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Courtside Convo is Impact 89FM's podcast all about the NBA.
And welcome into the courtside convo. I'm your host, Tim Marshall, joined by Martin Gilleski. We have a great episode for you today, starting off with just all the NBA talk around the around the town. And, I mean, first off, it has to be the Detroit Pistons who I think have led two or three episodes in a row, but, I mean, they're worthy of it. They they've are on 11 game winning streak right now, and I'll I'll hand it off to you, Martin.
Speaker 1:I'll let you cook on your favorite team who's number one in the East.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm lucky because this is you know, we're we're usually more Pistons biased for the reasons that are obvious, but now it's like we get to be extra Pistons bias. Like, they are they are the story right now. It's been a blast watching this team. They have played with a consistency and a identity that is almost unmatched among all but the top teams in the league.
Speaker 2:We had recently that Hawks game, which was the win for 11 for 11 straight. That was a pretty big game given the Hawks have been pretty hot recently. Again, the schedule hasn't been the strongest. We play the Bucks tomorrow, I believe. But this is just how it's gonna be in the East, and I'm really happy that we're really racking up wins while we can since I did go ahead and look really far ahead, and our schedule in a lot of February and March is quite hard because that's when we get a lot of our I think we get all of our games against Denver, against OKC, you know, a lot of the stronger West teams.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad that we're playing so well. And, I mean, it's just like you couldn't ask for more. Like, it it's somehow I mean, Cade has been awesome. You know, there there are issues there, but it's like, I'm not gonna complain. Like, Jalen Durin has been more than maybe anyone ever thought he would be, like, in in a real way.
Speaker 2:It's been amazing. So I guess I I almost have not that much to say because everything is so positive that it's it's hard to think of anything.
Speaker 1:Well, I I think one of the biggest bright spots has to be Jalen Durran. He's the leader in the most improved race right now. He's averaging 20 points, 12 rebounds. Just celebrated his 20 birthday, which, I mean, I think we're both 21. That scares that scares me just because there's guys in the league that are at our age and just doing miles better than us.
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 2:he it's he's always been this guy where it's like, you love his place on any team because as we've seen, it's not always quite a given that NBA centers are willing screeners and rollers. And just having a guy who's like very much willing to run dribble handoffs, set really hard screens, roll really hard to the rim, like that's a very useful player and any team wants like a, you know, a twelve and twelve guy like that. But with the amount of ball handling that he's flashed, it looks like it could be a lot more. And you think about 22 being you know, this could very easily be somebody who's coming off of their rookie year. Instead, this is his fourth.
Speaker 2:So this is a guy who that experiment of like getting somebody in the league super young, I think he was he's one of the youngest NBA players ever to like play in their first game. And this is a situation where that deal where you just put somebody in really early and let them work it out
Speaker 1:has Trial got by shitty fire.
Speaker 2:It's and dude, he's enormous. He's so he's gotten even more muscular and there was plays in that Hawks game where he is bouncing dudes off of him. It feels like they cannot even stop him. He got double teamed by Vic Krejci and Oneka Okongwu. Both big guys, both are six eight, six ten, and he has the you know, the the classic big man move, you know, you hit the power dribble, put your back into him, bump him out of the way, and then go up for like a hook or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:It feels like when he pulls that power dribble now, it's like dudes genuinely go flying. He they doubled him and he just split right through him like one step, split right through him and dunked it. And it was like, wow, like he was like trapped. Yeah. There was a play where he he had Jared Allen on him, who's a great setter.
Speaker 2:He power dribbled it, like pushed his back into him and Jarrett Allen like literally flew backwards. Like it's it's insane. In the in the ball handling, did you see him size up Jay Huff do a it's it's an I'll have to show you because he he dribbled it up the floor, had Jay Huff just above the free point, the free throw line, hit him with like a tween behind the back, has he pull up and drained it. Like, I'm serious. It was like, holy cow.
Speaker 2:Like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And the efficiency so far has just been crazy. In November, he's averaging 24.3 points on 71% from the field. Oh, 13 rebounds to go along with that, including a twenty two and twenty two game. Yeah. And he's in the perfect scenario with Kade where people have been com comparing them to Nash and Amari Staudemire.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's a realistic comparison for this pick and roll duo who is taking the league by storm at this point.
Speaker 2:Another huge thing, like you said, with the efficiency, 78% from the free throw line this year. His free throw shooting has been much improved from the 67% he shot last year. And the reason that's such a huge deal is because you cannot keep him off the line. He has had on his drives and there have been a very limited number of them. This is is all small sample.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about like Jimmy Butler level like free throw drawing. He gets to the line about like once for every three drives. So it's it's insane. And when he's making those free throws, it makes it so much more intimidating. He's he's taking seven free throw attempts a game, and he makes almost 80% of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He's at 11 in the last three.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's It's such
Speaker 1:a floor razor too with a guy like that, and then you add Cade to that. And then, I mean, if you look at the rotational players, I think that's one of the thing that things that stands out the most for this team. They have what is it? Seven guys averaging double figures right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's extremely impressive, especially when you're still doing it without Jayden Ivy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The the boost we've gotten from Dennis Jenkins has been a big deal. Carys Levert has also come up huge in a few games. He was basically the reason why we got into several games in which we were down. And Dennis, one play that I've been loving recently is so sometimes and this play is not actually, not a play, but a a thing that happens.
Speaker 2:And it's effective for almost any team that's able to pull this off with a larger ball handler. When Cade gets doubled, like, above the break, like, he's kind of, like, forced into the corner at the half court line, and he'll jump and, like, full two hand pass the ball all the way to the opposite corner to where Dennis Jenkins is. Those plays result in such good results since if you have a guy, and I mean, you know, if he's way above the three point line getting doubled, it's like 30 something feet to Dennis Jenkins all the way in the opposite corner. And when you toss it all the way over to him, LeBron does this a lot for the Lakers. That's a big thing that Austin Reeves plays out of.
Speaker 2:And when Dennis Jenkins is able to attack the floor like that, when it's already so bent, it either gives him a bucket or gets the engine moving that swing swings to a bucket or at least an open shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, he's averaging four assists per game which is something you don't really see out of a a rotational guy like this. And he's also shooting 44% from three, which is a phenomenal rate. And especially when you lose a guy like Malik Beasley to kind of bring that shooting back in with him and Duncan Robinson, who's kind of a streakier player, but it's still working out for them so far. So, yeah, thirteen and two for the Pistons so far.
Speaker 1:Wow. Number one seed in the East. Any closing thoughts on them so
Speaker 2:far? The schedule is gonna get harder, so you have to keep winning. I don't I don't care too much about the streak in particular.
Speaker 1:It's a better streak than the one a couple years ago.
Speaker 2:It's I mean, the streak is great. I'm not complaining. But I'm more like, in general, you wanna look the December, you want to, I mean, by then, what are we maybe five losses or something, like, at this point, like, the rest of our schedule till the December is quite easy and my it's my feeling that you wanna rack wins up and then by the time the next the big games come around, you have the room to like even by right now, if we go 500 the rest of the way, like flat 500, I think we'd still win like 46 games. So, you know, you've set yourself up for
Speaker 1:And that's what the room. That was the total last year. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. 45 was last year, I think. I I think 45. But this is also like, if we bring Ivy back in, you might have, kind of issues with, you know, integrating him. Maybe he's probably not gonna start out shooting that well.
Speaker 2:That's, you know, that's how it is. So the this time being a way you're able to give yourself breathing room, even with players being out of the rotation, is gonna be really important going forwards and obviously as a big arrival moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Alright. So let's head down to the number two team in the East right now, kinda taken at least I'm taken for a surprise when you see the Toronto Raptors as the number two seed. This isn't 2019. This is 2025.
Speaker 1:And this team is back in prominence with three guys averaging close to 20 points per game in Barrett, Barnes, and Ingram. So, yeah, this is kind of a a shocker to me at least. I I I did not predict this team to be a playoff team, maybe not even a playing team. This is
Speaker 2:I can't show was that low, but I I do get what you're saying. I mean, I I don't think anyone was really dying to bet them as the Eastern Conference, like, especially a home series. I I saw them as I I wish we could go back to our rankings. I definitely saw them as, I think, a play in or, like, six seed. No.
Speaker 2:Because I had Detroit at six. I think I had them in the play in, but at the same time, like, you know, a second seed is far cry from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's it's kind of at a point where everyone has actually produced to a better level. Scottie Barnes has taken a jump back up after a disappointing couple years. So it it's a team that has guys that have done it before, even like RJ Barrett. Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1:You can you can see him averaging what he's averaged so far this season. So
Speaker 2:I'm a big fan of RJ Barrett, although he has not been very great so far. I think the big thing with them is they were playing a little bit too aggressive defensively through the beginning. And that defensive style, it would either result in like really great defensive games where they killed teams or teams would blitz them. So it was it was always like a mixed bag. And they've just done a really good job.
Speaker 2:Of course, Darko doing a really good job coaching them up. And the sort of theory that they work with, like, let's have all these wings, let's get all these super long intense players. It does work. When you see it work, it really feels great. And they just had two games recently.
Speaker 2:They beat the Cavs twice, which is really awesome. I mean, that's obviously a great sign. Say they also beat the Sixers just on Wednesday. So, I mean, they're on their own five game win streak, and they also have given the Cavs games and the Sixers games, they have some great wins they can point to and really show that they they are showing something or at least flashing something real.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it it is just kinda crazy. Tonight, they can clinch the first NBA cup spot into the group stages or whatever. They play Washington, so I'd expect that to be a win for them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And was this a case where they gave up on Masai too early? This is all his team. This is basically the team he created.
Speaker 2:I believe that Masai was kind of a mutual parting of ways. I I don't think that it was like a let's get this guy out of him, out of here, especially given I think they like decided to end things and then still let him draft players this year. I don't know if you knew about this. I I do not. No.
Speaker 2:Basically, they like that that was basically it. Like, they they the firing became official directly after the draft. So given they kind of let him finish things, like, I I think there was something else going on there. I don't think that there's beef necessarily. But yeah, I just love this game.
Speaker 2:I I I think you have to talk about Mamou, Sandru, I'm not even gonna pronounce the Mamou Mamouklasvili. I can't do it. But either way Sandro.
Speaker 1:Let's just call him Sandro.
Speaker 2:Sandro. Sandro or Mamou. Mamou is plus 14 when he's on the floor. The Raptors are plus 14. They have very weird I mean, we're early, but they're on off data.
Speaker 2:Some of their players look really great, and the same time, like, Brandon Ingram has a swing on off of minus 15. That's crazy. They're they're plus 15 when he's off the court, and they're minus point one when he's on the court. So it's like, there's just some weird stuff going on, but at the same time, it's like none of the it's not a three point shooting thing where they're all red hot and their opponents aren't red hot. Like, it clearly looks real when you watch it.
Speaker 2:Like, you watch them fly around on defense. Mamu, like I said, insane plus 15 when he's on the floor. Colin Murray Boyles has been giving them good minutes so far. Definitely looks like a really promising rookie. And their bench is just really strong.
Speaker 2:Like, this whole idea of just when you have, like, four good players to start off with, and you can play those guys with the bench so much, you just kind of have talent on the floor at all times. I I really like Scottie's defense so far, and you I you just have to love it.
Speaker 1:So we'll still steal a little segment from Green and White, our Sunday radio show here at Impact eighty nine. Buy or sell, do you think you could would you buy or sell the stake of Toronto being a top four team the rest of the way in the East?
Speaker 2:I'm buying that. You I'm not gonna buy a lot of it. I'm not I'm not selling my others to just buy up on that, but I would buy a little for sure. That's got great potential.
Speaker 1:So right now it's Detroit, Toronto, New York, Cleveland, and then Miami and Philly both sitting there at nine and six. I think Orlando's coming along really well. They're seven and three in their last 10. Yeah. I think they're a team that can They've
Speaker 2:done against the Warriors.
Speaker 1:Creep up there into that that top four. I'm I'm gonna sell. I I just think it's it's also a thing where I think the standings are gonna be so weird this entire season where Milwaukee started out great. They're the eleventh seed right now. So Yeah.
Speaker 1:There'll be peaks and valleys here, and we'll see a team like Toronto get hot and slide up to the two, and then I feel like they could go on a four game losing streak and be the eight seed in a week. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think it's tough because so much of that depends on, like, if Giannis is healthy or, you know, just different health related stuff, specifically with Giannis because I would have expected them to be getting a a top four seed if he was healthy. But he's not right now and I they just lost last night. So, you know, things can turn real fast and I don't know if that was he supposed to be out three weeks they said?
Speaker 1:That how long it is?
Speaker 2:I believe it was two or two to three. But either way, things can turn around real fast especially when you're talking about removing Giannis who is just about everything for the Bucks. Yeah. And the Knicks and Cavs, it's tough to know what's going to happen with them given they're just they're all good. They're they're clearly fine.
Speaker 2:You know, they're third in the fourth seed. But I also think at the same time, no one is super impressed thus far, especially when you compare to the Cavs last season or the Knicks super high expectations. Some of their bench guys haven't worked out to the degree we've thought, stuff like that. It's hard to know if those two teams are gonna kick into high gear and just reclaim the one and two seed like people expected them to, or maybe these are off years. You know, you don't really know.
Speaker 1:I I'm gonna try to give those two the benefit of the doubt when all the outside noise is, oh, why can't you win in the spring? Why can't you win? Like, you have good regular seasons, then don't don't do it in the playoffs. So if this is a type where, you know, it's just kind of a slow start, I mean, look at if you look at the top six, they're the only two teams from the playoffs last year that are in it, or I I guess the Miami Heat, but the piss but like anyone past the second round, they're the only two.
Speaker 2:That's true. I do think that the Knicks, given they also changed coaches, you have to factor that into things, like they'll get better. I'm going to if we're talking buy or sell, if you had to buy between the Knicks and the Cavs, if you had to buy one of them and sell the other, what way are you going?
Speaker 1:I think I'm buying New York and selling Cleveland just because at this point, the Garland health has scared me. The Mobley, if we wanna call it a plateau, has been interesting so Do
Speaker 2:do you wanna get more into that? Into the the Cavaliers Yeah. Yeah. Situation Sure. Recently?
Speaker 1:So, I mean, they just we could talk about this game too, the the Houston game where they went into Cleveland and beat them by 10.
Speaker 2:I would like to queue into that one because that was a a really good game. There's discussion between those two teams.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Kind of a dust up there with who was a Jabari and Jabari Smith and someone else.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. I didn't catch this.
Speaker 1:Or was that a different game? I I saw there was a little little fight. A little spat. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No. It was. Because they were wearing the what's it called? The, like, LeBron uniforms.
Speaker 2:But either way, the big story from this game was Alpren Shengoon absolutely cooking Evan Mobley. He was just getting his shots all night wherever he wanted. I think he is a bad matchup for Mobley. He has a really low base and is really strong with his legs and his his lower body. And as good as Mobley is as a rim protector, Alperin Shengun's made money his whole career bumping people off their spots and getting that hookshot off.
Speaker 2:You know, he he takes those hookshots like a foot away from his actual body to hoist them up there above any larger rim protectors. I think he even got one off over Wemby at one point. Like, he can get them off over anyone. And I just think it was pretty clear that Mobley had a really, really hard time doing just about anything with that. And to that point, Shengun finished in in in thirty eight minutes.
Speaker 2:He finished with 28 points on 58% from the field. Didn't even take a three, but got to the line a lot, 11 rebounds, seven assists. Just an awesome game for him and continuing what he's done so far, but it does kind of show some of the slight concerns people have had with them going forwards.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I think the Cleveland step up or Cleveland just being better this year kinda depended a little bit more on Mobley stepping up and kinda taking control of that backcourt. I feel like the idea of Jared Allen getting traded always gets fluttered here and there. But if Mobley still hasn't been able to really take this step offensively where he can be a guy when Donovan Mitchell's on the bench and he could you could run the offense through him. And we just haven't really seen that so far.
Speaker 1:And I know we're in what what is it? Year four with him because he's in the yeah. He's in the 21 class with Kade. Year five, actually. Year five.
Speaker 1:Excuse me. So there there is a little something there. I know he just he's coming off a defense player of the year. He does bring great value on that end of the court.
Speaker 2:Well, the big thing and any Cavs fan would point this out immediately is, you know, how they're they kind of had big guard pairings?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:His pairing was always not with Donovan Mitchell, the one who's been playing. It's always been with Darius Garland. It was always you would have minutes with Mitchell and Allen and you would have Garland and Mobley. And that's been his guy, the guy who feeds him, you know, gets him his shots, and they haven't had him on the floor almost at all. I believe he only played in one game before re aggravating that toe injury, which is concerning like you said.
Speaker 2:But thus far, comparing him to last year, he's averaging almost this identical amount of points. He's averaging less rebounds.
Speaker 1:That's the big thing, I think. The fact he's not getting on the glass when he is a guy with a huge frame, and you also have Allen there, so you can kind of be more aggressive going after those rebounds, and it's just not there. That that's something that gives me a little bit of worry. Where is he kinda like a Jaren Jackson junior where the rebounding like, he's a big guy, but the rebounding isn't all there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And his his shooting is really where it's fallen. Compared to last year, he was getting fed a lot more looks where, you know, the looks that he was getting were just easier. He's down from 63% through shooting last year, down to 55%, which isn't great, of course. And you look at, like, his usage rate, of course, that's not a perfect stat, but that hasn't changed at all.
Speaker 2:So it just feels to me, like, even though there are times where you watch Mobley and you're just, like, super, super, super impressed by what you can do. At the same time, there are games where on the offensive end, you're just not really feeling him like exert much in the ways that you want him to.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then again, you could play the devil's advocate of all that stuff we just mentioned. They are ten and six and without Garland. And if they do get him back and get rolling again, maybe they could have a little something there. But it is just a little skeptical, especially compared to a Knicks team where I think they're just gonna get better as the season goes on no matter what.
Speaker 2:And truthfully, I'm I'm more on the negative side here. To me, I'm like, I understand that Garland was your pairing, like that was the guy that you ran pick and roll with, that's your top chemistry guy. But it's like, you're telling me you need two really good ball handling guards to be good? Like, you're not, like, satisfied with one and several other really great ball handlers? They're still one of the best shooting teams in the league.
Speaker 2:They he has plenty of space to work with. They've been playing him more than ever closing on his own without Jared Allen, which increases his space. And it feels like at this point, you would really want him to be more confident taking those for himself, but it'll happen. I think They should still be looking to turn around. And like you said, they're looking at May and June anyways.
Speaker 2:They're not as concerned with now.
Speaker 1:Here here is a question for you, and I don't think it's a question many people would have even thought about last year with the guy we just talked about, Jalen Duran or Evan Evan Mobley. Who who would you take right now? Say say you do have a a lead point guard and you need a number two big.
Speaker 2:It's I don't I mean, right now, I'd I'm right now, I'm gonna say I'd still take Mobley, but it's like there's I'm gonna default to sample size here. I've seen Evan Mobley have really awesome scoring playoff games. That's not something we've seen Jalen Durran do. There are certainly there was and still is things that Jalen Durran is just better at than Evan Mobley, and that's important. But I wouldn't give that up quite yet, especially given the sample size with Jalen Durran being a good player on defense is, like, fifteen, twenty games now, and Evan Mobley has a whole defensive player of the year award.
Speaker 2:Will I personally be rooting for Jalen Durin to keep growing and be better than Evan Mobley? Of course. Like, obviously. He's also, like we've talked about, over two years younger.
Speaker 1:That's wild.
Speaker 2:Jalen Durin just turned 22. He's 22 years old in three days. Evan Mobley is 24 years old in a hundred and fifty six days. So I don't know. He could never be better than Mobley.
Speaker 2:That that wouldn't be shocking at all, believe me. But of course, I'll personally be rooting for that.
Speaker 1:I think I'm taking Dern right now. I'm I'm gonna be honest. I I like it. Maybe I'm a little too recency biased, too much on the 15 game sample size as you're talking about. But I don't know.
Speaker 1:There's something about just having a more physical presence down low that I like.
Speaker 2:I think the NBA has shifted in that way where now teams just need that more. There are more guys or more great teams who are looking to just be bruising. And it does seem like that ideal of, like, the really lanky, slim, switchable center has not disappeared, of course, but has diminished so as less like the vision of the future. And now we're kind of like, this is like just another option. Although at one point, it looked like those types of centers were like, that's what you want, period.
Speaker 2:Like, that's the ideal. The only team that's been able to do it amazingly is, of course, Oklahoma City Thunder. Which end?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's, you know, in a lot of ways easier to deal with having a skinnier guy at center when you're able to put just amazing defenders around him.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think we have to do some sort of young young big either draft or just spend an entire episode on them. There's a
Speaker 2:lot of young bigs.
Speaker 1:They're really good right now too.
Speaker 2:Shangun has been I know we we just talked about his performance against the Cavs. This year looks so much better. His
Speaker 1:That opener was against the Thunder. I I know I've mentioned it a couple times. Yeah. That was a great that was one of the best games I've seen anyone play against the Thunder in general.
Speaker 2:It's it's specifically his ball handling. It's went from, oh, this guy can handle the ball like in an auxiliary way, you know, maybe you need like a little bit more extra ball handling, like stuff like that. It's moved from that category into like go bring the ball up the court
Speaker 1:He's there off
Speaker 2:the take it off. Yeah. Like that's I want him to take the ball up the court, run inverted pick and roll, and he looks awesome doing it, like totally awesome. So I've I've been so impressed. He's cementing himself as like pretty probably like a a perennial All NBA candidate or just like All NBA guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think he just missed out last year.
Speaker 2:I do believe he just barely
Speaker 1:He was in there. He was like firmly in there for a little bit, but then just the way things shook out shook out, he didn't get in. Wanna use this as a way to get talking about the West a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'd like to transition.
Speaker 1:So I mean, OKC fifteen and one. I I feel like every episode is just gonna be the same. They're unstoppable. They have SGA who's even more efficient than last year, averaging same points per game at 34. And still no Jalen Williams.
Speaker 1:Still have a delayed timeline on that, but I don't think there's really anything else we can talk about OKC that nobody else has said. Like, it's just
Speaker 2:They're just the best.
Speaker 1:They're just the best. We'll see in May. See in June.
Speaker 2:The gap between them and everyone else is so enormous. Yeah. Well, So enormous.
Speaker 1:It is crazy, but I I will say the number two team in the West
Speaker 2:Wait. Can I ask a crazy question? Okay. Go Just like for a for fun Yeah. One.
Speaker 2:Let's say, in this this is just a hypothetical. The this OKC team is in the East and has no Shay Gilgous Alexander. Do they win the conference? Yes.
Speaker 1:Well, are are we saying No is held?
Speaker 2:Jaylen Williams is healthy. No Shay at all. Just no Shay. Just J Dub, Chet, so on. And they're in the East.
Speaker 2:They probably win the conference.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Because then you you gotta think Chet takes a bigger leap off and like just playmaking wise and all that, and then Jalen Williams, same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The other thing is the defense is better. Like, mean, like not that Shay's again, not that Shay's a bad defender, but unfortunately, he's on the team with the most stacked list of defensive guards of all time.
Speaker 1:I'll raise you another even crazier hypothetical. Say you just split the two teams. You have a Thunder a team and a Thunder b team. Thunder a has SGA and Hartnstein, and then a couple other of those role players where Thunder b has Chet Yeah. J Dub, and then maybe Caruso and just like other other guys like that where it's split evenly.
Speaker 1:They're both kinda even teams. I think both of those teams are you could say both of those are top four teams in the East.
Speaker 2:They're both top they they would both they would compete with the best teams in the in the in the in the East for just about any series. I which is crazy to think. But it's like when you split it in half, it's like, okay, so what's the starting lineup? It's like, I don't know, Shay, Lou Dort, Jalen the the small Jalen Williams or the big Jalen Williams and Hartenstein along with, you know, one of the wings you could maybe say Aaron Wiggins or, you know, I I I I even like divided it evenly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Think you would have to have
Speaker 2:You list that out and you're like, wow, that's a really good team. Like that's that that alone is really stacked.
Speaker 1:I I think you would have one team where it's like SGA, and then you can kinda have, like, maybe the guys lower on the totem pole, and then you just have a stacked, like, role player team Yeah. On the other one. And I think both of those teams are, like, in contention in the East. So, yeah, they are, at this point by far the favorite to win it. I think they're even odds to win the West right now.
Speaker 1:But we talked about Houston who's another team that can come out of the West. How about Denver? I mean, Jokic is another guy where there's not much you can say. He's just been perfect so far this season.
Speaker 2:Every time you think he cannot possibly get better, he somehow manages to be better.
Speaker 1:29, thirteen, and eleven this year. What did you say it was? 72% on his two pointers?
Speaker 2:Like I something something that's inhuman. I Did you watch the game against the Clippers?
Speaker 1:I did not. Oh. Oh. The 53 game? I I actually saw the highlights of that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. It was just like I felt so bad for Brook Lopez.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's It was so upset.
Speaker 2:The crazy thing is I this is like a few times a year, we get a situation where against one really great player, for some reason the coaching staff just decides to go, we're gonna do single coverage. Like we're gonna do the single coverage thing. Make him beat us for all four quarters. Let's see how it happens.
Speaker 1:You know, that's how you get like a Lucas seven point game. Like that that's how those things happen.
Speaker 2:And you look at that game and 55 points, 12 rebounds, six assists, and on a absolutely brilliant 83% from three point land, five threes made along with 78% overall. Like, I that game was so unbelievable. The stuff he was doing to Brook Lopez and the jumpers he would take where he's just facing up from like 18 feet and Brook plays off of him because, you know, if he get if he gets the rim, it's going in and he would just pull it. No rim. Anytime.
Speaker 2:It didn't even touch a net. There for like the first two quarters, he had like 30 points and it hit the rim like twice.
Speaker 1:It's too bad. It's insane. Too bad the wall couldn't defend them. Yeah. Like Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Man, the Clippers are sad and speaking of Well, the
Speaker 2:can't chant through everything. Those shots are so backbreaking because you watch him just swish like seven in a row. It's like, what even
Speaker 1:Yeah. But he so he leads in points, rebounds, assists, steals in his number two on the Nuggets in blocks. So just completely doing it all, just the ultimate backpacking of a single franchise.
Speaker 2:Did you hear and this is for the entire decade for the Yeah.
Speaker 1:He just passed Tatum in points.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He leads the entire league in points, rebounds, and assists and steals for totals for totals for the decade.
Speaker 1:Wait. He he leads in steals too? For total steals.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like not per game. But like like that's like what's that that doesn't seem possible.
Speaker 1:That's Unbelievable. Where We are heading towards a collision course of OKC Denver part two. Yeah. I would love to see it.
Speaker 2:It there's just who else would possibly be beating them?
Speaker 1:It's It's hard to Like imagine anyway. I think you could say Houston maybe has a puncher's chance if OKC suffers some
Speaker 2:injury something, but And we also have to mention while we're talking about them, Cam Johnson who's been getting back into it recently. He kind of had a slow start, which is, you know, tough, but he's had some better games recently against Chicago, 19 points, 50% from the field. He hit five threes, 14 points against the Pelicans again. So that's good because you know you wanna get that guy integrated. And along with him, Tim Hardaway Junior, been flamethrower for them.
Speaker 1:And it's a lot better when you have a guy like Hardaway Junior taking up the Westbrook minutes from last year. Yeah. Just thinking back to that, like Yeah. That is just a testament to Jokic and like how that team was able to take OKC to seven. What is just like those Westbrook minutes were if you go back and watch those games were unbearable.
Speaker 2:I maintain that that series was one of the best series I've ever seen anyone play. Actually, it might be the best. Like, I I I can't remember a time where somebody a team looked so overmatched and one guy brings them so close. It felt like it was everyone against him.
Speaker 1:And then, I mean, I will give Aaron Gordon some credit. He had some great games from that series, but it was like it was a lot of Jokic, a little bit Aaron Gordon, then not a lot else. Like, Jamal Murray kind of got locked up in that series and yeah. It was I I think that's where we're heading.
Speaker 2:One last thing. Nikola Jokic, they are an incredible plus 17 while he is on the court for a plus 21 on off swing for him.
Speaker 1:Only minus four though off is probably the best it's been in decades for
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. Been
Speaker 1:entire Jokic era.
Speaker 2:Valen Chunis has been, you know, obviously a big deal for them. And Jamal Murray looks like the most prepared he's ever been to start the season. So that's it's very positive for Denver. I I think they if I'm a Denver fan, I'm thinking I'm in a very good spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think you have to be confident and like kinda just avoid like, just can't think of OKC that much. You just have to kinda let it play out. There's still a ton of time left. Still like six months until we get to a potential series against them.
Speaker 1:So, yeah. I I think that's that's all we have on Denver really. Is there anything else you you got there? Wanna go through let's see. We got a little bit of time left here.
Speaker 1:Is there anything else that's really on the tip of your tongue when it comes
Speaker 2:to The West specifically?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Just the West.
Speaker 2:Well, there is a very important player who played his first game of the season recently.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. That yeah.
Speaker 2:LeBron James debuting for the Lakers. Crazy that he came back this quickly after sciatica. From what I've heard, sciatica is not an easy injury to deal with. Like, that's something that for people well, normal people who are not LeBron James with, you know, the incredible health staff I'm sure he has, get take a lot longer to get over, but he came back. I guess, you know, just kinda looks like you would expect, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:It's it's good. He's still just kind of old, which is tough. But yeah. I mean, what else is there to say?
Speaker 1:11 points in that game. He was he had zero points in the first quarter and I I was with a couple buddies and I was like, are we gonna see the end of the because I I thought he was gonna be on more of a minutes restriction. He ended up playing thirty minutes in that first game. Yeah. But I was like, is this the game where the streak comes to an end?
Speaker 2:Well, I think he he knows. Had the he had the hit times.
Speaker 1:There's been games where it's like been a blowout, and he's checked in himself in in the fourth and just just to get to that 10 threshold. But, yeah, adding him into this this equation with Luka and Reeves, you you see a guy like Deandre Ayton benefit from LeBron being back. Yeah. It's a team that's kind of rounding into full force and you probably make another move or two on the margins at the deadline. And you can say, hey, this is a team that probably doesn't have that upper tier when it comes to ceiling, but I don't think there's two other players you would want to have in a player in a playoff series than Yeah.
Speaker 1:Luca and LeBron. Because we are still only two years removed from Luca winning the West. Yeah. Like he he did beat OKC. He did.
Speaker 1:They were the ones he they were young and they had some flaws then.
Speaker 2:It does feel like it's unfortunate because no matter who you're talking about in the West, it's just like, yeah, I just don't think they can beat Yeah. Those guys up top. It's so hard to have hope. But that's where those first This team's really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's where these couple playoff series, like, the your path is gonna be so important because, like, if you can somehow just, like, beat down a team before getting to the conference finals and just the way things shake out, you'll always have a chance. And I think that's one other thing we have to think about. When was the last time, like, the true favorites got out of both conferences? Like, was it?
Speaker 1:It might have been like the last year of Golden State Cleveland.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because I'm trying to think yeah, that might be the last time. I I guess it depends what you consider favorites. Like, when it was Celtics Mavs, I know the Mavs weren't favorites, like They were like fourth or fifth. They were were they fourth or fifth?
Speaker 1:Alright. Yeah. I guess it was kind
Speaker 2:of like a nerd take to have them winning the West.
Speaker 1:Like Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. By the time the playoffs started, it was kind of like there was like a seg a certain section of Twitter, like NBA Twitter, who was like really all in on Mavs winning the West. But like you said, they weren't like odds on.
Speaker 1:Because I think that's when Denver was still nobody had seen Denver lose and
Speaker 2:Denver had a a better odds. I think I think OKC probably did at that time given they were the one seed, maybe the Timberwolves. But I mean, I don't know. It's it's just hard to I can imagine them competing with Houston. I can imagine them for sure competing with Denver.
Speaker 2:It's past that that it's difficult. And if they're gonna be, like, let's say they make this four seed, which would be a great outcome for them, like, that's what I imagine will happen. The four seed would be a great outcome. Let's say, you know, the first round they're playing the Spurs, like I they're probably gonna win that
Speaker 1:series to be tough. Tomorrow. It'd be
Speaker 2:an awesome series. But the thing is after that, then you're gonna have to go through probably the Nuggets and then the Thunder or something. Some combination of that and it's like, I just don't think that's possible to beat either the Nuggets or Rockets and then beat the Thunder after that. That feels absurd.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's where like, that two seed's gonna be big to kind of get home court and get Yeah. Not having to face, like I mean, at that point, you really do have to face all of them, though. Like, I wonder what the odds are to say those are gonna be the final four teams, like in the West. I guess they would all have to kinda stack up that way.
Speaker 2:Likely It's that though I think it's very very likely that those are the final four.
Speaker 1:Unless they play each other. Yeah. I I I'd agree with that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, in that scenario, on one side of the bracket, you would have Oklahoma City and the Lakers. And on the other side, you would have the Nuggets and Rockets. And for one, Nuggets and Rockets would be an awesome series. But it feels like for the Lakers specifically, like for the Nuggets, if you're like, we can beat the Rockets and then get OKC in the conference finals, maybe that's doable. But for the Lakers, the fact that you have to get to o because there's no way OKC loses in the first round.
Speaker 2:Like, that's
Speaker 1:No. Just Yeah. That that's That's a four o.
Speaker 2:Could could like a crazy injury happen and like somehow by the grace of God they get upset in the second round?
Speaker 1:Maybe. I'd like to kinda see Golden State there. I feel like a one eight Golden State, like, there's maybe one game there's like, you get a Steph game, you get a Jimmy game, maybe you can push it to six.
Speaker 2:They would bludgeon Probably. Golden State.
Speaker 1:But then again, there is a thing with the Thunder in the playoffs. Like, they haven't they have they did win last year, but like Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's true. That's fair. I I think that that's that's the thing that I'm I'm on the side of like, I just that whole like issues with their offense, I just don't think that'll happen. Like, just flat out, I just think they'll be more confident about everything. And you add in hopefully J Dub not having a bad wrist injury.
Speaker 2:But having the the Thunder in the second round would be just a really difficult series to get out of.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that that's where that yeah. Top three comes into play. You really you you wanna avoid OKC there. So wanna do a little NBA cup?
Speaker 1:Just we have a big slate tonight. Wanna just run through it? Of course. Okay. So starting off tonight, my Boston Celtics are playing the Brooklyn Nets who are two and twelve.
Speaker 1:MPJ, do you wanna toss out your MPJ take?
Speaker 2:That was I see, that take isn't even good enough that I wanna toss it out.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I was I for context, I I mentioned that I don't hate the idea of potentially the Pistons trading for Michael Porter junior given the whole, like, you know, not a super expensive contract, shorter, wouldn't be that expensive. Like, if we were but that's neither here nor there.
Speaker 1:Alright. He's average averaging 24 this year though. He it is his his team now.
Speaker 2:I would I'm just gonna say, I would rather us not do any trades. Like, I'm I'm not putting my vote in for that. Let me make that clear, but just saying.
Speaker 1:Alright. They play the Celtics night.
Speaker 2:I think
Speaker 1:Celtics are favored by 14 and a half. I think this is a clear Boston win.
Speaker 2:I think we'll take Boston on that one. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Pretty easily. Jaylen Browns looked good. Up next, Indiana Pacers, Cleveland Cavaliers. Pacers are two and thirteen. Play the Gunna song.
Speaker 1:They're getting to Banta or at least a top three pick. That that's for sure. We can go Cavs here.
Speaker 2:I'm happy just quick note on the Pacers. I'm happy they're just tanking.
Speaker 1:I am too.
Speaker 2:This is the good like, this is what they should be doing. Go get that pick and get somebody really great. Tyrese is still young. By the time this guy's in his third year, it'd be a great duo.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you add and then, like, it kinda adds takes less off Nehmhardt, takes less off Matheryn where a guy like you might not yeah. Even have might not even have to pay a guy like Matheryn or something like that where you can kinda stay under this in in this luxury Yeah. Tax
Speaker 2:That's a very good point.
Speaker 1:Or go out and spend on a big.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say, yeah, they they're good on cap right now. And like you said, if you get a really good rookie, you can be like, we have more money for other places or we can just stay under the tax for longer.
Speaker 1:Totally. So I think we can Agree on the Cavs. Yeah. Cavs there. Another one.
Speaker 1:I mean, jeez. The the bottom is really bottoming out this year. That's something
Speaker 2:Well, we have another.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's what that's what saying. Washington Raptors. Alex Tsar, I've liked what I've seen from him. I I will say that.
Speaker 1:But yeah, this is another one that's 13 so the first three games, the spreads are 14 and a half points, 13 and a half, 13 and a half. Cool.
Speaker 2:We we we have we have players only meeting versus great story in the East.
Speaker 1:So we'll go Toronto there. This is actually an interesting matchup. Miami Heat versus the Chicago Bulls in Chicago, slight favorite to Chicago. Norman Powell has been balling out in Miami.
Speaker 2:Slight favorite to Chicago.
Speaker 1:Two and a half points at home. I I think it's kind of the home thing. I'd say they'd be even
Speaker 2:Giddy is back. Correct?
Speaker 1:Excuse me?
Speaker 2:Giddy was out for a little bit. I believe he's back.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think he is back. Okay.
Speaker 2:I want the beat on this one. I was even before I heard the odds, I was feeling heat for sure. I just Yeah. Don't know. I I just that's just what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2:I think the Bulls are just they are overrated still, and I think the Miami Heat are somehow underrated. I if you check out net rating stats, they're way up there. They've been playing really well.
Speaker 1:One of the maybe a little aspect here, Miami two and two and five on the road, Chicago five and one at home. Just something to think about there, but I am also gonna go with Miami in that game. Moving on, New Orleans at Dallas is the game I kinda like for the night. Two and thirteen verse four and twelve. Dallas is the favorite.
Speaker 1:I'm going New Orleans because bye guy Derek Queen, 30 ball against Jokic.
Speaker 2:Wow. AD is out. Cooper Flagg is hopefully returning from Yeah. His He's Hopefully, he got some Nyquil or, you know, whatever it might be. I don't know what he was sick with.
Speaker 2:You do have Gafford and Lively playing, I believe, because Gafford missed the beginning of the season. I think I'm still gonna go with the Mavericks. I think it'll be I would love to see the Peles win this. Without Zion, it's tough, especially given Derek Queen, as good as he's been, six nine center playing against super huge back line, it'd be tough.
Speaker 1:I'm they they've just had some tough opponents recently, but I think they are kind of starting to figure it out with Fears and Queen, two rookies who are just kinda getting their feet wet. They kept it within 10 points in the first half against OKC, which is I'm gonna consider that a win. Yeah. They kept it really close against Denver. I think that was a tied game going into the fourth.
Speaker 1:And then they also played Golden State Like, Lakers Golden State, Thunder Nuggets is their last four. They've lost all four of them, but I think tonight's the night they get it.
Speaker 2:That'd be good. Quick fact on the Mavericks. This is interesting. The Mavericks have they are basically the equivalent of last year's Orlando Magic. They have the number three defense in the league right now.
Speaker 2:111 points for per 100 possessions. And they are the only team in the top 10 easily to have a top 10 defense and a negative net rating. They have a minus 6.3 net rating despite the number three defense. Yeah. That offense The next team to have, like, if you go down the defensive rating standings, the next team that has a negative net rating with, you know, whatever their defense is, is the nineteenth place Memphis Grizzlies.
Speaker 2:So every team in the top 18 of defensive rating has a positive net rating other than the Mavericks. That's how bad their offense is. Their offense is so awful. It's the worst in the league by over a point. The Washington Wizards offense is three points better per per 100 possessions than the Mavericks.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They need Kyrie back. I don't think that's gonna happen until at least the start of 2026. And even then, it's like, what are you gonna get from a guy coming off an ACL tear like that? Yeah.
Speaker 1:As he gets a little older, so it's
Speaker 2:It can't get any worse than the worst offense in the league though.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And hey, they own their first round pick, so Yeah. They maybe just continue to tank. Who knows? Cause New Orleans doesn't, so they they need wins.
Speaker 2:True. Alright. So we have another it's funny that you called the the matchup between the Pelicans and the Mavericks a big game, because we have another game on the slate tonight that's like enormous.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That that one's out. Should we go to that one now, you think? Yeah. Alright.
Speaker 1:Denver at Houston, two teams in the same NBA Cup division. Have they played this year yet? No, they have not. So this is the first matchup between the two. This is good.
Speaker 1:This is a banger of a game.
Speaker 2:Yeah. European big showdown.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Jokic versus baby Jokic. Come on. That's like is what they say.
Speaker 2:And baby Jokic has been not quite so baby this year like we've said, especially since we have a few players out on Denver's side. Houston is mostly healthy healthy other than Dorian Finney Smith.
Speaker 1:Aaron Gordon is actually a game time decision or probable now with the hamstring. So he will be back. Yeah. Also Jabari game time decision, same thing with Steven Adams. So saying all that, Houston is the two and a half point favorite at home.
Speaker 1:So Wow. Slight edge there for Houston.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna oh, this is so hard.
Speaker 1:This is such this is a game where it's just like, I don't even wanna I don't I don't think I'm gonna have allegiances going into it. I'm just gonna watch it and just Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just the hard thing is the two questionables or probables are Jabari Smith and Steven Adams. That's a lot. That's a huge deal. If they are with both of those players, I would be betting on Houston to win this, especially at home, and especially the way Jabari Smith's been shooting. But without even one of those players, I think Denver wins it.
Speaker 2:And I think Denver has a chance to win either way, of course.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Two thirty five the total there. Maybe I'll just put something on the over and just root for points.
Speaker 2:It's hard to root or it's in any of these, it's hard to pick against Jokic. Like in any time, it's so hard to be like, I think for, you know, oh wow. I for sure think that the the Rockets are gonna be able to take down Nikola Jokic. It's it's just so hard to think in any given game, somebody's gonna take that guy down.
Speaker 1:Alright. Minnesota Timberwolves, ten and five. Phoenix Suns, nine and six. I think that's one of the interesting subplots of the season where it's just like Devin Booker and Grayson Allen Yeah. Dropping 40 balls every other night.
Speaker 1:And Dillon Brooks. And Dillon Brooks. Yeah. At two thirty bombs. So Grayson Allen's actually out out for this this game.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna go Minnesota here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Without Grayson Allen, I think they lack the firepower. I'm taking Minnesota.
Speaker 1:Alright. Thunder at Jazz, Thunder, keep it moving. That one's a 16 and a half point game. These are like football
Speaker 2:I'm be honest, like, it's crazy that the favorites isn't higher. Like, they should be favored by like 30. Like that's that's
Speaker 1:not enough. Especially in in an NBA cup game because you're incentivized. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Was gonna say, you're incentivized for the points. Like maybe plus 16 or minus 16 is assuming that they like win by the end of the second Exactly.
Speaker 1:And sit. This might be one of those games where instead of just coming out with the blitz, they'd like SGA plays in the fourth. Like wow.
Speaker 2:That's, you know, that's
Speaker 1:rare. That's that's some good value right there. That that's something we should keep in mind. Yeah. We'll keep you posted on that one for next week.
Speaker 1:Trailblazers at Warriors to close it out. Warriors are That's five and o at home this something that's a little Big nuggets. A little interesting for me.
Speaker 2:This is a like, I don't wanna say a trap game, but like this just feels like the Blazers are really like this could be a good one for them to come in here and win. They are not playing well in the last few games. They've lost four in a row, but we know they're good. They have a great defense. They beat OKC.
Speaker 2:They have Daniavdia. They have you got Toumani Kamara, like, I don't know. And after watching the Warriors lose to the Magic, it does seem like they have been struggling with size, which is, you know, not shocking. And sometimes they don't seem to struggle that much, but there are specific teams that are able to take their size advantage and really make it work for them. And I think Portland might be able to do that here.
Speaker 1:My my little reasoning with them, they're an old team and that little two game stretch against Orlando and Miami back to back at the end of a long East Coast road trip.
Speaker 2:That was true.
Speaker 1:They've had a little or they haven't really even had a little time. They they flew back yesterday, now they play today. I don't know. It it is a spot where it might be a little tough for them, but I like that five and o record at home. I'm gonna go Golden State.
Speaker 2:That's fair. I think they had a Steve Kerr actually was complaining about the road trip. In one of his press conferences, he was talking about how tough it had been. So, you know, maybe that does of course, it does play into it a lot. I don't know.
Speaker 2:We'll see. I think I'm I'm gonna be pulling for the Trailblazers, but I do understand the the Warriors being favored.
Speaker 1:Speaking of travel and all that, wanna close with a little just the injuries thing that's been going on and now the NBA is reporting or Shams is reporting that they're gonna be looking into it and trying to maybe fix it. Are you in favor of a shortened season? I am. I am as well, and I I think it just comes down to what is the point that I like I don't think the owners are willing to give up 10 home games a year. Like that is a sizable amount.
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 2:would love for it to be a little bit more like I just think it'd be nice if you made it a little bit more like baseball in the way that there was more games in your division and kind of an even more even spread throughout the other divisions. And having less games in general, I just think in in terms of like a viewing standpoint of just all these games feeling bigger, when we have as many national TV games as we do, removing games would just allow like a greater percentage of the games to be on national TV, which I also think is a bonus.
Speaker 1:And especially if you're playing the same team four or five times in a year, that, like, those will be games that matter more just because you know that team. And, like, I I think the baseball style, like, two games in the same place, that's been a success gotta mention that. Cause like that Spurs Golden State one we saw last week was awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, it's fun when they're good teams, but like That's true.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Back to back games. Yeah. When it's like Charlotte and Washington.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or if it's, know, I don't like like exactly what what might you think. It's like, you look at the schedule, you got like Toronto at with at the Wizards like twice in a row. It's like, alright, like
Speaker 1:And it it is so tough because all the strategy is pointing to we have to play quicker, we have to cut more, we have to do all these things that put wear and tear on these bodies, and we've seen it already that did you see that graph where it's the average amount of star players, the percentage is, like, down to, like, 60 right now. It's the lowest it's been in a few years. Yeah. I I think it does come down to they they will have to shorten seasons or maybe and like the other thing is the way that these the league has kinda become like so like, there's a lot more talent and a lot more depth. Maybe it is just like your star player plays like thirty minutes a night.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's that's the thing is that like when you have it's a combination of so many factors. Have you ever watched or how much seventies basketball have you watched?
Speaker 1:I I've seen clips. I've seen a lot of it's very slow. You dribble it up, you get set. Or you or I'm talking, you're saying seventies is when it was quick? Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're on the the opposite side.
Speaker 1:Opposite end. Well, and then it got slow.
Speaker 2:Obviously, it depends it depends what, like, year, you know, the seventies is a it's a long time. The seventies and I think it's if I remember correctly, like the late seventies specifically had a really high pace and if you watch like those games and that's comparable to what's happening today. The reason that there's added stress is specifically the how do I say it?
Speaker 1:Like, stopping starting out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's the closing out. Mhmm. Like, if you look specifically, like, the way that all these players that have torn their ACLs tear them or, excuse me, Achilles, that sort of like you're coming you're standing still and you start to run-in a you know, you're accelerating, that idea with the closeouts adds so much. It's so difficult to do that all the time.
Speaker 2:When you look at when they were when they were running a lot, the the reason that was kind of like bearable was because they were able to basically just be rim to rim. They're not going rim to three point line to other three point line back to the other side of the rim,
Speaker 1:you In short spurts too. Was kinda like, you go and then you go back. Instead of, yeah, making all these quick cuts with the ball passing, like, flying around the whole side, like, end to end. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're right. I I think the other thing is the increased usage in general. Like, there's the the strategy of being your star player if your star player is the guy who kind of drives everything, when he's on the court, like, make him drive everything, you know, that has been increased in terms of the percentage of ball handling, pressure that they have to deal with, so on and so forth. And of course, it it's not saying that, you know, there used to be more pure point guards, but there's also now you have a lot of guys who are your point guards or also your scorers or also your defenders, you know, it it gets difficult. It's tough
Speaker 1:to game plan for that. Like, you you can't lay off anybody anymore and kinda take defensive possessions off because you get one back screen and it's a wide open three. So
Speaker 2:Just to give you a good idea, the pace was way at its highest in like the sixties. Mhmm. They I mean, that was like no three point line. They were just spreading around.
Speaker 1:That was just Bob Coosey just chucking it off the back.
Speaker 2:And interestingly enough, it's like most of the time gone downhill since then. That's why we point to the seventies being like kind of the first like modernish era where we kind of have all these stats and a lot more footage and stuff and a three point line for some of the seventies. But it was still in that higher pace like taking from the sixties and so. And I don't know. I I think people do need to remember that a lot of these orders of, you know, staying and resting are coming from coaching staffs.
Speaker 2:This is not something that gets talked about. A lot of times, it's not players deciding they wanna rest. It's it's really off more often than not health staffs doing that. But I don't know. I just hope that something can be done about it, because right now it feels like we're kind of moving in the wrong direction and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.
Speaker 1:And it is crazy where, like, if you look back to like the seven seconds or less Suns, like that was the name of the like, that's what they were deemed. Now every team is basically seven seconds or less. Yeah. It's I mean, it's a strategy that worked, but we've kinda seen it now it's paid off with a much quicker game that sometimes ends in injury, which kinda sucks because we wanna see the best players play.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's frustrating. The pace is part of it and you have so much else too. Just having more more placed on the best players and in the addition of being the proliferation of targeting the opponent's best players on defense. So now it's like, if you're the best player, we want you to do as much as possible on offense cause the more you're doing is the better.
Speaker 2:But then also, they're gonna try to put the most stress as possible on you on on the defensive end. And I mean, it's hard to tell, like, you know, I'm I'm not an NBA player. I was also not an NBA player in the eighties. Like, I I wish I could have something on, like, oh, like, people prepared better back then or, like, there was this that they did that made them better. There's people who who say that it's because back then they didn't play as much basketball in the off season and it was more like strength and conditioning, and that's what really helped them.
Speaker 1:What do you think about on the fly subs? Maybe that's something that they could do to kinda ease the tension, like offense defense splits.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like hockey subs. Yeah. I mean, hell with the amount of fouls we have, they really can do that if they want.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, at this point it is like every other possession. But I I feel like that would be kind of a cool thing where like you have to go and run-in, run out.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I I I Does that really solve the injuries though? I don't really know.
Speaker 1:On like you're not playing defense, like if you're just not playing defense or like just kinda only playing twelve minutes like split, like I don't know. That makes it something
Speaker 2:because then are people like targeting you in transition when you're trying to sub out? Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Or maybe you can only sub out on offense and
Speaker 2:then like Something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know. I think it's something to think about because they have to get
Speaker 2:They gotta get creative with
Speaker 1:They have to get really creative. I think there will be some rules changed just because the game has changed so much in the past decade. And Yeah. Obviously, I think a lot of it is for the better. Like, it is a very entertaining product, but there are some major major flaws.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And we saw this with the NFL where they changed the kickoff routine. Yeah. Like, it's there are things that are happening in sports. MLB changed a lot of the pace of play rules recently.
Speaker 1:Like, they're with the modern analytics that have kind of shifted things, this is a way that you kind of have to restrict those changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I what's your opinion on the I just lost it. Hold on.
Speaker 1:Was going What to was it referring to?
Speaker 2:About about the player injuries. The there's there's one of the theories that I'm it just was just about to say and now I've lost it.
Speaker 1:Alright. Either way, I If you can't find it then I don't know. Maybe we'll get to it next episode if you if you can somehow find it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's gonna bother me. I was going to the the last thing I wanted to get on was the depth of the league, and if you thought that had anything to do with it, given we've talked about how the ranks of the players when you're talking about 30 through 50, like if that plays into it, and I just remembered my comment. The way we draft now is a lot different in terms of there is a higher share of one and dones, there's a higher share of players that are basically coming out of high school or other pro leagues, and teams are more likely now than ever to pick for a lot of upside, where they're picking guys who are, like, really raw, like, super athletic, tall, really lanky guys and just being, like, all in on upside. And the way that we pick guys, whether or not that has makes a difference in their injury concerns given we're picking, you know, the most athletic, you know, youngest guys possible and putting them in these tough scenarios.
Speaker 1:No. I I think that's definitely part of it. When you look at how everything a lot of their decisions nowadays are made analytically. Yeah. And analytics do have a blind spot for these injuries and the wear and tear.
Speaker 1:Like that's not something that really gets put in the equation when you talk about a guy like I hate to say it, but a guy like Wemby where he's a freak of nature Yeah. At seven foot five. Sure. He he is a great player, but, like, there is a lot of injury concerns there just with the sheer size of him. So I I think there is something there where it's they are getting asked to do a little bit too much just for the capabilities of the human body, like that's what it is, like Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's where it comes into play.
Speaker 2:So I think if I if I can wrap it up, the few things to remember is that I will never be of the opinion that other than in very specific scenarios, this has anything to do with the players themselves and their decisions. Oh, no. These guys work amazingly hard on, you know, trying to stay in shape. And when you hear stories from players firsthand about how difficult it is dealing with injuries that you just can't get rid of no matter what, it sounds like the worst thing imaginable. And I think the basically, the increase of just about anything, the amount of things that we take to the extreme has just made it difficult for everything.
Speaker 2:But I hope that we're able to either make schedule changes, personnel changes, or maybe things even out with, you know, going from injury prone players to kind of valuing other things.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. And I think that's the other thing where, like, Kevin McHale played on a broken leg. Like, you just can't do that nowadays because you would get targeted every single time down the floor. Yeah. It wouldn't
Speaker 2:even Well, be your medical staff wouldn't let you in the first place.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm saying if, like, hypothetically, say they did let someone out there with a broken leg, they would be cooked on every they would mean every single action known to man. And it would be a bloodbath. They would lose that game 10 times out of 10. So that's where it's like you're better off like, team is better off
Speaker 2:not playing you. This happens a lot with Embiid where, you know, even when he's been healthy this year, he can't really move that much. And you just notice it where it's constantly, like, get him out, bring him out into the paint. He doesn't wanna defend in space, and it's like every guard in the league can get around him in a snap. And that's tough.
Speaker 2:I it it all plays into it. But we hope they're able to fix it and make a better product going forward.
Speaker 1:Alright. That's all we have. Happy Thanksgiving. I don't think we'll do an episode next week, but happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:And then we'll return in December. So we are really getting into the swing of things here. There'll be more NBA cup stuff. Maybe that's when we'll really get into that just because that'll be the talk of the NBA by then. But for now, that's all we have for this episode, and we'll see you soon.