, it's there's there are there are days when, you know, when I when I want things to go a certain way. And I have, you know, I have a plan, I have an idea, I have a thought, you know, and I try to prepare for that. Because I also know that I can't just sit back and think that God's gonna take care of it all. I mean, he will, but I have my part to play in it too. So I have to do, you know, I got to do the footwork. So there's some of that, that that falls back on me. And that's, I think, where I, I get me involved in the problem. Yeah. And that sometimes gets more me than God and that's probably when I get the most problems in my life. So, Tim,
Bennett Holloway 24:30
I'm going through a study right now, working through this exact topic. So Matthew 1128, Jesus's teaching, and he says, Come to me all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. And as it's broken down and To this submission, right, to being yoked to Jesus. And what sometimes people think is that just means you just kind of, you don't put any effort in you just kind of flow and float. But the reality is, is a yoke is meant for work. And so as we are yoked with Jesus, not only are we working, right, but we are yoked and being led by him in the process of doing our day, and that's why it's easy. That's why it's light. And so we all work. It's the same thought process that you just said. So in the mornings, I've been trying to sit there and say, Lord, I'm yoked to you, I yield to you today, I want to be sensitive to what you were doing in the in by the minute. I'm not able to do but I got to break it down so small, so I gotta every minute yield to you. And I learned that through recovery, teaching, surrender, I got this this moment, I gotta give it to you. Every hour on the hour, I need to stop and hit pause and make sure take inventory and just sit and submit to you. And it's the same Matthew 1128. Tim, this yielding? Yep, surrender to Him as He is leading the day. quote
Tuck Choate 26:13
that came to mind is that frustration is birthed out of unmet unmet expectations. And like you said, when you wake up and you have an idea for your day, it's so easy to get frustrated when things don't go your way yet, or as you're traveling from California to North Carolina, and things start coming up. It's so easy to say this is not what I planned. But to be able to give that away and say maybe there was something else for me.
Tim Lackey 26:38
Bennett, you talked about the moment and kind of goes back to when we used to do a mission trip down to Mexico from California, we had a sister church that we would go to in a little town called El Zarrillo. And it was just outside of in sonata it was a very rural night and day living between, you know, where we live at and California and going down there it was, I mean, dirt streets, and literally, you know, waste running down the street. flush toilets for very rare, just a very poverty stricken area. But the pastor down there, I remember the first time I met him, his comment, his first comment to me was Isn't this a great moment? And, you know, I always think about that. And when I when I hear somebody say moment that comes back to me, because, you know, I want to get caught up in the, in the next hour, or the next day or, you know, I I forget about what's happening in the moment. You know, and if I can, if I could be more in the moment. I think that's that's where I think that's where God wants us to be. And wants us to be in the moment and join the moment letting him guide the moment. And and, you know, I think our desire is driven by, you know, Satan who wants to get us thinking about everything else going on what happened yesterday, what you know, the person driving in front of us, and you know, all the all the insanity of this world, and we get away from the moment. So
Tuck Choate 28:22
I've found that recently with with young children is, it's so it's so easy for me to think I can't wait until whatever it is, you know, until they're old enough to do this until taking they can go 30 minutes in a car without screaming or whatever it is. And I look forward to those moments. And my wife and I are always catching ourselves to try and help each other. Say Let's just enjoy where we are right now. Because we're never getting it back. Right now.
Bennett Holloway 28:50
It's good. And Tim to just kind of maybe put a bow on that thought process of yours being present in the moment. A lot of the times where that struggle, maybe for most people is in the anxiety in the we're in the we just finished really touching on three sermons over this topic of be joyful, rejoice. Yeah, be thankful, Be anxious for nothing. It's like wait, what in this world? Is it to go on the way it's gone? How is this possible as we kept on fixing ourselves on the sovereignty in the grace of God, right. It's in Christ, these things are possible. But Jesus also teaches in Matthew 634, therefore, do not be anxious about tomorrow for tomorrow will be anxious for itself sufficient for the day is its own trouble. And so this this idea behind and being present, right now, right here, let us not be divided about what is to come. But a steward Well, right. That doesn't mean flippantly not care about things. But But what is the deep, deep emotion that we're feeling? feeling about that. And if it's any anxiety, fear stress that is contradictory to the very nature of the relaxed Jesus Christ, then then we're likely putting too much emphasis on self. We're disillusioned with the ability to control outcomes. And we need just need to submit and surrender to a moment that he is leading and guiding. And I think oftentimes we I am susceptible to overlooking the moment. It's good, Karen, for you, and your storyline, your your character arc, that we see you as, as you've gone through what you've gone through, as you've testified to this grace that you've experienced, not only personally, but also within the context of church. And really the way that you are involved in temple recovery, the way that you serve, and love every single person that comes through those doors or calls. The way you're so intentional, with even staff members as we walk by just checking in getting pulse checks, how are you doing? How are things going? How are your kids, walk me through some of the ways you would just encourage people that have yet to experience a taste of the fullness of grace that you have, like, walk me through maybe some people that still find themselves? Thinking, they're just not good enough? They're unworthy, they're acceptable? Walk me through? And what would you say to them?
Karyn Lackey 31:36
Well, one thing I do is I've been there, I grew up being abused by a family member, in many ways. And I, I didn't think I was worthy to even breathe the same air as most people. But I have learned that, that that person is wrong, I don't need to listen to their voice in my head anymore. Because I am good enough. I am what God wants, I am who got married. You know, so all the things that that person was saying was because of the hurts they had, that I didn't know about. You know, so through recovery, I've had people guide me through the process of being able to take those negative things and and turn it towards helping people I care about people. I care about those I'm around, I want them to understand how beautiful they are, how wonderful they are, how someone else's opinion doesn't mean anything, only God's does. And he sees us as absolutely amazing. You know, if God cares enough to take me from the lifestyle I used to live and give me at 35 years 36 years old, a wonderful husband, you know, an absolutely gorgeous daughter. I'm sorry, you guys. She's much more beautiful than yours. You know, but yet I still have a sense of independence. I have because that's how I was raised. I was how I became to protect myself. I used to be really sassy. My daughter's the same way I raised her that way. Till agreement. I was pretty bad. But But and know that no matter what God still loves me. You know if I can live through this, the things I went through and still be loved by God no matter what. Anybody can. And then another thing I like to tell people to do is I am so glad those little yellow sticky notes were invented. You're talking about posted? Yes. Because when you when you're having negative thoughts, I trademark I make all my Yeah, I make all my girls, they write something positive on one and put it up where they read. So everyday they read something wonderful, like I am beautiful. I am great. I am I am smart. I am capable. God loves me. You know, and through that one thing that happened we have lost a unbelievably large amount of relatives in a short period of time. Since like 2014 friends and family, I think it's up to like 18 now, and most of them in the beginning was six months apart. And all I could do was cry and ask why. But the thing about it is I could feel God holding me through the whole thing. You know, when it would get rough God would hold me through it, you know? And I learned that that and I listened through that this is when I really found my grace with God. Because at the time I was working in a middle school, and what I would do is is my mother passed away on a Sunday night, and I are like about four in the morning, actually Monday morning. And my brother called me at six and I thought apart. And so first thing I did was say to my daughter, I gotta go to work. And she's like, why are you going to work? Your mom just died. I said, Because I need to be around those kids. And God taught me that, you know, that was Grace. To me, the one thing that really helped fulfill me was watching these, these kids, these middle schoolers, which I know a lot of people think it's crazy, but I love middle schoolers, these middle schoolers, go on with their life and be silly and be goofy, and to know that they they relied on me for comfort. And that got me through it. So that's why I like to give people comfort, because sometimes you don't have anybody, you know, and these, that's what people need, you know, I'm here, I, you know, I'll sit down and talk to you, you can tell me anything you want, and I will not judge you. Because I've been there.
Bennett Holloway 35:49
I've seen it in action I've seen in action. There's been times when I'm in meeting with people. And in a moment, for some reason. It's like, you need to talk to Karen. Right? And so I jumped out, I was like, Hey, can you come back here and talk with her real quick. Because this this, this, this consistent part of your story that I see, I've experienced, and I read in Scripture is this the character of God that's been cultivated in you that that originated from the brokenness of the world that need the total depravity that you found yourself in encountering this love in this acceptance in this grace of God. And now, you've been ministered to by it. And then therefore, you're a conduit of it, right. And so the very thing that brought you up is the very thing that you cannot help but pour out and you're passionate about, I wouldn't be surprised if you seek it out, to be able to share that to people. And so that's something that I see in you. And we're very blessed by here.
Karyn Lackey 36:56
I fought it for years, I kept telling God, I don't want to be a counselor, I don't want to do that. At that yet. People would come up to me and grocery lines and tell me their life stories when they never seen me before. And finally I went okay, Lord. Yeah. And it's just like, he keeps you know, he keeps helping me, you know, but I can't help it. I just, I care.
Tim Lackey 37:17
Yeah, for me, it goes back to that submission thing, because when I submit my weaknesses to God, and realize that I can't, he can. He turns him into strings, and then I can empathize with people. And I could see those things. You know, I don't think that I'm, I used to think I was terminally unique, the things that happened to me didn't happen to anybody else. But I have come to find out that a lot of things are happening to me also happen to almost everybody else on the planet. Yeah. So there's that I can I can relate to people in ways that other people can't, you know, because, in recovery, we found out that, you know, we, we would talk to people that, that went to church, and, and the church at the time didn't know how to deal with people that were in recovery, they would just, you know, just read your Bible more and pray more and, and, you know, God will, you know, guide you and take care of good things, right? What Yeah, absolutely good things. That alone does not take care of the enemy, and the Devils of the things that are in you, you have to submit those things, you know, taught yet to be in. And so I think that's the key, the key difference. I mean, I don't you know, I do believe that, you know, reading your Bible and praying is a good thing, you know, no doubt about it. But, you know, we do, you know, we can we can pray about something in our lives. And God may never, it just doesn't go away. Why doesn't it go away? Do we submit it? Or are we just asking, you know, so I think that's the key is you got it, you got to give it up. You got
Bennett Holloway 38:55
to give it up. And there's something there is something beautiful to being in a group, or being in a community, that has been where you've been, or that can share with you, as you share an understanding of what it means to go through what you've going through, or what you've gone through. So you've got some people that can give you hope, that deliverance is available, right? We can be broken from this, that this God can heal through this, like there is light, right? There's hope. But then on the other side, for people coming into the group for, for people to actually also be that next step of encouragement. And so you're not only getting it, and you're giving it and that's why recovery is so unique and beautiful. And there are attributes of recovery, that that are in should be in the context of general small groups in the life of a church, in community of a church. And if you look at James five and you walk through what it means to to to confess your sins to one another so that you may be healed, right. There's this process of of really digging down, developing a culture of trust, but sharing amongst brothers and sisters in Christ about what we're going through, that I believe recovery does a fantastic job of weaving into the natural fabric of their culture, that all of the church would greatly benefit by, as we continue to do that ministry.
Karyn Lackey 40:21
And one thing that really strongly prays plays into us is that we've gotten to the point in our learning about grace and and what we've learned in church and recovery, that there's times that when I say something, it's not me. It's totally God talking through me. And there's been times when I've done counseling where I've stopped and gone. Let me write that down. I'll never I don't remember. That was good. For me, sorry, that was for me. Yeah. And Tim's even learning that I mean, just just being around me, we both kind of really kind of picked up each other's way of doing things. And it really helps us and sometimes not private things, but sometimes it concerning our own recovery, we bounce it off each other. It's beautiful.
Tuck Choate 41:06
So Karen, I would be remiss if I didn't share it with you, you and my wife are kindred spirits, I believe, gone through some of the same difficulties. Both grew up in California. And then what drew us originally to you was we saw you signing in church and my wife does as signing autographs. Yes, she's very famous. No signing up American Sign Language. And so tell us a little bit about that part of your life. And where that Well,
Karyn Lackey 41:36
I grew up being exposed to American Sign Language. My dad had a brother and a sister that were deaf. And they were both married to deaf people. But I was basically lazy and had my younger cousin interpret for me. I knew the basics, and that was it, you know, but when we did move to county Ventura and discovered how expensive the childcare was there, because of the cost of you know, everything. I went to work, I went down to the school and apply well, they asked if I could work, if I signed in, if I were deaf kids, so I went to college, I said, not enough, I went to college, I got my, my degree, well, I actually ended up they closed the program for I graduated. So it doesn't say in interpreting, but that's basically what my degree is in sign language interpreting. And I was like, in my 50s, I think when I graduated, so it's like, I'm not gonna go take a state test, I'll just work at the school, you know. So I, in elementary school, I worked with a deaf teacher who taught a hearing class. And then I moved up to middle school and I worked as an interpreter, I worked as a what they call the parent educator. So I taught some of the kids with the teacher in middle school, and it's just, it's part of my love, I sign accidentally.
Bennett Holloway 42:55
You know, I'm into a sign a couple times while just talking right now.
Karyn Lackey 43:00
And it's really kind of funny, because when I you know, I'm into a song when I'm worshiping because I start signing. And that comes from the fact that with allergies by voice comes and goes and so my mind, my hands just take over. So yeah, that's that's kind of what we do on on that and, and both you and your wife sign, and then I have to tell this part. And then your lovely wife comes up to me and says the college is looking for an ASL one teacher and I said, I'm not qualified. I don't have a college degree. And she goes, Okay, I'll tell them. And about a month later, she comes up, she goes to the community, people that work at the college are looking for someone to teach ASL. And I went, I'm not qualified. A week later, Karen, they're still looking, I am not qualifying. I don't qualify, I can't do it. I'm not legally can't do it. Because I have certain ways that I have to follow. The third time she came up. I said, Okay, fine. I'll pray about it. And she grinned, because she knew what was gonna happen. So I called my old boss that I worked with, and I said, they think they want me to do this. And she goes, Oh, yeah, you could do it. I go, No, no, no, no, no, no, you're supposed to say no. She goes, No, you could do it. This, this, you know, just do this, this and this, you can do it. You have the passion. So I went ahead, and I agreed, you know, and then I went for the interview, which was actually the boss telling me, how do you want me to set the class up? Yeah, so I was never here. So started in January, I will be teaching ASL one at the college for parents of deaf children, parents, a special non needs nonverbal or people who are losing their hearing. And I'm like, and as I'm driving home from that meeting, God says, that's what I want you to do. You know, and so because now I see that I can disciple, you know, on the campus, which is my plan, and that I can show you know, God's world to people who may not get the other chance to be exposed, and they'll hopefully be coming to church, you know, so I want to be able to do that. I want to be that that Odd teacher at the college teaching about Christ.
Bennett Holloway 45:02
That's right. So this that's a common theme between you two. So this so you just brought this up. And Tim, you brought it up earlier on this idea of like being the Bible, and and being the light on the canvas. And so I would just love to just talk a little bit about what it would look like if we may be changed the way that we saw things and instead of saying, like when I'm at church, I will be this way, or because they're on staff, this is what they're supposed to do. And this idea behind I'm Oh, I'm not gifted in evangelism and sharing the gospel, and yet this command for all followers of Christ to make disciples, and why today, we may find ourselves in a spot to where we've got, we've got about 1000 missionaries that gather every single Sunday morning for church. And these missionaries are in college campuses. They're building construction, they're doing construction for homes and communities that are disconnected from the life of the church, and what it would look like and what it would need for each of us to recognize would it be more outwardly focused from Monday to Saturday? And then how that would change church on Sunday? I would love to hear what you guys think about that.
Karyn Lackey 46:28
Well, you know, thanks to some people here, Bennett, and Darryl Radford, I started reading a book called The Circle maker. And that's a lot of what he talks about. And it's just totally expanded my mind on the fact that, you know, I'm not qualified to be able to teach the class but God doesn't send in the qualified people who are qualified, he sends the people who will do it. What's right, you know, and he's gonna guide me through it. I mean, I told a friend of mine, just call me Peter, I denied it three times, you know?
Bennett Holloway 47:05
rooster crow.
Karyn Lackey 47:08
So, I think that, that, if we go out and we spread the word, and we wear T shirts that talk about God, and we, you know, bless people, when we walk out of a store, you know, I mean, when I leave a room, when I when I go to the grocery store, and I leave, I tell people to have a blessed day. Yeah, you know, when I hang up the phone, even if the person irritated me, at home, I will say have a you know, telemarketer I'll tell them, you know, have a blessed day. You know, I mean, that's, I have to be Jesus with skin on. And that's the way I tell myself. So I mean, I'm not a memorizer the Bible, but I can tell you my feelings. Yeah.
Bennett Holloway 47:43
Tim, what about you? Well, I
Tim Lackey 47:45
wouldn't what came to my mind is, we were involved in a small group back in California at our home church. And one of the first guys that came to our small group was diagnosed autistic, Layton in life. And he was misdiagnosed as younger ages schizophrenic and they treated him and lots of different medications and things but finally landed on this, this this autistic he was on the spectrum. He could not his hit, he could not talk to people in public, he had a struggle talking to people in small groups. Very smart man was very, very well read, he would read books, Christian books, and it would tell him, you know, you have to go out and witness this is what you're you're supposed to do. And he's like, Well, then I can't be a Christian because I can't do that. And, and we had lots of discussions with him about all of us being parts of the body. And, and even though he wasn't able to go out and witness to somebody on the street, what he would do every Sunday morning, he would go to the church early, and he would make sure that all the chairs and pews things were stuffed with the proper envelopes and pens, everything was fresh and ready to go. Everything was picked up. He would fold the bulletins, you know, that was that was what he did. And that was his contribution. And, you know, and he really couldn't, couldn't he he would casually say hello. Yeah, hardly ever had touched anybody wasn't a hugger, you know, not really a handshake or even you get that little nod when he went when you went by. But you know, it was that that communication that that he was, you know, that we were all, you know, maybe he's not the mouth, you know, maybe he's the ear in or whatever, but that we're all parts of the body and that he was actually making a contribution at that level and that other people were not, you know, it was that was that's what he did and many people in the church did not know that that how that was getting done. They would just come in and everything It'll be done. Yeah, no. So it was it was this little thing going on in the back. And, and he was actually part of it, and he didn't have to be, you know, known for it or anything like that. So it was his contribution was was great. But he didn't have to feel like it was great. You know, he didn't think
Karyn Lackey 50:18
the thing with him too is he worked at the, the main library in our town, and he would put the books back on the shelves. Well, this man was a gentle soul. He was just a gentle soul. And that was what people saw in him. And so when they'd asked the librarian, you know, that's bill, these are really, you know, and they would talk about him a little bit, you know, just, you know, good stuff, you know, he goes up to this church, you know, blah, blah, blah. So he was being an influence just by being there. Yeah. And that even though he had a disability, he was doing great. You know,
Bennett Holloway 50:49
I love it. Talk what comes to mind for you, man, as we sit and think about what it would look like, for, for the church, for the people of the church, maybe it is in positions of service or contribution. But also in this, like missional mindset of being outwardly focused of communicating the gospel. In all of the contexts we find ourselves vocationally, or even in neighborhoods, or on streets or in homes, in the network that God has placed us in. But recognizing that network is actually a mission field, what would it look like, from your perspective,
Tuck Choate 51:30
I think the biggest thing is it chains changes the mindset from a consumer to an active participant. And so if we can really delve into the like you said, Monday through Saturday, it changes who we are, versus, you know, coming into church, and absorbing and leaving, and sometimes chatting with the people that you like. But having it be a thing that you do instead of something that you are, and if we can, if we can become Christians, not just on Sunday, when we go to church, but being Christians as who we are, and what we live and what we do with our friends and our family, that we are living seven days a week, I think that changes who we are, when we come to church, as I am an active participant, I am finding ways to make this church better. Instead of what can I get out of it. Because I'm already a Christian, I'm already doing things might as well try and find something, you know to do that betters my family here. And so I think that it changes our entire lives, as well as betters the church that we're here.
Bennett Holloway 52:41
Yeah, there's a degree where I can just imagine Sunday, being less about what I can get out of it and more about celebrating what he's done the rest of the week. Like that, you know, I'm saying this idea behind almost small group, just consumed by the testimonies of what God is doing in the midst of our communities and our mission fields. And bringing with us alongside us, these people that we are praying for that we are seeing come to saving knowledge that we are getting to see healed and delivered and, and all the different things that we've experienced in our lives, the what we've experienced, like what Karen's gone through, but then also what we can give because of what we've experienced by him to others, and we can be that conduit. I can I can, I'm praying for that as a church, that it's more of a worship of Him, and not so much a focus on me. And
Tuck Choate 53:39
I like that, one. If I'm allowing God to shine through me Monday through Saturday, for one thing, I'm gonna get out of the way more and let him to do what he would like to do. And instead of, you know, standing in the way or saying no, when things show up, you know what happened not to get? Yeah, it's fine. But But I think also it changes our mindset, when we are actively looking for how God is acting in our lives, we will see it more because we're looking for it. And that gives us them that opportunity to share and to show to because we we've actually taken the time to see instead of just being blinded to it and going about our everyday lives.
Bennett Holloway 54:19
So a verse that our production manager, Tony just slid me, which I think is beautiful and applicable to all of these thought processes that we have is in Matthew chapter five. And it's verse 16. It says, in the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. You just preach that in a couple of sentences this idea behind living in a way that people can see what he's doing in me and through me all for the glory of God. So it's not about my good works, or how good I am. It's not about how much I obey the rules or or you know, that type of environment that Karen you just described, that you were brought up in, it's more about his opinion, and what he's done, how it changes how I breathe, how I think and what I do, so that he may receive the glory and draw more people unto himself, as we let that light that we've been blessed by shine through us, to the people around us. But in order to let it shine, we got to get out there. We got to go. Yeah, if we just sit and soak and consume, we get that spiritual obesity, some say, spiritual constipation, where we just we don't let it out, man, we just gotta go. And we got to serve. And we got to be locally fixed and surrendered in the moment.
Tim Lackey 55:42
Well, my old church we used to I was part of the counting team. And on Sundays, we would we would count right after church. And we'd ask for, for we had little little tear off on the bulletin, you know, who put your prayer requests down, and all this. And we were pretty small church, if we had 50 people on a Sunday, we were like, Yay, we're rockin, but we would only get maybe seven or eight prayer requests, you know? And I'd be like, what about the other 40 some odd people that are in here, their lives? Perfect. You know, it's like, what what's going on? You know, and it's, it's that whole, you know, we did the the what's the guy with the mask? Ah, the book? Oh,
Tuck Choate 56:27
Phantom of the Opera? No, no, no, no, no,
Karyn Lackey 56:29
there's a, there's a book that's written is talking about the cure
Tim Lackey 56:32
the cure. So we did the cure on it, the cure is all about, you know, the, the grace and good intentions, you know, a lot of people come to church with good intentions, you know, I'm here, I'm contributing, I'm read my Bible, I'm praying. But maybe they don't have grace. They don't understand in on any. So it's, I think there's a huge disconnect there. And, and what I see happening here at Temple is though, in our small groups, we have the ability to reconnect, because we always spend about probably 10 or 15 minutes at the beginning of our, our small group just talking about prayer requests and what's going on in our lives. Yeah, it's good. You know, it's a great time of fellowship and sharing. And, you know, and how's, you know, somebody that might have had something that came up the week before gets brought back, Hey, how's this How's isn't? You know, maybe somebody's facing a doctor's appointment that may have, you know, major, you know, implications in their life, you know, we want to know what's going on. So that, I think is key, you know, we're not really. And I know, some of that makes it into corporate prayer requests and things like that, but, but a lot of that just, it's just within our small group. And I think that's very key to what's happening for for me, especially because I know that my life is not perfect. I need prayer. You know, and I need to pray for others. I think that helps me get out of myself to see that, then when I can help somebody else. And I think that's a big part of what I do is, is, you know, not not looking where I can go out and help somebody so I can look better. You know, but when I can go out and help somebody, it makes me feel better about my myself,
Bennett Holloway 58:17
you know, serving others, praying continually, meeting together, worshiping God. Yeah, living by the Bible sharing joyfully, like these things are the things that you're talking about each every single one of them. Well, to bring us to close, I would love to hear. We'll start with Karen, I would love to hear just closing remarks summary, some of the big takeaways, words of encouragement or something that Lord's put on your heart that you really wanted to make sure that you got to say, or that he got to see through you in this episode. And so we'll go Karen, and then Tim, and then I'll go and then we'll close it out with talk.
Karyn Lackey 59:01
Okay, boy, put me on the spot. You know, the thing that that you know, you were talking earlier about, you know, the things that are going on in the world and how we're all worried about that, and we're all panicking on things and is it in times and stuff? And the way that I look at that now is first off, I don't watch the news. I don't listen to the news. I don't believe the news. Because it's, it's always a person's opinion. But I also realized that you know, what, if the ends of the earth happen tomorrow, I'm okay. Because I love the Lord. You know, I, I want to help others. I want to bring people to the Lord. And it doesn't matter that I don't know. I can't memorize the Bible verses I can't go oh, that's here in the Bible. You know, instead, I can say, Well, somewhere in the Bible, and I'm paraphrasing, you know, so I'm a little more like that person who is lacking the feels like they're not good enough. Yeah, you know, because they realize, Oh, she's not perfect, you know. And I've gotten to the point now that, you know, I don't I try really hard not to ever have a mask on it anywhere. You know. And when I come into church, I mean, I'm just me, you know, and I'm, I'm learning, I'm talking to people, I'm having fun with people, I'm picking on people, I mean, just, I'm having a good time, because I'm in the Lord's house. But I'm also respectful. You know, and so one thing that I, what I try to do is not, or, and what I encourage people to do is to lean into the Lord. You know, because he'll hold you up through everything, trust me, he's held me up for a couple of years now. He'll hold you up to anything. And don't be afraid to tell somebody I don't know, or I don't understand. Because we will, if we don't know, we'll find someone who does. I mean, you know, Ben, it may not even know we may have to go, you know, over to Don at the coffee shop to find out. But it doesn't matter. Because everyone knows what God wants us to know. For sure. And we're all family. And that's the thing about it. And that's the thing we realize, through the holidays for Tim and I who do not have blood family living here is temple churches, our family. You know, when things get rough, that's who circles up. You know? And so, you know, I, to me, keep praying, and keep asking.
Bennett Holloway 1:01:29
It's good. Thank you. Wow.
Tim Lackey 1:01:33
And I had it, now it's gone. She took it, she
Karyn Lackey 1:01:37
that's my job.
Tim Lackey 1:01:41
The one I guess the biggest thing is I need to be myself. You know, I can't put on a facade. And I don't want to do that. I feel led to do the ministry that I'm involved in. And the different things that I do around the church, I feel blessed to be able to be here when the kids are here with the school. And you know, they always, you know, I've been introduced as Mr. Tim. So they always, you know, hey, Mr. Tan, um, you know, there's a few of them that kind of hang out a little bit after school that some of the other ones that I know a little bit better, and maybe a little bit more mischief involved, but you know, their kids, and sometimes I forget about that, you know, but, you know, I just think that this thing that we're doing is a very important part of what we need to be doing. Yeah. So for not to have anything to say I think that's all I got.
Bennett Holloway 1:02:38
I think for two of the things that I would just want to encourage people towards are really emphasize as are close on app is one. Never be ashamed of your story. Never be ashamed of your story. Because Because the reality is, is that you're not the only one that's come through it. And it is in our weaknesses that we can boast. It's, it's in what we've gone through in the storms that we've been doored that give Him glory. That's right. And so as we accept and acknowledge what we've been through, and we're not ashamed of it, because honestly, he's the one that gets all the glory for it, we get the opportunity to share it with the people around us. And I'm not saying go in and just start spewing everything from a mic. Use discernment in your process, but never allow the enemy to silence your story. Because it's in your story, hopefully, that that Jesus Christ is the hero. And so as we share with others, the hope that you can receive, if you find yourself in the moment where we've been, or if you go through the moment or know someone that's been going through what I've been through, then then you will know that God is there, and that Christ will not forsake you, and that peace and joy. And Grace is available through him. So one, I would say don't be ashamed of your story. And then the other thing I would encourage all of us towards is is really that proactive, intentional, outwardly focused, servant hearted, submissive, momentary focus on what Jesus is doing, where you are, and yielding to him. So that means better understanding with the Holy Spirit and being sensitive to his guiding his empowerment of you as an individual, but also allowing him to move through you in a way that bless those people around you, wherever you find yourself. In that, in that mission, field mindset, those are two big things that I was just blessed by hearing. And also I just want to echo as we come to a close.
Tuck Choate 1:04:48
Yeah, the thing that's been on my heart is that idea of family that we spoke about, especially here at Temple if you're a member here at Temple, make sure that you are you're getting into Who were your family as well, that's a small group for the people that you talk to. And if you're not here, wherever you are, make sure that you can find those people that, you know, and that know you. Because we are not meant to be islands, and we just can't do it alone. God has built this idea of family into his church. And if we are missing that we're missing a lot. Yes.
Bennett Holloway 1:05:25
And that's where big churches feel small. And where people need to be felt seen is in the context of small group ministry. That's good. And
Tuck Choate 1:05:36
like Karen said, you know, when we experienced that as well, as soon as we walked in, we felt like we were family. And then we needed to find that specific group. But we felt like that. Yeah. Well, we appreciate both of you so much for joining us today for sharing your stories being open and honest with us. And I believe that you are a blessing the people that have heard this. Oh, thank you. So hope. Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Temple doc. Don't forget to subscribe to the show and to share it with your friends. You also you can feel free to leave us a review. That helps get the show it to more folks who may need to hear the message. You can reach us at Temple dot church or email us at Temple talk at Temple dot church. We look forward to talking to you next week. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Temple talk. We hope that Digging into God's Word together has enriched your perspective and broad encouragement. If you have any questions or topics you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast, feel free to email them at Temple talk at Temple dot church. You can also visit our website at Temple dot church for more resources. We pray God will continue to bless you and your loved ones as you seek Him in Scripture. We'll see you next time on topic.