Your New Home Could Be Rotting?!

Mikki Paradise and Jessica Abreu take a closer look at what can go wrong when building or buying a home, including hidden water damage, structural issues, inspections, warranties, and the importance of doing your homework before choosing a builder.

The episode explores why passing a building inspection does not necessarily mean a home was built correctly, how rushed construction can lead to major problems, and why homeowners need to understand their rights and responsibilities when something goes wrong.

Mikki and Jessica also discuss real cases involving major home builders, construction defects, warranty disputes, and what homeowners can do to better protect themselves.

News sources mentioned:
• FOX 13 Tampa Bay
• Hunterbrook Media and its investigation, The House From Hell

00:00 What Chicks In Construction is all about

07:00 The construction story behind today's episode

13:00 Hidden problems behind your home's walls

18:00 Water intrusion and improperly installed windows

20:00 Who is responsible when something goes wrong?

24:00 Private inspectors and potential conflicts of interest

25:00 What a building inspection actually means

31:00 Construction defect deadlines and homeowner rights

34:00 The House From Hell investigation

40:00 Warranties, delays, and forced arbitration

45:00 What homeowners can learn from these cases

47:00 How to protect yourself when choosing a builder

Creators and Guests

Host

Jessica Abreu

As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.

Host

Mikki Paradis

President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.

What is Chicks in Construction?

You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.

From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.

The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.

After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.

Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/

63 - Chicks In Construction
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Mikki: [00:00:00] Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mickey Paradise. This is my illustrious co-host.

Jessica: I am Jessica Abreu.

Mikki: So listen, my new thing is every time we start the podcast, I'm gonna tell you guys what the podcast is about, because we have new subscribers every day.

We get a new subscriber, which I love that for us and for you. But you might not know what the vibe check is here. Mm. So we're gonna do a vibe check moment.

Jessica: All right.

Mikki: Chicks in Construction podcast exists for you, the homeowner, the future homeowner, the maybe sometime before I turn 40, I might buy a house potential homeowner, or just somebody who loves, loves a little bit of gossip, construction edition gossip.

W- that's also a little bit what we got going on. But we want you to have the best experience that you can when you are [00:01:00] renovating your home, or building a home- Mm-hmm ... or remodeling your home, or you're dealing with an electrician, or whatever it is that you're doing. When you have home services, construction home services, we want you to have the best experience you can.

And in order for you to have that best experience, we're gonna learn from other people's mistakes. We're gonna collect th- the, the global collective of construction shenanigans, we're gonna tell you about them, that's what we do at the podcast, so that when you are dealing with your own renovation or your whatever work- Mm-hmm

you're having done at your house, you have a baseline of understanding of what is normal and what's not. You understand, I'm not paying more than a 20% deposit. I'm not paying when work hasn't been completed. I'm not early paying. You, you have all these things. Because what we've found is shady contractors, they're good at being shady, so they're really good at spinning a little story- Mm

and get a real sad [00:02:00] story about how somebody didn't pay them, and now they can't pay their g- their pay their guys, and their guys can't pay, feed their kids and everybody's gonna... It's gonna be very dramatic. That's not your problem, and we're here to help you navigate these construction experiences. And we do that by other people writing in to chicksinconstruction.com and sharing their stories with us.

We then take that delightful story, Jess will absolutely change your name, because I think honestly, at this point, she just gets joy out of it.

Jessica: I do.

Mikki: And then we read the story to the collective community. So we have about 65,000 subscribers at this point, so there's 65,000 people that then are served this content up.

And the idea is they will learn from these mistakes, because learning the hard way is overrated. Is overrated. And we don't want that to happen to you. So welcome. Now you know what the podcast is about. We first start out with a little bit of chicky chat. Um- Do you, the [00:03:00] kids just went back to school, right?

Jessica: Well, the little one did.

Mikki: Oh, 'cause Cora

Jessica: was already, she's year round? She was already... She's a modified schedule. I don't even know. It's, she started school in July.

Mikki: Oh, wow.

Jessica: And she'll be off for two weeks at the end of September.

Mikki: Oh.

Jessica: But the little one just started on-

Mikki: God, that's so disruptive ... Monday.

Jessica: And then she'll be in school while the older one is out.

They will not be out of school together except for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and then for a little bit in the summer.

Mikki: Wow.

Jessica: The rest of the time it's-

Mikki: And you don't have any choice over that? Like, that's just, it is just is what it is, like you're just stuck with it? I...

Jessica: Well, I, I did have a choice. I could have sent Cora to our just regular- Yeah

middle school right down the street, but, um, we did a magnet school.

Mikki: Okay. All right. Um. Okay, so it's not you had a choice. You chose this life.

Jessica: I chose, I chose this life. Um, and my husband doesn't understand why I chose this [00:04:00] life, but I actually don't mind it. Yeah. It, he works from home every day.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: Every day.

Mikki: You need to get out of that house.

Jessica: I just needed to... I actually don't mind just sitting in coffee shops or the library- Yeah ... or I found some new

Mikki: ones. My sister has PTSD over, over, over the, the pickup and drop-off line. I've never experienced it because I'm clearly not a good sister or a good aunt 'cause I've never picked my kids, my s- nieces up from school.

Um. I d- I don't think she'll ever be the same.

Jessica: Yeah, so I don't do the carpool line- Oh ... for either of them.

Mikki: Okay.

Jessica: So I am-

Mikki: Jess has a workaround ...

Jessica: I am fortunate that because the middle schooler, they just let them

Mikki: disperse.

Jessica: Willy-nilly.

Mikki: Just

Jessica: do, do whatever. Um, they do have a carpool line, and I have seen it.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: And the, the school's- It's traumatic ... in the middle of the city.

Mikki: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jessica: There is construction all over the city right now. Oh, my God. It is a nightmare.

Mikki: Yeah. Facts.

Jessica: Um, so the line is [00:05:00] three blocks or more long. Y'all. Me- I, I see it. I'm sitting in the car waiting for my child to just come to me- Yes

'cause she's in middle school. I don't

Mikki: understand. Just summon the child. And, like, you have eye contact with the kid. Like, you can see the kid. It's not like you're not, like, you don't know where she is, and she just shows up- Yeah ... at the car. You can see her leave school. I

Jessica: can see her leave school. And then at the, um, elementary school, I also make the little one be an independent walker.

And they're like, "But she liv- you live not here." And I was like, "Yeah, but she can independently walk out of the school- From my

Mikki: car ...

Jessica: to me." She can independently do that. She's, she's plenty capable.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: She's fine.

Mikki: Also, she's a savage, too.

Jessica: Like- And, yeah, no one's gonna- ...

Mikki: mess with that kid. Mm-mm. You gon- you gon catch, you gon catch those hands.

Jessica: Yeah. Like, facts. So, yeah, no, I don't do... I, I refuse to do- Yeah ... carpool.

Mikki: My, uh, we have two schools on our, like, the s- the main street out, out from our house. Oh. Yes. Yep. So there's a private school, and there's, like, a public school. They get out the same time.

Jessica: Oh, that's convenient.

Mikki: So the, the, the way that these parents will block the- [00:06:00] Mm-hmm

the entire... They're like, "We don't... Oh, you have somewhere to be? Well, I don't care." Mm-hmm. "'Cause I'm in this carpool pickup line, and I'm gon' block the whole street. What are you gonna do, fight me?" And I'm like, "Yes. Yes, Carol, I will fight you." "I will get, I will get out of my car, and you'll catch these hands."

Now, listen, I've never hit anybody, but I do think about it a lot. Hm. And I probably talk about it too much on this podcast, but I don't care.

Jessica: And here

Mikki: we are. This will one day be used against me in a court of law, and that's fine. It's fine. It is what it is. The ship has sailed.

Jessica: Hm.

Mikki: Um, so today's story, we, the, lately we've been sourcing a lot.

There's, there's been some real juice in the construction community. A lot of people, l- a lot of happenings are happening. Hm. Um, last episode we did, that was a story where the person had been convicted, so, like, it wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, we don't know what happened. We knew exactly- Some justice was served

what happened. I mean, I, I would say I, I feel like you [00:07:00] stole $8.7 million, you should probably be in jail for more than five years. But

Jessica: again- We'll start there. It's better than nothing ...

Mikki: it is better than nothing. So I will say that. Hm. But, um, this case is not necessarily a, um- a lawsuit type of case where we have, like, court documents.

It is a case that we're kind of... It's two stories. We're kind of mel- me- meshing them together. But we, I wanna be really clear that we, everything that we're talking about is documented in, um, news sources. So we're, Fox 13 is one of the news sources that we're using to report this. Um, and there's a couple, and we'll kind of mention them as we go through.

But I just, you know, the lawyers are like, "Don't get sued. Don't say that." So we do need to preface that th- this is kind of an ongoing situation, and we are just reporting the facts that have already been reported. [00:08:00] So don't come for us.

Jessica: And we're gonna teach you a lesson-

Mikki: Yeah ...

Jessica: with the facts.

Mikki: We're gonna, it's a little construc- it's a construction tea moment.

Here we are. So we're gonna start this by, like, I'm gonna explain to you guys, like, what I actually do because in this story, um, it kind of, it kind of tracks. And, and I've been thinking about this, like, ever since I read about it, and I'm like, "Hmm, we're gonna talk about this." So I, my company, and to be clear, for all of, all of you guys named Jeff who are like, "She doesn't do drywall.

Look at her," first of all, you see these hands? Not only are you gonna catch these hands, but these are large hands. These are working hands. I got calluses. Fight me. Um, but also I'm, I am extremely sleep- sleep deprived, so we're just working with the best we can. But I started my career hanging and finishing drywall, so it's not like I just started a drywall company and then I always used other people.

Like, yes, I can [00:09:00] fix the hole in your drywall. Will I? Maybe. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll do it myself, maybe I'll send somebody. I have options. But I have st- I started my career hanging and finishing drywall. Um, we also do paint, which means that almost every job that I've been on, my crew or myself, we're the last people that s- get to see inside the walls, which a lot of times is, like, kind of the fun part about drywall, which I'm not gonna lie, sometimes it's hard to find a fun part in drywall.

It's not the most glorious or glamorous part of construction. Yeah. And we certainly don't get paid the most. That was my choice by not starting an HVAC company. Mistakes were made. But here we are. But it's kinda cool 'cause you'll walk into a house and you're like, you just see framing and plumbing and, you know, like, you see all the insides of everything, and you're just like, "I, is this a house?

What is this?" But then when the drywall goes up, it, like, defines the room. Mm-hmm. So you're like, "Oh, there's a bedroom. There's the bathroom. There's the kitchen." So-

Jessica: Like, oh, that's really small. Oh. [00:10:00]

Mikki: Facts. You're like, "It looked bigger without the drywall." And I'm like, "That's what she said." Again, I'm sorry.

That's what I was going to. I'm, yeah, that's, Jess is really normally the that's what she said. She's good with those. Mm, mm. So it's- It, it, we're the last people that kinda see everything that goes in. Um, we are the trade, we are, very delightfully, the trade that covers everything up. Mm. Um, so everything that anybody is ever going to argue about later on, the framing, the flashing, the wiring, the insulation, the water barrier, all of that is visible right up until my guys show up.

And then, you know, it, we, we smooth it all out. We p- we hang the drywall, we finish it, we make it one cohesive wall where you don't even know that that's multiple sheets of drywall because we're so good. And then nobody will ever see inside those walls again until, I guess, somebody has to tear it open.

Jessica: So what if something's wrong?

Mikki: Yeah. So if something [00:11:00] is wrong behind there, the clock starts. And in a development in South Tampa, that clock ran for about five years quietly until somebody figured out that the buildings weren't safe to be in anymore.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: Dun-dun-dun-dun. So, dun-dun-dun, here is our disclaimer. Disclaimer, nobody in today's episode has been accused of stealing anything.

Nobody has been charged with a crime. Everyone that we're gonna talk about in today's episode, um, have fully intended to build a good building. And so, because there's a difference, right? Between something has gone wrong and somebody did something wrong intentionally. And I think that's important to note.

Like, not every single thing that happens in life is like, "Oh, I meant to do that." Mistakes happen, and I think especially in the, we're gonna tell you a little story about rotting framing, I think in this case, I don't think it was [00:12:00] malicious. I think it was just somebody missed a step, and that caused a lot of problems.

Jessica: And the houses still failed.

Mikki: So yes, the houses did still fail, which honestly scares me more because you can spot a thief , uh, if you know what you're looking for. But one, but this one, you can't see at all. Like, it's literally behind the drywall.

Jessica: Hmm. So important housekeeping before we start.

Everything in this episode comes from published investigating reporting.

Mikki: Okay.

Jessica: Nobody we name has been convicted of anything. No court has found anybody liable.

Mikki: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And where companies have responded, we're going to tell you what they said.

Mikki: That's right, and we're gonna be really disciplined about that today, as disciplined as I possibly can be.

Jessica: On one hour

Mikki: of sleep. I am so tired.

so South Tampa, a developer called Edge Townhomes, it was nine units. They built them in 2019 by a company called, um, what is it? Ferncliff. [00:13:00] Ferncliff Incorporated. So Fox Thir- Fox 13's investigative team in Tampa Bay reported the story.

Jessica: Okay, so 2019, so these are not old buildings.

Mikki: No, they're not old. They're not historic. Nobody's, you know, 1940s bungalow. Uh, these are units that were brand-new within the last several years, and according to Fox 13's reporting, water was getting in around the windows.

Jessica: Around the windows, not coming from the roof.

Mikki: Yes, so not the roof, which is, people are like, "What?

I have to worry about my windows now?" Yes. Unfortunately, yes. Um, and I wanna say right here for a minute, or stay right here for a minute, because this is, you know, kinda my world, where I think it's most useful t- the most useful thing I give, give you is a little perspective. So the wall assemblies are really important, especially 'cause a townhome is considered a multifamily structure.

So because they share a wall, it is not a single-family home. And when [00:14:00] you get into multifamily structures, you get into, like, a, it's just a different kinda construction. There's different codes. There's different requirements. There's, like, fire ratings and things like that. So, n- you know, this is kinda, like, where I shine.

So-

One of the things that's really important to note about, um, your exterior walls is that they're actually not designed to keep water out.

Jessica: Okay. Well, that can't possibly be right.

Mikki: I know. It, it doesn't seem right, but it is. So it sounds insane, which it is, um, but every builder that's listening is nodding their head. Um, a modern exterior wall is designed to let a little bit of, not like let a little bit of water in, but it's designed to anticipate that a little bit of water is gonna get past the siding.

Okay. It's gonna get past. That's why we wrap the house in housewrap. So essentially, housewrap exists to, when something fails or when, like, th- [00:15:00] you're getting bombarded with water and a little bit of wa- water is gonna get behind the caulking or whatever, that housewrap is gonna catch the water, and it's supposed to force the water through these holes that, they're weep holes.

There's all kinds of things in construction that's, that helps w- move water. Mm-hmm. And so an exterior wall isn't designed so that no water ever gets through. It's designed with, like, fail-safes- Okay ... that will help move water through if it does get through.

Jessica: Okay. So where does that go wrong?

Mikki: So it's the holes.

So every window and door, um, has little ho- these holes cut into the system that works, like, continuously. So they kinda work together. They, I think, think they're called weep holes. I don't, um, quote me, but don't quote me. But they, they, they move, they have a path, so it takes the, the water follows the path, and it moves the holes out of- Mm-hmm

the [00:16:00] building. So, um, if, if those don't... Like, I've seen so many times, like, a, a mason-

Jessica: Mm-hmm ...

Mikki: will block a weep hole. Like, they'll- Hmm ... fill the weep hole in with the, the mortar from the bricks, or the painter will caulk the weep hole because they're like, "Oh, this hole, we can't have that." So people are, like, trying to do the right thing, 'cause they think, oh, a hole is bad.

Water's gonna get in- Right ... or pests could get in. So it happens a lot of times, just, like, a, a little bit of ignorance and, and good intention- Right ... where people are like, "Oh, I don't wanna leave this hole. Let me caulk it," but that's actually how the water gets out. Hmm. And that's kind of how things can go sideways real fast.

Jessica: Oh, boy. So there's a specific order that things have to be- Yeah ... done in.

Mikki: Yes. So shingles, you can, think of, like, how a shingle is stacked. Mm-hmm. Like, you put in the, and then you put one on top, and you put one on top, and then you cap it. So if you kind of think about it in that order, it's the same for your siding.

So, like, you've got your plywood. You put your housewrap. Mm-hmm. You put your siding on [00:17:00] top of that, and then your windows have weep holes. And everything kind of flows outward.

Jessica: Got it

Mikki: So that's the order.

Jessica: So you can't tell from the outside if there's something wrong.

Mikki: Nope, you can't. And, and unfortunately, in this case, according to Fox 13, the water intrusin- intrusion caused advanced decay in the- Mm

wood framing, and the dec- the decay had gotten into the load-bearing supports. Um, their reporting described it as compromising the structure of the point, to the point of collapse risk.

Jessica: Ooh- Yeah ... boy, that's not good at all. Yeah. So load-bearing. So we're not talking about, like, a stain on the ceiling.

Mikki: Yeah.

Like, load-bearing is the most important structural p- components to your home. So we're talking about the wood that holds the building up, um, and that is a five-year-old building. So honestly, I have a home that was built before the 1900s. Mm-hmm. And it is so structurally sound.

Jessica: [00:18:00] Mm-hmm.

Mikki: So to think that just a five-year-old building is now, a structurally unsound to the point of collapse, it's kind of wild.

Jessica: Yeah. So what did the builder say?

Mikki: So Fox 13 reported that the owner of Ferncliff, Cliff Fernandez, said they were unaware of the issue until recently. Um, and I wanna say something that's going to sound kinda strange coming from me.

Jessica: All right, go ahead. I'm here for it.

Mikki: I do believe that's possible. Hmm. Um, like, genuinely because if it, if there was a flashing that was installed wrong in 2019, there's no moment in which anybody would have found out.

Hmm. So, like, in North Carolina, they are required to do a flashing inspection. So around your windows, they have to put, like, a material that's called, that's called flashing, but it's a lot of times, like, a rubber kinda tape-looking thing.

Jessica: Okay.

Mikki: And it has to be installed in a very specific way, and that has to get an inspection, because water intrusion is such a [00:19:00] big issue- Mm

that, like, insurance companies lobbied to have that inspected, 'cause so they didn't have to keep paying out payouts. So it, it can really happen where just it wasn't done right or it, like, the inspector missed something that wasn't done properly, and you wouldn't know right away. Hmm. It would... And because it's covered up behind the drywall- Yeah

you're not gonna see it until, like, something- Something's wrong ... has gone horribly

Jessica: wrong. Something's gone catastrophically wrong. Yeah. So that's what get me. Everybody could have done- The right thing- Yeah ... and everybody could hear- Yeah ... but he could be telling the truth, but the building is still

Mikki: rotting.

Is still rotting. Yeah, exactly. And what, which is why, like, the question in this episode is not, like, who's the bad guy? The question is, uh, whose job is it to look?

Jessica: Mm.

Mikki: That's the really important part.

Jessica: So whose job was it?

Mikki: So in theory, there's three sets of eyes. Um, the subcontractor who installs it, the superintendent who supervises it, and the [00:20:00] building inspector who signs off on it.

Hm. Fox 13's reporting suggests that all three of those layers, um, kind of have gotten thinner over the years. Mm.

Jessica: So did they have to talk to an engineer?

Mikki: They did. A structural engineer named Tom Miller, um, and he said something that I've kind of just been chewing on over ever since. Um, the contractors, the contractors often, quote, "don't have intimate knowledge of the code" and that they are of- they often rely on unlicensed subcontractors without proper oversight.

This is, like, one of the most important things that we've talked about- Mm-hmm ... the importance of having experience, knowing the codes, general contractors being licensed- Mm-hmm ... and having experience. It's not just getting the license, it's also having experience.

Jessica: Yeah.

Mikki: A general contractor who has experience is gonna be able to look at that window and go like, "Something, something ain't right there."

Mm-hmm. They're gonna look at the flashing and be like, oh. Or [00:21:00] but if you don't have experience- Yeah ... as a general contractor, and you hire a, a window installer that doesn't know any better, doesn't put the flashing in, just slaps those windows in, and you don't have any other knowledge, nobody's catching it.

Right. I mean, the, it, it can't just be on the inspector to catch every single thing that goes wrong, because you the general contractor don't have any experience. Mm-hmm. It's a collective thing.

Jessica: Mm. So now they said, um, unlicensed subcontractor, and you're a subcontractor. How did that feel?

Mikki: So it stings a little bit, um, but it's fair.

it, it kinda always, it falls on who installs it- Mm-hmm ... and, and that's just hair, in, fair. In this industry, um, we, we have been short on skilled labor for, like, at least 15 years. Mm-hmm. And so when you're short on skilled labor, you kinda go down the labor train.

The GC hires a sub, that sub hires a crew, and sometimes that crew hires a crew, which I actually see a lot in the commercial division. So, like- A crew

Jessica: hires a crew?

Mikki: Oh, yeah. I will [00:22:00] be working with... Now, I'm the owner of the company and I'll, I'm on the job site, and that's kinda what makes us a little bit different, is like you're dealing directly with somebody who has a lot of skin in the game.

But, uh, most general c- most subcontractors They're, they're thrice removed from the people who are actually on the job. Like, they don't even know these people's names. They have no ... The people who are actually installing this work have no, like, real legal res- responsibilities. Like, they're just, they're subbing it out, and then the sub can sub it out.

So you're th- so far removed from the actual owner of the company. Oh

Jessica: my God.

Mikki: It is actually wild.

Jessica: So who's, who's checking on them?

Mikki: That's the piece that really matters. So in this situation, the flashing detail is not hard. It's not a skill problem. Sorry. It's a knowledge problem. Um, and it takes about 10 minutes to teach, but nobody's teaching it.

Mm. Because the guy who should be teaching it is running four jobs, and [00:23:00] he's going and checking behind all of them. So it's really, like, a systematic failure of we're so short on labor, we're just throwing people on job sites, and then the owners of those companies aren't supervising those people to make sure that their work is actually being done- Mm-hmm

correctly, which is my biggest pet peeve of, like, I, I don't consider anybody my competition, 'cause nobody does what I do the way I do it, but we see this all the time.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: Drywall has to be installed in a very specific way in order it, for it to meet the code requirements. Yeah. They'll th- throw up people on that job who they just throw the drywall wherever.

It's not installed the way it needs to be. It's a major problem, and it- Mm ... happens everywhere.

Jessica: So what about the third set of eyes? Was that the inspector?

Mikki: So this is where FOX 13's reporting gets really interesting, and it moves up the road to Pasco County. Um, their reporting found that Pasco was allowing builders to use private inspectors.

Jessica: So wait, if a private inspector, that means that the builder is [00:24:00] choosing and paying- Yep ... who's inspecting the house.

Mikki: Yeah. And, okay, so, uh, this has happened. I've, we've had situations where, like, you can, even the state of North Carolina, you can have an engineer- Mm-hmm ... come out and, and just inspect your work.

Like, so we've had some inspectors that were just like, "Sir, what is your life? Like, how do you have this much time to be this nasty?" Like, just making stuff up, and ma- like, going out of their way to- Mm ... make people's lives ridiculous. And eventually a general contractor will just be over it, and they'll bring in an, an engineer to just

'Cause an engineer has way more education and knowledge than- Than an inspector ... an inspector. Mm-hmm. So in that case, and an engineer is licensed, and there's a licensing board that holds them accountable. Mm. So it's not just, like, willy-nilly. But apparently in Florida you can bring in ... Yeah, I, I don't know what the requirements are, but-

Jessica: I mean, that, that partic- particular county was like-

Mikki: Yeah

Jessica: "This is fine."

Mikki: Yeah, they're like, "It's fine." And so- This is a structure. Uh, and what I wanna be careful is [00:25:00] private inspectors is legal in a lot of places, and there are excellent ethical private inspectors doing that work, uh, with real integrity. But it's obvious, uh, you know, a, a, it's an obvious pressure point, and Fox 13's reporting described it as an oversight gap.

Jessica: Yeah. So can I push on the inspector thing for a second? Yeah. Because I think most homeowners believe a building inspector is checking the house. Like, if they say they're checking it, that they're really going through, like, with a fine-tooth comb.

Mikki: Yeah, and that's a really common misunderstanding, um, in residential construction, so I'm glad you b- brought that up.

Um, a code inspection is a spot check. It's not a quality inspection, and it was never designed to be one.

Jessica: What's the difference?

Mikki: So an inspector shows up with a list of code items and, uh, a very limited amount of time. So, like, even on our, you know, 300-unit multifamily projects, they're, they have an hour.

Okay. Okay. So they [00:26:00] have a very limited amount of time. Um, so they have a house with hundreds of details in it. Um, he's coming to that house j- just to make sure that it meets the minimum code, and minimum is a real word there. Um, it's not con- like, confirming that it was built well. Mm-hmm. Um, and he is definitely not opening up walls or putting, you know, putting a tape mother to m- measure to check whether, you know, everything was lapped and flashed correctly.

He's just making sure that that item was installed to code.

Jessica: Okay.

Mikki: So in this case, um, it- the windows were not flashed correctly. Um, and it looks like it was, like, 31 windows that, that were not installed correctly. Um-

Jessica: So how much time did he get to go look at all those windows?

Mikki: it, lot of jurisdictions, a residential inspector has a route with a [00:27:00] dozen or more stops in a day.

So if you do that math yourself, um, it's, you know, you're- Not a lot. It's not a lot. Like, it- Not a lot ... it's not a lot of time. I mean, even, just even having the inspector on the-

Jessica: Like, two minutes a window.

Mikki: Pretty much. Like, so it is a very limited amount of time, um, that an inspector has for each, each one of these items.

Um, and I'm not thr- throwing inspectors under the bus. Most of them are super awesome people. They're, you know, carrying an impossible workload w- within a department that's been understaffed since 2008.

Jessica: Okay, so what is passing an inspection?

Mikki: So passing inspection means that nobody caught this is very important, or recorded, 'cause, like the case in North Carolina- Yeah

they knew that Jake Muhlbach's house was not framed correctly, they just didn't record it. Yeah. So passing inspection means that nobody caught anything in the time that they had. That's what it means. It's not a certificate that says that your house is good and it was built correctly. [00:28:00] Um- That's so scary

Edge Townhomes passed inspection, so every house in the Hunter Brook, Brook reporting had passed inspection.

Jessica: That's genuinely-

Mikki: Yeah ...

Jessica: so unsettling.

Mikki: I know, 'cause it's like we put so much pressure and so much kind of

Jessica: weight- It's basically there's no checks and balances- Right ... to make sure anything in your house is okay.

It's- Nothing ...

Mikki: really wild. Like, I honestly didn't- Hope and a prayer ... re- it's really hope and prayer, and I honestly didn't realize, like, how unregulated construction is until I was listening to Dylan White, t- the Dad Chats guy- Mm-hmm ... talk about, compare construction to l- a law degree, so the GC license to the law degree, and, like, all the things and the regulations and the board-certified, all the things that lawyers have to go through, and none of that applies to construction.

And you're building people's homes that they and their children and their family are gonna live in. Mm-hmm. But they're subject to not even a quarter of the things, and in some states, not at [00:29:00] all. In some states, you don't even have to have a GC's license. So-

Jessica: It's so crazy ...

Mikki: is unsettling, and it should be.

It's exactly why, um, this next segment is e- exists. Um, if the public system is a spot check, the only comprehensive inspection your home will ever get is one where you pay yourself.

Jessica: Did anything change?

Mikki: So, um, this is the part that I actually love. After FOX 13's reporting, Pasco County updated its procedures for greater oversight by the building department.

Jessica: Oh, so journalism changed the rule.

Mikki: I mean, it seems like every once in a while. So the journalist did ... I mean, they, they played a part in changing that rule, and in that same county, in a community called Starkey Ranch, which is hilar- a hilarious name to me. Uh, the Whitfield Preserve neighborhood, FOX 13 reported that more than 80 homes needed mold remediation within the months th- [00:30:00] that were, that they were built during COVID.

Jessica: 80 homes in months.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: Not years.

Mikki: Exactly.

Jessica: Great.

Mikki: So months, and when you see 80 homes in one neighborhood with the same problem at the same time- Mm ... you're not looking at, like, a bad crew. You're looking at a bad process running at high speed.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. So the Edge homeowners find out five years in.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: So now what's their options?

Mikki: So fewer than they had in 2019, for sure, and this is the segment where I want, you know, most people to hear what we're saying every state puts a hard time limit on how long after construction you can bring a claim about a deficit or a defect. Um, lawyers call it a statue, a statute response, of response, and the thing that makes it brutal is that in a lot of these states, the clock starts running when the building was finished, not from when you found the [00:31:00] problem.

Jessica: So it can actually expire before you find anything wrong.

Mikki: Exactly. It can expire while you're standing in the house that's rotting, and you have no idea. And in Florida, that window got shorter. So Fox 13 noted that Senate Bill 360 in 20- 2023 cut the period for filing a def- defect claim from 10 years down to seven.

Jessica: Oof, so they cut off three years.

Mikki: Yeah, and so the three years gone, you go back to Edge, um, built in 2019, discovered around five years in.

Jessica: Mm.

Mikki: Um, on the- Old 10-year clock, that's like a comfortable timeframe. On the seven-year clock, that's kind of uncomfortably close to the edge of that timeframe. Hmm.

Jessica: And this is not a Florida problem.

Mikki: Which is shocking, because in my mind, everything starts as a Florida problem. But every state has its own version of this, and the numbers are all different. So here is your kinda [00:32:00] homework, where you wanna take a couple minutes to search your state's, uh, your, you search, search your state's name, plus the statute of response, um, plus cons- construction deficit.

So you would type in, like for instance, North Carolina statute of response construction deficit. So they would, that will give you the number of time that you have, um, from the o- your occupancy date, um, to file a claim that there was something wrong with your house.

Jessica: Yeah, so if I was doing something to my house, I wanna set that calendar alarm- Yeah

for a legal deadline, which is strange thing for a homeowner to have to do, but it's the- It's the move ... it's the right thing to do.

Mikki: Yeah, and it, it's like I feel like so much of like the podcast just creates more tasks for homeowners to do. So many tasks. And I, I do hate that, 'cause like, listen, I'm operating on one hour of sleep.

I can't take on any more tasks. But unfortunately, the way that the laws and the way that things are, are constructed in our country, it [00:33:00] all falls on the homeowner. Like, the, the contractor has so little responsibility, and so it, for you as a homeowner to have any kind of like positive outcome if you do have an issue, you have to be the one who took responsibility and like took, added these tasks to your thing.

Mm-hmm. If you want to avoid having these problems, you kinda have to take these tasks on as like, okay, this is my job now. Hmm. Which is very unfortunate. So, next segment

Jessica: So we've got nine town homes, one builder. Is that bad luck or a bad system?

Mikki: So, I think that's a right question. The last year, um So, and last year, an outlet called Hunter Brook Media published an investigation trying to answer it.

It ran from June of 2025, and they called it The House From Hell.

Jessica: And to be clear, we are just reporting what has already been reported.

Mikki: We're not making any new facts up [00:34:00] here, people. Don't come for us. We're reporting, um, I'm, I, I'll, I'll s- we'll source the, the news reporting down below, um, 'cause in here it doesn't exactly say.

Um, but this is the, the Hunters Brook investigation. It's not ours, and the companies involved dispute how they've been characterized. Everything in the segment is attributed to those news sources.

Jessica: The two largest home builders in the United States, D.R. Horton and Lennar, Hunter Brook reported they spoke with more than 60 homeowners across six- 16

16 states. Yeah. I'm like, six, six-

Mikki: Yeah, it's a lot of sixes ...

Jessica: six. Yeah, that's why their house is from hell. See, that

Mikki: five jumps fast. Satan's involved. So what did these homeowners s- describe? So water intrusion, intrusion, problems with trusses and joints, um, and joists. Sorry, joists. That's, which is structural.

Joists are a structural member. [00:35:00] Um, ventilation failures, inadequate fireproofing and installation, um, foundation cracks, improper grading, plumbing defects, mold, solid, um- Soil ... soil. God, you guys, I'm trying so hard. Soil compaction failures, electrical hazards, and Hunter Brook's reporting, um, many of these were code violations.

Jessica: My gosh. Can you give any specifics on, like, a certain person's, um, issues?

Mikki: So a homeowner named Danielle, um-

Jessica: Antinucci ...

Mikki: Jesus, that's an Italian name if I've ever heard one.

Jessica: I lived in Rhode Island with all the

Mikki: Italians, so. Yeah, you do. You know an Antinucci. Um, in Sarasota, Hunter Brook reported sewage backups that destroyed- Gross

a ceiling, which I'm like, make that make sense.

Jessica: It's on the second floor.

Mikki: It must have been, and that- That's a big backup ... which, which if you ... Ooh. [00:36:00] Ooh. After 21 months, the problems were still unaddressed. Absolutely not. She described it as, quote, "The biggest nightmare of my life."

Jessica: I mean, yes. Good

Mikki: God. A homeowner named Leslie Montgomery, I think I'm saying that right?

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: Close enough. Hunter Brook reported her home was condemned for mold. Mm-mm. And that inspector called it a total loss, meaning it has to be destroyed.

Jessica: I'm so sorry.

Mikki: Seriously, like, that is absolutely insane. Um, Ashley Frazier reported mold with a repair estimate of $467,000.

Jessica: At, I mean, unless her home is over a million dollars- Right

just tear it down and start again. It's a

Mikki: burn down. Oh, my gosh. So Matthew French in Florida said structural, uh, defects documented by engineers and Hunter Brook reported [00:37:00] that w- home, the home was devalued- Hmm ... by $162,942, which is the most specific amount of money I have ever

Jessica: heard. Oh, my gosh. This is people's entire net worth.

Mikki: Right. It's their, it's their entire savings. It's their entire retirement pr- plan. It's everything. Like, so many people do, like, which is crushing about this, 'cause these are two of the biggest home builders in the country. Mm-hmm. So, like, D.R. Horton and Lennar are two of the biggest ... D.R. Horton's a little bit more like custom homes.

Mm-hmm. They have, like, custom home, custom homes divisions, but Lennar is, like, a one of the biggest track home builders. So many people look at a purchase of a home as, like, wealth building. Mm-hmm. So, like, their kinda plan is, "I'm gonna purchase this home. I'm gonna, you know, pay off my mortgage." 100%. "And then I'm gonna be able to sell it for, for-

Jessica: Mm-hmm

Mikki: an increase in, in its value, and I'm gonna retire off that money." So when we say, like, their entire net worth, like, here's the one, here's one that [00:38:00] made me put like, almost die. A homeowner named Julie, you're gonna have to say this one,

Jessica: Biondond- Doleo?

Mikki: Dolello? That name. In a community- I tried ... called Ocean Breeze, Hunter Brook reported the soil under her home was compacted to 95% when the specs required 98%.

And we, in our last episode, we talked about how important soil compaction is. Soil is. Yeah. So that, an improper compaction of your soil can literally mess your foundation up of your house so badly- Mm-hmm ... that it has no value.

Jessica: Yeah, I mean, this sounds, this sounds like nothing. I'm like, "Oh." Right. It's so close in the numbers, but it is very, very important.

Mikki: Yeah, yeah. Soil compaction, um, and how tightly the dirt is packed before anybody, like, even pours the conc- concrete, under-compacted soil settles. When settling ha- settle, when h- soil settles unevenly, your foundation moves. When your foundation moves, you [00:39:00] get cracks in the slab, cracks in the drywall, doors that won't latch, windows that won't close, and there is essentially no good fix because- Mm-hmm

the problem is under the house.

Jessica: So how many homes, like, met those, um, specs?

Mikki: So Hunter Brook reported that out of 143 homes, 14

Jessica: One four?

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: One four- Yeah ... out of 143.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: That's great.

Mikki: I know. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's not the most amount. It's not, it's not the b- it's not the best- It's like

Jessica: 10%.

Mikki: It, yeah, it's, it's a pretty high number.

So that's- No, it is not ... the reported number. Um Well, I mean, it is, it's a high number in the sense of, like, f- a failure. You know, like-

Jessica: Oh, a high number of failure.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. It's a high number of- So like a failure of me- methos- by like, oh.

Mikki: Yeah, no, like 10% of, uh, if, if 10% of your, of the homes that you built failed, like, you have a problems.

But that, the thing is that's the reported number.

Jessica: Mm.

Mikki: And you can't see, you [00:40:00] know, the, the per- percentage point of soil compaction. So there's no walkthrough of, you know, on, of, of earth- ... where you'll catch that. Mm-hmm. It happens before the concrete, so after that it's just, like, nice house on a quiet street.

Jessica: So then what happens now? Is there, like, a warranty that they can get this fixed with?

Mikki: So in these cases, there are, there is a warranty, and Hunter Brooke described a three-step pattern in how those warranty claims played out. Step one was they ru- they would rush to close, like a high-pressure sales tactic- Mm

um, with limited inspection access and rushed walkthroughs.

Jessica: Okay.

Mikki: So their step two... Oh, sorry.

Jessica: Yeah. Go ahead. Step

Mikki: two? Step two was they called, um, they called it filibustering, the warranty request. Mm. So, Denials, um, defections, delays until the warranty period runs out.

Mm. So, like, them just being like, "Oh, yeah, we'll get you [00:41:00] scheduled. We'll get you scheduled," and then finally when they have time to schedule you, your warranty period is over. Mm,

Jessica: and then step three.

Mikki: Step three is the one that matters the most and is the one nobody really reads. So forced arbitration. So Hunter Brooke reported that both builders' contracts pushed disputes into private arbitration instead of court, which means no class action and confidential outcomes.

Jessica: So explain confidential, because I think that's the load-bearing word.

Mikki: Right. It is. Good, good, good structural use. So confidential means the next family looking at the same community can't find out what's happening to the last family. Sneaky, sneaky, sneaky. Right. So, like, every- it's like signing an NDA.

Mm-hmm. Like, you're just, you're agreeing that you're not gonna have anything in the public record. So, like, all, all the things that we're always telling our people is, like, "Hey, make sure, check, check to see if they have any judgments against them." Mm. This is how these big builders have figured out how to get around that.

So they [00:42:00] make it so you can't sue them, so there can't be a public judgment. It's really quite evil.

Jessica: Mm-mm.

Mikki: Um, so Hunter Brooke reported that one homeowner in Hawaii, um, Christie V- Volkmer- Describing black slime-

Jessica: Ew ...

Mikki: in the water lines- Ew ... affecting about half of 144 homes in the community. And she'd been, uh, struck with an ar- stuck in arbitration for years.

Jessica: Ew.

Mikki: Yeah. So the number that I can't stop thinking about is $2,348.

Jessica: What is that?

Mikki: So Hunter Brook reported that that's roughly what D.R. Horton reserved per home for repairs. For Lennar, that figure, they reported, was about, uh, $3,600. And Hunter Brook puts, uh, estimated actual repair cost at 5 to [00:43:00] $20,000 per home.

Jessica: So the money set aside was a fraction of the cost.

Mikki: That's what the, the reported gap was. And for scale, Hunter Brook reported gross profits per home in 2024 at about 88,000 for, um, D.R. Horton and about 95,000- Ooh ... for Lennar.

Jessica: So you don't have to editorialize on that. You can just say the two numbers next to each other.

Mikki: Right. I mean- I'm gonna let the two numbers sit next to each other, and I'll add one question Hunter Brooke got from Robert Knowles, the president of the National Association of Home Builders or Home Owners, who told them builders get bonuses for speed and volume, not for code compliance.

Jessica: Well, that's the right incentive, right?

Right?

Mikki: Like, let's- Hmm ... let- don't [00:44:00] do it right, do it fast. Mm-hmm. Ooh, God.

Jessica: I mean, that's the way the whole world is. I mean, I don't want the person building my car-

Mikki: Right ...

Jessica: my home, um, I don't want my doctors having to go super fast. Yeah. It's just like everything- Yeah ... is trying to go-

Mikki: Exactly, and it's just like, like- It's awful

I, I've been following this one lady who does a podcast about business, and she always says fast is sl- sl- fast is slow. She basically, like, talks about the importance of just slowing down-

Jessica: Mm-hmm ...

Mikki: and how y- the mistakes that are made when you're moving so fast aren't worth- Yeah ... the cost to fix them.

Unfortunately-

Jessica: I would say slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Mikki: Oh, that's good. I like that. That's a good one. Unfortunately, these builders have figured out, oh, we'll just set some money aside, and then we'll, we'll force everybody into this arbitration so that nobody will know that this is happening. Mm-hmm. And next thing you know, you're here.

So I wanna say one thing, you know, 'cause lawyers, um, we wanna be really clear about saying that we're not saying that anybody is deliberately building bad [00:45:00] houses. I'm saying that if you pay people for speed, you get speed. Quality is the thing you get when someone is paid to slow down and look, and nobody in this chain paid to slow down and look.

Jessica: what can homeowners learn from this?

Mikki: I think the important thing to learn is there's a couple of things, like, 'cause we followed two stories. We followed the, the water intrusion and the window story, which, which obviously wasn't, like, intentional malice.

It wasn't like, "Oh, I'm gonna do a bad job on purpose." But it's that reality that we rely on a lot of people to check things and to make sure that everything is done the way that it's supposed to be done. And when there's a failure in that, it, 9 times out of 10, falls on the homeowner. You know, in the case of the windows, they were outside of the warranty.

They, you know, they were really close to that seven-year deadline in, in the state of Florida, and so it put them in a really bad position to be able to get those costs covered and, and, like, recoup that cost. And the situation with [00:46:00] the, the, the national track builders, it seems like their business model is build as many houses as you can as fast as you can, and we're not paying for it to be done right, we're paying for it to be done fast.

And so- Yeah, we're

Jessica: not qual- we're doing quantity over

Mikki: quality. Right, quantity over quality. And so I think it's, the thing that you as the homeowner can learn is, one, the importance of if you have the capacity and the ability to have a, a independent inspector come out and check out your house, th- there is huge benefit to that.

Mm-hmm. Now, do I think that, uh, somebody buying a townhouse is even thinking that way or should be required to do that? No. Mm. But if you wanted to dot all the I's and cross all the T's, the way to make sure that your, the building inspector did not miss something that was really important is to have an outside inspection.

I don't think that's super realistic, so it kinda feels like just a hope and a prayer. But I think the other piece too is when you really spend the time investigating and researching who is building your home [00:47:00] and making sure that their integrity matches the integrity of the person that you want building the home that you're gonna live in.

Mm-hmm. Understanding that the system is kind of rigged against homeowners, and so your due diligence in selecting who you're gonna purchase a home from- is, like, the most important step. Um, somebody who is gonna own their, they're gonna back their quality, they're gonna own their mistakes. They're gonna say, "Hey, listen, we're gonna take care of this regardless as to, you know, where it falls in the window of- Mm-hmm

of, you know, statute." So taking that time to really make sure that you're finding a builder that is in alignment with your values and, and has a track record of fixing things no matter, no matter what it was. If it was a construction failure, if it, it was a defect, they're gonna take care of it. Those are the builders that you wanna find and you wanna work with.

And a lot of times, those are the smaller builders. Um, but, you know, who am I to tell you what to do with your money? But the, the, these are the things that we can learn from this, [00:48:00] like, understanding that it's kinda stacked against us, so we need to work to protect ourselves- Mm-hmm ... individually.

Jessica: Yes.

Mikki: So if you have had a crazy story like this, where you bought a home and five years later, the structural members of, of your load-bearing walls were rotting out, or something similar.

You had a, a builder that kinda did you dirty and kinda left you hanging, we wanna hear the story. And not 'cause we're, you know, we wanna share it, but because we need to share it. The more people that learn from the things that happened to you, the less people find themselves in this situation. Mm-hmm. It starts you to just think about things differently.

It starts, you start looking at things differently and questioning different things. That puts you in a position where you are less likely to find yourself getting screwed over by a general contractor or a trade person, or whatever it is. Yep. So if you are in that, in that realm and you have a story, we would love for you to share it with us.

You can go to [00:49:00] chicksinconstruction.com. You scroll down, you can fill out the form, and we will read your story to our beautiful audience so that they do not learn the hard way. Jess, where can they find us on the socials?

Jessica: On Facebook, Instagram, and

Mikki: Lik-

Jessica: Linke- LinkedIn LinkedIn. Right

Mikki: on it.

Jessica: It's @chicksinconstructionpodcast, on TikTok, it's @chicksinconstruction.

Mikki: All right, guys. We'll see you there. Please like, please subscribe. Write a nice comment if you're capable of it, and if you're not, then don't write anything at all. All right, we love you, and we'll see you next time. Bye.