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Hosted by SRPMIC Assistant Community Manager, Lena Jackson-Eckert, this podcast takes a closer look at the programs, services, and people that help shape our Community. From everyday resources to unique stories and conversations, we’re here to share what matters. So let’s go ahead and zoom in.
Content warning. You may notice a different tone in these next few episodes of Lena's Lens. It's a little bit of a change of what you're used to. It includes discussions on grief, trauma, and other emotionally heavy topics, as well as profanity. So please listen with care.
Lena:Welcome back to Lena's Lens. I'm Lena Jackson Eckert, Assistant Community Manager for the Salt River Pima Maricopa Indian Community. You're listening to a special miniseries featuring the Therapeutic Writing Program at the Salt River Department of Corrections, a twelve week class created by Councilwoman Suk Fowaldar and supported by our Behavioral Health Team and Reentry Services Supervisor, Nicolette Parrish. In our first two episodes, you heard the individual readings, powerful pieces written during the program that explored identity, grief, addiction, and the cycles they hope to break. Today, we move into the group conversations.
Lena:This Roundtable features Adam Jackson, Wayne Butler, and Eric Wood. During this particular recording, I chose to sit back and observe. Councilwoman Fullwilder led the group. We wanted this conversation to remain as authentic as possible to the environment these individuals are used to, Their tone, their flow, their comfort level with one another. Let's join their Roundtable.
Su:k:So here we are doing the podcast finally. I'm glad that you guys are all here, and I'm thankful that you guys all took this class and that you shared. And so who do we got here today?
Adam:Good afternoon. My name is Adam Jackson senior.
Wayne:Wayne Butler.
Eric:And I'm Eric Wood.
Su:k:So I just wanted to thank you guys for taking the class and sharing all the words that you did, your artwork as well, Eric. And I wanted to ask what's something that you're taking away from this class? What stuck out to you or something somebody may have read or just feelings you got from the class?
Adam:For me, it's been it's been worth taking. Like, I can relate, and I know that yeah. Like, it it said before, like, to reiterate, we're not alone. And, like, we've all lost somebody in our family, and we've all felt alone. Some of us are dealing with addiction.
Adam:And, yeah, so it's been a good class. And I yeah, thank you, Supe.
Eric:What I took from this class and what stood out the most was, like I said earlier, it's it really made me realize I wasn't alone, even though it wasn't the exact same thing that all of us are going through, but simply meeting people for the new like, for the first time, like, there was so much in common. And with Brian, I he lost his mother too. And simple as that. Like, I felt like a giant connection to him. And it was like one of those arms being put on you, like, oh, we understand.
Eric:You know? And with the guys like Edgar and Nate, you know, they talk about, you know, their grief and how they're trying to connect with their kids. And I always had a rocky relationship as well with my dad growing up. And, you know, it took a long time for my dad to let me know that he cared still. It just meant so much when he finally made me realize, you know, you know, I did everything.
Eric:I know I'm sorry, but, you know, now I'm here. And it really meant a lot, you know. So hearing that from them and their journey, it's it's like actually hearing it from my dad's point of view too. So it's like, wow, you know, it's hard for them and it's so much humility and I can only praise everybody. Andrew too, you know, just growing up, was so confused with how I should be, how I should be should I be you know, how should I go about meeting people and I don't know people's true intentions.
Eric:And I was taught one thing, but then you would hear it differently from another person. And it's confusing growing up, and it's really hard, especially out here in a reservation where it's so everyone's so close to each other. And so I don't know. It's just so much. And for Wayne or George right here next to me and Adam, acceptance and their grieving as well.
Eric:And like I said, their problem was with alcohol abuse and everything like that and drug abuse. I never I never been through what they went through, but it means a lot to me because it's kinda like they they walked so far ahead of me or took one path just so I don't have to. Like what the others were saying earlier, it just it means a lot. So I'm just grateful for everything, and thank you all again for listening and telling your stories and all that. It takes a lot to come up here and say it.
Eric:And that's I think I'm thankful for it. Thank you.
Wayne:Me, I've learned that you're never too old to change. For my cousin Brian, I'm learning how to be a father. Drew, I'm learning how to be a man. He's way younger than me, but he's still he's he's got it. He knows what he wants to do, how he wants to change, and everything.
Wayne:Eric is teaching me how to be a good brother. Like, I'm the oldest, though. Oldest son, the oldest cousin. I was always told I have to take care of them, watch them. It's kinda hard doing that.
Wayne:I never really had a childhood myself. So but being in this class, I learned that it's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to let people know how you feel because, like Eric said, you're truly not alone. There's somebody that's gonna relate to you, and you're gonna relate to them. I'm kinda glad that other natives bringing this class to us because I don't think if it if it was brought by somebody, like white person, black person, or somebody, I really wouldn't have got it.
Wayne:I just they don't know what they're talking about. They're not from around here. So I thank you guys for that.
Su:k:Yeah. I want to say, because I know I've talked about my grief too and losing my son. And I think a lot of us on the reservation, probably every one of us is grieving somebody. Sometimes it's multiple people we lose, you know, within a year or less. And I think that's one thing, you know, as sad as it is, I felt like was something we can all relate to, like you said.
Su:k:And I'm glad that you guys all got to meet each other. Know, I didn't know if you guys even knew each other before this class, but it sounded like some of you didn't. But I'm grateful for you guys giving advice to each other and hearing about the stories, you guys telling other people, looking out for them when they come in. I've heard Drew and Brian say how they spoke to other people that come in, younger people, you know, and trying to give them advice and, you know, hoping that they don't come back. So I just wanted to also ask, you know, what is something that you would like to say to everybody out there?
Su:k:Because I know that there's going to be a lot of people hear this. But like I said before, you all have a message, you all have something you can share too. And so what would you like to say?
Wayne:Well, I like to tell people that feel lost or forgotten, and they're not alone because I was like that growing up. If you know me, you know all the bad shit I've done. I've actually learned how to change, and it's hard to forgive yourself. But once you do, it's it's a lot better. You don't always gotta care what other people think because what really matters is what you think, and that's about it.
Adam:I'll go next. Let's see. I like to talk, so I have one, but I'm not gonna ramble on. Same thing. You know, I did wanna write something in the lungs of because one of our topics was acceptance.
Adam:And I don't know. Just like acceptance is hard. You know? It is. Because I'm, like, 38 years old, and I'm still trying to accept who I am.
Adam:I think it's important for people to find their own identity, you know, and to embrace it. And to, like, George said, Wayne said, you know, try not to care too much what other people think. You know, really the youth. I have a lot. Like, my brothers, the youth.
Adam:That's what it is. It's like my nephews, you know, Davis, Ezekiel, Steve. I need they're just I just wanna, like, keep reiterating to them, like, don't do drugs and alcohol. And I know my old sponsor, Brady, told me, like, no. Don't do that.
Adam:Don't tell them not to do it because they're gonna go and do it. And I'm like but still, you know, like, I don't know. I just I don't I just don't want that for them. It's it's bad. Like, it really is because, like, because I I because I had jacked up a messed up childhood.
Adam:You know? Like, I went to jail at the age of 11 for breaking into helping hands. You know? Me and my school my friends from school, two of them, and we were only 11 years old, and we're in the old jail. And that's, like, where my coming to jail started was at 11 years old.
Adam:Where was my mom? She was she was partying. You know? And, so shout out to my mom too. She's sober over twenty nine years, and I'm really, like, jealous not jealous, but, like, it's a she was able to stop cold turkey, you know?
Adam:She says it was God, you know? But me, man, I can't I can't stop. I just don't know how to. But, like, I don't want none of my nieces and nephews to go down the same road I went down because it's been it's been hard. It's It's been hard.
Adam:However, like, I have some affirmations written down in them. One thing that this class did, like, I think it did not only for me, but for others too, like, it it helped their confidence grow because we all stepped outside our comfort zone, you know, in sharing. And as far as for men, it is hard, you know, like, it's hard to share. Not for me. I mean, I'm pretty open book, you know.
Adam:Now I'll share anything about myself, but, like, and, sometimes that's bad. Just like, you know, like, we're growing. We're all growing. It's a healing that we, you know, we all don't really need to be here. We could be doing better for ourselves.
Adam:I commend Brian, you know, for going to school, you know, and Andrew, you know, he's young, but and that's why, like so my my reading, I wrote, like, if it you know, and I'm not I don't want it to, like we said before, fall on deaf ears. But, like, if just one person out there would just hear something I said, like, even if it's the wear your seat belt part. And also too, like, I need to give a shout out to Mark Case, our, peer support, because he's the one that told me that, Adam, always be first. Always be first to say sorry. Always, smile at somebody, you know, always, you know, wear your seat belt.
Adam:And he told me about, you know, in a car accident when he was younger. But I'm being for real, if if my what I had to say, because I said it from my heart, you know, is like, don't ever do drugs, Eric. Don't ever do meth. Don't ever do pills, every anything, you know, and and like, Andrew, like, like George said, it's never too it's never too late to change. I'm 38 and you're young.
Adam:So do your time and get out and move forward, you know, put your best foot forward, you know, you, you're a high school graduate, you know, go back to school. I know you started that, but you know, yeah. So, like, I think, yeah, one of the things that our confidence grew a little bit, you know, but acceptance, just accept who you are. And I've learned a lot of things from the AA program, you know? And that's the whole, like, acceptance.
Adam:Accept life, like, on life's terms. It's hard, you know? Like, there's a Hidden Valley salting cracker box that I made a trash can out of. They used they the cops took it last night, and I was so mad about it this morning. You know?
Adam:I was like, I had to pray three times today for acceptance. Just accept they took it. You know? The graveyard chef took it. You know?
Adam:So now I have to walk all the way to the east side of the pod, throw my trash away, but still, you know, acceptance. Like, why be mad over that? Why treat the cops bad? You know? Because they took my trash can from my table.
Adam:It's not my table. It's the table. But I'm just saying, though, like, I don't know. I know it's silly, hon. I need a lot of help.
Adam:No. But, no, my message to everybody is, like, man, love yourself. Love each other. You know? I believe that's one of the golden rules or the golden rule in the Bible.
Adam:You know? I'm spiritual as far as, like, I believe in God, a higher power, but, you know, the bible has a lot of good teachings. And one of his treat others as you wanna be treated. You know? Reap what you sow.
Adam:You know? It's cool. But, yeah, I wanna keep rambling on. Take it away, Eric.
Eric:What I want people to take from my my little babbling too, it's it's really hard to talk about it, but I had the realization that, you know, be easy on yourself, you know, like what everyone was saying, you know, it's being following the AA program as well. I just I got or I tell people what I wish people had told me when I needed them, especially to my little brother. I say, well, he's really my baby brother. All my siblings are my babies, so but they're all, like, 18 and old, but I still call them my baby siblings. But, yeah, my baby Ro, he's all still going through stuff, but I just want him to know that I love him and, you know, take it easy on yourself or not perfect.
Eric:And like I said, you know, I just just wish I heard what I wanted to hear because I didn't really have no one to talk to and alcohol took my mother away from me. It's still hard.
Su:k:I appreciate you guys' because I know that it is hard, especially for men to talk about, you know, your feelings or to even get emotional in front of each other, you know, but I'm grateful to see how supportive you guys are for each other, you know, it's something that we kind of grew up with, guess, as natives, even, even myself, you know, I had a tough dad and he was like one of those ones that doesn't want you to cry. You have to be tough, you know, man up, but I'm a woman, but still, you know, as a mom who lost somebody to suicide, I felt like it was important to work with the men first. So I started with you guys and, you know, you took the courage, you had the courage to come and take the class and that took a lot, you know, because, you know, like you said, stepping out of your comfort zone, I've always had a problem with that myself. And here we are, you know, and who knows where this is going to take you in life or what you guys are going to do in the future, but I look forward to reading more if you guys start writing.
Su:k:Hope is that that's I guess that would be my question is, do you plan on continuing with the writing and your artwork and, you know, where would you go with your writing from here?
Adam:I'll go first. Let's see. I like to write. I really do. I have kept a journal in the past because it you know, it was I I was told by my sponsor, Brie, to do it.
Adam:But as far I'm a good writer too. Like, you know, I've taken the courses through Rio Salado, so I know I'm a good writer. But I don't know. It's it's hard to try to get some of that stuff out, like, on paper because then it's, like, it makes you think. But but I also like, something else I took keep on jumping back to the first question.
Adam:But, no, something I took from the classes, like, Sue told us in the first class when she gave us writing prompts, like, there's no right or wrong way to write. Always, you know, try to title your stuff and date it so you can go back and read it and reflect on it. And, so, you know, I just I know I I'm gonna try to get into yeah. I'm gonna try to, like, make it a a to try to at least write some more, you know, write some more. Some more meaningful stuff anyway.
Adam:There's this
Adam:one saying, like, as Bill or Bill W, the co founder AA said, like, writing, like, a heated pieces letter can be, like, the best, like, advice as far as, like, getting it all out, you know, but provided a trash can is nearby. And, yeah, like, I think instead of taking out a lot of my frustrations or whatever it is I'm going through on others, get it out on paper. You know? And if I don't wanna be reminded of it, then maybe, yeah, throw it away. Or, yeah, keep it in the journal.
Adam:But yeah. So, yeah, I wanna keep writing. Writing is a good outlet. I'll pass.
Eric:Yeah. I plan on writing more. It really helped. Like I said before, I just, it really helped me overcome a lot of things. And so I I really I plan to keep going.
Eric:And what I want to close out with was just, like I said, be be good to yourself and even to your parents as well because every parent this is their first time being a parent, so take it easy on them too. And, you know, say what you need to say. And you do it out of love and they do things out of love for you too. So just remind yourself that it's everybody's first time for everything. Everybody does things because they love you.
Eric:So don't take it like they're putting you down most of the time. I found out that all my family I felt like they were coming after me over everything, but it was really just they were looking out for me. Take that to heart, you know, better later to find out what they meant rather than not really thinking about it at all. So so he said, love everybody. Love yourself the most.
Eric:And it's okay.
Wayne:Yeah. I'm gonna keep writing. I'm gonna try to learn how to write happy stuff if I'm having a good day. It's hard to write that. Like, I don't like getting praised or being in the spotlight.
Wayne:It's hard for that. I'd rather be in the shadows and have somebody else take the credit for it. But, again, yes, thank you for this. Help me a lot too because Eric's, like, usually the only one I can really talk to about stuff like this. So thank you.
Lena:Thank you for listening to this Roundtable discussion with Adam Jackson, Wayne Butler, and Eric Wood. We appreciate their openness and honesty. This is the first of three Roundtables in our miniseries. If you have questions or feedback about this series, we welcome you to reach out and send us an email, lenaslenssrpmic nsn dot gov. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you in episode four.